Vol. 127 No. 8
In regard to the previous matter, may I say go bhfuil an-áthas ormsa freisin that the translation service has been installed.
In regard to the business for today, we will resume on Item No. 3, the Environmental Protection Agency Bill, 1990, Second Stage. It will continue from now until 6 o'clock; we will have a sos from 6 p.m. until 6.30 p.m. and from 6.30 p.m. until 8 p.m. we will have Item No. 13, Motion 68.
On the Order of Business, may I also welcome the introduction of the simultaneous translation system on behalf of Fine Gael and pay tribute to all, especially Senator Ó Foighil, who made this a crusade and ensured that it had a successful outcome and to you, a Chathaoirligh, for the way in which you, as Chairman of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, put pressure in the right places to expedite the matter.
I would like to ask the Leader of the House if there is some way in which the Seanad could note the major political reforms that are taking place in South Africa, to express the support of the House for this continuing process and to hope that what is now started will be irreversible and comprehensive. I feel it would be appropriate if in some way we could have a debate on that subject so that the very strong views of this House and, I hope, the support of this House for what is taking place could be expressed. The matter has not been debated elsewhere and I feel it is proper that at least one House of the Oireachtas should take note of this important development.
There are a number of points I would like to raise. The first point is on the Environmental Protection Agency Bill, 1990, which we are discussing today. Obviously, we have been fully supportive in the introduction of the Bill and in dealing with that legislation. We indicated to the Government side earlier that when there is much interest in a Bill and many speakers lining up to speak, it would be advisable to go on a bit later at night. I know that arrangements have been made for today and that the sitting finishes at 8 p.m. I certainly feel that with the number of speakers we have at the moment there is no reason why we should not have gone on until 10 p.m. I would suggest that the Leader of the House takes that on board if there is a pressure on business next week to do the same. It means as well, incidentally, that people who contributed to the debate last week will have very little of a contribution to make this week. The more that it is spread out and the longer we give to the sittings the more opportunity there is to contribute on other matters. I would ask the Leader to respond to that and perhaps to take that on board for the future.
I raised with the Leader of the House last week the need to extend the time for Private Members and asked him to respond. I note we have the Government side tonight, which I have always found to be a contradiction in terms, but nevertheless it is there. I think we should extend that time because it brings more interest and more variety to the business being dealt with. As well as that, we have some additional responsibilities, with the proceedings being televised, to try to give some variety to the business as well.
I asked of the Leader before, and I made it clear that I would be raising it again this week, the question of the Bill to remove the discriminatory aspect of post-primary education. I know the Minister had the view that it would not be her responsibility much longer. Now that she is back permanently with us, I ask the Leader of the House to raise that matter with her with a view to getting it cleared.
The final issue I want to raise, and to ask the Leader of the House to give serious consideration to it, is the Middle East war. We have had discussions and statements on this already and a lot has changed since that time. We now have the person we were led to believe was the head of the armed forces, the leader of the UN, condemning some of the actions of what we were told two weeks ago was his army. Many developments have taken place since then. I do not intend making a speech on the issue, but we should now consider and assess where we are on this, even if we did nothing else but read back to people the speeches that were made a fortnight ago, let them see what they said and judge whether it stands the test of time. I urgently request of the Leader of the House that this matter be given priority during next week's business.
I would like to support Senator Manning in his suggestion to the Leader of the House in relation to a debate on South Africa. The changes taking place there are momentous and perhaps are being lost in the media attention being directed at the Gulf War.
I would also to a degree support Senator O'Toole's suggestion in relation to the Gulf War. I am sure Senator O'Toole and all our colleagues on both sides of the House study war and its developments and realise that wars rarely, if ever, continue as they were meant to at the start of hostilities. Perhaps the Leader might consider, if not in the immediate future then at some time during the session — hopefully, the war will have ended — a debate in relation to the developments in the Gulf War.
I would also like to ask the Leader of the House if he would give consideration to the possibility of this House discussing on a regular basis developments within the European Community. For example, on the Order paper there are eight resolutions under the heading of European Parliament. This House, apart from specific motions, does not get the opportunity to discuss all these resolutions, and a number of them have far-reaching implications. For example resolution (ii) on the constitutional basis of European union; resolution (vi), which deals with my own brief in the House — the development of the common transport policy in the run-up to the completion of the internal market; and resolution (viii) dealing with the executive powers of the Commission. It is in that context that I would like the Leader to convey our thanks for the stand which the Irish Government took in the most recent discussions at European level among the Council of Ministers. According to a report in today's Irish Times, the European Community will supply gas masks to Palestinians in the Israeli occupied territories——
Senator, I do not wish to interrupt you but you have extended your address to the Leader to the point of it being a speech.
I am very sorry but I was raising specific items on the Order Paper——
I am allowing Senator Mooney to put a question to the Leader of the House.
I appreciate and fully support the Cathaoirleach's ruling on this matter. The last time the House met statements were made, which were on the record of the House, that I had told lies to the House in relation to the Israeli Government's refusal——
My only fear, Senator, is that there would be Members who would perceive that what you are doing was taking advantage of the situation.
I appreciate that. All I want to do is put on the record of the House that the Community is now going to supply gas masks and that the Israeli Government conceded they did not have enough gas masks to give to the Palestinians over the past few weeks. That is the point I wanted to make.
I want to raise an extremely serious matter with the Leader of the House. It is a matter which has already gained much attention in the media, but not in this House. It is a matter that very specifically affects the area the Leader of the House himself represents. I want to put two points to the Leader of the House: (1) that he would convey the anxiety of this House on this issue and (2) that he would try to have an emergency debate on it. The issue is the problem of funding, the crisis in funding, in the health boards areas at the moment. This is a serious matter for local democracy and obviously for the patients concerned. Many health boards — including the Cathaoirleach's own board — have said they will not be able to function in the coming year and that many beds will be lost——
Senator O'Reilly, I must remind you that you have a procedure available to you and you can use that procedure by way of motion. I would be grateful if you would put a question to the Leader of the House.
I take that point and I will submit a motion on it immediately. I wanted to use this occasion to get a response from the Leader on the matter as it is so urgent.
Déanaim comhghairdeas leis an Seanadóir Pól Ó Foighil agus tá áthas orm go bhfuil an lá tagtha faoi dheireadh thiar thall. Más maith is mithid.
I hope the Leader of the House will give some consideration to having an urgent debate on Northern Ireland where there is now evidence of a deplorable political stalemate. The point of such debate, with an appropriate Government presence, would be, I hope, to throw some light on where responsibility lies for this debacle which only plays into the hands of the paramilitaries.
I support Senator O'Toole's request for a further debate on the Gulf War. It is true that we made statements on that recently but the developments since then are alarming and the position I took, after much agonising, would be considerably modified in the light of subsequent developments. If there is such a debate, I hope that those who had absolute conviction and certitude about their position from the beginning will recognise the good faith of those of us in this House who voted in the way we thought proper and that it will not be an occasion for triumphalist crowing.
I wish to raise the question of the foreign affairs committee. Judging from what other Senators have said today, the need for this committee is now more urgent than ever. I ask the Leader of the House and the Taoiseach to ensure that if such a committee is set up Members of this House would be included on it. It is vitally important that it is not confined to Members of the Dáil.
The issue of the Gulf War has been raised. I lived in South Africa 20 years ago. I was in Zimbabwe for three years and I have a deep interest in that part of the world. The momentous changes happening there should be encouraged. They are very traumatic for both sides and a full debate is needed on that subject. Then, there is the issue of the Baltic Republics. There were extraordinary pictures available yesterday evening on Channel 4 which were filmed in Latvia and they were just unbelievable. These are three major worldwide issues on which both Houses should focus. A foreign affairs committee would need to meet on a regular basis in order to discuss these subjects and the developments in Europe. It is no longer acceptable that there should be further delay in setting up such a foreign affairs committee.
Hear, hear.
I wish to raise Item No. 7 on the supplementary Order Paper. It is a motion by the Progressive Democrats, that Seanad Éireann condemns the decision of Dublin Corporation to allow Sinn Féin to use the Mansion House for their Ard Fheis.
Hear, hear.
I ask the Government to give consideration to discuss this. There was a lot of concern about this issue during the past month. The leader of that group spoke about the speculation of an IRA ceasefire as if it were a source of amusement. That party support murder and proxy bombings in Northern Ireland.
I remind the Senator that he is making a speech.
That party ignores the views of the majority. I ask the Leader of the House if he would please give time to discuss this important motion.
Ar an gcéad dul síos ba mhaith liom comhghairdeas a tabhairt don Seanadóir, Pól Ó Foighil, ar an seirbhís aistriúcháin.
Everybody in the House indicated that there was a general welcome for the simultaneous translation service. Although there was a lot of goodwill, the pressure so effectively mounted by Senator Ó Foighil had a great deal to do with the timing of this and it is appropriate that we should recognise that. There was general consent and assistance from all the House but a particular role was played by Senator Ó Foighil.
I would agree with Senator Cullen who raised the question of a foreign affairs committee. It is Item No. 49 on the supplementary Order Paper. I wonder if the Leader of the House could assuage my concerns because I note in the newspaper reports adverted to by Senator Cullen that it is consistently referred to as a foreign affairs committee of the Dáil. I would like a cast-iron undertaking, if possible, that it will be a proper committee of both Houses of the Oireachtas, particularly since it has been pressed for in every session of Seanad Éireann. It would be an extraordinary insult if we were excluded from this particularly since so much of the material on the Order Paper of this House deals with foreign affairs.
I draw the attention of the House to item No. 52. I am well aware of the fact that the Order of Business has been agreed by the Whips so I have no intention of attempting to subvert that agreement or of calling for an alteration in the Order of Business for today. I would point out that there is concern on all sides of the House on the question of the harmonisation of asylum policy in Europe which concern is sharpened as we approach 1992 by virtue of the fact that an anonymous committee of the Community may well decide for us what our asylum policy should be. There would be general agreement throughout the House that in the light of the Gulf War, of the fact that there seems to be a policy of random arrest and export back, simply on the basis of nationality, of Iraqis and Palestinians to the Middle East——
I cannot allow the Senator to continue to debate the motion at this stage.
It is a matter of concern for those reasons. In the same way I support the call for a debate on the Middle East, during which it would be possible to clarify at some length and in some detail Senator Mooney's partially informed views of the gas mask system. I sincerely hope he will express his great concern that the European Community found it appropriate to classify gas masks as war material when they were supposed to be supplied to the Israelis.
If I can intrude upon the Senator for a moment, please.
For just a moment.
If the Senator has a question will he put it to the Leader of the House?
Will the Leader of the House allow time for clarification of dangerous and misleading statements which were made in this House, on Radio Éireann and in the newspapers concerning the question of gas masks and their supply to the population both of Israel and the occupied territories?
I join with Senator Neville in hoping that Item No. 7 on the supplementary Order Paper, in the name of the Progressive Democrats, dealing with the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis being held in the Mansion House will be moved by them at an early date because this may embarrass Fianna Fáil Members of Dublin Corporation in the light of their sleight-of-hand which allowed this year's Ard Fheis to be held there.
On a point of order, not for the first time Senator Norris has accused me of telling lies to the House. In fairness, I feel——
In fairness, he did not mention the word "lie".
On the record of the House two weeks ago he did.
That may be so but I suggest to the Senator that he should not be provoked or baited by Senator Norris.
I ask for the protection of the Chair simply because I have referred to what is obviously an official statement from the EC that they are supplying 1.5 million gas masks to the Palestinians. I see no problem about it.
It is not a point of order. As I say, do not be provoked by Senator Norris.
Ask him to step outside.
Ba mhaith liom comhghairdeas a dhéanamh, agus buíochas a ghabháil le Pól Ó Foighil. If we keep going the way we are we will need gas masks in the House.
I represent a county that depends to a large degree on agriculture but the future for agriculture was never more uncertain. There are varying views on the degree of uncertainty and the extent of losses to Irish agriculture. The confidence of farmers is being eroded.
A question Senator.
Does the leader of the House propose to have a debate on agriculture in the very near future?
I join in extending congratulations to Senator Ó Foighil. He embarked on a campaign to have a translation system introduced here. We are all delighted that the campaign has been successful and that the translation system will be introduced.
I support the sentiments expressed by Senator Murphy. We in the Fine Gael Party look forward to an early debate on Northern Ireland and we support his request. I support the request made by Senator Byrne for a discussion as soon as possible on the dire situation in agriculture. Can the Leader of the House confirm that the local elections will take place this year? We are very interested to know the answer to that question.
Be prepared. We know not the hour.
Will the committee set up to examine the much publicised matter of local government reform have reported before the local elections and will that report be made available to Members of this House? Further, will the Leader of the House request the Government to examine the possibility of having local elections held on a Sunday? Many people cannot avail of their democratic right to vote as they may be working away from home. Also, many young people who are on the register at home but are away in college do not have an opportunity to vote. If the local elections were held on a Sunday as a trial run, perhaps at a later stage we could extend it to general elections as well.
Tá sé cuí comhghairdeas a dhéanamh leis na daoine go léir maidir leis an éacht atá déanta chun córas aistriúcháin a chur ar fáil dúinn, agus do dhaoine nach raibh an seans acu an Ghaeilge bheith chomh líofa acu agus a ba mhian leo. Tá se thar a bheith in am agus tá mé cinnte gur de thoradh an obair mhaith atá déanta ag cuid mhaith daoine, an t-iar-Chathaoirleach a bhí sa Chathaoir sin romhat, a Chathaoirligh, ina mease, a rinne éacht chun na spriocanna céanna a bhaint amach. Is comhartha de shaghas éigin den ambivalence, mar a déarfá, atá ag cur dúinn sa tír seo faoin teanga nár chuimhnigh muid ar an gcóras seo go dtí le déanaí, agus go raibh ar an Seanadóir Ó Foighil dul chomh fada agus ab fhéidir, agus beagáinin níos faide ó am go ham, taobh istigh de rialacha an Tí seo, chun an géarghá seo a chur ar ár súile dúinn. Tá an-jab déanta, agus déanta go seoigh, ag na Seanadóir O Foighil, agus déanaim comhghairdeas leis.
I appreciate Senator Byrne's feelings about the fog of words that has ascended on the House. I support my colleague, Senator O'Toole, and a number of other speakers who suggested we should have another look at the appalling tragedy that is evolving. There are a number of specific issues that are particularly worthy of analysis. One is the debasement of a free press which is a long term worry to all of us who believe passionately in a free press. A free press is a press that is able to say things that I and other people violently disagree with. It is not freedom to agree. Perhaps my colleagues, Senators Mooney and Cassidy who have a great interest in the entertainment world might join with me in this, that the most-eloquent statement made recently about the war was made by Sinead O'Connor with considerable courage and bravery. It was eloquent in its simplicity and she deserves our congratulations for refusing to participate in awards which would and could be used to glorify war.
A question, Senator.
The question is to the Leader to have yet another debate on the appalling war. May I ask him when will we have the debate he promised us before Christmas on the prison system? I am not asking for it today or tomorrow. I know he has not forgotten his commitment but I just want to remind him that we have not forgotten it either.
I am astonished that there would be suggestions that a political party be refused access to have its Ard Fheis. If a party is wrong then let——
I cannot allow the Senator to go down that road at this time. If the Senator has a question, put it to the Leader of the House.
What about the Army Council coming into the meeting——
There is a foreign station breaking in there.
My tuner is a bit more finely tuned than the Cathaoirleach's.
I ask the Senator to put the question to the Leader of the House and assist us in getting to the business.
If the Leader of the House is going to have a debate on that issue it should be on whether that political party should be allowed to function because that is the issue and not the restrictions on its activities. I ask the Leader, in conjunction with a number of my colleagues, to have a debate on agriculture which reflects not just the magnificent global figures that are quoted here but the distribution of income within the farming community and the loading of agricultural income in favour of the privileged 20 per cent at the expense of the other 80 per cent which is perhaps the greatest scandal in agriculture.
Would the Leader of the House allow us to have a debate on the appalling occupation of East Timor by the ally of the United States, Indonesia, which has resulted in the deaths of perhaps 100,000 people under appalling conditions, the annexation of a separate community with no identifiable links with Indonesia which was done——
The Senator has put the question. He does not need to make a statement further to putting the question.
I accept the Chair's ruling. The only reason I felt obliged to make a statement is because most people have forgotten about East Timor. I support my colleagues who asked for a debate on the changes in South Africa but I suggest to the Leader that he be very careful if he words a motion like that. Apartheid will not have ended until everybody has a vote of equal weight in a single election in South Africa.
The Senator does not have the support of the House in the remarks he is making which are not appropriate to the Order of Business. I simply want to remind Members that it is their time that is being lost and I ask for their assistance in ensuring that the Order of Business is dealt with in an efficient and effective way.
I support Senator Byrne's request for a debate on agriculture. When will items Nos. 1 and 2 be taken? They are on the Order Paper, for a long time. Item No. 2 would probably have been disposed of by now but for controversy which arose through a radio programme. I congratulate the former President for employing one of the sacked employees at Áras an Uachtaráin.
This is out of order, Senator.
I am surprised that such a sacking was done by the President in view of the——
Out of order.
In 1981 she raised the question of a transfer——
This is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
This is absolutely disgraceful.
She did not obey the ruling of the Chair at the time. She pursued the issue.
I ask the Senator to desist. Leave presidential matters to the President.
The President was inconsistent in doing what she did.
This is not a matter for the Order of Business.
It should be.
I wish to put on the record of the House my impression of the last statement: sour grapes, that is what it is all about.
I cannot allow this.
Resume your seats. I am going to attempt to get some order restored in the House. In the meantime, I ask for the co-operation of all Members for the last time. I now call Senator Ryan.
It was my intention to briefly and strongly support the plea of Senator O'Reilly for an urgent debate on the escalating crisis in the health service. As a former health board member for 14 years, I can appreciate the concern of the staff in all our hospitals——
A question, Senator, for the Leader of the House.
It is a matter of urgency for the common people of this country. It is a national issue and a national crisis and it should be given urgent priority.
I agree with the comments made about Senator Pól Ó Foighil and the fact that we will have a gleas astriucháin in this House. The Leader pursued that objective for many months. I, as former Leader, pursued that objective. We should not let this pass without giving due recognition to the former, Seanadóir, Nicholas Ó Conchubhair, from Galway. It may be that the present Leader has more influence in certain places than I had as Leader, but I cannot allow this opportunity to pass without mentioning Nioclás Ó Conchubhair because he did a tremendous job in trying to get an gléas aistriúcháin installed, it was the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, under the chairmanship of the Leas-Cathaoirleach, Senator Liam Naughten. It was Seanadóir Nioclás Ó Conchubhair who initially encouraged it.
The question of a debate on the Middle East has been raised. I have never heard an objection to a debate on foreign affairs in this House in my time or in the present Leader's time. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and his junior Minister have come into this House. I have heard it said on the far side of the House that we spend too much time talking about foreign affairs. I agree that there should be a debate——
Who said it?
The question of East Timor has been raised and I can guarantee it will be taken in this House. Mention was made of Sineád O'Connor's attitude. My son is acknowledged as being one of the people who gave Sineád O'Connor her——
Sinéad O'Connor has no relevance to this House that I am aware of.
She is totally irrelevant to debates on foreign affairs.
Will Senator Lanigan put a question to the Leader?
I ask the Leader to acknowledge the requests made for a debate on foreign affairs. I have no doubt that he will allow it.
I want to ask the Leader what is the position with regard to agriculture. We had a debate on this matter some months ago but now there is a crisis in agriculture. I would remind the Leader of the House that shortly after that debate I and other people requested a further discussion.
Has the Senator a question for the Leader of the House? As far as I can see, advantage is being taken of the latitude that I am giving to Members. I will not allow it to continue. We will withdraw any assistance that was available if this is the way we treat the business of the House.
The crisis has become greater since the last debate——
The Senator must put a question.
Does the Leader of the House intend to have a debate on an area that is extremely critical and where many farmers are faced in 1991——
The Senator is making a speech. He must put a question to the Leader of the House.
Does the Leader realise that many farmers in 1991 will have a nil income? Does he appreciate that? Is that appreciated by the Government and, if so, will there be a clear-cut debate at an early date on it? Will the Leader agree to a request put forward by Senators O'Reilly and Ryan for an urgent and immediate debate on the health services?
When will it be possible to have a debate on the issue of foreign adoptions? I am particularly concerned about the fact that in excess of 300 people have brought Romanian children into this country. There are problems, for example, when they want to take them on holidays they do not have an EC passport as Romania is outside the EC. Legislation should be introduced as soon as possible and the issue of single parent adoptions should be incorporated into it. When will we have a debate on this very urgent matter? I understand that in the other House Deputy Shatter has introduced a Bill but there are some shortfalls in it. It is a matter that is in urgent need of redress.
As regards item No. 7 on the Order Paper in the name of the Progressive Democrats, I support Senator Brendan Ryan. If Senator Ryan wants to see gunmen in the Mansion House it is appropriate that he should come into this House and explain to us why they should be there. It is appropriate that we should debate that motion, not only because of Senator Ryan's point of view but because of the Government's point of view on that. It is appropriate that we should hear the Government's viewpoint on Provisional Sinn Féin acting as a pseudo political party——
Will the Senator put his question to the Leader of the House, please?
It is totally——
I cannot hear Senator O'Keeffe. If he wants to make a point he should stand up.
Senator Ross, do not be provoked by Senator O'Keeffe.
It is appropriate for Senator Ryan to be sitting on this side of the House at this particular juncture.
Allow Senator Ross to continue. If Senator Ross does not restrict himself I will cause him to discontinue.
I will move on from the Government's position on item No. 7. I endorse what Senator Manning said about having a debate on South Africa. It is appropriate and we have the time. I congratulate the Leader of the House on the introduction of the Environmental Protection Agency Bill but I think we still have time to debate a motion on South Africa. It is appropriate that we recognise the changes which are taking place in South Africa particularly since the Government have taken such a sanctimonious position on South Africa while continuing to help its friends to trade with Iraq. That is something which I think——
The Senator is making a speech again.
I am simply asking the Leader of the House for a debate and I am supplementing that by giving the reasons why that debate should take place.
I ask for a debate on Northern Ireland. I gather that a request to debate what is happening in Northern Ireland was refused in the other House. I deeply regret that. It is appropriate because of the accepted wisdom that there is intransigence north of the Border on the talks which are going on now that our own Government's position on the so-called Brooke talks should be examined by this House.
After all that has been said, it is very appropriate that I should congratulate Deputy Brendan Daly on his appointment as Minister for Defence. I am delighted. I am quite sure, as spokesperson on Defence in this House, that the Army and their families will from now on be well looked after.
Níl mé ag iarraidh an obair mhaith a rinne an Seanadóir a laghdú ach gabhaim buíochas freisin leis na Seanadóirí eile agus leat féin as ucht an chabhair agus an tacaíocht a tugadh chun an córas aistriúcháin a chur ar siúl sa Seanad.
I would like to support these expressions of congratulation to our new Minister, Deputy Brendan Daly, on his appointment and I wish him well in the future. I want to congratulate wholeheartedly Deputy Chris Flood on his appointment as Minister for State at the Department of Health. It is a great honour for his family, his constituency and for his native County Westmeath. He is from north Westmeath.
I want to point out to the House that the House has not been officially notified of the appointments we have heard about. I hoped that when we were given official notification the House would take the opportunity to wish the individuals well. I appreciate that it is of special importance to Senator Honan who comes from the constituency of Minister Daly that she should be given a moment here, and rightly so. I did that because of her special position and relationship to the Minister in their constituency. Please, Senator, if you accept my views on this you will conclude.
Of course, I do. That is why I got up to congratulate Deputy Chris Flood, because he comes from Castlepollard. Having said that, I want to make a remark in support of the Leas-Chathaoirleach in relation to having polling day on weekends. It would not be feasible to have it on a Sunday because all religions do not vote on a Sunday. I propose that we have it on a Saturday.
There will be an opportunity for you to debate this when the Bill comes before the House. In the meantime, confine yourself to putting a question to the Leader of the House.
Can I say, a Chathaoirligh, that you are a little bit harsh on the Government side. You seem to give all the time in the world to the Opposition. I make a one minute contribution — I always accepted your word, as you will appreciate——
That attack on the Cathaoirleach is unjustified.
In future I will restrict all sides. I have been very lenient with everybody. I am trying to urge you into a situation where we can conclude the Order of Business and get on with the business of the House. The Minister of State at the Department of the Environment has been waiting here for some considerable time. We have on many occasions in the past complained about the fact that Ministers were not on time. On this occasion the Minister has been here for a quite considerable length of time. I am sure you want to debate the important legislation.
You have said what I was about to ask the Leader of the House, that in view of the frequent and justifiable complaints about Ministers and junior Ministers keeping the House waiting if it would be appropriate — I am sure the Leader would agree — to apologise to the Minister for the Environment for keeping her waiting.
So are you——
I do not think that sort of spasmodic snorting becomes Senator Ross.
What has happened on the backbench over there is despicable.
I have the responsibility of maintaining order in this House.
Senator Ross has been despicable.
I am not at all happy with the way Senator Ross attempted to communicate with Senator Dardis. If there are any deficiencies or defects in Senator Ross I have no responsibility for them.
I appreciate your spirit of indulgence this afternoon. In that spirit I will not repeat the statements that have been made in relation to asking the Leader for a debate on Agriculture other than to join with him and to allow us to clarify this situation for some of the Senators opposite who appear to have some difficulties about the matter. There is one final matter. Perhaps, a Cathaoirligh, from where you are sitting you are in a better position than the Leader to judge these matters. Senator Murphy wondered about the fact that there was not suitable seating for him at a previous sitting. From where you are sitting, Sir, can you observe that there has been a sufficient movement to the centre by the Labour benches to allow room for a seat for Senator Murphy.
I call on the Leader of the House, Senator Séan Fallon, to reply.
We are now an hour and five minutes on the Order of Business. I have to suggest that many of the matters raised by many Senators were totally inappropriate to the Order of Business. There is no chance of some of them being raised. Certainly we will look at many of them and see what we can do. Senators raising these matters knew in their hearts they were just getting up to speak. I do not think it is appropriate for a House of the Oireachtas to continue like this. Certainly I am not impressed.
Senator Manning asked for a debate on South Africa. We had a debate on South Africa some time ago, a fairly long and worthwhile debate, an excellent debate, in fact. I have no plans for a debate on South Africa in the very near future. Reference was made to Senator Ó Foighil and his campaign. I congratulate him for that and also, as Senator Lanigan said, Nioclás Ó Conchubhair, a former Senator, and, indeed, a former Cathaoirleach and Leader, who was very active in the early days in having this service brought into being.
Senator O'Toole asked about the Environmental Protection Agency and asked that we might sit late this evening. I have indicated that we are sitting this evening on this Bill. We could have had a half an hour of it over by now if Senators were fair. I certainly will consider his point for next week. I believe it will go on next week. It is a Bill in which many Senators have expressed an interest. On this side of the House alone, we probably have another 16, 18 or 19 speakers and the same, I know, applies to the other side. Certainly we will not have a late sitting today but we can think about it for next week. Senator O'Toole also asked for an extension of Private Members' Time. I have no plan for an extension at this time. He also asked for a debate on education. Again, I have to say I have no plans for a debate on that.
Many speakers asked for a continuation of the debate on the Gulf. We had a full debate on that two weeks ago. We have no plan for a further debate on that. We have very important legislation to discuss for the rest of this month. I have always said that my priority was legislation. We have the very important Environmental Protection Agency Bill that we are very pleased to have in this House and we plan, and rightly so, to do justice to that Bill. We also have the important legislation which many people are crying out for, the Child Care Bill. That will be taken as a priority during this month.
Senator Mooney talked about the Gulf war and South Africa and he asked about developments in the EC. Again I have to say there are no plans for a debate. Senator O'Reilly expressed anxiety about the health boards and health matters. I say there is no plan for Government time for a debate on health. We will have, hopefully this month, a continuation of the debate on the Appropriation Bill. Surely that is one way he can do it. The other way, as the Cathaoirleach rightly pointed out, is in Private Members' Time if he wishes to use that. Equally, I have no plan, as Senator Murphy requested, for a debate on Northern Ireland, He also mentioned the Gulf war.
Senator Cullen asked about a foreign affairs committee. In regard to this committee there are ongoing discussions with the Taoiseach and other parties. I hope that there will be Seanad representation on this committee. Again, he asked about matters dealing with South Africa. I have no plans, Senator Neville, for a debate on item No. 7. Senator Norris talked about a Dáil or all-party foreign affairs committee. I repeat what I said earlier. I am hopeful that there will be Seanad representation on this. He also asked for a Middle East debate and for a debate on item No. 7.
Senator Hugh Byrne asked for a debate on agriculture and he spoke to me about it. Although we had a debate perhaps six weeks ago on agriculture, there is widespread support for such a debate. I have indicated to many Members that on Government time when we get an opportunity it will be the first thing we will debate. I accept that there are problems in the whole area of GATT, the CAP. As far as I am concerned when we get an opportunity we will look at the possibility of a debate in Government time.
Senator Naughten referred to agriculture and local elections. All I can say is that the elections are due to be held this year. I have noted what the Senator has said in regard to Sunday polling.
Senator Ryan paid tribute to Senator Ó Foighil. He asked about a debate on the Gulf and he mentioned the prison system. This is something on which I have personally given assurances to some of the Senators on the other side. Senator Harte raised the matter in a very positive and diplomatic way some time ago and I am very anxious to facilitate him I will do that at the first opportunity. He also asked about agriculture and he mentioned lowering of farm incomes. Obviously that can be dealt with in the debate.
Senator Rory Kiely asked for a debate on agriculture. I have no plans to take Items No. 1 and 2 at this point in time. Senator John Ryan asked for a debate on health. Again, the same reply goes to him as I gave to Senator O'Reilly. It can be done on Private Members' time or on the Appropriation Bill.
Senator Lanigan also referred to a point that there was never in his time difficulties in getting debates from time to time on matters like foreign affairs or relief matters. That still is the way but it is a question now of getting legislation first and when we find we have time certainly those matters can be taken. Senator Hourigan referred to agriculture and he knows my reply on that.
Senator O'Donovan asked about foreign adoptions and Romanian adoptions in particular. There is no Bill in place. I know the Minister is concerned about this matter and I believe I am right in saying he is considering legislation dealing with it. Obviously we must await developments here.
Senator Ross asked for a debate on South Africa and Northern Ireland. As I have said, I have no plans in those areas. Senator Honan congratulated Minister Daly, and rightly so. Senator Willie Farrell's comments were noted. Senator Cassidy made several points. I wondered was he anxious about "Scrap Saturday"?
