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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 Jun 1980

Vol. 94 No. 8

Finance Bill, 1980 [ Certified Money Bill]: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I do not wish to repeat what I said regarding the Supreme Court decision except to develop the point that the Government should have taken a stance on the matter, that there was a principle involved other than the principle of a social character which was involved in the decision by the court. Anyone can take any view he likes on the question of proper treatment in regard to the taxation of the incomes of married persons. The really important issue in this was that, in relation to the raising of finance for the discharge of the public business of this country, five gentlemen of the Supreme Court with a particular training in law and in law only—it is an accident and a happy accident if they are qualified in any other field, but all they are required to know is law—should have been in a position of intervening in the manner in which they intervened without the apparatus that they clearly have not got in the matter of decisions as to what was socially right and socially wrong in the taxation system which the people, through their representatives, chose. Therefore, far from going along with the Supreme Court as the Government did, they stretched their decision away out into other arenas, whereas their finding and judgment related solely to the taxation of the earnings of married couples.

More than those with earnings are treated in the budget and get benefits from the budget. I will naturally have to deal with the budget in terms of its economic and financial consequences but I should have thought that, whatever the Government's wisdom might have been as to the proper treatment of this social problem, they should have taken a stance with regard to the Supreme Court to give it every opportunity of becoming aware of the view of the Government and the view of the Members of this House and of the other House, whose job it is to decide how to raise taxation, who are a body of persons who are in a position to get for themselves experts in this field and to inform themselves fully of all the responsibilities of the Government in relation to the management of finances.

Whatever way this could be done it should of course be done with appropriate dignity and I would expect it would be so done. There are a whole series in my mind. I would have had no difficulty at all in seeing a half dozen different ways whereby the matter could have gone shooting back to the Supreme Court in one way or another, making it clear to them that there was a matter of contention here where the decision on an Article—an Article which requires a great deal of straining of thought in regard to its being drawn into the taxation field—muddled up the affairs of this country. We have been told by the Minister that as a result of this decision and because of an extension of it there has been an additional deficit of £220 million which we have to borrow this year. Be they right or be they wrong there are at least a substantial number of informed people in this country who think that the deficit we are faced with at the moment is already too large. That it would be too large to the extent of £220 million due in any part to the decisions of the Supreme Court is in itself a very serious matter. But it is a Government error if the decision has been extended into areas into which it does not have to extend.

In his introductory speech in the other House the Minister—and with great respect to him, this slightly nauseates me in the light of the further facts I have to give—said that we must all ensure that this new burden, unwelcome though it may be, will be shouldered evenly by all who can bear it, that collective community commitment and the action of all sections of the community are required and that these must be built on the firm foundation of a caring and sharing society. In some sort of way, if I were going to propose what is in this Bill, I would not have used those words. I start with the matter of who is paying what. There are people who would think it would be more prudent for me not to bring out the points that I now want to make clearly, that these points might be divisive of our society. We are in a free society and if we do not behave like free men it will not long survive as a free society. If we think that our slaves will not be listening to our conversation at dinner we are much mistaken or if we think that there are truths about these matters that will not become known, we are much mistaken. It is very important that these points be brought out by people like ourselves so that we know what we are doing.

I begin with figures from what is a private document though it comes from an institute that any one could join. However, I think you will accept it from me that these figures were prepared by an expert. I rely on them as being accurate. I shall take the case of a married couple without children and both earning equal salaries. At £20,000 a year, they will be paying, as a result of this budget, a tax of £6,734. In the year which has just ended they would have been paying a tax of £9,064. Where they had £10,936 left they will now have, as a result of the simple direct operation of the income tax propositions, £13,266 or a net additional purchasing or saving power of £2,330.

It does not end there. Before this they could have spent £450 on improving and maintaining their house but that allowance is now, by virtue of the dictates of justice, increased to £900. Instead of getting a relief of 60 per cent of £450, the couple will have not merely 60 per cent of £450 to claim but 60 per cent of another £450 which is £270. In addition to that, the limit on insurance in such a case has risen from £1,000 to £2,000 and I am taking a more conservative type of insurance policy in saying that they are allowed relief only at a half and not two-thirds. That gives them an additional £300. If they had a little money to play around with, if by any chance they had a picture on which they could make a capital gain, they could be tax free now on a capital gain of £1,000 instead of the previous figure of £500. Therefore, if you add £500, £300, £270 and £2,330 you get a figure of £3,400. That is the gain on the previous position. But in addition to that they are allowed to borrow an additional £2,400 and get full tax relief on it.

That relief will give them an extra £1,440 which brings it to £4,800. I am taking that £1,400 as an 18½ per cent interest charge on a personal borrower—the figure is £12,800—but one might ask why they should pay additional interest if they did not have to. First, perhaps they had to because of that being the level of the debt they were in. That would be the kind of situation which I think should be treated. But there are many people who are not in the position of being so burdened with mortgage interest and if anybody being so burdened without mortgage interest can be dealt with in the UK model where the amount of interest allowed is related to a house mortgage, the amount of the mortgage being specified, it may be assumed that if they do not have an existing debt of this order, the money they borrow from their bank at 18½ per cent will not be left idle. They do not have to be well-informed to know that they can give it to somebody who manages Irish gilts which bring in 15 per cent profit on the £12,800 free of all tax. According to my calculations on that, there is a total of reduced taxation and additional income of £6,720. To put it in a manner more favourable to the Minister, one could say that the only figure you should net to the £3,400 is the difference between the cost of the money at 18½ per cent and the return on the money at 15 per cent, which would be the net benefit to the taxpayer. That net benefit would be an additional £480, leaving a net additional benefit of £3,880.

Taking the view more favourable to the Minister on this, at a gain of £3,880 the taxpayer has now more than 35 per cent left in his hands, spendable in the sense of being invested in insurance savings or in improvements to his house. However, the gross figure should be taken because the Revenue do not get anything on the £1,920 that is made on the operation. Has anybody calculated what is the true cost of domestic borrowing in a gilt market where substantial sums are invested short-term by people who are not subject to any capital gains tax? It is the practice in dealing with corporations that they will be subjected to corporation tax but how many others avail of capital gains tax free, not being in any way liable either to corporation tax or to income tax?

Another point to which people's attention has not been drawn in relation to the treatment of the tax on people with high earnings is that for a long time a very low sum was allowed for deduction from tax in relation to people who had to provide for their own pensions. It was about £500 per year and then it rose to £3,000 or to 15 per cent of the relevant earnings. In 1978 the ceiling of £3,000 was removed so that now a man with net relevant earnings of £50,000 will have all that I have given by way of additional benefits, but he will have also the tax on the difference between the £3,000 and the 15 per cent, and the 15 per cent of the relevant earnings of £50,000 is £7,500. He gets complete tax relief of 60 per cent on the difference between the ceiling which was there and the ceiling which was abolished, which should be 60 per cent of £4,500 and which is £2,700.

That particular superannuation scheme may explain to some people why it is that certain characters take such large sums by way of earnings from their accounts because it is only their earnings which will count for this superannuation contribution and the superannuation contribution is on the basis that it contains an unidentified insurance element. The basis of it is that you pay your premium and deduct the premium from your income tax account. You do not have to do the same the following year though if you wish to do so, that is possible. If the insured dies before attaining the age for which the pension is taken, all the premiums are repayable. In the meantime there has been a saving in terms of tax of 60 per cent on each of them. But if one survives and takes a quarter of all that has been paid in, one can opt for himself or for himself and his wife in actuarial tables but one will be guaranteed that pension for a period of five years as well.

It may be said that the structure of our tax system is such that a consequence of giving allowances is always to benefit those who have high incomes. The consequence of giving allowances when you have a progressive tax system is to give most to the most but we need not be doing it in the allowance way. There are other ways for doing this. How can we say that this new burden, unwelcome though it may be, will be shouldered evenly? The facts are that people with high earnings will be enjoying net earnings substantially greater than the total cost of anything that is being taxed in this Bill. Their discretionary payments will be very considerably increased.

Another matter I have not mentioned because it is not a matter which flows directly from the budget but one that we must take account of, is the fact that up to 1977 any of the pairs I have referred to would have been paying tax to the authority concerned in respect of sewage, of the collection of refuse and of the provision of water and all the other services which go into accommodation which is occupied tax free. Such a man as would be in the order of income to which I have referred would be saved £600 to £800 a year in this respect. That is a very considerable addition and of course capital taxation, except in rare enough kinds of cases has more or less disappeared. This is very much more than cosmetics. If we are really concerned to get from everyone a general social commitment which is genuinely based on everyone knowing the truth about these things then these matters will have to be rectified.

My main criticism of the budget is very simply expressed. I do not think that this year anyone should have heard news from the Minister for Finance which was good news for him in the sense only that he was entitled to have any injustice done to him put right. There should not have been people who walked out of Leinster House or who read their papers that day or the following day and who felt better off. The people who are better off are crucially important people in this community. They are communicators. They are key advisers to well off people. They are executives. They are politicians. It does not get into them what ought to be got into them, that is, a sense of the urgency of our situation and a sense of the need for real satisfaction and not hollow mouthings about it.

I do not know whether it can be taken as agreed that what I have said is unnecessarily stark, that the budget deficit is too big. Despite the cuts in the expenditure which preceded the presentation of the Estimates—that seemed to me to be a genuine operation—I recognise the great difficulties in costing public expenditure but budgetary deficits come from two sides. They come from cutting expenditure. They also come from taxation adjustments. We have been told that the cost of the taxation adjustments is of the order of £220 million. I do not think we need worry about a couple of million here or there but it seems to be universally accepted that the budget was over-financed by deficit. The Minister must have read what has been said. He has referred to the very real international difficulties, to the oil price rise and to the trade depression which seems to be gathering. The Iran events did not occur until the autumn of 1978 and there were warnings to the Minister long before the autumn 1978. The Central Bank went further than I had seen them go for very many years and said of the budget that when one allows for the expected receipt of delayed revenue for 1979, the underlying reduction in the deficit was not as great as it might appear. The report continued:

There is a reduction sufficient to make an appreciable impact on the current account of the balance of payments. This year, as in 1979, fiscal policy is geared implicitly more towards financing than adjusting the balance of payments.

It then goes on:

The longer adjustment policies are deferred the more stringent they must be ultimately. It can no longer be assumed that time is on our side. Fiscal disposition this year must be adhered to, particularly in relation to pay so that there is no slippage as the year progresses. As for the future deficit, decisive measures are to be taken to eliminate the current budget deficit and reduce the relative size of the overall Exchequer borrowing requirement, thereby helping to achieve the necessary adjustment of the external deficit.

So much for what the Central Bank said this year. I will just take one sentence or so from the ESRI Report:

The stance of fiscal and monetary policy for 1980 is now determined. As a consequence the level of the balance of payments deficit will remain higher than is desirable.

The Irish Banking Review said:

The sharp rise in the public current spending financed by deficits was inappropriate for achieving full employment at a time when other pressures were working against the full employment objective. Expanding public spending through deficit budgets provides no substitute for a falling off in demand induced by deterioration in cost competitiveness in the private sector. The result is simply that a large part of the expansion of demand is spent on imports rather than on domestic products. Such a policy also renders the economy vulnerable to any external shock, such as was provided by the onset of further oil price problems in 1979 following the political turmoil in Iran. This event helped to depress domestic activity and it added to inflation.

The Cooper and Lybrandt report makes an interesting comment in regard to the payers of this deficit:

It appears that the credit guidelines takes into account the governmental public sector borrowing as an element in deciding how much credit is to be made available to the private sector. The more available to the public sector the less available to the private sector.

Everybody is running his own business around the country, be it a small one, a medium size one or a large one, and that is what we are talking about. We are not talking about monstrous capitalist institutions. We are talking about the people who have to work on their own and take care of their own affairs. They are in large the producers of the goods and services from which this economy is sustained. The Cooper and Lybrandt report states:

In the year since last February personal credit expanded by 10 per cent according to preliminary estimates of the central Bank. This year a limit of 6 per cent has been prescribed by the Bank. Allowing for the rate of inflation in consumer prices and the increase in interest rates last year and this year the result was a sharp decline in the real value of consumer credit in 1979 and 1980. However, whereas last year the decline in the volume of personal bank lending might be estimated at 7 per cent in the current year the decline is likely to be twice as great as last year was, or about 15 per cent.

I regret very much that the new Taoiseach and the new Minister for Finance—I am glad to welcome him to the House, this being the first time he has been here when I have been here—did not look into this problem and try to phase in a solution. The matter is very serious, as the Central Bank Report makes very evident. The minimum necessary tax concession should have been given, such concessions as were all part and parcel of the 15th national wage agreement. No concession should have been conceded which would make people feel in any way more comfortable about the situation.

The Central Bank, at the beginning of the report, states:

If a position were to be reached ultimately in which Ireland had to resort to official international financial agencies, credit would in all probability be conditional on the implementation of severe economic policies. The adjustment of the economy would be more rapid than need have been the case if appropriate measures had been taken earlier. Prudence alone would suggest that such a situation should be avoided. Our second obvious drawback associated with the rising level of external debt is the resulting increase in debt service obligations. Overtime, higher interest payments, pre-empt a greater share of borrowing and consequentially reduce the the net addition to available resources. An alternative way of putting this is that borrowing, while alleviating the effects of the balance of payments deficit in the short term, tends in the longer run to exacerbate the problem because payments in respect of interest charges increase the current account deficit. Interest payments this year on official external debts are expected to amount to some 14 per cent of the level of external reserves in the banking system.

How did this unhappy position come about? It is all very well grasping nettles but the nettle of the Supreme Court decision is as nothing compared to the nettle of getting this deficit right. There was time for a long dispute to go on between the Executive and Legislature and the Supreme Court. There was no need, it was an error and a weakness. It showed a lack of strength not to resist as much as prudently possible the implications of that decision, and pay damn little attention to the super tax revolt, because who pays for these reliefs in income tax but the people who have not incomes to be taxed?

It is regretably easy enough to see how the situation the Minister was faced with arose. It is for me a matter that the public ought to note in making its judgments of the qualities of the men involved to note that there was not decisiveness shown in solving the fiscal problems of this country at this time.

If this budget were better balanced there would have been that much more in times of real need and international recession to be phased into the private sector, money which would be better used for employment and productive pursuits and which would mark the fact that there was something like a change of Government taking place rather than a pretence. Someone wrote a verse at the time of the 1929 crisis on the day the £ fell out of bed, and he reconciled himself with the thought, as he crooned over the piano: "All the rich, the very rich, this very year will miss the Riviera and champagne," and that gave him great comfort. The rich, the very rich, this very year will not miss the Riviera and champagne as a result of this budget, and they ought to.

It is an interesting thesis for a student of political science to examine the genesis of the Fianna Fáil manifesto—it is the first time I have used the magic words "Fianna Fáil" in the House for a long time—the genesis of the Fianna Fáil manifesto, its first and second drafts, its third draft, how it finally got stuck in the gullet of the Irish people, Incidentally, has any of you over there got a copy of it? I was looking for one and I thought I could be still more unpleasant if I had a copy, and I thought I could be helped by asking someone on the Fianna Fáil benches to lend me one of their copies. Do not tell me that none of them has a copy of the economic miracle. This is absolutely extraordinary.

I will give the Senator mine when he has finished.

It would be interesting to see how that all came about because I do not take the view that Fianna Fáil are full of dishonest characters who can think only of getting office. There are a few characters there who have not my unstinted admiration, but I need not go further than that. How did people, who have had the responsibility of Government for so long, allow themselves to delude themselves, at a time when the economy was clearly coming back on stream, that what we wanted was more borrowing, when at last the Government of the day had stopped it and were bringing it down? I hardly think that Senators need proof about the successful operation of the economy in 1977?

Just look at the employment figures.

I will tell Senator Mulcahy, who is always helpful when I ask any questions. I will simply refer to a document the name of which I will give him. The document is The Economic Background to the Budget, 1978. The author of the document is not the present Minister for Finance but the previous Minister for Finance, Deputy Colley, and I am sure he is good enough for Senator Mulcahy and good enough for each of the Senators here. At the beginning of 1978 the Minister for Finance said:

Last year the Irish economy was in the unusual but gratifying position of having the highest growth rate in the EEC, and one of the highest in the OECD.

Deputy Garret FitzGerald did not say that. It was Deputy Colley, the Minister for Finance, who was doing his job honestly, telling the people the economic background to his budget. He said:

National output grew by over 5 per cent, twice the EEC average and well above the OECD figure of 3½ per cent. Consumer demand rose by about 5 per cent in volume compared with an increase of 2¾ per cent in 1976. Investment rose by 8 per cent in volume last year, activity in the building industry gathered momentum throughout the year, the volume of exports of goods and services rose by 22½ per cent in 1977, industrial exports were again buoyant, figures issued by Bord Fáilte showed the total number of tourists increased by 10 per cent, and revenue rose by 27 per cent, the rate of inflation abated significantly in 1977, the consumer price index rose on average by 13½ per cent compared with 18 per cent in 1976 and 21 per cent in 1975.

That was the situation at that time, and I do not want to say "I told you so", though indeed I did tell you so when I said, and perhaps someone will remember the phrase: "Wine, women, mirth and laughter, sermons and soda water the day after". I could quote myself from papers that are here, in which I pointed out how ridiculous it was for me, a Senator from the Opposition, to be pointing this out to the Government. This is from the Seanad Official Report for 31 May, 1978, and I will quote myself:

Every schoolboy, even every professor—I can guess who was in the Minister's seat that day—knows that any military strategist will have a strategy for the best possible case, a strategy for the worst possible case and a strategy for all the intermediate possibilities, that is, if he is a good strategist. I do not find any alternatives in the White Paper. I do not find this range of possibilities presented to us, I do not find therein a sufficient reminder of the limitation of our resources.

Not bad for 31 May, 1978, but earlier there had been a general election. I wonder could we all learn something out of that general election? When you look at Cooper and Lybrandt, and when you look at ESRI and at the Central Bank, when you look at anything but the records of that kind of a debate, you would not really think there was anything in this country called a Fianna Fáil Party or a Fine Gael Party or a Labour Party.

Political affairs seem to be put into some kind of fridge that is removed some distance from the economic commentators. They do not say, "The new Government and the new Minister have done this and it is all wrong." They do not say it as frankly as that. I have no doubt this is what they call prudence but it tends to mean that when politicians say their things they are always having their language discounted as being merely from special TDs, which is not true in all cases.

When in 1977, the Taoiseach was leading his Government into a battle that he unmistakably lost, and he made some speeches—I have not them all here but I dug up a few of them and I underlined a few of them—when he was fighting for re-election and he was being criticised by commentators and leader writers for the poor show the Government were putting up in the debate, that they were offering nothing attractive to the people compared to what was in this delicious dish, the green manifesto—and you know how inept and ineffective people must be if they cannot do anything but lash out money and pretend it is one's own—that was more or less the line and level of the political comments. Indeed, I would invite the writer of that thesis to study very carefully the newspapers throughout that debate to see how much of the scripts of people in Government actually saw the light of day in the newspapers. On 28 May Deputy Cosgrave said:

There are no easy ways, there are no soft options, we know the facts. What our opponents offer cannot be implemented ... if they reconstructed themselves and fitted themselves for Government again, I tell you this: they would be faced with the choice of breaking their promises or breaking their country.

If his lines were a little extravagant in political language, it was fairly enough put and only slightly ahead of its time. The economic astrologers who misled them should be sent back to their studies and taught to do their sums right. Deputy Cosgrave continued:

The Opposition programme involves either significant foreign borrowing or weighty new taxation, neither appropriate at this stage.

On 3 June, Deputy Cosgrave said:

Discharging my responsibilities to you as your elected head of Government I can tell you nothing less than the truth. There is no easy way before us in the future. We have not travelled an easy way to come to this point of the recovery. Only increased economic growth can secure for us the ability to pay for all those things dear to the heart of Irishmen. We have so far on the whole maintained our competitiveness, but if our costs increase further by giving ourselves incomes beyond our resources our competitiveness will be weakened, our exports damaged, our industry will suffer, our ability to bring the recovery to its next phase, the phase of significant growth in employment, will be impaired.

On 6 June he said:

Being in Government we know the fact. We have refused to make promises which would cost more than we know that people can afford. We are not prepared irresponsibly for party advantage to create obstacles for the recovery of the economy. We will not give pledges which we might have to redeem at a cost which would reduce our rate of future progress. We look to the future, a future with ever increasing growth in population, and chosen as the present representatives of the nation we will not betray our trust to the coming generation.

It might have been thought that he was trying to say something at that time. It might have been thought that, with the advantage of all the advisers he had at that time, a man no less anxious to be reelected Taoiseach than any other outgoing Taoiseach, and accompanied by a lot of people in his Cabinet who rather fancied themselves in the position again, that they would have been edging in and allowing themselves to go along the line of making promises, but they did not and they lost hope as a result of it.

But did not any questioning arise within Fianna Fáil as to why a set of human beings whom at least they knew to be reasonably intelligent men would refuse to make promises of the kind if it were possible to make them without it being regarded as rash and expensive for the people, as something which should be judged dangerous for the people? Did that question not arise? Did they not ask themselves "I wonder are we wrong?"—as wrong as a careful reading of the Central Bank Report of 1978, long before the oil crisis, suggested:

The expansionary thrust of policy this year, combined with the ambitious growth targets presented for 1979 and 1980, raise questions about prospective developments in the balance of payments in the official external reserves. The measures adopted in the budget will undoubtedly raise the pace of economic activity—

Anybody with an ounce of sense would have known that. There is nothing very difficult about raising the pace of economic activity, nothing very difficult about spending all the money in your pocket in one night. There is nothing much difficult about handing out money. The problem is what do you do with it and its purchases.

—largely due to their impact on private and public consumption and residential construction. The cost of this stimulus is a doubling of the current budget deficit. The risks associated with continued large-scale expansion are evident. The Government commitment to reduce the borrowing requirement and the current budget deficit in 1979 and 1980 is one which the Bank regards as essential.

This did not take place and the bank took this into account in formulating monetary policy for 1978. This is a very important sentence in the Central Bank Report, and I hope civil servants drew the Minister's and the Government's attention to this:

The White Paper recognises that an average annual growth rate of seven per cent up to the end of 1980 is likely to be accompanied by a substantial increase in the current balance of payments deficit if historical relations continue to obtain. The Bank expects the high rate of economic growth this year will lead to a doubling of the current balance of payments deficit. The external reserves are likely to fall. Looking further ahead, it is probably the external deficit in current account will continue to increase both in absolute terms and as a proportion of the national output. Apart from the problem of ensuring that the best possible use is made of the resources provided by enlarged deficits, there is in addition the question of the adequacy of the official external reserves to meet the demands likely to be made on them.

The Central Bank referred again to adequacy of external reserves and associated them with substantial increases in outstanding Government debt:

A large part of this debt is due to mature in the near future, already some of it has been rescheduled or may be rescheduled later. Despite this, some uncertainty surrounds the question of capital flows and therefore their reserve adequacies. The impact on reserves will still occur.

They ended with a quotation from the Third Programme of Economic and Social Development on reserves:

The freedom of action allowed by the possession of adequate reserves is particularly important for a small country vulnerable to external trading deficits. Without it economic management would have to be directed more to contending with temporary external dislocation than to meeting longer term domestic needs.

I have told you what I think of the general budgetary policy and I have quoted at some length from various documents which I brought together for the purpose of outlining my speech, and I do not propose, you will be glad to hear, to say much more.

I should like, in so far as it is possible, to give advance notice of one matter. The difficulty about mentioning Committee amendments to the Finance Bill is the time one has since one receives the Finance Bill, during which time one is thinking of what sort of blithering nonsense you are going to talk on Second Reading which tends to take your mind off later amendments made in the Dáil, and therefore it may well be that this point which I saw in one section has already been taken care of. I mention, one which seems clear from a section.

It is the section relative to the £400 relief for people on pay-as-you-earn. That was drafted in such way as to exclude spouse and children who are working for partners of the spouse or parent. I can tell you without telling too much about my affairs that there are three characters in the employment of the firm that I speak of who have been employed for some years and are fully qualified in their profession. It would seem that because they are employed severally by their fathers or by their fathers' partners that they will not get the £400 a year allowance, and I cannot think that that section was designed to deal with such a case at all. It is obviously designed to cope with the exploitation that would arise where everybody would be adding their children's names to the list of staff. There should be some method whereby a claim could be made which could be successful as proof that the work done was of a character similar to that done by other persons engaged in the same employment, where the onus of proof would be on the taxpayer to go in and prove his claim and file his declarations or affidavits. I mention that one ahead in case, by any chance, it can be provided, because it would be very unjust in the particular cases I know about and, if I know about these cases, I am sure there are others. I do not think the case can be met by saying "make them all partners". There are all sorts of reasons why that cannot be done. It may not be the wearable thing.

The Minister tells me that there is an appropriate section to deal with it. I can leave this to the Committee Stage but it would be useful for both the Minister and the Legislature if something more than has been said by the Minister on avoidance and evasion were said. I would prefer to leave that to the Committee Stage and I would like to put on record my own view on this which will not be very far away from the Minister's. It would be useful from the point of view of people in this trade and activity and occupation.

Last evening the Minister gave the economic background and explained the effect of the increased price of oil on this country and the effect of the recession outside the country. Senator FitzGerald went further back and has spoken on the economic side but has not always taken into account that there is a social aspect as well. If you go back to 1976, when there was high inflation, and the Government at that time took the orthodox action, there was one thing that was forgotten and that was that this country is different from other EEC countries in that we have a growing population and a very young population. What is essential is that we get employment for this population. Due to the action of the former Government, unemployment increased so that at the period of the change of Government, we had the highest youth unemployment ever. The policy which was introduced when this Government came in did tackle the situation of jobs. In that First year, not alone were the number of jobs increased but there was a reduction in unemployment. That is something that has to be kept to the fore when we are looking at the situation.

Senator FitzGerald also mentioned what he said last year. I have not got the Official Report at present but last year I also mentioned the fact that a government can create the climate but it is the attitude of the community that decides the progress that can be made. Looking back to last year we could say, to a certain extent, that it was a year of confrontation. We had sectionalised interests pressing very hard for their own benefit, irrespective of the consequences to other sections of the community. The farming community seemed to think of nothing else but taxation and pressed it so hard that the PAYE workers also pressed for equality in taxation. Due to the pressure of sectionalised interests, income in certain areas went above what we can afford. During the year the Government took action and we have the first national understanding. The Government decided that we should join the EMS to get discipline and stability in finance.

Looking at the position today, they were right because, if we were still on par with Britain, with the high rate of costs which we have here, we would Find it very difficult to export to Britain. That is the lead up to this budget, except for the fact that while this budget was being considered by the Government we had the Supreme Court decision on earned pay for married women. Senator FitzGerald has given his view on that. I am not a lawyer, I do not know what should have been done legally but, socially, what we must remember is that outside the question of the Supreme Court there had been pressure for relief for married women in respect of earned income. Already, in the previous budget the Government had made a move towards settlement of this problem and had intended taking it bit by bit. Therefore, the decision of the Government this time was to take it so that it covered the whole area.

You have to look at the advantages given by the decision of the Government as well as the disadvantages. Senator FitzGerald has picked out the area where allowances for insurance, repairs, loans, capital gains and so on have been doubled. In all the figures he has given he has used a rate of 60 per cent. There is one important thing: the change in the bands made in this budget puts the 60 per cent further up the scale. That is something we should remember. Senator FitzGerald did not mention that the allowance for the blind has doubled also. By the change which the Government have made in regard to income splitting—and that takes up more pages in the Finance Bill than any other action of the Government—people have been put outside the tax net. The result of this is that there is a definite improvement in home pay, especially for married people. The lower bands will give an incentive to work and to do overtime, especially to married persons. It is possible that absenteeism will be reduced. Where previously at the end of the year, earnings got into the high tax band, that will not be the case. The taxation system also means that there is an increase in net income without a wage increase. This will assist the competitive position of industry. There are definite benefits to industry in the income splitting which has been adopted by the Government.

The next item that takes up a lot of the Finance Bill is farming taxation. We all know that the cut-off has been reduced from £50 valuation to £40 valuation, but that is marginal relief. Farmers are now on accounts and the worry that they will have to employ auditors to check them is not necessary at all. There is a simple return required on the accounts and I understand that some of the forms have gone out already and have been seen. The farmer also gets the benefit of income splitting and gets stock relief up to over 10 per cent of profit. If he sells stock he can make a profit on it and be charged tax but if he replaces stock he will get relief. He gets full capital allowances on farm buildings and fixed plant and machinery but not on mobile machinery. Industry does not get relief on lorries and vans. There is also the question of resource tax. There is marginal relief on that. The farming community have been assured that this is not necessarily a permanent thing. The farmer appears to be far better than industry as regards taxation at present. The incentives are there to increase output. The important thing is that there is no super levy.

Another part of the Finance Bill is the corporation profits tax at 10 per cent. This brings the interest of manufacturers into the home market, which is important. There has been a lot of consumer demand. There has been quite a considerable sale through retail outlets of fully manufactured items coming from outside the country. This has affected the balance of payments. We can concentrate more on selling Irish goods—I am saying selling rather than buying because I know from personal experience that in certain retail outlets Irish manufacture is not even on offer. That is an important matter. Retailers should take the long term view and not stock foreign items to get sales. They lose in the long term. The day comes when they want lower interest rates and aid to their trade. Then they will see the error of their ways. The corporation profits tax should help this situation and the home market.

We have to pay for services which the Government have given. The Government realise that we still have to deal with jobs. The money allocated to the IDA has been increased. Money allocated for infrastructure necessary to industry has been increased. These things have to be paid for. Therefore, there have been indirect tax increases, such as on beer, wine, spirits, tobacco. As the Minister said last night, that amounts to only 4 per cent in the cost of living. It is something we have to pay, as we have to pay for the increased price of oil. I am repeating more or less what I said last year. The Government can create the climate. On taxation they have created a climate in which you can work more and not lose your earnings through tax. The farmer's main aim should be to increase output. He cannot rely any more on increased prices. There is plenty of room for increased output. Industry must increase output and exports. The only way we can improve our standard of living is to increase the GNP. That is to cover private spending and the money that the Government spend on our behalf. That has to be increased. Therefore, again this year we are looking to see what the attitude of the community as a whole will be.

The Taoiseach has appealed publicly for a year of peaceful industrial relations. It is difficult to understand what is happening. At this moment there is a strike which is affecting the tourist industry, the economy of the country. That is a strike by a union, a party of the Congress and Congress is a party to the national understanding. Yet, we have this strike. It is very difficult to understand why people create confrontation for personal gain for the short term and cannot see that the long term will affect them because it will affect the community. I hope we will have the right attitude, that people will not be pressing their own personal interests but will look this year to the benefit of the community as a whole.

Because it is an issue that has already been raised in this debate I propose to begin by considering the provisions of the Finance Bill dealing with the taxation of married couples, not the provisions which bring the general position into line with what I have always believed is the essential fairness and equity that people were not penalised in the financial code by the fact of their marriage. The provisions of the Finance Bill, which purport to act under the judgment of the Supreme Court in relation to either taxes or assessments made or assessments in the back years starting with 1979 and 1980 and backwards, are contained in sections 20 and 21. The Minister, in his speech introducing the Bill, referred briefly to these sections. He said that section 20 provides, in line with the Supreme Court judgment of 25 April, to which I have already referred, that there will be no general repayment of tax in response to claims of overpayment made in earlier years as a consequence of the aggregation of the incomes of husband and wife.

I propose to consider the judgment of 25 April and to put it to the Minister that that is going further than the Supreme Court judgment and is not bearing in mind a very important reference in the judgment of Mr. Justice Henchy to the question of special circumstances. I put it to the Minister that special circumstances certainly arise when there was a judgment of the High Court in October of last year striking down the constitutionality of the aggregation of the earned incomes of married couples and a successful appeal from there to the Supreme Court. I will deal with that at some length.

The Minister then referred to section 21. He says the purpose of section 21 is to provide for the full payment of taxes in 1979-80 and earlier years by those who have not yet done so. Where assessments are made for those years the amount of tax payable under those assessments will correspond with the amount which would have been payable if the taxpayer had been assessed for the relevant years at the proper time. This will ensure equity of treatment between those who have already paid their taxes and those who have not yet done so.

Effectively, what this section proposes to do in a rather complex and technical way—which, presumably, we will have a full opportunity to discuss on Committee Stage—is to breathe new life into what was declared by the Supreme Court to be unconstitutional and to continue to over-tax married couples who had not paid, either because they had not been assessed or because they were self-employed and did not pay during the current year, or because they were disputing their tax with the Revenue. This is—certainly in my time in political life, and in this House—a new situation, that a Government would propose to close in a different way what has been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court and to propose to go ahead to do it.

Because the issue is a very important one, it is necessary to put the whole subject in context and, with great respect to him, Senator Alexis FitzGerald took it a little bit out of its real context, although I agreed with a number of other points that he made. We need to put the subject in context: refer to the original judgment of the Supreme Court in January and then refer to the specific provisions of the judgment of April of this year, which the Minister appears to be relying on. I do not believe he can do what he proposes to do relying in any way on the judgments of the Supreme Court.

I accept that the Minister has taken advices—he mentions that he has taken advices—and what I am doing here is giving another view that is given with objectivity and impartiality. I have examined the judgments in great detail. As the Minister probably knows, I was involved professionally in the case and, for that reason, I want to confine my remarks to analytical assessment of the judgments and then relate that to the provisions which are before us in the Finance Bill. Turning first of all to the judgment of the Supreme Court, it was one judgment of the Supreme Court because the Supreme Court was considering a post-Constitution Act, the sections of the Income Tax Act of 1967 and it was delivered by Mr. Justice Kenny on 25 January 1980. I need only refer to two brief passages in that judgment and to the conclusion. At page 5 of his judgment, Mr. Justice Kenny stated the essence of the situation. He said:

The consequence of the assessment on the husband in respect of his wife's income is to make the amount of tax which he pays greater than the aggregate of the amount which would be payable by the two of them if they were either not married or married and separated.

That, essentially, was the position which was at issue in this case. It was a test case. It was brought with the active support of many hundreds, indeed one could nearly say the active support of over a thousand and the moral support of every married couple in this country.

The issue was over-payment of tax on the basis of marriage. The technique for getting that over-payment was a technique of aggregation, but it could have been done by other methods. The Minister is proposing, in section 21 of this Bill, to bring in another technique, not calling it aggregation, to do what the Supreme Court said was unconstitutional, to require those married couples to over-pay tax, to have an undue burden which fails to protect married couples in our society.

I find it very difficult to see where the justification for this comes from, either in the judgments which I am going to refer to or in my knowledge and understanding of constitutional law and principles. The issue which the Supreme Court was adjudicating on in its judgment of January was the issue that the consequence of the assessment was to make the amount of tax paid greater because the incomes were Act-dated, greater than they would have paid if they were single and greater than they would have paid if they had been married but separated for the purposes of assessing their tax.

Mr. Justice Kenny then referred to the burden on the plaintiffs in their case. They had to discharge a burden of upsetting a presumption of constitutionality which ran in favour of the sections of the 1967 Act. I mention this specifically because, in identifying the burdens, he makes it clear what the court were examining and what they were doing in the case. Mr. Justice Kenny said:

The onus is on the plaintiffs to establish that the higher income tax liability which may fall on the husband is a clear breach by the State of its pledge to guard with special care the institution of marriage and to protect it against attack.

So the plaintiffs had a burden which they discharged to the satisfaction of the Supreme Court, that the tax paid by a married couple living together was a burden which was unconstitutional because, by requiring a married couple living together to pay that burden, the State was not protecting marriage. It was not aggregation of the technique that was the issue. It was the burden of being overtaxed. That is something that we need to bear in mind very carefully.

In conclusion Mr. Justice Kenny, on behalf of the court, said:

The court accepts the proposition that the State has conferred many revenue, social and other advantages and privileges on married couples and their children. Nevertheless the nature and potentially progressive extent of the burden created by section 192 of the Act of 1967 is such that, in the opinion of the court, it is a breach of the pledge by the State to guard with special care the institution of marriage and to protect it against attack. Such a breach is, in the view of the court, not compensated for or justified by any advantages or privileges. The court will, accordingly, declare that sections 192 to 198 inclusive of the Act of 1967 in so far as the sections provide for the aggregation of the earned incomes of married couples are repugnant to the Constitution.

I emphasise again—because there may be a misunderstanding—that it is not the aggregation as a technique for requiring married couples living together to pay more tax that was the real issue. It was the burden of having to pay more tax that was the issue and that was what the Supreme Court declared to be unconstitutional.

That was the judgment of the Supreme Court in January 1980 and that judgment gave rise to a number of questions being asked and counsel for the Attorney General sought to speak to the order of the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court set a date for argument on that. Five judgments were delivered on the issues which were argued before the Supreme Court as to the scope and effect of the judgment. The reason there were five judgments was because this was not ruling on the constitutionality of a post-Constitution statute. Therefore, judges were in a position, if they wished to, all five of them, to deliver judgments.

I am going to confine my further analysis of those judgments to the judgment of Mr. Justice Henchy which became essentially the majority judgment since it was conferred in by two other judges of the Supreme Court and, therefore, was the majority judgment in its impact. I have to refer to a number of passages—I will be as brief as I can on it—because there is again and again the confinement of the scope of this judgment of Mr. Justice Henchy, which was a majority judgment of the Supreme Court, to the question of repayment of tax already paid. That is the first point. Also there was the important reference to special circumstances which might require refunding of tax already paid. I want to focus on these two issues.

First of all, in a passage at page 8 of the judgment of Mr. Justice Henchy, he refers to the nature of the issue which was before the Supreme Court on this occasion in April. He says:

The question that has arisen in the manner I have indicated may be formulated thus: Where the plaintiffs have paid, or have had deducted from their earnings, income tax collected under statutory provisions which were subsequently declared unconstitutional, can they recover back such income tax; and if so, to what extent?

He says it is a question of profound importance, not only for this issue of income tax but for the whole area of law. It is an issue that has been considered by courts in other countries.

That was the issue: whether there could be a claim back of tax paid, a refund or restitution of money already paid. The Supreme Court went on, in the important legal finding in the case, to reject the argument put forward by counsel for the Attorney General that the effect of the judgment of the Supreme Court should only operate what is called prospectively from the date of the judgment, and for the future, or for the financial year which was coming.

Mr. Justice Henchy said on that point:

The argument that invalidity is to attach to the condemned sections only when the High Court or Supreme Court says so—which is in essence what has been propounded on behalf of the Attorney General—fails in my view for three main reasons: 1) it fails to recognise the true nature of the constitutional limitation of the legislative power vested in the Oireachtas; 2) it distorts the meaning that must be given to "invalid" in its constitutional context; and 3) it flies in the face of an unbroken line of judicial decisions which, expressly or necessarily by implication, point to the date of enactment as the date from which invalidity is to attach to the measure which has been struck down because of its unconstitutionality.

That was the basis on which Mr. Justice Henchy and other judges found that the invalidity dated from the date of enactment of the 1967 Act. Then the court went on to address itself to this question: since the sections were legally void ab initio was everything done under them necessarily totally invalidated and, specifically, if money had been paid over by a taxpayer, could the taxpayer recover that money? That was essentially the issue.

On page 29 of the judgment Mr. Justice Henchy says:

Once it has been judicially established that a statutory provision enacted by the Oireachtas is repugnant to the Constitution, and that it therefore incurred invalidity from the date of its enactment, the condemned provision will normally provide no legal justification for any act done or left undone, or for transactions entered into, in pursuance of it; and the person damnified by the operation of the invalid provision will normally be accorded by the courts all permitted and necessary redress.

He goes on to say that in circumstances such as this the situation may be that it is not possible to restore the status quo; it is not possible to undo what has been done.

At page 30 of the judgment he says:

Over the centuries the law has come to recognise, in one degree or another, that factors such as prescription (negative or positive), waiver, estoppel, laches, a statute of limitations, res judicate, or other matters (most of which may be grouped under the heading of public policy) may debar a person from obtaining redress in the courts for injury, pecuniary or otherwise, which would be justiciable and redressible if such considerations had not intervened.

We have reference to the exceptional circumstances and reference to the particular complexity and difficulties of a case such as this. In some circumstances what has been done cannot in fact be undone. The judge referred to a particularly graphic image. He said:

The statue has taken its shape and can never go back to the quarry.

He then goes on to confine himself to the issue before the court. He says:

I confine myself, therefore, to the precise question raised: notwithstanding the invalidity ab initio of the condemned sections, are the taxes collected under them recoverable?

It is important that that was the issue before the Supreme Court. That has a direct relevance to section 21 of the Finance Bill.

On page 41 of the judgment Mr. Justice Henchy referred to the fact that the State, prior to the challenge of constitutionality, could have operated under the assumption that it was unconstitutional.

On page 42 of his judgment he looks at the specific issue of a person who had paid tax and who had not challenged the payment of it. He said:

I would consider that a taxpayer who allowed his PAYE tax contribution to be deducted from his earnings, every week or every month, for the whole of a tax year, without bringing proceedings to assert the unconstitutionality of such deductions, should (in the absence of exceptional and excusing circumstances) be held barred from recovering back the sums unwarrantedly collected during that tax year.

There is the first reference to "in the absence of exceptional and excusing circumstances". I suggest to the Minister that there are very definitely exceptional and excusing circumstances when the High Court has declared that an Act is unconstitutional and somebody, because he has to as a PAYE worker, pays on the basis of aggregation subsequent to that judgment, knowing that the Act had been declared to be unconstitutional, and not being in a position to control the question of the payment.

Half way down page 43 the judge goes on to say:

For my part, I consider that, in the absence of special circumstances (which have not been shown to exist in this case), payment of PAYE taxes during the whole of a tax year, without instituting proceedings to have the taxes invalidated on the ground of unconstitutionality, should be held to defeat a claim made later to recover the taxes paid during that year.

I may come back to the passage the Minister put on the record of the House in the Dáil. What are we talking about when we talk about exceptional circumstances, and when we talk about special circumstances? I submit that we are talking about a situation where a test case was brought by a married couple, two national school teachers, that they were overtaxed by the fact of their marriage and living together, that they succeeded in the High Court in that action, and that any other married couple, from that point on if not before that, were not only on notice but were paying any tax they were paying in a situation where they totally realised and appreciated that there had been a successful action in the High Court, that it was appealed to the Supreme Court and that it was necessarily being paid therefore under a protest. In some cases the protest is more explicit than others.

The Supreme Court did not say that the only way you could get your tax back was if you definitely instituted legal proceedings before the commencement of the tax year. That is what the Minister says, but the Supreme Court does not say that. Mr. Justice Henchy did not say that. In the earlier passage he mentioned exceptional circumstances. In this passage he says:

For my part, I consider that, in the absence of special circumstances (which have not been shown to exist in this case), payment of PAYE taxes during the whole of a tax year, without instituting proceedings to have the taxes invalidated on the ground of unconstitutionality, should be held to defeat a claim made later to recover the taxes paid during that year.

As a lawyer I would say that if a person knows that a High Court action has been instituted, that that High Court action has been successful in the High Court and has been appealed to the Supreme Court, it would be exceptional certainly to commence an identical High Court action in the face of that, exceptional because we have no legal aid in this country for civil cases and, therefore, you incur the considerable cost of getting a solicitor and counsel to draft the proceedings and issue them—almost one might say vexatious. The issue was already being determined in the pipeline.

I would submit that this is what must be read into "special or exceptional circumstances". Perhaps on Committee Stage we can develop what might have been meant by Mr. Justice Henchy by "special or exceptional circumstances". One thing is clear: the Government have allowed no circumstances. The Government's provision is further and far more sweeping than what was said in the Supreme Court on this issue. That must be realised.

Finally I will refer to the conclusions of Mr. Justice Henchy in this judgment. He said:

Since my opinion is that ss. 192 to 198 (inclusive) of the Income Tax Act, 1967 were invalid from the date of their enactment, I would hold, on the evidence as it stands, that moneys collected for income tax on an income based on an aggregation of the incomes of the plaintiffs is not recoverable by them for any period prior to the tax year 1978-79, which was the tax year in respect of which the constitutionality of those sections was first effectively impugned. The period to be covered by any necessary accounts and inquiries, therefore, would appear to be the tax years 1978-79 and 1979-80.

The evidence given in the High Court did not disclose that the claim had been formulated on behalf of any other taxpayers impugning the sections in question or seeking the recovery back of any taxes collected under them. If that be the true position, it would seem that, in the events that have happened and for the reasons given in this judgment, no taxpayers other than the plaintiffs would have the standing necessary to maintain a claim that the State should reimburse them for any taxes collected under the condemned sections.

There are two important points I want to make about that. The judge, at the end of his judgment, as at the beginning and right through his judgment, is talking about reimbursement of a taxpayer, reimbursement of moneys paid by the taxpayer which, for the reasons teased out in the judgment, would not be recoverable. He is not talking about people who have not paid the tax, either because they have disputed their tax liability, or because they do not pay during the current year but pay in the next year, or because they have not been assessed for taxation. There is no part of the judgment of the Supreme Court that deals with that issue. It was not before the Supreme Court and it was quite clear that they were talking about restitution of tax.

It is going beyond what Mr. Justice Henchy said in his judgment and in his conclusion to say, as the section of the Finance Bill says, that no person can get a repayment for 1979-80, or earlier years, unless before the commencement of that relevant year he had instituted legal proceedings to assert the unconstitutionality of the provisions of the Income Tax Act to authorise such aggregation. That is a very narrow and for the PAYE worker a very discriminatory interpretation of the scope of the Supreme Court judgment. It does not allow for the exceptional circumstances or special circumstances to which the Supreme Court referred. It does not allow for the reality of the fact that the case was a test case brought on behalf of a large number of married couples. It does not allow for the fact that, if somebody knows that an action is successful before the High Court, and on appeal to the Supreme Court, it is a duplication, if not vexatious litigation, to launch a whole lot of proceedings.

Perhaps that will happen now and if there is a case at hearing before the High Court other people will feel that they should join in it. Perhaps it was a mistake when these proceedings were issued not to have joined hundreds and maybe thousands of plaintiffs. The Supreme Court, for reasons which relate to the complexity of the situation, or reasons which I certainly can both understand and accept, was making it clear that you cannot have refunds over years of tax paid. It is purporting to read a great deal more into and relying on a Supreme Court judgment which did not say that, to say that somebody would definitely have had to commence a High Court action before the start of the tax year if he was seeking to claim any refund.

Section 21 in my view is a fascinating section. It is very complex. What it proposes to do is to provide for assessments for married couples for 1979-80, and for earlier years, not in a straightforward way by aggregating their incomes—the Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional—but by assessing them in a manner that achieves precisely the same effect; in other words, placing on them the burden the Supreme Court said was not only unconstitutional but was unconstitutional from the date of its enactment in 1967.

I have read the debate on these points in the other House. The Minister did not deal with this problem. To some extent he was not required in the course of the debate to deal with it. How is the Minister getting over the hurdle of unconstitutionality? How is he authorising placing the burden on married couples of paying more tax than they would pay if they were not married, or if they were separated, when the Supreme Court, when the issue was before it, declared unconstitutional a section which did that, and said it was unconstitutional since 1967, and then went on in a second judgment to deal with the question of restitution of tax already paid? It is quite clear that the whole of the judgment in April was on the basis of whether there could be and to what extent there could be restitution of tax already paid.

I should like to make some comments which arise from what I have read of the remarks of Senator FitzGerald last night and heard this morning on what appears to be an attempt to blame the Supreme Court or to say that the Supreme Court took on itself a jurisdiction it should not have taken on, or encroached on the Legislature. I take a very different view of the role of the Supreme Court and of what it did in this case. The Supreme Court is there for the oppressed citizen to have recourse to it. The Supreme Court and the High Court were there for Mr. and Mrs. Murphy to have recourse to when they realised, as so many other married couples realised that just by the fact of their marriage they were paying additional taxation. They were paying more than they would if they simply lived together. There was increasing evidence that this was having a very understandable impact on young people. It was a tax on marriage; it was a penalty on getting married; it was a disincentive to get married. This is part of the fiscal code in a country which, in its Constitution, proclaims the importance of marriage and says that the State will afford it special protection.

Citizens had recourse to the High Court and then to the Supreme Court. The High Court, and on appeal the Supreme Court, dealt with the issue before them. The issue before them in January was the issue of whether this burden on married couples was constitutional. The Supreme Court said "no", for the reasons given in that judgment. Then in April last, the Supreme Court was asked a different question: given that the additional burden on married couples living together is not constitutional, can there be a refund and if so, in what circumstances? The idea that somehow we would accuse the courts of encroaching on the role of the Legislature is particularly ironic when the only reason the matter came before either the High Court or the Supreme Court was the signal failure of the politicians and the Oireachtas down the years to come to grips with this, despite many reports, many representations being made, leaflets being printed, meetings being held, and the obvious inequity of the situation.

Now we have a Finance Bill that makes this provision. I approve of the extension to married couples where only one of the spouses is going out to earn an income. I approve of the provisions for income splitting. But they came, it is fair to say, at least partly as a result of the fact that individuals had gone before the court. This is by no means the only example. Anybody who is interested in social research here would find that a thesis on the way in which we achieve social and legislative reform, and the role of the courts in that area, would be very fruitful. We cannot blame the courts. I am not saying I am totally uncritical of individual judgments or individual approaches. Like any other lawyer on some occasions I would disagree on legal grounds with what was done. It is ironic that legislators should blame the court for its judgment on the married taxation case for encroaching on our jurisdiction when we have so signally failed. Not just this Government but successive Governments failed.

I should like to deal briefly with an important point which was raised substantially by Senator FitzGerald. This is the question of the need in our taxation code, and in our whole approach to raising revenue, to ensure that the burden falls on those who can best afford to pay it and that we protect the vulnerable sections of our society. That is a separate issue. It may to some extent be affected by the taxation decision, but it is a separate issue which can and should be dealt with by the Government.

In this connection, the Government should pay very serious attention to the recent Report of the National Economic and Social Council on Alternative Strategies for Family Income Support. This report once again makes a very important case which has relevance to the way in which we treat and, indeed, respect families in Ireland. It makes it clear that, in fact, our society penalises large families and particularly penalises large families where there is either one low income or they are on social welfare.

I should like to refer to some of the points made in that report, as summarised at the beginning of the report of the study carried out by Councillor Eithne Fitzgerald who was the consultant retained by the NESC to compile the report. Starting at page 8 there is a summary of the various chapters.

Paragraph 5 reads:

In chapter I the consultant indicates that the value of income tax allowance for children has declined and in real terms is now at its lowest level since the foundation of the State. Furthermore the consultant argues that the tax threshold, i.e. the income at which a taxpayer becomes liable to pay income tax, has not been adjusted upwards over time to reflect the rate of inflation.

I appreciate that there may be some slight improvements to that in the Finance Bill, but the general proposition remains a valid one.

In Chapter 2 Eithne Fitzgerald examines family income support and the issue of poverty. She looks at the results of a "Household Budget Survey". That leads her to conclude:

... That, "a significant number of families with a working parent are nevertheless poor and the larger the family, the more likely they are to be in poverty". Poor families then are categorised into two broad groups, i.e., those with a parent in employment and those dependent on social welfare payments.

The report goes on to examine alternative strategies for helping both the working poor with a family and the family dependent on social welfare. I cannot go into full detail on this report. Perhaps it is a matter for a debate in this House on its own. There are a number of important recommendations, for example, the possibility of the introduction of a scheme of State income supplements for families with incomes below a certain level—this operates in the UK as the Family Income Supplement Scheme—the need to change from a system of children's tax allowances which favour the higher income groups, to very substantial child benefit cash payments, which would be an important means of support for families, which would favour the lower income families, and specifically favour those with a larger number of children. A very important point is made, and there is a theme in this report, where Eithne Fitzgerald indicates that family benefits in Ireland do not differentiate between children of various ages, despite the fact that there is very conclusive evidence available which shows that family costs are closely linked with the ages of children. She suggests that the provision of supplements be examined when children are at particularly expensive stages in the cycle of their lives and that this can be implemented and can be studied.

She also looks at the question of a mother's wage for a mother staying at home. The report does not go into great detail on this, but she says the principle of it is extremely important and should be examined.

This kind of examination of alternative strategies for family income support is the context in which we should be considering the whole question of the way in which the State supports and helps the family. In that context I should like to refer to the examination of the one parent family in the report. This is in Chapter 5 of the report where the level of financial aid to one parent families is examined. There is some interesting statistical information that these account for 6.5 per cent of all families and they include, of course, families of widows, widowers, single mothers and deserted wives. I quote again from Mrs. Eithne Fitzgerald in that report. She says:

Families with one parent only are likely to experience much more financial hardship than families with two parents. Because of the difficulties involved in looking after children, many such families must depend on income from social welfare payments rather than earnings from employment.

The examination in Chapter 5 goes on to ascertain—something we are all more or less aware of but it is very relevant—that the majority of one parent families are headed by women, and approximately nine out of ten such families are in receipt of weekly social welfare payments. Mrs. FitzGerald in this report gives examples of the incomes and transfer payments of specimen one-parent families and recommends greater State support for such families. She points out that the problems of one parent families are not simply financial, but are compounded by emotional problems, by serious housing problems, and by problems associated with rearing children on one's own. Therefore, it emerges from this report that children in such families may be more likely to be at risk than those in two parent families and may require particular attention and concern by the State in order to ensure that they do not end up in need of institutional care.

These are the important kind of values which we should bear in mind when discussing either taxation of married couples or the kind of provision that the State makes for the family. There is one aspect of this debate following the Supreme Court judgment, and the provisions of the Finance Bill, which has not been raised, or has not been raised sufficiently. I would regret a result which meant that married couples benefited from provisions such as those contained in the relevant sections of the Finance Bill if these provisions were denied to those in our society who are living together in a stable relationship to all intents and purposes as husband and wife. They may even believe they are married. There are a number of people in our society who believe they are married but who, in fact, are not married.

There are a number of people who would want to get married if one or other party was free to get married but, since we have not taken the important step of amending the Constitution and allowing for divorce, they are unable to get married, unless they live in a higher income bracket and can travel outside this country and get divorced and come back. We also have an increasing incidence of that. It should not depend on whether persons can afford to go abroad for a divorce so that they can get a remedy for a marriage breakdown. It certainly should not depend on whether they can marry and therefore come within what I would accept are significant benefits for a married couple.

I hope in his reply the Minister will deal with this question of people who are in a stable relationship, to all intents and purposes as a husband and wife, with a family, and what the Government's approach is to the possible discrimination which they suffer, mainly because we have failed to provide legal redress for them.

I would like to refer briefly to the general economic position which is necessarily the background to discussing the Finance Bill. I would like to follow up, to some extent, a theme which Senator FitzGerald developed. He made the point that the Minister appeared reluctant to face the overall reality, that he seemed reluctant to accept the seriousness of the situation which this country faces and it is a very serious situation. We have an inflation rate running at over 20 per cent; we have unemployment rising in a very serious and depressing fashion and there is no indication that this is going to taper off at the moment. Every day that we open our newspapers there is warning of possible redundancies or lay-offs or even Irish businesses closing. This is extremely serious. We have a very serious balance of payments problem as has already been mentioned and our growth rate is going to be much lower this year than it has been in the past few years.

As well as that—and this is an important factor—our agricultural sector is not, as it was in the earlier period of recession in 1974 and 1975, in a healthy state. This Finance Bill is only tinkering, and not tinkering very successfully, with the dimensions of the problem which is before us and I do not look at the problem in a totally pessimistic sense either. I believe—and it is not going to be an easy thing for any politician to do—that the Government have a responsibility to spell out much more explicity that we are all going to suffer a reduction in our standard of living in this year and probably in next year. The Government have an equal responsibility to ensure that where there has to be a reduction in the standard of living and in the standard of income in real terms that those reductions fall most on those who are at the top of the scale and that those at the bottom are protected from that effect and do not suffer the crippling effects of inflation on their income which is already at the poverty line or, in many cases, below the poverty line and ensure that they are the ones who will have a real increase in their living standards.

That is one area where for some reason—and I think it has to do with party political advantage—the Minister particularly appears to be very reluctant to face up to the situation. I watched him—as I am sure a number of other people did—being interviewed on television the night the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs were in Venice for the conclusion of the European Council there. The Minister hedged and hummed and hawed but did not come to the crunch of saying, even though the question was put to him several times, that there would in fact inevitably be a reduction in real terms in the standard of living of the people here. If that message is not got across in the sense that the Government are either afraid or reluctant for political reasons to say that, then I do not believe we have the beginnings of the kind of serious steps that have to be taken by us as a society, steps that have to be taken in the context of equity and justice and fairness and concern for both the lower income groups and the unemployed and those on social welfare and those on low fixed incomes. That is one of the elements that is lacking in building some consensus in our society of where we go from here.

The other area where we are not doing nearly enough as a society, where we are not beginning to take the steps that we should take, is in the area of energy conservation. That does not just mean token measures or a certain amount of extra borrowing from EEC sources for certain steps to be taken; it means a radical look at the way in which we consume and indeed waste energy in our society. It involves a great deal more education and creation of awareness of the kind of steps that need to be taken. It has an effect everywhere, in our housing, in our transport, in our lifestyles, in our approaches to the kind of society which we ought to be seeking to ensure for the future.

I conclude by saying that—and on Committee Stage there will be an opportunity to develop some of these points in more detail—although there are some measures in this Finance Bill which I approve of, measures in relation to widows and in relation to personal allowances, it does not begin to cope with the real issues that are dividing and polarising our society; it does not really bring about the tax reform that the PAYE marches were all about. It does not really bring about the substantial measures which would be the alternative strategy for the family income support that the NESC report is all about. It does not even resolve the issue of farmer taxation because we are left again with a big question mark on that.

We are told that there will be a resource tax but the farmers have been given to understand that this will not be a permanent feature or is unlikely to be a permanent feature. Again the Government seem to be shying away from political responsibility, shying away from creating the context in which we can highlight the values of seeing the situation as a community, of protecting the weak and vulnerable sectors and of facing the reality of our situation as a country on the periphery of western Europe at the start of the decade of the eighties where there is massive world starvation, where we ourselves have a very serious balance of payments problem, where the energy crisis is going to get worse and not better. None of this emerges from the Finance Bill or emerges from statements from the Government. The situation is one where we have not got a coherent framework in which to go forward over the next few years. That, I know, places responsibility on anybody in political life but I would hope that in his reply the Minister can deal with some of these issues and give us some indication of Government thinking.

My comments will relate to the general strategy of this year's budget and to some other aspects of the Government's financial policy rather than to the details of this Bill.

First, I will comment on the budget itself. I have made no secret of my disquiet at the adverse trend over the past decade in current public expenditure, foreign borrowing to finance current deficits, and the widening gap in our external payments. The recent budget attempted to arrest this trend. It did so after a period in which, regrettably and imprudently, the adverse trend was accelerated. The budget did not achieve any radical reform of the public finances. That is a process requiring continued effort over the years ahead. But it did impose a brake and it did arrest what had become an alarmingly rapid slide towards disaster. That this is not too ungenerous a view is borne out by the Minister's own assertion in his budget speech that "the initial progress made this year towards bringing our finances into balance will clearly have to be built upon in the coming years" and by his and the Taoiseach's references to "a significant start".

The budget indeed is no more than that, seeing that an enormous gap still exists between current revenue and expenditure, that the public borrowing requirement is still too high, that our external deficit is again expected to exceed £700 million this year and that we are running a dangerously high rate of inflation with virtually no growth in national living standards. The unpalatable fact is that the nation's current standards are being maintained, and can continue to be maintained, only by incurring very heavy foreign debt and that two or three years' economic growth may be needed to haul us out of this morass.

We are in this morass partly because of the huge increase in energy costs in recent years. But there is no way we can shrug off this extra burden. We can and must lighten it by cutting out waste, by energy conservation. But our living standards have been irreparably impaired. The Secretary General of the OECD recently drew this conclusion and I quote:

Oil-importing countries must see to it that the real income loss resulting from higher oil prices ...is absorbed by all income earners on an equitable basis.

So those who insist that incomes must rise in line with prices seem not only to forget that energy price increases are an inescapable burden but they also seem to be opposed to redistribution of incomes through taxation in favour of the old, the widowed, the unemployed and the disabled. I say this because if one were to exempt wages and salaries from the process of redistribution in favour of social welfare beneficiaries, one would be exempting nearly 60 per cent of total personal income and, of course, this would frustrate the whole process.

It is unfortunately true that, to quite a significant degree, present living standards are artificial since they are not based on current production. They depend precariously on our continuing to run up foreign indebtedness merely to support consumption rather than increased investment. As I said a moment ago, it may require the whole of the growth of the next few years—unless, of course, the rate of growth reverts more quickly to normal—to reduce this dangerous dependence on foreign borrowing and to establish our ability to afford merely our present living standards. This dilemma needs to be understood by all who are dissatisfied with our present standards and want to improve them, whether by income increases or otherwise. The plain fact is that there will be no winding down of inflation, and no correction of our excessive balance of payments deficit if we do not accept the need to forego improvements until we can afford, out of currently produced income, what we are now consuming on the basis of foreign borrowing. These considerations should guide our approach to the question of income increases over the period immediately ahead.

I urged yesterday that energy conservation had an important contribution to make to reducing our external deficit. I argued, reasonably I hope, that this contribution would not be achieved by exhortation alone, however necessary education and exhortation may be to bring the public to a proper realisation of the scale of the crisis. I believe that physical controls over private consumption of petrol and oil are necessary and urgently desirable. The potential for Government management of the economy through fiscal, monetary and incomes policies tends to be exaggerated. This means that in any area in which management can be made effective, and particularly in an area where it can be made effective without any serious domestic consequences, the Government ought to act. I do not see how we can be complacent about unnecessary expenditure of £100 million or more on petrol and oil. Every day we are adding at least £2 million to the foreign borrowing we incur unnecessarily to finance wasteful consumption of these imported commodities.

Both the Government and the Central Bank have declared themselves against active deflationary policies this year and various reasons have been adduced in support of that attitude. We are committed to a gradualist approach to remedying the defects in our economy. That approach, while reasonable, always runs the risk of being overturned by events. So I would put in a plea against any attempt on the part of Government or the Central Bank to make a virtue of not being positively deflationary. The plain fact is that we cannot continue for long to shore up our living standards by accumulating foreign debt at the rate of £700 million a year.

I suppose the question must be asked whether it would be appropriate in present circumstances to adopt expansionary policies. We have heard of recession. I think there is some danger of talking ourselves into an even worse view of world recession than actually applies at the moment.

The recent report of the Bank for International Settlements does acknowledge that there is an incipient recession in the United States and also a recession in the United Kingdom, but it went on, with uncharacteristic optimism, to say that the returns for the first quarter of this year show that the economies of continental western Europe and Japan are still making good progress. So let us not generate too deep a gloom about world conditions. In any case, whatever they may be, we have to take them for granted and it is my view, in regard to the question of expansionary policies, that any major expansion of home demand whether by increases in income or expenditure would only make our situation worse by impairing our competitiveness, creating more redundancies, increasing the external deficit and putting more strain on the Irish pound. As I see it, the basic need is for restraint in incomes if employment is to be protected during this difficult period of low growth, high inflation, heavy external deficits and a rather depressed external environment. Incomes restraint holds the key to renewed growth of export-generated output and employment.

Real improvement in the public finances, and indeed in the economy generally, depends on current public expenditure being kept severely in check, on moderate rates of income increase prevailing from mid-year on, and on the eventual development of a more favourable world situation. Because, however, the external improvement may first occur as a response to recession, taking the form perhaps of a slow-down in commodity price increases or a lowering of interest rates, it seems to me that it will be all the more necessary for us to ensure that we have competitive entry to world markets by keeping our own costs down and increasing our productivity.

It makes no sense whatever to clamour for more jobs and at the same time insist on pay being increased by more than the country can afford with consequent loss of competitiveness and of jobs. There is a disastrous contradiction in such an approach. The best way of preserving and increasing employment at present is by a policy of restraint in incomes which safeguards and improves our competitiveness.

I let the Government off lightly a moment ago about not being positively deflationary. As Senator FitzGerald remarked this morning, Government financial policy can be exerted on the side of tax reliefs as well as on the side of expenditure. I would like to repeat that, as I said yesterday and several times before, I for one am uncomfortable about the extent of the income tax and rates reliefs granted to the better off, including myself, in recent years at a time when the State was financing these reliefs by running into debt. I am glad that Senator FitzGerald and also Senator Robinson spoke in the same vein this morning.

I have mentioned interest rates and they have been the subject of much comment in recent months, some of it objective and well balanced as was the Minister's own contribution to the Dáil debate on 16 April, and some of it not so well informed. We are in a situation in which national expenditure exceeds current national production by some £700 million, a situation therefore in which borrowing needs greatly exceed the supply of domestic savings. Given that degree of imbalance, how could anyone expect interest rates to be other than high? A heavy demand for funds is pressing on a short supply. Given, indeed, the high rate of inflation, it is a mercy that interest rates are not higher. Borrowers have been profiting for a long time from the readiness of savers to accept negative real rates of interest. Those who want greater competition between the banks had better recognise that, when it comes, it may well drive up both deposit and lending rates, even if it makes for a more rational situation. I was not among those who, at the time of our entry to the European Monetary System, counted on its automatically bringing us lower rates of interest. Neither, to be fair, were the then Taoiseach and Minister for Finance who spared no pains to emphasise the antecedent conditions, the disciplines in regard to incomes, costs and public expenditure and borrowing, which we would have to observe in order to lower both inflation and interest rates. I myself kept pointing to the experience of Denmark which, because those disciplines were not observed, had to devalue periodically to stay within the "snake" and where, because of high inflation at home and vast external borrowing needs. interest rates had for some years been about 9 per cent above the German level. I looked at it recently and the difference is still about 6 per cent.

High interest rates are, of course, a most regrettable brake on new investment and an impediment even to the maintenance of existing scales of output, so it is natural that envious eyes should be cast on the lower level of interest rates in less inflationary economies like Germany. Like little Jack Homer, we sit in our corner; we want to stick in our thumb and pull out this particular plum—to have the benefits without the costs. Calls have been made for the Government to carry or subsidise the exchange risk on borrowings in foreign currencies and in fact the Government, through the Industrial Credit Company and the Agricultural Credit Corporation, have already assumed the exchange risk on an aggregate of 100 million of foreign currency borrowings by these agencies for re-lending to industrial and farming clients.

Although the Government have been generous in this respect it would be unwise for anybody to make light of the risk involved. The lower interest rates expressed in, say, Deutschemarks may be transformed by exchange rate changes into surprisingly heavy burdens in Irish currency which taxpayers will have to shoulder even if borrowers are relieved. I will give a few examples to illustrate this.

For a Government ten-year loan, 1970-1980, the actual rate of interest payable in Ireland was 12.6 per cent. The money was available in Deutschemarks at 7.3 per cent, apparently 5¼ per cent cheaper. Over that ten-year period, however, the number of Deutschemarks obtainable for an Irish pound dropped from 8.855 to 3.698. Allowing for this exchange rate change, the effective cost of Deutschemark borrowing would have been about 17 per cent per annum as against 12.6.

A three month borrowing at 10 per cent per annum in a foreign currency could become an effective 31 per cent per annum if the Irish pound fell in value by 5 per cent or an effective 54 per cent per annum if it fell by 10 per cent. These figures illustrate the importance of taking out forward cover even though it adds significantly to the effective rate of interest.

There is obviously need for caution in undertaking exchange risks. The interest saving may prove quite illusory and indeed turn into a heavy loss. Not only for this reason but also because it seems inconsistent with firm control of the money supply, I find myself out of sympathy with the Central Bank's invitation to private firms to supplement their credit availability at home by recourse to foreign borrowing. This may help to shore up our external reserves but this itself is an illusion since there is an equivalent, and fairly short-term, external liability. My view is that whatever foreign borrowing has to be done, and it should be less than it is, can best and most cheaply be done by or on behalf of the State. The State is the ultimate guarantor of repayment of such borrowings. It cannot afford ever to have the nation's credit standing undermined.

The subject of bank interest rates prompted some public criticism of the level of bank profits. I am a director of a bank and I do not intend to speak for it or for any other commercial bank on this occasion. The Minister for Finance has already adequately disposed of the argument that bank profits are excessive. All I would like to add as a former Governor of the Central Bank, in whose term of office the Central Bank assumed responsibility for monitoring the profits of commercial banks, is that it exercises close supervision of banking profits and that over the whole period of supervision to date the profits of the Associated Banks have not, on average, exceeded the adequacy standards specified by the Central Bank. Indeed, they are probably somewhat short of this standard at present. I have no doubt they will conform to any standards set by the Central Bank in future.

One should objectively recognise that, during the seventies, the profits distributed to bank shareholders barely kept up in real terms with the growth of the economy. The much greater proportion of profits which were not distributed helped significantly to expand the banks' lending capacity and but for them credit would now be even scarcer and dearer. It is largely because of their efforts to hold down the general level of interest rates that the Associated Banks have been losing market share. They have also been the sole providers throughout the community of a money transmission service supplied at a fraction of its true cost.

I mentioned Denmark earlier as a country not too dissimilar from Ireland whose experience is worth noting as a headline or as a warning. We are akin to Denmark as regards foreign borrowing, inflation and interest rates. A few months ago the then Danish Minister for Finance described his country as "heading towards an abyss". The Governor of the Danish Central Bank, Dr. Hoffmeyer has been equally forthright in his warnings. He identified successive stages of disintegration if Denmark were to go on borrowing at the present pace. It is salutary to recall these stages, as he presented them in an article last January. I summarise what he said as follows:

First Stage: Freedom of manoeuvre is lost; the rapid growth of foreign indebtedness destroys freedom of action in monetary policy. High interest rates have to be maintained. Business and industry has to be encouraged to raise loans abroad.

Second Stage: International respect and influence are lost. In his words "It is frustrating to see Denmark being regarded more and more as an economically irresponsible nation".

Third Stage: It becomes difficult to borrow commercially. The amounts grow smaller and the interest rates higher.

Fourth Stage: Assistance has to be sought from international agencies such as the IMF or the EEC. In either event, a reform programme approved by the political authorities governing the international agency has to be adopted and followed.

Fifth Stage: Creditors will form a consortium to insist on a scheme of net repayment of debts at the expense not only of external reserves but of marked deterioration of social standards.

Sixth Stage: The welfare state and political stability disintegrate.

Let us not ask at what stage either Denmark or Ireland is at present—the Danes say they are at Stage Three—but rather recognise the need for not slipping any further down the slope. Denmark is a partner country in the EEC with much higher per capita incomes than ours —indeed, the highest incomes in the EEC. That such alarm should be registered in public in Denmark by responsible authorities should make us all sit up. Our recent budget has arrested a dangerous trend but we are still cliffhanging and support is urgently needed, mainly by way of incomes restraint, but also by non-inflationary fiscal and monetary policies and by substantial energy savings. As I said earlier, the way out of the present impasse of stagnation and inflation is not by expanding domestic demand but by gearing ourselves to a world demand which though not as buoyant as it once was, is still growing, even in these days of recession in some major countries. If we can become more competitive by keeping costs in check and improving productivity we can continue to enlarge our share of export markets and thus renew the growth of output and jobs.

It seems to be my fortune or perhaps my misfortune to follow Senator Whitaker on debates on Finance and Appropriation Bills but I am very glad to have the benefit of his views before I say my few words. Listening to a distinguished speaker like Senator Whitaker emphasises something which I believe affects us all when we are considering a Finance Bill, that is, that it would be very desirable and very beneficial if this Bill came before us having been prepared, not only by the Minister and his Departmental advisers but also that there would have been an input from a range of experts seconded into the administration of the country from industry, banking and from key areas of economic and social groupings in society.

At least some of the problems we run into and which we discuss on Finance Bills are caused by an excessive rigidity in structures of government and of administration. I should like to see a more flexible interchange between the private sector and the Government and civil service than exists at the moment. The contributions of Senators to the Finance Bill, while extremely valuable, and coming from very different sectors of society in set-piece debates like this do not go far enough to create an interchange between the different sections of society. This is by no means to denigrate for one moment the work of the civil service or of the Minister and his Department. It is purely to say that in a society as small as ours, a more flexible interchange would be extremely valuable.

On a Finance Bill we discuss taxation and taxation decisions that have been made recently. Indeed, as has been shown by massive street demonstrations in recent years, taxation is a most dangerous and difficult tightrope which Ministers have to tread between, on the one hand, equity in the contribution of earners to the running of the country and, on the other, to ensuring that there will not be a killing of incentive on the part of the workers.

It seems to me that there is a suspicion abroad, and many of us will have our own views as to whether it is well founded, that the present trends in taxation as exemplified in the Finance Bill seem to veer more towards pacifying the powerful and well off in society than in moving towards a fair redistribution of the nation's income. I was interested in statements made by the Minister which seem to make a slightly despairing reference to the inevitability that under our income system the better off remain the better off no matter what one does with the system. To accept that this is so and must remain so seems to me to be a colossal failure on the part of the Minister and of the Government. If the present income tax system does lead to those with the most getting still more, obviously fire brigade measures are needed in a society like this where the weak are extremely weak at the moment. Governments must take other measures to offset that gain by the better off, the gain which was set out by Senator FitzGerald, in some of the figures he gave. I do not believe for one moment that even the people who found themselves better off as a result of the budget were uniformly delighted with that situation. A very high proportion of those people who are articulate and communicative, as was mentioned earlier, are people with a very sincere concern for the less well off, for the inarticulate, unorganised sections at the bottom of the heap. I found it extremely encouraging in a bad situation to talk to some of these people. I remember one particular conversation with a person who had gained most from the budget. He said that having done his sums he reckoned he was £8,000 better off after the budget than he had been before it. He was made uncomfortable by this. I spoke also to a lot of other people who were deeply worried about this trend.

When Senator FitzGerald referred to the communicators, as forming part of those finding themselves better off, he may have done less than justice to quite a large section of those people who are frustrated by these developments, people who are puzzled, to put it mildly, by a Government who cry doom and gloom and appeal for industrial relations peace and on the other hand soothe the Financial worries of the better off. The adjustment of such anomalies which add more income to the better off has to be faced up to by the concept of taxes of a different nature. I do not believe that I will not make many friends when I talk about the concept of wealth tax which is a political hot potato in this country if ever there was one. There must be provision made to even up the score so that people who have incomes of £20,000 and £25,000 a year will in fact have to contribute to the running of this country proportionately to their incomes. If something is not done on those lines people will get a very distinct idea that injustice is going to be perpetuated for ever.

In the middle of an apparent crisis which has been so well exposed by Senator Whitaker, no matter how wealthy we are, we are paying no rates on our houses and we are running around in our second cars tax free. There is a very distinct uncomfortable feeling among a lot of people that there is something seriously wrong and they say "My goodness, there is money here in Ireland". People say there is money somewhere when they see auctions where items are bought and sold at enormous prices but the vast majority of people have no idea where that money is and how it can stay there. Having said that, I do not want for one moment to talk about crippling the economy of the country by having very high rates of tax. I am against rates of taxation which will be, as we all know, counterproductive. I have said before on Finance Bills and I think it bears repeating that if at a 60 per cent highest rate of taxation everybody who is liable for that tax is paying it, the situation would be vastly improved. Again I have said before that Governments should find the courage to face up to the chartered accountant-lawyer axis which develops and creates schemes to help business people to avoid taxation by very sophisticated schemes.

There should be extreme penalties for the designing and creation of such schemes. The penalties should extend to the people who design them as well as to the people for whose benefit they are designed. That kind of draconian approach to tax avoidance is absolutely essential.

To sum up what I wanted to say on that point, ways must be found to offset the gains of the better off under this budget. If it involves some kind of wealth tax, so be it, the beneficiaries of this kind of bonanza are in fact unhappy enough about having gained such a bonanza.

Business suspended at 1.20 p.m. and resumed at 3 p.m.

I had been expressing a view that there is among many of the beneficiaries of the unexpected bonanza for the well off in the last budget, a genuine social consciousness and an awareness that such a bonanza is not right. However, there are obviously the selfish few who have the philosophy which might be summed up in the expression "I am all right, Jack". It is fair to suggest that we might reflect on how much or how little the Minister and his Government are in thrall to that selfish well-organised group who are among other things past masters in the art of public relations and political lobbying.

When I was speaking before the break I may have given inadvertently the impression that I was intending to classify today's perfectly law abiding citizens who use the services of tax consultants to find ways of minimising their tax payments perfectly within the law. That was not my intention. What I was trying to convey to the House is the concern of the ordinary PAYE taxpayer about the industry, the big business, which stay one jump ahead of the law until the Dáil and Seanad meet and pass a Finance Bill which closes the loophole they have been using. An example of the kind of scheme I am talking about is the happily defunct scheme, certificates of deposits; somebody who had a lot of money would deposit it in a bank and get a certificate that it had been deposited, the bank would pay interest for the six months after the deposit was made, the certificate was sold five or five-and-a-half months after the deposit was made, the seller was not liable to tax, the buyer got the six months interest and he was not liable either for tax. That was a scheme designed specifically to get around one loophole in the tax law.

I would like to suggest in the context of this Finance Bill that we should give the Revenue Commissioners more power. We should avoid a lot of the cat and mouse game which goes on at the moment by enabling the Revenue Commissioners to vet schemes which would be brought to their attention by the designers, to look through these schemes and say whether these are schemes which would be accepted by the Revenue Commissioners as commercially proper viable schemes using the tax provisions for the purposes for which they were intended, or whether they are purely and simply schemes designed to avoid tax. Unless we progress to the stage of having consultation with the Revenue Commissioners before these schemes are designed and put into operation, we are chasing our tails each year and in the process the Exchequer is losing vast sums of money.

The only other detail of the Finance Bill I want to mention is the provision dealing with married persons' taxation where both spouses are earning. I would agree with Senator FitzGerald about the propriety and desirability, or otherwise, of the Judiciary telling the Legislature our business. The road which ended up in the Supreme Court which made the decision which affected so profoundly the budget and the Finance Bill was an extremely long and hard one. The journey was started because of the failure of successive Ministers for Finance to listen to the representations of those who felt they were unjustly treated under this law. It was more than a failure of Ministers, particularly the previous Minister, to listen to representations, it was the outright hostility and name-calling which went on which greeted the legitimate representations of those who knew they were being unjustly treated.

The reason why it went to the Supreme Court was that these people felt it would never end up in a budget or in a Finance Bill for the reason that the group of persons involved were not sizeable enough to warrant a change of heart by the Government. They were not the kind of minority big enough to lobby Fianna Fáil backbenchers and make them worry about where the votes would go in the next election. They knew that they were quite a small group. There was a definite campaign in the newspapers vilifying unfortunate women who went out to work, describing them as a danger to the country and so on.

It was in that atmosphere that those people felt that the only legitimate way for them to proceed was to go to the courts, which they did successfully.

An initiative was then taken by the Government in the budget and in this Finance Bill where we have the concept of income splitting. The Government went some way further than the Supreme Court required them to do. I welcome that whole-heartedly. In the end it was a very expensive business. The figure of £220 million is what the income splitting concept is costing. At a time when the country is apparently sliding down an oily slope into severe financial straits, that is a sickening amount of money.

That decision did not break out of the sky one fine day as a new idea, as a revolution that had to be coped with overnight. The Minister and the Government had ample warning that this would happen. I have to refer back to a similar situation, the equal pay crisis, which blew up suddenly. The cloud had been gathering for years, it was ignored, then the cloud burst and the Government had no umbrella. It is a sorry chapter of ignoring, of stalling, thinking it will go away if you do not think about it. Then the worst happens and we shout it is too expensive, we cannot afford it. This could have been done gradually over the years. When the Minister finally said he would begin to do it gradually over the years it was too late.

The final words in the Supreme Court judgment are interesting and we should all reflect on them as we look at this Finance Bill and the very important feature about income splitting. The fundamental decisions of the Supreme Court over the last few years, the ones that have really rocked preconceived ideas in our society, have been ones that have either been initiated by or have had almost complete relevance to the status of women. This final one follows in that line and is a reflection of this almost totally all-male body which are the Dáil and Seanad. Their failure to have the wit to listen to the women of Ireland on the question of the taxation of married couples. The representatives of the women of Ireland were dismissed as radicals, unrepresentative, as dangerous and selfish.

On the question of income splitting as we find it in the Finance Bill, and the £220 million that this is costing, we must remember that the generous reliefs which are given to married couples where only one of them is earning are reliefs of course which are given to the earning person, because the Minister cannot in his taxation Bill be giving money to people who have not got an income to be taxed. The vast majority of Irish marriages are marriages where the husband goes out to work and the wife works at home. We must remember that the proportion of that £220 million which is going to this kind of marriage goes into the pocket of the husband. Let us not be under an illusion that it is automatically going to make all married women in Ireland wealthy. Luckily, most marriages appear, and I hope they are, stable. They are a sharing of partnerships, the way we would like all marriages to be. However, responsible people estimate that a great many marriages in this country—the last figure I heard was 40 per cent—are not what might be described as ideally happy marriages. In a situation like that one partner is financially strong and one partner has nothing, and the partner who has nothing is the person who does not earn.

I am not saying that this Finance Bill can change that kind of problem but it is something we should bear in mind when we are talking about £220 million being given out generously to the women who stay at home, because we were told by. the Minister that the Government were extremely concerned in this Finance Bill and in the budget, not to undermine the position of the woman who was a fulltime home maker and who was doing this incredibly valuable role that the Constitution gives to her. We were told that income splitting was being introduced in order to signify and indicate to us the value the Government placed on that woman's role. By giving the male earners of the country an income tax relief because they are married to somebody does not amount to changing the status of the woman fulltime homemaker. I hope that when the Minister is dealing with his colleagues in the Cabinet he would bear in mind that there are other Ministers who have a great deal of responsibility in this area.

I do not intend to detain the House any longer on the Finance Bill. It seems to me that at this time the very weakest in society are desperately in need of a lot of financial help which must come from the very strongest and which at the moment is not being taken from the strongest to give to the weakest.

This is a very important debate because it gives us an opportunity to refer to the economy in general and to economic policy. A number of contributions have been made, notably some critical ones by Senators FitzGerald and Whitaker. I could not let the opportunity of this debate go by without commenting on what they said as well as making a few general points.

Senator Whitaker said that we are in a morass. Senator FitzGerald made some disparaging comments about the manifesto. I will deal with aspects of the manifesto in a moment, but I would not see that we are in a morass. We may be at a watershed in the development of our economy, and the policies that are to be followed will determine the health, happiness and wealth of our grandchildren. I have no panaceas with which to provide instant solutions or which would indicate to us the direction we should take from the watershed, but I would be very worried about the following criteria which may have been useful and may have applied in times gone by but may not be helpful in these modern times. In these times this small country has joined a larger economic body, which is the EEC, in a particular kind of partnership. There are certain commitments from the EEC as a whole and from the larger countries within that grouping to help the smaller countries to expand and develop. This is the dilemma that we find ourselves in: are we going to run our economy in the same way, using the same assumptions, as the larger countries within the EEC run theirs—I am thinking of countries like Germany, France and the UK—or will we be seen for what we are, which is, a small open economy hoping for some help from the others to catch up and to achieve what is declared EEC policy, that is, a convergence of our economy with the economies of other countries?

It may be that the steps to be taken to bring that about are not the steps to be taken, say, to rectify an imbalance in a larger country. It is quite clear that here is a country with a growing population, with the growth rate that we have, with a large percentage of younger people—the Minister pointed out that some 50 per cent of the population is under 25 years of age as compared to 36 per cent for other EEC countries. What is even more important is that the cohorts of the age groups in the mid-teens are nearly 50 per cent higher than the cohorts of the age groups in the mid-twenties which means that there will be even a greater bulge of population coming through into the mid-twenty age group over the next five or six years.

The challenge to the economic policy makers is to Find answers. There are one or two things which are militating against Finding the answers. I would be coming down very heavily against the whole question of income increases in the unexposed sector of our economy. We cannot afford to pay income increases in line with the inflation rate increase in that part of our economy where there are no productivity increases. In the unexposed area where there is no measurement of these productivity increases we cannot just go blindly ahead with wage and salary increases that assume a certain growth in the Consumer Price Index. That is a mad policy. I have said that during the last ten years, but we have been living with it year in year out. If we are anywhere near the morass that Senator Whitaker spoke about it is because of that policy. I do not think economists are giving us the answers.

Some people say that we are in the position we were in in 1974-75. There are similarities, but what we do not have now which existed in the 1974-75 period are healthy price increases in agriculture. When industrial expansion was running at 3 per cent, agricultural expansion was near 20 per cent, so we were in a better position at that time to move forward. That contributes to our watershed.

In that period the Government decided as a means of getting over an undoubtedly severe recession to give a fiscal stimulus, to stimulate the economy. That was done, and the question that is before us now is do we do this or do we not do it because our balance of payments is adverse and we are worried about the level of our reserves? This is a fundamental question and I accept it.

We are complaining about our foreign borrowing which is going up. Senator Whitaker gave us some figures to indicate the level of the problem. From sources that I had access to recently I see that net factor payments by us abroad as a result of borrowing was £50 million in 1979 and may be £100 million in 1980 and might go up by £50 million every year if we keep up the same rate. It is a serious problem. Is it a serious problem in the context of the EEC? We do not say that it is as serious a problem to borrow at home as to borrow abroad. If you borrow money at home then in effect the Government are taking funds out of the hands of people who might otherwise spend it on consumer goods and in that way there is a moderating influence in the economy. whereas if you borrow from abroad you bring the money into the economy from outside and it is stimulated. You widen the money base. I recognise that. But would it not be possible for us to think more in terms of the EEC? Is it not possible to say that as long as we keep our borrowings within the EEC and as long as we are achieving growth we should continue to expand the growth in our gross national product. We must invest in productive enterprise; by productive, I mean manufacturing industry, to provide jobs. We have no choice, otherwise people might as well leave the country and find somewhere else to work, which they did for many years because there was somewhere to go. Today there are not very many places to go because other countries are having the same employment problems. Will it not be possible to think of it in EEC terms; to bring us through these negative cycles, these recessions, for the EEC to help Ireland to come through those recessions in order that we can re-achieve this convergence? I do not think it should be beyond the wit of the economists to come up with a suitable answer.

On the question of private consumption, I would agree that we are spending too much money on imported food products, on imported leisure goods. But, as Senator FitzGerald implied, to think that this is due to the fact that somebody wrote a manifesto and raised expectations is so ridiculous that I am not inclined to give time to putting up the contrary argument. However, one figure will bring the point home. I have figures for 1977 that the consumption per person in Ireland in dollars was 1,900 compared with 2,600 in the United Kingdom, in Germany, 4,600 and Switzerland 6,000. How can one expect ordinary individuals to overlook that gap? People in Ireland watch television and see how people in other countries live; individuals who go on the odd holiday abroad, to a football match and so on, see what these people are doing and what they consume. That is where their expectations are raised. We are far behind and that is what I mean when I say that the EEC is committed to helping us to catch up. Therefore, seeking to depress the consumer expectation seems to me unreasonable in the light of the barrage of communications which keep on telling people to consume more. If we are committed to economic expansion well then obviously the consumption rate will go up. To say that this is something terrible or sinful and is stimulated by the Fianna Fáil manifesto, is a dry concept, whoever it came from.

I will take one or two areas for comment, first the area of employment. There seems to be an idea around that the Fianna Fáil manifesto was about providing jobs in Government Departments or in the public service; that this is a new thing and that we are paying for it out of foreign borrowing. I have to draw attention to the fact that in the earlier part of this decade public service employment tended to increase by something like 6,000 people per annum. It only increased at the same order in the last few years during which this administration has been in office. In fact, in 1974-75 job losses in manufacturing industry were of the order of 27,000. So any jobs created in that period over and above those that were brought about by the IDA—which were of the order of 14,000—any jobs that helped to keep up the employment, were jobs created in the public service, and to think the growth in employment in the last few years is due to public service again is wide of the mark. In fact, jobs created in manufacturing industry in 1977 and 1978 were of the order of 22,000 compared to job losses of 14,000. That is where the employment increase came from. Employment increase in the public service was a natural increase of the same order as the increase that took place during the period of the Coalition. Can we bury that one once and for all, that the manifesto was about creating jobs in the public service which was out of step with the normal rate of job creation in the public service in the previous years? If I hear that one again in the House I want somebody to tell me where my facts are wrong.

The terrible pain of it is that the graph for employment has been going up regularly and consistently over the last few years, and it is only in the last few months that it has turned in the other direction. It is also clear that there is a fall-back in the investment rate and we know that in the immediate past agricultural output has not been great. It would be one of the sad outcomes of what we are about as legislators, and what governments are about in governing, if that graph should go down badly again, if we cannot redress it. That is why I am so concerned with policies which are only talking about balancing the budget. While I recognise that it must be talked about, we must recognise that a country which cannot provide jobs for a growing population of the kind we have and an increasing proporion of young people, will be failing in the management of its affairs. Those people in the economy who blindly and selfishly ask for a larger share of what is available for themselves, without keeping in mind this fundamental problem, will let us in for a very dim, dismal future.

I will talk now about the taxation side of the policy. We had many accusations about the trend in this country towards too much direct taxation and I wonder have we finally got it across that the revenue generated by indirect taxation is a much higher percentage than in other EEC countries, that we are not ahead of the posse in our level of direct taxation. Recently, with the adjustments in the Bill, we have added to the amount of indirect taxation. If people are in favour of indirect taxation, we are going the right way. Where things get a bit difficult is that there are certain individuals who are beginning to suffer taxation at a higher taxation rate; they are getting into the marginal bands and that is annoying to somebody who has not been accustomed to paying tax at that rate. That is an educational process, because, as the wealth per person increases then, as sure as taxation is required to finance public services and infrastructural development, taxation will appear at higher marginal rates.

I am concerned on the taxation side about the degree to which industrial oil has been taxed. I want to draw the attention of the Minister to it in public. because our future must rest on an increasing expansion of manufacturing industry. The CII report that the extra costs on industrial oils being carried by industry is in the order of £40 million. This is something that the Minister could keep an eye on in the future because as our industry comes under comparative pressures, especially through income increases which are out of line with those in competing countries, this will become a more serious matter.

The construction industry comes under pressure whenever there is a need to take the heat out of an economy, and at the moment the construction industry is quite seriously depressed in terms of some of its main measures, things like cement sales and sales of builders' providers and the rate at which house building in the private sector is starting. There are some problems there, and this is something which comes up time and time again. I have written and published a number of articles about this over the years, but one of the difficulties is the availability of funds in a time of recession, and availability of funds when, for instance, the building societies are short of funds. This is showing up at the moment. When the EMS was set up, a lot of foreign money came back home and found a resting place in the building societies. That is no longer the case; it was a once-off move.

I have been very interested—and I have spoken to the Minister about this—in trying to encourage some new forms of house mortgaging groups to be set up, particularly those that might be in a position to attract other sources of funds like pension funds or certain banking funds that might be available, that could not be put into long-term housing commitments. For instance, at the moment we know that the commercial banks support housing to a significant degree, something in the order of £40 or £50 million. Mortgages given for housing is long-term money, and banks do not like committing themselves to long-term money. Where it would be possible to get them to commit medium-term money into an intermediate institution which would, in some way, roll over the five-year medium-term money, we might possibly get some more banking money into house mortgages and in that way increase the level of funds available.

I am not saying this is the only way but it is one way and to make it possible for some of the tax concessions that the banks now get to encourage them to take part in house mortgaging, it would be important for those concessions to be brought forward into a Finance Bill. I am publicly stating this because I feel strongly about it and I would like at some stage if the Minister might find it possible to include it in the Bill, because if we do not find ways of channelling other sources of funds, like pension funds, which are a huge growth area in savings, and find a way of keeping a lot of that money within the State, operating in areas which are a big social benefit like housing, then the building societies will not be able to provide the funds. I make that plea to the Minister.

In addition to talking about tax, there is one area which is a pet hobby horse and it is slightly less serious than the point I have been making, but I think my colleagues in the House will recognise what I am at.

While involved in the recent by-election campaign I was talking to some young people in Cork city in a certain establishment and they indicated that, if I wanted to look for support I should visit certain discos, that they were packed with young people and that it would be a good thing to do. Despite the fact that I see myself as an experienced political canvasser, but a little abashed that I might be taken for a middle-aged roué, I asked these younger people if they would come with me and I visited these discos. What struck me when I got in and chatted to people was that there were some thousands of young people in these places—which were operating under a wine licence—up to the early hours of the morning. As somebody who is convinced of the need for the "Buy Irish" campaign, I could not help thinking that we licence people to drink a product which is not produced in this country. It is not a wine licence, it is an exclusion of an Irish product, beer. On the revenue and excise sides I draw the Minister's attention to the fact that we are, in some deliberate way, keeping out our own product in a situation where, as I said earlier, one of our great problems is consumer expenditure on imported products. I have nothing against a wine licence, I like wine, but I also like Irish beer and I do not see any reason why our young girls and boys would not have nicely bottled beer, just as attractive as the foreign products, and let them drink that as well, give them the choice.

At various functions that I go to from time to time—I think I have said something like this in the House before when we talked about the "Buy Irish" campaign—it gets my goat to see this inferiority complex we have, where people will almost automatically say, "I will have brandy" or, "I will have a scotch" or, when a meal is coming to an end and the waiter comes around, and says, "Will you have a brandy or a port, sir?" and does not think of throwing in something like, "Would you have an Irish Mist, sir?" We do not seem to have come to terms with ourselves as a nation. We have grown up and our own product is something that we should be proud of and we should push first. I am not—let me reiterate this—advocating that we keep out the foreign product but that we have more pride in our own and buy it first.

This brings me to the area of incomes policy which I mentioned earlier. I am absolutely convinced, from thinking and writing about this now for over a decade, that we cannot pay ourselves the wage and salary increases that we have been paying in the past, based on assumptions about what the future level of the consumer price index or inflation is going to be. It sickens me to hear, in particular, some leaders of British-based unions in this country taking their guide from across the water and saying that inflation in the coming year is going to be 22 per cent, 21 per cent, whatever else it is, so we will now put in our claim for that amount at a time when the oil bill in this country—here I am in full accord with Senator Whitaker—has gone up by something like £300 million, £400 million or, £500 million.

Looking at the month by month trade figures last year, it was heartbreaking to see £30 million extra over the previous year paid for oil when we know that the volume of usage at the moment has gone down slightly. In the middle of all that we say we must look for a 20 per cent increase.

We must tighten our belts. I heard on the news today a leader of one of the public service unions saying that they are fed up listening to public figures giving out about income increases and the need for income restraint, that they are going to take a tougher line and, if necessary, industrial action. Are we not absolutely codding ourselves to give increases of that order which are financed by borrowing, if there is a shortfall in current expenditure in the unexposed part of our economy, where people are working, where they are not subject to competition, have guaranteed jobs, pensions which are index-linked, and who say they are not going to suffer any cutback and let somebody else pay for the oil increases. If we do not generate output we cannot finance extra oil costs and if we are tightening our belts so that our GNP is not going to grow, there is no way that we can give increases of that kind. It is interesting that the public service pay, plus the social welfare costs every year, are of the order of 70 per cent of the public current expenditure, 70 per cent in public service pay and social welfare costs so any increase in borrowings for budget deficits are being used to finance that kind of expenditure. Clearly where it is 70 per cent you might as well be saying you are financing increases by increased borrowing. The folly of having a formula that assumes that the inflation rate is going to go to something and then deciding before it happens you are going to put your wages up, means that you are determining the inflation rate. Therefore, I propose, as I did many times in the past, that if we want to get things into line, we must have a formula which says our income increases cannot be greater than the average of our competitors, particularly those within the EMS. If tightening our belts means anything, we have to say for a few years we cannot get income increases which are greater than the average of what other countries are getting. If you say to me, does that mean that we let other people decide what our income increases are, I would say yes. Let them decide what our income increases are and, in the meantime, get our economy right and get our operating levels and our operating structure right.

The difficulty we are having, is that while we agreed to go into the EMS—here we come back to what Senator Whitaker was saying—we agreed to adopt the EMS procedure, to become part of it, and our exchange rates have remained stable now for months. At the moment our currency within the EMS is quite strong and at the top of the band compared to others. Recently you may have seen that the Central Bank has agreed to release the punt to look after itself within the market, it is not going to correct it in terms of the central rate. Given all of that, we cannot be looking across at the UK where they have their own oil reserves, and an artifically strong currency and take our guidelines from them in terms of income policy. We can use them in the sense that they are an export market for us. We are competitive in that market at the moment because the punt is running at 90 per cent of sterling pound. The difficulty is that, because of the policies being adopted in the UK by Maggie Thatcher, the output of that country is down as well by some 4 per cent so that the market is not as strong.

I want to draw the Senator's attention to the fact that the British Prime Minister cannot be referred to in those terms.

How will I refer to her?

Acting Chairman

Mrs. Thatcher, or the British Prime Minister.

I said something else, did I? I withdraw that. I was thinking of the content, not the clothes. I want to come back to what Senator Whitaker said about interest rates and borrowings. Irish businessmen must take advantage of the opportunities made available to them by our belonging to the EMS. The idea was to make the exchange rates more stable between those currencies that entered the EMS. If one looks at the graphs, one sees they have all converged into that spread of 2½ per cent. We have debated before why people are not taking up loans at the lower interest rates that are available in the EMS. Senator Whitaker gave us an example where he pointed out what would happen if, for instance, we had borrowed deutschemarks at a certain time and how exposed that particular borrowing would have been. He selected deutschemarks. Why not select guilders? It is interesting to note that, if one looks back over two-and-a-half years, the movement in exchange rate between the punt and guilders did not change by more than 1 per cent. We are not saying that you blindly dive into this, neither do we always have to go to Germany. There are other choices.

Taking everything into account, particularly that our industrial sector must expand, that we did in the last few years provide a fiscal and investment stimulus to encourage greater expansion, I would be inclined to give serious consideration to the idea that there would be some guarantee for exchange rate losses if industry borrowed within the EMS currencies. Would it be possible for the Minister to partially cover it, to take a share in any loss that might occur? If the EMS scheme works, and it has been working over the last year and 15 months, no loss should occur, depending on how long the borrowing is taken for. Given that industries need, as the Director General of the Confederation said, working capital as well as fixed investment needs, then the borrowing would be short.

The trouble about stimulating investment to bring about industrial expansion is that, if you turn on the tap and then turn it off again, there is a big time lag before you can turn it back on again to bring it back positive. I am concerned at what I see in industry, that entrepreneurial flair that was coming into commercial activity in Ireland is having a little setback. Because of that I respectfully suggest to the Minister that he might consider a partial guarantee for the borrowing of foreign currencies that operate within the EMS, in particular with us, because that is what the whole thing is about.

We have a problem about borrowing. We have a problem about reserves. We have a problem about inflation. I sympathise with the efforts of the Government, the Department of Finance and the Central Bank to keep things in line. If income increases are not made to follow as its formula which is other than linking them to the consumer price index, my sons and their sons and daughters will be in for a hard time in the future. That is the way I see it. I do not see us in a morass. I see us at a take-off point. I see us at a watershed and future success depends on the economic policies that are followed. The Minister said in his speech, when he talked about young people and what is to be done for them, our grandchildren are not going to thank us for saying we were good accountants and bad economists.

I think Senator Hussey made reference to the difficulties that non-economists, or people who are not as competent in discussing the economy have, when one listens to speeches like those made by Senator Whitaker, Senator FitzGerald and Senator Mulcahy. I have never spoken on any of the White Papers or Green Papers on the economy that we had over the past two to three years. My primary reason for not doing so was because it was not an area of confidence as far as I was concerned. I also felt that, rather than engage in any political rivalry or political exchange, it was fair enough to let a Government proceed, a Government that was elected with such a majority as the last Government was, and see how it got on with its political programme. I cannot let this occasion pass without speaking. Inexperienced as I am in discussing matters of the economy, I have a knowledge of how people feel things, whether they are consumers, farmers or PAYE people. I would be neglectful if I did not give my views as to how people feel and react to the Finance Bill and to the budget.

I want to thank Senator Mulcahy for giving me the cue. I did not hear all of Senator FitzGerald's speech. I believe he made some reference to the manifesto creating high expectations. It is not the first time I have heard that. Listening to what Senator Mulcahy said, I must have read the wrong document in 1977. Consequently, while he was speaking I went to fetch a copy. I am not going to go into the promises in relation to jobs or the promises in relation to tax, the promises in relation to abolition of rates, car tax or even in relation to inflation. I want to make reference in the course of my contribution to some very pedestrian promises that were made, ones that I regard as of the highest importance to people like myself who are not versed in economic matters and who are now being asked and exhorted by the Government to exercise restraint. It is important that those people realise and appreciate that the Government are as concerned about prices, for example, and as concerned about equity and taxation, for example, as the Government and particularly the Minister for Finance say they are.

Before I refer to those sections of the manifesto, I want to comment on the type of tone that is inevitable amongst political parties when the boot is on the other foot, so to speak, and when one party are in Opposition and after an election there is a switch about. A few moments ago in the Dáil the Taoiseach said our economic prospects at present are overwhelmingly influenced by the price of oil. Yesterday in his statement the Minister referred to the economic background of the budget and said:

It seems certain that international growth this year and in 1981 will be markedly lower than last year, and lower still than the average of the sixties and early seventies. Oil price increases have almost stopped economic growth in its tracks; as recently as last week the OPEC countries have decided to raise prices once again. The oil-importing world as a whole is significantly poorer because of the movement of wealth to the oil-producing nations and our economic prospects are diminished as a consequence.

He referred later to budgetary policy and said:

Added to this was the necessity for domestic reasons to set about bringing greater balance to the public finances and to the balance of payments position. The remaining important budgetary parameter was the need to maintain momentum in the Government's pursuit of equity in the taxation system.

We all know that oil prices as a problem did not commence post-1977. The worst and most traumatic belt that we had was in 1973-74. In the Fianna Fáil election manifesto of 1977 there did not appear to be quite the same recognition of that fact as there is now a couple of years after they assumed office and months after problems arose in relation to oil price increases. The Fianna Fáil election manifesto discussing the economy described the real crisis on page 5:

Unemployment has soared to record levels. There are 160,000 people out of work and no jobs for young people leaving schools and colleges. We have suffered the worst inflation in the EEC. Prices have gone up by almost 100% since the Coalition took office. The country has been plunged into debt at a phenomenal rate. The interest on these extra debts is costing £8 weekly for every household in the country.

I did not hear the Minister or Senator Mulcahy refer to what the cost per week for every household in the country is at present to service our national debt. Perhaps they can be forgiven for that. It is important that we consider the equity the Minister speaks about in relation to the fiscal or taxation aspect of his budget in the context of what this party said before they achieved Government a couple of years ago. There are other aspects in relation to prices and farmers income tax to which I will return.

I want at least to set the tone right. Senator Mulcahy may suggest that Senator FitzGerald was incorrect and was misleading the House when he referred to the high expectations set by Fianna Fáil in their 1977 election manifesto. That is the background to all of the promises they made. There is no reference to oil price problems. There is no reference to external factors in relation to inflation. When those people campaigned in 1977, and when present Cabinet Ministers, then in Opposition, made their contributions on television, they never recognised those problems. Not only that, but they did not exist and inflation was Coalition-made.

I was talking about consumer expenditure.

I did not interrupt Senator Mulcahy despite the fact that I was extraordinarily tempted to. You made a very moderate speech. I did not have the benefit of hearing you in 1977 but I am sure you did not recognise many of the problems.

Please speak through the Chair.

When we listen to exhortations for restraint from Government Ministers now, and from Senator Mulcahy, perhaps people will be more likely to accept them as real and more likely to believe in them and to accept them if they felt that there was more truth from that party in 1977 and indeed when they were in Opposition before then. I am sorry the Minister, Deputy O'Kennedy, is not here. I suppose Members of the Seanad do not have geographical constituencies like Members of the Dáil but the Minister and I are from the same constituency and I certainly sympathise with him at the moment. He has a very difficult job. It is unfortunate that any one Minister of the Government must carry the can, so to speak. One Minister has already lost his job. The can got too heavy for him to carry. There are some reports in The Irish Times today about him coming back. It is a difficult job for the Minister for Finance. I recognise the difficulties Mr. O'Kennedy has. I am sorry he is not here because I should like to wish him well in his job.

Acting Chairman

May I draw the Senator's attention to the fact that I glanced at the Standing Orders and he should refer to the Minister as the Minister for Finance?

I am sure the records of the House will show that I referred to the Minister as the Minister rather than Mr. O'Kennedy. One of the most extraordinary things about the budget, if I say so, was the belief amongst very many people, including myself, in its immediate aftermath, that there were great benefits in it for most of us. People who were income earners were receiving the benefits of the changes in the income tax system and, they believed, receiving substantial benefits in this context. I know the Minister for Finance regards many of the changes as of Government origin. I will accept the greater part of that. We should not forget the Supreme Court decision, or the fact that a quarter of a million people took to the streets twice several months before the budget.

At this remove from the budget, you do not have to be very sensitive to public feeling to realise that very few people see any great bonanza in the budget for them, in respect of income tax reliefs at any rate. In his statement to the House the Minister gave examples of how people had benefited from it. I have no doubt that he would indulge in that kind of exercise if invited to, and to be able to show, by reference to one statistic or another, or one percentage or another, how grateful people who pay PAYE income tax or self-employed people who pay tax by other means should be. The ordinary people do not see it that way. With a 23 per cent level of inflation at the end of May they do not see it that way.

Within a few days of the budget some of the more clear-eyed and clear-minded economists saw that the reliefs in the budget were more imaginary than real. Paul Tansey writing in The Irish Times a few days after the budget on 10 March was able to find justification for heading his article “Sleight-of-Hand Magic in Budget Sums”. There has been a lot of talk about who benefited most from the income-tax changes. I should like to use the opportunity to sew into the record of the House some examples of the changes that have taken place. I should also like to read into the record of the House some of the views expressed by Mr. Tansey in relation to the taxpayer and the advantage that accrued to the taxpayer arising out of the budgetary changes. On 10 March he wrote:

Taxpayers' feelings of euphoria engendered by the recent Budget are misplaced. The Government have got away with it, again. Through a mixture of shrewd political planning and judicious public relations, Ministers have managed to defuse the tax bomb for a little longer.

Taxpayers are luxuriating in a sense of well-being following the Budget. For some, it was not as hard as they had anticipated. Others—particularly two-income families—are satisfied that they are considerably better off. But, despite the apparently generous increases in the size of income tax bands, and the increased tax allowances for PAYE taxpayers, the fact remains that the Government itself, still expects to raise almost £250 million more from income tax in 1980, than in 1979. This would represent an increase of one-third in income tax receipts accruing to the Government.

He concluded that article, in which he dealt more with the position of single people than married people, by saying:

The apparently generous increases in personal tax allowances, and the widening of bands are only skin deep. The real position can be seen clearly only when account is taken of the likely pay and price increases this year, as well as the changes in the PAYE tax code itself. Failure to take all factors into account results in a phenomenon well known to economists. It is called money illusion, and its effects have been widespread in the aftermath of this Budget.

The following day when he discussed the position of married persons he found justification to title his article, "No Bonanza for Married Couples". I should like to refer to some of the illustrations he gave of the equity the Minister for Finance has brought into the tax system. He detailed his examples in four tables in which he set out the following circumstances.

In Table 1 he dealt with: "Married couple, husband working in PAYE employment, wife not working. Two children. No interest payments that can be claimed against tax. The husband earned £5,000 in 1979 and his pay is assumed to increase by 20% in 1980". I will not bore the House with the details, but effectively he comes up with a deduction rate which represents income tax plus social insurance contributions as a percentage of gross income which, applied across the board equally to the four tables, is a fair way of doing things.

In Table 1, the deduction rate in 1979 was 17.3 per cent and in 1980 it was to increase to 18.6 per cent. There is no benefit there. In Table 2 we deal with: "Married couple. Husband in PAYE employment, wife not working. Two children. £1,500 in annual mortgage interest payments allowable against taxable incomes. Income is £7,000 in 1979, rising to £8,400 in 1980." On this occasion the effective deduction rate in 1979 is 15.2 per cent, and after the budget it increases to 17.5 per cent.

Table 3: "Married couple, both working in PAYE employment. He earned £6,000 in 1979. She earned £4,000. They have no children. Their salaries are assumed to rise by 20% in 1980. They have £2,000 in annual interest payments to set against taxable income". Their deductions rate in 1979 is 22.3 per cent. In 1980 it rises, only marginally this time, to 23.1 per cent. Those are three examples of people ending up considerably worse off than they were in 1979.

Table 4: "married couple both working in PAYE employment He earned £12,000 in 1979 and she earned £8,000 leaving them a joint income of £20,000. They both anticipated a 20 per cent rise in their incomes in 1980. They have no children. They have £2,000 in annual interest payments to set against taxable income." The deduction rate in 1979 is 40.7 per cent. For the first time there is a change downwards in that for 1980. It is reduced by over 5 per cent to 35.5 per cent. To detail further the actual advantages that accrued from the budget to that couple with an annual income of £20,000, he reckons that their disposable income in 1979 was £11,862 but in 1980 it amounts to a whopping £15,848, £4,000 extra or £80 a week. This is the equity the Minister for Finance referred to in his opening statement to us.

I certainly fell for that one in the immediate aftermath of the budget. I was suffering from what the Minister referred to as the "money illusion". I could tell the Minister for Finance if he were here now that the "money illusion" has well worn off and the glitter with which he presented his well-packaged and ready-for-marketing packet to the public in the budget of 1980 has well worn off as well.

Mr. Tansey in concluding his articles wrote:

In retrospect, then, the personal tax provisions of the 1980 budget do not represent a sharp reduction in the income tax burden, except for those who either receive very large pay increases in 1980 or for those who are currently earning very substantial incomes.

Most single taxpayers will be worse, rather than better off, when the combined effects of inflation, pay increases and taxation are all taken into account.

In the case of married couples, those with a very high household income from one or two sources gain most at the expense of the lower paid. In relative terms, this represents a redistribution of the tax burden first from married to single people and second, from married couples with a high household income to those with a low household income.

There is the equity the Minister for Finance referred to in his opening statement. I am sorry he is not here, because I certainly find it very hard to see the equity or justice of such tax measures. I noted with great interest that, while he was very careful to attribute to himself and his Government's generosity the changes in the income tax code, income splitting and so on, he was also very careful to attribute to the Supreme Court the fact that people at the higher scale did so much better. I say to him that is untrue. It may have been the case that people in the higher income tax bracket had to benefit also from the Supreme Court decision. That is not to say that he could not have taken other measures to counter it. There was no effort to take these measures. In his statement to us he would have us believe and asks us to accept that. At page 7 of his statement he said:

As I mentioned in my budget statement, it may appear that the distribution of tax relief resulting from this year's budget unduly favours married couples with higher incomes.

£80 per week for those with a £20,000 income is not too bad. He went on:

This aspect, however, is an unavoidable consequence of observing the Supreme Court decision and of implementing income-splitting in full.

I would say that that is nonsense. In fairness I should say this much. I do not attribute to this Government or to the Minister for Finance, the present or previous one, responsibility for the PAYE tax code. I accept fully that it has been there for a long time through several Governments. I also acknowledge, as I think members of the Labour Party would, that when it was first introduced it was very popular. It was accepted as something that was a great relief to people who, before that, had to pay their income tax by way of a lump sum at the end of the year, which presented obvious difficulties to them.

If we want to talk about the imaginative and innovative changes the Minister talks of, we need to take a far harder look at, and be willing to reform a good deal more, if not take apart altogether, the present PAYE tax code. I do not believe anything short of that will introduce equity or justice into it.

While I recognise that the PAYE tax system is not of the making of this Government, or any recent Government, and that the great difficulties that have arisen in the PAYE tax code cannot be attributed to any particular Government or to any political party, the harsh reality is that the Minister for Finance is utterly misleading the House, and is talking pie in the sky, when he refers to equity and justice in the context of his budget proposals in relation to income tax or, indeed, for that matter, when he refers to imaginative and innovative changes. Words like those should be reserved for election manifestos and certainly should not be read into the record of this House with the expectation that anybody would accept or believe that there is one iota of truth or substance in them.

I want to move from the income tax proposals in the budget to the budget as it affected farmers. Despite the Government amendments made on Committee Stage in the Dáil, given the current state of the agricultural industry, the budget indicates a continuing lack of understanding on the Government's part of our agricultural economy and our agricultural industry and its present state. We had the diabolical confusion associated with the 2 per cent levy last year. Despite ample warnings to the Government that there was nothing but bungling involved in it, it has continued unabated in the form of the resource tax.

I have no doubt that the Government's handling of the 2 per cent levy issue last year contributed in no insignificant or small way to the bad industrial relations we had. They showed themselves to be an indecisive government and a weak government. This year the Taoiseach allowed his Minister for Finance to read his budget statement in which a resource tax was introduced, a tax which is silly and inappropriate at this time. I will say why in a moment. A few days later he said it might be a temporary measure only, again showing indecisiveness, again showing weakness and procrastination, just the type of government we expected from everybody but the Taoiseach, Deputy Haughey, the economic maestro, the man who would be strong at the top, the man who would be in control. He shows himself to be either lily-livered and scared, or else to be utterly indecisive and procrastinating over matters over which no Government should procrastinate.

We have had budget announcements from the Government over the past two years and withdrawl symptoms setting in the day after, and within a few days a somersault and an acrobatic change. It is quite impossible to believe that it could happen one year after another. It is sad both from the farmers' point of view and certainly from the PAYE people's point of view because they believe that any sort of pressure applied to the Government will cause them to change. The 2 per cent levy and the resource tax were badly conceived from the start. Any Government who introduced a tax in their budget should stick by their guns and show everybody that they were elected to govern and that is what they will do. This Government showed themselves incapable of that.

The reason I say the resource tax is inappropriate is that like last year, all the evidence this year is that farmers' incomes are going to collapse. I am not an expert on agriculture. I am not an agricultural economist. I am versed to speak on the economy, but I have eyes and ears and I can see and hear what is happening in rural Ireland at the moment. If you care to speak to the manager or anybody involved in an ordinary sized cooperative, you will understand how difficult it is for them to get in money. You will understand that many farmers who have accounts are now buying goods from that co-op in relation to the price they hope to get for their milk in three or four months' time. That is how bad things have gone. You can ask any bank manager how bad things are in the farming community. You can ask any farmer. You may regard him as prejudiced, but listen anyway, because he will detail to you and show you evidence on paper of the position they are working in at the moment.

This Government in 1977 made various promises, suggestions and implications. The implications were far worse in relation to farmers than they were in relation to the rest of the community. I was not a candidate in the general election in 1977, but I was involved and I knew what was going on. I saw Fianna Fáil campaigners going into farmers' houses and yards and producing income tax assessments other farmers had received. The purpose of this was to frighten people into the belief that, if the Coalition Government got back, they would continue with the horror of taxing farmers. If you compare the taxation system now existing for farmers with that which existed in the Coalition time, you will see how reasonable and very pleasant from the farmers' point of view those taxation measures were.

On page 20 of the manifesto we see: "Summary of Fianna Fáil's Policy on Income Tax for Farmers."

1. Farmers can opt for assessment by submitted accounts with the option of averaging his profits over a 3 year period, due to the cyclical nature of farming or by the Notional System.

2. Fianna Fáil will allow rates on land as an instalment of a farmer's tax bill, resulting in a tax saving for farmers of £10m.

There was not a word about the abolition of the subsidy on rates which I would have thought was to be expected in paragraph 2 on that page.

3. The Fianna Fáil Notional System of taxation——

That is the one which is gone, courtesy of this budget.

—will encourage re-investment in farming with the following deductions being allowed:

(a) Wages paid to farm workers resulting in a tax saving for farmers of £2.5m. This allowance will provide an incentive to farmers to increase their labour force.

(b) Contractor Fees farmer's tax savings of £1.5 million. This should encourage increased tillage production thereby reducing the £50m. grain import bill.

The only thing which has happened in relation to that is that the Notional System has been abolished.

Under the heading "Farm Loans" we read:

Fianna Fáil will provide a 3% subsidy on interest rates for farmers who come within an expanded development category in an Agricultural Loan Scheme for long-term financing of farm development.

I have not heard one word about that since I first read it in June 1977. That is what Fianna Fáil said they would do in 1977. What have we had. We have had a dropping of the threshold for farmer's income tax. We have had an increase, before they abolished it altogether, of the multiplier and the notional system. I do not wish to quibble with those. They are perfectly reasonable. It was proper that the Government should do that. The only objection I had was to the misleading statements in their election manifesto. They went further than that. They abolished the rates subsidy and farmers who got their rates demand notes in the last week—even the smallest farmers who have to pay £5 extra a week—know the truth of Fianna Fáil promises and policy in relation to farmers. Bigger farmers are caught this year for £1,000 extra in rates because of the abolition of the rates relief. They abolished the subsidy in relation to fertiliser purchases by farmers. They introduced a multiplicity of levies, of such numbers that no farmer can examine his milk cheque without wondering whether it is an income tax bill or a milk cheque. To cap it all, despite the fact that in the past two years we have seen a dramatic collapse in farmers' income, this year we see the introduction of a resource tax. The resource tax is introduced with the proviso that it may not last. We are not really sure what is meant by that. In his opening statement the Minister referred to the resource tax and said:

...it is not the Government's intention that this tax should be a permanent feature of the farm tax system. It will be reviewed at the end of the year in the light of the operation of the farm income tax system and the yield from that system.

I would ask the Minister to give us some enlightenment on what precisely he means by that. Does he mean that, if the income tax returns from farmers drop this year, he will expand and reintroduce next year the resource tax for farmers? I put it to him that, if there is such a drop in farmers' income tax this year, it might reflect the sorry state of the agricultural industry. It might reflect upon the fact that last year farmers' incomes dropped by something in the order of 17 or 18 per cent. The same is likely to recur this year.

One of the main difficulties farmers have at present is planning. Last year or the year before farmers were told by the Government: "In future you will have to opt for income tax on the notional system or on the ordinary system. You must stick to that for three years". Farmers who made their farm plans and their budgetary plans on that basis had the carpet pulled out from under their feet this year, without explanation or apology. What do we understand Fianna Fáil to mean when they say it will be reviewed at the end of the year in the light of the operation of the farm income tax system and the yield from that system? If the Minister for Finance says in one year: "You have to opt for a notional system or a regular accounts system at the start of three years and stick to it", I would have thought it reasonable to assume that the Minister would stick to that and enable farmers who had opted for the notional system to remain in it for three years. But the Minister decided "no".

What are we to understand his plans are for next year? When he announced the introduction of the tax in his budget he did not refer to the fact that it might be of a temporary nature only. The Taoiseach a few days later in the Dáil announced that it might depart from the scene at the end of the year. Is there confusion about this? What is Government policy on the subject? The one thing we do know about the resources tax is that, no matter how much a farmer's income collapses, the resource tax will be payable, even, if I understand it correctly, to the extent that, if he goes to bankruptcy, the Government, for the resource tax at least, will be a preferred creditor. Despite my earlier remarks I might understand more about the agricultural industry and the way it is going at the moment than the Minister and the Government. I can tell the Minister that there are very many farmers who are very close to bankruptcy at the moment. The Agricultural Credit Corporation and the banks will tell you this. There is pressure on farmers. I am not putting this at the door of the Minister. Unfortunately there is a cycle involved. Unfortunately there are outside influences at work here, particularly in terms of the common agricultural policy and the farm price increases that we are getting. Surely in a year when farmers' incomes are likely to drop again by about 15 to 20 per cent and in a year where farm price increases go up by a mere 5 per cent we could expect something more from the Government than a further reneging on the Fianna Fáil manifesto promises and even on the promises made in last year's budget. I regard as the end of hypocrisy—and I suppose it is to be expected at this stage—the further image building of the Taoiseach when he went to the airport to congratulate his Minister for Agriculture on a so-called magnificent achievement in obtaining a farm increase of 5 per cent. The Minister for Agriculture did well in Brussels, but I do not think there is any reason for the Taoiseach to rush off to the airport to welcome him back with open arms. If the Taoiseach had expressed, in action in the budget, concern for the farmers' plight at the moment I could understand him going. But the reality is that the concern of the Taoiseach and his Government for the farmers is so low at the moment that the only thing the Taoiseach could be seen to be doing was rushing to the airport to welcome the Minister for Agriculture back home. Beyond the image and beyond the surface there is not a bit of substance or, apparently, a bit of sympathy or understanding of the dilemma the farmers find themselves in at present.

I want to mention a couple of points that are perhaps more proper on Committee Stage but I am not sure when Committee Stage will be taken. They are points of narrow application and limited interest. In relation to the section on capital acquisitions tax I put this to the Minister simply as a general query and as something which might be changed and that certainly if it could be changed would have good social consequences flowing from it. Because of the way in which the present relief structure in capital acquisitions tax operates, young people, and particularly farmers or land owners with a young family, who perhaps are sick or are for good and prudent reasons drawing up a will in any event, find themselves in the position that, in order to avoid a crippling tax liability, frequently they have to leave part of their assets to young children aged four or five or six years of age. The benefit that exists on the acquisition accrues to a recipient of an asset. I can understand for that reason that the reliefs must operate therefore in the hands of the recipient. But I wonder if, in relation to families, some arrangement could not be made whereby a widow, and certainly a widow with a young family, would be able to use the benefits that would go to each of the children and accumulate them like she was able to do in relation to death duties when they existed. Some people are put in an appalling position where they literally have to divide up their assets equally between their children and give so much to their widow in order to ensure that the ravages of the capital acquisitions tax do not tear the entire family estate apart. If the widow was able to use the reliefs that apply to each of the children, the State would be at no loss. It amounts to the same thing in revenue. But the social consequences would be a lot more attractive particularly—and I know of cases where farmers had to take steps because of ill health, steps they did not like taking but were obliged to take because of the structure of the reliefs. The consequences are difficult; they are wrong; they are unjust and they are unnecessary. I would ask the Minister to comment on whether the benefit of these reliefs could not be given to a widow or surviving spouse, whichever the case might be.

I regret that the Minister has seen fit to increase the interest rates on death duties. I would have thought that death duties were regarded by all persons, at this stage at least, as an inequitable tax that should never have existed in the form that it did. To increase further the interest payable is something that would also be regarded as being inequitable and unjust.

There is one other point in relation to particular sections of the Bill. Section 60 empowers the Revenue Commissioners through an authorised officer, to enter a person's premises where any trade or profession is carried on and require the person carrying on the trade or profession or any person on those premises in that place who is employed by the person carrying on the trade or profession to produce any books, records, accounts or other documents for the inspection of the Revenue Commissioners. I accept the necessity for the Revenue Commissioners to have access to documents like that for inspection purposes. But, while such a liability should attach to the person who is operating that trade or profession or, say, an assistant but qualified professional person who works in that firm, it is not right that any employee of that firm can be asked by the Revenue Commissioners to produce books and documents to them. The secretary who is just out from commerical school and who is 16 or 17 years of age and who is on her first job or indeed who is there for the purposes of work experience is, strictly speaking, employed in that profession. In relation to certain professional offices, those of a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant, an employee like that is not competent to decide which documents have within them details of clients' transactions. It is an extraordinarily broad power. I am sure it is precedent and a well established practice that this is the phrase that is used in this type of section. I am not always convinced that precedent is a good reason for including such things but I certainly think that that should be looked at because possibilities for abuse and for subjecting people who are not qualified to consider matters above their head are likely to arise out of it.

I have been critical of the contents of the budget in relation to income tax and general taxation for farmers. But in fairness, I must acknowledge that this year we had an increase for social welfare recipients 'of the order of 25 per cent. But again I want to take issue with the Minister on his suggestion in his budget speech in the Dáil that this was something new. Perhaps the Minister did not anticipate that to end of May there would be for 12 months an inflation rate of 23 per cent. The reality is that for people on social welfare, much more than anyone else, they are going to be considerably worse off in 1980 than they were in 1979. The equity and justice that the Minister referred to in the taxation code would find very unco-operative ears in relation to social welfare recipients who have gained £5 from the budget if they realised that the equity of the budgtery proposals was going to give £4,000 a year or £80 a week to somebody who between himself and his wife is earning £20,000 a year as in the example that Mr. Tansey quoted in the article I referred to, compared with the £5 a week of the social welfare recipient. That type of equity would fly high above the head of any social welfare recipient.

I also want to refer to the Minister's general exhortation to the public to approach their demands for pay increases with restraint This is important. The Minister will only succeed if he can get the message across to the public and to self-employed people and employees generally that the Government are fully committed to restraint themselves. Senator FitzGerald has already referred to the high expectations set up in the Fianna Fáil manifesto. I do not want to go back into those. But most people are very disinclined to accept as genuine the Government's call and exhortation for restraint when they see the level of inflation and the daily tidings of price increases that come in our morning papers, many of them by Government sponsored or Government agencies, whether it is the ESB or otherwise. I am not going to lay the entire blame for all those price increases at the Government's door. It would be unfair and wrong of me to do so. But what signs have the Government shown that they are interested in the whole question of price control? What did they say in 1977, for example? Again it was by courtesy of Senator Mulcahy's suggestion that I fetched the manifesto. These are what I might call the more pedestrian proposals in the Fianna Fáil manifesto. Very strangely, these are proposals that are achievable, that could easily have been carried out. So far as we are aware in this House we have seen no sign that any of these proposals are being carried out. Perhaps there are plans afoot now that the Government are hell bent on ensuring restraint in pay negotiations.

On prices the manifesto states:

The Prices Commission will be carefully and thoroughly examined, and restructured and brought up to date, as it is widely believed to be inadvertently protecting inefficient firms and in itself to be incapable of proper investigation of many applications made to it. Frequently these are for far more than the firm really needs and the increase granted is often for more than the firm ever expects.

I accept that the Minister is not the Minister responsible. But he knows about the inflation problems we have. He has experience of participating in this Government, he is anxious to exhort the public not to seek pay increases that are very high. These people, to whom he is addressing his exhortations, have to suffer the daily tidings of price increases in the media. Have the Government in fact carried out any examination or investigation of the structure of the Prices Commission? Have they done anything at all in relation to firms who look for increases of more than they actually need? Does the Minister believe, now that the Prices Commission is capable of proper investigation of these applications?

The document continues:

2. Government policy must be directed towards discouraging increased costs and prices in all areas where it has control or influence.

Would that include CIE or the ESB? I do not know but perhaps the Minister could give us some indication of where that policy has been effective over the past two or three years.

3. Investigate middlemen's margins in areas where there is an inordinate difference in the price obtained by the producer for certain products and the price paid by the housewife for the same, e.g. fish, vegetables etc.

Have any steps been taken in relation to these things? I can certainly offer to the Minister the words that I heard from a lady who was interviewed on radio the other day who described having to pay 65p or 70p for a head of cabbage. I am quite sure it did not cost anything like that in 1977. I am sure that somebody is doing well out of that somewhere, and I would like to know if the Minister has taken any steps or if his Government are taking any steps to get at the middleman who is getting this inordinate profit out of it.

4. Full dissemination, at least once a week, to radio, television and newspapers of comparative prices of the most frequently purchased consumer goods in supermarkets etc, in different parts of the country.

I certainly have seen nothing on radio or television that has been Government sponsored, nor have I seen anything in the newspapers that would give me any reason to believe that the Government have done anything with that undertaking. There are quite a number of proposals. I am sure the Members will not suggest that I am leaving out proposals if I skip down in order to shorten my contribution. But further down there is a promise to:

Investigate fully why Northern Ireland prices are less (apart from tax reasons) than prices in the Republic for the identical product from the same supplier and the same factory. Examples are motor cars, parts, tyres, detergents, processed foods, biscuits, clothing etc. Where no valid reason is found for such a significant difference in these prices, the Minister should be empowered to Fix the prices at their Northern Ireland level.

I want to know have any steps been taken in relation to that undertaking. I had better record the last two items.

Fianna Fáil will regard price control as an important matter and will therefore revert to the position where a member of the Government is responsible for it and for dealing with the underlying cause of inflation.

Now tell me this. Who is Minister for Prices? Is it the Minister, Deputy O'Malley or the Minister of State, Deputy Burke, who is the Minister responsible for consumer affairs? We could do with a Prices Bill and perhaps a Minister for Prices here to discuss some of the problems, and particularly the problems we have in relation th the fulfilment of the Fianna Fáil election manifesto page headed "Prices".

The final promise was

The accounting procedures of the ESB will be examined and brought up to date with a view to reducing the price of electricity.

So much for that. In 1977 Fianna Fáil said the following:

...the basic message is simple. Clear and decisive action can be taken to overcome unemployment and inflation. Fianna Fáil will take that action, restore economic stability and confidence, lead the country back to work and give our young people the chance to make their contribution to building a better future.

I do not think I need to say any more about it. But I will say this. If the Minister is serious about his desire for restraint in pay increases and if he is genuine in his efforts—and I recognise that his efforts are difficult and I recognise that the efforts must be taken—I would ask the Government to set about immediately implementing some of the more pedestrian aspects of the 1977 Fianna Fáil Election Manifesto.

I want in conclusion to refer to some of the other aspects of the budgetary policy this year that I do not think the Minister referred to and that I do not think any of the other Senators have referred to either. That is the policy of public spending cuts. I accept, given our budgetary problems, that in the general difficult economic situation there must be spending cuts. I recognise that they are never pleasant or easy. But the absence of a policy or the apparent absence of a policy by the Government at present is making the situation extremely difficult for people. The public are being given the impression at the moment that the Government themselves do not know where they are going or what they are doing. I have already witnessed the example of the resource tax this year and the 2 per cent levy last year and the changes of mind in relation to those. I want also to refer to probably the quickest change of mind we have had since this Government took office. We had the Minister for Education some weeks ago planning cutbacks in the school transport scheme. A few days later he hurriedly withdrew the proposals for cutbacks that he had originally announced. That type of expression of Government policy will do absolutely nothing to increase confidence in the Government among the population. Either the Government are serious about solving our economicc problems or, for that matter, they are serious about ensuring equity in relation to a taxation system and its general economic policy or they are not.

I am glad that the Minister for Education changed his mind on this. I am sorry that he did not consult with whoever it was he consulted with afterwards so that he would have known beforehand that what he was planning was unwise. But I do know that people living in remote areas of the country, as the Minister here present well knows, are people who are often the worst off, particularly the people who come from small farms who are badly off at the moment. To deprive those people—and people would have been deprived—of a means of education in the middle of their schooling, whether they are in first or second class or whatever, is something that is socially undersirable and economically unjustifiable at the moment no matter how badly off we are. I stress again that the uncertainty and the procrastination of the Government do not in any sense do them proud.

I am one of the persons, like many young people, who had for the past 12 months the privilege of sitting on a local authority. During my time as a member of Tipperary North Riding County Council the difficulties that that council have faced in relation to carrying out their work have almost been an embarrassment. This year that council are, in real terms, about a quarter of a million pounds worse off than they were last year in relation to maintenance and road planning generally. We know from the executive of the council that things are going to be particularly bad. This is a problem which does not just occur in relation to roads, nor, let me stress, in relation to my county is it in any way different from any other county; the problem repeats itself in relation to housing, in relation to sanitary services, in relation to almost every area. I cannot complain too loudly because we know that the Government's decision to cut back was a blanket decision and affected everybody. There was a 10 per cent increase being allowed and that was that. So we could budget, difficult though it was. We had to budget backwards but we could budget because we knew what the intentions were. But yesterday morning our County Manager had to announce that because of the Government's failure—not refusal yet—to sanction a particular sewerage scheme, namely, Puckaun sewerage scheme, in North Tipperary the county council had to give warning that they were going to make 33 men redundant. There has been no policy about this. There has been no indication from the Government that this was going to happen. But the County Manager yesterday, a man who is well above and beyond party political favours, had to indicate that because that was the position he found himself in. Public spending cuts may be necessary, but uncertainty is something that just cannot be tolerated by any local authority. We have endeavoured over the past 12 months to have a delegation to engage in conversations with the Minister for the Environment to discuss our particular problems, and our several requests for deputations like that have been refused. I want to say further that I regard it as nothing short of the height of hypocrisy to see the Taoiseach call in 21 chief executives and chairmen of State-sponsored bodies to discuss economic growth and the prospects for employment expansion, when in North Tipperary County Council we have to send 33 men on to the dole and make them redundant because the Department of the Environment have failed to sanction a sewerage scheme. They have not yet refused but they have failed. They have been told of the urgency of it. They have been told of the necessity and the difficulty we find ourselves in but they have failed to do it.

I want to conclude by saying that the image building that this Government have engaged in is wearing very thin on the ground. One has only to look around the country to see how badly off people are in some respects. That may be a cycle that people will go through, but the insincerity of Government policy in relation to public spending cuts, in relation to income tax changes which the Minister described as imaginative and innovative, in relation to social welfare recipients and in relation to almost everything we deal with are such that there is no hope whatever of people believing for a second that they should act in a restrained manner in seeking wage increases and I must say, given the performance of this Government, I do not blame them.

The importance of this Bill is, of course, always fundamental and very far-reaching. But to most people it is. First and foremost, concerned with taxation and the effects of taxation, and a great deal of the debate has centered around that so far. Attempts have been made to analyse the effect of some of the changes proposed in the Bill. Comparisons have been made which I would like to deal with in a few moments. But what is also fundamentally important and is affected directly by the changes proposed in the Finance Bill for this year is the impact which taxation has on our society and on any modern economy. It must, first and foremost, be seen to be and actually be, as far as is humanly possible, fair and equitable. In addition to that the effect of our tax laws and how they operate on the individual, on enterprise, on initiative and on the take-home pay of workers is of such fundamental economic importance, as well as social importance, that it must get this attention and it must get this yearly reexamination and, where possible, innovations implemented. This has happened this year, regardless of what we have heard from the Opposition benches, in a way which has never been done before and the beneficial effects of which will have the capacity to go a long way to form the basis not just for our wage negotiations but also for our investment policy and the essential enterprise of the individual worker or self-employed person or manager throughout the economy.

Yesterday Senator FitzGerald referred to the effects of the proposed tax changes on a married couple with an income of £20,000 and no allowances other than the personal marriage allowance and he indicated the effect, as he saw it, of the Bill on the tax position in 1979-80 and 1980-81. He pointed out that their liability in 1979-80 would have been just over £9,000. But when that figure is analysed the reality, regardless of whether it was a joint or separate assessment, and if we accept that the income was earned equally, is that the husband would have paid tax in the order of 37 per cent and the wife would have paid tax at 60 per cent. That should be read into the statistics which Senator FitzGerald referred, to, the abstract case he took, because, regardless of the figures, that is fundamental to a great deal of the unease, anxiety and distress which many people felt and which many working wives' justifiably felt over a long period of time.

With particular reference to some of the remarks made by Senator Molony, a great deal of the concern and anxiety and worry which people have about taxation and its effect on their family income goes right back to the extraordinary onslaught which the Coalition Government and the then Minister for Finance launched on the tax payers. It was necessary to refer to this at the time; it was necessary to refer to this when Fianna Fáil came back to power, and sense and reason were breathed again into our tax laws. But in view of some of the remarks that have been made in the debate today, it is probably necessary to refresh some Senators' memories again as to the type of tax situation which existed under the National Coalition Government. In 1975-76, which was the middle of their administration, the height of their economic problems and a time when inflation for the year was, in fact, running at over 20 per cent, they persistently refused to make any meaningful changes in the personal allowances; they persistently refused at least to make the marriage allowance twice the single allowance and, despite that refusal, they added 10 per cent on to the standard rate of tax as a surcharge, increasing it from 35 to 38 per cent for that year and for, the next year. I am talking in this context only about the rates of tax and allowances because they are the two areas that are directly referrable to what has happened since then. There were, of course, many other problems, purely of a tax nature, which were fed into the system by the Coalition Government which aggravated the situation, worried tax payers and gave the clear impression that activity, hard work, initiative, whether as a wage earner or as a self-employed person or otherwise, were things which had to be seized immediately and assaulted by our tax laws. I believe that a great deal of the discontent and worry and anxiety over the past number of years springs directly from that extraordinary, narrow-minded onslaught which was made at that time by the Coalition Government.

On their return to power Fianna Fáil immediately reformed personal allowances. The personal allowances were increased in the early years of this administration in a way which had never been achieved before, in a way that many people thought was not possible. Not only were they increased but also, from the point of view of married people they provide for the doubling up of the single allowance to produce the marriage personal allowance. We have a situation in which the marriage allowance was increased from £1,100 in 1977-78 to £2,230 in 1979-90. Similarly other allowances were increased. That was the first approach in relation to personal tax only. In this Bill and in the budget the Minister for Finance has brought about some extremely far-ranging improvements and reforms in providing both for income splitting and the increase in the bands at which the higher rates of tax are applicable, and here I should also like to refer to some of the figures that were mentioned from the other side of the House and the effect of some of these changes.

Senator Molony took an example of a married person with £5,000 income in 1979-80 and also compared it with 1980-81. First, if we just take the situation of a family income of £5,000 in the last fiscal year and in this fiscal year, the effect of the changes on a static income, regardless of what other circumstances may apply, clearly shows that as a result of the changes in the Bill the effective rate of tax falls from 17 per cent to 12½ per cent. That is a fact which emerges directly out of the proposed changes. The second point is that Senator Molony in his example assumed a 20 per cent increase in remuneration from 1979-80 to 1980-81. He included some other items which appear to put up the effective rate as he produced it, but the point I want to make is that in terms of taxation alone, which is what we are talking about, allowing for an increase of, 20 per cent bringing the total income from £5,000 to £6,000 there is still a reduction in the effective rate of tax as expressed as a total in both years but, much more significantly, the additional element of tax as a percentage of the additional income is about 12 per cent whereas if these changes as proposed by the Bill had not taken place that rate of tax would have been 35 per cent.

This is an immensely important part of the effect which the proposed changes will have, that not only does it bring relief now but individuals—workers, wage earners, self-employed—can look forward to increasing their incomes, increasing their output, increasing their family earnings knowing that they are not going to be met by an onslaught of higher rates at the earlier stages of taxable income which applied up to now. If Senator Molony would go back to his figures about which he spoke for some time he would see the effect as far as the future is concerned, the beneficial effects of the changes proposed in the Bill as far as increased income is concerned at a relatively low rate even as he gave in his example.

There are a number of other changes proposed in the Bill which have not been referred to. I should like to refer to some of them at this point. The Minister has introduced for the first time an entirely new idea of the special employment deduction of £400. This is a very appropriate type of relief to give in the present context in which comparisons are made frequently between the impact of tax on workers under PAYE and on self-employed people. It is an imaginative idea and one which now and in the future will help to iron out discrepancies that may exist not just in the way that people are taxed but in the way they actually pay their tax. This special employment deduction provides a basis of compensating people paying under PAYE on a week-to-week basis or on a month-to-month basis for the speed at which they pay their tax as compared with people under Schedule D, self-employed people who, apart from being assessed normally on a preceding year basis, paid their tax up to now in two instalments in the current year. The effect of this special deduction to PAYE people compensates in terms of interest saved alone for the accelerated way in which they actually pay their tax as compared with people under Schedule D, and in addition to providing this allowance which provides that type of compensation to PAYE taxpayers, it is also provided—and I think this is important, too, in making these comparisons—that the full liability from 1980-81 onwards has now to be paid by Scheduled D and self-employed taxpayers in one instalment in October. That is quite a significant change, and it brings more into harmony as far as the payment of tax is concerned the position between the PAYE taxpayer and the self-employed person in so far as the self-employed person is now required to pay in one payment and at an earlier date. In addition the special deduction is given to the PAYE taxpayer. That is of practical benefit to the PAYE taxpayers, and it is of psychological importance in showing that we are determined to work out an equitable system both in assessing people's income to tax and in the way in which it is paid.

I should like also to refer to the removal from any tax liability of people with earnings less than £1,700 per annum or in the case of married people, £3,400 per annum. Little, if any, reference was made to this in the debate though it is of very great importance to many people, particularly elderly people on small pensions. Most people in public life will be aware of cases where people because of some small pension or other income manage to get by but fall short of qualifying for social welfare benefits of one form or another and then sometimes find because of the way the law operated in the past that they are required to pay a small amount of tax but nevertheless the fact that they paid it at all was wrong and the anxiety which it caused to have to pay the tax was very difficult for them and very distressing. This type of level of remuneration now should eliminate most of those cases, and it is a very important facility for single people up to £1,700 and for married people with incomes of up to £3,400.

The system of deductions which have been allowed over the years to taxpayers who take on the responsibility of providing for themselves and their families by way of health and pensions, improvements to homes and that type of expenditure, has developed over the years. Some reference was made to the effect that people abuse some of these deductions, but the vast majority of people who avail of them do so in a genuine way and in a very positive way to provide for their own future and for the future of their families as well as providing for family illness. It may be possible over the coming years to expand that further and to provide support by way of tax relief to people and to families who are prepared to engage in expenditure to provide for the future welfare of their families in such a way that if they had not done it that burden would have fallen to the State.

It may be possible to examine future ways in which educational fees and expenses up to limited amounts may be allowable to taxpayers who take on this burden themselves thereby relieving the State of the responsibility for it. Very often when that kind of idea is thought about, not necessarily in relation to education but in relation to other important social expenditures that are taken on privately, there is a problem that without limits it could be disproportionately advantageous to high income earners because of the effects of their ability to make greater payments and the fact that they can avail of higher rates of tax when an allowance is given. We could also examine in the future restricting allowances, not just to a specific amount, but also in restricting their applications to the standard rate of tax. That might help to bring the relief directly to bear where it is intended that it should have most effect and where it is, perhaps, needed most.

I referred to the changes which were made in relation to the payment of tax by self-employed people as compared with PAYE taxpayers. It should be said in relation to this whole area as to the accountability for total income that the overwhelming majority of people who have the responsibility of declaring their income to the Revenue do so fairly and honestly and do not cheat. I have no doubt that that applies to the vast majority of taxpayers whether they are filling in their own return of income or whether they are providing information as to the profits they have earned, be they self-employed or running small businesses. It is important to acknowledge that and to ensure that the majority of people who have this responsibility and who face up to it are not tarred or in any way tainted by the behaviour of a very small minority of recalcitrant people who misinform the Revenue and fail to account for their total income or simply cheat on their neighbours. Having said that, I support the comments made by the Minister both in his budget speech and in the provisions contained in the Bill for ensuring that figures submitted to the Revenue are correct and accurate. It is important that we continue to make progress in this area, for the very good reason that not only should the system be fair but it is very important to the individual and to its effect on our society and economy that there is confidence that the system is there and that it operates in a fair way. I understand the powers being sought under section 60 where the inspectors of taxes believe that they should have access to records. Perhaps it might be worth thinking of as we see how this works in practice of also demonstrating that the taxpayers should be able to demonstrate their correctness in the way they handle their affairs. It may be worth considering in the future that in seeking power of acquiring records and books and entering premises either to make copies or to remove records that the basis for discussing this in a neutral form should exist. It might be worth considering introducing appeal procedure whereby the Commissioners could decide if the power is correct and should be implemented.

I referred to the deductions which are allowed and to the effect of the changes on small incomes. I intended also to refer to the increase given in the tax-free deposit interest from £70 to £150. In doing that I was struck by the spending ability and the disproportionate spending ability which people encounter at different stages in their career. As a result of the development of our economy and progress over the years, people find when they first start to work that their spending power is greater than it is through many other stages in their career. Young people, say around the age of 20 or 21, who look back on three or four years earnings and who are getting married or who are encountering responsibilities which require them to have money available, look back a bit ruefully on the spending power they did enjoy and which they would probably have preferred to retain. I do not think that there can be any element of compulsion in requiring people to accumulate or to save, but I think that it is probably worth considering ways in which employers, together with employees who are entering work for the first time, could work out a scheme whereby the benefits of saving at the early stage of a wage earner's career could be developed in such a way that they have the benefit of it at a time in their career when they have more need for it. Perhaps something could be done on these lines through the employers, with perhaps any additional expense involved in administering schemes and in the educational input being covered by way of the tax laws. Many young people would probably like the opportunity of making decisions saving in the early stages of their careers for the benefit of themselves at a not too distant part of their own careers.

Having dealt briefly with the taxation changes and the benefits which these changes can have for the individual, there is the point also that these benefits create conditions within the economy whereby we can capitalise on advances we have made in employment and output. They can provide confidence to the worker, to the self-employed person, to the manager and to industry generally that output and activity and additional work which attracts additional income as it should will not be penalised and will not be taxed in an unreasonable manner. We have the makings within the Finance Bill of creating economic financial conditions which can provide a basis for our economy, capitalising on the gains of the past, particularly now when we find ourselves in world conditions which are on the down-turn in terms of the rate of growth and when we are faced with this huge problem of importing inflation mainly through the price of energy and of oil.

The effective oil increases have been referred to a few times during the debate. From December 1978 to very early in 1980 we have had something like a 300 per cent increase in prices over that period. The effect of that on the economy is self evident. The effect of it on individual industries that are engaged in manufacturing and in energy usage in an important and significant way is extremely important, and the whole debate which is going on and the examination of ways in which our energy can be either conserved or diversified are perhaps the most important areas of economic thinking and economic research and of action throughout the whole economy. Conservation in itself has the obvious advantage of reducing imports and costs and of increasing the amount which is available for reinvestment in creating jobs in industry generally, but the diversification of fuel may not in fact have any or much effect on reducing costs, because it in itself gives rise to costs, and some of the fuels in which it is possible to diversify may not be efficient.

When all that is allowed for there may be no great reduction in costs from diversification. The benefits to the country can be immense both in the saving on our imports bill and also in the production of alternative fuels or in expanding traditional fuels in providing employment at home. While we may not, in terms of changing from one source of fuel to another, reduce the costs we will in fact be investing the money in creating jobs in Ireland rather than creating jobs abroad.

I do not wish to detain the House much further. There is one problem in addition to energy of a cost nature which is affecting business and employment and which has been referred to earlier also. That is the level of interest rates and their effect on industry and employment. I would have to say this. Many people in this country, private individuals and people engaged in running business, must wonder at the way in which both the Central Bank and the banks have devised and carried out their policy over the past two years. It is a source of some concern to people and also of some surprise that restrictions which seem to be reasonable and have a correct basis can be imposed in 1979 and in 1980 by the Central Bank when they simply could not impose them, apparently, in 1978 though they spoke a lot about the necessity for restraint in 1978.

Their advice was sound in 1978, but I think that many people may wonder why it was possible to do in a very determined way in 1979 something which should have been done in 1978 and did not appear to be possible to do at all even to a mild degree. To have that situation, and since the financial policies, to some extent, of the banks in providing money at certain times—to use the word "plentiful" would even be an under-statement—have the effect of fuelling inflation and particularly investment in land and property and then to apply the brake with great severity gives the effect of this turn off to which Senator Mulcahy referred and which, despite the directions which are genuine and which do give priority to investment, has the effect right across the board both in relation to the availability of money and to interest rates. This causes damage to people whom it was not intended to damage and whom the banks never intended to damage.

In considering the banks' role and in defending them the comments made earlier in the debate were correct. It is also right that the way in which policy is implemented as opposed to the way in which it is devised often causes surprise to individuals and to self-employed. In relation to the Bill directly, the taxation changes and the effect which they have had and which I have tried to refer to are imaginative and constructive. The Minister has provided a basis for regulating our economy in a way which will protect those in need of protection and provide the incentives and the outlets to those who wish to contribute both to the creation of jobs and to the development of the economy.

I will not detain the House very long but I want to make a few points which occurred to me as I listened to other Senators. Senator Hussey has been reminding me of the news item some days back when the Revenue Commissioners disclosed that they had recovered very considerable sums from tax evaders. An enormous sum was mentioned in the case of a particular individual. Apparently a deal was done whereby what used to be called in moral theology restitution was made and no further penalty was exacted. In other countries, in the United States of America for example, such criminals are not forgiven that readily. They have to suffer the full punishment for their crime, and in a country like ours where the inequalities of taxation have caused so much social bitterness it is particularly important that tax evaders in future should be properly punished, should in fact be socially shamed. This would have a very salutary effect indeed.

Senator Hussey in the course of her contribution rightly reminded us that government reform has been frequently a case of too little, too late. I would like to emphasise that point as well. It seems to me that one of the attributes of a wise government is to anticipate trouble. Senator Hussey pointed to the instances of equal pay and the taxation of working wives. I recall as long as two years ago pointing out in this House that the inequities of the PAYE system would be bound to bring people out on to the streets. It is a very undesirable form of cause and effect that street action should have to be invoked before a measure of reform is enacted.

In the course of the debate the Fianna Fáil manifesto was referred to from time to time on one side of the House or the other. Senator Mulcahy strenuously denied that it had anything to do with our present troubles and Senator Molony claimed that the appalling prices situation is an indication of how much the manifesto has failed. We do right to mention the manifesto and to keep on mentioning the manifesto even though the Government might wish us to regard that as being in very bad taste. They will say, "That was three years ago now," and they suggest it was a different administration. It is the same parliament and it is the same Government majority, and like it or not the manifesto created a sense of consumer expectation. It was a manifesto which cheaply and cynically suggested to the electors that a mere change of Government could solve our economic troubles, not even a change of fundamental economic policy. It is that cynical suggestion which is now coming home to roost.

Senator Mulcahy once again castigated those in our society who, he said, "blindly and selfishly" would pursue claims which the economy cannot afford. Of course we all endorse that, but let us remember that there is an inconsistency in a society which for long has been preaching the virtues of growth and which now denounces materialism. It is not as if materialism has suddenly struck and blighted our society for the first time. What is really happening is that classes which did not have materialist expectations before are now educated to do so. When people are told to moderate their demands for pay increases, there is a very large credibility gap because the fever of raging prices to which Senator Molony referred would indicate to the average citizen that he needs to run very hard to stay in the same place.

Senator Donnelly referred to savings. It must be very hard for the average, honest, old-time citizen who wants to save to figure out why it is that the interest on his savings, even when tax free, cannot keep up with inflation. Those honest, unsophisticated citizens in our society who are doing their best to observe the advice given to them about moderating their expectations, must surely pause when they see continuing and vast profits being made on property speculation of all kinds. But the ultimate question for the ordinary citizen in Irish society is quite simply how can the Government propose to deal with the economy when they cannot control the sources which regulate interest and credit, namely the commercial banks.

First of all, I welcome the establishment of the Commission on Taxation. Listening to the debate, this matter has given rise to most of the discussion. I hope that the commission will approach their task impartially and with as much imagination as possible in order to try to devise what I would describe as a fair and equitable system of taxation more suitable to our economic requirements. The system we have been employing here is one that we adopted from the neighbouring island and it is similar to the systems that are employed in European countries. That does not mean that it is the one that will suit us.

Undesirable results have arisen from the direct taxation system. We know, for example, certainly in the past 20 years when so many more have come within the tax net through increases in incomes, that there is a strong element of disincentive towards working and towards doing the best job possible because of the incidence of tax deduction every week. We also know that the system encourages a considerable measure of evasion where people are able to exercise it. It also encourages a great deal of envy and resentment when people feel that some elements in society are getting away with it.

There is one other undesirable result that has developed over recent years and that is that the Revenue Commissioners are spending a lot more money in investigation, in dealing with assessments and in trying to keep track of the money being made and where and how. Side by side with that, a very substantial element has grown up on the accountancy side, and indeed in some cases I have noted that officers in Revenue have been enticed into working for private corporations so as to assist companies in order to reduce their tax liabilities. We have a situation where two highly qualified, skilled and intelligent groups of people are fully occupied in, one might say, trying to bring one another to a standstill. I do not think that situation and the overall direct tax system are good enough and we ought to be able to think up some better means of meeting our revenue requirements.

On the budget, and the Finance Bill itself, it is fair to say first of all that the budget is an effort to get things back on the right road. We have behind us for a number of years, going back over two administrations, a high level of borrowing, of deficits and a developing adverse balance of payments situation. A considerable degree of criticism of the Minister and the Government has been made because of the effects of deficit borrowing. All of us will appreciate that you do not deal with a situation of that kind on a piecemeal basis or attempt to deal with it overnight. If you do so, the net result will be disemployment and depression and a slowing down of economic development.

I will not engage in criticism of those who try to get away with price increases, wage increases and so on—we have heard enough such criticism. That sort of criticism tends to fall on deaf ears. The more practical way to talk about it is to deal with the reality and the consequences to people, the consequences arising from selfishness on the part of any or all sections of the community.

In the first place we are faced with an increasing level of inflation. One factor that should motivate and influence us is that where our inflation rate is above that of the countries on which we depend through exports for income from our production each 1 per cent over and above that means something in the region of 2,000 fewer jobs in our community. That is the consequence of failure on our part as a community to exercise restraint and discipline.

It is not enough to say that the Government should do this and that, because a Government can only pursue the best policy possible. They can exhort people, but in a democracy such as we have they cannot compel people. If we are to make economic progress, all sections of the community and those who have influence over them, Government and Opposition, employers' associations, workers' associations, professional associations and Churches all need to make their effort to give leadership in the interests of the economy and of people whose prospects may be lessening as a result of a lack of discipline. One might say it is all right to talk about it but what is being done about it? If we are to sur-amount the economic difficulties which face us, we will have to make up our minds that those in a position to make sacrifices will have to do so.

On the other hand, there are the positive situations. First of all the budget is an effort to get things on the right road. I welcome the relief to the War of Independence veterans, of whom there are so few now, and to their widows. I also welcome the change in the provision whereby a widow will be allowed the married rate during the year of the death of her husband. Up to now the position was unjust in the sense that if the wife died, the husband continued his married allowance for that year whereas the widow, if the husband died, did not.

I also welcome, despite the criticism of some Senators, the improvements in the earned income allowance. I, and many others, during the past seven or eight years have pointed out the disparity that has existed between this country and most European countries, including Britain, in relation to the level of taxation at the higher level. The reason I am interested in this is because I feel that the graph as it stood was a disincentive to that element in our economy who have management skills which we need, who have entrepreneurial drive and were in a higher tax situation compared with, for example, the same people in West Germany and Britain. Up to the introduction of the recent budget, the position was that an individual here was reaching the top level of tax when his income, if he were single, exceeded £7,500 or if he were married, £8,500. Now the change that has been introduced by the Minister means that that single person will now reach the top tax level at £10,800, but if married at a little over £20,000.

Some Senators will say we are only talking about the wealthy. As far as I am concerned it is not the wealthy who count, it is the individual expertise that is needed in an enterprise economy. The tax level so far as Britain is concerned at the present time is around £23,500 and in West Germany it is more than £42,000. The other tax reliefs from the 25 per cent upwards are welcome. I should like while speaking about it to deal with the other side. I have heard speakers on the media in the past week calling for the removal of the increased tax on petrol which the Minister put on. We cannot have it both ways. The Minister has said that the additional tax on petrol was introduced firstly in order to try to cut down the excess use of energy and secondly in order to help to finance the income tax reliefs. Nobody, of course, welcomes the increase in petrol prices but we are all quite happy to welcome the relief given to the income tax payer. As I said, you cannot have it both ways.

Representations have been made that a Table D taxpayer, if he has not been employed, cannot under the present Revenue regulations take out a retirement pension. It is not an important item, but I understand that representations have been made about it.

On the question of energy, we must face realities. We know that the cost of energy to our community will have increased this year from something in the region of £500 million to £800 million. We know at the same time that those in all classes who are seeking increases in their earnings are concerned about this increase too. We ought to have enough sense to understand that if our economy is not earning the money, then if we insist on recouping the increased cost of fuel by way of increased earnings, we will be contributing more and more to inflation. If we insist on doing so, then the responsibility will be on our own heads if the result is that more people will be put out of employment.

I have mentioned that there is a good side to things. The record of the Industrial Development Authority and of SFADCo in the provision of employment in the past five years, particularly in the creation of small industries, is something not only to be welcomed but something that is helping us and will help us to overcome some of the problems that arise from the inflationary situation, such as the potential 20,000 redundancies that will take place this year. The estimated improvement in employment will be in the order of 23,000, leaving us with a net improvement of around 3,000 new jobs created this year. But if we had the restraint, if we were able to forego the right which many sections have to claim what we think is our right to increased income, the 20,000 potential redundancies which are anticipated could have been halved or more than halved and we would have a much more positive economic situation.

Nevertheless, it is right to point to the good side of the picture as well as the depressing one. The record of the IDA and SFADCo is something to be welcomed, something that should encourage us to look to the future, to take a more positive attitude towards our own responsibilities.

I mentioned that we seek increased incomes in order to make up for the increased cost of fuel and that we should be willing to forego that difference to pay for it out of our earnings or by savings. Yesterday I welcomed the drive that is being promoted by the Minister for Energy to try to reduce our dependence on imported energy. Our energy situation is becoming serious. It may be necessary for us to do more than simply exhort people. There are numerous things that can be done, and I would expect many proposals from the Department of Energy throughout the remainder of the year.

It seems to me that the energy situation may be described as something in the nature of a haemorrhage in the sense that badly needed money has to be sent abroad to keep us going in terms of fuel. If an individual is suffering from a serious haemorrhage you do not simply exhort him to get better: you get a doctor for him and he has to get corrective medical assistance. Similarily, in the waste of energy it may be necessary, by way of tax or otherwise, to discourage waste.

If we are to surmount the economic, financial and social problems that face us, sacrifice will be necessary on everyone's part. If all those sections in the community in a position to make sacrifices refuse to make the effort, if we all continue with our present selfish approach, we will not be able to overcome the problems facing us. In that sense both Government and Opposition and all sections of society should face up to this issue. I believe the Irish people are capable of making the effort and the sacrifice that are necessary. People are waiting for the call to their sense of community responsibility, to their sense of patriotism, and if that call is made they will respond to it.

I accept that anything and everything must start somewhere and that if anything goes wrong on the course blame must lie somewhere, which means that I am going to attribute blame for the present situation in which the economy finds itself. It has been interesting to hear speakers from the Government side of the House speak in every instance about prudence and responsibility in regard to our problems. It reminds me of the old line which asserts that nothing concentrates the mind of a person so much as pending disaster. The original quotation reads something like "Nothing concentrates the mind like the hangman's rope or the threat of drowning". I will not be as cruel as that.

I will just say that Fianna Fáil have become experts on keeping our minds on pending disaster. It is a startling contrast to the situation a few years ago when any problems were identified by Fianna Fáil as having basically simple solutions. The wording in the manifesto was on the lines that the solutions were basically simple. We find, three years subsequently, that nothing is as simple as it then appeared to be.

The problems facing any Government in the western world to run any economy are difficult. They have been made more difficult, unfortunately, in Ireland by what I call the pollution of the electorate's mind by blandishments, by extravagant promises, and by being tempted to hold even higher expectations. The manifesto of 1977 started off the journey to where we arrive at today. I have no doubt about that. Fianna Fáil set as their number one priority the achievement of certain employment targets. The reduction of unemployment was regarded as their chief objective. We see in the manifesto certain tables indicating what the figures would be from year to year.

The electorate were led to believe that things would get better as each year passed, but we are possibly now in a worse situation than could have been envisaged then. Now Fianna Fáil have to face public enemy number one, inflation. In June 1977 inflation had been brought under control by the Coalition Government. If the present Government had not done anything more than keep inflation on the downhill course that it was on, they would certainly have done a good job. But in that they have failed, as they have failed also in the field of unemployment and we see ourselves today in the worst of every world. We have a low growth rate, we have a high inflation rate and we have now a high unemployment rate. To find evidence of the low growth rate, we need not depend on Central Bank statistics or indeed any economist. One need not just depend on the hard statistic of half of one per cent growth rate envisaged for 1980 by the Central, Bank. We can see it in many instances around us. We can see it in closures of small and large factories. In my own County Louth I have seen in recent months an alarming increase in the number of redundancies, lay-offs ranging from half a dozen or a dozen men up to 200 and more in what were the steadiest of firms up to now.

Might I ask the Government what has happened to the "Buy Irish" campaign which was made so much of in the Fianna Fáil manifesto of 1977. It received special paragraphs of its own in that publication. Only last week we were all alerted to the fact that Bord na Móna imported furniture from abroad for its offices. We are all aware of many furniture factories, small and large, in this country, which could well have supplied the demand in that instance. In my own County Louth, I am aware of a number of furniture industries which in the past received IDA grants and which at the present time are not in good situations, and they could well have been in a position to supply that furniture for Bord na Mona. It means that the public exhortations to buy Irish have not been put into practice by the Government. A simple directive to all semi-State bodies could have done something to avoid the situation where we see furniture imported from Italy to furnish semi-State offices.

The recent White Paper—whether we have more of them or not on the economy remains to be seen—attempted to bring down once and for all the curtain on what was started in 1977 and what has happened since. Even the Department of Economic Planning and Development is gone, whether it returns or not has yet to be seen. Rumours have it that it may well be in the pipeline again. If ever there was a time where there should be some clear and decisive planning by the Government it is now, faced as we are with a situation where people have no clear set of objectives laid before them apart from weekly or daily exhortations to show restraint.

This brings me to the purpose and effects of the 1980 budget on the economy. Both Senator Molony and Senator Donnelly have identified individual cases where, in their opinion, there was either demerit or merit as a result of the budget. When one considers what the budget has done in individual cases, it starts one off on what can amount to an academic argument and can go on for a very long time arguing the pros and cons of whether certain introductions in the budget in 1980 were to the advantage or disadvantage of certain categories. I prefer to look on any budget importance as lying in its overall impact and effect on the economy. I believe that what any Government expects the budget to do is to inject something into the economy. For instance, did the budget of 1980 do anything to moderate wages demands? That should have been a very essential objective of the budget of 1980. Since then we have had various union officials saying that there would have to be a 20 per cent income increase this year, an increase which was immediately condemned by Government spokesmen. Yet trade union officials do not speak off the top of their heads. They must have their ears to the feelings of their members. They are responsible, in my experience. The Coalition Government between 1973 and 1977 found the trade unions responsible at all times. I do not think any official of any trade union can afford to be otherwise, like the Fianna Fáil Government in 1977: if you heighten expectations you subsequently pay the price.

What I find alarming at the present time is that in their call for restraint the Government are once again—it has often been the tactic of Fianna Fáil when in difficulty—seeking scapegoats for problems. I do not mind scapegoats being sought by a political party: it is part of the business of politics that, if things go wrong, one looks around and one hates to admit that oneself is responsible when things have gone wrong; but where I am alarmed is when I see on television and radio programmes certain personalities who, while masquerading under an air of impartiality, take the opportunity to try to lay the blame in quarters other than where I believe it rightly belongs, that is, at the door of the Government. That is alarming and shameful on the part of people who should use their position of influence on national airwaves to do the work of the Government while masquerading under roles of ordinary entertainers and link men on programmes. There are a number of examples of that. I hope that those people desist in future from it and do what they are paid by the State to do.

Does the budget of 1980 help the climate for the national understanding? The first essential in any new national understanding is that of confidence. We find the Confederation of Irish Industry saying that its members were never more pessimistic as regards the outcome of 1980. Did the budget of 1980 help to reduce inflation? Within the past few days we have had published a figure in excess of 20 per cent. If so, how could that situation help the economy in 1980 or help to achieve any national understanding? It is an extraordinary thing that, if the people of all classes have restored to them an air of confidence, that confidence will work itself in any agreement. How, in the face of an inflation rate like that, which is far in excess of what one can hope to achieve in real money terms, confidence can be placed in a new national understanding is beyond me.

In brief, how can there be either a moderation in wage demands, a better climate for a national understanding, or a reduction in inflation? How can there be these things if the budget increases taxation far more than it reduces it; if people in the lower income classes were hit worst of all by this budget, and the people in more wealthy classes stood most to gain?

How did the budget of 1980 help to ease credit which I would have imagined would be a very important characteristic of any budget? It is stated reliably now that there can be credit restrictions for anything up to another 18 months. That is not going to help the situation.

How did the budget help the employment front? In the past three months we have seen an alarming increase in the unemployment figures. So we are in the worst of worlds, we have a low growth rate, we have high inflation, and we have high unemployment. Indeed in just taking one item of the budget one gets a very good example of how confidence can be so undermined that chances of attaining a good, constructive national understanding and getting the economy back on the keel earlier rather than later would be so difficult to achieve. The resource tax was an imposition on one particular section of the community. It was bad enough on its own but when it was combined with what is the second successive year when there is a fall in income in real terms for that particular section plus very severe abolition of certain rate reliefs, one sees an instance of where this budget, with which the Government expected to do so much has failed. I believe that when one looks at the situation in regard to borrowing and foreign reserves one sees a combination of circumstances that do not augur at all well for Ireland. In the borrowing field we are being thrown more and more at the mercy of foreign lenders. Our foreign reserves have been reduced in the past two years from a figure of something like £1,200 million to £974 million. That is a 20 per cent reduction, and foreign reserves are our assets, they are the security which is behind us when we go to seek moneys, when we go to show ourselves as a credit worthy nation. We find that we may well be on a very slippery path to having severe economic sanctions imposed upon us by some of these foreign lenders when it comes to seeking further borrowing facilities.

I said at the outset that the Government in 1977 said that solutions basically are simple, with clear and decisive objectives the Government can do its job. I say now that it is time the Government should jump to that and do it. It is operating a bit like, as the phrase goes: "a person can be either a soothing Pollyanna or a strident Jeremiah", neither of whom is, in my opinion, a very good person to be associated with. When the Government tries to be both in the space of a couple of years, turning from being a "soothing Pollyanna" three years ago to now being a "strident Jeremiah", I fear for the economy much more than I did six months ago.

It has become common, everyday reporting by the media, no matter which country we read about, to stress economic difficulties and recessions. The annual report of the Central Bank emphasised how we are suffering from the general impact of a deepening world recession. Therefore, we must look at the global view and face the fact that the business community is facing the fiercest situation in modern times. I have mentioned in other debates that our costs have been rising faster than elsewhere and particularly than in the EEC. We must all realise that we cannot go on paying ourselves more than the national economy can bear. In supporting the Finance Bill we must heed the Minister's warnings that we are in the middle of a very dangerous international situation, and I do not think this has been stressed sufficiently during the debate. It is the tremendous economic problems right throughout the whole world which are making an impact on our own. As the Minister has said, we have to guard our competitiveness and maintain employment. Guarding our competitiveness involves the cost of products and in the cost of services. We read about tourism, that is an invisible export and we must not cost ourselves out of the very valuable income from tourism we have been enjoying in recent years. These needs must dominate all our thinking and receive primary consideration underlying negotiations leading to any new national pay agreement. We must ask whether the system of national pay agreements, which have been in operation for a decade, is suitable to the needs of the Irish economy in the years ahead, because employers have tended to settle for a higher price than they could afford. More and more domestic inflation and more and more the reason for increased costs, as we have well debated today, is the increase in oil prices, and it is unrealistic for individuals or corporations, or even states, to expect to recover totally the increases. The Taoiseach has stressed today that our European partners have accepted this concept. Therefore, we must conserve our expectations as much as we must conserve our energy. An interesting statistic was published this week, that the large majority of consumers expect things to get worse but they do not expect their own position to get worse. This presents a national psychological problem.

Perhaps, after a decade of centralised collective bargaining, it is time to turn our thoughts towards a different type of wage determination. The reintroduction of free collective bargaining or plant bargaining in the private sector could, possibly, remove many of the impediments to the achievement of industrial peace. Local bargaining would permit pay deals to be tailored to the specific needs of managements and employees and particular firms in industry. The present system, where pay increases have largely been imposed from outside, has led to confusion and a certain amount of uncertainty about the obligation being undertaken for the pay rises awarded. I question how few actually read the contract which is signed on their behalf when the national pay agreements are put into force. We have seen, as Senator Markey said, quite a number of successful businesses failing to survvie under the present system, so it is not true to say that pay restraint would collapse if the system of nationally negotiated pay agreements was terminated. In free collective bargaining, the limitations imposed on the rate of pay increases in the private sector must be determined by the company's state of profitability. This is a more realistic constraint on pay increases than any guidelines articulated at national level. The criterion underlying pay increases in the private sector should be the ability of firms to pay. As I foresee the future now, a reintroduction of free collective bargaining would do even more to inject a greater note of realism into the private sector. It would free the Government's hand to shape a distinct pay policy for the public sector. Up to now, the State's hands have been tied by national agreements and the basic increases have been paid to public servants, irrespective of the state of the public finances. Superimposed on national agreements have been specific pay increases, such as the Devlin awards, which has raised the public sector pay even higher. Whilst the Government is to be commended on its start in correcting the imbalances in public finances with this Bill, and this year both the current budget deficit and the Exchequer borrowing requirements will fall in proportionate terms compared with 1979, there is still much to be done. They also tried to get moderation in pay increases by the very generous incentives that are given in the budget. This year, the bulk of the increase in current expenditure has been allocated to the public sector pay increases, even though this has entailed a cut in the volume of services which the State are providing for the public. This imbalance has led to a position where an increasing proportion of total current Government expenditure is accounted for by public sector pay and pensions.

In its bid to put the public finances in order, the next step the Government must take is to tackle the public sector pay problem. Until it does the State's finances are likely to remain in disarray. A return to collective bargaining would free the Government's hand to deal with the problem. In financial terms obviously the Government can now make a strong case for its inability to pay large increases. Cumulative current budget deficits have been mounting since the early seventies and the Exchequer borrowing requirements will still be equivalent to more than 10 per cent of the gross national product this year. On the other side of the equation the Government are not in a position to raise more revenue from additional taxation, given the strength of public feeling against the weight of the tax burden. For these reasons the State does not have access to the funds with which to pay further large increases in the public sector incomes.

There are two approaches which the Government can adopt to curb the rate of increase in public sector pay. First, they could adopt the imposition of cash limits on Government Departments, and I think this is being done in the UK, or in the grants in aid paid to State-sponsored bodies and, secondly, they could postulate pay for the public sector only, limiting increases to some given percentage for the year ahead. In all this I would not like to be misinterpreted as being an opponent of public sector employees or civil servants. I have great admiration for so many of them who have been under-paid in the past. Today we must face up to reality because, for far too long, we have been living on borrowed time and borrowed money and, unless we can construct some solutions to our problems, as Senator Markey also said, sanctions and limitations may be imposed on us in the form of conditional loans from the IMF or the EEC, which would be much more painful than solving our own problems.

The gloomy predictions about the world economy and the recessions in other countries make it all the more imperative that we keep on thinking in terms of the world situation and not just our own domestic situation. But there is a reason for the private sector to envy the public sector because they have access to benefits which do not accrue to private sector employees or, indeed, employers. They have security of employment and index-linked pensions. They are benefits which the private sector employees could not afford to purchase, even if they were available to them. They are real benefits and pay policy in the public sector must stress the cost of these benefits in real terms. When there is an increase, the job is secure and the ultimate indexation of that increase, as far as pensions are concerned, is automatically guaranteed.

As the Taoiseach has said, the grim reality of our present situation is that the economy is not providing us with enough resources to meet the demands which the community as a whole are making on it and unless there is an appreciation of this fact, and full acceptance of it among all those who have power to influence economic events, situations are certain to arise and serious damage will be done to our capacity to solve the problems. As I see it, we all have the choice of playing our part for reasonable rewards for everyone, or allowing this kind of self-indulgent "table for two" mentality of a few to go on having an extravagant lifestyle which is rapidly becoming out of reach of many. I hope that community interests and a sense of realism will prevail.

The Minister, in introducing his Finance Bill last evening, stated that his purpose was to give statutory effect to the various taxation changes announced in the budget. He went on to talk about the principal elements of the Bill, the arrangements for income splitting, package and farm taxation, introduction of a ten per cent rate of corporation tax for manufacturing concerns, the application of excise duties and so on. I do not propose to speak at length or to deal in any great depth with the Bill in its entirety. Rather do I propose to confine my remarks to what the Minister has described as the principal elements in the Bill. I do that because there are provisions, proposals, within the Bill that can have a damaging effect on two of our principal industries and I propose to dwell on these points. I intend to speak as openly and as honestly as I can because I have fundamental objections to some proposals in the Bill. I believe they will affect seriously and adversely two of our principal industries.

Before going on to that I want to endorse sentiments that were expressed on this side of the House during the course of the debate today. The benefits of income splitting for married couples do not exist today because of any unexpected or sudden spurt of generosity on the part of the Government Rather do these benefits, which are available as a result of income splitting to married couples, owe their existence to a decision by the courts, a decision and an action that was opposed continuously by the Government in both the High Court and the Supreme Court. Therefore, the proposals that we have in the budget and in the Bill in regard to income splitting for married couples is a result of a reaction by the Government to a court decision that left them with no other option. It did not come about through a positive decision by the Government to rectify what was obviously an unfair and an unjust situation.

Two industries that will be adversely affected by certain provisions in the Bill are the tourism industry and the agricultural industry. Tourism has come through some lean years and all the indications are that the problems that will face this industry in 1980 will be of serious, if not disastrous, proportions. It is a vital industry. It provides considerable employment and it is a source of earning foreign currency. It has faced many problems in the past but the result of what the Minister has described as discretionary duties on petrol, beer, spirits and cigarettes will have the effect of bringing that industry to the verge of disaster. The outcome of these duties on commodities that every tourist coming into this country must purchase will have the effect of turning thousands of them away from our shores. Anybody who read this morning's papers cannot avoid realising the fears that were expressed at a seminar yesterday in relation to tourism, fears that the downturn in this industry will result in severe losses and substantial unemployment. I am convinced that the duties that were imposed on petrol, beer, spirits and cigarettes were the last straw in weighing the scales against the tourism industry in this island.

The Government and the Minister must be aware of this and must be aware of the damage which these measures are doing to the industry. There will be job losses in hotels and guesthouses, in restaurants and publichouses, in craft shops and souvenir shops, in small home industry if it catered for the tourist trade and, indeed, among tour operators as well. Those extra taxes and their effect on the industry have been reflected in what I regard as a panic measure announced in the past few days by Bord Fáilte offering package holidays to German and Scandinavian holiday makers at between £70 and £80 per week. That figure, which includes car hire and air travel, obviously must contain some hidden subsidy. Whatever advantages the Government expected to derive will be offset by some hidden subsidy element which I am convinced exists behind the proposed scheme. I recognise that the situation is so serious that drastic measures are needed. The point I am emphasising is that the figure now being quoted for holidays here has to contain a hidden subsidy element. There is no doubt that our principal advantage where holidays were concerned was the fact that we offered a low cost holiday in comparison with Continental holidays and holidays on the other side of the Atlantic. Gradually that advantage was eroded over the years and now we are at a disadvantage as a result of the duties to which I have referred.

Another major industry which I believe will be adversely affected as a result of the provisions in this Finance Bill is the agricultural industry. The resource tax, in my judgment, is an unjustifiable measure. Apart from its financial effects, the psychological effect on the farming community, at a time of reducing incomes and contracting returns from their enterprises, will be quite damaging. The agricultural industry has been surveyed recently by people I would describe as independent and objective analysts. They have clearly indicated that agricultural incomes are contracting quite severely. The resource tax is being leyied on that industry without the slightest regard for the capacity of that industry to pay that tax. It is a repressive tax and it is hitting at a time when confidence in the industry is at its lowest point.

Agriculture is a major industry. It is a vital industry not alone for the people who are engaged in it, but also for the nation as a whole. It has shown quite convincingly over the past decade that it has a capacity that is practically unrivalled to respond to good markets, to confidence, to a good return for its output. The nation has benefited from this prosperity. There were more jobs and more exports, and there was increased spending power in our towns and villages. That was important for the economy of rural Ireland. To sustain that development programme, people engaged in agriculture borrowed heavily. Their loans are now being called in.

We are proposing in this Finance Bill to hit them with a taxation measure, a resource tax, at a time when their incomes are contracting and their confidence is shaken. I would ask the Minister, and indeed the Government, to rethink their attitude to the land resource tax. I recognise, in common with many others, that there appears to be an obsession about extracting a predetermined figure of £100 million by one method or other from farm taxation this year. The Minister and the Government should consider the lasting damage they could do by persisting in following this course.

Two weeks ago on the "Landmark" programme on television a graph was produced by Dr. Séamus Sheehy of UCD. Most people will accept that he is an expert in his field. That graph showed that farm incomes based in 1972-1973 at £100 had climbed to £168 in 1977-1978 but at the beginning of 1980 had declined to £119. When you take account of inflation and the effect it had on farm incomes, the real position is that today they are back to the level of almost ten years ago.

There is another effect the resource tax can have on the agricultural industry, that is, its effect on the competitiveness of the industry in the market place. Resource tax and rates are a form of taxation levied without regard to the capacity of the people involved to pay. They are not based on accounts and they are a form of taxation with which our competitors in the other EEC countries do not have to contend. Why not ensure that whatever taxation measures are applied to agriculture are based on accounts and are related to the true capacity of the individual concerned to pay? Why create this obstacle to farming progress? Why create this burden for our farmers with which our competitors in the market places of Europe do not have to contend?

As I said in the beginning, I will Confine my observations to the damage I feel certain measures in the Bill will do to two crucial industries. During the course of the debate some Senators referred to our participation in the EMS. I want to put one brief question to the Minister. How is it that, even though our currency may have held up well within the EMS as opposed to sterling, in relation to interest rates, to inflation levels, and to credit availability, we have had the worst of every conceivable world? All the indications when we joined were that the situation would be otherwise.

In the course of this brief contribution I wish to refer to three areas, namely, job creation, oil prices and pay policy. Before doing so, I should say that I view the main thrust of the Finance Bill before us as aimed at achieving equity in our society at a time of difficult economic conditions at home and in an uncertain international situation characterised by recession and continuing inflation.

On the question of job creation, the Minister has underlined in his speech the crucial importance of the creation of more jobs. The Government have devoted a high proportion of very scarce resources to the productive capacity of the economy. Despite discouraging international prospects, the IDA continue to do an excellent job in attracting new industrial projects. This year the Government have allocated an increase of 21 per cent over 1979 to the IDA to enable them to achieve their target of 30,000 new job approvals in 1980. This is tangible evidence of substantial Government support for job creation. At a difficult time, it is encouraging to note that the IDA are making such progress on jobs, and it is particularly encouraging to note the many Irish people with knowledge, skill and initiative who have developed small and highly successful projects in the manufacturing sector. This provides clear evidence of entrepreneurial talent among our own people who are providing valuable jobs, and it augurs well for the future.

I now wish to refer briefly to the energy question. Again according to the Minister's speech, our oil import bill for 1980 is estimated to rise by 60 per cent in 1980 over 1979. This is a staggering increase. It would be futile and economically dangerous to compensate ourselves through increased incomes for externally determined increases in the price of oil. That would be a recipe for fuelling inflation, as events in 1974 and 1975 so clearly demonstrated. Let us hope that this time round we will avoid that particular trap. The reality is that we are that much poorer following the recent increases in the price of oil. We can compensate ourselves for the £300 million increase in the price of imported oil this year by increases in productivity, and by producing more competitively, but not by paying ourselves more with the same basic production and sale of Irish goods,

This leads me to the question of pay policy. Wage rates have increased in Ireland by 16 per cent compared with 7 per cent in those countries which account for half of the industrial output within the European Monetary System. Ours is a small open economy, vitally dependent on competitively priced exports, those same exports on which we depend for the standard of living that we enjoy. In recent years, particularly, the role, concern and influence of Government have been increasing in the area of pay policy. Workers, when making claims, understandably give considerable weight to price increases and also to how other workers have benefited. Indeed, pressures for comparability and relativity in pay have become a widespread obsession. Unfortunately, similar weight is not given to the effects of pay claims on competitiveness and on employment.

We live in a conflict-prone pressure group democracy, and the current national understanding represents an important step in helping to reconcile the conflicting pressures in Irish society at present. The national understanding has provided an opportunity for trade unions and employers to join with the Government in the formulation of policies on pay, employment, taxation, social welfare and a number of other important areas. This tripartite arrangement, based on an integrated approach to pay bargaining, is acting as a means of achieving consensus in tackling national economic and social objectives.

Turning to the current scene, discussions on another national understanding have begun which again provide an opportunity for seeking common realistic grounds among the three main parties in the industrial relations system. It goes without saying—and this has been echoed several times today—that excessive increases in incomes must be avoided especially in the light of the very tight economic circumstances in which we find ourselves as a nation.

My final point is that one of the main defects of the current national understanding was not to be found in what it contained, but in the fact that it was not adequately explained or got across to workers and to the public generally. The pay clause, and that was only one section of the national understanding, dominated the debate. It was probably seen by many as just another national wage agreement. Of course, the national understanding recognised the need for radical changes in the relationship between the Government and both sides of industry. It broadened the scope of pay negotiations to include policies and action on taxation, employment, health and social welfare, and a wide range of other important issues. Failure to communicate the full range of issues in the national understanding rests with all the parties concerned—the Government, employer organisations and trade unions. The media, too, could have done much more in helping to communicate its full contents.

In conclusion, I would make a plea that, if and when another national understanding is concluded, no effort will be spared to communicate its full meaning and implications to employees and to the public generally.

I notice that the tone from the Government benches has been consistently related to the question of wages, and so on. That story has been going the rounds for a long long time. Leading into international understandings or national agreements, as a rule we get that type of thing. I am not exonerating the previous Government from that. It is usually the pattern from the Government benches. I want to look at it from the other side and try to make the point that the Government have no consuming desire to do away with the inequities that exist in the present social system. The existing social system in Ireland, whether we like it or not, is characterised by inequalities in the distribution of wealth.

I want to refer to figures that have been bandied about for years. Possibly it will be said that these are left wing figures. I do not believe they are. The figures have been quoted and nobody has ever denied them. They have been quoted in many places on many occasions and in very popular areas. The quotation is that the richest 5 per cent of the population possess nearly 85 per cent of the nation's privately owned wealth.

The Minister or his advisers may suggest that this is not the case. They may suggest that there is no truth whatever in it. I am making my argument on the basis that I believe it to be true. If it is true, the huge inequality of wealth is a crucial defect in our system. It affects our society. It is immoral and it is not unifying. It does not help national unity. It prevents national unity because when working people are called on to make sacrifices—at the moment there is talk about the question of a national understanding—they are quite justly resentful of the privileged positions some people enjoy. In the long run, changes in taxation lie at the heart of measures to deal with inequalities. To get back to the figures I quoted, so far as I know, they came from Professor Lyons some years ago when he based these wealth statistics on the returns from estate duties. That was quite a while ago. There have been no recent studies, but nobody has ever contradicted these figures.

That leads me to the question of the wealth tax. The reason the wealth tax was so strongly opposed was that the people who had the wealth, and who had the power to put the pressure on, were beginning to realise that a very good picture was emerging through the inland revenue people of who owned what. We missed a big opportunity. No matter what cliches we use or what argument we use, we are really talking about bringing about equality and unifying the nation. We have lost out very substantially, not on the basis of giving back £20 a week to a very wealthy man who did not need it, but on the basis of the fact that the wealth tax was a start. The main point was to create this base from which you could establish exactly where the wealth was and who owned what. For some reason or other our system does not encourage that kind of investigation or that kind of development. Consequently the wealth tax got the knock.

Income tax is our biggest source of revenue. It exceeds the volume of all our central taxes put together. It is the most important single system of taxation. This fact is very well established. Since the emphasis was placed on it by the many thousands of people who took to the streets in support of a fairer deal, it must be accepted that there is a real belief amongst working class people that the system is inequitable, that the distribution of wealth is inequitable and that nobody has any consuming desire really to get down to cases. I quote the wealth tax as one of the obvious taxes which was not pursued. No great effort was made to keep the base that would have done the research for us so that we would know exactly where the wealth was and how it should be distributed. Possibly an argument might have emerged that 5 per cent of the population did not own 85 per cent of the wealth. I do not think the Figure would have changed substantially. Since nobody has provided different statistics since that study was done, the argument was a fair one by the working class people.

Workers saw the distribution of income as something progressive. They saw it as a means of removing many of the inequalities. The unequal distribution of income caused workers to think the wealthy had some grip on the Government. When the working people took to the streets, both salary and wage earners, they did not do so just on the basis of taxing farmers, although that was the message that seemed to get across. Having listened to many debates throughout the country, I am quite satisfied that workers appreciate that farmers have problems. There was, unfortunately, a reaction from certain people in the trade unions who do not necessarily represent the trade union movement, and also from the IFA, who, instead of getting themselves a good PRO, leave it to the President, or someone else, to react. Consequently the message does not get across that the farmers have a problem the same as anybody else. We are then told there is an urban-rural row going on and nobody tries to explain the fact that there are problems in the farming area. There are such problems. There are two groups of farmers, some with very little income and some with quite a lot of income, and there are many other problems.

I should like to go on record as a trade unionist in saying that we do not really believe it is a clear-cut case of just taxing the farmers. There is a realisation that there are problems particularly in the lower income groups of farmers. They are no different from the lower income groups of industrial workers. I do not like using the word "workers". When I speak about workers. I speak about farmers as well. I should like to stress that point. I hope that, in future, instead of having reactions from people who should know better, something will be done. I recommend that, if farmers have a case, instead of using somebody to jump up and react, they should get themselves a good PRO. I got into a discussion in the midlands and I am quite satisfied that there were people in that hall who are a lot worse off than I am, even though they had some land.

On the other hand there are people in the farming areas who have not been tackled correctly. I am glad the accounts system is the system now. This will put the collection of tax in a proper way. It will be the beginning of something proper in that area. Many allowances and reliefs are set off against incomes before they are even assessed for tax. This puts the ordinary worker in opposition to the people in that area. I do not have any such opportunities. Before they start to be taxed, pre-tax incomes run at about 25 per cent for some people. They probably get away with another 40 per cent of their taxable incomes.

If that is not correct, let somebody say it is not correct, because that is what everybody believes; that is what I believe as a working class person. Cheap loans and expenses for cars for directors and executives are another way of getting tax free income. As a citizen I want to know all about this; I want to know it on behalf of the people I represent here, and I am not trying to detract from the interests of other sections or organised groups in the country. At one time the working classes regarded the tax system as progressive, but they no longer look on it as such. They felt that all the abuses that could be dreamt up were used by those who could buy ideas, pay accountants and so on. This has manifested itself in untold ways down through the years at various annual conferences of unions. It has been very hard for working class people to accept this. They no longer have faith in the income tax system. They do not think it is as progressive as they initially believed it was.

Did the workers gain any benefits as as a result of the tax marches? Let us take the Minister's speech in the budget. There is no point in telling a man with two children and a wife not working who earns £3,000 a year that he is going to have a tax saving of £83.50 which is an increase of 100 per cent when a man who has £30,000 realises a tax saving of £2,252.40 which only amounts to 15.1 per cent. That is irrelevant to a man who only gains £83.50 and it is little use telling him he is doing well. When one takes the wage increases which come after that into account, the situation gets worse. But I do not propose to go on through all the facts in the budget; they are there for everybody to see. People may argue that the best way to deal with taxation is by percentages, but that is another problem that the working classes feel irritated about and consequently they take to the streets in protest. Even though the Irish Congress of Trade Unions supported the marches and I took part in them, we should not have to adopt such tactics to get an equitable system of taxation. I do not like to get into situations that are close enough to political strikes. I agree with industrial strikes if they are warranted. But successive Governments have allowed the situation to drift to this point, and I make no apology for protesting on that basis and not on the basis that I would always consider it a meritorious thing to do.

What anybody paying income tax wants to know is, are the Government really serious about making some substantial progress towards a fairer income tax system? Has anything really happened since the taxpayers were forced to make their protest in the way they did? It would seem that nothing has really been done when comparisons such as the example I have given can be made. The effective starting point for tax has been brought down for the man who gains £83.50. He now has a wage increase and he may be in a little bit of trouble but the other fellow is better off again because he has a higher wage and so on. An awful lot more has to be done in the area of income tax alone, apart from any other parts of the taxation system. It has got to be done in a way that will bring in more revenue, and allow more money to the people who need it and less to the people who do not need it. The present system of income tax is a burden on the lower income groups amongst the working class, and it should be possible to revise the system to give these groups more relief from income tax.

The Government will have to be more diligent if they are to catch the tax avoiders. The loopholes in the system have been allowed to grow. Workers will not be happy until they see some action being taken against the tax avoiders in relation to such things as company cars, cheap loans and so on. We have all been around long enough to know that as soon as one loophole is closed other loopholes are found by the company advisers and legal eagles, with all due respect to the lawyers here present. They look through the Bills to see how they can squeeze through the net. So the wheel spins and people looking in from the outside, who do not fully understand the implications of what is going on, can only hazard a guess and, more often than not, their guess is right. It would be unfair to say that some work has not been done in this area. But it must be demonstrated much more clearly and unambiguously that measures to deal with tax avoidance will be continuous. I would like to hear a bit more about that from the Minister. There does not seem to have been a greater endeavour to tackle the tax avoidance question.

I welcome the increase in the number of tax officers. What I am not too sure about is whether some of them act as a unit within the inland revenue to keep abreast of the whole field of tax avoidance. It is only in this way we can get evidence that there is a regular move to identify appropriate measures. If appropriate measures are found I would agree that there should be no delay in giving effect to those measures by enabling legislation to plug the loopholes. We should not have to wait for the annual Finance Bill for this to take place. I would ask the Minister to comment on that when he is replying and let us know exactly how far this has gone and whether it is the intention to pursue this by bringing in enabling legislation between the Finance Bills. Anomalies must be removed. If we are talking about uniting our people, which generally speaking has been done in this debate, speaking about everyone playing his part by accepting certain levels of income and so on, we cannot speak to one sector only, the wage and salary earners; we have to talk to all sectors. The people who make these pleas must also be seen to be anxious to see that the anomalies are removed. They should be anxious to pursue this aim in such a way as to show that they are really talking about uniting the people and that they are serious in their contributions. They must admit that our society is unequal, that all sorts of dodges exist. The Minister knows it; I know it and the people who took to the streets know it. Let us deal with them.

I want to deal with the question of tax avoidance and tax evasion. Tax avoidance is still legal. Tax evasion is not. In this area workers do not confine their criticisms to one particular class. They do not suggest for one moment that all of their fellow workers are paragons of virtue in this respect. Nor do they suggest that preventive measures should only apply to one type of tax evader. There are professional men who evade tax and self-employed people who avoid tax. There is moonlighting, lumping and so on. As a representative of the working class, I, and workers in general, would welcome a closer scrutiny of those areas. I am not quite certain about the type of action that might be taken. Perhaps there could be greater interchange between the various branches of the inland revenue, customs and excise and so on to get information on proprietory businesses and so on. Having got the information we could then get to grips not only with the abuse of pre-tax incomes and tax avoidance and tax evasion but we could deal with many other areas. If such action is taken we would know that there is a sincere endeavour to see that the inequalities and the anomalies are removed or that the Minister is moving in that direction. I know this cannot be done overnight but it could be done with a little more haste than hitherto.

I would like to deal for a moment with the abolition of the wealth tax. This did nothing to create unity. It helped to make people more entrenched in their views. It made people more doubtful as to whether there was any real intention of creating more employment by removing the wealth tax as was suggested. That has not been accepted by most of the people I have dealt with. They felt that to give a very rich man more money while failing to make the problems of the other taxpayers less acute was nothing short of hackle-raising. It was deliberately provoking. Naturally the hackles of the PAYE people were raised when the abolition of wealth tax was announced. When one adds insult to injury by removing food subsidies on things on which most of the income of the lower paid people is spent one cannot be surprised when the underprivileged suggest that by following that particular line one is making a conscious effort to maintain divisions. That is how it is interpreted. To tax on essentials someone who has a good income is one thing. But to similarly tax somebody who has not got a good income is another thing.

On indirect taxation I feel we have an obligation to see that the broadest backs bear the biggest burden. That is what I have been saying all along. Non-essential goods and services are the areas in which to introduce tax and not the area of necessities. It is often said that the deprived and the poor will always be with us. The reason is that there has been no real effort to arrest the progression of the tax system. Neither has there been any consuming desire on the part of any Government to show that they are keen to work towards the elimination of the anomalies that exist in the tax code.

As an EEC member we are committed to retaining VAT. When one measures the revenue yielded against the substantial costs of administration resulting from it, the employment of extra staff, the increases in the cost of living, the burden on small businessmen, I wonder is it really worth it. What are the figures? If there is extra administration involved, what does it cost?

We should be in the business of resisting the harmonisation of VAT which forces us to tax essential goods and services. We should try to hold down the basic rate of VAT. We are in the EEC now. It is a fact of life but we should try to hold down the basic rate. I remember quite clearly when the 2½ per cent turnover tax was introduced the trade union movement opposed it. We opposed it on the basis of the circumstances obtaining at the time. We would not have opposed such a tax on luxury goods. We felt that it was inevitable that this type of tax would, like everything else in the free enterprise system, convert itself into a bigger monster and, in fact, it has. I will give an example. Let us take the case of a low paid worker, earning £70 a week, paying VAT on essentials. A wage of £70 a week is considered low pay now and out of that he has to support three children and a wife and a home. As against that the man with the income of about £200 a week with a wife and three children will pay £50 in tax but he still has £150 in his pocket after tax. Therefore, if one has to impose indirect taxes one should keep the base rate down and if one has to increase this, one should apply the tax to luxury goods so that the man who has a low income can see that luxury goods and services are being taxed and that he is not being burdened by having to pay tax on essential goods.

Whether we like it or not VAT on essentials drastically affects the lower paid people. So I would urge greater vigilance on this question of indirect taxation. If higher rates must be applied I would urge that they be applied only in the area of luxury goods and services. Having said that, I have no objection to the higher paid person getting essential goods at a lower taxation rate. Equally, since there is such a big gap between his income and that of the lower paid worker—and the gap is very wide in a lot of areas—there is no reason why he should not be taxed on luxury goods and services.

We have to have tax reforms. They are always welcome because everyone looks forward to seeing what benefit he will get out of them. There has to be a taxation system. It is understood, even by the lowest paid worker that he cannot get anything from the State without first contributing something. The big problem is the way in which he has to contribute, the fact that this creates further anomalies and leaves him worse off in relation to the higher paid person than he was before. If people are taxed in that way then the tax reforms themselves and the resulting public spending will not be enough to bring about the massive redistribution of wealth that is necessary to overcome all those problems I have mentioned and the terrible inequity that causes disunity. It may make things a little less unequal for a time but inevitably the tendency is to drift back towards, and beyond, the original position. In order to avoid this there must be constant recognition of how essential it is to set targets for the redistribution of income and wealth and to arrange programmes to do that. In this area we would be very willing to co-operate but we would have to see clear evidence that the Government are prepared to set these targets and arrange programmes to deal with those targets. That would ease a lot of the problems.

Earlier I mentioned the farmers. I would like now to say something further. I said I knew there were low paid farmers and high paid farmers and that certain people were paying tax and that other people were not and that they were in a different situation from the urban worker. I believe that the farm management survey that was published by the Agricultural Institute in 1977 makes this point much clearer than I can. It says that there is now very clear evidence of a consolidation of a situation where there are two quite different sectors in farming, one dynamic and prospering, the other static, and whose farms are showing all the signs of losing their income relativity place when compared with their fellow partners apart altogether from any comparison whch may be made between them and the incomes from non-farming occupations.

I wanted to get that on the record. I am rather anxious about that because there is a lot of unnecessary friction and conflict in this area. To support that point of view, we were not in favour of the 2 per cent agricultural levy because we felt that it could bear hardest on the farmers who should not be dealt with on the basis of having to pay tax at all. We also must make it clear that we believe that the farmers who can pay should be made to do so. We say this in social justice; we do not say it on the basis of taxing the farmer because the PAYE person is taxed. I want to see the rift between the urban and rural areas healed because it damages our national unity and our economy. The sooner the better the evidence is shown to the people who took to the streets that the Government are not only prepared to look at the taxing of farmers but that they recognise that the people who took to the streets did not do so on the basis that certain farmers were not paying their fair share but on the basis of the other taxes which I referred to also.

I mentioned the question of avoidance and evasion and the question of the wealth tax. If we have not got a taxation policy that seems to be equitable then it is going to be much more difficult for anyone to stand up and justify the argument that one sector must put up with accepting index linked incomes and nothing else. The only fixed principle in the trade union movement for trade union officials is the question of arguing wages and conditions. They are not fools and that is why they are debating the question of the national understanding because they know other things affect that and they are as anxious to see that put right as anything else. When they see that other areas are not been effectively tackled they have a right to kick up and they have a right to express themselves in the strongest possible way. It is a pity it had to come to marching on the streets. I hope that this will be the end of that situation but if something is not seen to be done in an effective way very soon we will see the people taking to the streets again. I believe that they are not satisfied that the measures taken to date are in any way progressive and what they are looking for is a progressive tax system.

We have had a very full and wide-ranging discussion and quite an interesting debate today on this Finance Bill. It is quite a complex measure and I am glad the Minister was in the House practically all of the time to hear the very many comments. It can be said that the debate was very constructive. It must be the same in every country where there is no particular section of the population who want or like to pay tax. So it certainly falls to the Minister to design and ensure that the payment of taxes of all kinds will be as painless as possible.

I think that the Department and the Minister and the Inland Revenue, who I am sure do an excellent job, should certainly endeavour to make this Department the most efficient Department in the State. It is unfortunate—and I do not want to dwell on the aspects of administration because it might not be appropriate under this Bill—that the first contact that young people starting into employment have with a Department of State is with officialdom in their endeavour to get a certificate of tax-free allowances. For the first nine months, or indeed up to a year, they are being hurt by the high rate of temporary taxes. This is unfortunate and I hope that the Minister will ensure that the policy of his Department will be to cover this so that we will not start off with our new lot of people coming into the tax net being set off on a wrong footing.

The time has come when the Government should endeavour to give leadership, to enthuse the public and remind them that the services are there but that improved services and higher standards have to be paid for. Therefore, there is an onus on the Government and on the Minister, in particular, to bring about a spirit where there will be greater understanding and where people will get a fairer crack of the whip and that the indolence, if there is any there, will not unduly affect people. It is a constant grudge among people who have been on the dole that when they go back to work, because of this problem I mentioned, they find themselves with less take-home pay than they actually had while they were on benefit.

The Bill before the House is a very complex one. Many aspects of it have been aired. I should like very briefly to deal with Chapter 3, which is the taxation of farming profits, a subject that has been dealt with at considerable length throughout the day. There is a fallacy abroad that considerable numbers of farmers, many categories of farmers, both big and small, do not pay taxes. This is something that needs to be corrected. Not only do farmers pay taxes but the 27 county councils throughout the country are collecting as much money from them this year through rates as they were before the rates on houses were lifted by the Government. Indeed, the main contributors to that fund are the farmers, through the rating system. On top of that they pay income tax. Under section 30 of this Bill they will pay resource tax. They are subject to the capital taxes and they pay a number of levies as well, not only in taxation to semi-State organisations but possibly to different organisations as well. So there is a considerable amount of taxation paid under whichever heading you wish. This is increasing considerably despite the fact that last year farming profits suffered a severe set-back. All the authorative sources, both in the State and in the private sector, have produced figures to show conclusively that last year was not a good year in the farming sector and that this year would appear to be equally bad.

This year the Government and the Minister, in his wisdom, have introduced a resource tax. It is regrettable that this new aspect of taxation has been introduced. I advocated in the past when we were in Government and when it was not so popular to talk about or to advocate taxes that there ought to be a system of accounts. One or two speakers spoke of the new simplified system of accounts. There is absolutely no such thing as a simplified system of accounts. Accounts either add up or they do not and there is no point in saying that there is a new and easy type of accounts. We should not endeavour to fool the public into thinking that there is such thing as half accounts; they are either accounts or they are not.

I see no reason why any sector of the public or any individual should not be subject to taxation. The farming organisations have said that they are prepared to pay their fair share of tax. There seems to be the notion among the urban population that farmers are agreeable to pay their fair share of everything bar hard cash. For those of us who are of the farming community this has been aggravating and damaging because the fact is that numerically the vast majority of farmers do not fall into the taxable brackets. There are thousands of them who in some counties would qualify for the small farmers' dole but who, nevertheless, have to pay not only rates but some tax as well.

The point that is missed in so many areas is the fact that each two holdings are not the same and the situations are quite different from one holding to another. While one farmer may be liable for the resource tax at a valuation of over £70, there need be no indication that he would have an income that would rightly fall into a taxation bracket. In the past few years the inputs into the business of farming have increased significantly with the various price increases and the farmers have not been compensated for that in the prices they have been able to negotiate and find for their produce. It was only last month that the Minister returned from the Council in Luxembourg and announced that there was a bonanza of £100 million increase in incomes for the farming community. This, again, is a misleading kind of statement because I think it is going to be difficult with half the production year gone, especially in the milk area, for farmers to reap the benefit of that package of price increases. At least they will not be able to draw the whole amount, and the Minister should be more forthcoming and perhaps more honest and not mislead people into the great expectation that they are going to fall in for a windfall belatedly from the Community because I doubt very much if that is on. This is the problem we have. Two days after that announcement, at least one if not two co-operative creameries announced a reduction in the price of milk by a halfpenny a gallon. This is misleading and it has created a tremendous amount of uncertainty and confusion in the minds of people in the farming communities, in my own experience and I have been a public representative for 20 years.

I have never before met as many individuals as I am meeting now who are seeking permission from the Land Commission to sell eight or ten acres in order to meet some kind of bank debt or other. This has not been a feature of our representation work in the past. It is unfortunate that it is there this year, and I would have hoped that the Minister and the Government, recognising the difficulty that the country faces at the present time, especially having regard to the policy of the Central Bank and the commercial banks with the extraordinarily high rates of interest, would have found a way to introduce a four or a five per cent interest subsidy for people who have borrowed heavily for capital development productive purposes. That may sound as if some or all sectors of the community are looking for jam on both sides but I am sure the Minister is quite well aware of the prevailing interest rates in the seven European mainland states in the Community and of the discrepancies and the difficulties that our primary producers have in competing with people who have these facilities which are far cheaper than ours. Some of them are as low as 10 per cent, whereas there are many farmers in this country who are paying 22 per cent hire purchase on equipment and up to 20 per cent on ordinary loans. It will not be news to the Minister to hear that this year the banks, because people have not been meeting their repayments or controlling their overdrafts possibly as they have been doing in the past, are also imposing the additional penalties that the banks impose and are forced to impose.

I note that the profits of the Central Bank for last year went to £100 million and I presume that most of that amount would have been taken from the commercial banks by way of fines for not screwing the public tightly enough. This is a deplorable situation at a time when people are quite scared, and I would hope that the Minister would take a lead and give hope and try to instil confidence in the public by asking the lending houses to embark on a holding operation for this year in order to try to ease the burden on people who get no joy out of being in debt. The vast majority of our public are honest and only want to do the best for themselves and their families and, therefore, they should not be treated as if they are criminals or potential criminals. When the difficulty is there, the State and the Minister, not only through his Department, but through his good offices, should try to lighten the load, at least to give hope and to try to bring the country back to some form of progression towards stability and perhaps an easing of the present financial situation.

The increases in taxation on the farming sector, on the rural economy, this year is not just having an adverse effect on the farming industry itself but the Department of Finance and the people who design these grandiose schemes seem to lose track of the fact that the service industry, both the inputs into agriculture and the service industry at the other end—the processing industry—will be affected more adversely than the farmers themselves. You have only to go to any co-operative or any merchant across the midlands at the present time and ask him what he is selling. There is very little moving out of those merchants' premises other than tea, bread, butter and sugar. There is absolutely nothing in the line of machinery. The garages are at a standstill. The people who fabricate the sheds and buildings are having a lean time, and while I do not wish in the least to be a prophet of doom I think that they will find tremendous difficulty in keeping their full complement of employment throughout this year.

This is the kind of situation, and in a rural community such as most of us live in it is not the same if any sector of the public is on the blink. It adversely affects the entire cross section of a parish or of a town. One has not to be a great economist to see the tremendous slow down in prosperity across rural Ireland, and in my own constituency of Laois the latest figures show that we enjoy the lowest income per head of the population in the Republic. This is frightening when we are so dependent on agriculture. Instead of getting help to ease ourselves over the present difficulties, over this present crucial state in Irish farming this year, one has to contend with increases and the introduction of new forms of taxation. Therefore, I would sincerely ask the Minister to consider the possibility of extending or offering to the farming community at least some kind of interest rate subsidy in order to assist people who have borrowed heavily for capital development and productive purposes so that they might be able to embark on a holding operation for the next year or year-and-a-half, for the duration of the present credit squeeze.

Many people during the debate spoke of inflation. Inflation is a very fair kind of malady to have. It affects everybody and every section. It does not discriminate against any particular sector. Somebody reminded us earlier about the grandiose promises and the undertaking that the present Government gave in 1977 on the actual vexed question of prices. Not only do prices affect the housewife, who is certainly having a bad time, but consumers in general and all workers are affected by prices, especially those workers who are driving any particular distance to work. Farm inputs have been adversely affected and there is not a compensatory allowance to balance off in any serious way the effects that inflation have had on prices. The prices received for produce were lower last year than in the previous year. I observe that the local authorities are again doing a holding operation this year. Most of the major road works are at a standstill. The road workers are back with shovels carrying out small jobs along the sides of the roads. The incidence of serious accidents even on the major roads, which are completely in the control of the Department of the Environment, must be attributable to some extent to those roads having been allowed to run down over the last few years to the state where there is an unnecessary amount of danger.

The Minister can produce figures showing that there is an actual increase in the amount of money but because of inflation and the fact that local authorities have been tied down by Government policy to an increase of 10 or 12 per cent on their previous year's estimates these extra moneys are not sufficient, especially since road material prices have increased by more than 30 per cent in the meantime. All of this inflation and the escalation of prices add up to greater escalation for everybody and to a good deal of human suffering.

The Government lack the political will to tackle in a determined manner the entire problem of inflation. Inflation is something that you can talk about but it is something that will not go away. There have to be cures provided and there have to be policy decisions taken.

This country has lost its soul. The public are affected by a tremendous lack of leadership. There is no inspiration and very little hope held out by either the Ministers or the Government. Everybody one meets is taking up a begrudging stance to all and sundry. There is no motivating force to enthuse the people to do that extra little bit for the common good. This reverts back to the fact that the Government took a gamble in order to win the last election by raising the public's expectations and then falling down and not being able to deliver on the promises made. Consequently, everybody is cheesed off completely with public administration and with politicians in particular. We need to embark on a policy of self evaluation to see how and in what way we can redeem the drooping spirit of this country to try and get people to work and to make a contribution to ensuring that this country will continue to be a place worth living in. The Government's outrageous manifesto promises have contributed to the general air of gloom.

The Government need to be straightforward with the people. I have not known any Government speaker to describe the situation factually. I cannot understand how Fianna Fáil Deputies or Senators can go through the country and insist that there is nothing wrong. What may be misleading is that one can see so many cars outside any roadhouse any evening in our towns and villages, thereby giving the impression of prosperity. It amazes me as one individual with perhaps more moderate and mundane habits how people can afford to sport themselves at these public spots most nights of the week.

The Government policies are a restriction on the development of growth in the economy. These policies will be and are directly responsible for the growing number of redundancies that one reads about in the newspapers every day. They will tend to shove up the numbers of unemployed to more than 100,000 this year. We heard much three or four years ago about the problem of youth unemployment. Youth unemployment now is a matter of tremendous urgency but there is very little being said or done about it. The problem of placing young people in employment now is far more difficult than it was three or four years ago. I suppose I could be accused of being a prophet of doom, but in every town that one goes to it is obvious that the school management committees are having great difficulty in meeting the demand for school places. In my own constituency the school entrance age has been raised to six. This is grossly unfair. It means that if a child starts school at six but misses a year through illness he or she will be 20 before he sits for the Leaving Certificate. The Government's order of priorities, whether in this Finance Bill or whatever, must take into account the kind of population we have. Everybody will pay lip service to the tremendous asset this country has in a youthful population but it is not much good saying that if the policies enunciated by the Government do not reflect the needs of a younger population. The House need not take my word for this. If the Minister reads the ESRI reports or the Central Bank's annual report he will see that these facts and figures have been borne out.

This year we note a change in the Government's policy in the field of hydrocarbon oil procurement which in recent years made such an adverse impact on our foreign borrowings and on our balance of payments. I am not convinced that in the long run the consumer—and by the consumer I mean you and me parked beside a petrol pump—are going to benefit significantly financially from this particular change. It has been popular for all and sundry over the years to have a go at bashing the multi-nationals. They were a sitting duck for anybody who had any particular views to express. I would have thought that they were better able to take the bashing, especially from the oil-producing countries but I fear that this change in policy which affects our economy so drastically—I am talking about the entire oil question and the financing of it—is going to put governments, especially the governments of small countries, in an impossible situation vis-a-vis the oil producing countries, small and big. This is more than forcefully borne out by the repercussions we have with us through the Bahrain speech of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. The present situation will give the producing countries too much influence over our Government.

Debate adjourned.
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