The Minister in his Second Stage speech mentioned the fact that recommendations of the National Economic and Social Council on tourism policy, published in December 1980, suggest that future policy should concentrate on stimulating the upgrading of accommodation outside the hotel sector. It is quite obvious that this has been done and we have seen a huge increase in the number of self-catering cottages and camping parks throughout the country. Nevertheless, it must be stated that this increase which was recommended has possibly grown a little too fast and we now have a situation where the demand for this type of accommodation is not living up to the greater numbers. We have seen companies which went into self-catering — very good development of the thatched-cottage type — now have very serious financial problems. We should now be making certain that rather than giving grants to developments such as this any moneys that are available in the short-term, will be used to upgrade the stock of tourist accommodation that we have, whether in the self-catering sector or in the hotel sector. This would seem to me to be the proper line to be taking at this moment. I would ask the Minister to have a look at this.
Tourist Traffic Bill, 1983: Committee and Final Stages.
I can assure the Senator that his sentiments are in keeping with the Government's outlook. Pending a complete assessment, which will be ready shortly, of the anticipated tourist requirements in the next five years, no moneys will be involved in any new development. The main concentration of any moneys that are available will be on upgrading the existing structures so as to make the industry more competitive and more tourist-worthy.
I would agree that the money should be spent on renovation and improvement of hotel accommodation. The existing facilities have proved quite adequate in terms of accommodation and there has been a tremendous emphasis on hygiene measures and on fire safety precautions in hotels. At this stage we might pay a tribute to the fire officers and to the health boards who have co-operated in great detail in this respect especially in the last number of years. They have updated the regulations and are ensuring that they are complied with.
I mentioned on Second Stage the problem regarding hotels. Hotel accommodation is not being utilised to the full by tourists. This is because of the crippling VAT impositions. While a gesture was made in the last budget to alleviate the problem, in many ways this proved counter-productive. I refer to the holding of the 18 per cent VAT rate in respect of bed accommodation while at all other levels in the industry the VAT rate is 23 per cent. The amount of work entailed in book-keeping and the fall-off in bookings has rendered this concession almost useless.
I would ask the Minister once again to try to impress on the Minister for Finance the importance of the hotel industry, what it means to this country and how effective it is with regard to job creation. The spin-off industries from the hotel industry from tourism are enormous. It is a self-made provider of jobs. Each tourist who comes into this country tends to provide jobs for our people. That is what it is all about, and I am sure that is what the Minister has in mind in introducing this Bill, which we all welcome very much. I welcome the Minister's approach and the whole concept and idea of tourism. I specifically welcome his approach to the development of facilities of non-accommodation areas and particularly his interest in the fishing industry.
We should re-emphasise the importance of the fishing industry and hope that areas that have been neglected in terms of publicity, especially areas in the midlands, will attract the attention of the tourist board. I mention areas like north Meath where there are historic areas which are not even listed on CIE tour guides. Lough Sheelin which is perhaps one of the best trout-fishing lakes in Europe deteriorated slightly in the last ten years but I am glad to say that the measures taken to deal with the problem have been successful. This year was very good from the point of view of fishing in the lake. There are many places in north Meath which could be given more attention and be made even more attractive than they are. We need publicity. We need the accommodation and we need incentive.
I urge the Minister to carry forward his views on matters I mentioned in this House previously with regard to the other aspects of the tourist industry such as the propagation of our culture and our heritage, our games, our music and our dancing and to give as much support as is possible to organisations such as Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann who are promoting our culture and are a tremendous attraction to the tourist industry not alone in this country but by way of sending out groups abroad to let others know what Ireland is like, to let them know that they are not coming into an environment which is different from their own. I appreciate the Minister's interest in this regard. I wish him well and hope he will have many years in office in which to bring his ideas to fruition.
I should like to support the points made by Senator Lynch. Section 2 is one of the most important sections of the Bill in that it increases the grant assistance which can be made available to the board for tourist amenities other than accommodation. I would like to know what precisely the Minister has in mind. Coming from a constituency where tourism is extremely important I have certain ideas. Last year Ireland West Tourism in the Mayo-Galway region succeeded in bringing in revenue of the order of £80 million. That represented a substantial increase and they deserve to be congratulated on it. There are areas where grant assistance available under this section could be constructively spent. We have facilities and amenities to attract tourists, for example, fishing and shooting.
In Bord Fáilte's annual report there is mention of the fact that in the recent season one of their problems was late bookings. They stressed the fact that the tourism season stretched mainly over the summer months. I should like to see some grant assistance being made available to ensure that tourism is developed during the winter months. The Department and Bord Fáilte could work much closer with the Department of Fisheries and Forestry in developing the fishing and shooting aspects of tourism. I should like to see local game clubs and sporting organisations having the opportunity of working in closer liaison with the Department and with Bord Fáilte. There is a certain amount of suspicion between the two bodies at the moment.
There are many shooting rights which have not been let. If the money available under the section is used to encourage local game clubs, it could have the effect of attracting tourists in the winter season when hotels are lying idle and when employment in the tourism industry is at a very low ebb.
We have other facilities which we are in danger of losing. I refer to the heritage houses. There is the controversy regarding the Carton Estate at the moment. If money were made available under this section it could be used very beneficially to encourage tourists to come here. There has been much talk within tourism circles of developing a folk park. Perhaps Carton Estate could be used as a location for musical or sporting purposes. Its proximity to the capital would make it very suitable for tourism development. in my own constituency we have Westport House. Recently negotiations took place between a former Minister of State at the Department of Education and the owner of Westport House regarding grant assistance — this would be within the terms of this section — to allow the owner to make available the vast collection of documents, documents that are lying there in trunks and which go back to the Siege of Limerick and which are of tremendous historical importance. If made available to the public they would have the effect of attracting the more serious type of tourists who would come to study and examine them. This would have the effect also of making Westport an even more attractive tourist centre than it is although it is one of the most attractive tourist centres in the country.
Money under this section could be used to investigate the changing of some of our laws which would have the effect of facilitating tourism. I refer in particular to the controversy which has raged in recent years regarding the inadequate licensing facilities available to restaurants. Bord Fáilte and the Department could use moneys available under the section to commission a report to examine this situation. The existing situation is totally unsatisfactory. Both local and foreign tourists visiting small restaurants are unable to obtain the service they require. They can only have a glass of wine. Many of our home-made beverages are not available to them. That is a ridiculous situation but it is one that could be dealt with.
One other facility that we should make money available to develop is our National Museum. I had the opportunity in recent weeks of visiting an exhibition in Berlin. This was an exhibition of treasures from our National Museum and I was extremely impressed to see displayed there in a very real way some of our treasures. One cannot observe those treasures in our National Museum exhibited in such a satisfactory way. We have treasures which should be publicised. The exhibiting of these treasures abroad is having a tremendous effect on tourism in that it is letting people abroad see what we have to offer. It certainly encourages them to come to this country but when they come into the country we should be able to offer these treasures to them in a more sensible way.
As a follow through to what the Minister said in his opening remarks, there is a major review taking place as to how best to support the industry. At present there are non-grant concessions being made through the ICC for people in the hotel and tourism business. As well as giving the concessions through the ICC, it would be beneficial to the business of tourism that some of this money should be got through the commercial banks. This would help them in their day-to-day dealing with banks. One of the problems that people have is that if the banks feel you are borrowing outside their own sector they might not be as willing to help you when you most need the help. Every business today experiences cash-flow problems. In the tourism trade generally 23 per cent goes off the top straightaway to the VAT people and there is also the very high PRSI contribution that the employer has to make of 11.6 per cent, which means that before they start to make any profit these taxes must be paid. It is very difficult to see how any business can survive such outlays before paying staff and paying for the very necessary upkeep of their premises and equally to put a few pounds in their own pocket. It seems to be considered a sin if any businessman has profit left over at the end of the year. If this trend continues there will be nobody in business. Day by day we see people going out of business because of the very high contributions they have to make before they can have a legitimate profit for themselves.
The second point on section 2 (2) which raises the limit on non-accommodation grant expenditure from £10 million to £14 million is very important. In the Minister's Second Stage speech he said that he was not totally satisfied that this was being channelled into directions which were profitable to the State or which were helping the tourism industry. It is as long ago as 1975 that a major review or policy plan was undertaken by the regional tourism boards or by Bord Fáilte. It is necessary to have major reviews on a much more regular basis than that in an industry which is changing rapidly. The non-accommodation section is one that should be extended, because we have all seen the benefits that can be got from that section. The product we are selling in Ireland is not the product that is being sold in Spain or in Miami. People do not come here to lie on beaches. We have the best beaches in the world but unfortunately, except for this summer, one cannot say that the beaches are our most attractive feature. We have wonderful countryside and we equally have wonderful buildings. Millions of people flock to places like Egypt to see the tombs and the various artifacts that they have there but there are very few Irish people who have been to Tara, which is more ancient and more noble than a lot of what can be seen abroad.
In the non-accommodation section there is an increase from £10 million to £14 million. This could be extended because it is from there that we are likely to get the most benefit in the future. In Kilkenny major changes in tourism were brought about by the splendid work that was done on Dunmore Cave, on Roth House and on Kilkenny Castle. There is no doubt that it has changed the whole trend of tourism in the area. What would have been considered to be a derelict building has been renovated lovingly by craftsmen from the Office of Public Works.
I wish to compliment the Minister of State, the Minister, the Director General of Bord Fáilte and particularly the Government for providing a much needed extra financial boost to the tourist industry. In this difficult financial situation it must be encouraging for all those who do so much wonderful work in the tourist industry to find that the Government have included the industry in their priorities and are providing this healthy capital injection to the industry.
I attended a very interesting seminar last week in Killorglin. I know that the Minister of State is fully aware of the beauty of Kerry. The seminar dealt with such features as the Kerry way, the Wicklow way and with walking holidays in particular. What impressed me was the fact that there appeared to be a willingness to get co-operation, not just from the local authorities, the vocational education committees and the tourist boards but from youth employment people and so many State agencies that can very well have an input into the development of amenities for people. I am not one for walking holidays but I was inveigled to go on the Kerry way. It was supposed to be two miles but I thought it was more like 12 miles. However, it was a beautiful walk. There are many people who can avail of and who enjoy holidays like that, especially younger people. In many areas of the country there are outdoor pursuits centres which are being utilised by youth groups, scout groups, tourists and students, not only from our country but from many countries. I hope that the Minister and Bord Fáilte, with the co-operation of the Forestry and Wildlife section, will open up many of the beautiful facilities and areas so that people can really see, not only at a distance, the 40 shades of green that Johnny Cash sings about but also the great wealth and variety of plants and trees and, indeed, of wild animals and of birds in the country.
I would like to suggest to the Minister that in the development of walking routes and paths through the State forests we should bear in mind the possibility of using some of the funds that are made available to the Youth Employment Agency whether for the environmental schemes or for the ordinary educational schemes. This would be for many communities and I would hope that individual communities who want to see their particular areas develop and who would welcome the opportunity to attract people to their areas would look very closely at what is available by way of grants under the youth employment schemes. Some of these schemes pose a difficulty for small communities because it is difficult for them to raise the capital required to pay for the material, but if we are thinking of developing walking routes for tourists, the capital cost would be very slight. That is an area from which great benefit would accrue and it would be an interesting task for many people who would like to avail of the work experience programme. It is important that young people should have a greater appreciation of the countryside instead of just walking through it without really seeing the great variety that is there.
Many people look on the present time as being a time of a great rip-off, but if people who want to develop and who have development plans were given interest-free loans so that the grant would take the form of the entire interest on loans for capital development, this could take a lot of pressure of people and perhaps the amount of money at the disposal of the Minister might go that little bit further. It is quite noticeable that so much of the development grants made available are in the traditional or the best-known areas or the areas that we accept as tourist areas, whereas there are a number of midland counties where one could count the amount of grant aid to the tourist industry on the fingers of one hand because it is said that we do not have a tourist industry there even though tourists pass through coming and going from one recognised or traditional beauty spot to another. This is where the regional boards should be given somewhat greater autonomy and perhaps be able to provide accommodation in all of the country towns across the Republic where there is a demand for that kind of development. I should like to compliment the Minister on the Bill.
A former Lord Mayor of Cork, Deputy Coveney, while on a sales promotion campaign in America, said that Ireland has probably the furthest flung empire in terms of people throughout the world and that to a large extent it is untapped. He mentioned specifically those Irish Americans who have succeeded in business to an enormous extent and have enormous wealth and funds and so forth and who have this love for the mother country and would like to do something for it but would like to be recognised for such efforts. Deputy Coveney made the point that because we do not confer honours upon people we could in fact appoint international directors of Bord Fáilte. I have said to the Minister on another occasion that this is an idea that ought to be followed up, that we could have international directors of Bord Fáilte in Australia, America or in any country where there is a segment of the population which is of Irish descent. This accolade given by the State to people in powerful positions of influence in these countries would be a very worthwhile exercise. I would ask the Minister of State to look at it again. It is probably unique that a Government should decide to put into this position a Minister who knows a great deal about the tourist industry. Usually it is the opposite.
It might be no harm to mention on this Bill the efforts which have been made down through the years by the Tidy Towns Committees and Bord Fáilte with their Tidy Towns awards Great efforts have been made to improve the general appearance of our cities, towns, villages and countryside. Unfortunately in many areas when the competition stage is over people tend to revert to their original routine and the country in general deteriorates.
Meath County Council are using the slogan "Keep Meath Tidy" and are doing everything in their power to prevent litter and indiscriminate dumping. Because of lack of funds the measures which can be taken at local authority level are very limited. Fines have been increased but the detection of the offending parties is very difficult. The public should be made more aware of their responsibilities to their country. We have the most beautiful country and yet we treat it otherwise in many ways, especially in regard to indiscriminate dumping. Many of our beauty spots are destroyed by such dumping. It would be appreciated if the Minister could help the local authorities to improve this area.
We, in Meath, have a very short coastline, about six miles stretching from Bettystown to Gormanston. There are problems regarding coast erosion. The hands of the county council are tied because of lack of finance. There are many areas which need to be protected. It would be helpful if the Minister would note my remarks, especially with regard to indiscriminate dumping, and try and encourage and, if possible, fund some type of incentive scheme to prevent this in conjunction with the local authorities.
I express my appreciation to all the Senators who have spoken. It clearly demonstrates their interest in the further expansion and development of Irish tourism.
Senator Lynch made one point with which I am very concerned. There are a number of areas that are excluded from the promotional list of Bord Fáilte. It is Bord Fáilte's responsibility to sell all Ireland and not any particular part. If there are any areas Senator Lynch feels merit inclusion in the development of tourism, certainly Bord Fáilte would be very quick to investigate and see that any injustices or wrongs will be corrected. I would ask for Senator Lynch's co-operation in that field.
Senator Durcan mentioned the development of fishing and shooting. These are vital segments of our total tourist development. It has been and will continue to be a major area of promotion.
We are dealing with sections 2 and 3 because we are combining accommodation, expenditure and capital development expenditure. For the information of the Senators I would like to give the capital expenditure from 1979 to 1982. In cruising development, which is a major development in the Shannon area and elsewhere, Bord Fáilte invested £1,042,000 from 1979 to 1982. That is a growing development. In the waterway development under the Office of Public Works and other developments in this field over the same period, up to £86,000 has been expended. The upgrading of regional tourist offices is a major feature in order to make for better facilities and over the same period expenditure amounted to £934,000. Expenditure on recreational facilities, concentrating on swimming pools, tennis courts, rock-climbing, hang-gliding etc., over the same period amounted to £844,000. Expenditure on national and forest parks amounted to £445,000 over the period.
Ireland has considerable angling resources and in this area there has been an expenditure of £534,000 mainly to improve public access to the fishing areas and the provision of angling facilities. Expenditure on sailing and water sports amounted to £300,000. Expenditure on historical and cultural joint projects undertaken with agencies, the Office of Public Works and local authorities amounted to £229,000.
The question of the importance of great houses and gardens has been mentioned. They have a considerable attraction for tourists and expenditure in this field amounted to £227,000. Expenditure on environmental and community projects over the same period in association with local authorities amounted to £229,000. The provision for plaques and signs for the direction and information of tourists amounted to £115,000. Entertainment, capital projects, Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann, Siamsa etc. amounted to £125,000. Horsedrawn caravan development amounted to £111,000.
This demonstrates that Bord Fáilte have shown a very keen interest and have backed up that interest with reasonably considerable expenditure. I agree that much more remains to be done in order to exploit to the fullest the potential in this area.
Senator Lanigan mentioned the review of the regional tourism organisations. This is a matter of great importance. In the near future it would be desirable to look and see if they have fulfilled the purpose for which they were originally set up and whether the eight regional bodies could be adjusted or re-structured in any way to improve further the development of tourism. This is under consideration at the moment. I can assure all the Senators that over a period of time searching investigations will be carried out to ensure that the regional tourism organisations are structured to achieve the expansion in tourism which we all desire.
Senator Magner mentioned overseas markets. Last week I had the opportunity of attending a major convention in Chicago which is the annual hosting of tourism development agencies in a variety of countries. I was glad to see that the existing structures and officers of Bord Fáilte are working very effectively, but it is worrying that of the forty million in the American tourist industry with Irish connections we are attracting less than 300,000 per annum. That is not a reasonable figure for tourism development. The most worrying feature is that four-and-a-half million travelled to Europe in 1982 and approximately two million to Britain. Not only must we investigate the possibility of substantially increasing American tourists directly to Ireland but we must also investigate encouraging the British and American tourists who come to Ireland for part of their holidays. The American market, properly handled, has colossal potential for a massive growth in Irish tourism.
We must properly promote our tourist industry, we must provide accessible facilities and we must ensure that our tourist organisation will act responsibly to ensure through standards, through courtesy, through hospitality and through the development of our amenities that our tourists will leave us feeling that they have got value for money. If we fail in that, no matter what promotions are done in America or elsewhere we will not succeed. We are in a worldwide competitive market. It is our job to make our facilities, our standards and our prices attractive enough to encourage tourists to visit Ireland regardless of competition elsewhere. We have a country to develop and we have a heritage that is the richest in the world which is a major tourism attraction. A satisfied tourist leaving this country is the best ambassador we could have.
The matter of loans has been mentioned. Senator Lanigan asked why private banks have not been utilised. The ICC have been providing money at very acceptable rates. Loans at reasonable rates for tourist development is very essential for the development of the industry. Investigations were carried out with the private banks. There have been no major complaints from the private banks that the ICC are unreasonably interfering. Bord Fáilte and the Department of Trade, Commerce and Tourism are very appreciative of the co-operation they have got from ICC in their involvement in the development of tourism.
The question of tidy towns is of vital importance. Last Sunday I was present in Terryglass on the shores of Lough Derg where they were celebrating the winning of the award. They are a small, united community who worked on a voluntary basis. We will not legislate completely towards the elimination of litter unless we get the co-operation of the local people. We had 900 entrants in the tidy towns competition. It should be substantially more, especially from the larger urban areas who are so deeply involved in tourism. Bord Fáilte will continue to give every encouragement to the communities who involve themselves voluntarily in upgrading the image of their areas, not only to their own advantage but to the national advantage. Tourists appreciate a tidy, well kept, litter-free centre. All communities should involve themselves not alone for the purpose of winning prizes — it is an attraction — but by taking pride in their environment and ensuring that it is not unnecessarily destroyed by carelessness.
Serious discussions have taken place over the last 12 to 18 months regarding the basis on which a properly constituted licensing system can be introduced. While it is the responsibility of the Minister for Justice, my Department are in agreement with a properly structured licensing system for restaurants who can demonstrate that they have a reputable tradition in the provision of meals of a high standard. We would be opposed to the loosening of legislation to provide for the issuing of licences to premises whose main function would be the sale of drink rather than food. The Minister for Justice will have the full agreement of the House when he decides in the interest of tourism on the licensing of well-established restaurants whose primary function is the provision of high-grade meals for tourists. There are problems in finalising it but I hope that in the not-too-distant future the Minister for Justice, having met the Irish Restaurant Owners Association and the Irish Vintners Association, will find a basis for the introduction of satisfactory legislation.
Senator Magner raised the question of appointing directors of Bord Fáilte internationally. This will be examined. That covers the main points raised by the Senators. I thank them for their immense interest, demonstrating their commitment to the development of this industry.
The Minister mentioned the upgrading of Board Fáilte's information offices. I ask him to have a further look at this matter. Due to lack of finance in the regions, these offices close at 5 p.m. or 6 p.m. With the type of mobile tourists we have at present, people tend to arrive in a town when the tourist information office is closed and we see people rambling around the area of the tourist information office. Unless there is some local person around who can tell them where to go and what type of accommodation might be available, it can be extremely difficult for them.
Another point he made was that he was at the ITME Conference in Chicago. I have heard comments from certain sectors that we are not going to get the type of tourist that we have been looking for in the past. Bord Fáilte spent enormous amounts of money bringing travel agents here from Austria, Germany, Sweden and other places and they put them into the major grade A type hotels where they are being charged at least a third more for their food and discretionary purchases. They are being overcharged in the bars and in the restaurants. This is the type of price structure they feel exists throughout the country. If they were brought to the normal type of Irish hotel, the normal type of bed and breakfast accommodation or indeed where the Irish people themselves go, they might have a better idea and we might get a better feed back from the amounts of money that are being spent by bringing in these people.
I want to make one point on the tidy towns. I was disgusted to see on yesterday's paper the picture of the committee of the town which won the Tidy Towns competition standing beside the signpost which was erected outside this particular town. Similar signposts are erected outside every town which has won the Tidy Towns competition. It is a metal structure which is about six feet by six feet. To put that outside a town which has won a Tidy Towns competition seems ludicrous. It is taking away from the natural attributes of the place which has won the award. Bord Fáilte should have a look at the design of that particular sign before they put up any more of them.
I refer to a point made by the Minister in regard to the issuing of restaurant licences. I hope that in all these discussions both the Minister and the Minister for Justice will bear in mind the part the ordinary publican has played in the development of our tourist industry through the years. This is a sector that is badly hit at the moment. The Minister mentioned that as well as the restaurant owners association, he would also have talks with licensed vintners association so that their points of view could be put. We cannot issue ad hoc licences here and there to every Tom, Dick and Harry who is out for a quick kill. I agree with that, but I would reiterate the part the publican has played down through the years. People like to go into the ordinary pub and have a drink. We still have a few pubs where we have Irish music and the odd step is danced. It is a tourist attraction and it is something that we must preserve.
Regarding the point made about the staffing of the regional tourist offices, Senators will agree that the limitations on the finances of Bord Fáilte, which mainly have to be spent on promotion both overseas and at home, leave a certain shortcoming there. People who register with the different regions pay a flat rate fee to Bord Fáilte and they pay on a voluntary basis if they so desire to the regional tourism board. The money which can be used for additional staffing and additional information offices comes from the resources of the region itself. This is an area which will have to be looked at. Bord Fáilte's limited financial resources are confined to selling Ireland as a whole rather than going down into the nitty gritty. Local regional boards have the capacity and the right to set up certain financial structures that could possibly enable them to provide for better staffing.
I can assure Senator Lynch that the sentiments he expressed are fully under consideration by the Minister for Justice, who has the final responsibility on that, and nothing will be done other than what is considered to be in the best interests of all concerned.
There is one sector here that needs looking at, and I do not think that the fundamental problem will be solved by an increase in penalties. I refer here to the holiday caravan parks. There is no doubt that the existing legislation regarding standards and the issuing of licences is more honoured in the breach than in the observance.
I carried out a survey in one county where there were approximately 26 caravan parks and found that 11 of them were licensed by the local authority and 12 were licensed by Bord Fáilte. The 11 that were licensed by the local authority were not licensed by Bord Fáilte, and it is ridiculous that there should not be legislation giving one authority, and I suggest that it should be the local authority, the power to license these places. Caravan parks and halting places for campers are going to become more and more important in tourism. No matter what country one goes to, the one thing one sees in tourism is the enormous growth in the number of people with small caravans and huge growth in the number of young people who are travelling, using either hostels or camping sites.
In Ireland in the past there was a feeling that these people should not be made welcome. If we do not make these people welcome when they are young, when they have their packs on their backs, we might lose a lot of future tourism potential. When they are here they are at least spending on their food and possibly in the local pub. They might not spend a lot of money per person but generally speaking these people get the urge to travel at that age and when they are older and have enough money to spend on holidays abroad we may miss out on them altogether if they have not travelled through Ireland in their youth.
I know there are difficulties in certain areas regarding caravan parks as to whether they are going to be hard stands for itinerants or whether the caravan parks set up for tourists would tend to deteriorate. Even though the increase in penalties suggested in section 3 will ensure that increased penalties will be imposed on people who break the regulations, unless the regulations are brought together not much good will be done.
I am glad that Senator Lanigan raised this matter again because there is a growing demand for properly structured caravan and camping grounds. I am conscious of the problem that we have some grounds which are registered for sanitary standards with the local authority but are not registered with regard to the overall standards with Bord Fáilte. We have engaged in discussions with the Department of the Environment in an effort to eliminate this and bring the whole lot under one structure. This is a segment that has to be encouraged because it is a growing new phenomenon in the tourist industry. There is a growing volume of people looking for reasonable facilities and it is up to us to provide the best standard of facilities for them.
I welcome section 3 in so far as it increases penalties. However, I should like to ask the Minister if it is absolutely necessary that the penalties be fixed by statute? Is it not possible that the penalties could be fixed by statutory instrument? Many of these penalties were fixed by legislation which was enacted a considerable time ago and inflation has taken its toll in regard to the relevance of these penalties. It is interesting that section 5 allows the imposition of fees which will be imposed by the board for various purposes to be fixed by statutory instrument or ministerial order. I wonder if it is possible to do the same as far as fines are concerned. A fine is a penalty and I am a little concerned that, leaving aside the question of prosecuting an offender, Bord Fáilte are, on occasion, adopting other approaches for penalising a tour operator who breaches the Tourism Acts. I refer very bluntly to a case about which I made representations to the board. It concerns the Westport House complex where many types of tourism activities are carried on under the same umbrella, from the opening of Westport House as a historic house to horse-drawn caravans, apartments and various tourism activities. This year they were in breach of one rule whereby their advertising literature contained details of holiday apartments and one of these apartments did not comply with Bord Fáilte regulations. As a result, Bord Fáilte refused to carry any of their literature dealing with any of their activities in any Bord Fáilte office. This tour operator is providing a tremendous incentive to tourism in the west Mayo area. It came as a very severe blow to those interested in the development of tourism in the area that all his literature should be withdrawn for the entire season. I welcome the power given to Bord Fáilte under this section to prosecute and the increased penalties provided for. However, I do not welcome the taking of arbitrary decisions by Bord Fáilte to penalise somebody independently of the courts.
I am sure the Senator will agree that fines have not been adjusted since 1939. The discretion will still be in the hands of the courts. We are only endeavouring to set this maximum in order to keep the offences within District Courts rather than outside them. These are absolute maximum fines and the justice concerned in any case will have the power to impose a fine.
In relation to the provision that the board may, alone or with other persons, in or outside the State, provide consultancy services in relation to tourism am I to take it that if a private group wish to give a course in how tourism should be run or if they wish to provide tourism services they are not allowed to do so? The inference seems to be that only the board may give somebody power to provide consultancy, advisory and training services.
The problem here is that the board have involved themselves in consultancy advice on a paid profit basis for forces outside the State. The Attorney General has advised the inclusion of this provision in order to legalise this procedure. However, it does not in any way infringe on private consultants. It is purely to cover the existing situation in which the board have involved themselves over a period of years in providing consultancy services for which they are paid.
There is one thing that disturbs me. Section 3, which deals with penalties, says there should be a continuing penalty for every day upon which the offence continues. I do not see that mentioned in section 8 and there should be a continuing fine for every day upon which the offence continues. It is something that the Minister should consider even at this stage unless the matter is covered by some other legislation. I am very anxious to be assured that where somebody displays certain information there should be more than a mere penalty because it is vital to tourism that the correct information be displayed. It seems ridiculous that people would have to wait for a court to fine them while the information was being displayed for a considerable time. It is one section where a continuing offence should be deemed and a fine should be imposed for every day upon which it occurs.
This aspect was considered. However, it was not considered of sufficient magnitude to warrant a continuing fine. A new charge can be preferred if the offence is not put right.
May I ask the Minister for an explanation of section 9? Normally we welcome schemes relating to pensions and death gratuities for staff and board members. However, pensions are a subject of public concern at present, especially the payment of pensions to people in this House, although I suppose I should not mention it. As public money is involved I should like the Minister to clarify what exactly section 9 is going to do for members, staff, their spouses and children.
In connection with this section, it is reasonable to assume that there would be some confusion here because it is generally established that Bord Fáilte is a part-time board. The necessity for this section arises from the 1952 Act which indicated a possibility of the appointment of some members as a full-time board. As of now, no members of Bord Fáilte as at present constituted come within the qualifications that would be required for the disbursement of public funds by way of gratuities, widows' allowances, children's allowances, etc. It is only a technical provision in case at some time in the future fulltime board members will be appointed to Bord Fáilte. This would require specific approval. The section is at present noneffective and non-implementable. It was included on the advice of the legal profession in order to co-ordinate this legislation with that of 1952. There are no members of the board eligible for these gratuities at present. It would only arise if the projections of the 1952 Act were implemented by the appointment of full-time members to the board. This section also deals with staff who are now being brought into line retrospectively in relation to their overall entitlements in national agreements for full-time permanent staff in a semi-State body.
I am quite happy about the staff end of it but I was concerned about board members because I was aware that board membership tends to change. I was not quite sure what period of membership of the board would qualify a person for a pension and it could be tying up valuable funds that Bord Fáilte will require for this section but I welcome it on behalf of the staff who become permanent and would be giving their duty full-time to the board. I was concerned because they were not differentiated in the section.
I am a little worried about this section, particularly in connection with 9(1). Why bring in this section now? It is not envisaged that full-time members of the staff, or full-time board members, will be appointed even though it does state that this can happen. It worries me that 9(1) is brought in by civil servants to protect themselves. I see absolutely no reason for it. It always worries me when somebody says, "We put this in just in case at some future date the protection would be needed if and when full-time members of the board were appointed". Section 9(1) is superfluous and dangerous.
I understand Senator Lanigan's position. This is the first time legislative provision has been made in respect of the staff for gratuities and pensions. They have been dealt with retrospectively. It is now giving effect to the retrospective position regarding the proper payments due to these people. The draftsmen thought in doing that on this occasion they also should take into account the basis of the 1952 legislation in relation to the possibility of having full-time board members at some time and that this was the occasion to do it. It does not apply at present as there are no full-time members and there are no proposals to do that. If and when a pension scheme does come, it would have to go before both Houses of the Oireachtas. I can understand Senator Lanigan's position when he says it is an oddity at the moment and his observations will be borne in mind.
Again I feel because this section is now in the Bill pressure will come from the professionals within Bord Fáilte to ensure that they have full-time board members. It is one of the facts of life that the professionals do not like part-time board members who have an interest in tourism and have an expertise in certain areas. They are looked down on in certain areas by the professionals. I suggest that because this is now in the Bill, it will give them a further impetus to try to force the situation whereby, because the Bill states it, we will have, following that, full-time board members.
We have not differentiated in respect of board members whether we are talking about temporary or permanent board members. When does a board member become permanent? Is it after three years? It needs to be clarified as it is somewhat unclear as it is. I do not agree that parliamentary draftsmen always do the right thing. They have the right reason for doing it but the final wording may, as Senator Lanigan said, leave room for interpretation by other people in a way that would be beneficial to themselves. I am concerned about this. Members of the board, as the Minister confirmed, change from time to time. There is nothing wrong with that if they make an input. But at what stage will somebody decide that they should become permanent? Will the board itself decide? Can they decide or can we stop them? If this is written into the Bill who can stop them?
Within the legislation providing for Bord Fáilte is comprised a board of part-time members with a limitation of three years' service. If the aspirations of the 1952 legislation were to be implemented they would require the approval of both Houses. It was merely included as a technical introduction at this stage to regularise properly the superannuation of staff. That is the position and there need be no fears. The existing legislation deals with a part-time tourist board. They are not covered in the proposals for remuneration, pension or superannuation rights within this context.
I am doubtful about the necessity for this section at all. I am a little worried about the fact that somebody who has to make an arrangement with his creditors should be disqualified from being a member of the board of Bord Fáilte bearing in mind that if we are to introduce legislation of this kind the section does not go further and prohibit other people from maintaining their places on the board. It is unfortunate that we penalise somebody who may be guilty of a commercial offence which may be entirely outside his control yet somebody who may be guilty of an offence under the Litter Act or Fisheries Act — perhaps somebody who was convicted of poisoning an entire river and damaging an entire area — may still be eligible to sit on the board of Bord Fáilte. A person convicted of drunken driving two or three times is still eligible to sit on the board of Bord Fáilte. A hotelier who was convicted repeatedly under the Tourist Acts may continue to sit on the board of Bord Fáilte. Yet somebody who unwittingly commits a commercial offence is not allowed to sit on the board of Bord Fáilte. That is extremely unfortunate and I am unhappy about this section. If one is to disqualify at all, the disqualifications would be endless. The question of qualification is something which falls within the discretion of individual and successive Ministers. Successive Ministers in the exercise of their powers in appointing people to the board have shown excellent discretion. Over the years there have been excellent members on the board. This is what I would describe as bridesmaid legislation. It is unnecessary and I do not like to see it going on the Statute Book. More thought should be given to it.
There is another technical point. We say that a person who is sentenced by a court of competent jurisdiction to suffer imprisonment shall be disqualified. What happens if somebody is convicted of a driving offence and he refuses to pay the fine? If he does not pay the fine he must suffer imprisonment. Does that mean that such a person is disqualified from being on the board? It is not what the section says, it is what it does not say. This is an unnecessary and unfortunate section.
I agree with Senator Durcan's remarks. A person could be sent to prison for many things. As has happened, a person may not agree with a television programme that has been shown on a particular channel and he could be sent to prison. One thing I am worried about is making an arrangement with his creditors. Anybody in business has to make some type of arrangement with his creditors. As Senator Durcan said, the list would be endless.
There has been a misunderstanding. That phrase is contained in section 8 of the original Act. The only thing this legislation proposes is to widen the total section to provide for the appointment of a person resident outside the State. All the other aspects mentioned are already law. The only thing this proposes to do is to delete "or ceases to be ordinarily resident in Ireland" from that section and allow the Government, if they so desire, if the person living outside the country, be he Irish or otherwise, has expertise that would be beneficial to tourism, to nominate that person to Bord Fáilte.
I should like to compliment the Minister on the job that he is doing for tourism since he took office. Equally, even though much has been said here which might seem to be critical of the workings of Bord Fáilte, in general there is no question or doubt that Mr. McNulty and his team and the regional managers in general have done an excellent job in selling this country. However, at this stage of the year when we are getting into third degree considerations I should like to impress upon the Minister for Finance the grave need that there is for a reduction to a realistic level of the VAT rates that apply to hotels and the tourism industries.
If a realistic rate of 10 per cent were to be placed on the industry as a whole the State would not lose in terms of revenue because it would increase the discretionary amount that tourists would have to spend on items which already bear a very high tax content, and the more of them that would be used, the more revenue would accrue to the Government. Petrol gives a very high tax yield to the Government. If people had more to spend they would travel more and the State would benefit. Again, if we take tax off alcoholic beers, the discretionary amount of money people on holiday would have would be used in spending it on such drink.
The VAT threshold is much too high. If the tourism industry is to survive, the high level of VAT will have to be brought down to a realistic level or everything that we have been talking about here today cannot be fulfilled.
I concur with what Senator Lanigan said. I thank the Minister and wish him well, as I did earlier. I fully agree with Senator Lanigan when he says that Bord Fáilte have done a tremendous job down through the years. This Bill will enable them to carry out their work with an injection of much needed cash and capital which will be wisely used. However, I again stress to the Minister in conjunction with Senator Lanigan's remarks, that he should do something to relieve the restrictions that we have placed on the tourist industry in regard to the imposition of high taxes. We have gone a long way towards killing the great potential that is still there. I agree with the Minister when he stated that there is not one part of this country that is not a tourist attraction. It is up to us to promote it. At the same time, the Government should give back the incentive to people to work towards attaining that goal and give back the incentive to the tourists to come here.
I should like to compliment the Minister. I believe this is one industry that is really about people and I hope that the management of hotels and catering establishments will always bear that in mind. Four of us drove from the south a few weeks ago and we ordered three meals. I was driving and I did not want anything. No one would be served unless I had a full meal also. That is absolutely stupid. The only option we had was to go from this motorway inn in Limerick back into town to look for some other place. Asinine regulations like that would surely put tourists off. Being Irish and knocking around myself I would understand the way people employ these house rules. But surely tourism should cater for each individual's needs. That is where we would expect the Irish charm and what we would have to sell. Hotel managements have a big responsibility to put a personal input into this industry to be able to earn the very much needed foreign currencies to keep the balances right. I have every confidence in the Minister to continue with the good job he is doing.
I should like to join with my colleagues. It is the most appropriate time, when a Bill has passed through the House, to congratulate the Minister for the work he is doing for tourism. He is a colleague of mine and I know he has complete and total dedication to it. I want to thank him for the way he handled the Bill today and in the session before the adjournment for the summer recess when he explained fully each section to the Members of the House. I want to thank him personally for the way he handled all the questions from the Senators and, indeed, for his dedication to the brief that he holds. He was a Member of this House for a long time and it is a pleasure to see him back in his capacity as a Minister obviously in an area which he loves.
I wish to thank the Members for their co-operation in expediting the passage of this legislation. I assure Senator Ferris and the Members concerned that criticism is welcome where it can lead to improvement. Every aspect and sentiment expressed here will have our fullest consideration with a view to making our contribution and to seeing that defects are removed as quickly as possible for the greater advancement and development of this great industry.