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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 Dec 1985

Vol. 110 No. 8

White Paper on Tourism Policy: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Seanad Éireann takes note of the White Paper on Tourism Policy."
—(Senator Dooge.)

When I moved the adjournment of this debate I was referring to the vast untapped tourist potential of the West of Ireland and about the need for a very positive selling programme. I instanced as an example of the untapped potential an area like my own native area which is typical of the west. This is an area which has got something like 110 lakes within a ten-mile radius teeming with coarse fish waiting to be caught. I referred to the failure at national level to positively sell the west as a haven for tourists, fishermen and anglers.

The days of tourists sitting in a coach for four hours on relatively bumpy roads in order to get to the west has long since passed. I called on the Government and the various agencies and Departments to open up the potential of the west. I would like to see some imaginative move taken in relation to the possibility of air lifting people by way of short hops from Dublin Airport etc from their continental destinations right into the heart of rural Ireland.

I can think of no more apt destination on which to land them than the recently completed Connacht Regional Airport. While it is something which has been treated with a lot of scepticism and derision by a lot of west and east coast politicians, I would say that the project from a tourist viewpoint has a lot to commend it. When one considers its strategic location in relation to the west and western tourism, one will see that it is located 40 miles from Westport, 40 miles from Galway, 40 miles from Sligo, 40 miles from Carrick-on-Shannon and 50 miles from Athlone. It is, in fact, very centrally located as regards the strategic outposts of the west. The figures for 1984, published recently by Ireland West, show that £94.6 million was derived by way of revenue from tourist earnings. Of this, £50.8 million comes by way of revenue from foreign tourists. Looking at the breakdown, Galway got £31.2 million, whereas Mayo got £19.6 million. To break the statistics down further into relevant per capita statistics, Galway got 293,000 tourists, whereas Mayo got 139,000. Again, I cannot emphasise enough the need and, if you like, the obligation and the right of the west of Ireland to expect, that it would be opened up from the point of view of its tourist potential.

The predictions for next year are good and we have got to harness them, but I was reading recently a statement made by Dr. Pierce Ryan, Director of the Agricultural Institute. He states that Ireland would soon have two groups of farmers polarised. On the one hand, you will have first country farmers and, on the other hand, you will have Third World farmers.

What he is saying is that within the next decade a pattern will develop whereby we will have 50,000 farmers in Ireland who will meet the commercial challenge and the commercial criteria and, therefore, the social fabric of rural Ireland will collapse.

This has already been recognised in a Green Paper published by the European Economic Community which states that these people who are part and parcel of the social population fabric of rural Ireland will have to be looked after by use of the "dole", if I may use such a word, if they are to be kept on the land. Until such time as we are in a position to provide them with jobs, with alternative methods of looking after themselves, with some form of off-farm employment, then we will have to recognise the fact that these people have a right to be there and will have to be subsidised in order to stay on their holdings. Those farmers, who in marginal areas cannot meet the economic criteria and challenges of the next decade, will be driven into further part-time farming.

I would like to see the Government devise a plan to recognise this reality. If a plan is being developed it will have to be an integrated plan which will approach the whole business of the balances and the mechanisms and the components which make up the economic fabric of rural Ireland, the development of an integrated plan and an integrated approach based on sheep farming, cattle farming, forestry, tourism and small industries.

I would like to commend the Department of Labour for the manner in which they are publicising and launching their community enterprise programme. I have no doubt that areas in rural Ireland in particular have the necessary confidence and dynamism to take up the challenge and the offer. Indeed, we have seen areas in rural Ireland in the past respond very positively by way of festivals and so on based on their tourist potential. Therefore, I am hopeful that when these small towns in rural Ireland get plugged into the community enterprise programme — the point I raised initially — the transport problem as regards getting people into the locations will be positively met.

I welcome the fact that Bord Fáilte have embarked on an approach with regard to the enhancement of the environment. As I said previously, we have a litter epidemic in Ireland and it is a sad indictment on the relative efficacy of our civics programmes in post primary schools. We have manifestly failed to get across to both the older and younger generations the absolute need and the absolute necessity to have a tidy rural and urban community. The dumping of cars on roadsides, the prevalance of litter, the pollution which is rampant in areas and largely uncontrolled. I raised the point previously of the wisdom of putting local authorities in charge of pollution control in view of the fact that it has been proved time and time again that very often the worst offenders in this are are the local authorities themselves. It is very hard to expect the policeman to do his job adequately when he himself is an offender.

I want to say that the White Paper and the report we have here are very analytical. This raises a point that I have often referred to in this House and that is the vast potential there is in relation to the twinning programmes that have been undertaken by various communities. Numerous towns throughout the length and breadth of rural Ireland have twinned with their counterparts on the European mainland. There is an enormous tourist potential here and it is one that should be nurtured, promoted and encouraged.

There is another aspect of twinning that should be addressed. Four weeks ago we signed the Anglo-Irish accord with Britain. One of the guarantees we have been giving in the intervening four weeks to the majority community of the North is that we have no particular designs on their preserves, that we do not in any way wish to threaten them, that we do not wish in any way to endanger their cultural traditions or their beliefs or backgrounds or history. We have stressed the need to bring together the many and diverse strands that go to make up the Northern Ireland situation. We have committed ourselves in this House and in the other House to extend the hand of friendship across the Border. I can think of no more opportune modus operandi that could effectively be brought in here than chambers of commerce, community organisations, junior chambers, ICA, rural and urban organisations twinning with their Northern counterparts. If we can do this successfully, hopefully we will help to break down the innate suspicions that are there in relation to our designs and our motivations. Organisations which have already taken the initiative in relation to twinning with continental counterparts could usefully now apply themselves to a tripartite twinning and that is by twinning and offering the hand of friendship to various communities in Northern Ireland.

One of the problems addressed in the report is the ever-present problem of dealing with the seasonal nature of tourism and the fact that for the greater part of the year many of the facilities are not used at all or are under-utilised. I like the idea promoted in the report of offering in particular to the elderly the facilities during the off season at a reduced rate. It is something that is to be commended and encouraged.

I would like to finish, as I began, by saying that we are sitting on something that is an enormous reservoir from the point of view of tourist earnings. We have, however, to become competitive. We have to break down the idea that is now very prevalent that Ireland is a dear and expensive tourist destination. We have to be competitive. We have to tidy ourselves up. We have to sell ourselves abroad and, hopefully, when we come to debate a tourist report in the future, we will be able to monitor and record success in those areas.

I welcome the report of the joint committee and, indeed, the White Paper, but I must say that the White Paper does not give much hope that the action that should be taken in the area of tourism will be taken. It is a very slim document indeed, when one considers the overwhelming wish that a proper White Paper should be produced which would make a comprehensive study of the problems associated with tourism and show the direction in which tourism should go for the next few years. In tourism circles, both at official level and at consumer level and, indeed, at every level throughout the country, this report was awaited with great anticipation and hope; but I am afraid that the hopes and anticipations will not be satisfied by this White Paper. There is not an acknowledgment at Government level at this stage of the huge part tourism plays in Irish life. It does not seem to be acknowledged that it is the third biggest earner that we have in terms of earnings, that it is only behind industry and agriculture as a generator of foreign export earnings. There will be a sense of disappointment throughout the tourist industry when this report or White Paper is circulated fully. The joint committee's report shows how little the Government think about tourism. The State support structure for Industry, Agriculture and Tourism is summarised in the following table:

Departmental Responsibility

Departmental Structure

State Agency and Staff

State Funding

Annual Exports 1983

Industry

Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism

Two Divisions each headed by an Asst. Sec. (Staff of 69)

15 Agencies(4,500 Staff)

£745m.(1983)

£5,400m.

Agriculture

Agriculture

Entire Dept. (Staff 5,000)

2 Agencies(2,400 Staff)

£255m.(1984)

£1,465m.

Tourism

Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism

One branch headed by a Principal Officer (Staff of 9)

Bord Fáilte + 7 Regional Tourism Organisations(491 Staff)

£28m.*

£524m.

*Includes Tourism Allocation of £1m. for EEC Border Area Programmes and SFADCo Tourism allocation of £2m.

That table shows that, in relation to the export value of this industry, the State is not doing its job in promoting an industry which has enormous potential and which is of enormous value to Ireland. In the last available figures tourism was worth approximately £1,000 million, with a job value of about £70,000 as between part time and full time employment. Possibly the £70,000 would be an underestimation, with a wealth-creating situation of 7 per cent of our gross national product. When one looks at what the Government are doing in terms of this potentially fabulous industry there is only an allocation of 3 per cent on tourism, whereas there is 44 per cent spent on agriculture and 26 per cent on manufacturing industry. Again, this is an indication of the Government ignoring the value in employment and export potential of this industry.

The White Paper does not address itself to the solution of the problems, but there is a long, dreary litany of the problems and difficulties associated with the industry. This is not going to do very much for anybody. Everybody knows the problems that are in the industry. It would have been expected that the White Paper would address itself to the solution of these problems. There is no real acknowledgement of the achievements of this industry in the White Paper, even though the industry is undercapitalised and undersupported by the State. I do not see why the White Paper should not have addressed itself to giving a little bit of praise where praise is necessary, although there is absolutely no doubt but that the problems associated with the industry should be stated.

This document gives an indication of the Government's constant whingeing about the situation in Ireland. There is a whining attitude in it. There is preaching on negative financial rectitude and problems, whereas what the tourism industry and we in Ireland need is a dynamic effort to restore and build up this industry into what it should be. The Government have a major responsibility to assist this industry. They should not fob off their responsibilities on to the private sector. The private sector has a part to play but, unfortunately, the Government play a major part in what happens in the private sector because of taxation regimes. These regimes play a major part in our noncompetitive situation vis-a-vis other countries engaged in tourism. The role of Government should not be underestimated. We should work actively so that all the elements which make up tourism should be supported from the access point of view, the promotional point of view and the environmental point of view. We should aim to provide adequate accommodation at a reasonable cost.

Tourism has performed reasonably well in Ireland over the past number of years, but in real terms there has been a decline. Much of the decline in foreign tourism has been because of the high cost of access into Ireland. This is something that has to be addressed. Whether or not the cartel of IATA is responsible for this problem, I do not know; but it would seem that we might be better off if we were not members of the International Air Transport Association. It seems to many people that that body is a body which does not serve the interests of a small country like Ireland. IATA has created problems for our airlines in providing access to Ireland. It has been controlled by countries which have huge populations with large airlines with great numbers of people travelling internally and externally. I am sorry that the Government and Aer Lingus are continually trying to fob us off with the idea that we are being protected by IATA, whereas I think they have done untold damage to Ireland in their pricing policy, which is not suitable to a small airline like Aer Lingus.

The potential of tourism is growing. People feel that they have to travel. We have much to offer in Ireland. The attractions are not very well recognised at times. Too many people say we do not have sun. We are not able to compete with places like Spain, Portugal, Morocco, Tunisia or the South of France. We do not have to compete with those places. We have a unique tourism package which we can offer to people from outside Ireland. We do not sell this package well enough abroad. We do not highlight our ancient monuments as tourist attractions. We do not advertise the beauty of the countryside. Sometimes we concentrate too much on riding, hunting, shooting and fishing areas. There are not very many people who are interested in riding, hunting, shooting and fishing, even though they do make up a small part of what would be a tourism package. Sometimes when tourists come to Ireland and try to fish our rivers, they find that they are not allowed fish in the rivers because somebody has the fishing rights. They find that the hunt is closed to outsiders. They find that they cannot buy fish at a seaport. Much of what is being sent out as information is a PR man's conception of what happens in Ireland. Sometimes these concepts are not the best.

Even though we are having bad times at present, we have had a reasonably good performance by the tourism industry. It is at this stage, when we have just finished the high points in our tourism year, that we should be having a look at the past season. What was very noticeable in the past season was that the seaside resorts which were looking after home tourism had a very bad year. There were a number of reasons for this. First, the weather was not good. Second, the economy is in recession. Third, the cost of hotels and guesthouses is too high. The cost of going on holidays has increased too much. There has been an increase in tourism in areas which are not considered to be holiday resorts. Towns and cities inland and places of architectural interest have had a very good year. The amount of foreign tourism generated in the past 12 months was very good. Areas of architectural interest must be highlighted more than has been the case up to now.

Import tourism is mentioned in the report and a peculiar observation is made. The White Paper on Tourism says in chapter 5, page 20:

there is little justification for allocating additional marketing resources to persuade Irish people to switch from foreign to domestic holidays.

I think that is an amazing statement to have in a White Paper on Tourism. The report continues:

At the same time it is felt that Bord Fáilte should try to develop new ways of encouraging domestic holidays among Irish people aimed at particular niches in the market where substitution could be achieved.

The two statements I have mentioned in my opinion do not add up. Again it says:

This approach has been well targeted having regard to the age and geographical distribution of the population and the order of consumerable expenditure available. In general it would appear that some considerable progress could be made in selling Irish holidays to Irish people if there were to be particular concentration on the provision of sports activities as part of a holiday.

Why put in the very negative statement in the first place and then come along and say: "If you put resources into sport you might have gains"? There is absolutely no doubt that there is huge potential in providing good sports facilities. The unfortunate part about it is that the Government will not support private companies who want to set up sports facilities. Ninety per cent of the sports facilities in this country have been provided by bodies such as the GAA who have created an enormous potential for tourism throughout the country. It is very rarely that one sees Gaelic sports being adverted to when people are being asked to come to this country on a tourism package. We have unique games. Why not publicise them rather than publicise the Triple Crown, which is a useful exercise, but who is interested in the Triple Crown? Who is interested in American rugby? Very few people are interested. We have enormous potential in sport through spreading the gospel of the GAA and other sports as well, but the GAA in particular must be given a bigger part in promotional material.

The recent reduction in the VAT rate from 23 per cent to 10 per cent on hotel accommodation, caravans and boat and car hire was very welcome and has made a difference in certain areas of tourism. If the real benefit of that reduction is to be seen in an increased number of tourists there would have to be an assurance that all of those reductions are passed on to the customers.

There is an urgent need to address the problems associated with the coach business. The coach tour sector is a potentially big sector of tourism. In other countries it plays an enormous part. Here there are inhibitions due to a combination of VAT and excise duties. The problems associated with the high costs to coach tour operators must be addressed. Reasonable rates of taxation should be applied to this sector. We must have a look at some means of giving coach tour operators relief in taxation which would make them more competitive within the market place. Equally, it would allow them to provide the type of coach that is necessary in this modern age. There is no doubt that a further reduction in the VAT rate on hotel and restaurant food would have enormous effects on our tourism potential. If the 23 per cent rate on food in hotels and restaurants were reduced to 10 per cent the industry would gain enormously. It would stimulate demand and restore confidence, which is in many cases at a low ebb.

The targets set out in the White Paper are realistic but they are only realistic if we keep control on our costs. The costs within the industry are costs which are Government controlled. Why should the tourism industry not be taxed at the same 10 per cent rate as manufacturing industry, since so much of its product is an export product? Why should somebody in the hotel, catering and tourism industry have to pay penal rates of tax on his profits, if he generates profits, whereas somebody down the road who employs very few people and who has a big capital investment but gives very little employment has to pay only 10 per cent on his profits? Yet the others are paying 50 per cent in general terms. There would be an enormous increase in the potential for tourism if we could have this 10 per cent rate of tax for the export part of tourism. It should not be a very highly technical problem to resolve, when so many of the tours that come in are booked from abroad. It would be very easy for anybody within the tourism business to divide the export part of his business from the local part.

Over the past number of years there has been an increased acknowledgement that the protection of our environment is of major importance if we are to keep our tourist industry going, both our export tourism and our internal tourism. There has been a welcome change in the attitude of Government, local authorities and public bodies in this area. Indeed, a harmonious relationship has to be built up between the local authority, central government, regional tourism organisations, Bord Fáilte and everybody involved in the tourism business in order that the full potential of this country is realised. Problems have been created recently because of the new procedures regarding the financing of joint projects. Unfortunately, because of this change the regional tourism organisations and the local authorities can no longer cooperate as productively as before.

Turning to my own city for a moment, Kilkenny shows the degree of co-operation there has been between the various elements that make up the tourism industry, with regard to Kilkenny Castle, there was great co-operation between the Office of Public Works, Kilkenny Corporation and South-East Regional Tourism Organisation, which has increased the tourism potential of Kilkenny to an enormous degree. Such an increase would not have occurred were it not for the relationship there was between the various organisations involved. We have the glorious reconstruction of Rothe House and the Shee Alms House in Kilkenny. There was co-operation between the corporation, South-East Regional Tourism, Kilkenny Archaeological Society and the Office of Public Works. This shows that, if there is co-operation, there can be a very happy outcome.

We must ensure that joint ventures which are entered into by the various local bodies have the same aid from central funds as they had in the past. Dunmore Caves in Kilkenny is now a place of national tourism importance. The site was developed with the co-operation of the county council, the Office of Public works and South-East Regional Tourism Board. The thread going through this whole development is that the South-East Regional Tourism Board has been one of the key factors within the framework. There is a suggestion that the regional tourism boards are not fulfilling their function and that they should be reorganised. Generally speaking, when talking about reorganisation many people are really talking about doing away with certain regional tourism organisations. We should be strengthening the local input. We should be strengthening the regional tourism organisations. We should make certain that the control of tourism at local level is maintained, that Bord Fáilte should have a supervisory role and that the policy which is coming from local level should be examined by Bord Fáilte. After that the regional tourism organisations should make the decisions on the ground. In that way we would have a better tourism industry.

The Tidy Towns Competition has been an enormous success, not alone in the sense of cleaning up some of the litter that we have around the country and cleaning up the dirty image that this country has had, but it has also given a sense of pride to many places. Kilkenny is a reasonable small city but reasonably big in comparison with other Irish urban centres. Kilkenny won the Tidy Towns Competition. It won because there was maximum co-operation between local authorities, the regional tourism board and the people in Kilkenny. When co-operation such as that exists one can do enormous things to highlight the town or city or village one lives in. It does not take a lot of money, but it takes a lot of effort and co-ordination.

We must address ourselves at all times to the cleaning up of the countryside. Shopkeepers should clean the pathways outside their places of business every evening. In other countries they are forced to do it. It only takes three or four minutes for one to go out with a brush but certain people do not like being seen with a brush in their hands outside in the street. It should be done. While I am speaking about people with brushes, I would like to congratulate the people throughout the country who work on the outdoor staffs of local authorities. They go out in all weathers and have definitely improved the environment by keeping places reasonably litter free.

There are a number of other things that could be done to make our environment pleasanter. Signposting is a huge problem in this country. It would not cost very much to extend a proper system of signposting. Less than £½ million is spent on signposting each year. They can be informative and useful.

Something should be done about the level of VAT and excise duties on coach tours. This would show that the Government are interested in aiding the tourism industry to a greater degree than they are at present. There is an area of special importance that I have mentioned. The wealth of cultural activities that go on in this country are not addressed to a great degree in the report. The responsibility for festivals and entertainment is now the responsibility of the Arts Council. This is an unsatisfactory means of assisting the tourism industry. Sometimes the Arts Council do not address themselves to culture in terms of Irish culture. It seems at times that they are more interested in addressing themselves to cultural matters which are not by nature Irish and to a degree that at times would seem irresponsible. The approach of the Arts Council to the activities of Comhaltas and other Irish cultural institutions has been most unsatisfactory.

When we speak about the tourism industry basically what we are speaking about is a very simple matter. We are speaking about people going out to enjoy themselves, sometimes in a structured way, sometimes in an unstructured way. We can oversell the structured part of tourism. We should address ourselves more to the unstructured. We do not encourage the "back-packers" in Ireland. We do not encourage the "bikers", or the young people, to travel. We do not encourage them because we do not provide places for them to stay at reasonable cost. We do not provide campsites. There are so many things we do not provide for them. This is something which one sees a lot of in other countries but one does not see it in Ireland. Entertainment grants to Bord Fáilte and to the regional tourism organisations must be restored. If I seem to be gloomy, it is because the White Paper has given the impression of gloom. Despite the gloom, the recent grants that have been suggested for hotel and guesthouses reconstruction represent a welcome development. Hopefully, they will play a part in refurbishing many of the hotels and guesthouses around the country which because of the recession have been run down to a certain degree.

The incentives are not enough. We must try to increase the incentives in the tourist area and address ourselves to the area of unapproved accommodation. In many cases unapproved accommodation is very good accommodation but, nevertheless, it is like every other area in the black economy. It is not something we should approve of under any circumstances. We must bring these people into the ambit of organisation. If we do not do so, there is no protection for the tourist and for the people who are genuinely in the tourism business providing a service. There must be a look at the places where seasonality is a major problem, for example, Bundoran, Salthill, Tramore, Rosslare and Courtown. Seasonality is a problem for these areas.

There are not enough proposals in the White Paper to get business for the small resort hotels. No effort has been made to sell the small hotel or to provide in the resort the type of all-year-round entertainment that is needed. There has been an impression given that just because a place is at the seaside the only thing it has to offer is a beach and hurdy gurdies. This is not true. Ninety per cent of these small towns and villages on our coasts have features which can be enjoyed by the population all the year round. I would ask Bord Fáilte and the Regional Tourism Organisations to address themselves to that.

We must address ourselves to the problems concerning access transport. An attempt should be made to see that such transportation into Ireland is at a competitive rate. We must express concern about the Irish Continental Line and inquire about their plans. What Government support will be given to them? We must address ourselves to the problems of Sealink and the B & I. We must be reassured that rationalisation will not lead to a cartel in which the tourist will pay a higher price for his access through Irish ports. We must look at places like Rosslare, Cork and Dún Laoghaire in order to give a good image to the tourists coming in. It is not reassuring to look at the areas surrounding our ports of entry.

I wish the White Paper every success. We must look at the initiatives in the White Paper. Equally, we must ask people to study in greater depth the problems associated with this industry and the potential of the industry. We must ask our young people what they see as the needs of this country for this industry.

Sitting suspended at 12.40 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.

Like previous speakers, I welcome these very comprehensive reports which give a detailed analysis of our tourist industry and make a large number of important recommendations. Indeed, the White Paper is the first ever policy document on the Irish tourist industry. For that the Minister and his Department must be complimented.

The tourist and leisure industry is the fastest growth industry in the world and Ireland is ideally suited to tap into this growth. Already tourism plays a vital role in our economy. Estimates for 1984 indicate that overall tourist income amounted to some 7 per cent of our GNP. Furthermore, tourism is one of the most labour intensive sectors of our economy, currently employing over 40,000 people directly, with an additional 40,000 employed in the ancillary services linked to tourism. There is further potential for job creation in this industry and we should maximise every opportunity to develop these jobs. The extra investment would be relatively small as we already have the necessary infrastructure in the nature of hotels, guesthouses and so on. In addition, we have the finest attractions in Europe in our environment, an extensive network of rivers, beautiful lakes, mountains and a coastline which is the envy of all our European neighbours.

As a nation we have obviously failed to take advantage of these great natural attractions and in many instances we have neglected to appreciate or realise the enormous economic benefits which can accrue to the nation. I would like to refer in particular to the environment and highlight the crucial importance of conservation and environmental protection. Reference has been made to this by previous speakers at greath length, so I have no wish to dwell on it for too long. However, it has been emphasised that a clean and pollution free environment is our greatest asset. No effort must be spared to protect the environment. We need a national crusade to impress on our people the importance of conservation and the need to eliminate pollution.

In recent years littering, water pollution, unsightly development and air pollution have all reduced the attractiveness of our environment. The 1982 Litter Act, for example, was never fully enforced and has had very little effect. Water pollution as has been pointed out previously by a few speakers, is becoming a major problem in our country. Again, there seems to be no central body who has control over the levels of pollution. Unsightly development — county councils especially must bear some responsibility for this — besides bad planning over the years has left us with some very unsightly developments in our country. As regards air pollution, it is not yet a problem in our country as it is Northern Europe. Nevertheless when Money-point, for example, comes on stream, along the west coast of Ireland we could face problems that they are facing in places such as Sweden and Germany at the moment. It is very important that all those areas be monitored carefully and that there are firm controls kept to ensure that our environment will be preserved.

The report on tourism policy states:

The environment is of primary importance to the overall tourist produce and for this reason a co-ordinated effort is required to protect and improve the environment, an effort involving voluntary groups, schools, local authorities, and the Department of the Environment is essential.

I must say that many voluntary groups in our country are involved in competitions like the Tidy Towns Competition. These have proved to be a great success, as again has been mentioned. Besides creating respect and an awareness among communities for their own places and their own villages and towns, they give a good appearance to these places for tourists.

Schools could play a very important role in ensuring that our environment is preserved. For example, I see no reason why annual anti-litter campaigns could not be organised within schools, both at primary and secondary levels. VEC's could organise these on a regular basis in their schools. Let us face it, the main source of litter comes from the younger generation. It is very important that we educate our young people to ensure that they realise the damage they are doing to the environment and that they develop an awareness of the importance of keeping their school, home and village or town environments clean and tidy.

Local authorities also have a very important role to play. Because of a number of reasons they have not fully fulfilled their duties to the public in this respect. Local authorities sometimes are inhibited by political interference or other influences. Again this is most unfortunate. If we protect or environment, Ireland has the potential to become the pleasure ground of Europe and become a huge attraction for foreign tourists. Most European countries which are heavily industrialised have enormous pollution problems such as acid rain and so forth, and will seek out Ireland as a haven for a peaceful and healthy holiday.

An attractive environment is also linked to the international trend towards more activity holidays. Tens of thousands of tourists are now coming to Ireland because of its attraction for activity holidays centred around angling, sailing, golf, equestrian or adventure sports. The demand for such holidays will grow in the future particularly with the increased emphasis on healthy living and fitness. I am impressed that Bord Fáilte has been instructed to examine the potential for developing activity package holidays for young people centred around sports such as orienteering, windsurfing, canoeing, water skiing sailing and so forth. There are a number of outdoor pursuit centres in the country and these should provide a focus for such a development.

I am personally aware of Cappanalea, an outdoor activity centre in Killorglin, County Kerry and of the tremendous impact that it has made on young people in Kerry and the country. This centre could have enormous tourist potential if it were properly developed. Up to now it has been neglected except for a grant recently to refurbish some of the equipment there it has not been aided for some time. The manager had to provide classes and instruction with equipment that was worn out from use and which had been there for a number of years. I would like to mention that the Minister for Education recently sanctioned a grant of £7,000 which should help but it does not meet the demand that the community is putting on this centre. We should try to encourage — and I would ask the Minister to comment on this point — outdoor activities around the country especially as they relate to outdoor education and recreation.

I would also like to mention the importance of having decent indoor facilities. For example, Ballybunion, had a disastrous season in 1985, chiefly because of the lack of proper indoor facilities to accommodate those families who arrived in Ballybunion and who because of the bad weather conditions could not use the beach. It was usual to find people booking in and leaving after a few days. If there was a proper leisure centre in Ballybunion this would not happen. Most Senators are probably familiar with the fine golf courses in Ballybunion but unfortunately golf courses cannot cater for every type of tourist. Therefore, I would like the Minister to use his influence and I would appeal to the Department of Labour to co-operate fully with the local development association in Ballybunion in the development of adequate indoor leisure facilities for the future.

I am also very concerned that our greatest tourist losses have been in the British market. The United Kingdom tourist expenditure in the Republic accounted for 26 per cent of all UK expenditure in Europe in 1969. In 1981 this had dropped to 11.5 per cent. This is a very significant drop. The principal factor behind this decline has been, no doubt, the violence connected with Northern Ireland. I am hopeful that after the recent summit and improved relations between Ireland and Britain we will again see a greater flow of English tourist into the country. This matter has already been mentioned by Senators Higgins. Bord Fáilte should now initiate a major marketing drive on the English market, capitalise on the recent developments and build on the fund of goodwill which now obviously exists between our two countries. Other factors, no doubt, that contributed towards the loss of English tourists, whether for the right reasons or not, was the stand that the previous Government took as regards the Falklands crisis which created a lot of ill feeling among English people towards this country. Apart from that, the cost of travel, especially air travel, between London and Dublin is also prohibitive. Aer Lingus should make a greater effort to reduce air fares on the Dublin-London route. For example, air traffic in and out of Aldergrove Airport has increased by 25 per cent since Belfast/London air fares were reduced. Bord Fáilte should learn from that. The fact that since 1975 the number of air tourists from the United Kingdom has dropped from 147,000 to 67,000 whereas there has been an increase of 44,000 sea travellers would indicate that the cost of air travel into the country is a prohibiting factor for English tourists. Aer Lingus should give greater consideration to the overall effectiveness of a reduction in air fares.

I would welcome the restoration of the Swansea/Cork car ferry. This will have special significance for south-west Cork, south Kerry and north Kerry. The Minister will agree with me that since this service was taken off, the south-west has lost out considerably.

I also welcome the fact that charter flights will be coming into Cork Airport in 1986. It is also mentioned in the report that feeder services will be recommended to the main airports from the regional airports. An airport such as Knock could have a major role to play in this instance. I would like the Minister to expand more on the policy in regard to feeder services when he is replying.

Other factors are also important, however, apart from those mentioned above. The holiday market is price sensitive and extremely cost competitive. Our high inflation rates some years ago played havoc with our tourist trade. Our inflation rate has now fallen below in some cases the European average. This should prove a launching pad for a boost in our tourist earnings. As a result we should now become more competitive vis-a-vis our European neighbours. VAT and taxation rates still prohibitive. Unless these are significantly reduced our tourist industry will continue to struggle and this is very evident in the restaurant and hotel diningroom section of the industry. Its growth is being seriously curtailed by the high level of VAT at 23 per cent on meals and this has been identified as the greatest inhibiting factor in preventing buoyancy in this area. I have personal contact with restaurant owners who have gone out of business because of the high VAT rate. The custom of people going out to eat and to dine has been restricted because of the high VAT charges. I support the recommendations in the report that VAT on meals should be reduced 10 per cent. In a recent article on the catering industry published in The Irish Times by Michael Foley, he wrote:

The hotel and catering industry would produce 2,000 new jobs in 1985 with similar annual increases over the next three years at least, according to a Manpower study which was undertaken by CERT, the training agency for the hotel and catering industry, published yesterday. The survey reveals that the industry is one of the country's top employers with 62,666 people employed, including seasonal and casual workers. The total number of full-time workers, the report shows is 46,063.

These figures would indicate that this particular part of the tourist industry needs to be supported as much as possible if we are to continue this high level of employment. There would be far more scope within this area if the level of VAT were reduced.

I have mentioned the English market already and I feel that the American market, which has served us so well recently, is as important. The US market at the moment is a dominant market for tourism in Ireland and the number of North American visitors at 426,000 showed an increase of 24 per cent on 1984. It is estimated that they spent almost £200 million in Ireland. According to a report by Paul Tansey in The Sunday Tribune on 1 December, department stores experienced a boom in consumer spending last summer which was brought about by an increase in domestic demand but augumented greatly by a major higher demand from tourists, the main injection coming from American tourists. While the American dollar remains strong we should continue to mount a strong marketing drive and capitalise on this advantage.

I would also like to welcome the recommendation that a national tourist authority be established which would have a specific job in wealth-creating targets and whose board would be representative of State and other tourist interests. The sooner this is established the better for our tourist industry.

Because I come from a county that depends so much on tourism I should refer to the tourist industry in Kerry at length. Tourism is worth approximately £80 million in County Kerry. It provides employment for 7,000 in the county. These are very substantial figures measured against any other sectors of our economy. It is estimated that in the past few years 3,000 jobs have been lost in Kerry in the tourist sector. This figure in itself is in excess of one-third of the total unemployment figure for the county of Kerry, yet we have heard no protest or outcry at the magnitude of these job losses. If one-tenth of the loss was suffered in industry it would create a national headline and be classed as a disaster. The fact is that tourism has no organised voice, that the employment is spread throughout the county and losses are made up of small numbers in numerous places.

Looking at my own part of Kerry, especially the Shannon Estuary and north Kerry, tourism is worth in the region of £10 million to this part of the county. It must be recognised as a major contributor and a source of great potential considering that, with all the problems, the figures have been reasonably well maintained throughout the past few difficult years. Due to the ever-increasing overheads, including taxes, businesses were forced to economise and to cut back where possible. One of the areas of cutbacks was the level of staff, which is one of the reasons that the tourism industry problems was not highlighted with regular closures. Instead, operators cut back on a gradual basis on their staff levels in order to remain in business. If the right environment was created and with very little incentive these 3,000 jobs lost could be replaced within the existing industry and would create a better tourism environment, give a better level of service and thus a better image for the tourist. It is obvious that some of these cutbacks have meant a reduced service to our visitors and this will inevitably have a damaging effect on customer satisfaction and the PR image of Kerry and Irish tourism, which is a major factor in encouraging repeat and recommended business. Also, a reduction in the level of service can amount to a loss of earnings in reduced spending by visitors.

One of the greatest problems in the market that tourism has suffered in Kerry has been the image of expensive hotels, even though we have a very wide variety of accommodation from caravan and camping and self-catering right up to topclass hotels. In the market-place, where price comparisons are made, it is the hotel which is taken as the yardstick and, therefore, it could be said that the hotel industry is the flagship of Irish tourism. Yet it is penalised more severely than any other sector of the industry with the high taxes, PRSI, and VAT, with one-third of the total price having no bearing whatsoever on the value of services provided by the hotel being made up entirely of tax and service charges.

A substantial reduction in the VAT rate would be of great benefit in bringing the Irish hotels into a competitive position internationally. If the figures were properly analysed in the reduction to 10 per cent in national terms would only mean a concession of a few million pounds. I am certain that this would be offset easily in the increase in turnover given the additional tax revenue and would also pay off handsomely in creating many new jobs in the hotel industry alone thus generating more PRSI and taxes for the Exchequer.

The easiest way forward for creating employment in the north Kerry and Shannon estuary areas is through tourism. This can be done at very little cost im comparison with industrial development. Due to the nature of tourism being spread throughout the area, the small manageable units would be less vulnerable to future economic pressures and would be more likely to survive a recession or other difficulties. The employment and economic base is more even and is of a more permanent nature compared with heavy industry which has a very erratic graph for employment levels attracting a large number of migrant workers during construction periods with a reduced specialised force for operation.

The Shannon estuary has been singled out in Government policy and European Regional policy for large-scale development in the future. I feel that there is just as good potential in the tourist industry if it was properly developed. I hope that the proposed new estuarial authority for the Shannon estuary will take this into consideration and that they will ensure that any industrial expansion that will occur in this area will not damage the obvious potential that the area has for tourists.

In comparing tourism to heavy industry, tourism is practically 100 per cent dependent on home-produced raw materials with a high level of labour added value and the consumer comes to the product rather than having to export the product. Facts show that 80 per cent of food produce used in the tourist industry is home-produced. This is a direct help to the agricultural sector. Our two greatest natural resources are agriculture and tourism particularly in North Kerry. They are the two greatest industries and are complementary to one another. Other sectors that benefit from tourism are the spin-off industries such as crafts, tourism services which enable people to set up their own small businesses without great capital outlay. To develop tourism in the area there is need for a greater awareness of the true value of the industry. Although this report has been criticised at least it will serve as a document for discussion; it can be improved on. I am sure future documents will make greater recommendations. To develop awareness of tourism we need policies like this coming from Government agencies.

There is also a need for full co-operation in national, regional and local effort to develop the product that is suitable for the potential markets. In some areas such as Ballybunion and Ballyheigue local communities have proved what can be done in co-operation with other bodies. Now more than ever there is need for strong and active local organisations, for in the long term development will only come with local initiative working through the regional up to the national organisations. Sometimes small beginnings with local initiatives can grow into a major development for the area. I would like to instance the Festival of Kerry. In an effort to stimulate tourism in Tralee a small committee began 25 years ago by organising a carnival in Tralee and this over the years has been built up to become a major international tourist attraction. The festival attracts millions of tourists to Tralee, establishing the town as a tourist resort in its own right.

This effort should serve as an example for the country as a whole. There is no reason why similar type festivals could not be developed in various areas of Ireland with the kind of initiative that we experienced from this committee which had very meagre beginnings. We must also look at our total environment at local level. We should, and must become proud of our communities and towns. Education has a major role to play in this area. Our young people must be inspired with a sense of pride for their country. A certain amount of patriotism must be instilled into the younger generation. We have some of the finest scenery in the world. There is a large consumer population outside that would accept this if it was sold to them.

Greater effort is needed in the tidy towns competitions where we lag behind in County Kerry. When one compares us to other counties, we drop back enormously. Our record has been dismal in the Tidy Towns Competition. I am aware of various efforts being initiated by Bord Fáilte and the county council in order to lift our ratings among the other counties. One becomes very much aware of this fact when travelling through the countryside in England or the Continent where both small and large towns are very well preserved and presented with neat access roads, attractive gardens and well maintained old buildings. The policy in Ireland has been to destroy old buildings and to demolish buildings that could easily have been repaired. I hope that the new reconstruction grants — although not related to tourism directly — will have some influence in improving the condition of many of our buildings both in the country and in towns and will also encourage people to renovate old buildings. There is a special grant for pre-1940 buildings. It is important that this type of building and architecture will be preserved in our towns and not destroyed for building or construction expediency.

Tourism has to be developed in a naturailway; this would help the environment locally. I am glad that the main philosophy coming through this policy is that we have a rich natural environment which, if it is looked after properly, could generate tourism on its own without any public expenditure. The amenities and facilities provided benefit the local people as well as the visitor. I welcome the recent grants given towards the improvement of facilities in guesthouses and hotels, especially recreational facilities. I suggest to the Minister that these grants should be increased and expanded. They should be within easy reach of the hoteliers and guesthouse owners.

We have already a number of natural products in the estuary area which I referred to which in many countries are at a premium — beaches, water sports, golf, fishing and areas rich in culture and Irish heritage. For example, Ballybunion has one of the top golf courses in the world and now it has a second golf course which I feel will also become a top golf course in the world. Along the Shannon estuary we have numerous beaches which have remained untouched and unspoilt over the years. Fishing has never truly been developed along the Shannon estuary. In fact, we have some of the best salmon grounds in Europe there which have never been exploited to the extent warranted.

There are various archaeological remains and national monuments, places like Lislaughtin Abbey, where the great cross of that name came from; Carrigafoyle castle, Leigh castle and the castle that stands as a centrepiece in Ballybunion itself. These are very hard to find and I would perhaps fault Bord Fáilte for not producing proper guides and information to direct tourists towards these monuments. There has also been a tendency over the years for travellers coming from Shannon and Limerick to take the Adare road and go along that route to Killarney whereas the route via Listowel to Tralee to Killarney has been neglected. Our culture and heritage in general can be preserved and our entertainment and entertainers can derive support from this kind of tourism development.

It has been mentioned by a number of speakers that we have a very fine culture and heritage that we are not utilising properly. It is only when we visit places abroad with very high international reputations that we realise we have comparable features at home for which, in some cases, we have very little respect. Senator Lanigan mentioned this morning that we should sell our national games more effectively. He has a very valid point here. Games like hurling and football should be sold to tourists, especially continental tourists and Americans who enjoy our national games. Sometimes, especially in small villages, games cause a hazard for tourists because of the traffic congestion accompanying them whereas they would be an attraction if tourists knew what was going on. The GAA should advertise their games in the tourist areas during the summer. Bord Fáilte should make use of major games and, indeed, local games which sometimes can provide immense entertainment. This information should be made available to tourists.

In the Kerry context I would like to suggest that with very little help and effort the tourist industry could eliminate the job losses which have been created. This would automatically reduce our unemployment by one-third and the industry would then be set for real growth, providing new jobs. In the short term it would be the quickest and most effective method of solving the unemployment situation and it would further the development of the Shannon estuary. Therefore, with as little help as possible from agencies, tourism without danger of air or land pollution could become a major job-creation factor in the Kerry area.

Coming from an area that depends a lot on the tourist and agriculture industries, I feel that this report must be welcomed because, if nothing else, it has created a debate on the importance of tourism within the country and also an awareness of the potential we have for tourists. We must press ahead towards future development of this industry. We have to tap into the world growth of the tourist industry which by the year 2,000 will be the biggest industry in the world.

I would like to thank the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, for his presence here today. As a Kerryman, I am very proud of the contribution he has made to tourism since he assumed his role. I wish him the best of luck in his efforts and I am sure that the vast experience he has gained from living in a place like Killarney will help him to develop tourism further in the country as a whole.

From Kerry we go to the undiscovered midlands. When it comes to putting a point across, Kerrymen are not alone tops in Ireland but tops in the world. They are to be congratulated for having played their part particularly with regard to the famed Rose of Tralee event and all the other festivities that are going on in Kerry during the festive season. If everywhere else in Ireland contributed as much towards the tourist trade as Kerry does we would be one of the top tourist countries in the world. This is a topic one could discuss all day and still not cover all the different areas involved in it. I hope to make a short contribution with regard to where I see us going wrong and how Bord Fáilte could best serve the neglected lake district of the midlands.

The report is to be welcomed. We on this side of the House may think it did not go far enough but I do not believe there is any politician who ever thought that a report went far enough. It is not necessary to deal at any length with the importance of tourism to the economy and to economic activity. Estimates in 1984 indicate that overall tourist income amounted to some £900 million or 7 per cent of GNP. Export tourism receipts for 1984 were approximately £390 million, which is a 16 per cent increase on 1983 and a 6 per cent increase in real terms.

Tourism is one of the most labour intensive sectors of the economy. It provides jobs employing over 40,000 people directly, but the real number of jobs dependent on tourism is nearer 80,000 to 100,000. When additional employment generated by tourist demand for retail services, entertainment, Irish craft goods, clothing, transport and other services are taken into account, most of the money generated is spent on home products thus creating wealth in the sectors which provide goods and services for which otherwise there would be a lower demand. Tourism is a very significant factor in the economy. International tourism is increasing and based on indications and world trends this increase will definitely continue. It is estimated that between 1974 and 1984 demand for international travel has increased by over 130 per cent. It is expected that this growth will be maintained.

Generally tourism is an expanding market and one in which Ireland, with the right policies, might expect to get a growing share. In this report the committee set out the key issue that need to be confronted if Ireland is to obtain an increasing proportion of the growing market. However, apart from escalating costs, there are many other emerging issues which cannot be ignored if marketing opportunities are to be exploited. It is in this area that I hope to expand a little later on. Tourism ranks after industry and agriculture as Ireland's third largest generator of foreign earnings. The overall tourist product is made up of many components, including accommodation, access transport, international transport, leisure facilities and the standard and maintenance of facilities of all kinds.

The report goes on to say that the committee are very concerned that tourism has not got the priority at official level appropriate to its role in the national economy. This, it says, is manifested in the lack of co-ordination of planning at national level resulting in a lot of individual effort being dissipated, for example, with Bord Fáilte, the Forest and Wildlife Service and the Board of Works. The committee believe that this lack of cohesiveness and awareness of potential for Irish tourism is underlined by the lack of resources allocated.

At this stage I want to make a contribution as someone who has experience in the hotel trade and industry in general. I must give credit where credit is due and compliment the Minister on his recent announcement that he is to provide much-needed finance for the hotel industry. I am only too well aware of the serious difficulties that have faced the hotel industry in recent years. The condition of many of our hotels has deteriorated as a result of declining business and a crippling burden of taxation. However, I must register my dissatisfaction at the amount of grant — £2 million, in a full year — and the very stringent conditions attached to obtaining this grant. According to Bord Fáilte, who will process applications, the number of hotels applying for this grant is so high that the number of grants and the amounts of money which will eventually find its way to the successful applicants are very small. Twenty per cent in every pound is really an appalling figure considering the high cost of building and renovating, while the emphasis on export tourism and the demand for an overall development plan from the hotel applicants, which involves them in incurring very heavy expense, seems very restrictive.

For example, a small family hotel or medium-size establishment whose owner wishes to renovate the front of the premises or repair and decorate rooms that have become shabby would find it practically impossible to be even considered for a grant unless he is prepared to put forward very expensive overall proposals running into many thousands of pounds. I hope that there can be some change or improvement in this situation so that these hotels, when in need of being painted on the outside and decorated on the inside to restore some of their former glory, would have some hope of receiving a grant without having to borrow further from the banks.

I believe Bord Fáilte should put more resources into the development and marketing of smaller type family-run hotels and guesthouses and into self-catering, as these are the trends now in the world of tourism. Bord Fáilte tended to put so much resources into big hotels in the cities. We need now to develop the tourist product all over the country and to the benefit of all.

Our farmers were not the only ones to suffer from the appalling summer. We have all the sympathy in the world for the terrible circumstances they find themselves in due to the bad weather, but our hoteliers and other tourist operators also suffered. Have the Government exploited all the possibilities of EC aid for these people also?

The bad summer also highlighted the urgent need for further development of indoor facilities at our major resorts, and Bord Fáilte should look on this as a priority. The summer gone by gives us the greatest insight into what can happen to a nation when they have not got a good summer. I would like to call on Bord Fáilte to urge the Government and the Minister to bring in some scheme that would encourage people and investors to invest their money in providing facilities for indoor entertainment, if we have a bad summer as we have had this year. A great encouragement would be that all of those facilities would have a reduced rate of VAT. Most of them are not obliged to pay VAT at present. Some of them, unfortunately, have to pay VAT. When you have to pay VAT at the very high rate of 23 per cent on admission charges and when you have running costs and costs of promotion and advertising and everything that goes with a seasonal attraction, then there is little encouragement for any new enterprise. They see lots of their friends and many examples of proprietors not being able to meet the current day-to-day costs of running these establishments.

I call on the Minister to ask the Government to consider all museums and all places of indoor recreation that can give entertainment anywhere to tourists or to people from other places on holidays and to have a serious look at this situation. If VAT continues at the present level there will be very little entertainment left except in the few seaside places in Ireland known for their racing or other entertainment. These basic attractions are family entertainments, that are so badly needed in Ireland today. The only place that most of our young people have to go today is into public houses to play pool.

Or one-armed bandits.

I do not know what it is like in Tipperary.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Cassidy to continue without interruption.

The family type entertainment is in desperate need of help from the Government. That is the type of entertainment that I am talking about. When you consider that 50 per cent of our population are under the age of 25 it underlines all the more how very necessary it is that this form of entertainment would be given priority in the forthcoming budget. I will make a contribution on the licensing end of the tourism industry later.

Bord Fáilte sponsored the Tidy Towns Competition. I believe that it has made a valuable contribution to Irish tourism. I would now suggest that the board should be asked to extend the idea and sponsor a project that would help preserve and develop our natural environment. I am thinking of a schools project to get young people involved in the preservation of our rivers, lakes, our countryside, monuments, clean air. These are the things that attract tourists. If we lose them, we lose everything. That could not be over-emphasised. In particular, what may be overlooked is our clean air. I have no wish to slight anyone who goes into piggeries but we know the type of area which when we pass by we have to turn off the fresh air vents in our cars for half a mile down the road. This type of thing being allowed to happen gives the wrong impression to people who come here to enjoy life. It is supposed to be the be-all and end-all. Our people abroad have to sell it in the most attractive way possible, as we are all very well aware.

I would warn against Ireland becoming a very expensive destination. We should be careful not to price ourselves out of the market. Items such as hotel accommodation, food and drink, petrol, cigarettes etc. are all extremely expensive. We are an island economy on the western sea-board of Europe: our tourists have to pay high fares to get here. Let us ensure we have a good product to offer them and have good value to give them. Tourism is probably the one industry that still offers us prospects of more jobs for our young people for the future.

I welcome the arrival of Delta Airlines and the return of Pan-Am to the Irish scene. I hope that new business will be generated and that new markets for Irish tourism in the southern United States, for example, will be opened up. It is essential that these new carriers bring in new business, not take over the business already being handled by Aer Lingus. In this respect, a fully co-ordinated approach to Irish tourism selling in the United States is more necessary than ever before. I often ask myself are we really serious about the tourist industry when I compare the price of eating out, having a drink and staying in a hotel, with the cost of doing the same in Britain and other European cities.

People point to the troubles in Northern Ireland as one of the main reasons why the tourist industry is suffering. This is a well worn out excuse. The Government should put together a proper plan for the financing of the tourist industry. First of all, I would suggest that VAT on food be reduced substantially. Last year when VAT was reduced on several items, business actually increased and there was a marked improvement for the retail sector. Every businessman knows that if you give an incentive to the customer to buy they will respond.

Another area which the Government should look at is the possible restoration of the business account lunch which would give a tax break to those companies who are good at marketing and wish to impress overseas customers without having to pay the Government tax to do this.

I would now like to move to the licensing laws. It has been suggested in recent months that a change in the licensing laws would entice more tourists to visit this country. I cannot accept that. As the law stands hotels are licensed to provide drink to residents at any time of the day or night. If one is resident in a hotel one can get a drink for 24 hours of the day. Therefore, the argument that there should be more hours in the day for drinking is not valid. This argument does not stand. I have been trying to discover where this move to extend the licensing laws has come from. The vintners, barmen and every responsible organisation, including the ICA, concerned with the abuse of alcohol is against it. We all know that alcohol is the third greatest killer disease this country has. There is not a family in Ireland that drink has not affected in one way of another, it may be a father, mother, brother, sister, husband or wife who has a drink problem. In some cases two members of a family have drink problems. Heartbreak and poverty come from the abuse of drink.

Our young people seem to start drinking at a younger age now. How often does one attend a function at night and see many 16 and 17 year olds drinking pints? What is wrong with the licensing laws at present is that the publican and hotelier must accept the word of the teenager that he or she is old enough to drink alcohol. This is an impossible position in which to place the publicans and hoteliers. I would like to take this opportunity to call on the Minister and the Government to introduce identity cards to all persons under the age of 21 years. This system has worked very successfully in Canada and Germany. I know the publicans and the licensed trade in general would welcome any change that would make their job easier. I have many years experience of attending functions at night and it is for this reason that I recommend identity cards. It is a pleasure to attend functions in Germany and Canada where one does not see the abuse of alcohol. It happens here every night of the week right across the country. Blame cannot be put on the people who are serving drink as it is very difficult to distinguish between a 16 year old and an 18 year old. I know of one scandalous case of an under 16 team which was in a county final and seven members of that team were drunk at 11 o'clock in the morning. This is disgraceful. It is with us as legislators, that the buck stops. We have to do something about this situation.

The impression I get is that a few trendy liberals who seem to have no difficulty in getting much space in Dublin newspapers have decided that their next crusade should be to give licences to various places. I have no doubt that if they fail on this issue, they will come up with another scatterbrained idea. At a more serious level I know that I am speaking for a great many people when I suggest to the Government that they should be very careful in deciding on the issue of extending the licensing laws. The "bone" was thrown around that the licensing laws were to be extended and that there would be extra drinking hours and liquor available more freely than it is at the moment. I do not know what the views of the Government are on the question of extending the licensing laws but before they even consider extending the hours, the first thing that must be done is to put a restriction on teenage drinking. We know of the massive number of extensions that are granted every year. Hundreds of thousands of pounds is going into the Government's funds from all these extensions. A bar extension costs £65 for the stamp and I suppose another £35 goes to the lawyer who makes the application. One thing which is totally ignored is underage drinking. Identity cards could be introduced for, say, 12 months where there are bar extensions to see what change it would bring about.

As I stated earlier on, there is nothing in the countryside today. For example, in a small town with a population of 1,000 the GAA is the backbone of that town in the summer. The youth have nowhere to go in the winter and nothing to do. The only attraction for them is to play pool or darts in public houses unless there is a community centre in that town. In some towns the community centre is only open two or three nights a week. Where can the youth go? They have nowhere. Our youth will have to be protected as we go through these recessionary days and it does not matter who is in Government. The recession is very difficult for our young people because they cannot find employment. As a result of this, they are depressed. We have to protect them and show good example. We have to be seen to be caring for them. It is about time that some restriction was brought in to protect these young people because they are entitled to be protected today as we were when we were growing up. I would urge the Minister and all sides of the House to give this serious consideration because the youth will be the men and women of tomorrow. I know they are as good as we were when growing up and aspire to all the things that we aspired to but we did not have the temptation of drink available to us. This was in the early sixties. It was unsociable and unfashionable for girls to be in public houses. I am delighted that we can all socialise and get together. At this stage I would like to make reference to the Press Gallery which had three members in it when I brought up the subject of drinking. I do not see any of them there now.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Cassidy, I do not think what you have just said is in order and I wish you would get back to item 3 on the clár:

That Seanad Éireann takes note of the White Paper on Tourism Policy.

I have let you off for a while, so can we get back to items 3 and 4 on the clár?

I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make my case. I hope the Minister will bear it in mind. I know the conscientious man he is and perhaps he will take it a stage further.

I went to refer to the development of the area which I represent, that neglected area of Westmeath and I would also add in the beautiful County Meath, the lake district of Cavan — the Lakeland tourism area in general. Parts of that area have been totally neglected by Bord Fáilte. Indeed, at one stage in the last 12 months Bord Fáilte were seriously considering doing away with our midland tourist office. Strong representations were made by many people in the area who have invested enormous sums of money over the years and it has now been decided to leave it with us. Coach tours come from Donegal right down to the south of Ireland, down the west coast, which is beautiful and deserves to be seen; but we think an extra day or two in the itinerary of CIE would not be too much to ask for over a 14 day tour period. We have Doonaree and the Seven Wonders of Fore, the "Garden where the Praties Grow," the lovely town of Kells and the Cross. We have places as good as anywhere else in Ireland, but what we do not seem to have is recognition by Bord Fáilte and by the Government. We are supposed to have everything and anything in the midlands. Apart from all the great land we have, there is a lot of bog from Laois and Offaly into Westmeath. The entire Bog of Alien is there. We definitely need all the tourists we can get. The Government should seek to ensure that the historic settlement of Fore is given greater recognition and publicity. The area has the potential to attract visitors not just from the immediate hinterland of Westmeath and Meath, but from the rest of Ireland and from overseas. The Government, in association with the Midland Regional Tourism Organisation, should provide the facilities required at Fore.

The area also has a role to play in meeting the recreational needs of the people living in the neighbouring areas of Westmeath and Meath. The historical features, the landscapes and the lakes together form an attractive destination for family recreational outings at weekends. In addition, the lakes offer opportunities for water based recreation such as angling and boating. The Government should assist the development of the recreational potential of the area by providing facilities such as car parks, picnic areas and viewing points and by improving access to features and areas of interest. The Government should recognise the importance of conserving the resources upon which tourism and recreation are based so that the Fore area can continue to attract visitors and provide an enjoyable experience for them in the future. Thus in planning for development the suitability of areas for certain recreational activities and not for others will be taken into account, as will the capacity to accommodate numbers of people without damage to the environment.

The Fore area is a beautiful place which you are all very well aware of, or you should be. There are the Seven Wonders of Fore. It is the place where Saint Fehan spent most of his life. The Government should also recognise the necessity of catering for the housing and economic needs of people indigenous to the Fore area, especially those engaged in the tourist industry. New houses and buildings should be required to conform to principles of siting and design in order to achieve their harmonous integration within the landscape. Particular attention should be paid to the prevention of pollution of the waters and lakes by residential and agricultural development. The Government, should encourage development in the villages of Fore and Collinstown in order to strenghten their social and economic role as settlements and to achieve economies in the provision of infrastructural services. The richness of the historical remains at the village of Fore, together with the attractive landscape in which they are set, mark this area out as one of national importance. It should be the intention of the Government to give recognition to their importance, to develop the potential of the area and to ensure that it is given the environmental protection which it requires.

In order to improve access to the individual monuments a historical trail should be established linked to the main road. To do this will require the securing of rights of way — by agreement of course — from the landlords and landowners and the provision of bridges, which are so very necessary across the river. The historic village of Fore and the neighbouring village of Collinstown are set in a beautiful forest part of Westmeath in which there are three lovely lakes, Lough Lein, White Lake and Lough Glore. Our President comes down — on too few occasions, of course — to do a nice bit of fishing on the Glore Lake.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

He goes to Clare, too.

He is the most important person in this country and we are thankful that he comes down and recognises our area of beauty as well as an area of good fishing. I would ask the Minister and Bord Fáilte to have a serious look at the possibility of highlighting Fore. We have hundreds and hundreds of tourists coming there every year. It is badly signposted. The building around it definitely need to be grant-aided and to be restructured in a way that would be fitting to any other picturesque village in Ireland. It has all the ingredients and all the history of a place like Clonmacnoise.

That is the short contribution I want to make on Fore and the place where I come from, north Westmeath I would ask Bord Fáilte to give recognition to the midland areas, areas that are being totally neglected.

I should like to concur with Senator Lanigan and Senator Deenihan and to say that Bord Fáilte should, in a more positive way, play a part in highlighting the fixtures of our national games, hurling and football. They are a great national asset. It is only when you visit far off countries like the United States and Australia that you discover they regard hurling as one the greatest games in the world today. I do not think the top personnel in Bord Fáilte fully grasp the importance of the Gaelic Athletic Association and in the country areas in particular. The weekly papers such as The Westmeath Examiner, The Meath Chronicle and so on could have all the fixtures highlighted. Leaflets could be distributed to the tourist offices publicising our games and traditions and generally informing the tourists what our country has to offer and which cannot be found in other countries.

That brings me to the short contribution I want to make on music. The greatest ambassador this country has is its song and its music. People who have never been to Ireland, particularly people in Germany and in America, admire the music that has come out of Ireland over hundreds of years. Most of the music which is identified as American type country music today is music which came out of Ireland and which was known as hillbilly music years ago.

It is only when one goes out to tap these markets that one realises the richness of our Irish music. Our music has been more or less handed over to the Arts Council to look after. I do not know what the Arts Council have given to other forms of music, classical and so on, but I know they have given nothing to traditional music. Yet this is the music which can be marketed by our groups throughout the world. I refer to the videos which have to be made without any State backing and which are marketed in an independent way in the best interests of Irish groups, and which, in turn, bring in the lovely countryside of Ireland. I do not have to point to the various groups who have made it internationally over the last four or five years in America, Australia, Canada and Germany. This is part of the market that must be tapped.

I do not know what Bord Fáilte, the Minister or the Government intend to do about traditional music. If they do not want to change it from the Arts Council I would suggest to the Minister that one or two people who are experienced in the music industry should be put on that Arts Council. For instance, last year the amount of money generated in the country from music was about £80 million. There is now a situation here where the world's best are coming in to record — and all of that is going to be exported. We all know that the future of our little island here, because we are only an island economy, stands on how we are going to be able to export. We should have some sort of encouragement and we should have training schemes.

It was not until very late last year that the industry was recognised as one with potential for export and for job creation. Irish traditional music has not been tapped at all abroad. Five years ago the Australians were totally unrecognised and were not given any sort of credibility in the world of film making. Australia is now one of the top film making countries in the world. They have the climate to do so and they got the backing of their Government. That is all we need here. We have the hospitality, the dedication, the people talented at arranging and playing. All they need is some sort of incentive and encouragement. They are a race of people who try to run their industries, their businesses and everything they are doing solely financed by themselves. They need to be recognised.

There should be some sort of organised guide in which this type of entertainment would be advertised. These are two or three big commercial enterprises in this country who have started off and are very successful. I am not talking about stage Irish. I am totally against stage Irish. We have gone long past the time of the old films where we saw what was done in the name of Ireland. The living standards in Ireland today are as good as anywhere else in the world, if not better than most. The standards in our universities are so high that we have people coming from all over the world to be educated here. We have to let the people round the world know that we are a very progressive people and that our music is also progressive. I am not talking about classicalising traditional music. I am talking about giving the people who have the talent a chance, because in them there is the greatest export potential of all.

If Bord Fáilte, the IDA and the ICC are having conferences they should coordinate the whole lot. They could promote whatever they are promoting in the mornings and afternoons but at night they should take their guests along not to some foreign group playing foreign music but to professionally organised televised shows where they could see the best that is in Ireland in 1985. On the 29 December Eamonn Andrews is coming over to present awards for achievements by Irish artists in 1985. We could coordinate four or five different lines of industry and probably get far more effect. I make a plea on behalf of all people involved in the music industry. We are offering the greatest asset we have. We can go back 700 or 800 years. There are tunes which are hundreds of years old which people carried down through the centuries. They are the standard today and they will be the standard in 200 years' time.

I want to conclude by thanking everyone for bearing with me and by hoping that out of this report some good will come for job creation, because it is the single most important thing we have to contend with today.

After that excellent contribution from Senator Cassidy it would be remiss of me not to congratulate him for all the efforts he is making in the whole area of music and the promotion of Irish artists not alone in this country but throughout the world. I am aware of his commitment in this area and of the work he has done outside the country to promote Ireland as a haven from a tourist point of view. He has also made a most excellent contribution to the cultural life of the city by his involvement in the National Waxworks Museum. Up to then such a museum was available only in the major international cities, but, thanks to the ingenuity of Senator Cassidy and his colleagues, such a museum became available to visitors here. I congratulate him for the efforts he has made in this regard. People from my parish have assisted him in no small way in trying to promote his music and the songs about Ireland and the lovely parts of Ireland. That would include my own part of the Glen of Aherlow and the people who have sung about it and who are very proud of it. The Minister himself is also aware of the area. He is a lover of the area and has been a visitor to it. There is a high level of interest in tourism among Senators on all sides of the House. I want to confine myself to the White Paper because I was not a member of the joint committee. However, there are other Members, including Senators Daly and McAuliffe-Ennis, who are members of the committee and who will want to make a contribution on this subject.

When we think about tourism we think about Bord Fáilte, and when we think about Bord Fáilte we think about Mr. McNulty, its Director-General. It would be remiss of me in my opening remarks if I did not offer him my condolences, and I am sure the condolences of the House, on the tragedy last week when he lost his son. We extend our sympathy to Mr. McNulty and offer our appreciation to him for all the work he he has done through Bord Fáilte for the development of what is a major industry here.

To judge the importance of the industry we have to look at the White Paper where we will discover that in 1983 our export earnings alone amounted to £512 million. After agriculture that makes tourism a vital part of our economic growth. There has been a major growth in the tourist industry and all agencies played an active role in that development from Bord Fáilte right down to the regional tourist boards, the development offices, the local tourist offices, county councils and county development teams. In 1984 we expect our export earnings to be £591 million — 7 per cent, or more, of our total foreign earnings. If we look at tourism in that light we will realise how important it is from the point of view of job creation and the service industry. Many people in the service sector are involved in tourism delivering the services and producing the cuisine. We should realise that the jobs dependent on out of State revenue alone for tourism is projected to be almost 82,000 people in 1986. As a Member representing people involved in the service industry I want to say how important I consider that industry is. Everything possible should be done by Government agencies or local authorities to help it. The rewards to the country as a whole can be measured in millions of pounds.

In this regard it is appropriate to pay a compliment to Senator Lanigan's native city, Kilkenny, on winning a national award this year. Those of us who know Kilkenny know it to be a most beautiful cultural city, a city of very fine buildings where the residents are so proud of it that they have taken it upon themselves to ensure that it is preserved in the way in which we would like all out cities to be preserved. It is a major tourist attraction. The number of people visiting Kilkenny is an indication of how visitors appreciate local communities getting involved in the development of their own city. Kilsheelan, in my native County Tipperary, was a national award winner in the past. It is a small village in comparison to the city of Kilkenny but I know of the commitment generated in places like Kilsheelan and, indeed, in other areas in south Tipperary by the county council through the tidy towns competition, tidy schools competition and the best garden competition. We have many competitions supported by funds from the county council. Availing of the assistance of the Bord Fáilte inspectorate we have established a whole system of giving schemes in the county. Local work in preparation for those competitions makes a major contribution to the environment. We are all concerned about the preservation of the environment: tourism succeeds if the environment is good.

Local tourist offices are vital but, unfortunately, some towns have lost their tourist offices. Unfortunately, the tourist office was taken out of Tipperary town for economic reasons. Local people, through the chamber of commerce, decided to open a local office on a voluntary basis and, to prove my point about public consciousness of the importance of tourism, young people who had left school or were preparing for their leaving certificate manned that office. They brought tourists who arrived on coaches on tours throughout the historically important parts of Tipperary town. That was done free of charge. That is the type of commitment that can never be matched by anybody. These young people were prepared to work for nothing to promote their own area.

Senator Cassidy said music was an important part of our culture that could be offered to tourists, particularly American who have Irish connections, and Australians. In latter days people from Arab countries have expressed an interest in our culture and music. People from Europe are also interested. Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann have made a major contribution in this area and all of us have complimented them regularly. Senator Cassidy and other Members spoke about them today. Senator de Brún frequently mentions that organisation. The Minister and I have spoken about their importance on many occasions and I know he would wish that he still had ministerial responsibility for their development. I know it has been given to the section of the Department of the Taoiseach responsible for culture and arts. Since that happened Comhaltas have not been given their rightful slice of the national cake available for the development of various cultures. What Comhaltas have to offer by way of music cannot be surpassed by anybody else or any other organisation throughout the world. What they give tourists alone is of vital importance. There should be some liaison between the Department of Tourism — for which my colleague. Deputy Michael Moynihan, is responsible — the Arts Council.

The Arts Council will have to be convinced of the importance of traditional music for the entertainment of tourists. When we go to America to promote the country they tell us that when they switch on a radio in Ireland they might as well be in Hong Kong or London because of the type of music played. When they switch on RTE programmes they expect to hear traditional music or the type of music they play regularly at home. It is music that helps them retain their love for this country. I am not suggesting that there should be traditional music all day on RTE but that during the tourist season some channel should play traditional music so that tourists who hire a car at Dublin, Shannon, Cork — or Knock, whenever the international flights land there or Farranfore will be able to hear traditional music on the radio. We may not be able to afford to produce live entertainment for such tourists but we should arrange to have some taped traditional music played for them. Living on this side of the Atlantic we may think it peculiar but it was mentioned so often to me when I was in America last year trying to promote Ireland that I felt I had a responsibility to refer to it here.

We realise from the facts and figures available that at the moment the most important tourists we have are from West Germany, America, Japan, the Middle East and Great Britain. It is sad to note that Irish residents in Britain are less likely to come home in future years. That is a pity because they were a major part of our tourist industry, particularly at Easter and Christmas. It is unfortunate that statistics indicate that that type of tourist trade is not as large as it used to be. Perhaps we should look at where we have gone wrong in our costs and all the other matters that influence people who want to come here.

Ireland is not cheap for a holiday. It has something very special to offer in its scenery, mountains, forests, streams and lakes. We are famous for our culture and cuisine. We have some of the best hotels, which are listed in international publications as the top hotels in the world. We are not lacking in anything except that our costs seem to be a little expensive for most tourists except those from strong economies like America and West Germany who feel they are getting good value. British and other tourists find that we are extremely expensive. The reduction in VAT on alcohol has brought down the price to the consumer and made it comparable to British prices. The fall in oil prices will mean that petrol will not be as expensive. The Irish tourist industry is probably giving the best value in the world in the area of bed and breakfast. The value given by guest houses particularly in Kerry, is second to none. I have benefited from it on several occasions. The quality, standard of hygiene and food and price in our guest houses is something we can be very proud of. When tourists come to Ireland they always go to the capital, Dublin. Then they must go to the Lakes of Killarney, kiss the Blarney Stone and see Galway city. As Senator Cassidy mentioned, the inland places tend to be overlooked. Tipperary is locked inland and is 60 miles from the sea or from any other tourist attraction. Therefore, we tend to be bypassed by tour and bus operators. We may have the most beautiful scenery, comparable to anything else in the country, but it is not identified on tourist brochures except through hoteliers in local areas or in the local tourist offices. SERTO do a lot to promote the south-east. Tourists who arrive at Rosslare are immediately directed to go to Cork and Kerry. I would like to se a fairer distribution and tourists. They should be given the option of seeing inland areas, which have tremendous attractions. For instance, the Galtee mountains and the Glen of Aherlow, are places that tourists would appreciate.

When I was abroad last year Aer Lingus were engaged in promotion work focused on the centre of Ireland. The commentator remarked that it was not a long way to Tipperary, as in the song, and projected an image of beautiful mountains nestling at the bottom of a valley, such as the Glen of Aherlow really is. I want to compliment Aer Lingus for promoting Tipperary as far away as the United States and Canada. People can identify with names like Killarney, because it is being sung about and because everyone knows of its beauty. Such popular areas are used by the tourist board to attract people to Ireland. Places like the Rock of Cashel, Cahir Castle, which the Office of Public Works have renovated, Ormond Castle in Carrick-on-Suir and other attractions of a cultural importance are important when doing promotional work in Germany and elsewhere. They are the places tourists should be taken to see. One can see beaches in most countries but historic buildings are appreciated by young and old. We have a tremendous history in Ireland and we should not be shy about it. If our history involves flashpoints with the British when they were in occupation we should not be shy about talking about it because it is part of our heritage and culture. My county was involved as much as any in that area.

When the CIE hotels were in jeopardy and likely to close, the Government made a decision to put those hotels under the auspices of CERT. That was a major contribution to the development of young people involved in the hotel management and catering industry. CERT is making a major contribution to the industry by training the people who are fortunate enough to be accepted. The acquisition of those fine hotels for that programme was a major contribution to the employment of young people in that vital area of tourism. It is one industry we can never do enough in. It is one that will never get sufficient budgetary recognition. The Minister of State will agree that if he got more money from the national Exchequer he would use it wisely and well in this area.

All the voluntary agencies involved, at local level, the statutory bodies, the regional tourist boards, Bord Fáilte and Aer Lingus, our national carrier, deserve great credit. People tend to criticise Aer Lingus and other organisations who operate in a very competitive society. Within the European context it is appropriate that they need some type of protection or otherwise we could lose them. It would be a tragedy for us if we allowed them to be outpriced by airlines who may offer cut-prices today but could leave the market tomorrow or the day after. We must recognise the prestige a national airline can give a country. We welcome any development in trying to reduce fares to a rate that will entice people to come to Ireland.

The Minister should make efforts to ensure that when Americans come to Europe and to Britain they will be encouraged to stop-over in Ireland. Once they make the trans-Atlantic crossing, the added cost of coming to Ireland would not be that much greater. There is a great difference in the number of American visitors who come to England in comparison to the number who come here. Therefore we should try to have some liaison between ourselves and the British, where both countries could be sold together as a package. In the event of such liaison I realise our tourist offices in America would have to sell to their patrons tours of Scotland and England.

Like the agricultural industry, if the tourist industry does well this country will prosper. They are two of the identifiable economic growth areas of which we can be proud. Much ingenuity has been used by hotel owners in my county and throughout the country. They have gone on promotion tours themselves to try to sell their own location and that is to be welcomed. If that type of activity could be co-ordinated through the regional councils we could really come to grips with selling something that no other country in the world can sell and that is a country that is rich in scenery, culture, history and is unsurpassed for its céad míle fáilte. We have something that nobody else can market and we have to do it in such a way that they will know about us. We are living under an illusion if we consider that everybody in the world knows about Ireland. Of course they do not. It is amazing the number of people who do not know about us in spite of all our problems. The tourist industry is close to the Minister's heart; he has been involved in it for a long time and he understands its importance. I have complete confidence in the commitment he is giving to the industry.

Like other speakers I welcome the Minister to this House. He comes from Killarney and everyone knows that Killarney is beauty's home and heaven's reflex. He was involved in tourism for many years and he has a special interest in the industry. The fact that he comes from Killarney which is the mecca of tourism is a very good thing.

The principal tourist area is the south-west region comprising Counties Cork and Kerry. The critical importance of tourist access for an island destination is highlighted both in the committee's report and the White Paper on Tourism Policy. If anything, the question of access is even more crucial for the south-west region. In recent years this region has lost the B & I Cork-Swansea car ferry service and Aer Lingus have reduced the number of direct flights to Cork from Britain and the continental cities, with more emphasis on routing through Dublin. Last year the then Lord Mayor of Cork, Deputy Liam Burke, put his head on the block and fought for a sum of money to have a ferry service in the south. The money was provided — £500,000 — but unfortunately when it was provided it was too late to get the ferry. If that money is still there I hope we will have the ferry service this year. I hope the Minister in his reply will comment on this as time is running out.

With regard to access by air, I welcome the proposal in the White Paper to facilitate the development by tourism interests of an expanded programme of charter activities to Cork and Shannon from the UK and continental Europe, consistent with the need to maintain viable scheduled air services. Above all, I ask the Minister to consider feeder services from Dublin and Shannon to Farranfore. This has already been requested for the west by my colleague, Senator Higgins, but I am interested in the south. I ask the Minister to comment on whether he can do anything in this regard. I know that if he can he will help. This is a very important commitment and the extent to which it is implemented will be taken as evidence of how serious we are with regard to the need to develop our tourism which is second in size to agriculture. There is no doubt that tourism is very valuable to this country. Because of the bad summer this year crops were affected. It is when agriculture becomes vulnerable that we know the value of tourism. You do not appreciate a fine day until you get a wet day.

I hope that the phrase in the White Paper "consistent with the need to maintain viable scheduled air services" will not be used as an excuse for obstructionist tactics by established vested interests. I cannot be as complimentary to Aer Lingus as my colleague, Senator Ferris. In the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Small Businesses of which I am proud to be a member Aer Lingus discussed this subject with us. Aer Lingus obstruct charters coming into this country. We had evidence of a charter which was to come from France bringing a lot of business being obstructed by Aer Lingus. Senator Ferris said that it is important and prestigious for a country to have its own airline and I could not agree more. However, in my opinion if we start the trans-Atlantic service the number of visitors on charters would be unparalleled in the history of tourism in this country.

I know the argument will be put forward that if you open up the airways to those people they will take the plums and leave the gooseberries; in other words, they will come here in summer but not in winter. What does that matter? I flew to the United States in 1981 on an Aer Lingus flight which started in Dublin but when we got to London we were put on an American airline. If they can do that themselves how can they blame anyone else for doing likewise? I want to see tourists coming into the country because tourism is the lifeblood of this country and should be encouraged in every way. If we took off that American service, which is losing in the region of £9 million a year, the loss would be around £14 million. It would be more than that except that Aer Lingus diversified by going into other businesses which were viable. If we concentrated on Europe we would get cheaper fares to the UK and more people would travel. Unfortunately, Aer Lingus seem to be more concerned with taking people out of this country than with bringing them in. You can go to an Aer Lingus office or agent and book for the Canaries for two weeks. You can get an apartment — other than in the Christmas season — and the flight for £250. If you want a holiday in Ireland, on arrival in Dublin, you rent a car and pay £200 before moving the car. Then you can drive down to Killarney, stop in Limerick and have a meal and fill the car with petrol, paying VAT on that, on the hire of the car on the meal in Limerick and on the hotel bill.

It is very hard to blame the hoteliers for high prices. They are forced to charge high prices. There are guesthouses, as mentioned by Senator Ferris, giving excellent value. I often wonder how the guesthouses can provide such an excellent service. The benefits are eaten up by the taxes and the travel costs. I would like to see Aer Lingus concentrating on Europe. There is plenty of scope in Europe. Let the Americans and the charters come in here. That is my own opinion. I am not expressing Government policy on that. VAT on meals at 23 per cent is nonsense in any country which is serious about promoting tourism. We have a situation here where there is no VAT on takeaway food. There is 23 per cent VAT on food consumed on premises, which is more job-intensive. There is a case for equal treatment all round at a low rate of VAT. When you suggest the reduction of VAT, the Minister for Finance is very glad to listen to you but having listened then he asks: "I would lose money on this VAT. Can you tell me where I am going to make up the money?" This is one occasion when I can tell the Minister that he will make up the money. If the VAT of 23 per cent is reduced to 10 per cent, and if the VAT which is zero on takeaway food at the moment is raised to 10 per cent and we then get a levelling-off of the VAT, there will be no loss to the Exchequer.

In relation to car hire, in its submission of October 1984 to the committee the Car Rental Council of Ireland produced a chart showing the cost of hiring a car from Hertz per day in each of nine European countries. Ireland at £85 per day was the most expensive. In Britain the cost was £63 per day. Of EC countries only Greece was more expensive. The decision to reduce VAT on car hire from 18 per cent to 10 per cent in the last budget is welcome and has resulted in an increase in car hire this year. However, even with this welcome VAT concession car hire is not competitive with other countries.

I would like to comment on car hire and the Northern Ireland situation. I would like to take this opportunity of congratulating the Government on the Anglo-Irish Agreement. If we get peace in our north-eastern counties which is a very good tourist area and if we get the people coming down here from the north that will benefit our tourism. At the moment we have something called back-tracking. Back-tracking means that people who come from the States and from other countries, if they hire cars in the North of Ireland, can hire those cars at roughly half the cost of car hire in the South of Ireland. I know what I am talking about on this subject because I am in the car hire business myself. The first question anybody is entitled to ask is "why are we twice as dear as the North of Ireland"? The answer is very simple — taxation. In this country we have VAT of 23 per cent, excise duty at 23 per cent under 12 horsepower, and 26 per cent over 12 horsepower. A car that costs £6,000 in the South costs £3,000 in the North. They have the benefit of buying the cars at half price.

Secondly, we have a horrible record of insurance claims in this country which, in fairness to the insurance companies, they have cognisance of. The result is that the car hire here is faced with about £900 premium per year on their cars whereas the premium in the North of Ireland is £150 to £200. There is no way we can compete with it. There are remedies for that and I will come to them later. With regard to coach tourism, the committee's report is unambiguous about how our tax system penalises coach tourism and what should be done about it. A combination of excise duty and VAT with no refunds on inputs, has left us with a Third World coach tourism sector.

Pages 40 and 41 of the White Paper acknowledges the problem with a vague commitment to do something about it. I hope this vague commitment leads to full-blooded action in time for the 1986 tourism season. I will quote from page 40 of the White Paper, which deals with car hire. In 1980 there were 36 rental companies in Ireland operating 8,000 cars. In 1985 there are 26 rental companies operating 6,000 cars. The report reads:

The availability of cars for hire is an important element of the tourism business since it brings visitors and consequently, income to areas which are not on the major coach tourism routes. In addition to the cars temporarily imported by tourists, approximately 15 per cent of overseas tourists avail of car hire while in Ireland. In the case of the North American market the figure is over 40 per cent. Because 90 per cent of the car hire sector's total turnover arises from overseas tourists, it is primarily an export-orientated industry. Regrettably the use of car hire by tourists has declined primarily because of the increasing high cost involved. Two major factors in that cost are taxation and insurance. The Government in an effort to enhance the international competitiveness of the sector reduced the rate of VAT on a range of tourist activities including car hire from 18 per cent to 10 per cent in the 1985 budget.

Car rental bears a variety of taxes and as a result the end price for car rental in Ireland is higher than the rates charged in competing European destinations. The burden of taxation and its effects and costs have been clearly demonstrated by various reports on tourism and the car rental sector in particular. The taxation burden and its key importance on this sector of the tourism industry, in a destination such as Ireland, has been acknowledged in the recently published White Paper policy document on tourism which I have just read.

While the two reductions in VAT from 23 per cent to 18 per cent, and more recently on 1 March 1985, to 10 per cent have been most welcome and have, undoubtedly, had a positive effect on demand, the most telling evidence available on the continual lack of competitiveness can be seen from the fact that in the first nine months of 1985 an increasing number of American visitors toured Ireland in cars rented in the United Kingdom. This is a reversal of the trend whereby the proportion hiring cars in the UK for use in Ireland had been on the decline. A proportion of American visitors to Ireland hiring cars in the UK in the year 1980-81 was 1 per cent to 3 per cent. In 1982, from January-September, the figure was 4 per cent, and the annual figure 5 per cent; in 1983, the figures were 9 per cent, and 8 per cent respectively. In 1984, from January-September, they were 4 per cent, and the annual figure was also 4 per cent. In 1985, the figure was 7 per cent from January-September, and the annual figures are not available. The source of these figures was the BFE Survey of Travellers. Up to the end of September 1985, an estimated 7 per cent of US visitors to Ireland had rented cars in the UK. This would represent 10,300 car rentals or 12.2 per cent of the total American car rentals touring Ireland.

The percentage of US visitors renting cars in Ireland from January to September 1984 was 48 per cent; in January-September, 1985, it was 50 per cent; in January to September 1984, there were 72,000 rentals, and in January-September 1985, 74,000. The percentage of US visitors to Ireland renting cars from the UK was 4 per cent in 1984, and in January-September 1985, it was 7 per cent, which represented 6,000 rentals in 1984 and 10,300 in 1985. These are Bord Fáilte estimates. Hence, while the total US market for car rentals was buoyant, a larger share of Americans rented cars in the UK with the resultant loss of revenue to the car rental sector, and a loss to the Irish Exchequer in VAT, excise duty on cars, parts and fuel, and indirectly, a loss of revenue for airlines and accommodation providers due to shorter length of stay in Ireland.

Since the performance of the US visitor market to Ireland is crucial to the survival of the car rental sector — US market accounts for 55 per cent of total car rentals — concern must be expressed about the prospects for 1986. Given a decline in the value of the US dollar the buoyancy of the market for travel to Europe and Ireland experienced over the past three seasons is unlikely to be present. These conditions coupled with the growing trend of increasing US multidestination traffic to Ireland would suggest that the uncompetitive Irish car rental product would again lose an increasing share of potential car rentals to the UK.

I have already outlined a major contributory cost to the current high rates of car rental. We continue on to the estimated gain to the Exchequer of direct earnings due to substitution for 10,000 car rentals in the UK as follows: 10,000 car rentals multiplied by £200 per one week rental represents £2 million; 10,000 car rentals require 800 extra cars. VAT at 23 per cent would come to £1,472 million. Road tax on 800 cars, £80,000. Excise duty on increased petrol sales would come to £208,000. The total would be £1,960 million. Hence without other considerations such as increased income and corporation tax, and VAT and excise earnings on increased sales in Ireland to visitors staying for a longer period of time, approximately £2 million could be generated for the Exchequer by reducing the "leakage" to the UK rental cars.

The report of the Joint Committee, which I am proud to be involved in has a chapter headed "Irish Holidays and Transport Services" It reads:

Just over one-third of all holiday-makers to Ireland pre-purchases an inclusive or "package" holiday arrangement offered by a tour operator in his own country.

While responsibility for all the necessary arrangements and for representing the tour operator in Ireland rests with an Irish handling agent, in many instances the involvement of the tour operator in Ireland has been as a result of the marketing activity of an Irish handling agent. Hence, this sector fulfils an essential marketing role from "creating" the package holiday and promoting it overseas, negotiating between producer and tour operator, to exercising quality control and ensuring customer satisfaction.

Given the situation that the Irish tourism product consists of small units and that for many foreign tour operators Ireland is very often a secondary destination, generating a relatively small share of their business, the handling agent represents an effective and economically efficient channel of distribution for Irish tourism. The potential for growth and development of new markets has not been fully exploited due to low marketing investment in this channel.

I would like the Government to consider having a Minister for Tourism, whom we have already but who has much more to do as well, only so that more time would be made available to make the load lighter on him and get better results for the tourist trade.

The report further reads:

Furthermore, foreign based and owned tour operators do not necessarily have a long term commitment to Ireland and with a very small base of Irish companies operating overseas, Irish tourism is in a potentially vulnerable situation.

The problems facing Irish handling agents include:

—low margins resulting in low level of investment

—low asset base against which to raise finance

—high overseas marketing development costs.

Currently, there are 20 members of the professional body for the sector, the Irish Handling Association, plus two semi-State operators CIE and SFADCo (Castle Tours). Employment is estimated at 200 full time year-round jobs with a considerable additional seasonal content.

Recommendation

Recognising the need for a more commercial approach to expanding existing and developing new markets the activity of Bord Fáilte should be complemented by handling agents. This can be achieved by means of a CTT-type of programme to encourage greater overseas marketing such as funding support for placement of sales personnel overseas; training grants; encouragement of co-operative ventures; and sharing risk cost of test-marketing programmes. There should be a cost benefit analysis of the return to Irish tourism from specific incentives to foreign tour operators based on the number of persons and extra spending power they would generate if given inducements to promote Ireland.

Coaches

(i) Background

Coach and bus transportation is provided by CIE and private operators. Business for this sector can be divided into four categories:

—provision of scheduled public transport service through the stage carriage licence;

—express coach services between points within Ireland and to points outside the country;

—provision of coaches for tourists, including day tours, extended coach tours of Ireland, and transfers.

—domestic private hire and contract work (including school bus services).

CIE have a virtual monopoly of stage carriage and express services within the country. The private sector control the larger share of coaches for tourism, domestic private hire and contracts.

During the past 10 years the share of the overall market held by the private coach operators has grown dramatically. Today there are over 4,000 public service licences issued to vehicles from minibus size upwards.

The number employed full-time in the private coach business is 6,000 with a further 4,000 part-time employees.

Since 1933, the bus-coach industry has been controlled by Acts of the Oireachtas, designed mainly to protect the railways. No new scheduled passenger licences have been issued since the 1930s. All private coaches operating are restricted to private hire only.

The growth in the size of the private coach market took place in spite of the following:—

(a) lack of protection from a licensing system such as the Road Haulage industry has;

(b) Competition from a heavy subsidised state company (CIE).

With regard to CIE the Committee notes with concern the condition of the CIE fleet in rural Ireland. Buses can be dirty and exhaust discharges seem excessive.

We talk about pollution and smoking, but one bus would be the equivalent of about one million cigarettes in some places I have been.

The report continues:

Entry to the private coach business is open to anyone who obtains a Road Passenger Certificate from the Department of Communications. Certificates are issued to applicants who fulfil the following three conditions:

(1) Be professionally competent.

(2) Be of good repute.

(3) Be of good financial standing.

The growth of the private coach business was helped by the Department of Education Free Transport scheme. Approximately 40 per cent of Irish school children travel to and from school on privately owned coaches. In some thinly populated areas, they operate exclusively the school transport scheme while CIE operate mainly in the population areas. Due to this anomaly, 60 per cent of the vehicles hired by the Department of Education for the "Free Transport Scheme" are supplied by the private transport operators.

The competition between CIE and the private coach operators is mainly confined to 2 areas:—

(a) Transportation of passengers to and from Dublin especially at weekends.

(b) Tours of Ireland — the private coaches now compete with CIE and overseas based operators, for a share of this market. The 14 private coach tourism operators registered with Bord Fáilte have a total of 180 coaches — CIE have 31 tour coaches.

(ii) Tourism Aspects

A characteristic of the sector in recent years in relation to the Tourism traffic has been the decline in both share and absolute level of demand which is being serviced by Irish companies. British coach equipment is being used to a greater extent each year in meeting the needs of this growth market. Due to significant capital and operating cost differences the Irish supplier is uncompetitive on price and quality of equipment when compared with his British counterpart. The longer term implications of this trend are serious, in terms of foreign revenue earnings, employment and the extent to which non-Irish companies will control the market. A consequence of the shift to UK coaching equipment is the fact that in many instances visitors to Ireland do not have the benefit of an Irish guide on their tour.

Demand for tourism coach hire will increase. This increased demand should be met by Irish rather than overseas operators, but as long as the tax structure in this area remains as at present, there is no prospect of Irish operators becoming competitive.

The Committee is satisfied from oral evidence from the Coach Tourism Council of Ireland that a system of registration of the 211 coaches or so used for tourist purposes only can be devised in co-operation with the National Tourism Authority and the Revenue Commissioners to facilitate taxation measures which the Committee recommends with a view to making Irish coach tourism competitive.

(iii) Effect of Taxes on Competitiveness

Foreign based coaches have a much higher standard of comfort than Irish based coaches. At least 90 per cent of the Irish coach fleet is over 10 years old as Irish operators usually import secondhand coaches from the UK. This is due to high excise duty and VAT.

There is a 6.5% excise duty on the new landed retail price of coaches and 23% VAT on the purchase price of the coach inclusive of excise duty. Coaches carry no excise duty in the U.K. Diesel fuel here costs 15% more than in the U.K. and vehicle taxes are higher. Capital allowances for coaches in Ireland are 20% per annum, in the UK 75% for the first year.

The position of VAT is particularly difficult. Passenger transport is exempt from VAT. There is therefore no refund of VAT on any inputs into the coach transport business, including the purchase of coaches, fuel and spare parts. VAT on a new coach is 23%. Transport is zero rated in the UK. The UK operator pays 15% VAT for his inputs and can reclaim it in full.

In this country the fact that the coaches are not registered for VAT means that they cannot claim back the VAT.

The report continues:

The principal consequence of this situation has to be a lack of competitiveness on the part of Irish coach operators in a growing international market.

The Commission on Taxation recommends in its Third Report that passenger transport be made subject to VAT. Commenting, mainly within the context of CIE, the Commission states that "the present exemption does not free passenger services from VAT. As the operator of an exempt service CIE is unable to reclaim the input tax on goods and services purchased for both road and rail passenger services. At present, input taxes incurred in day-to-day operation of passenger road and rail services amount to £7-£8 million per annum." This is the equivalent to a VAT rate of approximately 5% on receipts.

The Committee is of the view that the rating for VAT of passenger transport at the present low rate of 10% would not have an appreciable effect on fares or hire charges and supports the Commission's recommendation that VAT be applied to passenger transport services in respect of journeys within the State.

Recommendations

(i) VAT: The Committee recommends that VAT be charged on all passenger transport within the State at the low rate of 10%—thus allowing operators to reclaim VAT on all equipment, parts, and fuel. For public transport, receipts can be offset by an increase in the State subvention to CIE.

(ii) Coach Tourism: A system of registration for Tourist Coaches should be introduced in co-operation with the National Tourism Authority and the Revenue Commissioners.

The following facilities would apply in respect of registered coaches.

(a) A scheme of deferred payment of excise duty on new tourist coaches whereby no excise duty would be paid until the coach ceases to operate for tourist purposes,

(b) Capital allowance of 50 per cent per annum compared with 20 per cent at present.

I have dealt with car hire fairly extensively. The only other thing I would like to say about car hire is that in other countries the excise duty that we are paying which represents a large amount of money is 23 per cent under 12 h.p. and 26 per cent over 12 h.p.

These vehicles are bought and changed every year in 70 per cent of cases. If the excise duty was deferred until the resale of the car it would mean a saving of about £2,000 on an £8,000 car. In respect of every three cars the saving would provide the operator with one more car. The Exchequer would not lose anything in the long term but would in the short term. When the vehicle is disposed of the excise duty and VAT would be paid. The VAT does not present a problem in itself for the car hire industry; they can reclaim the VAT. If they could get a deferment of the excise duty that would go a long way in helping the industry.

Senator Cassidy had a lot to say about drink. He could not see any excuse for the extension of licences and suggested that drink was creating a great problem. Everybody knows that drink does not create any problem, it is the abuse of drink. In the near future restaurants especially bona fide restaurants who give a full meal, will be in a position to apply for a licence. If that increases the number of licences and if the criterion is that the premises has to pass Bord Fáilte I would be in favour of that. It is a shocking state of affairs the way the law can be circumvented. A man may drink up to closing time at 11.30 or whatever time it may be.

Thank you. When the pub closes at 11 o'clock people can the proceed to hotels and halls which run discos. They pay £3, get a meal of chicken and chips which is usually a bit of chicken that was killed by some organisation. The law does not permit the killing of a chicken before it is three or four years old. In other words, it should have laid about 2,000 eggs before it is killed.

The Senator is well up on discos.

I have a knowledge of discos but not a knowledge of farming. I stay in hotels where discos are held and I see what goes on. People get a piece of chicken and a few chips on a cardboard plate. I have seen all of this put to one side and ending up in a bin. In other words, people have paid £3 to get all the drink they want after the licensed hours. I would commend Bord Fáilte and the Government to provide licences for genuine restaurants where full meals are served. It is sad that when people want to go to a restaurant to have a meal they are rushing to get back to their hotel to get a drink before closing time. If they are resident in the hotel they can drink all night. If they have friends with them they rush back to try to get a drink before closing time whereas they can go to the disco around the corner for a further £3 and drink away until about 2 o'clock. If they are resident in the hotel they can go back there and drink all night. There is discrimination there. I would favour these restaurants getting licences.

I have already spoken about the UK visitors. I congratulate the Government on the Anglo-Irish Agreement. The people in the North of Ireland were very good for hiring cars and I think it will bring that business back.

I would like to talk about two other things which are very important in relation to tourism. One is the telephone service and the other is the postal service. Successive Governments have put about £500 million into telephone service. Strange as it may seem, one can lift the telephone and get Japan, New York and Australia but if one were to dial for an operator one might have to wait for 15 minutes or in Dublin at night for 30 minutes. Our telephone service is the greatest lottery of all time. One gets a telephone bill with no details whatsoever.

The Post Office for some reason best known to themselves have not made known to people — Senator Fitzsimons raised this in his contribution — that for a rental of £9 a year they can get a meter on their telephones. That meter is a check meter on the readings they get from the telephone company. It is not taken as absolute because it can be interfered with. But if the meter is there and sealed and not interfered with any call that is made on that is recorded. People will then pay only for the calls. In other countries a meter is not needed because the accounts are furnished in full detail giving the number of the calls made, when made, the duration of each call, extension number and so on. I believe we will have that system at a later stage but it will cost a great deal of money.

There is another danger concerning the meter. I had occasion to stay in a hotel a few years ago where they had this direct dialling. I went to my room, I was very tired, it was late at night and I went to bed. The next morning when I went to pay my bill I was told there was £9 for telephone charges although I had not lifted the telephone. I was told I had to pay it. I said I did not have to pay it and requested the manager. The manager arrived and it was discovered that they had not read the telephone meter for the client who left the day before. If I had had the misfortune to have made even one call I would have had to pay the £9.

There is one other thing about Telecom which I cannot understand. Telecom have done an extensive advertising campaign in the last three or four months in the newspapers. The person in charge of advertisements should confront them. They are now saying that a telex system can be installed which is so cheap and so efficient and the machines are so silent they are called the whispering machine. What they have not told the people is that there is such a thing as a facsimile machine known as Fax or Telefax. There is no rental on that telefax machine but there is a rental on the telex machine of £14 a year. Anyone can operate it. You can write, you can send a photograph, you can send a document, and the customs and excise in each country will accept a document out of that as an original document. They will not accept it from a copying machine but they will accept it from that. You can send a message to the States which costs 90p on the Telefax machine and costs £4.50 by telex. The telex has another disadvantage in that you must be a typist or have a typist to type your messages. Anybody can use the Telefax machine. It is wrong that the Post Office do not make people aware of this. I believe there is an argument going on between Bord Telecom and An Post, one of them maintaining the message is a letter and the other that it is Telecom business. While they are arguing about that the people do not know anything about it except those who were smart enough to get the Telefax. Fortunately, I saw it in the States and got one of them and I know what it is all about. Now that we have no telephone we have no Fax directory to let us know who has got them so that we can use them. Fortunately our suppliers had a directory and we got one.

I cannot understand the post. When I am in Dublin I reside in Dublin 2 and letters are sent to me every day from Dublin 2. I get my Seanad business, Seanad Order Paper and Dáil questions on Thursday mornings after the Dáil questions have been answered on Wednesday and the Seanad proceedings on Wednesday are over. I got a letter from the Society of the Irish Motor Industry to Dublin 2. I complained to An Post and sent them envelopes with the post markings of them. The reply I got was that I should not take any notice of the post mark because the people were franking the machines but were not posting the letters. There is no franking on official letters coming from the Dáil and they come to me a day after. I told them it was a complete waste and not to send them to me any more. I changed my address to Leinster House hoping that the difficulty might be overcome. I got a letter from the Society of the Irish Motor Industry sent to me on 28 July making an appointment to meet on 1 August in this House. That letter was delivered here to Leinster House on 4 October. The letter, for some unknown reason, found its way to the United Dominions Trust, with whom, thank God, I have no business. They got the letter and stamped it having received it on 4 October and they sent it by hand to this House. I have that envelope and I have the evidence to show that a letter that was sent from Dublin 2 on 28 July last was delivered to the wrong address. It had a stick-on typewritten label. So there could be no mistake about the address. With the postal service we have and the high cost for post and telephone service——

An Post do not claim to have improved like the telephone people.

If we invested our money in carrier pigeons it would have taken less money than the digital telephone system. Bianconi set up a transport system in Clonmel without any State aid and ran coaches all over Ireland delivering the mail. We should go back to that system because what we have now is not working.

I am glad of the opportunity of speaking on this report. At the outset I would like to compliment the Joint Committee on their very thorough examination and the work that has been put into the compilation of this report which deals with a very important industry. It is one that has not got the same percentage rate of national aids and input as other industries appear to enjoy. It is appropriate that the Joint Committee on Small Businesses should have spent so much time looking at this industry and this aspect of Irish life which touches so many people, especially people in the private sector. The report must be taken as a great basis for future policy decisions on improving the situation and encouraging people to avail of the facilities that are there. Within this report local communities or development associations will have the opportunity of seeing ways and means by which they can by their own self-help and initiative gear their communities or town councils or development associations to avail of and to attract and to cater for more tourists in a more becoming way.

I come from the Midland region. Our colleague, Senator Cassidy, comes from the north of the Midland region. I served on that tourist development association before the regions were introduced but we were never regarded as being tourist minded in the Midlands especially in Laois and Offaly. When the regions came in, the Midland tourist region is the residue of what remained in the State when all the natural regions were drawn up. We have a collection of areas that have got much in common. In my earlier years on the board of Lakeland I had a standing row on the occasion of exhibitions, every publication and development of the Midland Regional Development to get them to include even one picture of some aspect of tourism or the environment in County Laois. We have made considerable progress. There are many people in all towns in the Midland counties and indeed in every parish who seize the opportunity of providing and assisting the general national economy by catering for tourists. Too often tourists are regarded as foreigners rather than as people who want to spend a leisurely or quiet few days or week-end away from home. It is important that the State should take a lead and encourage and introduce incentives to assist people to avail of the opportunity of providing a living for themselves and creating employment, especially during the summer months.

Tourism is certainly an industry that is very far-flung. The fall-out from it is very wide and with a little imagination it can be extended. We have had many varying and interesting speeches on this report and I want to compliment the Minister for being so patient with the House. The report has gone into its third week. Our colleagues here see the potential in this industry and we are encouraged by the fact that the Minister and his officials are in a frame of mind for expansion. We hope they will be able to ensure that in the coming budget they will fight for even greater resources to be made available to encourage people and to assist them to provide for persons who might like to visit Ireland. The foreign tourist is extremely important to us. The fact that this country and a friendly neighbouring country have at last got down to signing an agreement should herald a new era in tourism from the United Kingdom. Traditionally, English tourists have been recognised as being very free spenders and quite easily catered for. The do not have any language problem. Let us hope that in the coming tourist season the tourist industry will be able to have maximum putthrough of bed nights in all grades.

Senator Lanigan gave a rundown on the numbers employed in servicing the tourist industry, the figure is low having regard to the importance of the industry and underlines the tremendous service provided by the small number of people whether in the Department of Industry and Commerce or Bord Fáilte or in the regional development organisations. Those people, working together and in close co-operation with people on the ground have achieved a tremendous saving of general standards in the quality of the service that is obtainable in practically every part of Ireland. While I say that, I do not think that any of those bodies should lessen their vigilance to ensure that standards remain high. We should strive to achieve in hotel, guesthouse, farm guesthouse, caravan park or camp a high standard of cleanliness, hygiene and comfort.

The Department of Forestry and Wildlife propose to embark next year on the spending of £5 million in the Slieve Blooms, which is in the very heart of Ireland, on the creation of a new national park on the mountain range between Laois and Offaly. I would like to pay a tribute to Mr. J.I. Fanning, Chairman of the Slieve Bloom Development Association, from Birr who has campaigned so tirelessly over a long number of years to have this come about. This will open a magnificent area of unspoilt beauty, tranquillity and peace to a wider public. People will be able almost to walk back in time a couple of thousand years to the year of Fionn Mac Cumhail. We saw in the Royal Hospital an exhibition of the Terra Cotta soldiers from China. The Slieve Bloom is one of the few remaining unspoilt regions.

Unfortunately that region lost a lot of its inhabitants in the middle of the last century. The region has not been reinhabited. The Forestry Department have planted wide areas. As the forest has been cleared over the last number of years, the Forestry and Wildlife Service have kindly allocated two entire valleys to a national park which will be only an hour and a quarters drive from Dublin, which is very convenient to densely populated areas. It will be a very relaxing place for people to spend an afternoon or a few days. It is worthwhile for people from the larger cities and for tourists to visit the quiet market towns of Abbeyleix or Mountrath or Durrow or Kinnitty at the foothills of the Slieve Blooms or Portarlington with its unique Huguenot architecture or Portlaoise or Carlow or Kilkenny City, which is renowned for its black marble. I live a few miles from Kilkenny. Unfortunately, it is not in my constituency but it is only 20 miles from me. It is always a great joy to go in to Kilkenny. I admire Kilkenny Corporation for the way they administer the Planning Acts and laws. Kilkenny is the one area where, although famous for its confederation, it is even more famous for its conservation, for the way that the public and the corporation maintain their city, the way they have respect for the traditions and the antiquities there. It is very pleasant to visit Kilkenny at all times of the year. It has been greatly enhanced over the last number of years by the development and expansion of the Kilkenny Design Centre. Kilkenny won the Tidy Towns competition this year. Most tourists leaving Dublin tend to tear right down the Cork, Limerick or Galway road. They do not meander around the midland counties. Everyone seems to be hell bent on getting into and out of Dublin. That is wrong. CIE have got a bit of a flaking here and I do not want to join in that. CIE have a job to do but at the same time this island is very small. People may book a holiday in Ireland and drive at 60 miles an hour from the east to the west or from the north to the south and then go back and say that they have seen the country. One has not seen the country until one has met the people. Temperaments differ from county to county. I would not be thanked for encouraging large tourist buses on many of the county roads in the midland counties. It is only off the main arterial highways that one gets an opportunity of meeting people at a leisurely pace and of savouring the delights of an Ireland that is unspoilt and not so affected by materialism or by the rush and bustle of modern style living.

In planning tourist development I would hope that the Minister would be able to call in agencies such as CIE, B & I and Aer Lingus and together ensure that the public services they provide enable the tourists to see not just Ireland at its best but the best of Ireland. That is very important. I am not trying to take industry away from the traditional and highly recognised tourist areas because they carried the can for many years and have made a tremendous contribution to the national economy. We can expect to accommodate many more people. With the inflation rate going steadily down here, it should herald better value for foreign tourists.

Debate adjourned.
The Seanad adjourned at 5 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 18 December 1985.
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