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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Nov 1983

Vol. 102 No. 4

Bord na Gaeilge Action Plan: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Seanad Éireann takes note of the Action Plan for Irish 1983-1986, published by Bord na Gaeilge, and calls for the setting up of an all-party Oireachtas Committee to consider that Plan, to review the present condition of the language both in the Gaeltacht and outside it, and to make recommendations to the Government on an Irish language policy for the future.
—(Senator O'Mahony).

Bhí mé ag caint an lá deireannach faoi thábhacht na Gaeilge le féin-mheas a chothú sa tír i measc muintir na tíre. Ba mhaith liom sula dté mé ar aghaidh, comhgháirdeas a dhéanamh le Bord na Gaeilge as ucht an phlean ghníomhaíochta seo atá curtha romhainn. Is plean réadúil agus praicticiúil é, plean gur féidir é a mheasúnú agus leoga tá sé curtha romhainn ag an mbord gur cóir é a mheasúnú. Tá na costais aimsithe go cruinn agus tá spriocanna leagtha amach. Is plean é gur féidir é a ghníomhú agus ní plean, mar adéarfá, ar bharr na gaoithe é.

Ba mhaith liom focal a rá faoi chostas. Tá géarchéim airgid sa tír ins an am atá i láthair, deirtear linn, agus tá eagla orm ó thaobh costais de go mbeidh an chontúirt ann go ndéarfadh daoine nach bhfuil an Ghaeilge — cé go bhfuil sí tábhachtach — nach bhfuil sí tábhachtach go leor agus b'fhéidir go dtiocfaidh linn an plean seo a chur ar an mhéar fhada. Tá an dainséar sin ann. Ach tá sé tuigthe san am atá i láthair, fiú amháin san Eoraip, chomh tábhachtach agus atá na mionteangacha agus caomhnú na mion-teangacha agus tá sé tábhachtach go dtuigfimís nach dtig linn an rud seo a chur ar an mhéar fhada. Tá sé ráite sa chaipéis, ar leathanach 7 — agus béarfaidh mé an píosa díbh atá mé ag caint faoi —"Ní chuirfear an athbheochaint i gcrích ach de thoradh mór-ghníomhaíocht diongbhálta. Ar an luas a bhfuil an teanga ag meath sa Ghaeltacht seans go mbeidh uain na pleanála caillte laistigh de 10 mbliana eile. Is léir go mba tuar báis don athbheochaint ar fad an Ghaeltacht a bheith imithe i léig níos mó ná mar atá." Is é sin le rá muna ndéantar gníomh anois beidh sé ro-mhall faoi cheann cúig nó 10 mbliana agus ní dóigh liom go dtabharfaidh na glúnta atá le teacht maithiúnas dúinn má ligimid don seód atá againn bás a fháil. Tá sé sa nádúr ag daoine nach dtuigeann siad chomh tábhachtach a bhíos rud go dtí go mbíonn sé caillte agus ó thaobh na Gaeilge de bhéadh sé rómhall an tábhacht a aithint dá mbéadh sé caillte againn.

Ag caint arís ar chostas agus caitheamh airgid de, ba chóir a chinntiú go bhfuil an t-airgead atá á chaitheamh le caomhnú na Gaeilge á chaitheamh go héifeachtúil agus tá rud amháin ba mhaith liom a rá anseo ó thaobh na gcoláistí samhraidh de. Is maith an rud ar fad na coláistí samhraidh agus ní dóigh liom go bhfuil dóigh níos fearr leis an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim ach a bheith sa Ghaeltacht ag na coláistí samhraidh agus an Ghaeilge thar timpeall ar na daoine agus sna títhe. Molaim go mór an obair atá déanta ag coláistí samhraidh ach ba mhaith liom a rá gur chóir measúnú a dhéanamh ar na coláistí sin. B'fhéidir go bhfuil cuid acu ag cur níos mó béime ar Mhammon ná mar atá ar mheas na teangan. Chím i gcáipéis Ghael-Linn polasaí a chuir siad amach faoi oideachas i nGaeilge i 1981 go bhfuil sé molta fosta go ndéanfaí measúnú ar choláistí na Gaeilge: is é sin le rá a chinntiú gurab í an teanga agus caomhnú na teangan an rud is tábhachtaí agus nach é Mammon mar atá ráite agam.

Anois tá roinnt gnéithe tábhachtacha ba mhaith liom a lua agus ní féidir liom achan rud atá sa cháipéis seo a lua. Tá trí rud déarfainn is tábhachtaí má tá an teanga le caomhnú, agus an chéad rud an Ghaeltacht. Mar adeir an cháipéis, tá staid na Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht ag dul i léig. Níl dabht ar bith faoi sin. Is ón Ghaeltacht mé féin. Caithim cuid mhór ama i nGaeltacht Thír Chonaill i nGaoth Dobhair agus cluinim anois na páistí féin le roinnt blianta ag caint Béarla i gclós na scoile. Tá an Béarla ag teacht isteach i ngach gné de shaol na ndaoine sa Ghaeltach. Cad chuige sin. Tá roinnt réasún. Tá mé ag déanamh gurab é an chéad rud ná an forbairt tionsclaíoch atá déanta sa Ghaeltacht le blianta anuas, agus is maith an rud an forbairt tionsclaíochta. Ar ndóigh, thug sé daoine ar ais go dtí an Ghaeltacht agus choinnigh sé daoine sa Ghaeltacht a chaithfeadh imeacht thar sáile gan na monarchana a bheith ann, ach tá eagla orm go raibh, mar atá i gcuid mhór rudaí sa tír, easpa pleanála ag dul i bhfeidhm anseo. Is é an rud a thárla nuair a tugadh na monarchana isteach sa Ghaeltacht nach raibh pleanáil fadtéarmach déanta agus, mar shampla, ní raibh oibrithe ar bith sa Ghaeltacht a raibh an Ghaeilge acu agus a raibh na scileanna acu le dul ag obair sna monarachana sin. Ní raibh bainisteoirí ar bith ón Ghaeltacht; ní raibh ceardaithe ar bith ón Ghaeltacht. Is é sin ní raibh plean fadtéarmach leagtha amach agus nuair a cuireadh na monarchana ar bun b'eigean daoine a thabhairt isteach nach raibh Gaeilge acu agus bhí droch thioncur ag sin sin ar an Ghaeltacht mar a thuigfidh daoine go furasta.

Nuair a bhí Béarla agus Gaeilge ag muintir na Gaeltachta ba é an rud is fusa i bhfad ná go dtosnódh muintir na Gaeltachta ag caint Béarla sa dóigh go dtuigfeadh na daoine a tháinig isteach iad, agus mar sin d'éirigh an nós imeasc muintir na Gaeltachta a bheith ag caint Béarla. Tá sé tábhachtach, dá bhrí sin, go mbeadh monarchana sa Ghaeltacht ach tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach go mbeadh oiliúint ar siúl do bhunú na Gaeltachta sa dóigh go mbeadh siad ábalta jobanna a ghlacadh ag gach leibhéal sna monarchana, is é sin sa bhainistíocht agus in obair go bhfuil scileanna ar leith de dhíth faoin a choinne. Mar adeir an cháipéis, má théann an Ghaeltacht i léig níos mó nó an Ghaeilge sa Ghaeltacht i léig níos mó níl seans ar bith ag athbheochaint na Gaeilge. An dara rud tábhachtach ná an media. Tá tionchar, is dócha, níos mó ag an media ar shaol na daoine anois ná rud ar bith eile go mórmhór an teilifís agus an raidio. Ba mhaith liom ar dtús cúpla focal a rá faoi Radio na Gaeltachta. Tá sárobair déanta ag Raidio na Gaeltachta i gcaomhnú na teangan. Ar an gcéad dul síos, tá caidreamh curtha ar siúl acu idir na Gaeltachtaí agus idir muintir na Gaeltachta ar fud na tíre agus is rud maith é sin. Mothaíonn muintir na Gaeltachta i Tír Chonaill anois nach bhfuil siad leo féin, go bhfuil Gaeltachtaí eile, agus an caidreamh sin ar siúl eatarthu. Chothaigh sé fosta agus tá sé ag cothú meas agus bród as an Ghaeilge i measc muintir na Gaeltachta. Rud eile ba mhaith liom a lua faoi Raidio na Gaeltachta tá se ag freastal ar phobal Gaelach Thuaisceart na hÉireann agus sin rud an-tábhachtach. Tá a fhios agaibh nach bhfuil na háiseanna céanna i dTuaisceart na hÉireann agus atá sa taobh seo tíre ó thaobh na Gaeilge de agus is mór an rud Raidio na Gaeltachta a bheith ar fáil do Ghaeilgeoirí an Tuaiscirt agus tá a fhios agam féin go n-éisteann cuid mhór leis agus da bhrí sin ba mhaith an rud é a leathnú amach agus b'fhéidir é bheith ar siúl i rith an lae. Rud eile tá mé ag déanamh gu féidir a dhéanamh le cuidiú le Gaeilgeoirí an Tuaiscirt ó thaobh Raidio na Gaeltachta de ná iriseoir lánaimseartha a chur ar fáil sa Tuaisceart sóisialta, cúrsaí polaitíochta an Tuaiscirt fá choinne Raidio na Gaeltachta. Chuideodh sé sin leis an Ghaeilge a chothú imeasc muintir an Tuaiscirt.

Rud eile faoin media ba mhaith liom a rá: bíonn cuid mhór béime ó am go h-am ar theilifís agus nach bhfuil go leor Gaeilge ar siúl ar an teilifís agus gídh gur mhaith an rud é níos mó cláracha Gaeilge a chur ar fáil, im thuairimse tá sé níos tábhachtaí cláracha fiúntacha agus cláracha suimiúla a chur ar siúl is é sin na h-áiseanna a bheith ann in RTÉ agus béim a chur ar fhiúntas; ní hé amháin an líon cláracha a bheadh ar siúl ach caighdeán na gclár sin. Tá a fhios againn uilig dá mbeadh 10 gclár ar siúl agus iad uilig neamh-shuimiúil ní dhéanfadh sé sin rud ar bith ar son na Gaeilge ach dá mbeadh cláracha suimiúla, caighdéan árd acu agus na háiseanna acu le cláracha fiúntacha a chur amach, is mó go mór lucht éisteachta a bheadh ar fáil chun a leithéid sin cláracha. An tríú rud ba mhaith liom a lua ná an t-aos óg agus is dóigh gur seo b'fheídir an rud is tábhachtaí uilig, is é sin meas na Gaeilge agus seans foghlaim na Gaeilge a thabhairt do aos óg na tíre seo. Is dócha an chuid is mó againn den ghlúin seo anois go bhfuil roinnt mhaith Gaeilge againn. Tá sin ins an cháipéis atá léite againn, agus tá sé tábhachtach ó thaobh an aosa óig ní hé amháin go mbeadh áiseanna acu le Gaeilge a fhoghlaim ach go mbeadh oideachas ar siúl fá na gcoinne, go dtuigfeadh siad tábhach na Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim agus gur rud é mar sin nach raibh dúil acu ann ach tá sé tábhachtach a mhíniú do pháistí trí oideachas, trí chláracha teilifíse, trí gach dóigh is féidir an tábhacht atá ag baint lena dteanga féin. Is dóigh ó mo thaobh féin go bhfuil an t-ádh orm go raibh an Ghaeilge liom ón gcliabhán agus ó thaobh oideachais de go raibh mé ar scoil i gClochar Louis, Mhuineacháin áit gur cothaíodh meas na Gaeilge ionainn agus gur thuigeamar tábhacht na Gaeilge ach tá eagle orm go bhfuil cuid mhór pháistí agus iad óg sa tír seo anois agus gur sort nuisance, má thiocfaidh liom an focal Béarla a rá — an Ghaeilge agus nach maith leo éigin dóibh — a fhoghlaim agus tá sé tábhachtach go dtuigfidh siad agus go gcuirfí sin rompu sna scoileanna an tábhacht atá le caomhnú na Gaeilge sa dóigh gur mhaith leo í a fhoghlaim. Má thuigeann siad tábhacht na Gaeilge beidh fonn orthu í a fhoghlaim agus tá sé ráite fosta ag an Coirnéal Ó Néill sa mheamram a chuir sé roimh Forum Nua Éireann faoi thábhact na Gaeilge ó thaobh seasmhacht na tíre, agus ba mhaith liom díreach an abairt seo a léamh amach agus seo rud eile gur chóir dúinn uilig meabhrú air:

Where a community is ignorant of its culture, under-values it or where its culture is denied or treated with disdain, this promotes the situation where the community is denied its foundations, its basis and its stability. The culture of a community however can only be an effective force for stability in a community when the community is aware of its distinctive culture, knows it and values it.

Is dóigh liom gur rud an-tábhachtach é sin. Ó thaobh Thuaisceart na hÉireann, ba mhaith liom cúpla focal a rá. Is dóigh liom go bhfuil sampla i dTuaisceart na hÉireann den méid is féidir a dhéanamh i gcothu na teanga má tá meas againn air agus má thuigimid a thábhacht. Tá a fhios agaibh ar ndóigh nach bhfuil sé de iachall ar scoíleanna an Tuaiscirt an Ghaeilge a theagasc. San am chéanna feicimid cothú agus caomhnú na Gaeilge i mBéal Feirste, i lár Uladh agus in áiteacha eile sa Tuaisceart ag daoine a thuigeann tábhacht na Gaeilge. Tá bunscoileanna Gaeilge i mBéal Feirste chomh maith agus i nDoire.

Caithfidh mé rá gur chuir sé pléisiúr mór orm féin roinnt blianta ó shin in mo bhaile féin i Lurgan éisteacht le díospóireacht i nGaeilge ó pháistí an Tuaiscirt agus gasúr amháin a thuig mé a tháinig as Béal Feirste agus gan é ach 12 no 13 de bhlianta d'aois agus an Ghaeilge chomh líofa aige agus dá dtógfaí i nGaoth Dobhair é. Sin gasúr b'fhéidir nach raibh taobh amuigh de Bhóthar ar bhFál ón lá ar rugadh é agus bhí an Ghaeilge ar a thoil aige.

Tá mé ag déanamh gur chóir don Rialtas anseo an méid is féidir a dhéanamh le cuidiú le Gaeilgeoirí an Tuaiscirt. Mar dúirt mé cheana féin ba mhór an rud é dá mbeadh iriseoir faoi leith ó Raidio na Gaeltachta lonnaithe sa Tuaisceart ag freastal ar Ghaeilgeoirí an Tuaiscirt. Ba mhaith an rud é dá mbeadh RTE le fáil againn sa Tuaisceart. Tá áiteacha sa Tuaisceart nach féidir RTE a fháil agus tá mé ag smaoineamh ar chláracha go bhfuil rinncí Gaelacha ann agus cláracha cosúil le "Féach" agus "Trom agus Eadrom", áit a bhfuil meascán Gaeilge agus Béarla, gur féidir le daoine nach bhfuil mórán Gaeilge acu iad a leanúint. Cláracha mar sin ba mhaith an rud iad a bheith le feiceáil ag muintir an Tuaiscirt, ní hé amháin na Caitlicigh ach na Protastúnaigh fosta. Mar sin, dá mbeadh beam níos fearr de RTE againn sa Tuaisceart chuideodh sé sin. Fosta, thiocfadh linn, dá mbeadh RTE ag dul isteach sa Tuaisceart, oideachais a thabhairt do dhaoine nach le Caitlicigh na hÉireann an Ghaeilge ach gur le Caitlicigh agus Protastúnaigh na hÉireann an Ghaeilge. Síleann cuid mhór daoine gur le Poblachtánaigh agus gur le Caitlicigh í ach smaoinimís i ndeireadh na 18ú aois gurab iad na Protastúnaigh i dTuaisceart na hÉireann is mó a thosaigh athbeochan na Gaeilge agus go bhfuil cuid mhór le foghlaim againn uathu agus gur olc an rud an dearcadh cúng seo den Ghaeilge gur le dream amháin é. Ba chóir di cuidiú linn muintir na hÉireann Protastúnaigh agus Caitlicigh a thabhairt le chéile. Ba chóir don Ghaeilge i n-áit a bheith ina dheighilt eadrainn go mbéimis ábalta úsáid a bhaint aisti le muid a thabhairt le chéile. Mar adúirt mé cheana féin, is linn uilig é. Ní le dream amháin ar bith sa tír é.

I should like briefly in English to mention a few important points. I regret that Senator Robb has left because he asked me specifically to do this for him but perhaps he is listening in some other part of the House. I have a fear that because of the financial stringencies at the moment Irish may well be regarded as something which can be put on the long finger. We were discussing the Dentists (Amendment) Bill a minute ago and it struck me that there is an analogy because having a toothache cured is something that you cannot put off either because if you do you will lose the tooth and that is the end of it whereas it you look after it now you may save the tooth. Irish is very much like that. It is not something that we can say is too expensive to spend the money on now and we will wait until times are better. If we wait until times are better, as the Bord na Gaeilge plan says, it will be too late. We will have lost something that is very precious and it is only when we lose something that we appreciate it. Therefore, I do not accept the argument that when money is scarce Irish is something which is no longer a priority.

The efforts which have been made to save the Gaeltacht and to enlarge it have in some manner succeeded but on the other hand have had a bad effect on the Gaeltacht and on Irish. The reason for this is the sort of ad hoc approach that has been adopted — a response to pressure to do something without a proper long-term planned approach or thinking through of what is being done, with the result that the industrialisation of the Gaeltacht has led to a situation where the Gaeltacht is becoming anglicised. Should that situation continue, it will sound the death knell of Irish. I suggest that attention be paid to providing the facilities for educating the people of the Gaeltacht to be able to take up jobs in management and skilled jobs in factories so as to obviate the need to bring in people who have no Irish and therefore to defeat the original purpose of industrialising the Gaeltacht.

The other important aspect with regard to the language is the media. Those of us who have young families, particularly, know that young people are very much influenced by television. There should be more Irish on RTE television, not just more and more Irish but more in terms of quality rather than quantity. The same applies to local radio. I am not suggesting that the quality is not there at the moment. The programmes we have are excellent but I expect that the Authority would welcome more facilities so that they could enlarge their programmes and deal with subjects which at the moment they may not be able to deal with. It is not good enough for Irish language programmes to deal simply with the Gaeltacht. There are other aspects of Irish life which are of interest to people and which could be dealt with. There should be an attempt to improve the quality of output in Irish on our radio and television networks, particularly with reference to Radio na Gaeltachta which I have already mentioned in Irish. That service should be enlarged. In order to facilitate the Irish-speaking population in the North, which is substantial. A full-time person from Radio na Gaeltachta should be in Northern Ireland reporting and discussing Northern issues — social issues and all the various issues which are of importance to the people of the North — because Radio na Gaeltachta has quite an audience in Northern Ireland. I know that from people who come and tell me about it. Even, believe it or not, a person from the Northern Ireland office told me recently that he listens regularly to Radio na Gaeltachta. I do not know how much of it he understands but he says he listens to it.

I should like to make the point before finishing that Irish has come to be seen as a divisive force. We seem to have a capacity for finding divisiveness in issues which really should unite us. Irish is one of those issues. I would remind the House that Irish is not the property of Catholic Ireland or indeed of Nationalist Ireland or of Republican Ireland. Irish is the property of all Irish people, Unionists as well, and there are Unionists who do appreciate that, but it is for us who really love the language to get across in all the ways that we can to those people that Irish is something which enriches them as well as us. Let us also remind ourselves that if it had not been for a number of Protestants, and I am not referring only to Douglas Hyde and people like that of more recent times, Irish might have been lost. In the late eighteenth century when the policy of the British Government was to try to finish Irish in Ireland, the Protestants were the ones who recognised the danger signals and who began the Gaelic revival. It is a pity that it has now come to a stage, certainly in Northern Ireland, where Irish is equated with Republicanism, even, might I say, with Provo-ism. That is a terrible pity. The organisations who have done so much for the Irish language on a voluntary basis ought to bear that in mind and ought to be very careful to separate the Irish language and its restoration from party political points of view because, for goodness sake, when we do find something which is common to both our traditions let us please work on that and use it as a unifying force rather than as a divisive force.

Tá áthas orm a rá go bhfuil sé de phribhléid agam ar an ocáid seo fáilte a chur roimh Pádraig Ó Tuathail, Aire na Gaeltachta, fear as Mhaigh Eo, mo chontae dhúchais féin. Tá eolas maith agam féin agus ag an tAire ar a chéile mar gur chaitheamar tamall ag obair le chéile mar chomhairleoirí ar Chomhairle Chontae Mhaigh Eo. Ní haon strainséar sa Teach seo é ach an oiread. Thainig sé anseo den céad uair 10 mbliain ó shin, mar is eol díobh go léir.

Go deimhin, tá sé le maoímh agam mar fear as Chontae Mhaigh Eo go bhfuil seilbh tógtha beagnach ag mo chontae ar Aireacht na Gaeltachta. Ba é Pádraig Ó Loinsigh, na hArd Cúirte faoi láthair, an chéad Aire a cheapadh don phost. Chaith Mícheál Ó Moráin atá imithe ar slí na fírinne, go ndéana Dia grásta air, seal san oifig chomh maith, agus le deireannaí rinne an Teachta Ó Gallchóir agus an Teachta Ó Floinn obair ion-mholta san Aireacht céanna. Tá an tAire, an Teachta O'Toole thar a bheith cáilithe don phost atá idir lámha aige mar gur cainteoir ó dhúchas é a bhfuil an Ghaeilge go líofa aige. Sibhse a chuala a oráid breá anseo ar 11 Deireadh Fómhair, ba léor díobh go léir agus go soiléir go bhfuil an Ghaeilge go smior ann.

Tar éis dom an méid sin a rá, áfach, tá mé cinnte nach bhfuil aon dul amú ar an Aire faoin dualgas atá amach roimhe, agus tá a fhios agam go ndéanfaidh sé a seacht míle dhícheall an Ghaeilge a shabháil agus a scaipeadh mar theanga labhartha. Go n-éirí go geal leis.

So many fine contributions have been made on this topic that much of what I had intended to say by way of addition can now be regarded as superfluous. It is indicative of the anxiety that people have in relation to the present status and position of Irish, the manner in which it is currently under threat of extinction, that so many people thought it worth their while to contribute in both languages, and may I say very meritoriously and at some considerable length, on the subject. Senator Rogers in her very fine contribution in both languages made the very accurate point, a point worth deliberating on, that Irish is not the preserve or the monopoly of any one party, of any one group, of any one ethnic group or of any one religious group. Too often in the past one of the great militating factors against the language was that it was associated with certain groups and that certain people have tended to monopolise it.

A true indicator of the present serious position of the Irish language is the position of the ever-shrinking perimeter of the Gaeltacht. The Gaeltacht that was three miles beyond Galway just ten years ago has now gone out beyond Furbo, beyond Barna and beyond Spiddal and is gradually being pushed into the sea. That is a fact of life and we are as well to face up to it. The Minister in his very fine address did face up to it. He was very pragmatic and realistic that this is a rescue attempt that we are about, that we really are at the eleventh hour and that if this plan does not succeed we are in fact indicted because the language will die. The position is that serious.

A further point made by Senator Rogers is well worth dwelling on also. That is that we should look on Irish as being the primary distinguishing cultural value we have. We can mobilise our energies for a display of nationalism to the language, to a revival of the language and do it in a practical way rather than in the misguided way some thugs and criminals masquerading as patriots have chosen to do, that is by way of force of arms. One of the great scourges in relation to the Irish language for which I am very grateful to a former Minister for Education, Mr. Dick Burke, for removing, was the requirement of having Irish in the leaving certificate. That compulsory element led to many generations having an innate grudge against the language. It is not that statistically many people failed their leaving certificate examination as a result but there was the fear that if you did fail your leaving certificate as a result of Irish, Irish was to blame. That is why the removal of the compulsory aspect of Irish was a very positive step indeed.

Another reason why Irish finds itself in the troubled state it is in, is the overemphasis on grammar. This is a point that was well made by Senator O'Brien in his contribution. I would make the point that when the English came to this country to anglicise it, they did not worry about English grammar. They did not worry about syntax. Their concern was the implanting of English in the minds of people. This they did with the result that today we have reached a level of oral proficiency and competence in the English language so that people actually come here to learn it from us.

With regard to Irish, we would do well to bear in mind that other countries and other languages adopt more modern methodology than we employ in this country. I consider the spoken word as being of primary importance and the written word as being of secondary importance.

Language is a vehicle of oral communication. If one relegates it to the written word only, one gives it the same status as Latin and Greek, dead languages which are now being phased out, though not in all cases, and rightly so, from our curricula. We must achieve an oral proficiency first and I see the oral expression of language as then being the window to written competence.

The real secret is that we have to strive to win the young people on to the side of Irish. We have to re-implant in them a genuine love of the language. I have read through the reports of the two previous days on which this topic was debated. On both days there was heavy emphasis laid on the need for more money, that there would have to be greater resources. There will have to be greater resources. but all the resources and money in the world cannot substitute for a re-awakening of a genuine desire, love, care, concern and affection for the language. How we do this is the real challenge facing us today.

I want to commend the Minister for his pragmatic address through the other medium earlier. He made the point — one worth bearing in mind — that we are not out to evict, reject or kill the English language and replace it with Irish. What we want to do is arrive at a situation in which the two languages can peacefully co-exist, live side by side. Surely if it can be done in continental countries—where there is a fair degree of bilingualism — certainly we should be able to do it here.

I agree with many of the contributions that have been made. I do not wish to be repetitive, particularly with regard to remarks made in relation to the role of the media, television and so on. The plan is a good one. The motion was a very worthwhile one. I wish the Minister, his Department, the plan and Bord na Gaeilge well.

I should like to welcome the report published by Bord na Gaeilge. I see this report as a serious step in halting the decline or the demise of the Irish language. I welcome also this all-party motion which calls for the setting up of an all-party Oireachtas committee to consider the plan and to review the present position. I would recommend that the teaching profession be represented on that proposed committee. They are the people who will be — to a great degree — the promoters of the language.

The various aspects of this report have been well discussed by Senators over a number of weeks. It was in my capacity as a qualified primary teacher that I studied the report. Therefore, I will confine most of my comments to the area which deals specifically with the primary school system.

There is strong and repeated reference in this report to the use of pilot schemes. In my experience the pilot scheme used in relation to the Irish language — which resulted in the Buntús scheme in primary schools — holds no joy or happiness for me. I have good reason to believe that that pilot scheme was given extra special attention in schools in which it was implemented. Its failure was somehow overlooked in an anxiety to come up with an alternative to the old system of teaching Irish. It did fail and there is evidence to prove it. The standard of Irish has fallen considerably. In my opinion it failed because the scheme was based on the conviction that children of school-going age could be taught for a short period, and not in a bilingual environment, to think in Irish while living in an English-speaking environment. It is not possible to implement the Buntús scheme as was not only suggested but insisted upon by Department inspectors in particular. The direct method, along with the fact that the teacher was not allowed to translate any of the dialogue, can only succeed when operating or working with the child's first language. Therefore, when one says to a child: "sin bórd" or "sin urlár" the child thinks in his or her mind — it is a silent translation — that is a table, floor and so on, and then repeats the translation that he has made in his mind.

I welcome also the move by the Department of Education away from this method, as presented in the Buntús, to direct dialogue, with more emphasis on bilingualism, as now presented in the infant classes. I regret, however, that the move away from the exclusivity of teaching Irish through the medium of Irish, in an English-speaking environment, has as yet not been brought forward into the first, second and third classes, and so on.

I might now advance some of the reasons why the Irish language has reached this critical stage. There are various and many reasons. It is my belief that the most serious one was the compulsion element; secondly, the preferential treatment given to the language, indeed right up to this day. If one failed Irish one failed one's examinations. Thankfully that situation has now ceased. But was it costly? Not only did it foster indifference to the language, it fostered an active aversion. This is going to be the biggest hurdle in the promotion or renewal of Irish. I have no doubt that this hurdle can be surmounted provided careful action is taken, and I deliberately use the word "careful".

At this point I must refer to other proposals in the report and to the situation obtaining which causes resentment and still suggests compulsion. In relation to school transport. Near the Gaeltacht area, not far from my home, there are two primary schools, one Gaeltacht and one Galltacht. Close to the Galltacht school are families who wish to travel to the Gaeltacht school and vice versa. However, the Gaeltacht children wishing to go to the Galltacht school have to comply with the Department of Education rules on distance and so on to qualify for free transport. However, the same provisions do not apply to children who wish to travel to the Gaeltacht school — they have free transport and naturally an element of resentment exists.

To say the least, there are quite a number of aspects which are unfair to teachers; they are unfair not by way of criticism but rather by way of omission. For example, there is reference — quite correctly — to a drop in the standard of Irish. Yet the report omitted to say that the Buntús scheme as presented in the primary school was and is frustrating and counter-productive to both teachers and children with no clear definition of its objective, the basic principle of good teaching being to have an objective. The report refers to the aim of having Irish taught for a minimum of one hour per day. That is being done, and more. For example, there is the Buntús scheme, there is Irish reading and writing. From my experience these involved anything up to two hours per day. But this suggestion that Irish be taught for a minimum of one hour per day implies otherwise and more resentment may follow.

I revert now to my use of the word "careful". If we are to have the teaching profession working fully behind this report we must not say anything which would seem to imply that they are not doing their work or spending their time on the language. Furthermore, consultation is constantly mentioned as being important. Yet according to my information the teaching union with which I am most familiar, the INTO, were asked for a submission. The report was presented but they had not been consulted. I am talking about sitting down, going through the suggestions as they relate to the primary school and saying: "What about this, that or the other?" That has not been done. Yet the Minister has accepted that this report be implemented throughout the educational system without consultation. I really regret this having happened.

The proposals concerning "in-service" courses under present circumstances are just simply not feasible. The majority of the funds over the years have been allocated to Irish "in-service" courses. When more are required it is a serious omission not to refer also to the fact that "in-service" courses funding must be made across the board.

I have spoken to teachers about the implementation of the plan. The consensus is that, if they are to spend more time than they are already giving to the Irish language within the ridiculous scheme called the Buntús it will be at the expense of environmental studies.

Teaching resource centres also need to be extended, not only for Irish but across the board and not on an exclusive basis, as is implied by the report. Another matter which causes grave resentment is the fact that all-Irish schools have much greater advantages. They have almost twice the funding, preferential pupil/teacher ratios and exceptional grants for buildings and sites. These are, of course, the scoileanna teanga Gaeilge. To achieve the required aim — an easy and comfortable acceptance of the language — a balance must be achieved in the interests of equity and co-operation. It is also important to point out that all teachers leaving teacher-training colleges at present are deemed to be qualified to teach in Galltacht and Gaeltacht and scoileanna lán Ghaelacha.

I make these points because I want to see a successful renewal of the Irish language. I do not want to see this report lie on the bottom of a shelf gathering dust. Having seen the way the "buntús" was literally jumped at and then definitely ignored by the pupil element in the classroom quite likely it could happen or, even worse, be accepted at face value because nobody else will come up with an alternative. I want to see good active debate, improvement and implementation of the basic aim of this report, that is the concept of Irish as a living vibrant language.

I am just getting an elementary lesson on my right here. Perhaps the observations of someone who could only count to ten in the language—áon, dó, trí, ceathar, cúig, sé, seacht, ocht, naoí, deich — might be of interest to the Minister if not to the rest of the assembly.

I should like to start by making the point that about three years ago I took my four children to the western Hebrides. Having crossed the Minch, with not altogether complete success, we arrived in Lewes and Harris. They were quite surprised to find that, first of all, they were in an area of Scotland which was staunchly Protestant and yet who were clinging on to the Gaelic — if I may use that word — language as their first language. So I asked them to think about it. I also asked them to think what did the Minch have that the Irish Sea did not have. I then confused them completely by telling them that their ancestors had arrived in Down and Antrim — I think pre-plantation if I may say so — with this language and that three generations back there was a Presbyterian minister who gave his sermons in Belfast in Gaelic. What had happened that the language had been lost? The first thing one must say is that the Hebrides cannot have posed the same threat to the English crown as did the people of Ireland. Therefore there may not have been the same necessity, or even the same reason, for going there to beat the language out of them. That is one side of it. The other side of it is that, if you consider what happened to the language in the last century, I come to the same conclusion as David Hammond, who comes out of the same tradition as myself and who is a well-known authority on the folk scene in Northern Ireland, that in one sense language is an expression of power. In that sense it is also an expression of imperialism associated with power. One could think of the Russian language, of the English language, indeed one could have thought of the French language in this respect. One could ask what happened to the lanque d'oc in the south of France, what has happened to the Breton language: how did they manage to hold on to it when so many other regions have not held on to their local language? It is interesting in this respect to consider what Daniel O'Connell did with the language, and why he did it. Presumably there was feeling in the last century that you were a disadvantaged person, that you were a diminished person, if you sought to conduct your affairs through the medium of the native Gaelic language because the English language was associated with power and those who lived cheek by jowl with their lords and masters in the towns and cities felt that, in order, to survive, they would have to adopt this language style. Recently I was speaking to a surgeon who has returned home to Northern Ireland from Zambia. We were discussing this problem of local languages and the elimination of so many in the last century. He told me he had actually witnessed African teachers in Zambia beating the children for speaking in school in their native language and not speaking through the medium of English. While, in one sense, we could say that language is an expression of imperialism or power, on the other side, we have to say to ourselves: what does the language have to offer? Why are we anxious to preserve a particular language? Perhaps it is only in the language that we can preserve the things that are unique in our inheritance in relation to the ethnicity of the people that we belong to and, if we lose a language, we lose a whole set of values, a whole set of ways of looking at things which are essential if we wish to have a global society in which variety is preserved so that we have biological, psychological and social health. It is uniqueness versus uniformity that I think we are talking about. It is particularly important at this time in the development of European man and man in general.

Language is a way of storing, in a unique way, the heritage of the people. So I make an appeal for the preservation of the language, perhaps not for reasons which may be commonplace here but because I believe that diversity is vitally important to mankind's survival. Let us look at the effects of centralism and consumerism and the product of this, which is uniformity throughout western society. Pollution and plunder go unabated. We have lost 300 mammal species, we have lost 350 bird species, we have lost 20,000 plant species and we are in the process of losing many hundreds of languages millennia old which have disappeared in the course of the last 100 years. Yet any ecologist will tell you that, for survival, it is vital that the ecosystems are as complex — not as simple — as possible so that the built-in regulating systems which go with variety, with diversity, are preserved and so we ensure our survival rather than our destruction.

Now one can look upon it in relation to the power game at present being played. The preservation of language gives us a tool whereby we can challenge all-pervading centralism and try to preserve what is good, what makes us what we are, where we live. Therefore, on the one hand I would say global language is an expression of power and, on the other hand, local language is one means of challenging that power. And I would emphasise the point already made: we need both.

Now what happened to the loyalists of the North of Ireland who came from Scotland? I have mentioned that they came with the Gaelic language. In fact, some still speak it, and certainly in the last century in the Glens of Antrim it was spoken. As Members who have travelled in County Antrim will know broad Scots, in the English style, is still spoken. In fact some people would say that the dialect in North Antrim is more of the old Scots than is spoken in many parts of Scotland today.

On the one hand I feel that we sold out on our cultural inheritance because of the way in which we felt threatened by — for want of a better expression — Catholic nationalism in Ireland: we slipped in under the British umbrella and the British umbrella meant speaking the British language. On the other hand, I would suggest also that, at the time of the language revival, the culture itself was also hi-jacked by that tradition. Therefore we have this conflict which was developed over the first part of this century and which we are now trying to resolve. Supposing we did understand the language of which as I explained at the start I have a very limited knowledge, we might know the significance of such a thing as "Tír Fergus" when we stand at what was once known as Port Brittas in the old chronicles, near Ballycastle, and look across to Machrihanish Bay in Scotland, the Land of Fergus. Very few people in the North of Ireland actually know the story of Fergus McGuirk, leaving the ancient Kingdom of Dalriada — my pronunciation may not be perfect — and sailing across there with the Lia Fáil about the early part of the seventh century. What is the Lia Fáil I asked an audience in Northern Ireland recently. I said, "Hands up here all who know what the Lia Fáil is". Nobody could tell me. Then somebody said it was the Stone of Destiny. I was able to tell him that it is the stone of strength — with which I am sure Senators will agree — and that of course that stone sings when the right man is crowned upon it.

But there are other aspects of language. We have the significance of place names, the association of place names, the significance of the old Irish stories, the names that are used in them being denied to those who do not know the language. In my opinion, not only for an understanding of Ireland but also for an understanding of the relationship between Ireland and Scotland, there is much to be said for a loving and inquisitive development of the language.

I do not know whether the significance was lost on many people — I am sure not by those who speak the language well — but I was very impressed when I learned on the day of the opening of the New Ireland Forum that its Chairman had addressed the meeting in Scottish Gaelic. Its significance might have received more publicity than it did.

The point I should like to make is that we who have grown apart from the language cannot be browbeaten or beaten back into it. One of the encouraging things about the little part of the discussion I have heard and understood is that that is not the intention: it is quite the reverse. It is important for us to think in terms of our roots. If we think globally we act locally and, in terms of language while we must have global outreach, global outreach means nothing if it is not rooted locally. I would appeal to those interested in the language to see it as a means of redressing the balance between the power that is implied by the use of English and the weakness which that gave in the context of the use of Irish and to establish balance. We need to acknowledge that while the Irish language was in fact beaten out of the Irish people we do not want to fall into the same trap and use it as a political tool to diminish those who do not, as yet, have it and to make those who do have it feel that they are superior beings. Anyone who travels in South Africa will be well aware of the dangers into which the Afrikaans language falls in that respect. By the same token, I would say two things. Senator J. Higgins mentioned the need to use it as a spoken language. I never learned the written Afrikaans but when I went to South Africa the first thing I did was to go to a language laboratory and learn the spoken Afrikaans. If the South African would not have opened up to you because of his feeling that his language was something superior he certainly opened up not only himself but his heart and his home if you made an effort to address him in his language, even if you did not know how to spell the words that you were pronouncing. Senator J. Higgins made the point — which I would like to emphasise — that long before anybody could write a word of any of the languages we speak they had been speaking them for millennia.

If there is to be a revival of the language I hope it will grow out of the ground freely, that it will become a growing symbol of our challenge to global centralism rather than an assertion of Gaelic imperialism, that it will become something that will be cherished rather than imposed and that it will become something that beckons us because it has a fascination for us. In that context I would ask Members of the Seanad to ask themselves seriously if the language is being done a service or a disservice by retaining Article 8.1. of the Constitution. As a person — again I emphasise this as somebody who does not speak the language — it seems to me that it runs the danger of holding up the language to ridicule because here it claims that the Gaelic language is the first official language. Everybody knows that in general parlance or general perception it is certainly not used as the first official language. If it was ever to become the first official language it might be much more natural for us to encourage it so to become and then recognise it rather than to pretend that it is when it is not.

The House may be interested if I summarise some points that our New Ireland Group made in our submission to the New Ireland Forum in relation to the language question. Firstly, we made that point, that to claim it as the first official language was to run the risk of holding something precious up to ridicule. Secondly, to insist on a knowledge of it outside the Gaeltacht without ensuring that every child has had an opportunity in his schooling to learn it would be unfair. I am thinking now in particular of Northern Ireland. But I was very interested to read in this Action Plan for Irish 1983-1986, that there are plans to try to introduce it into the Northern schools. I hope those plans do not just include the maintained schools. I hope they will include the so-called State schools also. Thirdly, we urged the removal of all disabilities based on knowledge of the Irish language against Northerners — at this very difficult time — who might be applying for jobs in the Republic as teachers, civil servants and so on, in all areas outside the Gaeltacht.

If we are interested in reconciliation in Ireland, in growing in unity, we have to start by acknowledging that the most vulnerable people, the people who feel most threatened and most confused, are the Loyalist community who are at present thoroughly demoralised. If we are trying to be positive, if we are trying to awaken a new awareness of Irishness in them, within reason special arrangements must be made for their particular predicament. Fourthly, we urged that everything possible be done to interest those of the Loyalist tradition in the Gaelic tongue of their forbears and, in particular, to work gently towards the day when it will be taught in all primary schools throughout Ireland. I might say this submission was written before we had read the action plan.

Fifthly, in the meantime — outside the Gaeltacht — a personal option for English or Irish should be respected throughout the country and for the foreseeable future it should be clearly understood that English would remain the first language in Northern Ireland. By the same token, it should be considered offensive to enter the Gaeltacht, where an attempt is being made to preserve one of the world's most threatened languages, without making some concession toward it, even by those who at present do not speak any of it, as it would be to enter the Orange Free State in South Africa without making some concession towards Afrikaans; or as it would be for a white doctor to enter a ward of Zulus in Qwazulu without indicating respect for the language, by making a gesture of communicating it. Sixthly, we urged that it is necessary to affirm that if the Gaelic language is to have a unifying effect it must not be used as a tool to discriminate in the way in which it was, in its own time, discriminated against.

With those thoughts I wish the Minister well in his attempts to implement the Action Plan for Irish 1983-1986. I believe it is a very precious part of our heritage, not only of those who at present speak it but also of those who, perhaps through the misfortune of history, have lost it. It is also vitally important in terms of the challenge to centralism. I hope that he will be aware of the need in the future to interest the people of Northern Ireland who do not speak the language in it and to give them every encouragement without using it as a means of threatening them.

Ba mhaith liom i dtosach mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis na daoine a chuir a n-aimneacha le tairiscint an tSeanaid, is é sin na Seanadóirí Flor O'Mahony, Andy O'Brien, Brendan Ryan agus Mick Lanigan. Thug sé deis dúinn ar fad éisteacht leis na ráitis a bhí le tabhairt ag na daoine seo agus go deimhin ag suas le 15 ar fad. Ba iontach an diospóireacht a bhí againn, agus ceann de na rúdaí a tháinig treasna chugamsa i mo shuí anseo don dara huair ná go raibh pointí comórta le cloisteáil ó a lán daoine. Glacadh leis, cur i gcás, go bhfuil an Ghaeilge i mbaol. Glacadh leis go bhfuil deis againn anois rud éigin a dhéanamh faoin Ghaeilge má táimid ndáiríre faoi shabháilt na Gaeilge. Glacadh leis cur i gcás nach raibh daoine sásta leis an méid Gaeilge a bhí le cloisteál ar na meáinhcumarsáide, is é sin RTE go háirithe agus go deimhin na páipéirí nuachta. Cuireadh imní in iúl comh maith ag a lán daoine faoi staid na Gaeilge sna scoileanna.

Ní bheidh mórán ama agam. Maidir leis an Seanadóir Flor O'Mahony, dúirt sé nach raibh a gcearta á fháil ag muintir na tíre seo ó RTE, go raibh seirbhís teilifíse Stáit ansin agus nach raibh a ndualgas á dhéanamh acu. Mhol sé chomh maith go gcuirfí ar bun coistí le cur ina luí ar an chóras rialtais aitiúil agus ar na boird sláinte go mbainfidís usáid as an nGaeilge. Tá sé sin ar siúl. Bhí cruinniú speisialta ag lucht na mbord sláinte ar fud na tíre tamall ó shin agus tá oifigigh i ngach bord ceaptha le súil a choinneáil ar chur chun cinn na Gaeilge. Dúirt sé a lán rudaí eile ach ní bheidh am agam tagairt a dhéanamh dóibh.

Ghlac an Seanadóir Lanigan leis go raibh an Ghaeilge i gcruachás. Mhol sé Radio na Gaeltachta. Cháin sé RTE i ngeall ar a laghad Gaeilge a bhí á cur ar fáil acu agus chuir sé milleán ar an Roinn Oideachais maidir le múinteoirí. Mhínigh sé nach raibh aon mhilleán ar na múinteoirí ach go raibh milleán ar an gcóras a lig amach múinteoirí i measc an phobail nach raibh Gaeilge ar a mian acu. Dúirt an Seanadóir Robb agus an Seanadóir Jim Higgins go raibh an comarca béime ar an Ghaeilge scríofa, ar ghramadach agus ar sinta agus rudaí eile agus nach raibh go leor béime ar an teanga labharta.

Dúirt Senator Jack Harte nach raibh Gaeilge aige. Dúirt sé go raibh taithí aige ar an gcóras oideachais bunscoile, ach mhol sé nach n-éireodh leis an bheartas seo fhad is a bheidh éinne ag iarraidh Gaeilge a bhrú síos scornaí mhuintir na tíre seo, go gcaithfear é a dhéanamh trí mhealladh agus nach ceart é a dhéanamh ar bhealach éigeantach. Ghlac sé leis go raibh meon don fábharach Ghaeilge le fáil go forleathan ar fud na tíre agus nach mbeadh aon rath ar a bheartas dá mbeadh brú ar éinne.

Chruthaigh an Seanadóir Catherine McGuinness an tionchar a bhí ag teilifís ar mheon na ndaoine agus go mba cheart go mbeadh níos mó Gaeilge le cloisteáil ar an teilifís, go raibh ghettoism á bhunú i ngeall ar an chaoi a raibh an Ghaeilge agus feachtas athbheochana na teanga á láimhseáil. Dúirt sí go raibh cineál élitism, ag baint le seo agus éinne nach raibh Gaeilge aige nó aici nár cheart dó nó di Gael a thabhairt air nó uirthi. Ní ghlacaim le sin. Thagair sí do thábhacht na h-amharclainne chomh maith agus do thábhacht na scoileanna lán-Ghaelacha.

Dúirt an Seanadóir Séamus De Brún go raibh droch-bhail ar an nGaeilge agus muna gcuirfí chuige go luath go mbeadh sé níos measa agus go deimhin nach mbeadh teacht ar ais air.

Mhol Seanadóir Andy O'Brien, ceann des na daoine a chuir a ainm leis an tairiscint seo, go raibh prionsabal siceolaíochta anseo maidir le education, psychology and methodology. Dúirt sé nár cheart agus nár chóir de réir rialacha siceolaíochta teanga a bhrú ar pháiste óg murabh é sin teanga an chliabháin ag an bpáiste sin. Níl a fhios agam an bhfuil aon bhunús eolaíochta leis an ráiteas sin. Má tá, glacaim leis. Ba mhaith liom a fháil amach an bhfuil nó nach bhfuil. Dúirt sé chomh maith go raibh béim rómhór á leagan ar ghramadach agus ar an fhocal scríofa.

Mhol an Seanadóir Brendan Ryan obair a bhí ar siúl ag na Gael-scoileanna agus na naí-scoileanna agus chuir sé ceist orm faoi neodracht an Rialtais. Tá an Rialtas taobh thiar de phlean na Gaeilge, ghlac siad leis an phlean seo agus go dtabharfaidh siad aon chúnamh is féidir le féachaint chuige go gcuirfear an plean i gcrích.

Cheap An Seanadóir Michael D. Higgins go raibh dearcadh caol-aigeanta ag baint len a lán daoine i leith na Gaeilge, go raibh dearcadh spioradálta ag cuid eile de na daoine agus gur bhain an Ghaeilge le seo, go raibh brú ar dhaoine gan an Ghaeilge a úsáid. Ó thaobh na húdaráis áitiúla agus ó thaobh boird sláinte go raibh Gaeltachtaí mar chuid dá gceantair thug sé dúinn samplaí de áit a raibh siceolaithe ag iarraidh a fháil amach faoi dul chun cinn daoine go raibh máchail intinne orthu agus go raibh ceisteanna á chur orthu trí Bhéarla agus gan an Béarla acu mar theanga teallaigh, agus ó thaobh na siceolaíochta fiú amháin, ní amháin ó thaobh na teanga de, go raibh sé seo seafóideach.

Maidir leis an Seanadóir Fitzsimons, ceann de na rudaí a dúirt sé a bhí tábhachtach agus go raibh áthas air a bheith sa phlean ná go raibh súil á choinneáil ar dul chun cinn an phlean, go raibh monitoring i gceist. Chuir sé ceist maidir leis an seirbhís teilifíse atá molta sa phlean agus críochnaigh sé by saying "has it any hope?" Beidh mé ag freagairt sin i gceann cúpla nóiméad má bhíonn am agam.

Dúirt an Seanadóir Seán de Brún go raibh an iomarca béime leagtha ar chúrsaí airgid agus cúrsaí airgeadais agus go raibh sé i bhfad níos tábhachtaí meon mhuintir na tíre seo a bheith fábharach don Ghaeilge, agus dá mbeadh an meon sin le feiceáil fábharach don Ghaeilge go mbeadh rath ar iarrachtaí athbheochain na teanga níos fearr ná mar dá mbeadh £1 milliún againn a chaitheamh. Ní haon mhaith caitheamh airgid ann féin.

Aontaím go hiomlán leis an Seanadóir Bríd Rogers go bhfuil deis anois á fháil againn ar an Ghaeilge a shábháil. Muna nglacaimid leis an deis sin táimid i dtrioblóid agus tá an Ghaeilge i dtrioblóid. Rinne sí tagairt do thábhacht na gcoláistí Gaeilge. Anuraidh, cuir i gcás, bhí suas le 20,000 páistí ag freastal ar choláistí Gaeilge agus chomh fada agus a bhaineann liomsa mar Aire — agus bhí mé ag teagasc i gcoláistí Gaeilge le mo linn — sin ceann de na rúdaí is tábhachtaí dá bhfeicim i leith shábháilt na Gaeilge toisc agus ar an gcúis seo: tá a lán gasúr óga, cáilíní agus buachaillí go bhfuil Gaeilge á foghlaim acu mar ábhar scoile, ábhar teibí, nach dtuigeann nó nach bhfacha ariamh go bhfuil daoine ag caitheamh a saoil ó lá ag baint úsáid as an nGaeilge mar theange nó mar mheán chumarsáide. Féachann siad iad seo don chéad uair san nGaeltacht dóibh agus iad ag freastal ar choláistí samhraidh do Ghaeilge. Thiocfainn leis an Seanadóir go gcuireann forbairt eacnamaíochta na Gaeltachta isteach ar an Ghaeilge mar theanga sa Ghaeltacht. Tá deacracht anseo: muna bhfuil daoine agat ní bheidh teanga agat.

Ghlacfainn leis an moladh a rinne sí go mbeadh pleanáil agus gurb í easpa pleanála an chúis gur thárla sé seo nuair nach raibh daoine cáilithe nó oilte leis na jobanna go raibh oiliúint ag teastáil uatha le fáil sa Ghaeltacht, agus bhí ar na húdaráis na daoine sin a thabhairt isteach ón taobh amuigh. Mhol sí Raidio na Gaeltachta, rud go dtiocfainn léithi ann. Maidir le iriseoir a chur ar fáil sa Tuaisceart, sin rud go deimhim go bhfuil an-ghá leis agus ba mhaith liom a rá go bhfuil iriseoir againn sa Tuaisceart — Póilín Ní Chiaráin a bhfuil Gaeilge ar a mian aici agus go mbaintear úsáid mhaith aisti i leith tuarascálacha a chur ar fáil do RTE. Ba mhaith liom mo bhufochas a ghabháil le Senator Jim Higgins as ucht a dhea-mhéin a chur in iúl dom mar Aire agus Airí eile as Mhaigh Eo a tháinig romham. Ghlacfainn leis go hiomlán maidir leis an Ghaeilge éigeantach a bhí againn leis an scéim sin gur chuir an tAire Dick Burke deireadh leis.

Ghlacfainn leis chomh maith go bhfuil trí Ghaeilge náisiúnachas á chur in iúl, anois ní náisiúnachas caoleagantach, gur féidir linn maoímh as an Ghaeilge mar theanga ársa a bhfuil cultúir agus fealsúnacht ag baint léi mar theanga. Dúirt sé go raibh béim ró mhór á leagan ar ghramadach agus bhí an ceart aige. Arís labhair sé faoi polasaí dhá-theangach agus sin ceann de na rudaí atá le fáil anseo, go bhfuil aghaidh á thabhairt i ndeireadh na dála ar gur cheart a rá go bhfuil sé in am scrios an Bhéarla a chaitheamh i leataobh. Tá áit don Bhéarla. Tá aít don Ghaeilge i saol mhuintir na tíre seo. Tá an Béarla á labhairt agus sí an aidhm a bheadh agamsa agus go deimhin is é aidhm an phlean go mbeadh úsáid na Gaeilge chomh láidir lá éigin le úsáid an Bhéarla agus go bhféadfaí iad a úsáid taobh le taobh go nádúrtha.

Maidir leis an Seanadóir McAuliffe-Ennis mar mhúinteoir agus mise mar iar-mhúinteoir agus b'fhéidir mar mhúinteoir arís — níl a fhios agam, braitheann sé sin ar mhuintir Mhaigh Eo Thoir, is cosúil — duirt sí go raibh amhras uirthi faoi scéim phíolóta toisc an taithí a bhí aici féin mar mhúinteoir ar scéim phíolóta An "Bhuntús Cainte". D'fhoghlamar agus do deimhin bhí mé féin ag gabháil do Bhuntús Cainte mar scéim phíolóta na blianta ó shin nuair bhí mé ag múineadh agus tá a lán foghlamtha againn ó thaobh na teanga cheapfainn ó thaithí an "Bhuntus Cainte". Bhí sí ag clamhsán nár pléadh na moltaí atá sa phlean leis na múinteoirí. Ba mhaith liom a chur in iúl di agus do na Seanadóirí eile go bhfuil aon rud atá sa phlean maidir le oideachas aontaithe roimh ré leis an Roinn Oideachais, agus ghlac mise agus ghlac an bord go riabh cibé moltaí a aontaíodh ó thaobh an oideachais de, go raibh sé pléite leis na heagrais go raibh baint acu leis, is é sin eagrais na múinteoirí, leis an Roinn, sular aontaigh an Roinn leis an mbord iad. Ach ní raibh an Roinn i dteangmháil leis na heagrais go díreach.

Senator Robb's contribution was most interesting in relation to Lewis and Harris and the fact that Gaelic is still very prevalent there, probably because, as he said, it did not create any threat to the authorities of the day. Therefore people were left quietly alone, perhaps out of the motivation of contempt. I do not know what the reason was, but they were left there and they are still there today. That is probably a very good basis for the hypothesis.

He also mentioned the Protestant ethic, and that the survival of the language today in places in the North has sprung from the enthusiasm and the determination of many people who could not be termed either nationalistic in outlook or Catholic in religion. I accept that and, indeed, the terrible thing is — and it has been referred to by many Senators and in particular by Senator Rogers and Senator Robb — that the connection between the Irish language and what I would regard as so-called republicanism is doing the language no good. We all accept that. As Senator Robb said, in the past language has been an expression of strength and power. It shows pride in our roots, our traditions and our culture. If that could be got across to our people as a whole on this island, it would be accepted. I was delighted to hear the proposals made to the Forum, of which I was aware prior to the publication of the plan, and which are very closely aligned to the proposals in the Action Plan in many cases. Again the emphasis on the spoken word was referred to and the futility of trying to browbeat people into doing anything apart from learning a language. Definitely the idea of trying to impose a language is just not workable. It has not worked in the past and it has even less chance of success in the future.

Níl mórán ama fágtha agam ach ba mhaith liom a rá go bhfuil an mhaoin co-ordaithe a luaitear faoi mhír 1.1 den phlean i mbun oibre cheana féin agus scrúdú á dhéanamh acu ar na scéimeanna éagsúla atá i bhfeidhm sa Ghaeltacht. Tá an mhaoin sin ag tabhairt tosaíochta do na spriocanna atá leagtha síos sa phlean don bliain 1983, is é sin leathnú a dhéanamh ar sheirbhís ghairmtheoireach Údaráis na Gaeltachta agus comórtas spreagadh i gcóir Raidio na Gaeltachta chun suim i ndaoine óga a fhuascailt i ngnéithe do shaibhreas na teanga agus sa chultúr.

Baineann an Ghaeilge féin agus an plean leis an bpobal ar fad agus rinneadh tagairt do seo sna hóráidí a rinneadh. Is don riachtanas é mar sin go mbeadh a fhios ag gach duine go bhfuil suim aige i gcur chun cinn na Gaeilge céard iad na spriocanna atá le baint amach. Is féidir a rá go bhfuil tús curtha leis an dá scéim phobail a luaitear in alt 2 (1) den phlean agus go bhfuil réamh-scrúdú á dhéanamh chun spriocanna áirithe don óige a bhaint amach. Beidh páirt mhór le plé ag na heagrais Ghaeilge sa bheartas seo, agus ná ceapadh éinne go bhfuil na heagrais atá ar an talamh faoi láthair go bhfuil siad le caitheamh i leataobh agus gan aon áird a thabhairt orthu, ach ba cheart domsa a rá agus tá sé de dhualgais orm a rá go mbeifí ag súil go mbeídh comh-oibriú iomlán idir na heagrais atá ann le fada agus na daoine atá ag dul don phlean nua seo Boird na Ghaeilge. Tá tábhacht ar leith á baint le réimse an oideachais agus tá tagairt déanta do sin ag a lán daoine nuair a bhí siad ag dul dá gcuid óráidí agus ní abróidh mé a thuilleadh faoi ag an bpointe seo. Tá tús curtha le hathbhreithniú ar shiollabus Gaeilge na Meán Teistiméireachta chun leanúnachas i dteagasc na Gaeilge a chinntiú. Tá fógraithe ag an Aire Oideachais go bhfuil beartuithe aice bord curriculeam agus scrúduithe a bhunú agus tá a fhios agaibh féin céard atá ag tárlú ansin. Is gá go mbeadh Ranna Rialtais, údaráis áitiúla 7rl. agus daoine cosúil le boird sláinte in ann freastal ar dhaoine ar mian leo gnó a dhéanamh trí Ghaeilge agus tá sé de cheart bunúsach ag daoine, más mian leo comhfhreagras a dhéanamh tré Ghaeilge, litreacht a fháil i nGaeilge agus a gcuid gnaithí a dhéanamh trí Ghaeilge agus ba cheart go mbeadh an tseirbhís sin ar fáil. Sin ceann de na torthaí a thagann ó pholasaí dhátheangachais agus tá praghas le h-íoc air sin. On uair amháin a théann tú síos an bóthar sin caithfidh tú glacadh leis go bhfuil praghas le h-íoc, go gcaithfidh daoine é sin a thuiscint agus go bhfuil cearta á gcur ar fáil do na daoine.

Ba mhaith liom a rá maidir leis sin nuair a deirim go bhfuil cruinnithe ar siúl ag na húdaráis áitiúla, ag na boird sláinte, go bhfuil oifigigh curtha ar fáil i ngach ceantar le breathnú ina ndiaidh taobh istigh de na húdaráis.

Could I remind the Minister, if he needs reminding, that it was agreed to conclude this item at 5 o'clock and Senator O'Mahony was to get in?

Ba mhaith liom mar fhocal scoir mo bhuíochas a ghabháil ó chroí leis an Seanad ar dtús agus a chuir an deis seo ar fáil agus leis na Seanadóirí ar fad. Bhí beagnach 20 acu ann a ghlac páirt san díospóireacht seo, agus seo rud nár thárla chomh fada agus is eol dom ariamh cheana sa Seanad. Tá a fhios agam cén bóthar atá leagtha amach ag na Seanadóirí. Chomh maith leis, tá súil agam go mbeidh cuid acu ag teacht ar an gcoiste a bunófar as an rún seo nuair a bhéas sé rite. Arís, go raibh míle maith agaibh.

Rather than having the debate drag over to another day, since we are due to finish this item at 5 o'clock today, I will make a very few brief remarks in conclusion so that hopefully we can then agree the motion. First of all, may I apologise to the House again for the fact that my own Irish is not sufficiently fluent to enable me to speak easily in it, although I understand it very well, and am taking steps so that perhaps before very long I will be able to contribute as fluently in Irish as others did in some of the magnificent speeches we have heard during the debate?

May I also take the opportunity to apologise to Senator Rogers for the fact that, in getting signatures from all political groupings in the Seanad for this motion, we inadvertently left out the SDLP. That was a genuine oversight which occurred because we were trying to collect signatures during one afternoon and had not conditioned ourselves to the fact that the SDLP are here in the Seanad in a very real way through the present representative of the party here. So I do apologise to her.

The notion behind the motion was that we wanted to regenerate a commitment to the Irish language among the political parties and within the Oireachtas. We set about it deliberately on an all-party basis because the view of the four signatories was that, in so far as the role of political institutions in the revival of Irish was concerned, the best way forward would be on an all-party basis. We sought to achieve consensus on the issues and to move forward together, not least because Governments change but also because through the development of an all-party approach hopefully you will get continuity of policy over time. That is why we approached it in this way.

We felt, too, that the matter was one of urgency, that the Irish language is, as all speakers have said, in a precarious position and we felt the time had come to take a political initiative to demonstrate the political will existing in the Oireachtas to act, and to begin the process of generating new momentum.

I should like at this point to thank the Minister for agreeing to listen to the debate and for agreeing that this motion should be adopted as a first step. May I just say a few brief words about the proposed all-party committee? I am assuming that the motion will be adopted unanimously here today. It is essential that we continue this momentum now. I ask the Minister to use his good offices to have a similar motion put through the Dáil at the earliest opportunity so that hopefully we can set up the all-party committee within a matter of months and can then begin the task of reviewing in more detail the many issues raised during this debate, and the many issues and proposals contained in the Bord na Gaeilge plan. I hope the Dáil can act expeditiously on this and that we can perhaps have the relevant motions through both Houses of the Oireachtas before Christmas.

In relation to the membership of the committee, I believe that all parties should seek out members who have a genuine commitment to the language, irrespective of whether they actually speak it fluently, people who have a genuine commitment to it and are prepared to put aside party political attitudes and to act in the most committed way possible in identifying priorities for action and generating continuity of policy over time. If we go about the business of selecting members not on the basis of who is available, or who is on what other committees and therefore is not available for this one, but on the basis of genuine commitment, we can get in the Oireachtas here an institutional arrangement which will not just monitor policy, but which will act as a pressure group on all governments to continue to make progress.

I do not for a minute suggest that this Minister needs any pressure put on him, but the point remains that we need to have a pressure group of interested people in the Oireachtas who will continue to press for development in this vitally important area. As to the composition of the committee, we should not be too concerned about the size of it. The Government side will obviously have to have a majority but, if there are sufficiently large numbers of people who would like to participate in this work, then we should not be too strict about the numbers involved. We should also consider the notion of alternate members to act in this case.

Finally, since the time is up a Leas-Chathaoirligh. I should like to emphasise again that it seems to me that we must, above all else, act in the future in the context of this all-party committee on a consensus basis. We have shown we are able to do that during this debate. We have shown that we do not wish to score points against each other. Each of us in our parties is too vulnerable for that, given the record of State activity in relation to Irish over the years. If we can continue this consensus-based approach then together we can support the Minister and successive Ministers and, at least at the political level, real action will be undertaken in relation to the language.

This will be only one part of what needs to be done. The people themselves ultimately will have to make the decision whether they want it to be revived or not, or whether they wish to let it die. The politicians have now got to make their commitment so that people at least will be given leadership. They can decide on the basis of that leadership whether they want to do it or not. May I thank the Members of the Seanad on behalf of the four signatories and thank the Minister for the support for this motion?

Question put and agreed to.
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