Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 20 Nov 1991

Vol. 130 No. 9

Order of Business.

Mr. Fallon

Before I deal with the Order of Business for today I would like on behalf of all the Members of the House to extend sympathy to the wife and family of former Senator Dalgan Lyons, who died recently. I also express the sympathy of the House to the wife, family and colleagues of Corporal Michael McCarthy who, tragically, was killed on a peace-keeping mission with UNIFIL. Coming as I do from an Army town that has had, unfortunately, its share of fatalities overseas over the past number of years, I know full well the grief this killing brings to the family and friends of those who are killed.

I turn now to the Order of Business for today: Item No. 1 — all Stages of the Liability for Defective Products Bill, 1991 to 6 p.m.; there will be a sos from 6 p.m. to 6.30 p.m. following by Item No. 12, Motion 36, from 6.30 p.m. until 8 p.m.

An Cathaoirleach

I suggest, if the House agrees, that the leaders of the groups in the House might wish to be associated with the votes of sympathy as proposed by Senator Fallon.

Mrs. Doyle

I would like to concur and second the motion of sympathy to the wife and family of the late Senator Dalgan Lyons. Dalgan served with distinction not only in this House but also in the Dáil and on behalf of all my colleagues I would like to be associated with the sentiments of the Leader of the House, Senator Fallon.

We would like to be associated also with the words of sympathy to the wife and very young family of the late Corporal Michael McCarthy who was so tragically killed on UNIFIL duty recently. An incident such as this reminds us all of the risk, and indeed the bravery, of all those serving in the Defence Forces overseas — a point which at times we are inclined to forget, particularly if they are in a peace-keeping role and not actively involved in wartime.

On the Order of Business, may I through you, a Chathaoirligh, ask the Leader of the House to give the House today a date for the Maastricht debate? He very kindly promised the House a debate prior to the Maastricht Summit. As the weeks close on the Maastricht meeting we would like assurances of when the debate will be held in his House and assurances that it will be a long and considered debate on perhaps one of the most important matters we could be discussing that will affect not just our lives but indeed those of our children and our children's children for years to come if the country does not get it right and if Maastricht does not get it right.

May I ask the Leader of the House also what progress is being made in relation to the two announcements made recently by the Taoiseach concerning an EC affairs committee and the foreign affairs committee he promised last week? I have checked specifically the answer to the parliamentary question and he has promised a full foreign affairs committee as well as a revamped EC affairs committee. I would like to know what contact the Leader of the House has had with his colleagues in the other House, and indeed with his party Whip, to know the state of play and if he could inform this House weekly on the progress regarding the setting up of both these committees. While revamping, if you like, the terms of reference of the EC committee and the setting up of a foreign affairs committee, all sides of this House have called for a very long time for a broad foreign affairs committee.

We welcome the announcements by the Taoiseach but do not want to see the matter left any longer or put on the long finger over the Christmas break before we know what is happening. We have expressed frustration with our inability to debate wide foreign affairs matters, not just EC matters but matters such as the Yugoslav problem and, further afield, the difficulties in the Third World. If we had these committees many of the debates that all Members of this House wish to participate in could be siphoned through these committees. I would like if the Leader of the House would consider a weekly monitoring of the situation and keep us up to date on a weekly basis on the progress on the setting up of both these important committees.

Mr. O'Toole

Senator Ryan will deal with the votes of sympathy on behalf of the independent group.

On the other matters, I would like to put on record that I am totally frustrated with the operation of the House. I have asked over the last number of weeks for a number of specific things to be dealt with. It is disgraceful, particularly at a time when the other House is so busy, that no legislation is being introduced in this House and that there is no indication that any legislation will be introduced here. For the fourth week in succession I ask the Leader to indicate to me the items of legislation it is proposed to initiate in this House. Our role has been downgraded over the past months and it is time we put the boot in. I suggest that either we have a meeting with the Government Whip to deal with that or else we just capitulate completely. I draw attention to the fact that there does not seem to be any Whips meetings any more in order to work out the business for successive weeks and it is important that that should be done.

I wonder if the Government parties are totally out of touch with what is happening in the world out there? For three, four or five weeks we have been asking for a debate on the Maastricht Summit. Decisions will be taken next month and they will be screaming on the Government benches as well when they will see what has happened, what we may have missed out on, what we have refused to address and what we have refused to consider. The decisions made at Maastricht will affect the future generations of this country for as long as we can see into the future. It is a disgrace and an abrogation of responsibility that we have not got a commitment to a debate on this matter at this stage and not the week of the summit or the week after the summit. I would like to have a clear commitment on this topic.

Dr. Upton

May I join in the expression of sympathy to the family of the late Dalgan Lyons, who represented Mayo both in this House and in the other House for many years?

I would also like to be associated with the words of sympathy to the family of the late Michael McCarthy who was killed on duty with UNIFIL. It is only at times like this that we fully realise the tremendous work our Army does overseas in its peace-keeping role; indeed it is only at times like this we were made fully aware of the risks that are part and parcel of the work they do.

I would also like to express my wishes for a speedy recovery to Michael McCarthy's colleague who was wounded in the same incident.

May I also express my regret at the closure of Century Radio Station? I thought the people who worked at Century Radio did a very good job and I am sorry to see 50 jobs gone. The news service which that station operated was first class and I am sorry to see it go. On that note, may I ask the Leader of the House to convey again to the Government my request that even at this stage they would consider publishing a White Paper on broadcasting so that the various issues in relation to broadcasting can be debated in an objective manner?

Finally, a Chathaoirligh, I understand Senator Lanigan's mother died recently and I would like to express my sympathy to him on that sad event.

Mr. Dardis

May I join with other Members of the House and on behalf of my party, the Progressive Democrats, in expressing our sympathy to the family of the late Senator Lyons. In particular, I want to express our sympathy to the family of Corporal Michael McCarthy and also to his colleagues in the Fourth Infantry Batallion. This is a very sad incident and underlines once again the credit our Army brings to our country internationally through its service in UN duties. In this case the ultimate sacrifice has been paid and this House must recognise that sacrifice and the contribution the Army plays in promoting international peace.

I would also share the expressions of good wishes to Private Richard McGrath, who was wounded in the incident. There is a third person whom I would like to single out, with your permission, a Chathaoirligh, and that is Private Camillus Ryan, a medical orderly, and who showed, I am told, extraordinary bravery in this incident in attempting to get to his fallen colleagues and to bring them back. I think he deserves the commendation of everybody in this House.

Mr. Naughten

I wish to support the other Members of the House who have called for a debate before the EC Summit. It is of vital importance that such a debate should take place here within the next number of days.

I want to ask the Leader of the House, through you, a Chathaoirligh, if he would inform the House when local authorities will be notified about the rates support grant. Many local authorities are in the process of discussing their estimates, which have been drafted on the assumption that the rates support grant is going to be the same as last year. Local authorities do not know what the rates support grant will be and many of them have to adopt their estimates within the next week. They find themselves in the unreal situation of having to adopt their estimates within the next week without knowing what is the rates support grant. Will the Leader of the House inform us when local authorities will be notified about the grant and, if they are not notified this week, will the Minister extend the statutory time available to local authorities to adopt their estimates?

Mr. Mooney

I am sure all of us share the expressions of sympathy to the families of the deceased. I could not help but reflect on the expressions of sympathy to the Irish soldier who was so tragically and needlessly killed in Lebanon. I hope that needless death will help to concentrate yet again the minds of all those involved in the fact that it is long past time that the Israeli-backed South Lebanon militia were disbanded and that the writ of the UN, particularly where the Irish are involved in South Lebanon, be allowed to run without having to face what is now yet again another tragedy. However, I know that is no comfort to the young wife and family concerned or to the injured soldier.

I am glad Senator Upton raised the issue of Century Radio. Does the Leader of the House share the serious concern expressed and the equally serious concern at the situation of Irish broadcasting following the closure of Century Radio? Is he able to tell the House when the Broadcasting Bill amendments will be coming to this House for discussion? Will he convey, through the Minister, to the Irish Radio and Television Commission their heavy responsibility to ensure that the national radio franchise is advertised without delay? I would also like to request the Leader to convey to the Minister the deep concern regarding what has now become a debacle in Irish broadcasting. The Irish Radio and Television Commission should ensure that they seriously question prospective applicants for the national franchise on their programming priorities. I believe it is not simply management problems that closed Century Radio but market forces.

An Cathaoirleach

That is the question, is it?

Mr. Mooney

In the context of my question.

An Cathaoirleach

It is hard to put it into context.

Mr. Mooney

I have been learning from my illustrious colleagues on the other side of the House.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Mooney

I am always glad to listen. I am asking the question in the context of when the broadcasting legislation will come before the House. My final point is, there is more broadcasting in Ireland than Classic Hits 98FM.

Mr. B. Ryan

Or country music.

Mr. Mooney

I could respond to Senator Ryan because he is giving me an appropriate platform to go down that road. My point is——

An Cathaoirleach

We cannot allow a debate on Century Radio.

Mr. Mooney

I accept that. My point is that two-thirds of the population of this country, mainly concentrated on the east coast, want more than wall-to-wall pop and rock music. If it be country music, or folk music or any alternative——

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Mooney

I am sure Senator Ryan and others would agree that this country has been badly served by Century Radio, although I am sorry for the people who have lost their jobs. I am sorry especially for a constituent of mine.

An Cathaoirleach

I will have to terminate the debate.

Mr. Mooney

She was not of my party but she has lost her job. I am sorry she and her colleagues have lost their jobs and I hope their talents will be used by other stations.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator Mooney, this is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Mr. B. Ryan

May I say that perhaps it would be more decorous if we had separated the expressions of sympathy from the general debate on the Order of Business. I also thought we had an agreement that only one spokesperson for each group would speak.

An Cathaoirleach

Yes, I made that point at the outset and I can only hope for co-operation. Senator Mooney was late obviously.

Mr. B. Ryan

I would like on behalf of our group to be associated with the expressions of sympathy. I am the only speaker from our group on this motion.

In regard to the former Senator Lyons, I always think the death of a former Member is a timely reminder to us all about our mortality and the relatively passing nature of our activities here and should cool us all down, including myself, when we are inclined to get too worked up about our importance.

In regard to the death of Corporal McCarthy, there is a particular tragedy in the death of someone who works in the name of peace. The capacity of our contingent in southern Lebanon to keep the peace and to create an atmosphere of peace was well recorded by Bob Fisk when he received his Jacobs Award and made a special point of paying tribute to UNIFIL and the Irish contingent in that force. Our group would like to be associated with the words of sympathy to his family.

I would also like to commend the Minister for Foreign Affairs for his prompt request to the Israeli Ambassador that they would deal with their proxy forces who have been responsible for this. I ask the leader to convey my view to the Minister that I agree fully with him on that issue.

May I also ask the Leader, in support of the request of my colleague, Senator O'Keeffe, on past occasions, for some progress on a debate on the banking system. I will give as an illustration a short quote:

For the past nine months small Irish enterprises have been throttled by the banks who have literally pirated their internal cashflow in order to reduce their exposure to industry.

If I did not know where that came from I would have thought it came from something like Militant Weekly, but it is from an editorial in the Sunday Business Post. When the newspaper that speaks to business talks like that about the banking system it is high time the Oireachtas responded. I appeal to the Leader to give a specific date as to when we are going to have such a debate.

I agree fully with my colleague, Senator O'Toole, that we must have a debate on Maastricht. The issue is most important but the presumption that there is a monopoly of wisdom over in Iveagh House or in the Department of the Taoiseach and nowhere else is untrue. We are walking into something and the nation is blindfolded. We need to have a debate, not just to go through a ritual, because not of the possibility but the probability that there are views in both Houses of the Oireachtas that have been omitted, forgotten or badly understood by those who represent us in Maastricht. That is a reality of life. It is not a party political criticism. We badly need to introduce this issue into the Seanad for political debate and I would appeal to the leader in this regard.

I conclude by putting on the record of the House the fact that in a book which I discussed with you earlier you were recognised as the best jiver the author of Jiving at the Crossroads has seen.

An Cathaoirleach

The Cathaoirleach may not be introduced into the Order of Business debate.

Mr. Cassidy

I wish to be associated with the expression of sympathy including that in respect of Senator Lanigan's mother. I wish also to say how sorry I was to hear of Century Radio going off the air last night. They tried very hard, despite the various ideas that many people may have on the matter.

I would like to ask the leader if he would approach the Minister concerned and ask him if he will bring the Broadcasting Bill in this House first. There were very many contributions on the previous Bill when it came here. Many points were made, but a number of us felt that the Bill had passed through the Dáil and that the various points that were raised could not be taken into account at that stage. I would like the leader to use his good offices with the Minister to introduce that Bill in this House. There is much expertise here that could contribute enormously to the Bill.

Mr. Cosgrave

I wish to mention two matters on the Order of Business. Firstly, I fully support the expression of sympathy in relation to Corporal Michael McCarthy, but I think we should go further and support the call of the Minister for Foreign Affairs in demanding that those who perpetrated this killing be brought to justice. We should also seek compensation from Israel. For far too long there has been a softly, softly, approach in respect of this matter.

Secondly, as our Communications spokesman I, too, support what has been said by Senators Upton, Mooney and Cassidy in relation to the closure of Century Radio. It would be the intention of this side to seek an immediate debate and we would be looking for a positive attitude from the Leader of the House. I certainly have the utmost sympathy for the various journalists and other people involved who have lost their jobs. It brings to mind the time certain legislation was rushed through this House. There needs to be a rethink in relation to that and I ask that this matter be considered favourably, otherwise we will be forced to resort possibly to putting down a motion under Standing Order 29 to seek an immediate debate.

Mr. Cullen

May I support the call for a full debate on Maastricht. I find it disappointing that we have not had an earlier opportunity in this House to discuss this very important meeting. I concur with many of the other speakers and say that the gravity of the matters to be discussed at this summit is such that they will affect not just the people now living in this country but future generations. It brings into focus the appeals from all sides of the House for a foreign affairs committee, and since the day I came to the Seanad, I have been looking for such a committee. If we had had such a committee six or eight months ago we could have discussed the very item we are now wishing to debate. There is an urgency about this matter and I ask the Leader of the House if we could have a debate next week on that summit. It is of the utmost importance. It also brings into sharp focus the need for the foreign affairs committee and the European affairs committee to be set up.

I have great personal regret about the closing of Century Radio and great sympathy for the staff who worked so hard there. However, I would disagree with some of my colleagues who have said the Minister should rush into this House or the other House with new legislation on the matter. That was the problem with the previous legislation. As somebody who publicly had enormous difficulty with the previous legislation and was opposed to many aspects of it, the proof, in a sense, is now in the eating. A full debate is now needed because of the withdrawal of the franchise from TV 3 and the closure of Century. It clearly shows us that there is a difference between radio and television and to try to deal with both of them under the same specific legislation may not be possible. I would say: caution, a full discussion, with no question of rushing legislation into this House or the other House.

Mr. Cassidy

On a point of order, as a matter of clarification what I did say was whenever the Bill was coming in——

(Interruptions.)

An Cathaoirleach

I am calling Senator Norris.

Mr. Norris

It would not be in my nature to exacerbate disputes between the major Government partner and the minor partner in Government but I have to say that despite the squawks of protest from the Progressive Democrats they supported this appalling piece of legislation when it was brought in. It is now very interesting to see that the Government side have today described it as a debacle. That is exactly what it is, and we knew what it was when it was introduced.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator, have you a question for the Leader of the House?

Mr. Norris

I would like to support what Senator Upton said with regard to the necessity for a White Paper and to ask the Leader if it is proposed to introduce such a White Paper. We were previously told that it might not be introduced but in view of the fact that the matter has been described as a debacle, in view of the fact that this station has closed and it was said today on the radio that there has been insufficient preparation——

An Cathaoirleach

Senators are continuing to make speeches on that matter.

Mr. Norris

May I draw the attention of the Leader of the House to the fact that the Irish Radio and Television Commission has developed an obsession with the grandiose and has not granted community radio licences. I am sure the Leader will be as concerned as I am about that.

May I ask a very specific question of the Leader of the House, namely, when is it proposed to resume the statements on Seanad reform? Is it intended to take this item next week and can I join with other Senators in expressing concern about this?

Votes of sympathy have already been moved by my colleague, Senator Brendan Ryan on our behalf, but a number of speakers brought up the question of the situation in the Middle East, which is serious; it is one in which we have clearly got an interest. It is astonishing to me that we are still in the situation where we have to summon the Israeli ambassador from London. Why do we not have an Israeli Embassy here so that we could make the protest directly and can we have a debate on the Middle East?

Mr. Staunton

I crave your indulgence to allow me say a word or two in connection with the death of Dalgan Lyons. As the only Mayo Senator I am probably one of the few Members of this House who knew Dalgan Lyons given the man's age.

He was a man of very simple origins from near Ballyhaunis who had a very limited formal education yet who was one of the most educated men I ever met. He was a distinguished elected member of Mayo County Council probably for more than 20 years. He was at one stage chairman of the county council and he had the best grasp of local authority regulations I have known in my years in public life. He had the distinction of having been elected from the old south Mayo constituency to Dáil Éireann and subsequently on two or three occasions to the Seanad. He was a gifted orator, he was articulate and he was a broad-minded politician who had not a mean bone in his body and who took a broad national moral view on issues. I am very pleased to be associated with the vote of sympathy passed here to his widow and family.

I support the views expressed about the Israeli backing of the South Lebanese paramilitaries and wish to associate myself with the resolution of sympathy to the widow and family of Corporal McCarthy. What is happening in Lebanon is institutional violence and I support completely the protest the Minister for Foreign Affairs made to the Israeli ambassador. We have had far too many of these atrocities which have resulted in loss of life of people from this country and other countries. We have to take a very tough line and as a Member of this House I support it.

I would like to put a question to the Leader of the House in relation to the demise of Century Radio which I regret very much because the lack of competition is very unhealthy. I do not think it is just a question of when certain broadcasting Bills will come to this House. We had a discussion here some weeks ago on broadcasting legislation and my view is that it is very flawed legislation. The gun was put to our head when the Dáil did not have an opportunity to sit but the question is very simple. It is time we had a debate on broadcasting issues in the most open-minded sense and I request the Leader fo the House to address himself to that issue.

I also support those who are calling for a debate on the Maastricht Summit which is to start I believe on December 9. Time is running out. The most recent poll in this country showed politicians bottom of the pops. Maybe it is the increasing level of irrelevance that is generating that attitude among the public but if we are to be relevant it is not an understatement to say that there should be a debate on that issue.

Mr. Costello

I, too, would like to be associated with the expressions of sympathy. I have one brief question to put to the Leader in relation to the Order of Business. The Liability for Defective Products Bill on the Order Paper is for Committee Stage today but the Leader has indicated he intends to take all Stages. I am opposed to that. I do not think it is proper that we take the Committee and Report Stages on the same day. We need time——

An Cathaoirleach

The House decides at the conclusion of a particular Stage when the next Stage will be taken and the duration of the discussion.

Mr. Costello

I want to bring to the attention of the Leader of the House that what is on the Order Paper is contrary to what he has stated.

An Cathaoirleach

It certainly will not alter the practice and procedure.

Mr. Costello

In the absence of the Whips having met and agreed on the matter I am opposed to us taking all Stages today. I ask the Leader to refer to it.

Mrs. Hederman

A number of frustrations have been aired today as they are every week on the Order of Business. We have heard that this House has been downgraded, we have heard of our frustrations and we all know we are marginalised. In relation to Motion 53, will the Leader say if it will be possible to take that motion and other motions at the conclusion of the debate on the reform of the Seanad. I believe that if that motion were passed it would get to the root of the problem in this House where 55 Members of the House are under a Whip, where 45 of 54 Members are waiting to get to the other House, were in the other House, or they tried to get to the other House. Will the Leader agree to take motions here at the end of the debate on the Seanad reform? We have the frustration of people asking for a debate on Maastricht. We have not got it. We have the problems of the foreign affairs committee——

An Cathaoirleach

A question, Senator.

Mrs. Hederman

Can we get to the root of the problem, namely the frustration of Members in regard to the workings of the House, dealing with that matter as a priority and get some order into this House so that we can have a meaningful role to play.

I wish to add my voice to those who have mentioned the problem for the local authorities not knowing what will be their rates support grant. If the local authorities were left to look after their affairs, if they were given power over their own finances, this problem would not arise. Can the Leader beg the new Minister to bring in the local government reforms that are necessary so that this will never arise again. The Dublin City Council intend on Monday night——

An Cathaoirleach

A question, Senator.

Mrs. Hederman

Will they have to bring in their statutory rate without knowing what the rates support grant will be?

Mr. J. Ryan

I would like to ask the Leader of the House does he believe, as I am unfortunately unable to believe, that we have a relevant role to play? For the third Wednesday in a row the question has been asked in this House, as it has at urban and council levels — unfortunately the managers cannot answer it — when and what amount of money will the local authorities be given when they have to strike a rate by next Sunday week? I make the point about our relevancy in the knowledge that the minor partner in Government are prepared to abolish the Seanad and that the major partner in Government has been in convulsions for the past couple of weeks.

An Cathaoirleach

A question, Senator.

Mr. J. Ryan

I am asking the Leader if he believes Seanad Éireann is relevant when we cannot get an answer in three weeks to a very important question.

Pól Ó Foighil

Ba mhaith liom tacaíocht a thabhairt don iarratas atá déanta le go mbeadh díospóireacht faoi Maastricht. B'fhéidir go mbeimis in ann réigiúnachas agus iarthar na hÉireann a phlé sa chomhthéacs sin. Tá sé iarrtha faoi dhó sa Teach seo go bpléifí an chaoi a bhfuil an t-iarthar ag titim as a chéile ar chuile bhealach. Chonacamar ar an dteilifís, fiú amháin go bhfuil an t-iarnród——

An Cathaoirleach

An bhfuil ceist agat?

Pól Ó Foighil

Seo an cheist, a Chathaoirligh, go bhfuil iarnród na hÉireann á bhriseadh suas agus nach bhfuil mórán daoine fanta san iarthar agus muid ag caint sa Teach seo faoi dhíospóireachtaí ar chuile shórt eile ionas nach bhfuilimid in ann deacrachtaí uafásacha an iarthair a phlé. Dá mbeidh díospóireacht ar Maastricht agus réigiúnachas b'fhéidir go mbeimis ábalta é a dhéanamh.

Ba mhaith liom a fhiafraí chomh maith faoi Raidio na hAoise. Is trua liom go bhfuil sé imithe den saol mar a thug sé go leor aitheantais don Ghaeilge. An bhfuil aon seans to n-iarrfadh an Ceannaire ar an Aire Tuarasóireachta, Iompair agus Cumarsáide Bille Craolacháin nua a chur os ár gcomhair chun é a phlé chomh maith le teilifís na Gaeltachta——

An Cathaoirleach

You are making a speech, Senator.

Pól Ó Foighil

——rud atá ceadaithe agus atá iarrtha.

Mr. Ross

I would like to thank Senator Hederman for her comments about those Members here who want to leap out of this House into the Dáil. It is a fair criticism. I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he sees any greater blame attached to those of us who wish to do that than to those who wish to leap out of this House into the Presidency which is, after all, a part of the Oireachtas.

An Cathaoirleach

It is not relevant. It is retrospection.

Mr. Ross

Secondly, I would like to support Senator Cassidy in his plea to the Leader of the House to bring the next Broadcasting Bill to this House first. It would personally be of great benefit to me because the last time it was debated in this House I was removed from the House by the Leas-Chathaoirleach and I hope we could debate it under a more benevolent regime.

An Cathaoirleach

Before the Leader of the House replies we will stand for a moment in silence.

Senators rose in their places.

Mr. Fallon

Senator Doyle and many others raised the question of the Maastricht Summit. In regard to various views expressed over the past number of weeks I found the greatest emphasis placed on three areas of importance to this country. One was the Common Agricultural Policy, the others were Maastricht and the banking system. The Common Agricultural Policy is on the agenda for tomorrow. I had hoped to debate the Maastricht Summit next week and the banking system the following week but I am of the opinion now that will have to be changed. However, I can assure the House that Maastricht will be debated in this House, even if it means coming back for a special sitting, in the next two weeks.

Senator Doyle also raised the question of the European affairs committee and a foreign affairs committee. I made inquiries over the past weeks and I understand they are still onstream, I cannot say exactly when they will be set up but I know the intention is there, to establish the committees. I have asked for representation from the Seanad on them.

Senator O'Toole asked, not for the first time as he said, when legislation will be initiated in this House. I repeat what I said previously; both myself and the Chief Whip will continue to look for legislation to be initiated in this House. As he knows, there has been a change of portfolios. Many Ministers have been changed and that has altered the position somewhat. Nonetheless our efforts will continue in that direction.

Senator Upton referred to Century Radio as did many other Senators. I very much regret the closure of Century and the loss of 50 jobs. I am very sorry for the staff in that station. I will certainly inquire from the Minister, when amending legislation to the Broadcasting Bill will be introduced and if it can be introduced in this House. I will further inquire from him if there is likely to be a — I have heard no mention of it — White Paper on broadcasting.

Senator Naughten referred to Maastricht and the rates support grant as did others, in particular, Senator John Ryan and Senator Hederman. I have spoken to the new Minister for the Environment regarding this matter and he tells me that within the next three or four days councils will be informed of the level of the rates support grant.

Senator Mooney referred to the Broadcasting Bill. I have given my reply in that case and also in reply to Senators Cassidy and Cosgrave. Senator Brendan Ryan asked about the banking system. As I explained, the debate could be next week. I hope both Maastricht and the banking system debates will take place within two weeks in this House.

Senator Cullen spoke about Maastricht and Century Radio. Senator Costello referred to taking all Stages of the Bill we are discussing today. My intention was to go as far as we could to 6 p.m. Obviously if the House agrees we should stop at Committee Stage I would have no objection but the intention would be to go ahead if we can.

Senator Norris asked about a White Paper on broadcasting and he asked when we will resume the debate on reform of the Seanad. I believe I am safe in saying to Senator Norris that resumption of that debate will take place next week. I have no plans for a debate on the Middle East at this time.

Senator Staunton referred in a very detailed way to Dalgan Lyons. There is no better person to do it than a Mayo man like himself. Senator Ó Foighil referred to Maastricht and broadcasting and Senator Ross also asked about broadcasting. I certainly do not intend to comment on Senator Ross's reply to Senator Hederman.

Order of Business agreed to.