Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 25 Nov 1987

Vol. 117 No. 16

Death of Press Gallery Member. - Riar na hOibre.

Roimh Riar na hOibre, chuir tú fáilte roimh Lá na Gaeilge: cuidím leis, ach caithim a rá, don tríú uair sa Teach, cuireadh tímpeall chugainn Billí de gach sórt le seachtaíní anuas, ach ní raibh na téarmaí as Gaeilge in aon cheann acu, ní raibh sliocht Ghaeilge in aon cheann acu. Ní féidir aon Bhille a phlé go gcuirfear aistriúchán ar an mBille, aistriúchán ar théarmaí na mBillí. Is hypocrisy den céad scoth é go bhfuil muid anseo ag labhairt ar Lá na Gaeilge agus ag cur i gcéill go bhfuil tacaíocht againn don Ghaeilge nuair an rud is furasta dúinn a dhéanamh——

In fairness, you should have allowed the Leader of the House to speak first.

Tá sé molta go dtógfaimis Uimhir 2, 4, 3 agus 6.

Maraon le Seanator O'Toole, cuirim fáilte roimh Lá na Gaeilge, ach ní fiú linn lá mar seo nuair nach bhfuil aon tseirbhís aistriúcháin againn sa Teach seo, agus táim cinnte nach bhfuil ach b'fhéidir 25 faoin gcéad de na hiriseoirí atá anseo ábalta an méid atá mé ag rá anois a thuiscint. Tá sé mar a gcéanna mar gheall ar Baill an Tí. Ní cóir go mbeidh díomá ar éinne anseo nach bhfuil ábalta Gaeilge a labhairt, ach muna bhfuil seirbhís aistriúcháin mar atá sa Dáil, ní fiú dúinn bheith ag caint faoin Ghaeilge bheith dá úsáid anseo. Dá mba rud é go raibh seirbhís aistriúcháin ann d'fhéadfaí Gaeilge a usáid sa Teach seo. A fhad is nach bhfuil seirbhís aistriúcháin ann níl aon spreagadh dúinn agus, chun an fhirinne a rá, ní fiú dúinn mar ní thuig-fear sinn agus ní scríofar focal fúinn.

Ba mhaith liom eolas a fháil ón Cheannaire cé mhéad ama a bheidh againn san Seanad an Extradition Amendment Bill a phlé i gcóir na seachtaine seo chugainn?

Caithfidh me gearán a dhéanamh le Ceannaire an Tí ar an bpointe. Tháinig se chugainn tuairim is mí ó shin agus do chur sé i gcéill dúinn go raibh an-bhrú oibre orainn agus go raibh Bille i ndiaidh Bhille le teacht os ár gcomhair amach. Mar is cuimhin liom, dúirt sé go raibh suas le dosaen Billí le cur os ár gcomhair amach roimh an Nollaig. Táimid anois coicís nó, b'fhéidir, trí seachtain ina dhiaidh sin agus i rith na seachtaine seo nílimid ach ag teacht le chéile ach ar aon lá amháin. Níl sé sin sásúil. Ba mhaith liom a fháil amach ó Cheannaire an Tí cén fáth nach bhfuilimid ag tógáil an Adoption Bill, an Companies Bill, an Insurance Bill nó an reachtaíocht ar fad atá ós ár gcomhair amach. Níl sé sásúil. Níl aon riar in aon chor ar obair an Tí seo muna bhfuil an sórt sin oibre os ár gcomhair amach.

I hesitate to do so but I wish to repeat in English what I just said in Irish in case it has not been clear to everybody. We have heard about the amount of work that was coming before us. A month ago the Leader of the House told us there would be so much work that we would have to meet three days a week from then until Christmas, that we could not get through all the business, that there were up to 11 Bills waiting to be dealt with. We have now reached a stage where not only are those Bills not coming to us but the Committee Stages and the Report Stages of other Bills, notably the Adoption (No. 2) Bill, the Companies (No. 2) Bill and the Insurance Bill have not come back to us. It is disgraceful and it reflects badly on the House. It is the type of thing that gives an opportunity to those who criticise the House to come back at us. There is work to be done. Why is it not being done?

Cá bhfuil Uimhir 1? We were led to believe that the Insurance Bill would be taken today. I would like to ask the Leader of the House when the Insurance Bill is to be taken?

Os rud é nach raibh tú ábalta an Bille, the Prison Officers Compensation Bill, a thógaint ba mhaith liom ceist a chur ar an Seanadóir Lanigan an bhfuil aon phlean ag an Rialtas Bille a chur os ár gcomhair mar tá ceist na bpriosún an-phráinneach ag an noiméad. An bhféadfadh sé a insint dúinn an mbeimid in ár suí amárach?

In deference to the previous speeches of some of my colleagues who, if I understood them correctly, suggested that there was some difficulty about talking in Irish because of the absence of translation facilities, I will make my remarks in the second national tongue. I would like a ruling from the Leader of the House with regard to taking the Bill put down in the names of Senator O'Toole and myself which seeks to amend the 1987 Bill. This is a matter of considerable national importance particularly since this Bill was denied a reading in the lower House. It has been accepted in this House as a matter of national urgency that it should be taken. It should be taken before next week when the date of 1 December passes in order that these very serious and important matters should be discussed in this House.

On the Order of Business, I agree with the Senators who said go mba ceart go mbeadh gléas aistriúcháin anseo mar tá daoine anseo nach bhfuil an Ghaeilge go flúirseach acu. Bhí rún ós ár gcomhair go mba cheart go mbeadh gléas aistriúcháin againn. I ask again for the same translation system as they have in the Dáil. Dúirt an Seanadóir O'Shea go bhfuil an prison officers Bill práinneach. I had representations from the Prison Officers' Association. I contacted them on a number of occasions and each time I contacted them they said they did not have time to meet me. If the Bill is urgent I would suggest that they should meet me. I got a piece of literature from them eventually. I got in touch with that office on numerous occasions. They contacted me about the Bill, I got back to them but I have not been able to meet them. If it is urgent they should at least have the courage to come back to me, having contacted me in the first place.

An Bille a chuir Páirtí an Lucht Oibre isteach níorbh fhéidir leis an Cathaoirleach é a thógáil sa Seanad, mar bhain sé le hairgead. An bhfuil aon phlean ag an Rialtas Bille mar sin a thabhairt ós ár gcomhair? Aontaím leis an Ceannaire, ós rud é go ndearna sé roinnt iarrachtaí dul chun cainte leis na prison officers nach bhfuair sé an deis sin.

There is not at this stage any legislation coming before us of that nature. There is no hypocrsy or cur i gcéill, as Senator Ryan states, on this side of the House regarding the use of Irish. If anybody wants to use the Irish language or the English language in this House they are quite entitled to do so. There is no hypocrisy in stating that today because it is Lá na Gaeilge, people should use a bit more Irish. If Senators wish to use Irish on any other day they are quite entitled to do so.

I never said that.

We will be sitting next week. I do not accept the statements made that this House is not working to its maximum capacity. We will sit one day this week. We have got through quite a number of Bills in the House. I will exclude Senator O'Toole from the remarks I make on business we have put through the House. It is not our job on this side of the House to delay the putting through of Bills. If Bills go through faster than they would normally be expected to go through it is not our fault. The Status of Children Bill, Report Stage, will be taken next week. The Insurance Bill will be coming up within the next two weeks and the Adoption (No. 2) Bill will be before us. I would also like to remind the House that this Seanad has put through more Bills in the short number of months we had been sitting then any other Seanad has put through in any year. Since this was an election year that is something of which we should be proud.

December 16?

We are now at November 25. Senator O'Toole might want to go away for Christmas and he might not get the opportunity to go away.

We did not get a response to the question asked about the Extradition Bill. I got a guarantee from the Leader of the House last week that it would be taken on Thursday of this week.

Your point made. Suí síos.

I accept the point made by Senator O'Toole. Business in the other House has dictated that we are not taking that matter this week. It is not of my doing, and indeed, it is not of my party's doing. We will discuss that matter when it goes through the Dáil.

(Cur isteach.)

Ní beidh an Bille sin ós ár gcomhair go dtí go rithfear é sa Teach eile.

An bhfuil Riar na hOibre aontaithe?

Ba mhaith liom leasú a dhéanamh ar Riar na hOibre, go gcuirfear Uimhir 13 isteach in ionad Uimhir 6.

In English I am just going to ask you how many times are you going to stand up and ask questions?

A Chathaoirligh, I will answer that question when we finish this part of the business. A question was raised by one of the group. The question was not answered by the Leader of the House in his reply so I stood up and repeated the question. That was my third time standing. I am still not happy with this so I am now proposing an amendment to the Order of Business. As I understand it, that is quite in order and quite within Standing Orders. I am now proposing that Item No. 13 be taken today.

I would like to support the Senator very strongly because it seems to be a most extraordinary assertion from the Leader of the House that he must violate his undertaking because of business being conducted in the other House. Could I have a ruling on this? Is the business of this House to be dictated by the operations of the lower House?

Under the Constitution.

Under what section of the Constitution?

I wish to speak on this amendment which has been proposed by my colleagues Senators O'Toole and Norris. I happen to disagree profoundly with the amendment to the Bill which they put down but I also feel very strongly that a commitment was given by Senator Lanigan to discuss it.

That is not on the Order of Business.

There is an amendment proposed to the Order of Business so it is on the Order of Business. I beg to differ. I disagree strongly with them but I believe they have the right to have this discussed as promised by Senator Lanigan.

It has been proposed as an amendment to the Order of Business that Item No. 13 be included in the Order of Business.

That is correct. What I do not understand is why it should be taken over by the other House because this is a completely different matter. There is no guarantee that that Bill will be passed by the other House and then we will not have any chance to discuss extradition at all.

I am putting the question to the House. Senator O'Toole has moved an amendment to the Order of Business that Item No. 13 be included on the Order of Business. Is the amendment seconded?

I second it.

Is the delay on this matter not due to the fact that time has been granted to people who have requested further time to consider this important issue? Have the Government not granted the delay in order to be reasonable and to give time for consideration in the other House? Is that not the real reason we are not discussing this today?

It is not a question for me and I am putting the question as requested.

Question put: "That Item No. 13 be included in the Order of Business."

Senators

Vótáil.

Will Senators who are claiming a division on the Order of Business please rise?

Five or more Senators stood.

The division will proceed.

Question put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 7; Níl, 23.

  • Ferris, Michael.
  • Norris, David.
  • O'Shea, Brian.
  • O'Toole, Joe.
  • Robb, John D. A.
  • Ross, Shane P. N.
  • Ryan, Brendan.

Níl

  • Bohan, Edward Joseph.
  • Byrne, Sean.
  • Cullimore, Séamus.
  • Doherty, Michael.
  • Eogan, George.
  • Fallon, Sean.
  • Farrell, Willie.
  • Fitzgerald, Tom.
  • Fitzsimons, Jack.
  • Haughey, Seán F.
  • Hillery, Brian.
  • Kiely, Rory.
  • Lanigan, Mick.
  • Lydon, Donal.
  • McEllistrim, Tom.
  • McGowan, Patrick.
  • McKenna, Tony.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Mullooly, Brian.
  • O'Callaghan, Vivian.
  • O'Connor, Nicholas.
  • O'Toole, Martin J.
  • Ryan, William.
Tellers: Tá, Senators J. O'Toole and B. Ryan; Níl, Senators W. Ryan and S. Haughey.
Question declared lost.
Aontaíodh Riar na hOibre.

On a point of order could I ask for some information from the Leader of the House with regard to the precise section of the Constitution under which he maintains that this House is inhibited from discussing material because——

That is not a point of order.

It is a constitutional point which is perhaps more important. It appears as if the Leader of the House is inventing a Constitution of his own under which this House is being operated.

I have called Item No. 2.

Which Constitution are we operating under now?

There is only one.

Top
Share