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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Feb 1985

Vol. 107 No. 3

Joint Committee on Marriage Breakdown: Motion

I move:

That the period for reporting back of the Joint Committee on Marriage Breakdown be extended to 21 March 1985.

I make this request in the full knowledge of agreement reached between all the participating members of the committee that this date will be one that can be met. The committee ran into difficulties because of the inclement weather which prevented us from meeting on a number of occasions, and also we were unfortunate that Dáil business — the budget — clashed with meetings which we had arranged. This threw our work somewhat out of the time schedule which we had set. We have done an enormous amount of work, the main body of which has been concluded. We are in the process of finalishing our second draft. Also we have one chapter left to consider, that is the dissolution of marriage. We have prepared working papers on which we intend to proceed, meeting for five hours at least next week. We are very confident when we state that we merely wish to extend our date for reporting by a very small number of days. We will report on 21 March. I am asking that that be acceded to.

I second the motion. I apologise to the House for being a few moments late. We understand the committee's dilemma about trying to report in time. I want to thank the House for allowing us to submit this supplementary Order Paper. It is not an unreasonable request. It is just something less than a month. Because of the sitting days of the Seanad we want to have the matter regularised before next Tuesday.

On this side of the House we have no objection to this extension.

I take it that it is agreed to?

First of all, I enormously resent the way this has been sprung on the House. It is an extremely important matter and it is put before us at the very last minute, without notice. It is not on the original Order Paper. I had very little idea about it. It has just been sprung on me. It is a very, very important matter for the House and it has been brought in at 8 p.m. I do not know at what stage the committee knew they were going to be looking for an extension. I do not know if they knew this three weeks ago. I certainly oppose, in principle and in fact, that this committee should be given one more hour to sit. From memory, and because I had no time to prepare this matter, this is the third extension which this committee have looked for.

I remember the Leader of this House, Senator Dooge, saying in July 1984, when the first extension was looked for, that he would oppose a second extension. A second extension was granted by this House in December 1984 for three months with the assurances that they had had a lot of work to do but that they would report on 19 February. The committee have the nerve to come back to us again to ask us for another extension. We hear that there is one chapter still to write and that chapter is on divorce, on the dissolution of marriage.

Let there be no doubt in this House why this committee was set up. This committee was set up specifically to deal with the dissolution of marriage. All other matters could be dealt with by the Government and that is what the Government are for. The committee come back to us at this time saying they have not even considered this matter properly. They have the audacity to ask us for another three weeks. No, Sir, I do not believe for a moment they should. Issues like this are for Government to consider. I said, and I was the only person in this House who said it the day this committee was set up, when every single member of the political parties were congratulating themselves on the setting up of this committee, that it was a bogus committee, that Members would not agree and that they would be looking for an extension. I was assured nearly two years ago that this was not true. Yet, they came back in June 1984, December 1984 and they come back to us in February 1985 and ask for another extension. There is no point in going through this bogus procedure. I will be very interested to see what conclusions they come to on the vital issue of the dissolution of marriage, which they have not even considered at this stage, two years after the Government have taken power. I shall oppose this and I shall be looking for a division on it.

I do not want to address collective remarks to the entirety of the committee, because it is quite obvious to me from attendance at a number of public sessions of the committee and from various other conclusions that I have drawn that there are many people on this committee who have done enormous amounts of work. What is becoming obvious to me — and this is a good week in which to talk about it — is that we are not the masters of our own house in this Parliament, that there is a substantial number of people in this House who not only are prepared to accept but want guidance from 15 miles down the road as to how they should act on a number of issues and who are prepared to stand up and salute and say: "Yes, sir", even if they must stand on their heads in the process. I would suggest that there are members of this committee who should actually resign their seats and offer them to gentlemen in robes——

Senator Ryan, you should address yourself solely to whether the committee should get time or not.

If I am to address myself to whether this committee should get time or not I have to address myself to why I think the committee needs an extension.

You should address yourself solely to the committee's extension.

I thought I was.

I do not think you are.

It does appear to me that the problem that is confronting this committee is not a problem of whether they are in favour of or against the legal dissolution of marriage in this State. The problem is whether other people to whom they give allegiance, politically as well as religiously, are in favour of the dissolution of marriage. It seems to me that this committee will go on and on avoiding the issue until such time as they conclude that they cannot take a decision because their Lordships elsewhere have concluded that there is nothing to be done. Because I think the issue is no longer a political issue, because I think the issue is no longer a question of an intelligent, dispassionate analysis, but is an issue of who runs this country, as manifestly——

Wait, Senator, I will ask you to resume your seat.

I am opposed to the extension.

It is a very confined subject. You must talk solely about the extension of time for the committee. If you want to continue, all right.

I believe this is a very important committee. I also believe that the members are very hard working. I think it would be wrong to try to break the deadline to the detriment of the report. In the interest of a full and proper and complete report we should accede to this request.

Is the motion agreed?

Is it possible to amend this motion, a Chathaoirligh?

Is it needed in writing?

You have already spoken.

I was asking, on a point of order, can I put down an amendment?

It is possible to amend a motion but you did not suggest that in your speech, so it is not possible at this stage.

It is not possible at this stage? At what stage would it have been possible?

In your speech, if you had conveyed it.

All right, I accept that.

Is the motion agreed?

The question is: "That the motion be agreed."

Votáil.

Will those who are demanding a division please rise?

Senator Ross rose.

Were there other Members?

Deputy Ryan, but he has left.

Question put and declared carried with Senator Ross dissenting.
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