Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Oct 1986

Vol. 114 No. 5

Order of Business.

Professor Dooge

It is proposed to take Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4. No. 1, which is the Air Pollution Bill, and No. 2, which is the report on acid rain, are being debated together and will continue to be debated together. Item No. 3 is the National Monuments Bill. This will be taken only if Nos. 1 and 2 are disposed of before 5 p.m. I would also suggest that if, at 5.30 p.m. the Minister of State has commenced her concluding address, she be allowed to conclude it. Otherwise we will take our break as normal from 5.30 p.m. to 6.30 p.m., and Private Members' Business will be taken from 6.30 p.m. to 8.30 p.m.

For the information of Senators, it is proposed to sit tomorrow and the business tomorrow will be Nos. 5 and 6 on today's Order paper. No. 5, the Dublin Metropolitan Streets Commission (No. 2) Bill, 1986, will be taken in the morning and No. 6, the Fifth Report of the Joint Committee on Small Businesses, will be taken tomorrow afternoon.

Mr. Lanigan

Is it proposed that if the Air Pollution Bill and item No. 2 are not completed by 5.30 p.m. that we continue the debate on these items in the morning, or is it suggested that we start tomorrow morning with item No. 5? I suggest that we do not break at 5.30 p.m. but continue until closing time this evening. In my view, taking breaks is utterly ridiculous. Many of those who look for breaks are not here when they are wanted.

Mr. Ross

This is the third time on the Order of Business that I have tried to raise the subject of the economic crisis in the country. Last week I was told in reply that I could raise it in the normal course of events by putting a motion down on the Order paper. Item No. 38 on the Order Paper is a motion in the name of the Fianna Fáil party about the crisis in the economy which has led to unprecedented borrowing, a record current budget deficit and a crisis of confidence. In order to test the goodwill of this House. I am challenging the Order of Business today. I oppose the Order of Business. To test the Government's goodwill, to emphasise the fact that the Seanad is sitting, and there is an economic crisis in this country and that the Seanad will not debate it, I propose that item No. 38 be taken today and that it not be delayed for three weeks.

Mr. Daly

I thank you for taking my motion on speed limits on the Adjournment this evening. At present the law is being brought into disrepute.

An Cathaoirleach

You cannot make a speech now. You will have the opportunity this evening.

Mr. Daly

I will keep my comments for this evening. Thank you.

Mr. Fallon

Can the Leader of the House say whether there are any proposals to have a discussion in this House on the Report of the Commission on Social Welfare, a very important document?

Mr. B. Ryan

I have waited patiently, as the Leader of the House no doubt knows, for item No 26 on today's Order Paper, that is, the Committee Stage of the Housing (Homeless Persons) Bill, to be taken. I have been patient because of promises of Government action in this area. It is 12 months since a Government response to this problem was published. There have been two hours' debate on the issue in the other House. Can the Leader of the House give me any time table as to when it is expected that this issue, which this House has treated with great patience will be dealt with by the Government and as to when this House can deal with it? If it cannot be dealt with by the procedures the Government had in mind, then we ought to proceed with Committee Stage of my Private Members' Bill and not leave homeless people living on the streets of our cities for yet another winter. This will be the third winter the homeless have awaited a political response to their problems. I raise this subject now having been patient for 12 months and because it is approximately the first anniversary of the publication of Government legislation. Do the Government intend to do anything about it, or has the issue been abandoned?

Mrs. McGuinness

I support the suggestion made by Senator Fallon about the possibility of discussing the Report of the Commission on Social Welfare. This report is a document of crucial importance in the whole area of social welfare. It is most important that the proposals in it, and the whole restructuring of the social welfare system which is envisaged by it, should be discussed by this House.

Professor Dooge

I will endeavour to deal with the various points raised. First, I should like to confirm to the Leader of the Opposition that we will commence at 10.30 a.m. tomorrow with item No. 5 — Dublin Metropolitan Streets Commission (No. 2) Bill — irrespective of what stage Nos. 1, 2 and 3 have been reached today. In regard to the question of taking item No. 38 today, that is an item of Private Members' Business. We have a well established system in this House which, to my mind, is working very well, that is that each group in turn choose the motion on the Order Paper for discussion in Private Members' Business Time. It is the turn of the Labour Party to move a motion at 6.30 p.m. this evening. They have indicated their preference and I think it would be against the whole way in which we have agreed to operate Private Members' Business if that were to be disturbed. Certainly I would not support a proposition to disturb that.

In regard to the question of a debate on the report of the Commission of Social Welfare, once again of course if this is a high priority with Members of the House it can be dealt with in Private Members' time. I take it that the question that is being addressed to me is whether I am prepared to give Government time for discussion of the report of the Commission on Social Welfare. In that regard there is a vast amount of legislation and if as the weeks go by we tend to dispose of that legislation certainly I will take up with the Minister the question of allowing some Government time in regard to that. In regard to the Homeless Persons Bill, we have a Private Members' Bill here in the Seanad and a Government Bill in the Dáil. First I would like to thank Senator Brendan Ryan for his patience.

Mr. B. Ryan

It is exhausted.

Professor Dooge

There was a time when we had a weekly conversation on this particular topic. What he has said is perfectly understandable and I will pass on his message undiluted to those responsible for business in another place.

Mr. B. Ryan

The Leader of the House has my full permission to embellish it.

Professor Dooge

I have forgotten the last question. There was a further question but perhaps I have dealt with them all.

Mr. Lanigan

In normal circumstances I would not disagree with what the Leader of the House has said regarding the ordering of Private Members' motions. However, I think the people outside this House are looking for guidance from the Houses of the Oireachtas with regard to matters on the economic front and there is a motion in front of us which would give us an opportunity to debate the very serious situation everybody in this country is facing because of the mishandling of the economy by the present Government. On a day on which interest rates have risen by 2 per cent, when businesses are going to be eliminated because of the huge increased costs which have been acknowledged by everybody as being as a direct result of Government mismanagement, we would have to support the plea by Senator Ross that item No. 38 be taken today.

Professor Dooge

I do not know if I am out of order having remembered the additional point that was raised, which was a suggestion that there be no suspension from 5.30 p.m. to 6.30 p.m. I am in the hands of the House in that regard.

An Cathaoirleach

Is Senator Ross moving an amendment?

Mr. Ross

I move that No. 38 be taken today, the item on the economy and that it be taken at 6.30 p.m. for one and half hours instead of the Labour Party motion, because of the crisis in the economy and the urgency of the motion.

An Cathaoirleach

Is that seconded?

Mr. Lanigan

Yes.

Question proposed: "That the amendment be made."

The Seanad divided: Tá, 16; Níl, 22.

Tá

• Cassidy, Donie.
• de Brún, Séamus.
• Fallon, Seán.
• Fitzsimons, Jack.
• Hillery, Brian.
• Honan, Tras.
• Kiely, Rory.
• Lanigan, Mick.
• Lynch, Michael.
• McAuliffe-Ennis, Helena.
• McGuinness, Catherine I.B.
• Mullooly, Brian.
• O'Toole, Martin J.
• Ross, Shane P.N.
• Ryan, Brendan.
• Ryan, Eoin.

Níl

• Belton, Luke.
• Burke, Ulick.
• Connor, John.
• Daly, Jack.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Dooge, James C.I.
• Durcan, Patrick.
• Kelleher, Peter.
• Lennon, Joseph.
• McDonald, Charlie.
• McGonagle, Stephen.
• FitzGerald, Alexis J.G.
• Harte, John.
• Higgins, Jim.
• Higgins, Michael D.
• Hourigan, Richard V.
• Howard, Michael.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Magner, Pat.
• O'Brien, Andy.
• O'Mahony, Flor.
• Rogers, Brid.

Tellers: Tá: Senators Ross and B. Ryan; Níl: Senators Belton and Harte.

Question declared lost.

Order of Business agreed to.