Despite the fact that there are no amendments, I would like to take this opportunity to raise with the Minister the importance of the extension of the regional technical colleges' system. I am taking it that the Bill under this heading allows for that, because if we do not get four new regional technical colleges in the Dublin area shortly, we are going to have a big problem. I would like to clarify with the Minister that the Bill allows him to take in an extension of the regional technical colleges' system.
National Council for Educational Awards Bill, 1978: Committee and Final Stages.
Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."
The actual section where regional technical colleges are mentioned gives the Minister power to extend to any other institution. The building of new RTCs is not really relevant in this section. Subsection 1 (e) covers any existing or any new regional technical college.
The difficulty is that we are all trying to encourage more emphasis on technical aspects. In Bolton Street out of 1,000 applications for engineering this year, 300 qualified people were not able to get places. Therefore, I am keen to see new regional technical colleges being built quickly in Dublin.
Question put and agreed to.
Sections 3 to 8, inclusive, agreed to.
SECTION 9.
Question proposed: "That section 9 stand part of the Bill."
Under the question of the boards of studies, section 9, am I right in saying that the boards of studies are subject to the Minister's approval?
No. The boards of studies are appointed by the council and answerable to them.
Question put and agreed to.
Section 10 agreed to.
SECTION 11.
Question proposed: "That section 11 stand part of the Bill."
I want to make my token comment on the concurrence of the Minister for the Public Service on the appointment of staff. I take it the Minister for Education can do nothing about it. It seems the general policy can be approved by the Department of the Public Service, but if they have to be in on every appointment, it is hard for the unit which is trying to operate independently.
I am not admitting I cannot do anything about it. It is traditional to include the Minister for the Public Service.
Question put and agreed to.
Sections 12 to 15, inclusive, agreed to.
SECTION 16.
Question proposed: "That section 16 stand part of the Bill."
It is on this section that the NCEA are going to receive moneys from the Higher Education Authority. I was a member of the NCEA and chaired it for a while. I am disappointed that funds have to come through the Higher Education Authority. I feel that the regional technical colleges, the National Council for Educational Awards, would never have been set up if we had to wait for the HEA. I am worried about the HEA funding the NCEA.
To the best of my knowledge the council applied for designation as a body which would be funded by An tUdáras um Árd Oideachas.
Question put and agreed to.
Sections 17 to 22, inclusive, agreed to.
First and Second Schedules agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."
I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister for this concept so far. For me it started in 1966, for him it started three years ago. I hope that in interpreting the Bill the great emphasis placed on the quality of work will emanate into other circles of education, particularly university education, and that the Bill will give the Minister some powers in this regard. What I am getting at is that until the National Council for Education Awards examined what a degree was, probably most people had not thought about it, they did not have to think about it. The professor of physics or the professor of engineering professed that subject, but never had to profess the subject of the educational process that encompassed his own subject. The fact that there are now some 500 to 600 academics backing the NCEA is a great opportunity to improve the standard of education, in the sense of the education process, in the Irish scene. This Bill seems to provide the Minister with a chance to encourage that from his own prestigious position.
It also provides, as I see it, an opportunity for the Minister to encourage the flexibility he mentioned in his summing up of the Second Stage debate. The first NCEA produced a diagram which showed how this flexibility could operate in movement from one stream to another. I do not think what we are doing here is giving the blessing to binary education. We are giving a blessing to the introduction of that part of our educational system which the country lacked. The Steering Committee Report written in 1966 said that where you were not able to justify a demand where it should exist, where the need existed, then you have to go ahead and do it. This is now under way and I wish the Minister the best in implementing it.
Is mian liom buíochas a gabháil leis an Seanadóir Ó Maolcatha. I know the trojan work he put in in the sixties when he was alive to the necessity for the regional technical colleges, for example. I believe he chaired the committee and had great influence in this field. I am glad he emphasised the quality of the work I have been insisting upon and the flexibility which was referred to by a number of Senators. I see, in much the same way as he does, that we are not setting up a binary system but the council we are establishing here by statute will act as a lubricant to make the horizontal and vertical transfers in the third level easier.
Question put and agreed to.
The Seanad adjourned at 7.25 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 21 November 1979.