Sale of Irish Goods: Motion.

Mr. Hyland

I move:

That Seanad Éireann calls for immediate and sustained backing for the efforts of the Government and the Irish Goods Council in promoting the sale of Irish goods.

I welcome the opportunity of addressing the House. In debating this issue we are supporting and adding our voice to a matter which, because of its very nature, is of basic and fundamental importance to our economic development. I welcome the opportunity too of recognising at this level the very significant contribution made by the body entrusted with the task of promoting the concept of buying guaranteed Irish. I compliment the chairman of the Irish Goods Council, Mr. Tom Hardiman, and the Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Vivian Murray, on their success in the campaign to date. The dedication and enthusiasm they have displayed far exceeds the call of duty. I also welcome the Minister of State. If he pursues this portfolio with the same vigour and determination he displayed in his previous Ministerial position this section of the Department is in very capable hands.

I should like to express my thanks to the many voluntary organisations throughout the country who have, down through the years, supported the efforts of the Irish Goods Council in this important national matter. It is clearly an area of activity where all of us can share a common platform in the national interest. I do not wish to make this debate heavily laden with statistics. The cost to the country in terms of large scale imports is widely known. Its very serious effect on the economy is clearly on record. Perhaps the most telling record of all is reflected in the thousands of homes throughout the country where husbands and wives, sons and daughters, are unable to enjoy the basic right of securing a job and earning their livelihood in their own country. The creation of full employment has been the aim of successive governments, and this national priority has been restated on many occasions. When the Government embarked on a very deliberate policy of job creation, there can be no doubt about its initial success. It is, however disappointing to note that the very welcome trend has been reversed and that unemployment is again on the increase. I do not propose to analyse the many reasons for this undesirable trend, which is due to a number of varying economic circumstances.

One does not have to be an economist to understand that one of the most important factors in increasing and maintaining employment is the market for Irish produce. The most important and most economically favourable market for any country is the home market. In this context the debate is relevant, and I hope our deliberations will jolt the public mind and the public conscience into realising that we all have a very serious responsibility in this regard.

We are a developing economy and we spend thousands of pounds in exploring new markets abroad and we have had considerable success. We welcome the recently announced new markets which Coras Tráchtála have been successful in negotiating abroad. Our products are universally accepted as being goods of quality and value, particularly when they carry the guaranteed, easily recognisable, Irish symbol.

Does it make sense then that our success in export markets is being undermined at home by our failure to support the industries and to purchase the products which are manufactured in them? Many reasons have been put forward for this attitude. My own view is that it is due to a large extent to complacency and a lack of thought on the part of the customer and, in many cases, to the failure of the shop to stock and put on display the produce of our industries. I realise that in some cases there is a genuine price and, perhaps, quality difference. I also appreciate that, particularly for those on low incomes, this is a very important consideration. I do not deny the right of such families to get the best possible value and return from their weekly pay packet. We cannot expect, and I am sure the Irish Goods Council do not expect, people to purchase goods which are substandard or which are not comparable in value with imported products. We are, however, entitled to expect, all things being equal, particularly at this difficult time, that our shops and our supermarkets should give prominence to Irish made goods of quality and value.

I am pleased to note that there has been a positive response from many of our stores to the recent request from the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Tourism to promote Irish goods and to the efforts also of the Irish Goods Council. One of the great problems in the past is that this effort has not been sustained. It is here that the customer can exert his influence, by continuing to ask for the home produced product. Another important issue is the influence of multinational combines on the Irish market. We all know that the small shopkeeper is under considerable pressure, and I regret very much the disappearance of the traditional family grocer. They provided a personal service and, at times, a social service.

In the economic environment in which they now operate, many of them are forced to sell the imported product if it is more attractively priced. Multinational syndicates have a serious obligation to our country in ensuring that they do not use their vast resources to undermine this important aspect of our economy. I have strong reservations about the long-term effect and benefit of such multinationals on our commercial life.

We are all genuinely interested in economic development. Our programmes succeed or fail for various reasons. Many of our policies are difficult to implement. Could it be that what we are discussing here is too simple a solution to the problem? It does not, for instance, require massive borrowing, there is no element of compulsion about it, its success is completely dependent on the voluntary decision of each and every one of us. If so, it reflects lack of concern on our part for our future. If we are lucky to be in secure employment it reflects a degree of selfishness and a lack of concern for those who are less fortunate. These may be strong words, they may be provocative words, but strong words are needed at this time to stir the public conscience.

Every factory that closes, every man and woman who loses a job, every school leaver who fails to get work, will cost the Exchequer and the individual many thousands of pounds. We are all familiar with the increasing costs of financing government policies. We complain about the growing volume of taxation necessary for this purpose and, yet by our own actions, we seriously undermine one very important aspect of economic development. The so-called imaginary savings of cheaper imported goods is outweighed by the increase in taxation which is necessary to meet that situation.

The retail sector is a very crucial link between industry and the consumer, and the Irish Goods Council have been correct in aiming their programme to influence the retail sector into thinking positively about promoting and selling Irish made products. They must be made to realise that a depressed manufacturing sector means a reduction in consumer expenditure and a loss of retailing profits and, therefore, what may seem to them to be a short-term gain can, in the long term be a substantial loss. The success of this campaign is an educational process. Young people who, in the long term, will be the real beneficiaries have a very important role to play. The long-term necessity of supporting Irish products should be promulgated through our schools, and I would like to see a situation where our teachers, who have been to the forefront in community leadership down through the years, taking on this important national role of trying to encourage and promote in the schools the importance of purchasing and supporting Irish industry. The influence of our young people in shaping our destiny and our future is very important and they have a very significant contribution to make.

We must ensure that our teachers and our students alike understand the economic necessity to support the "Buy Irish" campaign. One area of organisation within this country which is largely untapped and which has a very important role to play is the trade union movement. I was very pleased during the week to read their official magazine Liberty and to find that the editorial comment called on trade unionists all over the country to recognise the serious situation prevailing and that they should, in the national and in their own interest, support the campaign.

If the trade union movement put its full weight and its full support behind this campaign, they would achieve tremendous results. I call for a very definite and positive commitment from all aspects of the trade union movement at this time for all Irish workers to support the actions and the campaigns of the Irish Goods Council. It is in their own interests that they should do this.

There are other areas where there is scope for further promotion of Irish made products. Purchasing officers in State bodies are not always conscious, as they should be, of the need to buy Irish products. There has been an improvement in this respect in recent years. It is only fair to say that very many of them now recognise the importance of buying Irish. There is no excuse for any purchasing officer in any public body to buy an imported product if a similar product of quality is available.

There is room for further improvement and further expansion. We all know and recognise the important contribution which the Industrial Development Authority has made in relation to the establishment of new industries. In recent years they have been successful in their import substitution drive. There is tremendous scope for the manufacturer of numerous small items which are at present being imported. I hope the drive, which was so successful over the last couple of years, will continue and that we will eventually reach the stage where every component which is imported into this country, if it is possible, can be manufactured here. It is laudable and desirable to do so.

As a farmer, it annoys me considerably to see the very high food import bills. We are an agricultural economy. We have a soil and a climate which is capable of producing a very wide range of agricultural products. We should be able to process all those products in our factories to the betterment of our agricultural industry and the workers of this country. Yet, for some strange reason, we find it necessary to continue to import massive amounts of foodstuffs from abroad which could and should be produced and processed in this country. There is a lack of organisation, endeavour and seriousness. I hope that this is one aspect of economic activity which could be developed and improved in the future.

I know we will get constructive comments and that the motion will be supported by Members from all sides of the House.

Miss Harney

I second this motion and congratulate the people who tabled the motion, Senators Hyland and Mulcahy. Unfortunately, Senator Mulcahy is away and unable to be here today. This is one of the most important items that we have discussed for some time. It is particularly relevant between now and the few days before Christmas, when millions of pounds will be spent by Irish shoppers buying gifts for their children, that we should devote some time to urging the community, every section of it, to spend more money on home produced products. In so doing we are not urging people to buy goods of an inferior quality. Neither are we urging them to buy goods that are more expensive, but thanks to the efforts of the IDA, through the assistance of the Irish Goods Council, Irish products are available and they are up to the standards of imported products and just as cheap. Because of the efforts of Córas Tráchtála in promoting our goods abroad Irish products are now available at cheaper prices than goods that are imported. I join Senator Hyland in congratulating the Irish Goods Council, their Chairman, Tom Hardiman and their Chief Executive, Vivian Murray, for the work they have done on our behalf in promoting the "Buy Irish" campaign. They have ensured that many thousands of Irish people remain in jobs and that many of our young people will have jobs that they might not otherwise have had.

We are told that if 3 per cent of the consumer bill switched from imported goods with a similar switch in industrial standing to home produced goods, 10,000 jobs could be created in this country. Earlier this year the Taoiseach made a very special plea to all shoppers when he asked them to spend £1 more per week on home produced goods. By so doing, they would be helping in the development of our economy and making sure that more jobs are available to all Irish people, particularly to yound people. We are now witnessing the effects of a world recession. We have had a 30,000 increase in the unemployment figures in the past year. What better way for us to help control the unemployment figures than by going out and buying Irish goods that are available? President Kennedy once said "Ask not what your country can do for you but rather what you can do for your country". The best possible thing that any Irish patriot could do would be to look for and purchase Irish goods. If those goods are not easily available, there is nothing wrong in asking the shop assistant.

I would like here to pay tribute to many of the big stores in the Dublin area who over the Christmas season have placed an assistant on their information desk to advise customers of the range of Irish goods available and in what part of the shops they are to be found. I had a case recently of going to purchase something and I had actually to ask were there any Irish goods available. I was told there were and the assistants went back behind the counter and came back out with the Irish goods. People in the retail business have a vital role to play in making sure that their staff are aware of what exactly the Irish goods are and of making sure they bring these to the attention of all shoppers. It would be a useful exercise if more and more of our department stores engaged in seminars or information classes which I know the Irish Goods Council have arranged from time to time to make sure that all shop assistants are aware of the important function they have. They are ambassadors for Irish trade, and when people go into a shop they will not be able to buy Irish goods unless they are available to them and unless they know they are there.

This is an important motion from another point of view. Very often in this country we suffered from an inferiority complex when it came to anything that was Irish. We were told it was not available in the same quality or it was much more expensive. As a nation we have a very big role to play in changing attitudes to our own home produced goods and in making sure that we support our own people and our own manufacturers. The media have a role to play, in particular RTE. There are very many morning programmes which have a tremendous impact, especially on the housewives of the country. There is a programme every morning hosted by Gay Byrne and people like this have a role to play in urging shoppers, housewives in particular, to look for Irish goods and to buy them. We must make sure that we do not have this apologetic inferior attitude to our own people and our own manufacturers.

It is also important not only in the buying of goods of a material nature but goods like services that we promote our own industries. Again I would refer to the role of Radio Telefís Éireann in the playing and promotion of Irish music and Irish records. I am not just talking about traditional Irish music; there is Irish popular music too and many of our artists are suffering the effects of the recession. If it were not for the fact that they have other vehicles like dance halls and so on many of them would never be in existence. RTE could play a role by playing more Irish records, by promoting more Irish artists, as they did in Sweden when they promoted ABBA and they did in Canada when they promoted Anne Murray to be international world stars. This is all part and parcel of the "Buy Irish" support campaign which we are all trying to encourage.

I was delighted to read recently of an EEC survey publication which showed that the Irish people were improving their attitudes to their own goods and industries. It showed that the percentage of people who felt that Irish goods were of a similar or superior quality to foreign goods had increased in the years 1975 to 1978 from 63 per cent to 71 per cent. It is not a big increase but it is significant that at last our own people are going to have faith in our own industries. It is extremely important that we encourage that.

Senator Hyland referred extensively to the work of the Irish Goods Council, and they on behalf of the community and the Government are promoting a very extensive Buy Irish campaign. At the moment they have under way the biggest promotion ever launched in this country. The sum of £¼ million was spent in the preChristmas promotion to encourage people through advertisements, seminars, slides of the council's activities, to think Irish and to buy Irish. It is very important in organising events of this nature, any sort of promotional work, that we involve school children, because people at a very early age now are spending quite an amount of money. If they get into the pattern of thinking in terms of buying Irish from an early age when they first start to shop for very small things, they will continue along that path. I would like to see many more schools, teachers and principals encouraging this type of activity and encouraging their children to be involved in the many competitions and promotional efforts being made by the Irish Goods Council.

The Irish Goods Council, too, help manufacturers and retailers. They do not just make information available to consumers and urge them to buy. Obviously they will not be in a position to buy the goods if the goods are not available. I am delighted to see that 1,000 Irish companies are now registered under the Guaranteed Irish sign. If a consumer buys something that carries the Guaranteed Irish sign, he is not just buying something that is made in Ireland but is also getting the guarantee that he will have after sales service. This is very important. If a person buys a faulty item or something that does not conform to the stated quality, he has some redress. The Irish Goods Council, through their Guaranteed Irish campaign, have guaranteed that if the consumer does not get satisfaction when he brings faulty goods back to the retailer they will take up the case on his behalf. It is a very important fact that must get home to people, that they have after sales service and that they are being guaranteed that the goods will be of a certain quality. Of course the recent passing of the Sale of Goods Act will also help here in giving consumers more power when it comes to purchasing items.

Senator Hyland also referred to the role of the semi-State bodies in the promotion of the Buy Irish campaign. It is essential that they too play their full part and also all the Government Departments. I recently travelled on a CIE train and I was horrified to see that the little carton of jam they serve was a British product. I know it is available here because it is made in Drumshanbo, County Leitrim. That is a shame.

Professor Murphy

The EEC is the cause of that.

Acting Chairman (Séamus de Brún)

Senator Harney to continue, without interruption.

Miss Harney

Yes, but CIE could purchase Irish-produced jam. I would like to join with Senator Hyland in urging all the people involved in the purchasing sections of all our semi-State bodies and all our Government Departments to make sure wherever possible that if the goods are available, made in Ireland, they be purchased and made available to the Irish people.

Our marketing system in Ireland, particularly in our big shops and in the retail industry generally, has not always been up to the standards that one would like. Very often, as Senator Hyland said, you go into a shop and you just cannot see the Irish goods because they are not clearly on display. Very recently there was a promotion by many of the big department stores where they had an all Irish section or an all Irish week. It is important they they would have the Irish goods to the forefront and that they would be clearly identified as having been made in Ireland. If Irish people can see their own home made goods they will be prepared to buy them once they are sure that the goods are of the same quality—as in most cases they already are—as the imported goods. In many cases they are of a far higher standard. Many Irish fashion designers and fashion manufacturers have won world prizes in recent years, and I would like to see more women when they go out to buy fashion thinking in terms of buying Irish coats or Irish dresses because they are available and they are of a very high quality.

The future of our country depends in a very real way on how we respond to the efforts of the Government through the Irish Goods Council in their current promotional campaign. We are going through a recession. We are going through a very difficult time for employment, and not only will more jobs he created as a result of our buying more Irish goods but the current jobs which are under threat—there are many Irish firms now on a three-day week—will be secured and they will be back to a full working week if all of us play our part by doing as the Taoiseach said—spending £1 more per week, and that is not a lot, on Irish goods. If we do this we will, in a very real way, help our community and our economy and we will make sure that our young people have some future in Ireland with some chance of employment. We will be the patriots of the future, because patriotism now does not involve dying or anything like that. All it involves is supporting everything Irish and promoting, in our own way, through the various clubs and organisations we belong to, Irish goods and Irish manufacturers.

All of us involved in public life have a role to play at whatever meetings we attend of our own political parties or of other organisations in the next two weeks in urging people, as they go out to shop in the tremendous bonanza that takes place before Christmas, to buy more Irish goods.

I would like to second this motion and in so doing pay tribute to the Government and the Irish Goods Council for the tremendous work they have done. I ask them to continue urging the people, in particular the shoppers, our young people through the schools, our ladies through various ladies clubs and the ICA and all the various powerful organisations in the country, to play their role not only in the next two weeks but throughout the coming years, and to make sure that everything Irish is supported and that we play our part in the development of the Irish economy.

Mr. Governey

I take this opportunity of welcoming the Minister of State on his first appearance in this House in his new role and I wish him well.

I am very pleased to have the opportunity to add my few words in support of this motion tabled by Senator Hyland and Senator Mulcahy. I, too, should like to congratulate and pay tribute to the members of the Irish Goods Council for their terrific involvement, their dedication and the work they are doing in promoting the sale of guaranteed Irish goods. It is especially important at this time of the year when the country is on a shopping spree. It is a particularly good time when we, as public representatives, should voice our opinions and encourage the public to support Irish produce and guaranteed Irish goods. I should like to join in the appeal to all section of the community to play their part, not alone during the coming few weeks, but in the future to see that they ask for and get Irish goods when they go shopping. Under the Guaranteed Irish sign or label one is assured of quality and value.

At the present time, this appeal rings a special chord for me because we are all fully aware in this House of the present recession in which we find ourselves. We know of the unemployment figures published yesterday of 115,000. I am convinced that we must spell out that these figures can be reduced if everybody plays his part in supporting Irish goods and Irish industry. We have the workers, the expertise and the goods; that only leaves us to get the purchasers for these goods. It is here that the Irish Goods Council are certainly playing an excellent role. We must make this appeal on the lines that by supporting our Irish industries we are protecting jobs. Too often today we see businesses in difficulties which could be helped by the support of the Irish public and Irish shoppers to keep people in employment. With many businesses and firms in what I could only describe as serious difficulties, it was never more necessary that we should support and purchase the products of these Irish firms.

No matter what we say here or no matter how industry and the Irish Goods Council play their part, it can be all to no avail unless we get the message across to the public in general what they are protecting when they insist on getting Irish goods. I am happy to say that I am one who always insists on Irish gods if I go shopping. Generally in the retail trade now we find that Irish goods are produced more freely than perhaps 15 or 20 years ago. This is all to the betterment of the economy, the betterment of our workers and of the country in general.

One of the previous speakers mentioned the question of displaying goods of Irish manufacture. In the shops at the moment, while we would like to see more, there is a fair display of Irish products. If there are some still who are inclined to leave our Irish products in the back end of the shelf or in the dark corner of the shop, they should bring them forwar and let them be seen. We can stand over anything that is produced in this country, especially when it has a guaranteed Irish sign on it.

Earlier this evening I was reading through the Irish Goods Council News No. 3 and regarding the participation of the Irish Goods Council at the winter fair in the RDS I quote the following:

Commenting on the Irish Goods Council's decision to back the food exhibition, Ms. O'Sullivan pointed out that there is tremendous concern about our food import bill of which over £100 million constitutes competing imports.

That is a frightening figure to me and deals purely with food imports. Why that alarming figure should be there is beyond my imagination. I know that it is correct and we have increasing food imports. Increasing quantities of vegetables are being imported into the country; carrots are being imported from Italy and France in the early season and in the main season we have onions, cauliflowers and carrots from places such as the United Kingdom. Apart from our home market, with our natural advantages for vegetable production, we should be expanding in the fresh vegetable export business. There is a considerable opportunity in this type of business for this country.

In my own town of Carlow, the board of the Irish Sugar Company decided on a closure of Erin Foods, their processing company. The reason I cannot fully understand, when we think of the import bill this country is facing I am convinced that there is considerably opportunity, even at this late stage; for Erin Foods in a combined fresh and processed vegetable enterprise. An immediate and comprehensive examination of this potential is required without delay because while we are promoting Irish goods the closure of this firm is to take place next June.

If there are no contracts for vegetables for the coming spring. it might be very hard to get the people who have been so loyal over the years in growing vegetables for that firm to come back again after a lapse of a year. In that respect I have a certain concern, and I have spoken to the Minister for the Department of Agriculture — I know it is not the direct responsibility of the Department of Industry and Commerce — and I have left some questions with him which he said he would have answered for me. The Irish Independent on 10 December has a headline “Buy Irish for £11 million Extra”. It is a frightening heading when you read it at first, but in fairness I could not stand here tonight and ask people to buy Irish if I were to be critical of the step that was taken in that case. I do not understand, and I would not be an expert of course, why there is such a big difference between the price of a ship produced here and one imported.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I would remind the Senator that his time has just expired.

Mr. Governey

The Government are taking the decision to subsidise the difference in the price. In the interest of Irish industry and promoting the Buy Irish campaign I would suggest that in the case of Erin Foods the Government should decide to subsidise that industry, if necessary, to keep it going for another 12 months and see what comes out then of the investigations I have suggested.

Professor Murphy

I am happy wholeheartedly to support this motion and I will always be glad to support motions of this kind. That is why I made such a plea for the interests of native filmmakers earlier in the day. It seems to me that it all hangs together, as Senator Harney suggested, and that the "support Irish" motif runs across the whole field of business and culture. In a sense this is a non-contentious motion. It is rather like being against sin in the days when sin was sin.

I note that this is the second time Seanad Éireann has addressed itself to this topic in the current session. On 26 April 1978 we had a similar motion brought by the same team that brought you tonight's motion, except that on that occasion Senator Mulcahy proposed the motion. Senator Harney was a very able understudy indeed, and I must apologise to her for unthinkingly ruminating out loud when she mentioned the presence of foreign preserves in CIE.

We had that debate and I think it is unusual that we should be having virtually the same debate two years afterwards. Apart perhaps from Nothern Ireland and thecustomary debates on EEC reports I do not think we return to the same topic after such a brief interval. It underlines its importance but it also raises obvious questions. Why should it be necessary for us to debate this again and say the same things? Why should it be necessary to spend in the present phase of the campaign £250,000 on a promotional campaign to buy guaranteed Irish goods? It certainly raises all kinds of questions as to why people are not buying Irish. Has any survey been made on this topic? It is now customary to undertake surveys at the drop of a hat on all kinds of topics. Perhaps Senator Hyland or Senator Harney could inform me whether the Irish Goods Council or a similar body are acting in the dark or are they aware of popular attitudes on this matter? Certainly there is something very wrong, given our history, national aspirations and given the assumption that political independence would mean economic prosperity. It is quite extraordinary that people apparently will not buy Irish in sufficient numbers to make an economic difference.

The Fianna Fáil pre-election manifesto made a definite statement that if we could switch three pence in the pound of spending to Irish products in three years it would yield 10,000 extra jobs. I never understood then, nor do I understand now, how this figure was arrived at. However, I accepted the general principle that buying Irish would reduce unemployment somewhat. My point is that it is very curious that for some reason people simply cannot be led, induced, bribed or threatened to buy Irish or to buy it in a sufficiently important manner. It may be our history. Our history would have left a residue of servility and of the slave complex as well; people even in 1980 will tell you, or perhaps will only half tell you because they are half ashamed, that "You cannot really trust the Irish product." After all the promotional campaign there is still a popular resistance which should be scientifically investigated.

I make no secret about repeating some of the ideas I expressed here on the last occasion. I want to point out also that the notion of supporting Irish manufactured products is, of course, one that did not happen today or yesterday. It has a long ancestry and we might call it by the shorthand of economic nationalism or patriotism. It is a long time since in the early 18th Century Swift wrote his proposal for the universal use of Irish manufactures. What is interesting about that is that Swift's plea — although he would not have meant by Irish what we understand by Irish — fell on deaf ears. It would seem that a plea like that made in isolation has little effect.

It is significant that only when there was the patriotic and the political fervour of the Volunteer movement at the end of the 1770's was there a great popular rush to buy Irish. In that day and age the phrase was non-importation. Grattan's Volunteers themselves made a great play of buying native cloth for their uniforms. At the beginning of this century the Gaelic League, in that whole ferment of nationalist fervour, had as one of its main planks the economic objective that people should buy Irish goods. It should never be forgotten for the Gaelic League that it was one of the economic props on which the national movement was founded, as well as being a cultural base. An Claidheamh Solais pointed out in 1901 that jobs could be saved and emigration lessened by buying home-manufactured goods. The economic message was accepted in an age of patriotic conviction and patriotic fervour, a fervour which endured in a way into the 1930s and 1940s when there was an intermittent but lengthy campaign to buy Irish goods. The slogan at that time was “Buy Irish, be Irish.”

My question is, can we really ask people to buy Irish now because they are Irish? Do we have anything like the same patriotic fervour that we had even in the thirties? I suggest we do not, because in those days people believed, maybe naively, but there was some substance in their belief, that you could have control over the national economy, that you could actually in your own State make effective laws to improve economic matters. I do not think people believe that any more. They have been listening for ten years or more to EEC propoganda which has half suggested to them — and I got it in this House from people over there who are no longer with us, happily — who more or less suggested when I put forward a patriotic line that I was "old hat" and not with it and that to be patriotic today was to be European. That kind of propaganda has been having bad results in that people will say to themselves "What is the difference between buying Italian shoes and buying Irish shoes if we are all in the same Community?" Even the word "Community" is pregnant with the idea of family. Their attitude will be: "Why should I buy the product of Ireland rather than that of Italy, whose people are our brothers, after all?" I am putting this forward in all seriousness. The EEC propaganda has diminished our commitment to buying Irish. We have not the control over the economy anymore. We either have multinationals who pull out when it no longer suits them to stay or we have a commission in Brussels issuing directives to us that a particular line is overproduced and, therefore, should be cut down on. In these circumstances people might well ask, what is the point of supporting Irish products if we are no longer sure how long they are going to be with us or if the control of the economy is no longer our own?

Apart from that general point, it may well be objectively that a campaign like this is alien to the spirit, if not to the actual letter, of the European Economic Community. I come back to the point I made when I was apologising to Senator Harney. I, too, noticed the fact that our semi-State company, Córas Iompair Éireann, offers non-Irish jams and preserves. My understanding is that under EEC regulations they may not withdraw these British preserves. I do not know if that is correct but I would like the experts to make a comment on that. I remember sitting in on a Dáil Question Time not so long after having that debate in April 1978 and I remember a Minister answering rather ruefully along those lines to that very question of why Irish products were not being pushed by CIE.

Having expressed these reservations, having wondered perhaps whether it is not rather too late to be pushing this campaign, nevertheless I support it. I am glad also to pay tribute to the excellent work done by the Irish Goods Council. I note that in its most recent issue there is no reference whatsoever to membership of the Community. You might ask why. If you are talking about pushing Irish manufactured goods particularly, it seems like Hamlet without the Prince to ignore the fact that much of our unemployment, and much of the decline particularly of our industrial goods, has been due simply and clearly to EEC membership.

Although I suspect that it is rather too late, and although I suspect that even if people took the campaign seriously it would be like a drop in the ocean, I am still glad to be able to support it. Like Senator Governey, I also am always anxious to ask for the Irish product when I go shopping, I hope all Members are like that. I hope that if there were an inspection of our personal apparel from top to toe we would not be discovered wearing Conte suits.

Mr. Dowling

I wish to add my voice to the voice of the other Senators in support of this particular motion. I often think that the term itself "Buy Irish" is far too simple. There is quite a lot more to it than has been expressed here. I feel that what we do today may affect the product of tomorrow and that in a cost-conscious society the product of tomorrow emanates from action taken today. Earlier today, as chairman of the Fianna Fáil trade union group, I had the opportunity of visiting Bee Line, a textile factory in Ballyfermot, where they produce garments of a very high-class nature. The workers are working under excellent conditions in an excellent factory, with superior technical know-how, with efficient management and efficient training. All these factors go hand in hand with the production of items for the future.

I believe that if production units do not keep abreast of modern technical development and are concerned about just producing for a particular period or a particular season they are going to be lost in the markets of the future. The Government will have to ensure that we keep abreast of developments in relation to the microchip and other forms of modern technology to meet the competition of the future. It has been rightly pointed out that we are a member of the EEC and that business is more competitive now than it has been in the past.

I want to support the motion fully. Many young people are employed in the factory I mentioned. They are being trained and are guaranteed in some way job opportunities in the future because this concern has kept abreast of technological developments and are dealing with the question of future costs. They have done the necessary surveys. It is essential that factories carry out extensive surveys and studies if they are to compete successfully in markets.

The whole matter of the "Buy Irish" campaign rests at the moment on the shoulders of the trade union movement. Their members are affected in many cases but they neglect to enforce their viewpoint on their own members. They could in a very real way ensure that a greater emphasis is put on the "Buy Irish" campaign. I do not think it is enough to print in one of their magazines an indication that they support the "Buy Irish" campaign. I think something more imaginative and more forceful should come from the trade unions. They should ensure that their own members are fully protected by the directives or by the support that they could give. Indeed, housewives must realise, too, that their husbands' jobs are at stake, as is the future of their children. The community as a whole must feel they have a collective rather than an individual part to play. What is required is a concentrated effort across the board rather than individual groups making pleas on particular occasions. That stimulus must come from the trade union movement, on the point that the jobs of their members and of their sons and daughters will be protected if all members of families purchase Irish goods. It is far too simplistic just to say "Buy Irish".

Mention has been made of the Italian shoes, French perfumes, Scotch whisky and Dutch cheese: all these are sometimes regarded as the "in" thing, but the quality is often inferior to our own. Members of both Houses have a role to play in encouraging people to buy Irish. I think our voice should be directed to the organisations that can best get to the ears of the workers concerned and so ensure that the voice comes across loud and clear. I am disappointed that members of the Labour Party have not seen fit to add their voice to this very important motion. It may be an indication of their interest and that of the trade unions in the "Buy Irish" campaign. I would have hoped on an important motion like this that every Member of this House would add his or her voice loud and clear to the "Buy Irish" campaign to ensure that jobs are protected.

It is rather regrettable that we have sections of the Oireachtas who show no concern on this particular occasion in relation to this very real and pressing problem. Without the representatives of the trade union movement it is going to be difficult for Members of this House to penetrate the trade union movement. I am quite certain that the trade union movement will listen to their own leaders and their own elected representatives, but when they fail to respond here, then we see the great difficulties we are faced with in the Oireachtas and indeed in society in getting through to people.

We can keep abreast only by updating ourselves on the matter of modern technology. The Government have done much to ensure that the necessary aids are available. Where industries are really concerned about continuity of production and about producing products in a cost-conscious society, they should be fully and effectively supported.

I had an opportunity today, together with other Members of the Oireachtas, to visit a factory and we were pleased to find the great depth of research that had been done in relation to the market and the product. I should like to pay a compliment to the management of Beehive for the manner in which they are conditioning the workers to the technical developments and technical aids that are all so important for the future. In addition the conditions under which they are working indicate their desire to ensure that the workers will be happy. A happy worker will respond not only to the voice of Members of this House or members of the trade union movement but indeed to any patriotic suggestion that would ensure not alone the continuity of his own job but also that of his neighbour.

Mr. Connaughton

I should like to congratulate the movers of this motion. It is a very useful exercise. I was not aware until I heard Senator Murphy say so that we debated this subject two years ago. I would also like to pay a compliment to the Irish Goods Council. That goes without saying because it is very important in all our interests that this campaign be successful.

There are a few aspects of this that I would like to take up. I would have to say that despite the best efforts of the Irish Goods Council, and I will assume that they would be the first to agree, their present campaign to date has not been as successful as they would like. I am not talking about the financial input. What I am talking about is the actual response in the purchase of Irish goods by Irish people. It has been mentioned already here this evening that we are talking about a tremendous number of jobs lost because ordinary Irish folk will not buy Irish products. Some 10,000 prople are currently on the dole because we do not care as an Irish society to support Irish goods.

It is true to say that our country, in keeping with many other countries in Europe, is gripped by materialism. As Senator Murphy said, the days of patriotism, in the way we would like to interpret it, are certainly gone. Some of the so-called patriots who have the answer to all our problems would appear to overshoot the runway when it comes down to how best we can be Irishmen. I will not labour the point.

It must be said that the various types of promotional work carried out by the Irish Goods Council have not been successful. Perhaps we have come to the point where we have to provide more favourable incentives to purchase Irish goods. There are a number of important points in the chain of the sale of a product that maybe the Irish Goods Council should take up. We have arrived at a situation where very few people will do anything now other than when it suits them or when there is something out of it, and I mean financially.

Perhaps the Irish Goods Council should consider paying people who are engaged in important areas in the chain of distribution from the manufacturer until the product meets the consumer. The time might now be ripe for it. Let us consider the role of the shop assistant. I am not talking about a direct subsidy because I quite understand that is not on at the moment, but perhaps that asaistant might be encouraged to realise it is in her own best interests to make sure that every customer who comes through the door is first shown the best of the Irish products. We will all have to be realistic and accept that if a customer says he or she will have nothing to do with an Irish product there is nothing that can be done, but that is not the case. From my own experience I believe that a great percentage of people have a reasonably open mind about products. Perhaps the Irish Goods Council could come up with a scheme on the basis that there would be some type of a prize, award or recognition for a shop to increase its sale of Irish goods and eventually there could be across the country people engaged in promoting the purchase of Irish goods. I realise this will cost money but if we can put 10,000 extra people in jobs we are talking about millions of pounds.

No longer do we have a patriotic attitude with regard to the "Buy Irish" campaign. In provincial centres and small towns, perhaps, the local town development associations could organise a scheme similar to the Bord Fáilte Tidy Towns Competition, involving the traders of the town in a promotion to buy Irish. The ordinary folk behind the counter and the shopowners must be involved to that extent, where they firmly believe on one hand that they are getting something financially out of it and also that they are doing a good day's work for Ireland. That special relationship that will be built up will be very important. One has to have doubts about television and radio advertising. However all the polls will show that it is the only way to get an instant message across to a community.

We are quite well aware that advertising comes into the homes of nearly everybody at one stage or another during a given night. The multiplicity of the types of advertising has made people very hazy about the whole thing and a situation has almost arrived where many do not really believe what they see on the advertisements. Any people involved in advertising can make a great case that this is the only way to advertise, and I will accept that. However, its usefulness over the years is not increasing and a lull is coming, because it is one firm competing against another, with glossy, JR-type situations. We saw fit to bring JR over for a Department of Agriculture advertisement. If that is the answer to the problem, you would merely need to bring over the entire gang from Southfork and the Irish Goods Council would have no problem, but it is not that simple.

As Senator Dowling said, the trade union movement obviously have a very big say in all this as, indeed, the farming co-operatives have. I will not detain the House too long, but in the activity about which I know most, it is true to say that some of our bigger farming co-operatives are promoting items like Findus Foods on the same basis as, or even at times more so than Irish products. When you consider that the Irish co-operative movement is the heartbeat of rural Ireland and has been over the years, somewhere or another there must be some reason for this particular type of promotion where equal shelf space and display are given to imported and Irish products. Let me be clear about this, any Irishman or woman should not buy an Irish product which is inferior, or is dearer. We have problems in industry, and in agriculture for that matter, from the point of view of quality control, but that is subject for another debate at another time. I am quite certain that there is a tremendous number of Irish products that can take their place beside anything that comes into this country, but they are not getting a fair crack of the whip.

I suggest that we are arriving at a very dangerous stage because of our European involvement. Our big co-operatives in certain parts of the country at least, are beginning to be taken over now by multi-nationals and, indeed, we would want to be careful of the big supermarket chain stores as well. It is a well known fact that big business can be a dramatic thing from a purchasing power point of view, and we will soon arrive at a situation where even a national Government has little control over the actual goings on in that particular state vis-àvis big business.

I would certainly hope that our laws would always ensure that there is a fair chance for people in business in a smallish way. We had some talk recently about supermarkets, how big they should be and what have you, and RGDATA are very concerned about this. All those things are inter-related, but if the Irish Goods Council do nothing other than what they are doing at the moment, however impressive it might be — and it is impressive and, indeed, they are to be congratulated on the quality of their advertising, particularly of late — we shall not get anywhere. It takes a long time to change attitudes, and unless there is something in it for the people we hope to influence, we will not get very far.

I have a sneaking suspicion, but cannot prove it, that a tremendous number of items imported into this country are being sold to the retailers — and, in fact, to the wholesalers — at prices that would be regarded as of a dumping nature. There was a craze a few years ago when every woman in Ireland went wild about Italian shoes. Now I understand that they have a fairly good name, but it is true to say that many of the shoes bought under an Italian label let their manufacturers down very badly. We should have some monitoring system whereby we would know that the products that came on the Irish market came at a realistic price. Wholesalers and retailers sometimes get a great rake-off on some of those products, and that would be one reason why they would go all out to ensure that these were sold. If we are ever to counteract our problems with the Buy Irish campaign then there must be something in it for the people who count, those nearer the front line, the people who actually meet the consumers. They are the people who are working on our behalf.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Might I remind the Seanad that there is only about a minute and a half before the Adjournment?

Mrs. Hussey

There is no way in which one can convey a message in a minute and a half unless with high-powered advertising on television, which is extremely relevant to this debate because we are talking about consumer spending. The debate is timely, because we are talking about consumer spending as we are coming up to Christmas, as was mentioned earlier on. We should remember that out of every £100 spent here on consumer goods £80 is spent by women, so we are talking about directing this campaign at the people who are actually there at the point of sale. That is something that should be tackled by the Irish Goods Council and by this House if we are really serious in the wording of this motion, which is to support the efforts of the Irish Goods Council to encourage people to buy Irish goods.

Debate adjourned.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.30 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 17 December 1980.

Seanad Éireann debate - Wednesday, 10 Dec 1980