It is intended to take Items Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 today. We will take Item No. 4 from 6.30 p.m. to 8 p.m.
Order of Business.
First, I am glad you have sorted out the matter of the division bells. As I understand it, the bells were turned off without any consultation with this House. We all shared in the embarrassment caused to Senator Cregan who is a most conscientious Senator and would never miss a vote if that were at all possible.
On the Order of Business, may I express the revulsion of my party at the massacre at Coagh yesterday. It makes the protestations of Mr. Gerry Adams and Sinn Féin ring very hollow indeed and I would like to express our sense of outrage at this gunning down of people yesterday.
On the Order of Business, may I also express the annoyance of this party at the fact that once again this week it is only a one-day sitting. We were told on the Order of Business last week that there would be work for two days this week but we now find that the House will not be sitting tomorrow. There are very many items on the Order Paper which could well be taken, in particular Item No. 25, in the name of the Leas-Chathaoirleach, on the ozone layer.
It was very difficult to us to look at the weekend at the prancing around of Mrs. Thatcher, a born-again environmentalist, when we see what she has done to the Irish Sea, to the North Sea, acid rain and so forth, while in this House we have a motion on the Order Paper for over a year which would give some indication of our Government's willingness to act on this matter——
Senator Manning, you are making your contribution now.
In view of the new sense of urgency on the subject, I ask that the Seanad meet tomorrow to take this motion on the ozone layer.
I appreciate that you allowed Senator Manning to express his revulsion at the killing of innocent people in County Tyrone and I am pleased you did that. I would like to join with him in expressing total revulsion at the slaughter of people up there. That is really doing nothing for this nation; it is setting us back light years as equal partners in Europe. I think that every reasonable person in the country has got to stand up at every opportunity and protest about it.
Senator McGowan and Senator Manning have been allowed to speak but really expressions of sympathy should not be allowed on the Order of Business. Under the Standing Orders of this House it is the Leader of the House who should move votes of sympathy but both of you have done it now, anyway.
I certainly will do my best — no doubt I will be guided by yourself — not to stray out of order. Perhaps the Leader of the House could be urged, when he replies, to make some reference to this tragedy that has darkened the land. I would certainly welcome an opportunity, if that could be provided, to make some suggestions which I made previously to the House that for this kind of crime the privilege of Irish citizenship should be removed from those convicted. However, I look forward to an appropriate opportunity to make that point in some greater detail.
I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he could give me some indication if there is an intention of taking Item No. 33 which deals with the conferring of honorary citizenship of Ireland on Raoul Wallenberg. This is a matter that has considerable interest in this country. I will be going to Budapest where Raoul Wallenberg disappeared and will be making this point there.
You may ask the Leader of the House if he is taking Item No. 33 but do not make a speech about it.
I would like to thank the Leader of the House for the information I received recently from him pertaining to Item No. 46 which has been most helpful to me. I shall pass it on to the various industrial concerns that have contacted me expressing some anxiety in the matter.
I know it is out of order, but I think it is appropriate on behalf of the Labour Party that I be identified with the expression of revulsion at what happened yesterday in the village of Coagh. It would be inappropriate if we did not associate ourselves with this condemnation and indeed the extending of sympathy to the families of the bereaved.
May I also ask the Leader of the House to use his good offices when he is in touch with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Lenihan, who has an interest in this area, to express the condemnation that I am sure most people would feel here about the Israeli attack by a bulldozer yesterday on an UNWRA health centre. This type of provocative violence by governments will have to stop particularly in the occupied territories. This Government and this country help to support UNWRA which is a United Nations relief agency.
Senator Ferris, I have an Order Paper in front of me and there is nothing about votes of sympathy or bulldozers on it.
I am not trying to bulldoze my way through this either but I am asking the Leader of the House to use his great influence and interest in this area to express at least my regret and my condemnation of the Israelis for what they have done.
While joining the Senators who have expressed concern and regret at the horrible incident in Northern Ireland yesterday I would like to raise another matter with which this House has been concerned recently, the matter concerning a small country far distant from here, that is Tibet. This House had a major and very constructive debate on the situation in Tibet. In his contribution on that motion on 1 February the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Seán Calleary, made specific reference to the fact that the Irish Ambassador in Beijing would be monitoring events——
We cannot have a long discussion on it. Perhaps the Senator will ask the Leader of the House a question and let him reply.
I was going to say that I think this is a matter on which the Seanad is on record as having expressed concern prior to the very serious events of the past few days. Many of us foresaw the possibility of the kind of loss of life and serious outbreak of violence in Lhasa and the Minister of State in his contribution to the debate, said:
Our Ambassador in Beijing will clearly monitor developments in Tibet and other parts of the territory of the People's Republic of China and report fully to us on them.
I am asking the Leader of the House on behalf of the Seanad — not on behalf of one or two individual Senators because there was a very broad measure of agreement at the end of the debate — to contact the Minister for Foreign Affairs and ask whether our ambassador is monitoring in Tibet what is happening. One of the great concerns is the closing-off of borders, the stopping of any reports out of Tibet——
We cannot have a further discussion.
I do not intend to abuse the goodwill of the Cathaoirleach in this matter but I think it is important that the Leader of the House, on behalf of the Seanad, would ask the Minister of State for a report from our ambassador. One of the matters asked for was that Ireland would intervene in the United Nations on behalf of Tibet.
The Senator is a long time here and she knows the rules on the Order of Business.
It may be of interest to the House to know that two countries, Canada and Holland, have intervened in the United Nations. So far as I know, Ireland has not. Notwithstanding the very strong views expressed by Senators, we need to be assured that we are taking a strong stand on this matter. I would appreciate it if the Leader of the House could make a formal representation to the Minister for Foreign Affairs on that matter.
On the same point, I do not intend to continue the debate but I will ask a direct question of the Leader of the House. In the light of the events of the past month and in the light of the Seanad debate on Tibet, does he not accept that it was quite irresponsible of the Government party not to allow any of their members to participate in and contribute to that debate a month ago? At that time a decision by the Government to intervene might well have led to the saving of life in Tibet over the past week or so. I think it was grossly irresponsible and I hope the Leader of the House will confirm that for me.
The Leader of the Fine Gael Party in the House raised the question of the one-day sitting again this week. This is the third week in a row that we have had a one-day sitting. I should like to put it on record — and I should like to get the response of the Leader of the House — that as far as I am concerned the Government party's lack of ability to structure a programme of work for two days per week and to structure the business of the House in such a way that it would work for at least two days a week, shows gross incompetence. It is an abrogation of responsibility and it is a gross waste of taxpayers money. What brings this House into disrepute is politicians working one day a week when the country expects to see them working throughout the week. I do not want to hear the stories about the work that is done outside the Chamber — we are well aware of that. I am making the point that it is unacceptable for the Government party to have us work only one day per week.
I would also remind the Leader of the House that on a number of occasions he has given commitments that Thursday would be used as a way of clearing the motions on the Order Paper. He gave that commitment to me, to members of the Independent group, members of the Fine Gael group, to Senator McGowan on a number of occasions when he raised the issue and he has given it to many others. I want to know how he can stand up here and blithely give commitments to us which are not fulfilled. He has given absolute commitments to Senator Manning and to me — this is a fair question on the Order of Business — to deal with the report on libel. He gave an absolute commitment to myself and to Senator Ryan that there would be a debate on the Middle East. He gave a commitment to myself that following the debate——
Senator O'Toole——
These are all on the Order Paper, every single one of them. He gave a commitment to myself that after the debate on Bord Telecom the report on the ESB, which is also on the Order Paper, would be debated. Every single one of these is on the Order Paper and on each one of them I received a commitment from the Leader of the House. We have now reached a stage where the commitment of the Leader of the House is something we cannot depend on. This inability to structure work over two days a week in a way that will have the House working efficiently and effectively is not good enough.
I think we should give the Leader of the House an opportunity to reply.
In replying he will no doubt attribute to me words which I have not said, as he normally does in this situation. I will indicate those to you——
There will not be an opportunity here; you will deal with it outside in some corridor.
——because you will be asking him to conclude and you will not allow me back in again — I am quite aware of that. Therefore, I ask you to allow me to make my point as I am on my feet.
You are doing that.
It is very difficult because I do not have long experience in the House. Finally, on the question of the motion on Tibet, we did agree to withdraw that motion on the basis that the Minister would take certain actions and would move in a certain direction. This he has failed to do. Would the Leader of the House also agree with me on that point, that the Government have failed to act on their commitment to that particular point?
I would like to support the call by Senator Manning that the House would order Item No. 25. The year 1987 was officially designated The Year of the Environment and towards the end of last year we tabled that motion to heighten the awareness of the damage being done through the destruction of the ozone layer. It is a pity the EC have lagged behind states like the US in taking any action. It is absolutely a fact that the EC had done nothing until the meeting was called in London last weekend, at which I was very happy to see our Government represented. It is time that we should at least be aware of it and I hope the House will order an early debate on Item No. 25.
I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he has got any information on Item No. 16, the Interpretation (Amendment) Bill, 1989. He indicated last week that he would have some information today.
During the last sitting of the Seanad I asked the Leader of the House if he was aware of the crisis in the bakery industry. He assured me that he would have a discussion with the Minister for Industry and Commerce with a view to having a debate in this House on the matter. I want to know the result of those discussions to date.
Before I call the Leader of the House to reply I want to say something to the whole Seanad because obviously Senators are not listening and do not know the rules and the Standing Orders. I have been in the Seanad since 1977 and I do not remember a Cathaoirleach ever before having this kind of long discussion on the Order of Business or having to take the length of time it has taken me to clear the Order of Business. There was between all parties a Whip system under which Whips talked to each other and did not bring everything to the floor of the House. I understand that everything that Senators say here is important but there was and is a system of participation in respect of the Order of Business outside the Chamber before we come into the House by which we settle what we will take for the day. I wish we could go back to that again rather than have this long debate on items some of which are certainly on the Order Paper. I wish there was more co-operation between the Whips before they come into the House.
There was always an opportunity for Members on the Opposition side of the House to ask questions. The Cathaoirleach was often in the House when Fianna Fáil asked the same kind of questions and I had to answer from that side of the House.
When I need Senator Ferris's advice and guidance I will ask for it.
On a point of order, do not misquote me. I was not giving the Cathaoirleach advice; I was putting the record straight because the Cathaoirleach had not put the record straight.
It is not a point of order.
It is a point of order to have the record right.
A number of points have been made. I did not realise when I was speaking to Senator Cregan last week that the point the Senator was making was a valid one. I thought that something had happened that I did not know about. In actual fact, something had happened that I did not know about; some people had taken it upon themselves to turn off the bells in certain rooms around the House. I did say I did not think what he said was correct. In the event, it was correct but there was nothing I could do about it. However, we did go and find out what had gone wrong and somebody had turned off the bells. As it happened, it did not make that much difference except that certain people might have been recorded as having been missing when they were around the House.
On the question of one day sittings, I said last week that we would be sitting two days this week and that we had sufficient business. In fact, through no fault of anybody else except myself, I decided a certain item would be taken tomorrow but as it turned out the matter cannot be taken tomorrow because of the absence of the Minister. I take total responsibility for the fact that we are not sitting tomorrow but I did not realise the Minister was going to be absent. The Whips got word about a particular item but, unfortunately, it had to be withdrawn.
However, the business for the next few weeks is fairly heavy and there is absolutely no doubt that we will be sitting on two days each week. We have the Judicial Separation and Family Law Reform Bill, Committee Stage; we have the Bord na gCapall (Dissolution) Bill, Second Stage; we have the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Bill, Second Stage; the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Bill, Committee Stage; the Jurisdiction of Courts (Maritime Conventions) Bill, 1988, Second Stage; and the Health Contributions (Yearly Reckonable Income) (Variation) Regulations, 1989, Item No. 11. We will have the Social Welfare Bill in the week before Easter. Senators can be assured they will be working in Holy Week.
A number of points have been made on Item No. 25. I accept it is a matter of grave importance, not alone to this House but to everybody in the country and I can assure the House there will be an early debate on it. I am surprised people have said it is on the Order Paper for over 12 months and that it has not come up. The people who suggest that it has not come up in 12 months had every opportunity to bring it up themselves during that period because they could have put it on their order of priority and if they did that the matter would have been dealt with.
Senator McDonald said that nothing has been done by the Government in this area, that the Government had not been cognisant of the fact that the ozone layer has been damaged and that they have done nothing. The Senator knows, as well as I do, that is not true and that the Government have made every effort over the past number of years and for the past two years in particular, to bring in environmental controls which are much stricter and more stringent than any environmental controls ever previously introduced. The Senator knows that in a number of areas laws have been introduced which will ensure that people who are in industries which have a deleterious effect on the ozone layer will be dealt with in a manner in which they would not have been dealt with, prior to this Government coming into office.
Senator Norris mentioned Item No. 33. There is no system in the country at present to confer honorary citizenship upon Raoul Wallenberg or anybody else. It is a matter that should be brought to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges of both Houses and the CPP of both Houses should discuss it.
The matter raised by Senator Ferris, the Israeli attack on UNWRA is something obviously that all of us in this House must condemn. It is the United Nations agency which has been working with refugees since 1947. It is disgraceful that a government should attack a hospital in the Jabilya Camp in Gaza City and, of course, we condemn it.
Senator O'Toole and Senator Robinson mentioned the Tibetan debate. Questions have been asked whether the Government have been monitoring what has been happening in that area. I can assure both Senators that the Government are monitoring that situation. I will have to check to see if there were particular suggestions made by the Minister of State as to what the ambassador should be doing while checking the situation and also if there were specific questions that had to be answered. However, I can guarantee that the Department of Foreign Affairs are cognisant of what is going on in that whole area.
Will there be a report from the ambassador?
If a report is requested from the ambassador, then the report will be brought before the House. As regards the question raised by Senator Fennell, I thought I would have had a reply from the parliament draftsman on that but I have not got it. As soon as I get the reply I will come back to the House with it.
Senator Hogan mentioned to me last week that he wanted a debate on bread prices. Again, because of various circumstances, I did not get a chance to speak to the Minister about the matter. I will do so as soon as possible. There may be a debate or there may not be a debate: I will come back to Senator Hogan on that one.
(Interruptions.)
Nobody in this House got up and supported the Crotty family when the Crotty bakery in Kilkenny closed some years ago.
Senator Ferris, Senator Manning, Senator Norris and Senator Robinson mentioned the depressing situation in the north of Ireland where, week after week, we have a repetition of the most horrific incidents, of death and destruction and tit-for-tat killings. This House has at all times condemned unreservedly any killing in the North of Ireland and indeed any killing that takes place in the name of Ireland by anybody. I join with my colleagues in once again sending our sympathy to the relatives of those killed in the North.
Order of Business agreed to.