This is a Seanad Bill which has been amended by the Dáil. In accordance, therefore, with Standing Order No. 75, it is deemed to have passed its First, Second and Third Stages in the Seanad, and is placed on the Order Paper for Report Stage. On the question that the Bill be received for final consideration the Minister may explain the purport of the amendments made by the Dáil and this is looked upon as the report of the Dáil amendments to the Seanad. The only matters, therefore, that may be discussed are the amendments made by the Dáil. For the convenience of Senators, I have arranged for the printing and circulation to them of a list of the amendments made by the Dáil.
Building Societies Bill, 1975 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report and Final Stages.
Question proposed: "That the Bill be received for final consideration."
A small number of amendments were made to the Bill in the course of its passage through the Dáil. Most of these amendments were, in fact, drafting amendments which did not materially alter the structure or effect of the Bill but introduced improvements of a desirable nature. I think the best thing to do here is to go down through the list of amendments made by the Dáil and I will comment briefly on each item.
The first item on the list refers to section 5, which deals with the making of regulations under the Act. Subsection (4) of the section provided that all regulations made under the Act shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon as they are made and may be annulled by resolution of either House. As it stood, the subsection did not take account of the fact that a draft of any regulation under section 76 must be actually approved by each House before it is made. The effect of the amendment is to eliminate the necessity of laying before each House regulations which have already been approved in draft by each House.
Items Nos. 2, 3, 7 and 10 are similar in that each one places a limit on the time available to the registrar to decide on certain matters. Items Nos. 2, 3 and 10, respectively, place a limit of two months on the registrar in deciding whether to register an alteration of rules under section 12, a change of name under section 13 or whether to confirm, under section 27, a union of two or more societies or a transfer of the engagements of one society to another. Item No. 7 places a six-month limit on the time available to the registrar to consider an application by a society for permission to advertise for funds. A six-month limit was considered appropriate here since the registrar is statutorily bound under section 19 to take into account a large number of factors and, consequently, a shorter limit would be unreasonable. The proposal to place time limits of this nature on the registrar were put forward in the Dáil and I must admit that, in my opinion, they are practical improvements to the Bill.
Senators will remember that the prohibition on persons under the age of 21 to vote or to hold office in a society was questioned here during Committee Stage of the Bill. The matter was raised in the other House and, although I have certain misgivings about adopting a piecemeal approach to this question of amending the age of majority rather than waiting to have it dealt with in a global manner in due course, I accepted the proposition that persons between the ages of 18 and 21 years should not be statutorily precluded from voting in a society. As will be seen in items Nos. 4 and 12, sections 17 and 53 were amended to provide accordingly. Because of the continuing incapacity of a minor to enter into a legal contract or, more correctly, the ability of a person at any time to repudiate a contract to which he became party as a minor, I cannot accept that a person under 21 should be allowed to hold office in a society until such time as the overall question of reducing the age of majority to 18 years is determined.
A new version of section 18 was inserted into the Bill by the Dáil because of some inadequacies of detail which became apparent in the previous draft. In the main, however, the amended version does not differ from the previous draft. The purpose of section 18 is to place restrictions on the commencement of business by a society by prohibiting it from accepting any funds until it has complied with certain requirements. These requirements related mainly to the taking up of shares of a minimum prescribed value by the founder-members. As originally drafted, the section applied to societies established after 5th December, 1975, which was the date of publication of the Bill, and previously established societies which at that date had not commenced to carry on business. It will be noted, however, that the reactivation of an old dormant society which had ceased to function could be used as a device effectively to circumvent these provisions and so the section was amended to meet this point.
Another loophole which became apparent in the previous draft of section 18 was the provision whereby the terms applying to the founder-members' shares could not be more favourable than those applying to any other shares of that class in the society. It could be argued, however, that the founder-members' shares constituted a class of their own and, therefore, this provision would lose its effectiveness. Accordingly the section was amended to provide that the terms applying to founder-members' shares should not be more favourable than the terms applying to any other shares in the society and a clear definition of the meaning of the phrase "terms" was included. The section as it now stands also provides that it is the directors rather than the founders of an existing society, to which section 18 applies, who would be required to subscribe the shares.
A small consequential amendment was made to subsection (10) of section 20 to avoid inconsistencies arising between the phrases used in section 20 and section 18 as amended. This appears as item No. 9 on the list of amendments. All the other amendments appearing on the list—items Nos. 6, 8, 11, 13, 14 and 15—are all drafting amendments designed either to correct errors or to improve the previous text. None of these in any way altered the effect of the provisions in which they occur.
Item No. 6 amends section 19 (5) (b) by ensuring that where an application is made for permission to advertise the registrar will have to be satisfied that the requirements of section 20—the deposit with the Central Bank—and of section 18—founder-member shares— will be complied with. In the Bill as passed by the Seanad, it would be possible for a society to avoid having to comply with the provisions of section 18. This loophole has now been closed.
Item No. 8 is a minor technical amendment to section 20 which does not in any way alter the effect of the original provision. It will ensure that moneys deposited with the Central Bank by the societies will earn a rate of interest not less than that payable on similar deposits by the licensed banks.
Item No. 11 is merely to correct an error in section 38. Subsection (3) of that section provides that the registrar shall fix limits on investments in various types of securities. The word "prescribed" is defined in section 2 (1) as meaning prescribed in regulations, that is in ministerial regulations. The registrar is not empowered to make regulations.
Items Nos. 13, 14 and 15 are again drafting amendments which have been made on the advice of the Attorney General's Office and do not affect the force of the provision.
Question put and agreed to.
Question "That the Bill do now pass" put and agreed to.
I am sorry to say the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs is detained for the moment in the other House. I suggest we adjourn for about a quarter of an hour.
Would 15 minutes be sufficient?
Perhaps 3.15 p.m. would be better.
Would it be possible to move to other business?
The Parliamentary Secretary dealing with the next item is in the same position.
Business suspended at 2.45 p.m. and resumed at 3.30 p.m.