I am speaking on behalf of five Fine Gael Senators from the midwest who have a very deep concern for the status of Seanad Éireann. In view of the fact that you, unfortunately, have taken a public stand on behalf of Knock Airport, I believe you have left us with no option but to insist on the queries that have been put to you being answered.
Order of Business (Resumed).
I have made a ruling in that regard and I am prepared to discuss any matter that is of concern to Senators outside the House in my office if that is considered necessary. I am prepared to respond in that way to the Senator and any other Senator, but I am not prepared to alter the ruling I have already made.
I would have to ask that the response——
I have given the Senator my response.
The Cathaoirleach is well aware of how sensitive this issue is, and of the concern of the people in the midwest with regard to the status of Shannon Airport. Nonetheless, the Cathaoirleach has gone on public record as being in favour of a policy that would be damaging to the airport.
I cannot allow the Senator to make a speech. I am asking him to respect the ruling I have made in the circumstances.
I want to stress I am speaking on behalf of Senators Kennedy, Hourigan, Jackman and Neville.
I have made a ruling in relation to the involvement of the Cathaoirleach in the proceedings of this House and I must abide by that. I am prepared to discuss any matters of concern with individual Senators in my office at any time.
You are very conscious of how the matter has developed here today and it has developed as a result of your public statement. You could easily have clarified it and defused the situation.
I am not going to create or establish precedents that would not be beneficial to the proper order of this House.
I think that is the root of the problem.
I am not going to do that, Senator. I have given you the reasons and I have made a ruling in that regard. I have also given you an indication that, if you so wish, you may discuss your problem in my office.
I would like to respond by saying, I invite you to give the clarification from your position here today.
I have given my ruling in the matter and, as far as I am concerned, at this point the matter has been concluded.
I am afraid——
The Senator is already in serious confrontation with the Chair and I would ask him not to persist.
I realise that, but I am not the author of the confrontation.
I do not know what the Senator is suggesting by that, but I am pointing out the position to the Senator. The ruling has been made, the invitation has been offered and I request the Senator to adhere to that.
I am afraid I have to insist that the clarification comes from the Chair today.
The Chair has no intention of establishing a precedent here where he is going to get involved in the debate of the House.
In view of the fact that we have spent one hour discussing the Order of Business, I formally propose that it be put to the House.
Absolutely no way. There is an important matter to be clarified here.
I am going to ask the Senator to resume his seat.
I am going to insist on getting a reply to a very reasonable request.
I am going to ask the Senator to resume his seat.
Would you please answer the questions that are being put to you?
If this is going to continue I will have to adjourn the House.
Sitting suspended at 3.30 p.m. and resumed at 4.30 p.m.
I have met with the leaders of the various political groupings in the House. I have indicated the position of the Cathaoirleach to them in this regard and I have also indicated to them that I am prepared to circulate to the Members of the House the communication I gave to them so that everybody will have a clear understanding of the position.
May I thank you for having called together the leaders of the various groups. I should inform the House that we had a very full discussion of the issues involved. It would have been my preference if the Cathaoirleach had felt himself to be in a position to elaborate fully on the particular reasons he put forward to us in the House but he feels that it is not proper for the Cathaoirleach to discuss questions of the Cathaoirleach in the House. I accept that is a position which he holds very strongly and which he is advised is the correct position.
I am happy that the full statement which he has made to us, which outlines his position, will be circulated to all Members of the House. The issues involved are reasonably serious and they are also fairly straightforward. It would be wise if the Members of the House, upon receipt of this statement reflected on the issues involved and discussed it in their various groups. If they are happy with the position, as I suspect most people probably will be then the matter can rest. If not, there are appropriate channels through which any outstanding issues can be addressed.
I would just like to thank the Cathaoirleach for his courtesy. We have been over the issue in the past hour. Unfortunately, it is my view that the issue which was raised by Members of the House in good faith, seeking an explanation for something that was not covered by Standing Orders, though there is precedent as you outlined, should be clarified in the House. That remains my position. We feel it should be cleared at some stage but it should be cleared in the House. We look for some indication from you, a Chathaoirligh that that can be done in the near future.
Since it was I who in a sense precipitated this I would like, with your indulgence, to make some comments if I may upon it. I raised the three matters in good faith because I felt it was a very important issue of principle which I would like to have been decided. From the tone of your remarks, a Chathaoirligh, and their content I understood that you were ruling on a point of order and it appeared then that that was not the case. You subsequently expelled two of my colleagues and I feel it would be pusillanimous of me not to register a protest at that but in order that——
I am not going to allow you to continue in protest on a matter that has been decided by this House.
As I say, it is not my intention to be awkward. I have dared to be so because I take——
I am not going to allow you to be.
In that case I am afraid we do have a situation of confrontation because the situation that I brought to the attention of the House was one of considerable importance to the democratic process. Two of my colleagues have been expelled.
Senator I am going to ask you to resume your seat.
My tone was most reasonable as I commenced this contribution but your rebukes to me are not so reasonable.
I am asking the Senator to resume his seat.
It is noticeable that there is a substantial difference of tone between the way in which you addressed the Leader of the Opposition and the way in which you addressed the Independent Members. This is something I deplore.
I am asking the Senator to resume his seat.
I was speaking about the question of the impartiality of the Chair.
I am asking you to resume your seat, Senator.
I reserve the right to bring this up again tomorrow.
May I offer, through you, my congratulations to Senators for their good taste, namely, Senator Tras Honan and my colleague Senator McDonald, on the selection of the beautiful lights that complete the interior decoration of this Chamber. The really set off the Chamber.
Thank you. Senator Lanigan to reply on the Order of Business.
A number of items have been revised on the Order of Business and there were comments passed in regard to the Business of the House. There were arrangements made here in the last session that the Whips of each party would meet on a Thursday on a formal basis and that the business for the following week would be arranged. I thought that would happen and that is why I did not mention the business that would be coming before the House in the next few weeks. I sincerely hope that that meeting will take place tomorrow morning.
The following are the Bills we will be dealing with: the Derelict Sites Bill, the Marine Institute Bill; the Horse Breeding Bill, the Building Control Bill. The Minister for Tourism and Transport will be introducing the Bill dealing with the international carriage and goods by road. The Minister for Health will introduce an amendment to the Control of Clinical Trials Bill in this House. The Presidential Election Bill, 1990, will be introduced in this House in the next few weeks. I am making those remarks by way of telling the House that there is plenty of business but I will leave it to the Whips to arrange what business is on the Order Paper for next week.
Can you guarantee that?
The Whips will be meeting tomorrow morning. It is the Whips who will sort out the Order of Business for next week and everybody will be circulated with the Order of Business possibly there may be clarification as to which Bills will be coming forward the following week.
I dtaobh a bhí le rá ag an Seanadóir Pól Ó Foighil, is oth liom a rá nach bhfuil aon fhreagra agam i dtaobh an ghléas áistriúcháin. Caithfidh mé ceist a chur ar an Rialtas ina thaobh sin.
If Senator Brendan Ryan wants to bring in a motion in connection with AIB he is quite in order to do so by way of notice of motion. Items Nos. 57, 58 and 59 are on the Order Paper. If the Independent group wish to bring them forward in their time, that is there business. We will not be taking Item No. 12. The Government have given a guarantee that this legislation will be introduced in the near future and I accept that will happen.
The Marine Institute Bill has been mentioned by Senator Murphy. Pending what happens with the Whips, I presume that Bill will be coming to the House next week. As far as a debate on health is concerned, again, it is up to Fine Gael to bring that forward if they wish as a notice of motion. Item No. 30 is an item on the Order Paper which the Senator can bring forward with his group if he wants to by way of giving it priority. It is up to them to give whatever priority they wish to their own Private Members' Bills.
In regard to the Interpretation Bill, I was in touch again with the parliamentary draftsman on this matter. I have not got a satisfactory answer to that yet. If the Senator keeps asking me I am sure that we will get a satisfactory conclusion to that question in the very near future. I do not think there was any other question raised.
The Leader of the House has replied. I am not taking any other contributions.
Item No. 13——
The Senator is being disruptive again. I ask him to resume his seat.
I was promised a reply about Item No. 13.
I have no control over the reply of the Leader of the House. The Leader of the House has replied. I am satisfied that that is the position. I am now moving on to take the amendment in the name of Senator Joe O'Toole.
I think on the Order of Business I am entitled to reply.
The Order of Business has been concluded. A reply has been given. I am ruling that is the situation. I understand Senator O'Toole has an amendment to the Order of Business.
I move: "That Item No. 12 be inserted after Item No. 15."
Is the amendment being pressed?
If the Leader of the House would give me some indication when the abolition of capital punishment Bill will be brought in by the Government in terms of a date, I will not press my amendment.
Is the amendment being pressed?
If I do not get a reply, it is. I would prefer to get a reply from the Leader of the House as to when it might be dealt with.
Is the amendment being pressed, or is it not being pressed? That is the question.
I will see the Taoiseach on that matter later on today and will convey the answer of the Government to the Senator. Again, Item No. 13 is not a matter for the Government. It is a matter for the Independents if they want to bring that forward as a motion.
In that case I will not be pressing the matter today.
Order of Business agreed to.