Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 May 1991

Vol. 129 No. 4

Death of Councillor Fullerton. - Order of Business.

Mrs. Fallon

It is proposed to take item No. 2 — the Finance Bill, 1991 — and item No. 3. In regard to item No. 2 it is proposed by agreement, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Minister for Finance be called on not later than 1.15 p.m. to conclude the Second Stage debate; and that the proceedings on the Committee Stage and the remaining Stages of the Bill and on the motion of concurrence with the earlier signature of the Bill by the President, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 6 p.m. by one question which will then be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to recommendations, include only recommendations set down by the Government.

It is further proposed that we will have a sos from approximately 1.40 p.m. or 1.45 p.m. to 2.30 p.m.

Mrs. Doyle

I note the Leader's statement on the Order of Business today and I have no difficulty with the logistics. However, there is one point I would like to put to the Leader and that is my general concern about the relevance of this House particularly in relation to the Finance Bill; it is pertinent today as we finish Second Stage and go on to Committee Stage. We are all probably aware that the annual publications from the various institutes in relation to advice on money matters and taxation are already on our bookshelves. The Taxation Advice Bureau have published their booklet on the Finance Bill, 1991, and the layman's guide to same. We know the difficulties we have; but great play is made of the fact that outside this House people feel that what we are doing here today is virtually irrelevant because the information is on the shelves, the de facto guide to the Finance Bill — presumed to be the Finance Act without the Seanad having even seen it — is available to the public. I would like to know the Leader's view on this and ask him if he feels this is the correct treatment for the work we are about to do in the Seanad today in relation to this most important legislation, or are we totally irrelevant?

Mr. O'Toole

I have no objection to the Order of Business as proposed in terms of dealing with the issues that need to be dealt with, but I want to ask the Leader of the House about the legislation which will be taken between now and the end of the session. We need a clear indication also of the sitting days over the next month or so. It is quite difficult to adjust to sudden changes in the programme as they arise. For instance, I know that in order to be here today people had to make changes. I have no problem with sitting on a Tuesday, Friday or Monday, but it is a matter of having advance notice. I know the Leader of the House wants to make arrangements around the week of the local elections, for instance, and that other arrangements need to be made at other times. It would be useful if we could have some diary of what is likely to be taken over the next six weeks or so.

Mr. Norris

I would like to ask a couple of questions of the Leader of the House. First, taking into account the serious riot that took place in Parnell Street over the weekend, together with a similar incident which took place outside the Harp Bar in O'Connell Street, and the concern expressed by district justices at the inadequacy of the law in allowing the imposition only of a £2 fine, have the Government any plans to introduce reforming legislation in this area to allow an appropriate fine to be exacted against people who terrorise the residents of the inner city? Have the Government any plans to support the Garda for whom it must be a most demoralising experience to arrest young thugs and then find they are let off with a £2 fine?

In view of the very seasonable and pleasant weather we have been having, does the House feel it is appropriate that while the gardaí are, quite correctly, allowed to wear summer uniform and rolled up sleeves, the ushers of this House are not so permitted?

An Cathaoirleach

It is not a matter for the Order of Business of the House.

Mr. Norris

I ask the Leader of the House to bear this in mind.

Following from the principal item of business for this morning, the Finance Bill, and the remarks made by Senator Doyle, may I say how much I welcome the fact that the Leader has very clearly placed on the record the Order of Business. Would the Leader comment on a report in The Sunday Press which says that “Fianna Fáil outflanks lecturers” and suggests that the business of this House is being ordered by the Government in order to make it impossible for University Senators to take part in debates, and that it is a quite inaccurate report that some of us will actually be speaking today——

An Cathaoirleach

Senator Fallon never doubted but that it was inaccurate.

Mr. Norris

Indeed I know that Senator Fallon will be able to point out to The Sunday Press that this is grossly inaccurate and is contemptuous of the Government side suggesting that they would, or indeed, Sir, that you would permit such a capricious ordering of Government business.

An Cathaoirleach

I would deal with you differently.

Mr. Norris

I would also like to ask, if I may, when it is proposed to have a debate on Northern Ireland. The situation there is clearly tragic. I would have wished to join in the expression of sympathy for Councillor Fullerton, particularly since I am frequently accused of siding with only one side in this issue. I would welcome the opportunity of a debate in which the anomalies of the Sinn Féin position with the ballot box in one hand and the Armalite in the other could be made very clear to the people of Ireland.

Mr. Fallon

Senator Doyle expressed concern about the Finance Bill. What we are doing today, and were doing last week is precisely what we done in regard to the Finance Bill over the years. I do not think that because we are doing that the House is irrelevant or anything like that. We have a function in legislation. The Finance Bill is important legislation and we are carrying out our duties.

Senator O'Toole asked for a programme. Obviously, we are aware of what we have for this week. In the weeks ahead we will be taking Report Stage of the Environmental Protection Agency Bill, the Competition Bill, the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill — we will be taking those Bills in June. Senator O'Toole also asked about sittings for the future, particularly for the month of June. This is a matter for the Whips to agree on and I am sure the Whips will come to an agreement on that. I will be watching it, but I can assure the Senator that we will be sitting on most Wednesdays and Thursdays of June. He also asked about the week of the local elections. Again, that is something for the Whips to decide. I think it would be the wish of the vast majority of Senators on all sides of the House that we will not sit for the week of the important local elections. However, that is purely for the Whips to agree on.

I share Senator Norris's concern regarding the problem he raised. Certainly, I would have to refute what he said. In my opinion the Government always support the Garda in their duties.

In regard to the other comment about The Sunday Press, the record of the House is there. We have called for business on Fridays over the last few weeks because there was a lot of business to be conducted. As far as we were concerned as a party, we certainly had our numbers present, as indeed had the other parties.

Mr. O'Toole

And all the Whips agreed.

Mr. Fallon

Absolutely. The Whips agreed to it. There is nothing strange in what we did. It was a decision of the House and of the Whips to do so.

Order of Business agreed to.