It is proposed to take item No. 1.
Order of Business.
On the Order of Business, could the acting Leader of the House advise us as to the status of Item No. 2, which was so controversial on yesterday's Order of Business?
I would like to ask if there is any possibility that an early opportunity would be afforded to discuss item No. 40 in my name and that of Senators Ross and Bulbulia, which reads:
That Seanad Éireann regrets the apparent lack of courtesy with which the representative of the Dalai Lama, his Excellency Lhodi Gyani, was treated during his recent visit to Dublin.
It is a quite extraordinary matter and if there is not an indication I will have to attempt to move adjournment of the Seanad under Standing Order 29.
Did I understand the acting Leader of the House to say the Order of Business proposed is item No. 1 only? Is that correct?
That is correct.
I must ask what is the position about item No. 2? I understood this was to be discussed yesterday at the meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. What is the position now about what is going to happen on 10 May?
A Chathaoirligh, at the sitting on 12 April, you made a statement about the refurbished Chamber and the likelihood of an early opening and so on. You referred to 3 May, but you made no definite announcement about a date. I think one of the most extraordinary things about what is happening now in respect of all this, is that you have made no formal announcement to us about 10 May. There is nothing to indicate in our correspondence or otherwise that the Chamber is actually opening on 10 May. I think the least we could have had from you is a statement to that effect. What we want to know is, what is the position now about the televising of proceedings——
Senator, you cannot debate it now. I will make a statement next week as regards the opening of the Seanad.
Let me say that business was handled extremely badly yesterday, and I hope that Senator Joe O'Toole was not expelled in vain.
I would like to congratulate the acting Leader of the House on being able to order item No. 1 on the agenda first today.
It is a very cynical point.
I listened last night to the radio broadcast of this House on RTE. The image that was portrayed of this House last night — there is a precedent for talking about this on the Order of Business but I will be very brief — was extremely bad, to which perhaps we all contributed. The important thing is the tone and the order which is led by the Government. The Government, unfortunately, did something yesterday which caused a rumpus because it was unprecedented and because the Leader of the House said quite simply — and it was on RTE last night —"the Order of Business is as I order it". I am asking what is the point of printing an Order Paper at all?
Senator Ross, we cannot go through yesterday's proceedings again this morning.
I am asking a completely new question. I am asking what is the point of printing an Order Paper if it is utterly irrelevant to what we are discussing that day? It seems to me to be a waste of public money to go through these procedures if we are not actually going to get any guidance in advance of what we are discussing.
Finally, a Chathaoirligh, I understood the House would at least to be given an explanation, either today or yesterday, for yesterday's appalling conduct and the switching around. It appears that once again we are not getting an explanation for the fact that we are not discussing item No. 2 today. We deserve at least to be given reasons.
I want to ask you something, a Chathaoirligh. You are quite right in saying that many issues are raised on the Order of Business that perhaps should not be raised on it but should be raised through the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. What I would like to know is whether you, the Leader of the House or anyone else, will assure me that there is a reason why I should take the Committee on Procedure and Privileges seriously any more, given recent events.
Hear, hear.
I prefer to operate within the rules of this House. I believe I have a good record of operating within the rules of this House. I know well how to use the rules of the House to do things which I wish to do. It seems to me that one of the reasons hosts of issues arise on the Order of Business is that the rules of this House are seriously deficient in allowing Members to discuss in a proper, ordered and regular fashion things that cause them considerable annoyance.
I appeal to you, as the person who is given the very serious job of looking after the dignity and proper running of this House, to assist those of us who want to make this House a successful House, in making that happen. Yesterday's events, and indeed a number of other rows, do not do that and give none of us any pleasure. Therefore, I appeal again that the Committee on Procedure and Privileges be allowed to deal with issues, like the matter of allocation of space in this House, which has become very serious and contentious recently.
That does not arise now.
I am well aware it does not arise. I wish to see that it is dealt with by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, where it should be dealt with in private and without a row. I have waited six months for something which I raised in this House and which you said would be discussed in the Committee on Procedure and Privileges——
First, you have a very good representative on the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. Secondly, I am here since 1977, I never remember a Cathaoirleach or any party meeting with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges every week to try to help — or you may prefer to say to use "my role"— to try to make this House work. Every week we have a meeting and I never remember a Cathaoirleach agreeing to that before. They just did not agree to having a meeting with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges every week. I am not going to discuss the Committee on Procedure and Privileges any further, I regret what is happening here. I have been Cathaoirleach for two years and I have tried to make this House work above party politics. I have held meetings of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges at the request of individual Members to try to get their problem solved. I have tried to make the Seanad work on the floor. Yesterday I was not getting co-operation and I had just arrived at the stage where I had had enough.
With regard to item No. 2, a decision will be made on it on next Wednesday. Senator Ross asked what is the point of printing the Order Paper? All Senators know that the Order Paper has often had to be changed. We draw up the Order Paper one week in advance but it is sometimes necessary to make changes, and Senator Ross knows that. Senator Norris raised item No. 40. I will have to speak to the Minister for Foreign Affairs about that.
I am sorry, I cannot hear what the acting Leader of the House is saying and there is an enormous amount of noise next door as well which makes it even more difficult.
I did not hear what is going to happen next Wednesday. Is there something wrong with Senator Ryan's microphone? What is going to happen next Wednesday?
I said that item No. 2 will be discussed next Wednesday.
Is there a solid commitment that item No. 2 will be taken next Wednesday?
When Senator Willie Ryan says something he means it. Is the Order of Business agreed?
With the greatest respect, Senator Ryan, acting Leader of the House, was commencing to give me an answer. Really, it is impossible to operate seriously within the rules of the House if, when the acting Leader of the House is interrupted and returns to a previous question and does not conclude what he was beginning to say about my query, I am then not allowed to ask questions.
I think Senator Ryan answered you. He said he would talk to the Minister about your request.
Order of Business agreed to.