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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Dec 1984

Vol. 106 No. 8

Registration of Potato Growers and Potato Packers Bill, 1984: Second Stage (Resumed)

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time".

When we adjourned the discussion yesterday I had almost finished my contribution to this Bill which we all agree is very necessary. I had drawn attention to the position obtaining in the market, the need for proper presentation of our products and to make sure that our potatoes were packed and presented in a proper manner to comply with the wishes of the housewife who is the final judge and arbitrator in this situation.

I stated also that it was perhaps a bit late to bring in this legislation but nevertheless, better late than never, because we can see from our mistakes in the past that this is very necessary. All of us have had experiences of rotting potatoes presented in the market, soil and stones and such things also included, and we realise that that is not good enough in this day and age. It is necessary to have our ware presented in a proper manner. If this legislation assists in that area then it is very welcome. There is no reason why we could not produce as good potatoes as they can in any other part of the world, because our climatic conditions are suitable.

We consume a large amount of potatoes each year. In fact we have the highest per capita consumption in Europe, and for that reason, even in the home market, there is a lot of ground that can be made up. There is no reason why we should have to import £27 million worth of potatoes every year. That is the situation we are faced with and that is why we have to encourage our people to buy Irish and certainly to buy potatoes. We need more than that. We cannot depend on people's patriotism, because they also have to get value for money.

I believe the legislation the Minister is introducing will help in some small way to correct the anomalies. There are a few things that can be done, I suppose, as this legislation is put through and we can monitor the problems and corrections can be made. It is very important that grading standards be applied at all times by the Department. Those standards were introduced some years ago but they were never really applied rigidly. Maybe if they were it would be better, but there were various reasons for that.

It is very important that those standards are applied. We should make sure that anybody who is breaking the law as regards the presentation and packing of potatoes is brought to justice, because people who break the law and present bad products are giving a bad name to the producers and to everybody else. We all know that in every industry there are cowboys who are prepared to make a few fast bucks and get out. The man who sticks at it year after year and who has the confidence to invest in storage and machinery has to be encouraged. By and large they are good, sound, honest farmers who are there to make a living out of it and who do not want to see any infringements of the regulations. I hope the Bill will help in some small way to improve the quality of potatoes presented. If we can get rid of this £27 million that we are paying out this year for the import of potatoes we will be doing a good day's work.

Firstly, I would like to say that I welcome this Bill proposing the registration of potato growers and potato packers. I feel it is appropriate to compliment the Minister of State for the untiring work he has put into the compilation of this Bill. It is not today or yesterday he has addressed himself to what was a very obvious need but yet one that did not get attention until recently. I know the Minister of State has been concerned about this for some years, and since his appointment he has been very active in relation to this matter.

As the Minister of State said yesterday, essentially the objective of this Bill is to co-ordinate the efforts in the whole area of potato production, processing and marketing. There is need to include in that whole co-ordination process the position of individual producers, those who assemble potatoes, merchants and any others concerned directly or indirectly with the industry. This is essentially the core of the Bill, and it is something that is to be lauded very much as we set about to co-ordinate the effort in the levels of production, processing, marketing and also to co-ordinate very clearly and very precisely the functions and the involvements of the persons concerned.

One point that needs to be stated and was referred to yesterday by a speaker is the standards of our potatoes. It is only fair to place on the record that the standards of our potatoes are extremely high in many instances but they are not identifiable. They are not on record, and lack of registration is one of the reasons that leads us to believe that standards are not as good as they actually are. At present there is an obvious need to do something, as the Bill proposes, in the area of storing, packing and grading of potatoes. There is little point in having a good product if that particular product is not packaged well and stored well. One finishes up with a very deteriorated product if the area of packing and storage is not attended to very carefully.

The Minister of State indicated that surveys had revealed that 50 per cent of potatoes have not adequate storage facilities, that is at least on a long term basis, and it is the long term basis that counts. This obviously leads to very serious wastage. Unfortunately we have in the potato industry, as we have in many facets of agriculture, a major fluctuation of production. This causes problems and demands that we have a positive and very definite programme to combat that fluctuation. In one year we can have massive supplies and massive returns of potatoes which will sell in the market at very poor prices while other years we will have short supply situations and very high prices obtaining. That happens from year to year but unfortunately a similar situation can happen within a season. It is a positive argument why we need the degree of organisation that is inherent in this Bill, which I hope will get the full support of this House.

Senator Hussey referred to the importation of potatoes. I subscribe to the idea that we must cease to be importers of potatoes and strive to be exporters of that crop which we can so ably produce. In 1982 we imported £25 million, in 1983, it was £17 million and in 1984 the estimate is £27 million to £28 million. These figures are excessive, unwarranted, and they are figures we should not have for potato imports. It is a crop we can produce well having regard to the suitability of our soil and climate. There is no reason why those figures should apply.

EC membership brings with it free trade in the area of potato sales. We must be geared for those situations and must be conscious of that factor. Until 1980 we were protected from open competition. We must recognise that. This is best done by producing the right article, packaging it and presenting it well. Poor quality potatoes militate against doing something positive. We must take a hard look at varieties of potatoes and examine the varieties that package well, store well and can be presented well. We have plenty of knowledge not alone in the area of potatoes but in other products too that an article that looks well will appeal to the customer and will sell well.

We have not addressed ourselves in any serious fashion to have meaningful research done into consumer taste. This applies to consumers of all goods. It applies very definitely to potato consumers. We do not have to set up grandiose new organisations for this purpose. We have the agencies in the institute, ACOT, the Department of Agriculture and other agencies. Their resources should be harnessed and they should be given a direction to go out to the market place and find out what type of potatoes the consumer wants. The same would apply with other products. In the case of potatoes, which we are concerned with this morning, this needs to be done.

We should strive to produce what the market wants rather than what we have been doing so far, trying to market what we produce. I emphasise "trying to market". We have set about marketing whatever was there. The day has come when we must make certain that what we are marketing is something that is produced in the knowledge that there is a demand for the product. That could not be over-emphasised. We must never attempt to take any aspect of potato production in isolation. We must consider the entire scenario from the producing side to the time the actual potato or in its processed form reaches the consumer. Any reorganisation, recognising that we can produce the potatoes, must be done on a commercial basis. There is no point in doing this on any other basis because it will not have any results.

There are a few areas that need to be emphasised. Grading is very high on the list. If we do not have proper grading of potatoes we will not get anywhere. One should emphasise strongly the question of presentation. We are not good at this. We must present the article well. Producing the article and packaging it well is very important, but if we fail to present it well a lot will have been lost. I have already referred to varieties. There is an amount of work to be done to make certain that we have the varieties that meet the requirements of the people.

We have the co-operative society which was formed in conjunction with the Irish Farmers Association and the ICOS. There are 12 co-operative societies within that framework. It is a very positive, progressive move where not alone have we proposals before us but there is something positive on the ground. It will bring about very radical changes. There are FEOGA grants to assist in the development of this.

The Bill stipulates that those who grow ware potatoes and package them must be registered. There would then be available a clear and true record of potato producers. Eighty-five per cent of potato packers are also potato producers. The overall framework of the new development must be kept right. There is no room for weak links in the chain. I am confident that under the direction of the Minister, Deputy Hegarty and his Department this plan can and will succeed but the overall framework must be kept right. Over the last number of years the level of production of potatoes has changed dramatically. Over the last 45 years or so the area of production reduced from roughly 140,000 hectares to approximately 45,000 hectares. That is a dramatic reduction, in a comparatively short time. At a time when we need very positively to develop the agricultural industry, that decline must not be allowed to proceed any further.

As I have said, not alone must we eliminate imports of potatoes but we must set about becoming significant exporters of this crop and, in the process, relieve significantly the balance of payments deficit which at present is of serious consequence.

Potatoes are part of the total food import bill of £800 million which has been so often referred to in this House and in other places. A sizeable proportion of this can be replaced by home produced products. The figure £300 million, has been freely used. That amount of total replacement can be obtained right across the board in human and animal foodstuffs. This would be a major alleviation of our balance of payments problems and would provide enormous additional employment. I am convinced that that area, which has been referred to in recent times by the Minister must be explored. We must not leave any stone unturned.

In the potato area very obviously improvements can be made but horticulture and production of animal feed and the entire food industry can be revamped to the degree where we produce at home what we are at present in fact, importing. It is economically very unhealthy that we have this huge food bill, that we continue to talk about it but unfortunately so far we as a nation have not found it possible to do anything positive about replacing substantially the massive imports of about £300 million per year.

There is the question of added value. We must ensure that production is nationally beneficial. I appreciate that there are occasions where the economic benefit of the country and of the individual may conflict. Diversification must be examined very closely in regard to potatoes. The same, indeed, would apply to all other food that we produce here. It would apply to beef, our dairying products and so on. Added value must be a central part of any sort of future plan.

In a free and open market competition we are importing potatoes from Holland, Cyprus and other countries. We must make sure that the standard of the imported product is right. There is no point in our insisting and correctly so, on standards for the home product if we allow inferior goods to be dumped on the Irish home market. We must demand the highest standards possible for imports. I am confident that if we do our job right we will not have imports. In the eventuality that we have imports standards should be applied to them. Vis-à-vis potato production, we have a suitable climate and outstandingly good seed, good research facilities and very good advice are available to growers. A combination of all these factors will give results.

Reference was made by the Minister yesterday to the fact that the demand for this type of reorganisation of the potato industry came from the ground. That is essentially true. The Minister was being a bit modest in making that comment, because I believe that a lot of the initiative was taken by himself. I do not think that it happened spontaneously from the ground. Things do not happen the way they are thought to happen. It is true to say that it will make the operation of this registration programme more workable and more possible that there was positive initiative from the ground which the Minister picked up, took on board and brought to finality.

We must be sure that the product at all times looks well — and I underline "at all times". There is no point in having a sporadic show of appearance; it must look well at all times. The taste must be correct. If it is not correct on a limited number of occasions it is a serious matter. Above all else the keeping quality of the potato, the storing ability, must be good. I have mentioned the entire food industry and I do not want to elaborate further because we are dealing specifically with the registration of potato growers and related factors.

This Bill will do a great deal for the Irish agricultural scene and particularly for the Irish potato grower and indeed, also for the Irish potato consumer.

Coming as I do from an area that is noted for its crops, including potatoes, and having spent many of my earlier years as an agricultural worker, including many wet and frosty days on the potato field, I would like to make a very brief contribution to this debate.

Like the other Members of the House I welcome the Bill, which is important as far as it goes. It covers growers and packers. this is an important aspect in the whole area of potato marketing. But I also feel that merchants should be directly covered in the Bill because potatoes are very perishable. For example, if they are not stored properly they can deteriorate. If they are left without proper protection on a frosty night or frosty morning they can be seriously damaged. This is not covered specifically in the Bill. That is a mistake.

It would also be important if we could determine the exact acreage of potatoes each year, because this would bring about a situation where the market would become stabilised whereas up to now we have had some years of shortage and other years of surplus, where potatoes were either very dear or very cheap. There should have been included in the Bill a method to determine the acreage. The Bill does not go far enough in other directions, some of which have been covered. For example, horticulture could have been included. Some years ago a local man in our town started to sell vegetables. He had a small area of land and he found it easier and cheaper to go up to the Dublin market and buy his vegetables rather than to work his piece of land. There is something wrong in this area. I realise that in later years a number of people seem to have made a successful career of market gardening, but financial adjustments of some kind in the way of grants would be well worthwhile and could be well justified from the point of view of savings to the country. This is an area which could be taken in under adult education, because there are many small gardens and many plots of land throughout the country left idle.

A friend of mine a couple of years ago grew potatoes and cabbage on his small farm. He took two loads of the cabbage to the Dublin market and he could not sell it. He had to bring it back and dump it. It was a tragic situation that because of imports this man was unable to sell his first-class vegetables.

The Minister has referred to imports of potatoes — £25 million worth of potato products in 1982; in 1983, £17 million and £27 million this year. In a country where the potato over a long time has meant so much and where it is so easily grown, this is an indefensible situation.

The growing of potatoes must at all times be commercially attractive. People allegedly became wealthy through growing potatoes. We do not hear of the many people who lost quite large amounts over the years. Potato growing should be done on a scientific basis. There could have been included in the Bill, provisions in respect of the proper crops to suit our climate and the proper crops for the various areas of the country. I could list a whole range of potatoes which I have known over the years. Harvesting and storage are most important and could have been included in the Bill.

The primary purpose of the Bill is to improve the quality of the domestic supplies of potatoes reaching the market. Like the other Members, I welcome the Bill.

The consumer will probably benefit more than anybody else from this Bill. Up to now the consumer has been suffering as a result of inferior products, both domestic and imported. The housewife particularly will welcome the fact that there is some order being put into the area of producing and packaging potatoes in Ireland. Although the merchants, as Senator Fitzsimons said, are not included as such, the process of registration and control of the grower and the packager will be a protection in respect of the merchant. Certainly the consumer will be the final tie up in the final situation. It is totally unaceptable for an agricultural country that we have an imports bill of £27 million for potatoes. This is a national disgrace. The potato can be effectively produced in this country and there is a market for it. The total figure of about £800 million of food imports probably includes many things that we could not possibly produce ourselves. The facts will be known shortly because ACOT have undertaken the production of statistics of what can be produced in this country. I commend ACOT for their efforts in doing that. The sooner that is done by ACOT the better the industry will be able to face the problem that they have of ensuring that our land is used to maximum benefit for potato production. There is a market there for it. I commend the Minister for at least putting some order into the situation. At the moment potato production is so haphazard that it is a disgrace and allowed of major imports.

This is a good Bill. When it is in operation we may see some defects and anomalies. I am sure the Minister will keep his mind open in this regard. The Bill is a major breakthrough and I welcome it.

I would like to thank Senators for their worthwhile contributions. They were all of a positive nature. One point I would like to make is that maybe people were expecting more of the Bill but we are really registering growers because under the 1977 Food Standards Act which my predecessor, Mr. Gibbons, introduced in 1977, we have gone well into detail with regard to the actual standards required that the potato should be whole, clean, sound and unsprouted and within certain grades. In practice, it is spelt out quite clearly. In the case of pre-packs it has to be between 20 and 60 millimetres, in the medium package it has to be between 60 and 80 and in the large it has to be 80 plus. In the 25 kilogram you are allowed to mix one and two, that is, between 40 and 80. The rules are there but the difficulty has been to pin down the people and that is what this Bill is all about: to be able to trace the source, the culprits.

I agree with Senator Ferris when he says that the consumer will benefit. The consumer, for the first time, will be given a real choice of a first class home grown product.

Senator Hussey made particular reference to the fact that we do have — of course we have — the best quality potatoes in the world but the problem is that we slipped up badly in our preparation and, indeed, our presentation of potatoes.

I agree with all speakers who did make the point that we will have to look at higher yielding varieties, varieties that look and hold well. I think the housewife is switching from potatoes that have been traditionally very good varieties like Kerr's Pinks and is looking towards Pentlands that look a lot better on the shelf. Already, by talking about the quality and so on quite a lot of supermarkets and, indeed, people in the trade generally have come to adapt themselves to what will be fairly stringent regulations. Here in Dublin it is quite obvious that our presentation has improved considerably, to the extent that there are some supermarkets where you can pick your own potatoes from trays.

Referring to Senators Ferris' contribution again, yes of course any defects that will emerge can be put right by way of regulation. So, that should not cause any problem. Senator Fitzsimons was worried about the merchant not being covered. Not directly, but they are in fact covered and they are very annoyed at the sort of coverage we are giving them. There are quite a few of these people around who buy from a packer and hand on to another packer and as the Senator rightly pointed out, the potatoes could be left on the lorry over the weekend where they would deteriorate. Merchants handling potatoes in future will have to put their own name and address on each bag. So merchants will have responsibility under the legislation.

Just a few final points: yes, the demand has come from growers and people in the business, and I refer specifically to the solid people in the business, not people who move in and out and who cause a lot of the problems. It will bring order where chaos prevailed and now we have the IFA about to set up their co-operatives in conjunction with ICOS. I believe already they are about to make some arrangements with the Sugar Company to take over some storage facilities in Erin Foods in Carlow where a lot of this packaging work will be done. It is quite obvious that they are going about their business in a very businesslike way indeed. I think the prospects are good. The weakness is that we do not have adequate storage, and we will need all the help we can get, in the short term in particular from people in ACOT and people with a knowledge of storage to make the best use we can of our existing storage facilities. It is in March and April that we will have the problem from Dutch imports when our own potatoes are deteriorating, and a word of warning from me at this stage would be for farmers to try to get their crops even into open sheds and keep a close eye on sprouting on so on. It will certainly help later in the season. There is no need for panic selling. The year is long and, indeed, there will be a lot of potatoes needed between now and next June when the early ones come on the market.

I would again thank Senators for their contributions.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
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