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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 3 Dec 1986

Vol. 115 No. 3

Order of Business.

It is proposed to order Items Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4. Item No. 1 is merely the formal ordering of the Second Stage of a Bill introduced in the Seanad. No. 2 is the continuation of the Control of Clinical Trials Bill, 1986, on Committee Stage, which spilled over from the last day. No. 3 is the Air Pollution Bill, 1986, to be taken on Committee Stage. No. 4 is a Private Members' Bill in regard to social welfare appeals, the Social Welfare (Appeals Tribunals) Bill, 1986, Second Stage, which will be taken from 6.30 p.m. to 8 p.m. In view of the large amount of business which we have on hand at the moment, it is not proposed to rise from 5 p.m. to 6 p.m. The Minister has indicated her willingness to continue the debate beyond 8 o'clock on the Committee Stage of the Air Pollution Bill, until 11 p.m., if necessary, in order to complete the Committee Stage today. It is a matter for the House to decide whether it wishes to do this or not.

I agree that we should continue on as long as is necessary in order to bring as many of these difficult Bills as possible to a conclusion. The problems which we have now, coming up to Christmas, are beginning to show themselves. Irrespective of what happens on these particular Bills today, we must have the Report Stages debated. The Control of Clinical Trials Bill could take quite some time on Report Stage. We have the Single European Act coming before the House. We have the Extradition Bill coming before us. Between now and Christmas there seems to be a lot of legislation that it would appear will have to be rushed through unless sitting days are long and extra sitting days are agreed.

I would not wish Bills before us to be concluded in a hurry, or in a slapdash manner. This House should have adequate time to discuss the two very important Bills that are coming in. Of course, before Christmas we have to have the Appropriation Bill discussed. The time element is of major importance at this stage. I would like the Leader of the House to give his opinion on what he feels will be the situation over the next couple of weeks.

Arising on the Adjournment matter I wished to raise tonight, I respect your ruling but I cannot understand why the Minister for the Environment has not this responsibility since he sets out the regulations governing local improvement schemes and also provides the money for the schemes. I fail to see why he should not be held responsible for the administration of those schemes. I had in mind a particular one in my own constituency. I will not discuss it now. I respect the Chair's ruling, but I must say I am disappointed that the Minister is not responsible for answering a question about what I see as an inadequacy in the scheme as it operates at present.

May I, as one enemy of the people to another enemy of the people, ask the Leader of the House when the amendments to the Status of Children Bill will be introduced?

A number of us are concerned about what business will be transacted by the Seanad between now and the Christmas recess. Normally, the Leader of the House indicates what is proposed to take tomorrow. I would be greatful if he would so indicate in his reply. I would like some indication from him of the Bills that will be dealt with by this House. I share the concern of Senator Lanigan that we should have enough time to actually examine these Bills, particularly on Committee Stage, and, if necessary, on Report Stage. This can only happen if we know sufficiently in advance what the programme is.

I would assume, for example, that some priority will be given to the Electoral (Special Voters) Bill which will be given its first reading today. That Bill will require early debate. I would like to know what programme the Leader of the House envisages, and what kind of time we will have for discussion of Bills. If possible, it would be helpful to Members if we could have an actual programme distributed to us for the remainder of this session.

I realise that the business before the House is very urgent. Motion No. 34 in the name of mixed party people. I ask the Leader of the House to jog the memory of the Minister for the Environment that such a motion exists. Resulting from that he might give us some indication as to when it will be discussed.

Very appropriate, Senator.

I share the concern of Senator Lanigan about the difficulty of getting our business completed. I also share his appreciation of how the Seanad has worked in recent weeks and months. I have absolutely no desire to curtail discussion on any of the important measures before us.

In regard to the question of how I envisage our programme between now and the date of adjournment, all I can give to the House is the position as I know it at the moment. I have been working on this for the past few days. The average lifetime of a programme for the House is about three hours, because some other consideration comes up. As of now, I envisage that our programme would be somewhat as follows: I propose, under No. 1, to ask the House to take the Electoral (Special Voters) Bill, which is agreed in principle, tomorrow morning. It would be a matter for the House then to decide whether or not they should take all Stages of that Bill, or whether to leave Committee Stage over untill the following Tuesday. I might issue a warning that, no matter which course is followed, it will be necessary for us to suspend the Standing Order we have made. It will be necessary to vote on the Second Stage tomorrow, whether or not Committee Stage is to follow immediately or on the following Tuesday.

We will take up the Committee Stage of the National Monuments (Amendment) Bill tomorrow. I would like to see that carried as far forward as possible. I will be asking the House to sit until 6 p.m. or 7 p.m. tomorrow to make as much advance as we can on that. On the other hand, if the National Monuments (Amendment) Bill finishes early, we could round off the debate on developments in Southern Africa.

In regard to next week, it is proposed that the House would sit on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. The position on Tuesday is that, if the Committee Stage of the Electoral (Special Voters) Bill had not been taken, it would be taken first thing on Tuesday in order to get it into the Dáil as soon as possible, because it is a Seanad Bill and has to be processed by the Dáil. We have already received the Building Societies (Amendment) Bill from the Dáil. I think it would be appropriate to go on then to discuss the Second Stage of the Building Societies (Amendment) Bill. I will know before the end of today whether or not the training Bill in regard to AnCO and CERT and similar bodies will pass all stages in the Dáil. That matter is not yet certain. If it does pass all stages we might perhaps take that at the end of Tuesday. As the programme stands at present, Wednesday would be largely devoted to the Report Stage of the Control of Clinical Trials Bill and any remaining part of the Committee Stage of the National Monuments (Amendment) Bill.

On Thursday 11 December it is proposed to take the Building Societies (Amendment) Bill in Committee and the training Bill in Committee. There will be a Bill introduced into this House — and I would like to thank the Government for it — in regard to the question of workers' participation. If there is any time left on Thursday the Second Stage of that might be commenced.

In the following week I think it will be necessary for us to sit on four days, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. It is anticipated that Tuesday and Wednesday would be devoted to discussion on the Single European Act. If we go without interruption on Tuesday, this will give us 7½ hours of debate and on Wednesday, if we go from 10.30 a.m. to 10 p.m., it will give us 11½ hours of debate. Two days may sound somewhat small but 19 hours is a considerable period of debating time.

It is proposed on the Thursday to take the Report Stage of the Status of Children Bill. I have pressing the Minister in regard to this to the extent of putting in writing my views that the amendments to this should be circulated as early as possible. Senators will need to determine their own positions having seen the Government amendments. My request was that the Government amendments should be circulated early this week in order to allow that Bill to be taken next week. My understanding is that the departmental decisions have been made in regard to this, but the final drafting of the amendments by the Parlimentary Draftsman have not been made.

One of my disappointments in planning has been that that Bill cannot be brought in next week. I have spoken not only to the Minister of State but to the Minister himself and, apart from confirming the attitude towards the Bill which the Minister of State took in this House, and which we all appreciated, he has indicated that he gives a very high priority to this Bill. The position is, unfortunately, despite my protestations, that the Dáil will discuss the Appropriation Bill with the Adjournment debate. This means that the Appropriation Bill will not pass Dáil Eireann until some time between 4 p.m. and 5 p.m. on Friday, 19 December.

This House then has the alternative of meeting on the Saturday morning, or meeting the following Monday, or meeting on the following Tuesday. I have had some consultations with members of the various groups. The general view seems to be that we should take our legislation that we have in hand, things like the Report Stage of the Air Pollution Bill and the Report Stage of the National Monuments (Amendment) Bill on that day, sitting through until 6 p.m. until we receive the Appropriation Bill, which must be enacted before the end of the year. We would then pass that Bill on the usual understanding that we would return in mid-January to debate it, either on 14 or 21 January. This is the programme as it appears to me at the moment. It will probably firm up slightly within the next 24 hours or so. If it does, I will circulate it to the representatives of the groups, but on the understanding that there may be further changes. I would be very glad to entertain any comments from any group or any individual Senator in regard to this programme.

I wish to ask is there any significance in the fact that the Leader of the House omitted the Extradition Bill from this programme? Is is not envisaged that the Seanad would consider that Bill?

I am in great difficulty. If the Extradition Bill is brought to us we will then have to discuss the matter whether there will be time on that last Friday.

The Leader of the House does not envisage that.

I am not in the business of envisaging.

I want to raise the question of the Extradition Bill. It appears to me that, irrespective of what happens in this House over the next seven working days, there is no way in which there will be an adequate amount of time to debate all the major issues before us. Do we have to finish this business before Christmas? I cannot see that we have to finish all this business before Christmas. Why not go along, as we have done before, and give adequate time to every piece of legislation. Is the Leader of the House suggesting that we may not come back after the Recess for further consideration of any of these issues? If the issue of extradition does come in, obviously it will throw this whole programme out of kilter.

There is obviously not enough time for the Committee Stages and Report Stages on these major Bills, which are technical Bills, as well as giving adequate time, particularly for the Single European Act, which has major implications for everybody and which is of major concern to more people in this country than perhaps is realised. There are groups speaking on this issue and sending in documentation on various issues that are involved. There are apparently 300 changes that can be made in our own legislation because of the implementation of this Single European Act. I am not saying whether we will be supporting it, proposing it or whatever, but irrespective of our attitude it is a major piece of legislation. Irrespective of the fact that the Leader has suggested that there would be 18 hours' debate I do not think for that legislation that is adequate time particularly in view of the fact that we may have the Extradition Bill coming in as well.

I wish to say, in supplement, that I confirm what I said before that I have no wish to curtail discussion. On the other hand, this House should realise that there have been a number of Bills introduced into this House. The Air Pollution Bill was introduced into this House last February. I think this House would not be doing itself credit as a House of the Oireachtas if it went into Adjournment this Christmas without completing that Bill. I have already indicated in regard to it that the Minister in charge is willing to take the Committee Stage of this Bill up to 11 p.m. tonight. I think we can get this business through. It may require late sittings but I think it is better that a late sitting should take place and that we should progress this legislation as much as we can. I would remind the Leader of the Opposition that, irrespective of what happens in another place, there is nothing to prevent us in the month of January from discussing legislation that is on our Order Paper.

Something happened last Wednesday which I should like to refer to. I had an Adjournment matter on Wednesday evening. I have come here today to apologise for any inconvenience I caused to the Cathaoirleach, all the Members of the House, the staff of the House and the Minister. I went to another function outside the precincts of the House, to which I had a prior commitment. I felt the House would have continued to do its work up to a certain time but when I arrived back the House was closed. I wish to apologise to the House.

Order of Business agreed to.
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