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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 Jul 1990

Vol. 126 No. 4

Farm Incomes: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Senator Naughten on Wednesday, 11 July 1990:
That Seanad Éireann calls on the Government to—
(1) recognise the serious income crisis affecting thousands of Irish farmers,
(2) implement measures to alleviate the present income crisis in the areas of beef, store cattle, sheep, milk and cereals.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Seanad Éireann" and substitute the following:
"recognises the major improvement in farm incomes since 1986 and commends the Government for the measures which have been taken during 1990 to maintain farm incomes in the face of the more unfavourable market conditions which prevail at present."
—(Senator Hussey.)

I will resume where I left off last week. The point needs to be made that there is no need to get into a debate about what happened to farm prices this year. As we are all aware the trend in recent months for all products has been pretty well in the wrong direction.

I wish to stress the profound significance of GATT for this country. It is the most important agricultural agreement reached since we joined the Community. I was very pleased that after the G7 meeting in Houston last week, Commissioner MacSharry took a very positive stand in defence of the Common Agricultural Policy. I hope the Government will be successful in putting forward to the Commission the significance we attach to the GATT talks.

One of the items discussed at the meeting in Houston which was given prominence was the agreement to make substantial progressive reductions in agricultural support. This agreement was represented as almost something new, which, of course, it is not. As far back as the mid-term review in April 1989, the European Community accepted that substantial progressive reductions in agricultural support, protection sustained over an agreed period, resulting in correcting and preventing restrictions and distortions in world agricultural trade, would be the norm. The Community's position has not changed despite what has been represented in public.

One of the issues of concern to me because I am a cereal grower is the question of cereal substitutes which must be dealt with under the GATT. We have just begun what I hope will be a very successful harvest. The yield indicators are very good, and if the weather stays good please God we will have a good harvest. One of the major irritants to Irish cereal growers is that they have to pay more than £6 a tonne in a co-responsibility levy when at the same time 18 million tonnes of cereal substitutes from a subsidised ethanol industry in the United States can enter the Community without restriction. It is quite legitimate for growers to be very aggrieved about having to pay a tax for what is perceived to be surplus production when American cereal substitutes can enter the Community without penalty. I hope this matter will be dealt with in the GATT round which will be concluded before the end of the year.

The price of lamb and sheep meat has been dealt with already. I share the concern of farmers, and other Members of the House, about the market for sheep. As somebody in my part of the country said, it has got to the stage where sheep are like rabbits before myxomatosis, they are everywhere. It was right to encourage farmers to get into sheep production. They are faced with marketing difficulties now but at the time it was the right decision.

The other question which needs to be addressed is winter fattening. I am a member of a discussion group of 12 farmers and almost everyone of them built slatted beef units in the early seventies. Nearly all of those slatted units are now empty because of the very bad margins in winter fattening. It is a terrible waste of national resources to build facilities and then not to use them. I hope that something can be done about this issue at EC level.

In relation to the initiatives which the Government might take to improve farm incomes, the reality is that the play is in Brussels for most of the time. The Minister, and previous Ministers of all Governments have done their utmost at Brussels level to safeguard and protect the interests of Irish farmers. They have done that quite successfully most of the time but the action they can take is restricted in some respects.

One thing which needs to be encouraged is rural development. There have been some developments in this area as a result of the 1987 document produced by the Commission. There is, and there will be, substantial aid available for initiatives in rural development. I say in all sincerity to the Department of Agriculture and Food that they must not try to control that initiative; they must participate in it. The centre in UCG and the local effort involved in this must be encouraged and given the full support of the Department. I know the Minister will agree with me on this point. Traditionally farming was equated with rural development but, of course, there is much more to rural development than just farming.

I am concerned at the trend within the Common Agricultural Policy to move to a system of income support. Of course, this is something that GATT will accommodate because they do not mind if we have income support rather than price support but our capacity as a country to afford a system of income support, where we would have to rely on a certain amount of our domestic resources, is very limited. The core of the Common Agricultural Policy must be kept in place. The Minister announced the members of Bord Glas today and he was here when we debated the Bill establishing that body and he must be aware of the huge opportunities for horticulture.

Intervention has been a very significant part of our price support system. One of the deficiencies of intervention is that it has been a first processors price and in a sense is a licence to avoid marketing. My message above all else is that we need to be more marketing orientated. The Government must lend their support to initiatives which will improve farm incomes.

We are debating this motion at a very opportune time. If what I heard in the restaurant a few minutes ago is correct, farm incomes in general will decline by 25 per cent this year and the incomes of dairy farmers will decline by 30 per cent. I understand those Teagasc figures have just been published. This raises the question: did Teagasc organise the publication of these figures to coincide with this debate, was this debate organised to coincide with the publication of the Teagasc figures or — I see the Minister is smiling — was it entirely coincidental? My guess is that it happens to be a coincidence, but a very appropriate one.

There are a number of problems in relation to farm incomes which those figures spell out in fairly stark and clear terms. These problems are going to hit certain elements of the farming community to a far greater extent than others. In particular, they will hit the small farmers. Of course, the Labour Party are very concerned about the welfare of small farmers. These problems are also going to hit non-dairy farmers because, traditionally, incomes of non-dairy farmers have been considerably lower than the incomes of farmers in the dairying sector. To be realistic about it, there will be a very substantial reduction in the incomes of dairy farmers who, relatively speaking, have been doing very well in recent times.

The incomes of farmers in 1989 tended to remain nominally static which I suppose means that there was a real decline in the value of farmers' incomes in 1989 equivalent to the rate of inflation which was of the order of 3 to 4 per cent. If what I have heard is correct, farm incomes in general will decline by 25 per cent this year while the incomes of dairy farmers will decline by 30 per cent. That is stunning and anyone who meets farmers even to the extent that I do, is aware that all is not well in relation to their incomes. There was a very perceptible decline even allowing for the fact that farmers always tended to over-state their problems.

Three initiatives should be taken first, there should be direct income aid for poorer farmers; second, there should be an increase in headage payments for farmers in disadvantaged areas and, third, the Government should use all their influence to speed up the reclassification of the disadvantaged areas so that more areas would be designated as disadvantaged and the areas of differing levels of disadvantage would be increased for the benefit of farmers who are now badly hit. I am particularly anxious that some initiative should be taken in relation to direct income aid for farmers on low incomes. It is ridiculous that to a large extent EC aid has helped all farmers on the basis of output. There are variations but, generally speaking, that is the case. I strongly urge the Government to use their influence to modify that; there is considerable scope even under the present regulations for doing so.

Under present EC law it is possible for the Government to introduce direct income aids and I would be very anxious that that would be done. It is of fundamental importance to take that initiative. I say this because of my own experience and because of a discussion I had with a very good friend and party colleague of mine, Councillor Jimmy Townsend. Some people may think there are no farmers in the Labour Party, but Jimmy Townsend is a very successful and efficient smallish farmer in County Carlow and a Labour Party county councillor. To some extent I got this idea from him. I have tried to investigate what can be done and I understand it is possible that an initiative can be taken under the present legislation.

I strongly urge an increased headage payment. The headage system of payment is primarily designed to aid small farmers on low incomes. At present, under existing EC law, it is possible to have as much as a 30 per cent increase in the maximum amounts permitted in headage payments. Again, I urge the Minister to consider taking some initiatives under that heading.

I propose that the Government use their influence in the European Community to speed up the reclassification of disadvantaged areas. It is very important that that is done because it is expected that the total area now designated as disadvantaged will be increased and that the areas of differing levels of disadvantage will also be increased, to this country's benefit. It is very important that every influence is used by the Government to try to speed things in Brussels so that the new system of classification could be introduced this year or very early next year.

There are a number of broad comments I want to make. I accept that there has been a very serious reduction in the beef sector. These affect people in varying degrees, particularly in relation to the size of their beef holding. Many beef farmers run their small holdings inefficiently. There are all sorts of problems in relation to beef and I will refer briefly to two of them. First, there is something of a drift from the consumption of animal products in general, particularly in the case of meat. The numbers of vegetarians in the population has been increasing in Ireland and worldwide. It would be unrealistic to expect it to change.

Second there is the problem of bovine spongiform encephalopathy and its effects on the market. We need to adequately and honestly face up to the implications of this disease and to the very small possibility that it may be transmissible to humans. We cannot rule that out and there is no point in making sweeping generalisations about things being technically safe and so on.

Having said that, I fully accept that the risks are minimal. There are risks attached to pretty well every form of human endeavour but it is very important that we get this right and that we face up to what is involved because what happens will have an impact on our capacity to change. What will come from Europe will be minimal, we do not have the research capacity to influence ideas or to modify to any serious extent the influence from the United Kingdom, the United States or the European Community. It is on that basis that we should approach the matter instead of always reassuring ourselves that there is no problem and so on. We should look at it, consider it and act accordingly. I hope everybody will have the maturity to act in a responsible manner in relation to that.

I outlined earlier the extent of the decline in dairy farmers' incomes which ultimately are related to the fall in the consumption of dairy products. All this will put the quota system under threat. At present there is far too much butter moving into intervention, which in turn will create its own pressures. If the trend continues and if the present realities remain it is inevitable that we will see a reduction in quotas. If not, there will be a reduction in price, and that is the old dilemma which has been analysed in this country for a number of years. The general consensus primarily emanated from Professor Sheehy of UCD who was one of the first people to come down in favour of the idea of quotas.

A good Tipperary man.

Indeed, some of them are good. There is no doubt about that. Professor Sheehy is a very good example. The general consensus in the agricultural economic world is that quotas are the best thing for us but we are facing the possibility of reductions if the trends do not——

Professor Sheehy is from Reagan country in Ballyporeen.

I did not realise that Mr. Reagan was from Tipperary, but you can always learn something new. I heard that he had a pub down there.

One of the problems relating to dairy produce is the fall-off in consumption which arises because of a trend in nutrition, health and so on. There is a perception that dairy products are not desirable at the levels at which they are being consumed. There has been a move away from them in the marketplace. Over the years we have tended to resist this, to say it is wrong and so on. In 1976 when I was more conscious of nutrition than I am now, a headline in a newspaper said that dairy products had a clean bill of health. Maybe they had, but, the consumption of butter dropped dramatically. The consumption of butter here will be determined primarily by forces from outside this country. We have a very limited capacity to modify or to resist those forces. We should take them and make the best of them instead of saying they are wrong or sticking our heads in the sands. I am concerned that this may, to some extent, be happening in relation to the BSE problem. We should try to make the best of it instead of pretending it does not exist and making sweeping statements which sooner or later will catch up with us.

It is imperative to get the marketing side of agriculture right. I am referring to high quality levels, developing new products and branded Irish products which will have the loyalty of the consumer right across Europe and the world at large.

One of the great failures of the Irish food industry, again illustrated recently in relation to meat in Britain, was that we could not get branded Irish meat to gain the market advantage that comes from the perception of it being produced here in healthy, clean conditions. It was sold under the name of Sainsburys or Marks & Spencer or however it sells over there. We cannot get our branded products straight to the consumer. Let me hasten to say that I realise that to do that is extremely expensive and time consuming. However, I urge the food industry strongly to try to increase its scale of production. Otherwise we will not make any progress. We are talking here of fundamental changes in the dairy industry in particular. I suppose we are talking about one co-operative in Munster; Golden Vale, Ballyclough, Mitchelstown — and I am probably leaving out Kerry — will all have to come together. That applies also to the beef industry. The great failure with beef is our inability to get consumer-ready products. It has gone on and on and the way things have developed would drive one to despair.

In America President Bush seems to have come out of the GATT talks quite happy. I was glad to hear Senator Dardis say that effectively nothing much has been decided, but the impression has been created that there are going to be changes which will have an enormous impact on this country. In approximate terms this country gains to the extent of £1 billion net from the EC but that could be put at risk as a result of the GATT. I do not think most people in this country realise the significance of that. I must say that in recent times the farming community seem to be getting the message but I do not think the general public realise it. It will affect all of us. It is very important that at EC level we get our act together and use what influence we have to see that our interests are protected. In my view our interests are best served by getting that money into the country. I have radically different views from those of most of my colleagues on this side of the House and on the other side as to how that money will subsequently be worked through the economy. It is essential that the money be got here and once we get it we can hope to strike some reasonable balance as to how it should be used. We in the Labour Party have considerably different views on that matter from those of the other parties represented here.

I support the amendment so ably moved by my colleague, Senator Tom Hussey. Senator Upton mentioned the GATT negotiations. I agree with him that we need to unite on this.

I was disappointed to read last week, in the Irish Independent of 11 July, that the former EC Commissioner, Mr. Peter Sutherland, one of the best Commissioners we have had who did an excellent job for the country while he was Commissioner, stated at a meeting of the 15 members of the “Eminent Persons Group on World Trade”, that he was in favour of phasing out subsidies on food. He was quoted in the paper as saying he would advocate the phasing out of agricultural subsidies. I was sorry to hear that statement from such an important person, especially at this time. I appeal to the Fine Gael Party who have this motion down here this evening to clarify the position because I am sure note will be taken of his statement in other places in and outside the EC.

We are facing a tough period in those negotiations, and I wish our Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Michael O'Kennedy, and our Commissioner Ray MacSharry every success. I am sure they will fight a tough battle to see to it that the CAP is not only not tampered with but improved to protect the family farm, because if anything happens there this country will be in serious trouble.

We have our problems but they did not happen overnight. Many things have happened in the cattle trade, particularly in recent months with "mad cow disease". I sometimes wonder whether we have had a touch of it here in this Chamber and in the other Chamber in the past couple of months in view of the carry on. Tuesday's papers stated that the demand for beef has dropped by 10 per cent due to consumer resistance. That augurs badly for the Irish farmer and we hope that scare will disappear. I compliment the Minister who stayed up all night some weeks ago to try to sort out that matter with the Commission. He was very successful.

All is not gloom. I see also in Tuesday's paper that 1992 will be a boom year for dairy products according to a group of economists who have carried out a survey on dairy products. We hope that boom will come. The price of milk has dropped and the sheep industry is in trouble, but that again is due to quantities in the EC and could not be foreseen. However, more could be done by CBF to market our lamb. Something could be done also in the breeding area. In the past few years insufficient attention was paid to the type of ewe or to breeding for which headage payments were made. As a result the carcasses are not up to standard. More attention should be paid to that matter.

Commissioner MacSharry has the full support of the Council of Ministers in the GATT negotiations, as stated in the Irish Farmers Journal, and we wish him well. The Fine Gael Party have tabled this motion of no confidence in Fianna Fáil's agriculture policy. Five years ago the then Minister and Minister of State had a great deal to say about the severely handicapped and disadvantaged areas. There was ballyhoo from Cork to Donegal about it; meetings were held and promises were made before the 1987 general election. The scheme sent to Brussels was thrown back in our faces, much valuable time was wasted and hundreds of millions of pounds were lost to the economy and to the farmers. The Minister, Deputy O'Kennedy, and his Minister of State, Deputy Kirk, and the rest of the cabinet had to take up the cudgel and get down to business and get a proper scheme to present to Brussels. We are all pleased the scheme has been presented and we are hopeful of the outcome. It will mean a boost to family farm incomes and I believe vast areas will be redesignated severely handicapped. Areas will be slotted into different categories which I do not want to detail at the moment.

One could go on and on about farming. Twenty years ago or more the subsidy on ground limestone was greatly appreciated by farmers. It helped not alone the dairy farmer and all other farmers, but particularly the grain farmer. The Minister should try to get some assistance from Brussels to reintroduce that subsidy. It would encourage people to improve the fertility of their holdings bringing greater production. In the future, particularly in grain, competition will be very keen.

I hope in the near future the EC will do something about the dumping of low cost feed material which has created problems for us. We have very high quality barley and feed wheat but the quality of products from outside the EC is very low. There is a problem with New Zealand lamb which affects the lamb trade. All those areas should be examined as soon as possible.

The Minister has done a good job handling many serious matters during the last three years. He stood up to it well; he worked night and day with his team and I have every confidence that with a united home front, he will succeed in the GATT negotiations.

I would like to share my time now with Senator Rory Kiely.

The Senator should have notified me at the beginning of his speech. I have three Senators offering.

How much time have I left? I can continue.

Acting Chairman

No. I would be glad if the Senator would conclude now and perhaps we can get the agreement of the three Senators offering to divide the remainder of the time.

You will not allow Senator Kiely in?

Acting Chairman

I will. He is one of the three Senators offering. I would like agreement so that Senator Neville can talk for about 7½ minutes, Senators Jackman and Kiely can have 7½ minutes each and the Minister will get in at 7.25 p.m. Is that agreed? Agreed. I am allocating from 7.25 p.m. to the Minister and the Fine Gael speaker to conclude at 7.45 p.m. Do I have agreement of the three Senators to share the remaining time? Is that agreed? Agreed.

I support this motion which is being taken at a time when farming is in crisis. Agriculture is under threat, and the economy is under threat. This motion is as important as any Bill that has been taken this week. We had a lot of discussion on the Pensions Bill and on the Broadcasting Bill and tomorrow we will talk on the Insurance Bill but this motion is as important as those Bills and it is time people realised it.

Agriculture constitutes 10½ per cent of GNP. If the American proposals in relation to CAP are carried through over the next few years our economy will be devastated. I cannot understand how Fianna Fáil feel there is no crisis in farm incomes when it has been revealed that this year farm incomes are down by 25 per cent, dairy farm incomes are down by 30 per cent and beef is down by £100 per head on last year's prices. Dairy farmers are taking £300 less per cow and cereal farmers are in a disastrous situation. Calves are realising £100 less than they did last year. The situation is serious. It should be recognised that there is an incomes crisis.

Senator Byrne referred to the disadvantaged areas and mentioned the last extension to disadvantaged areas. In 1985, Deputy Austin Deasy, as Minister for Agriculture, and Deputy Connaughton, as Minister of State, announced the biggest extension ever to the disadvantaged areas scheme, including in it 5,000 extra farmers; this compares with 3,000 in 1979. In 1986, the then Minister, Deputy Deasy, doubled the headage scheme payment because of the severe weather and put £13 million into fodder vouchers. These two measures cost £20 million. If that amount was now available there would not be any problem with the decision to extend the disadvantaged areas.

Will the Minister inform the House about the current situation regarding disadvantaged areas? Ireland has a strong case for extending the areas which the EC classifies as being disadvantaged. If the case had been put successfully, Ireland would be better off by £1 million each year and 30,000 farmers would be directly affected.

Obviously the six month Irish Presidency was the best time to push our claim. This should have been possible as Irish officials completed the file last December and passed the ball to the Minister, Deputy O'Kennedy, who promptly dropped it. The Minister should explain why he failed to look after the interests of Irish farmers in Brussels. The Minister either deliberately let the matter slip or he has no clout in Brussels. Instead of using the EC Presidency to help small farmers throughout Europe, the Irish Presidency will be remembered for allowing agriculture to take a severe nose dive.

On 28 March last at a meeting of the IFA in Adare, County Limerick, Paddy Lane stated that the file had been sent to Brussels early in February and that a final decision would have been made by 17 March. Mr. Lane was very firm on this. He repeated it, and further claimed that payments would be made to the extended areas in 1990. What happened? Is it possible or likely that the Minister for Finance put down the boot and deprived the agricultural community and the economy of a considerable input from the EC? I do not believe Mr. Lane deliberately misled the farmers in Limerick. I would like to know what happened.

The Minister should take this opportunity to inform the House of the areas submitted to Brussels for consideration for inclusion in the extended areas. It is important to let the Oireachtas know what is happening. In Limerick at the moment members of the Minister's party and Fianna Fáil county councillors are telling people in a cloak and dagger fashion that their areas are included in the disadvantaged areas.

In relation to this issue I would refer the Minister to statements in The Limerick Leader of 22 May, when an announcement was made regarding the extension of the disadvantaged areas saying that more than 1,000 farmers in east Limerick would be included in the EC disadvantaged areas under proposals finalised by the Government that week. The article went on to state that Deputy O'Dea had confirmed that parishes, which he listed, were to be designated disadvantaged under the proposals to be submitted for sanction to Brussels. Will the Minister indicate what areas have been submitted to Brussels so that we do not end up with people who chance their arm? I look forward to hearing the Minister's reply.

The first thing we must do is recognise the progress made in agriculture since Fianna Fáil returned to office. When Fianna Fáil returned to office in 1987 milk was being sold at approximately 80p a gallon. Last year this figure had increased to approximately £1.05, an increase of 25p or more than 30 per cent. Farm increases also increased. No such increases were achieved under the previous administration.

Senator Neville referred to the performance of the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy O'Kennedy, but I ask him to contrast Deputy O'Kennedy's performance with that of Deputy Deasy who as Minister was involved in the negotiations on the super-levy. It is quite clear he sold Irish dairy farmers down the drain. A special case could have been made for a quota higher than the one negotiated for Irish farmers at that time. I should point out that since Deputy O'Kennedy returned to office the quota has been increased by approximately 24 million gallons. He increased the quota by 11 million gallons last year. The Minister has to be complimented for obtaining those increases.

We are all aware, given world market trends, that prices this year are not as good as those which obtained last year. However, we have to acknowledge the efforts being made by the Minister to alleviate the hardships farmers have had to endure this year. For the first time, the EC cow premium of £52.43 per cow will be paid in respect of ten cows in dairy farms producing less than 12,800 gallons. In relation to the cattle and beef sector, he negotiated a reduction in the delay in the intervention period from 120 days to 45 days. He also secured a devaluation of the Green Pound. These must be recognised as significant achievements.

In relation to the disadvantaged areas, I have not made any representations for the inclusion of areas in west Limerick. The Minister ordered that a survey be carried out and under it 45,000 farmers were interviewed and six million acres surveyed. The findings were submitted to Brussels and I am sure farmers will be pleased with the results of the work done by the Minister when an announcement is made by Brussels.

I fail to understand the view adopted by the Labour Party. Not all that long ago a very important motion was tabled by Senator Dardis in relation to the GATT negotiations which was supported by the Fine Gael Party. However, the same day the Labour Party tabled a motion in relation to the Common Agricultural Policy. If it were not for the Common Agricultural Policy we would not have a farmer on the land today. They argued that premiums should be increased but I ask them to bear in mind that there would be no premiums if it were not for the Common Agricultural Policy. They also suggested that the support mechanisms have added considerably to the cost of food to the consumer. As I pointed out in the debate on that motion, when farmers do well the economy flourishes. However, Senator Costello disagrees and seems to be against farmers, even though Senator Upton seems to be speaking for them.

There was much ballyhoo when former Deputy Ray MacSharry was appointed Commissioner and it was claimed he would not be given a portfolio of significance in the Commission. Fortunately, he was given one of the most important tasks when he was put in charge of, agriculture. We should be delighted about this, as since his appointment he has done great work on our behalf. It should also be noted that he has responsibility for rural development. In this respect, I congratulate the Minister on obtaining FEOGA grants for the food industry, including £2 million for the meat processing sector; £2.9 million for poultry processing; £1 million for horticulture; £200,000 for cereals; £900,000 for livestock marts; £200,000 for dairying; £200,000 for potato storage and £1.3 million for fish processing.

In connection with the grant for poultry processing, I am delighted that Kantoher Food Products Limited in my area have been given a grant of £439,660 towards the provision of additional poultry processing facilities. These should prove of immense benefit to poultry producers in west Limerick and surrounding areas and lead to an improvement in the quality of life in that area. Kerrytree Technology Limited have been granted a sum of £421,071 for the provision of facilities for processing of daffodil flowers and bulbs at Ballyhahill, County Limerick. We should note each of those achievements.

We should also acknowledge that increased grants have been made available in an effort to tackle farm pollution which, as we are aware, presents major difficulties in agricultural areas. The new rates have been increased from 35 per cent to 45 per cent in the normal areas and 45 per cent to 55 per cent in the disadvantaged areas with young farmers qualifying for an additional 25 per cent. We must acknowledge those increases which will lead to an improvement in conditions for farmers who will be able to farm in a clean environment with the result that the economy will benefit.

At the outset I should like to respond to Senator Byrne who outlined the attitude of Fianna Fáil to the motion before the House. It would appear he did not read the motion which calls on the Government to recognise the serious income crisis affecting thousands of farmers. Last week we wondered what the outcome of the GATT talks would be and, as expected, the industrial nations considered agricultural subsidies as the most contentious issue. In relation to funding, total farm support within the EC amounts to 10 billion ECUs whereas in the United States the comparable figure is $500 million. There is no doubt the next round of trade talks, due to begin on 23 July in Geneva, are very important. Given that transfers account for 5 per cent of our national income is it any wonder we are interested in the GATT negotiations? If price supports were reduced national income would fall.

The drop in farm incomes during the last 15 years was frightening and we are justified in using the word "crisis" to describe that. It should also be borne in mind that farm incomes were unsatisfactory long before the GATT negotiations became the flavour of the month.

We have still the added hardship where thousands of small farmers are struggling on very low incomes. It is interesting to note that in the last couple of weeks in the Seanad despite dealing with the Broadcasting Bill and the Pension Bill, we found time to debate motions in relation to the GATT talks, the implication of mad cow disease and the problems associated with ERAD. I hope the general public, particularly the urban community, are not saying that the farmers are again crying wolf. I am from a rural community and I am always alarmed at the urban-rural divide which is still as obvious as it was in the past.

The fall in milk prices has been the talking point for the last number of years. Farming organisations are lobbying for increased milk prices and are calling on the Minister for Agriculture and Food to ensure the proper functioning of the milk price support mechanism. They want to secure a legally binding commitment from the EC Commission that they will support prices to the maximum extent, and are calling also on the co-ops to seriously consider their reserves to boost temporarily milk prices above market returns.

Dairy farm incomes, as mentioned by Senator Upton, have fallen by as much as 30 per cent, yet farming experts are projecting a reduction of 40 per cent unless EC milk price support schemes are introduced to prevent future reductions in milk prices.

The input, fertiliser and machinery costs relating to the beef industry have increased dramatically and so, of course, has borrowing. The Minister should insist that the beef intervention period is reduced substantially in order to achieve a much needed boost to Irish beef prices. The EC should agree also to the suckler cow premium being available to all dairy farmers. Other schemes are proposed to boost farm prices — a 90 day cut in intervention payments which would result in a 3p per gallon milk price increase to suppliers which would be very welcome and a 4p per lb. increase to beef producers; new and improved butter and skim milk utilisation schemes need to be implemented by the Commission to ensure improved market prices and greater confidence in the sector over the following months.

I was disappointed on reading a reply from the Minister to a question put to him the other day, concerning the proposal from the European Commission to reduce quotas for dairy farmers as a mechanism to reduce butter stocks going into intervention. When asked for a guarantee that no proposal, such as a reduced milk quota, would be implemented or even considered in the context of a review of the quota in 1992, he gave no guarantee. From what I can gather there is not a hope of a proposal being considered by the European Commission. At this stage, the Minister for Agriculture and Food should be implored to lobby Mr. Ray MacSharry, EC Commissioner for Agriculture for an EC marketing programme for dairy products to combat the present situation where farmers are experiencing falling returns from the butter market.

On reflection, the policies of this Government and of the EC have shown a total disregard for the low to middle income farmer, for example, the milk quota structure is loaded against the small producer; he cannot lease or buy extra quota because his wealthy neighbour can outbid him any time; and his bank manager frowns when he wants to borrow money. He will not lend him money because he has a meagre quota of less than 25,000 gallons and as such he could not make his repayments and the bank manager turns him away. If a farmer wishes to get his farmyard in line with the new EC directives on pollution and milk hygiene, he would need a win on the national lottery to ensure that he would not go out of business — so much for Delors' aspiration to retain the social fabric of rural Ireland.

There was a crisis in relation to cereals, to which other Senators referred and gave the various figures, but I will not deal with that issue now because of pressure of time. In the Slieve Felim area, which is my own area, there are 25 electoral divisions on the Tipperary-Limerick border. I appeal to the Minister of State to go to the Minister for Agriculture and Food and the Minister for Finance to ensure that that region would qualify for western development funding in order to arrest the population decline there. This will not cause any problem because it already qualifies for EC funding for the purposes of roads, electricity, forestry and agri-tourism as well as headage payments. That is a plus if the Minister wants to do something to arrest the fall of the population there.

My last point relates to women. They are the forgotten statistic in rural Ireland. They are systematically excluded from official status and I appear for funding within the integrated rural development for women. If they do not remain in rural Ireland we shall have a desert and it will not matter who has or has not a milk quota because there will be nobody there to use it.

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak to this important motion this evening. Although there are clear differences within the House on the motion before us, there are also large areas on which we agree. We are all very conscious of the importance of agriculture in this economy. We know that when farm prices and incomes are under pressure, as they clearly are at the moment, this has important consequences not just for farmers, but for the whole economy. We are all conscious of the risks that are involved in the current GATT negotiations, and the need to continue to press for an agreement which meets Irish and European needs.

So, there is much common ground. In addition, the Government are extremely conscious of the difficulties which farmers are undergoing at present. It is precisely because of this that the Minister, Deputy O'Kennedy, has sought and obtained a number of measures at Community level which are designed to mitigate the effect of the fall in EC and world market prices which has occurred from mid-1989 onwards.

However, before going on to outline what the range of measures which have been taken are, I would like to provide relevant background information to this debate.

Between 1986 and 1989, aggregate farm incomes, as measured by the CSO increased by 50 per cent in nominal terms and just under 40 per cent in real terms. So, although incomes in 1990 are under pressure, we should acknowledge that the income base upon which this pressure is being exerted was the highest in real terms achieved during the eighties.

Over the same 1986-89 period, the increase in prices, as measured by the consumer price index, was less than 10 per cent, which represents an annual inflation rate over the period of just over 3 per cent.

The overall economic policies which ensured this low rate of inflation are of crucial importance to farmers. The same sound economic policies also helped to reduce interest rates in 1987 and 1988. Under the influence of external factors, interest rates rose again in 1989, but it is very heartening to see that rates have fallen again and I look forward to further good news on that front later in the year.

There should be no misunderstanding. A stable macro-economic climate, which can keep inflation and interest rates as low as possible, is one of the main contributions which Government can make to supporting farmers' incomes.

A number of Senators have made the point that the average figure for farm incomes hides a wide variation in incomes within farming. We all know that this indeed is the case. In recent years, it is dairy farmers who have done best. Indeed, the high calf prices which dairy farmers received, particularly in 1988 and 1989, obviously put pressure on margins in beef production. It may be small consolation for dairy farmers, whose income this year is under pressure from a fall in the price of both milk and calves, but it has to be acknowleged that the level of calf prices in 1988 and 1989 were not sustainable. We are moving back to a more normal set of price relationships between calf, store and finished beef animal, and this is a necessary development for beef producers.

I have mentioned that prices have fallen for milk and calves; they have also fallen for beef and sheep. This has already been pointed out by a number of Senators. The reason for these price reductions is that markets for our major-products at EC and world level have changed. The balance between supply and demand is less favourable in 1990 than it was in 1988 and 1989. The reasons for this varies by product. In the case of dairy products and beef, there has been a drop in consumption. The BSE scare in the UK has reduced beef consumption there by 25 per cent. In the case of sheep, there has been, as you know, a major increase in supply, both from Ireland and the UK, to the French market. This extra supply, as well as the weakness in sterling which applied until recently, helped push lamb prices downwards.

Given that these major market changes occurred, it was inevitable that there would be an impact on prices. The Government have taken a considerable number of measures which have sought to minimise the price reductions. Some of these have already been mentioned during this debate. I will briefly list them.

In the beef sector — the sector which has had most difficulty over the past two years — the Government have consistently made it clear to our Community partners and to the EC Commission the importance of this sector to our whole economy. When the new EC beef regime was put in place in early 1989, the EC Council of Ministers formally recognised the relative importance of the beef industry to this economy. It must be acknowledged that the support measures which the EC Commission has introduced since then in the beef sector has kept faith with the recognition.

In April 1989, carcase intervention was introduced and in the autumn of last year, a significant aids to private storage scheme operated. In the course of this year, Ireland has been successful in tendering for beef intervention. During the first full year of operation of the new EC tendering system for beef, Ireland accounted for 47 per cent of the Community total compared to an average of 20 per cent in earlier years. As part of the EC price agreement for 1990-91, the cut in intervention payment delays from 120 to 45 days was also of importance.

More recently, the BSE scare in the UK has had a significant effect on beef markets and prices. Here again, decisive action was taken. The decision to operate the safety net clause for intervention was vital to stop prices falling further and to restore some confidence to the market. In effect this has meant that since 6 June open intervention has been in place in Ireland and the UK.

In addition to this, swift action was taken to avoid trade barriers for beef being established within the EC after France announced an import ban on British beef. The Minister called an emergency meeting of the Agriculture Council on 6 June to deal with the problem and managed to achieve a solution which was acceptable all round. This ensured that unilateral actions were immediately ended. It also meant that what could have been a trade crisis in Europe, which extended way beyond agriculture, was headed off. The resolution of this problem was one of the major achievements of the Irish Presidency.

There is obvious concern among dairy farmers as milk prices have fallen sharply over the past year. Let us be clear about the reasons for this. During 1988 and 1989, world prices for dairy products rose sharply in response to low levels of stocks and relatively tight supply/demand conditions. On the basis of this rising market, the EC reduced certain supports to the dairy sector. During 1989, consumption of butter and certain other dairy products fell and prices weakened. Thus, we reached 1990 with lower market prices for our key dairy products and lower EC supports than had been present 12 to 18 months earlier.

The situation at present is that product markets continue to be weak and there are no immediate signs of improvement. What has changed is the degree of support which the EC is providing to the milk market. Following representations from Ireland, additional support measures were introduced this year, in the form of higher export refunds for butter and higher aids for butter used in the confectionery industry and in the form of concentrated butter and increased subsidies for the use of skimmed milk powder. It is also well known that intervention is being extensively used by Irish processors for butter and skimmed milk powder.

We will continue to press for market support arrangements which will provide an adequate milk price. In the longer term, the key to an acceptable milk price is not only the level of EC supports but a movement away from excessive dependence on the intervention products of butter and skimmed milk powder. I accept that this will take time and money. It will have to be accompanied by further rationalisation of our processing and marketing arrangements for milk, but it is the only way to go in the long-term.

The difficulties in the sheep sector have been referred to by a number of Senators. Again, I accept that there are difficulties but I do not accept that the Government have not been active in trying to solve these difficulties.

To some extent, the sheep sector represents a problem of success. There has been a massive growth in sheep numbers in recent years. Farmers saw an opportunity and responded to it. I believe that they were right to do so. The extra numbers have led to additional output and exports. They have also led to many farmers having a more diversified farming system than they had in the early eighties. Experience has clearly shown that spreading risk for a farmer by having more than one predominant enterprise can be a very sensible approach.

We are moving towards a single market for sheep to be achieved by 1993. The EC market regime which remains until then continues to provide reasonable security for sheep producers. It is clear that the stabiliser regime for sheep could mean that ewe premia in the coming years could be lower than would otherwise be the case but we will be pressing to ensure that adequate levels of support remain for this sector. The decisions taken at the EC price fixing in April of this year point in the right direction, when it was decided that prospective reductions in the ewe premium will be compensated from 1991-92 by increased sheep headage payments in disadvantaged areas.

In addition, the changes in the sheep régime which were agreed last year, provided for a change in the payment arrangements for the ewe premium in 1990. This will mean that the 1989 premium and two-thirds of the 1990 premium will be paid during the current year. This should represent an important assistance to the cash flow situation of many farmers. I am hopeful that the bulk of the ewe premium payments will be made in the near future.

I have dealt with the main product areas which are under pressure. I would now like to move to measures which can broadly be defined as being in the structural area. A number of these measures which have been put in place under EC policy have the advantage of providing payments directly to farmers. As the balance between price support and structural measures has changed within the CAP in recent years, the contribution which direct subsidies make to total farm income has increased. Between 1984 and 1989, using Central Statistics Office figures, the contribution of the net figure for subsidies and levies went from 8 per cent to 11 per cent of aggregate farm income.

An important part of these subsidies is paid under the disadvantaged areas scheme. As you know, the Government have submitted a detailed application to the EC Commission seeking agreement to extend the disadvantaged areas. This would be done by adding new areas to the list of less severely handicapped areas and by designating coastal areas as areas suffering from specific handicaps. In addition, it is proposed that 1.3 million acres, currently designated as less severely handicapped, would be classified as more severely handicapped and that areas now designated as mountain sheep grazing areas would be reclassified as less severely handicapped areas. The rates of payment would also be adjusted. This plan has gone to Brussels. We are hopeful for a favourable result which in turn will lead to increase in headage payments from 1991 onwards.

Expenditure on the new proposals together with the existing expenditure under the disadvantaged areas scheme will attract 65 per cent Community recoupment when fully implemented and, when account is taken of the abolition this year of the off farm income restriction, total expenditure when the current proposals are fully implemented will increase headage payments from £60 million to £100 million a year. In addition, the new designated areas will benefit from increased investment aids, exemption from the milk co-responsibility levy and the special supplement to the ewe premium I mentioned earlier.

The payments under the structural policy of the CAP are just part of a wider reorientation of Community spending — which fit into the 1992 programme and the increased spending in the less economically advanced parts of the Community. The enlarged EC Structural Funds will be an important part of our national investment in the period up to 1993. The various operational programmes which will determine how these funds are to be spent are in the course of being approved. Many of these will have a direct impact on rural areas.

The operational programme for the control of farmyard pollution has already stimulated significant investment by farmers. Between 1989 and 1990, an estimated £200 million will be invested by farmers, much of it on pollution control.

The operational programme on rural development, which will provide support for agri-tourism new enterprises and agricultural training and education will be approved later this year. In addition, the various operational programmes for infrastructure, industry, human resources will each have a positive impact on economic growth, and will provide in many rural areas additional income and employment opportunities.

Increasingly in the future, everyone, whether at Government or at farm level, will have to become more conscious of looking at the income issue for farmers in a wider context than just what is earned from farming. As the results of household budget survey clearly show, farm households have diverse sources of income, just as do non-farm households. It will be one of the challenges of the nineties to expand the range and contribution of these non-farm income sources to farm households. This is why we need to have a more diversified rural economy and why the increased EC Structural Fund spending should work towards this objective.

I would now like to turn to some of the longer-term issues Senators have raised. One of the central issues is the current round of GATT negotiations. Ireland has strongly supported the Community position in these negotiations, which is being ably directed by Commissioner MacSharry. We accept that we are working towards lower overall agricultural support levels in all countries in the expectation that this will lead to balanced markets and a more market oriented trading system.

During the Irish EC Presidency, the Agriculture Council was fully involved in developing and maintaining the Community's negotiating position. The Council unanimously confirmed the Community's global approach at its meetings in April and June, declared that the basic principles of the CAP were not negotiable and stressed that full credit should be obtained for past reform measures. The Council also decided that Agricultural Ministers will continue to be involved to the greatest possible extent in the negotiations. The European solidarity which we were able to bring about through unanimous decisions — never an easy achievement at the Council of Ministers — was a major factor in resisting the American demands for elimination of agriculture supports in the EC and the fact is that for the first time ever at the Houston meeting last week the Americans have dropped their demand for elimination of support and have recognised the need for a balanced and global approach which has always been the EC position. The negotiations can now continue and the contribution of our Presidency will have been seen to have been very significant.

We will continue to follow the GATT negotiations with great attention, as clearly the outcome of these negotiations is of fundamental national importance. We are prepared to negotiate to achieve a more sensible and coherent world trading order for agriculture. This would benefit all GATT members. We are not prepared to negotiate away the principles or mechanisms of the CAP.

A number of Senators stressed the uncertainty which prevail in agriculture at the moment. Questions were asked about the future of the milk quota system. The question was posed as to what is the overall policy towards the agricultural and food sector.

There are indeed some major uncertainties about the future. We do not know for certain what will be the future of the milk quota regime. The Commission is required to produce a report on milk quotas during 1991, with a view to assisting a decision on future policy post 1992. The current Irish view on this issue is that the basic milk quota system will remain, though perhaps in a more flexible form. There are aspects of the beef regime which are also due to be reviewed this year and, of course, the whole sugar regime will be renegotiated over coming months as well. We would expect that the arrangements for cereals would in any event fall to be revised also.

At the wider level of policy, the outcome of the GATT negotiations will obviously be of importance. Even though we cannot predict the precise outcome, we know that there will be lower support and protection levels in the 1990s than applied in the 1970s and 1980s. Our knowledge of the movement of EC policy points us in this direction anyway.

So we are somewhat at a policy crossroads. In the light of all of this, the Minister set up a policy review group within the Department in November 1989. This group have had consultations with a wide spectrum of interests in the industry. They are due to submit their report to the Minister later this year.

The future is clearly going to be competitive for Irish farmers. We know that we have the advantages of good quality food, a relatively clean environment and a low cost of production for our major products. We have opportunities to diversify our rural economy, through tourism and other industry. It will not be easy to meet the challenges which the nineties will pose for us, but we have no other option than to rise to them.

At the outset I compliment the Minister on his detailed response, although I would not agree fully with him. There are other aspects I would add. I do think he made a conscientious effort to reply.

In the four minutes I have, I want to once more quickly identify the problem and then move on to what I would propose as the solution to it. The problem is obviously that at the moment there is a drop of 20 to 25 per cent in farm incomes. Basically dairy farmers have a £300 per head reduction in their incomes under the heading of dairy cows. There is a £100 reduction in all cattle prices and it is worth remembering that 65 per cent of farmers have quotas of 20,000 gallons or less. There is a crisis for farmers in terms of getting credit from financial institutions. There is a crisis of income in their homes and rural depopulation continues. There is a very serious problem.

To add to what the Minister has said, I would propose that the Government provide low interest loans of 11 per cent for specific purposes, for example, working capital for winter and beef production, cereals and pig production. That kind of thing is necessary, particularly since no financial institution is willing to lend to farmers at the moment.

I would propose a greater increase in the headage payment schemes than the welcome ones announced earlier. I would increase that so that headage would be paid directly to 30,000 small farmers here irrespective of their location. Increasing the severely handicapped areas and the headage payments would be an important measure of tremendous support from Brussels and it would be an easy method of giving the farmers a real advancement in their situation.

I would also propose that the Minister speed up the whole payment of farm grants from various Departments.

I would propose that small milk producers countrywide would get any additional milk quota that may come on stream and I would propose that there be provided immediately a land authority in the Department of Agriculture to maintain and continue the division of land and of commonages and estates and that kind of thing.

The last proposal I would make is that the reduction in payment period from 120 to 30 days for intervention beef should be passed on to the producers. Factories have hijacked this payment to a large degree.

Those are the things I would add to what the Minister has said. There is a real crisis. I honestly believe it will be a very big political issue in the future. It is right that this House should debate it. It warrants discussion at all levels. We face massive rural depopulation, tremendous poverty among small farmers. I have helped the occasional farmer fill up a grant form and their level of income is quite frightening. We have to take emergency steps and we have to take them now. Thank you, a Leas-Chathaoirligh and I would like to thank my colleague, Deputy Naughten, for the time.

First I want to compliment the Minister on his reply. He actually did a Houdini act. How he was able to draft a reply along those lines and stand up here in this House and read it seriously I do not know. The Minister knows, I know and my colleagues across the Floor know, that everything the Minister said in that document is untrue, false and misleading.

That is not so.

Last night I pointed out quite clearly the difficulties in Irish farming. I pointed out that I believe the farm management survey was being deliberately delayed because it would show a drastic drop in farmers' incomes. That survey was released this afternoon and it confirmed precisely what I said. What I said here the last evening was that farm prices have dropped from 20 to 25 per cent. The farm survey published today has stated 21 per cent in 1990 and 4 per cent in 1989. That is a 25 per cent drop over two years.

Yet, our colleagues on the far side of the House come in with an amendment that commends the Government on the measures they have taken during 1990 to maintain farm incomes in the face of the unfavourable market conditions which prevail. Is there any other sector of the community that would tolerate their incomes dropping by 25 per cent? Then we have Members standing up in this House and justifying that. I am absolutely stunned that the honourable Members across the floor put in this motion and signed their names to it. Do they realise what is happening throughout rural Ireland where family farms are being put up for sale, families are emigrating to England and America, and farm families are leaving and coming to live in Dublin simply because they can no longer meet their repayments.

It is clear from the survey out today that not alone has this disastrous situation affected farmers throughout the country but it has, to a greater degree, affected farmers in the west whose income dropped by 7 per cent last year. The income for people in the rest of the country dropped by 2 per cent and the average drop worked out at 4 per cent. Am I living on the same island as the people across the floor? How can they justify that? I thank the Minister of State for coming in here and listening very attentively to the debate but I wonder where is the Minister? We have had no apology for his absence. He has treated this Chamber with contempt by not coming here for this very important debate. Have we forgotten that agricultural exports account for 25 per cent of our total exports? Have we forgotten the huge section of the community who depend on agriculture for a livelihood, either directly or indirectly, and yet the Minister for Agriculture and Food has treated this House with contempt by not coming in here to listen to the debate. It is a deplorable situation; it must be regretted and one I wish to place on the record of the House.

I appeal to my colleagues on the far side of the House to take the only honourable course open and withdraw this amendment and allow our very reasoned motion to go through. We have called on the Government to recognise the serious income crisis affecting thousands of Irish farmers but not one speaker has recognised that problem. The figures from Teagasc indicate that farm incomes droped by 4 per cent in 1989 and are projected to fall by 20 per cent in 1990. We have stated that and we have asked the Government to implement measures to alleviate this present income crisis in sheep, beef, milk, cereals and horticulture, an area very close to the heart of the Minister of State. It does not matter what line of farming you take at present, farm incomes have slumped. Yet we have a Government sitting back and paying no heed. I cannot understand why the Government representatives from rural Ireland who know this problem at first hand will allow the Government to stand idly by and allow a generation to be pushed from the land, because that is what we are facing. The real crunch has not come yet. Wait until loans are due to be paid in September and October and people will not have the money to pay them. Banks are not going to be as tolerant on this occasion as they were on previous occasions. Interest rates are too high at 17 per cent and no farm enterprise can justify borrowing at present.

I ask the Minister to outline his policy and his Department's policy to a young man handed 100 acres of land from his father. What line of produce will they advise him to get into? There is no answer to the question because the Minister knows, I know, and everybody else in this House knows that there is no line of farming he can go into today that will justify borrowing. A person without stock will remain without stock because the income derived from that source will not justify borrowing. I cannot understand why the Government will not recognise the problem and set about trying to come to grips with it and alleviate the hardship.

I did not come in here last week abusing or criticising the Minister. I pointed out very clearly what was wrong in regard to the huge drop in sheep prices and a drop of £100 per animal in beef prices. That drop is worse when one talks about the stores. I pointed out that lamb prices were 84p per lb. during the first week of July this year; they were £1.10 per lb. last year. I pointed out that wool is 30p per lb. this year but it was 72p per lb. last year. I said what was wrong and then I went on to point out to the Minister what I felt could alleviate the problem. I pointed out that the first thing we need is a guaranteed market price for cattle next spring because if we do not have that, after the two very bad years that winter feeders have had, there will be no one buying store cattle this year because there will be no money to buy them. I pointed out that it was vitally important that we got low interest loans, that money could be borrowed in Europe and lent here at 11 per cent instead of 17 per cent. These are two very important factors that would cost very little.

I further pointed out I could not understand why something was not being done to market our mutton which is being dumped at 10p per lb. CBF made no effort to market it and perhaps that was because of a cut in their budget last year of 50 per cent. We are entitled to answers but we have got none. Again, I pointed out to the Minister the three areas where we could create a massive number of jobs as well as getting a foundation for the cattle, sheep and wool industries. We should try to do something to process our hide skins, but we have done nothing. There should be co-ordinated Government effort, together with the IDA and the National Development Corporation, to ensure that industries like these get on the market. All of those measures would be a major help to the agricultural industry as well as creating vital jobs.

I further pointed out that there should be a scheme providing for aid for private storage to take some of the lamb off the market in the crucial months of July, August and September. If we are not able to get some of that lamb glut off the market, things will get worse. That was one scheme that could have been introduced without great cost. The French pressed for this at the last meeting of the Council of Agriculture Ministers, which we were chairing but we gave them very little support. It is a reflection on the Irish Government that they did not get in behind the French and look for a scheme providing for aid for private storage of lamb. That was not done and we stand condemned for that. There is a lot more an Irish Agriculture Commissioner could do for our agriculture. It was a pity that during the six months we had the chair of the Council of Ministers with an Irish Agriculture Commissioner we did not do more to alleviate the crisis in Irish agriculture that was evident at that time.

I pointed out another scheme which could be introduced with a stroke of a pen which would only cost 35 per cent of what the farmer would get — I was talking about headage payments. We could be paying twice as much headage payments as we are paying. It is 65 per cent subsidised from Europe. We were told that in 1992 we would get more by way of income subsidies rather than in price support. Here was one way the Government, with a stroke of a pen, could have increased the headage payments but they have done nothing about it. We have submitted a proposal to Europe to have disadvantaged areas reclassified as severely handicapped which would allow headage payments to be paid. That proposal was first put in 1987. There were some technicalities and it came back but it was not pushed and as a result here we are in 1990 and the areas are still not reclassified. That means a loss of income to the farming community and particularly to the farmers along the west coast. Some Senators here know what I am talking about.

When you were in Government, there were "strokes".

There is also the question of the payment of those subsidies. I cannot understand why the application forms for headage payments only came out three weeks ago. They should have been out last March and readings should be carried out all summer. They had to be returned by last Friday and readings will not begin until August and, as a result, farmers will not be able to sell cattle. Why cannot that be done right? I further pointed out to the Minister that he should now make a statement that he would accept mart dockets, and factory dockets on the sale of cattle where the subsidy was applied for but where a reading had not been taken. I appeal to the Minister, even at this late stage, to do something along those lines. If he would accept those documents it would mean the orderly marketing of cattle and it would not mean a backlog at the end of the year. I regret the type of reply we have got here tonight; it displayed a dismissive attitude and it failed to recognise the problem. The trouble is that we do not recognise the problems in Irish agriculture when they arise and when we try to do something about them it is too late. We have a stop-go policy in relation to agriculture. If a senior officer in the Department of Agriculture and Food was asked tomorrow morning about the policy for Irish farming he would not be able to give an answer because we do not know whether we are coming or going.

In accordance with the resolution of the House, I must now ask if the amendment is agreed.

Senators

No.

Amendment put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 24; Níl, 14.

  • Bennett, Olga.
  • Bohan, Eddie.
  • Byrne, Seán.
  • Cassidy, Donie.
  • Conroy, Richard.
  • Dardis, John.
  • Farrell, Willie.
  • Finneran, Michael.
  • Fitzgerald, Tom.
  • Foley, Denis.
  • Haughey, Seán F.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Keogh, Helen.
  • Kiely, Dan.
  • Kiely, Rory.
  • Lanigan, Michael.
  • Lydon, Don.
  • McKenna, Tony.
  • Mullooly, Brian.
  • O'Brien, Francis.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • O'Donovan, Denis A.
  • O'Keeffe, Batt.
  • Wright, G.V.

Níl

  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Harte, John.
  • Jackman, Mary.
  • McDonald, Charlie.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Neville, Daniel.
  • Ó Foighil, Pól.
  • O'Reilly, Joe.
  • O'Toole, Joe.
  • Ross, Shane P.N.
  • Ryan, Brendan.
  • Ryan, John.
  • Staunton, Myles.
  • Upton, Pat.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Wright and Fitzgerald: Níl, Senators Jackman and O'Reilly.
Amendment declared carried.
Question put: "That the motion, as amended, be agreed to."
The Seanad divided: Tá, 24; Níl, 15.

  • Bennett, Olga.
  • Bohan, Eddie.
  • Byrne, Seán.
  • Cassidy, Donie.
  • Conroy, Richard.
  • Dardis, John.
  • Farrell, Willie.
  • Finneran, Michael.
  • Fitzgerald, Tom.
  • Foley, Denis.
  • Haughey, Seán F.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Keogh, Helen.
  • Kiely, Dan.
  • Kiely, Rory.
  • Lanigan, Michael.
  • Lydon, Don.
  • McKenna, Tony.
  • Mullooly, Brian.
  • O'Brien, Francis.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • O'Donovan, Denis A.
  • O'Keeffe, Batt.
  • Wright, G.V.

Níl

  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Costello, Joe.
  • Harte, John.
  • Jackman, Mary.
  • McDonald, Charlie.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Neville, Daniel.
  • Ó Foighil, Pól.
  • O'Reilly, Joe.
  • O'Toole, Joe.
  • Ross, Shane P.N.
  • Ryan, Brendan.
  • Ryan, John.
  • Staunton, Myles.
  • Upton, Pat.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Wright and Fitzgerald; Níl, Senators Jackman and O'Reilly.
Question declared carried.
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