It is proposed to take No. 1 and to break from 2.30 to 3.30.
Order of Business.
Is the Order of Business agreed?
A Chathaoirligh, last week you will recall that I unsuccessfully invoked Standing Order No. 29 with a view to having the recent White Paper on Northern Ireland discussed. You saw fit not to grant my application but at the same time you conceded the great importance of the matter. It is now in the form of a motion, No. 14 on the Order Paper, standing in the names of Senator Ross and myself. I think that you will agree that, in the overall national context, the matter could not be more important since it involves the setting up of an Electoral Assembly and the possibility of devolved Government in Northern Ireland.
While the issue is still topical, a Chathaoirligh, I suggest that it should be debated in this House. There could be no more suitable forum, no more appropriate time particularly as the Dáil is not sitting and will not be sitting until the week after next. Your ruling last week took into account the fact that the White Paper was not available. However, I suggest that since the full text has been published in one national newspaper and its substance has been given in a number of other papers and there have been many features on it, no Senator can possibly be uninformed about the matter. Therefore, I move that item No. 14 be added to the Order of Business.
Have I a seconder for that?
I second that.
Given that it is possible that the Committee Stage of the Bill to come before the House may not take a full day — it is hard to predict at present how long it will take — I would certainly support the proposal to add this item to the Order of Business and to seek to have perhaps a three hour debate which I think would be perfectly feasible within the context of the order of the day. I agree with Senator Murphy that this is an extremely important matter. It is something which is not getting the attention that it warrants because of another island much further away which at present is drawing all the attention of the British Government, Opposition and media. It is extremely important that in this House we should have an opportunity to examine the proposals in the White Paper, to express our views and to express our views generally on the situation in Northern Ireland. This would be an appropriate time to do it since this House is now meeting and, in particular, as I said because of the influence that the Falkland Islands dispute is having on the whole approach of the British media. Apart from the day that the White Paper was published I do not think there has been much attention or comment on it at all. I think it would be valuable to have it debated in this House.
I would like to support the plea for an early opportunity to discuss the White Paper.
Certainly my words would be much those of Senator Whitaker although I am not sure if they would have the same meaning. I would certainly welcome an early opportunity to debate the White Paper. Whether I would welcome an opportunity as early as this evening, I would have doubts about. I agree with what has been said, that this is a most important document which should be discussed thoroughly in this House. That is the problem: I am not so sure we could have a thorough discussion this evening. The contents of the White Paper were reported in extenso in one of the national newspapers and so was available, but I doubt if Senators have had an opportunity to study it in detail. They have been engaged in other activities in recent weeks. My preference would be for the motion to be taken on the first or second sitting day of the new Seanad. Some of us may exclude ourselves from the debate by taking that particular attitude. But I must frankly confess that while I have certain views on the White Paper I have not made the study of it I would like to make before debating it in a House of the Oireachtas. I would ask Senator Murphy if he would not agree that perhaps we would come unprepared to the debate and therefore lessen the effect of the debate by taking it today. On the other hand I approve thoroughly of it being discussed and I approve of the idea of motions being discussed.
I agree with Senator Dooge. Certainly I believe it is something which should be debated very soon in the Seanad but I think this afternoon would be inappropriate. The Committee Stage of the Bill we are discussing will probably take two or three hours. What would happen then is that we would be in a position of having to sit much later than 5 o'clock if we want to conclude the debate on this motion or else we would have to conclude it half-way through when, of course, that would be the end of it. I think we should balance the urgency of debating it against the question of whether it could be properly and adequately dealt with today. Certainly I agree that it would be better not to discuss it today but to take it as soon as may be for those of us who will be in the new Seanad.
Is the amendment being pressed?
Yes.
I am putting the question as proposed by Senator Murphy, seconded by Senator Ross: "That item No. 14 be added to the Order of Business."
The Seanad divided: Tá, 19; Níl, 4.
Tá
- Bolger, Deirdre.
- Burke, Ulick.
- Butler, Pierce.
- Byrne, Toddie.
- Carroll, John F.
- Dooge, James.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Harte, John.
- Kearney, Miriam.
- Lawlor, Patsy.
- McAuliffe, Timothy.
- Magner, Patrick.
- Murphy, John A.
- O'Connell, Maurice.
- O'Leary, Seán A.
- O'Mahony, Flor.
- Robinson, Mary.
- Ross, Shane P.N.
- Whitaker, Thomas Kenneth.
Níl
- Cranitch, Mícheál.
- Kiely, Dan.
- Ryan, Eoin.
- Ryan, William.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Murphy and J. Harte; Níl, Senators W. Ryan and Cranitch.
Question declared carried.
Order of Business, as amended, agreed to.