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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 1 Apr 1992

Vol. 132 No. 1

National Energy Policy: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Seanad Éireann debate the national energy policy.
—(Senator Finneran.)

I welcome the Minister for Energy to the House this evening. We are debating the national energy policy but my interest is in a specific and particular part of that policy. It relates to the decision by Bord na Móna to close the briquette factory at Lullymore. I would like to dwell on this for a short while because it is something of special interest to me.

Lullymore is in the constituency I represent and it affects people in Kildare. There are 109 jobs now at risk because of the decision by the board to close the plant from 5 June next. Those people have a payroll of some £2.5 million and there are hauliers and other people associated with the company. You can see that the decision by the board has a very serious effect on the economy of a part of County Kildare where traditionally the economy has centred on the bogs and on the production from the bogs. Over recent years that has been running down regularly and there are very few other job opportunities in that part of the country. That is why it is of such concern, because it is difficult to see where these people will find jobs.

In relation to the board's activities, it is notable that between 1987 and 1991 the labour force of Bord na Móna, if my information is correct, fell from some 6,000 people to 3,200 people. One would have thought that would have had a fairly dramatic effect on the performance of the board, on its costs and so on but, as I understand it, the wage bill for the board only reduced from £74 million to £62 million in that period when the workforce was almost halved. That does not appear to have had a very dramatic effect on profitability. As we all know, the indebtedness of the board has increased and is now at £185 million. One must, therefore, question whether the reduction in the workforce has had the desired effect.

The Lullymore plant is one of the older plants. It is 35 years in service, but there has been a very good record in that plant. It has performed well over the years. I know that in the figures the board produced to recommend closure of the plant they said that costs were 20 per cent greater at Lullymore than they are at other peat briquette plants operated by the board. It is very easy to prove matters like that. Statistics are very flexible, as we all know, and the figures I have seen from Lullymore indicate it is profitable and that it consistently sells what it produces. Mill peat reserves in the catchment area are sufficient to keep the factory running for over 20 years, according to the figures provided by the local action group.

There are 109 people employed at the plant. Their gross earnings last year were about £2.5 million and obviously the loss of that spending power will have huge effects in an area which is already depressed. The contribution of the workforce to the Exchequer in 1991 was in excess of £1 million. It must be said that Lullymore is in an ideal situation to service the Dublin market. It is close to Dublin and that should have some bearing on costs. The board has produced figures to show that solid fuel sales and sales of briquettes are declining, but I would ask the board — and I have asked them — what efforts they have made and are making to market their product and to sell it in the face of competition from products like gas.

Peat briquettes are environmentally friendly. They can be burned in Dublin and I think they are an excellent fuel. The labour force in Lullymore, which has declined too, has been increasing its productivity all along. In the years 1983-84 it produced 60,000 tonnes of briquettes with a workforce of 220 people and this has increased to 70,000 tonnes from a force of 109 people. The commitment of the labour force and their ability to increase productivity has been well demonstrated by these figures.

My primary concern is about the people in west Kildare and about the impact the national energy policy is having on them, particularly the policy of Bord na Móna. In that respect, therefore, I would like to ask the Minister a number of questions. The first question is, what can the Minister say to the workers at Lullymore, in particular, what powers does he have to change the Bord na Móna decision or to alter it in any way? In the event that he is not in a position to change the decision of the board, what assurances can be given about the future of the employees of the Lullymore briquette factory, their prospects and how will they be affected? Will it be a question that there will be compulsory redundancies in Lullymore? What is to be the future of the employees? Finally, is the Minister prepared to meet a representative group from the workforce at Lullymore factory?

I, too, would like to welcome the Minister for Energy to the House. The debate before the House is a useful one and the fact that the Government side have put the motion down is to be commended. I believe we should be discussing and reviewing energy policy on an ongoing basis.

Before dealing with several matters, I wish to say I will be sharing some of my time with Senator Naughten.

Energy is very important to this country, particularly because of the high costs involved. There is also the whole question of pursuing an energy policy which will do the minimum damage to our environment. I appeal to the Minister to ensure that the policies being pursued by his Department are geared towards maximum protection of the environment.

There is no doubt that energy costs here are very high. We all remember the oil crisis in the seventies which had a disastrous effect on this country, in terms of jobs and so on. A lot of that was outside our control, but there are other matters within our control. I hope it will be part of our policy to develop alternative sources of energy and not to have all our eggs in the one basket, so to speak. In the case of oil, we have no control; we simply have to pay the going rate — but we should be seeking all the time to develop various alternatives, particularly those that do not adversely affect the environment.

What is our policy in relation to safety? It would be remiss of me if I did not mention the ongoing difficulties associated with Sellafield. Can the Minister assure us that he has been pursuing this matter at EC level, particularly in regard to inspections and reports? We read recently about reactors in Eastern Europe causing problems and perhaps being closed down. In relation to Sellafield, our ultimate aim at European level must be to have it closed down. In the interim, outside inspectors — and I hope the Irish can be represented at such inspections — must examine the situation and bring any problems to the fore. Too many matters have been swept under the carpet. It is important that adequate safety measures should go hand in hand with an energy policy and that there are adequate inspections to ensure that, at all times, the people are protected.

I agree with what the previous speaker said about the situation which has developed at Lullymore, County Kildare. I hope the Minister will give the workers some assurances in relation to their redeployment if jobs have to go. It appears that this plant was successful, even if some of its operations were outdated or outmoded, and one must ask should its updating have been looked at earlier. It has been suggested that the marketing approach was not conducive to selling more of the product. A clear, concise, direct and adventurous marketing policy has to be pursued. I hope when the Minister replies he will be able to give some assurance to those people who are victims of a managerial decision.

As I said, various matters have to be pursued in relation to an energy policy. First, it is important that we promote energy saving companies, as happened in the United States with business expansion scheme tax relief for initial capital. Second, we should encourage energy saving in public buildings by allowing public bodies retain half the savings achieved against their base line energy budget. Third, we should install computerised traffic controls, improve urban traffic management and promote a switch to public transport. A reliable public transport system, or car pooling and car sharing would lead to a great financial saving to those who used them.

We should also introduce compulsory fuel efficiency labelling for vehicles and equipment. We should revise planning legislation to ensure that all new housing developments meet specified new minimum energy conservation standards, which would cut energy loss by one-third compared to existing standards. We have already discussed the cost of motoring here. With tax being brought back towards pre-1977 levels and with very high costs of motor insurance and the prohibitively high cost of fuel, we must look at the total tax take in this area and work towards reducing the cost. Any reduction should be passed on immediately because increases are all too quickly passed on.

I welcome the debate and look forward to hearing from the Minister.

I thank Senator Cosgrave for sharing his time. As he stated, this debate is very timely because over the past 12 to 18 months we have seen the disappearance of the coal burning power station in Arigna with the loss of 220 jobs there. That source of energy, coal burning is no longer available unless we import coal from half way round the world.

The time has come when we must decide on a clear energy policy. We must decide how great a percentage of our energy we are going to extract from natural gas and whether we are going to pipe it throughout the country or use it for the manufacture of electricity. The generation of electricity from water seems to be on the downturn and one wonders why such an environmental friendly source of energy would not be encouraged to a far greater extent. We see also a changeover to windpower; I understand a major windfield is in the course of construction in Ballincorrig, County Mayo. What exactly is the future for that? What is the Department of Energy's policy on that? Is it intended to encourage more of those windfields, because I know of one other developer who is very interested in getting into that source of power and to sell the electricity to the ESB?

We also have a source of energy which is very close to your heart, Sir, and mine, that is, peat. I will not deal with petrol and diesel as Senator Cosgrave has dealt with them very effectively. He pointed out how those resources can be improved by the greater use of public transport and improved traffic flows. I intend to deal with the whole question of peat development, which is one of the vital issues for the future of the midlands. Senator Dardis referred to the closure of Lullymore, but we also are faced with the closure of Ballyforan as a source of energy production. Such closures have a devastating effect on rural areas.

I see the time approaching, perhaps in two, three or four years, when if the finances of Bord na Móna are not put into shape we will have stations like Rhode, Ferbane, Boora and others closing with devastating effect across the midlands. The finances of Bord na Móna must be tackled seriously. Unless they get share capital and equity the company will have no possibility of survival. They cannot carry a debt just short of £200 million and pay interest; I understand interest payments by Bord na Móna last year were in the region of £22 million. No company can tolerate that burden and the sooner the finances of Bord na Móna are got into shape so that they can go into the marketplace and produce new saleable commodities, the better.

In Roscommon and east Galway we are extremely concerned about Ballyforan and all the development that took place in the Derryfadda bogs. More than £20 million was ploughed into it by Bord na Móna in drainage, railroads and office accommodation, and all of that will be lying idle by the end of this year. That cannot be tolerated. I cannot see how taxpayers' money can be used, or abused, in that manner. I recognise that much of this is due to bad management in the past. Indeed, I pointed out at a meeting on Monday where in November 1982 the then Minister for Justice cut the sod in Ballyforan for the building of the briquette factory but four months later the then general manager of Bord na Móna went to the new Government and said they wanted to defer the project. That is the type of bad management I am talking about that existed at that time.

I believe that Ballyforan has a future. From what I have been told by the ESB, with the growth in the demand for electricity and the fact that some of the power stations in the midlands will have to be closed down due to the bogs being worked out, there is a future for Ballyforan. I am appealing to the Minister on behalf of the workers and the people of the Ballyforan area to at least give an extension of one year's manufacturing to Ballyforan so that the workforce of 32 can be retained. If that requires a transport subsidy, so be it. It is much cheaper to pay a transport subsidy to move the peat from Ballyforan to Shannonbridge or Lanesborough than it is to pay people unemployment assistance. Certainly, it is a far greater asset that this strategic resource would be utilised for the benefit of the people of the area and for the benefit of the families of the people who, by and large, donated that bog to Bord na Móna.

Do not let anybody try to tell me Bord na Móna bought that bog; they did not, they confiscated it. Some people were paid for it, others were not. They have a huge resource of 17,000 acres of bog there. What is going to be done with that? I think it is an issue that must be dealt with. Is that bog going to be left lying there for the next 25 or 30 years, or will it be utilised in the interest of the people who gave that bog to Bord na Móna on the clear understanding that there would be jobs there for their families and friends? That is not happening. I would like to know what is going to happen to that major resource.

The Oireachtas Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies very clearly made their view known with regard to the future of Bord na Móna. I think that committee's proposals should be seriously considered. Prior to Bord na Móna moving into the Ballyforan group of bogs, the Derryfadda group of bogs as they are known, we had a huge area of forestry there. We also had the Sugar Company manufacturing grassmeal and employing 40 people. All those jobs are gone and we are left with nothing in their place. That cannot be allowed to continue. I am appealing to the Minister to ensure that the processing of peat continues there in 1992 and that in the long term something is done to restructure the finances of Bord na Móna. I am not just talking about Ballyforan or about Lullymore; I am talking about the whole of the midlands when I talk about a restructuring of the finances of Bord na Móna. That is of vital importance and I appeal to the Minister to address that issue as soon as possible.

I dtosach báire, ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire go dtí an Teach chun an ábhar seo a phlé.

We are discussing energy policy. This is a very broad and important subject and I would like to address a few points. I accept that the main thrust of the debate to date has been on the whole question of energy policy in relation to Bord na Móna. From a national economic point of view, from an import substitution point of view and also from a jobs point of view, logic would say that it would be reasonable not to run down the operations of Bord na Móna. Before the internal accounts of any State company are taken into account we must from now on investigate if we are just saving a company some money and actually adding a bigger burden on the Exchequer. In simple terms, would the subsidy Bord na Móna would require to keep the likes of Lulleymore open and develop the bogs in Roscommon be less than the extra cost in social welfare, social housing, health etc. that will be incurred if these people are put on social welfare, plus the loss in revenue from PRSI and tax? In my view, unless that sum balances in favour of the redundancy, leaving out all the social consequences, it would actually be cheaper from the State's point of view as the only shareholder in Bord na Móna, to keep the jobs going. If we start doing the sums this way we will actually wind up increasing the State bills on every front.

We also have to look at energy policy in general. As a small island nation we are very dependent on our own sources of energy. I welcome proposals to link us into international grids. I raise the question why another drive is not made to try to really co-ordinate and interlink the energy policies of both parts of this island. My understanding is that in the North there is a surplus capacity for the generation of electricity. I know there have been problems with bombings, etc. and interconnectors, but I feel we should try, and try again, to get across to people, in the interest of the island. North and South, of unity of the people and of our economy and in every positive way that the idea of having a single energy policy, particularly in gas and electricity, makes economic sense. It is somewhat ironic heading into 1992 — it will really happen in 1993 — that we will not have the energy production in this country integrated on those two fronts by that time. That is a pity. If we did, the savings plus the cooperation would be to the mutual benefit of both parts of the island.

I would like to address next the question of the monopoly of the ESB. I know there have been calls for privatisation. I know there are people who would be anxious to split it up. To my way of thinking that is something that certainly should not be considered lightly. I am all in favour of allowing people private generation of electricity to feed into the national grid, but I could not agree with the idea of in some way privatising the grid itself. Doing such a thing would in my view, inevitably have this consequence. At present you have an equalisation of cost — in other words, we pay the same for a unit of electricity in the most remote parts of Ireland — but in a situation where you allow the profitable transmission part to be hived off you would find that those who live on the periphery, in the areas where the people interested in private enterprise transmission live, would be left with a much more expensive source of power.

Another issue in connection with the ESB that we have to address is the question of alternative energy, of putting more resources into wind power, wave power and various types of biomass, etc. It always seem to me that when there is a crisis — an oil crisis, an oil shortage, a rise in oil prices — suddenly we get enthusiastic about these things, but by the time we have made any progress the crisis is over, the ideas are put away again for another day and there the matter rests. However, sources of energy which can be regenerated have attractions over and above their renewability and their cost because they also tend to be the most environmentally friendly types of energy one could have. We must once again provide resources for the research and development of various types of alternative energy. Most people see alternative energy as a hobby but it must not be beyond the wit of man to harness the phenomenal amount of energy in both wind and wave power. I am sure that if the resources were provided, ways could be found to generate considerable amounts of energy from these sources.

Another issue that must be tackled is conservation. We cannot continue to use more and more energy in the western world. There are only finite supplies of fossil fuels. We must recognise that many environmental problems are caused by overuse of energy. Again, no more than the sources of alternate energy, this is an issue that tends to become popular at times of crisis, and then tends to fade into the background when energy supplies are plentiful.

Tá seanfhocal sa Ghaeilge a deireann: "ní hé lá na gaoithe lá na scolb", agus creidim go mba cheart go mbeadh polasaí an-deimhneach arís ar chumhacht a úsáid ar bhealaí i bhfad níos éifeachtaí ná mar atá sí á úsáid i láthair na huaire.

On the issue of conservation, we know, for example, that modern street lights give something like a quarter extra power and only use two-thirds of the amount of energy. We have domestic light bulbs that use one-fifth the amount of energy to provide the same amount of light in lumens. There are a number of methods for saving vast quantities of energy; for example, if even half the light bulbs in domestic dwellings were changed from the existing ones to energy efficient bulbs the savings in energy used would be considerable.

As one involved in industry, I know there are many ways to conserve energy. Many generating schemes waste the byproduct of heat they produce. Many industrial furnaces are similarly wasteful of heat. Heat is a usable form of energy. It is very important to examine how we could make better use of our energy resources and cut down on the total amount of energy we use.

I have dealt with conservation, Bord na Móna and the ESB. I would like to talk about one other subject, that is, the possibility of carbon taxes being introduced and their possible effect on the economy, particularly the economy of the west. The Minister, coming from Galway, is only too aware of the huge transport costs we in the west have to bear. The idea of carbon taxes has been mooted in Brussels to discourage people from burning fossil fuels. In principle, none of us can argue with that because we all know the environmental consequences of burning fossil fuels. However, if carbon taxes are introduced across Europe without taking account of the different, absolute, non-discretionary requirements of various industries and locations in relation to the use of fossil fuels, particularly for the burning of diesel and petrol, will be further disadvantaged. Those living on the periphery will be further disadvantaged. I know that would not be the intention of such a tax, but it would be the effect. If carbon taxes were to become a reality those on the periphery should have the least tax imposed on them as it is vital that they have access to markets. If open and free markets mean anything and if we want to level the playing pitch in Europe, we cannot continue to place unfair tax burdens on those people living on the periphery.

Ba mhaith liom arís tacú leis an rún seo agus sílím gur ábhar é go mb'fhiú a phlé sa Teach seo.

I welcome the Minister to the House. Energy is a very important issue. Some cynics might ask what policy? We did not know we had a policy to debate. However, it is extremely important that we have a comprehensive national energy policy. When I talk about policy I am talking about it in the broadest terms because when we discuss energy we must discuss all sources of energy — natural energy, produced energy and human resources; there is human energy also. We have made some strides in this area but I am not sure to what extent there has been a co-ordinated policy. There is some evidence now of co-ordinated activity from the Department of Energy. I suppose the Department of Finance are using their muscle in that direction also.

We have come a long way from the mid-seventies oil crisis when industry was almost totally dependent on oil. We are now less than 50 per cent dependent on oil and that is very welcome because oil is not an indigenous energy source — it is imported. I am delighted that we have very definitely turned our backs on the nuclear energy. I am sure nobody now would dream of being associated with Carnsore even though there were strong proposals and backing from previous Ministers for Energy who would not like to be associated with it now; far be it for me to name any Minister.

We have done very well to ban the burning of bituminous coal in Dublin city. That is a welcome and progressive move as far as the environment is concerned. Bad energy policy can be detrimental to the environment. On the other hand, we have been wrong to place so much emphasis on coal. We have moved from using oil to using coal. That is particularly true in relation to Money-point, County Clare, where we have created far greater capacity in terms of electricity production and generation than we need, using imported material, in other words, American coal.

We have perhaps failed most in responding to human needs where we interfered with indigenous energy generation. I refer to two areas: Lullymore in the midlands and Arigna on the borders of Sligo, Roscommon and Leitrim. What I find appalling is that both decisions were taken unilaterally by the authorities. Lullymore is the oldest briquette factory in existence and Arigna is the last remaining coal producing mine — it was operating in the last century. Communities were established in both areas and in the case of Lullymore, land was compulsorily purchased by Bord na Móna. Then, out of the blue, a decision was taken to abandon those communities. This is an intolerable way of dealing with matters. It is one thing to say that an operation is inefficient, it is another to abandon a community.

In the case of Arigna, 200 jobs were lost in 1990-91 when the mines closed down, and now a further 50 jobs have been lost with the closure of the power station. The loss of approximately 250 jobs in a small rural area has catastrophic effects on a community. The approach that should have been adopted was the one I argued for at the time — I am sure the Minister will remember it. We should have put in place a task force to examine the possibility of providing alternative employment for the Arigna community by developing the indigenous material that was in the ground, coal, and particularly crow coal that could have been used for the production of cement in Drogheda. In other words, by diversifying a new industry based on that natural resource would have been created and as a result, the community would not have been scattered to the four corners of the world. Soon there will be nothing but sheep looking over the hedges in the west. Now, United Meat Packers have closed.

Vacant hotels.

We will have afforestation and sheep runs in that area but no people. I am worried that the same type of approach is being taken in relation to Lullymore. There, too, a decision was taken unilaterally although there were a number of options. The factory was producing a surplus of 45 per cent. Employment could have been reduced on a temporary basis in the four briquette factories. This would have been more humane than hitting an entire community and putting 109 or 110 people out of work. Production could have been reduced in that way. New markets could have been found.

Bord na Móna have incredibly valuable products — milled peat, briquettes and horticultural products for gardens and farmland. It is difficult to see how there could be a lack of markets if there was a proper marketing policy. It is ironic that the people of Lullymore are being penalised for over-production. It is at our peril that we do this with an indigenous resource like peat and allow this community to join the dole queue. I understand that last year Lullymore paid the Exchequer more than £1 million in taxes. Now, the Exchequer will have to pay social welfare to those people who have joined the unemployed. There are not likely to be many jobs available for the people in the midlands, Roscommon, Leitrim and Sligo. When we are talking about an energy policy we must be sensitive to the human factor. There are many forms of energy. The last coal mine in Ireland has been closed and turf as a form of energy is being used to a much lesser degree than in the past. Gas is a new source of energy. However, there is a huge variety of energy sources — wind, water, oil, waste and biomass. When we talk about an energy policy we must see how we can utilise energy sources that are environmentally friendly. That must be the criterion for any energy policy.

The new clean energy source of Kinsale gas came into operation towards the end of the seventies. That was a very welcome development and I am glad we are exploring the possibility of a connecting link with Britain. I hope the pipeline to Northern Ireland will be constructed and that a connecting link with Northern Ireland, Britain, and the Continent will be established. This would be very important, especially if there is a danger of our own resources running out at some future date. I would like to see this energy form extended to medium sized towns in Ireland, although it is not available in certain areas of Dublin. That is something I would like to see as a matter of priority.

Electricity is a major form of energy and is one we have focused on more than any other in recent times. However, I have certain reservations at the way it is generated. We closed down the power station in Arigna. We rely less on peat to generate electricity and we have put almost all our eggs into the one basket of Moneypoint. There must be a big question mark over that because we are relying on a single generating station which at present has excess capacity. There is every intention of extending the amount of electricity generated there but we are relying on cheap imported coal from America to do so. At present it is cheap imported coal but we would do well to remember what in 1973 we relied on cheap imported oil and then it simply ceased to exist.

I am totally opposed to the privatisation of the generation of electricity. It is too important a resource. It is a national resource and is needed for the development of the country in industrial and domestic terms. I would hate to see it going down the same road as the beef industry which became privatised and we know what happened there.

We must concentrate on alternative sources of energy and on energy conservation. One-third of energy generated is lost in the process of generation. I ask the Minister to place particular emphasis on conserving energy resources.

I welcome the opportunity to address this House on the subject of Ireland's energy policy.

When I became Minister for Energy in 1989, it was clear to me that the single most important objective of energy policy must be to maximise the contribution which this sector can make to the nation's overall economic development. A modern-day economy must have adequate and secure supplies of energy available at the lowest possible cost if it is to prosper, if it is to generate employment for our workforce and if it is to provide the modern standard of life to which Irish people now rightly aspire.

The thrust of the Government's energy policy is very practical and simple. It is to ensure that consumers can obtain energy at the minimum possible cost consistent with security of supply and environmental considerations.

There are a number of complicating factors which have a significant impact on how that policy is implemented. First, Ireland's position as an island on the edge of Europe places us at an immediate disadvantage as regards access to the world energy market. Secondly, there is as yet no integration between our electricity and gas systems and the European networks. Thirdly, we are not rich in energy resources and are thus obliged to import some 70 per cent of our energy needs. Fourthly, we have a small and widely dispersed population and this adds to the cost of supplying energy.

It is for these reasons, therefore, that the security and diversity of energy supply must be given primary importance. In recent years two other key objectives have emerged.

First, as our economy has come to depend more and more on exports the relative price of energy in Ireland, compared to that of our trading partners, has gained in importance. This has highlighted the need for greater competition within the energy supply system so as to enable Irish business improve its competitiveness through lower energy prices.

Secondly, the growing concern to protect our environment has forced us to look closely at the relationship between supply and demand and, in particular, to focus on improving demand side management so as to achieve greater efficiencies in the use of fuels and greater conservation of primary energy.

The energy scene in Ireland cannot be viewed in academic isolation. It involves significant interactions which are affected by internal, and especially external factors as exemplified by the three major threats to security of oil supply since 1973.

The Irish energy scene has evolved considerably over the past decade. In 1980, some 70 per cent of our total primary energy requirement was met by oil. Only 22 per cent of our energy needs were met from our own resources. This position left us very vulnerable to supply disruptions and price rises associated with the volatile oil market.

As a result of consistent Government policy since then, the picture in 1990 was much better. While total energy consumption has increased by 20 per cent we now depend on oil to meet only 46 per cent of our needs. Indigenous energy has increased by 10 per cent and now accounts for 32 per cent of our requirements with all the benefits that implies in terms of our balance of payments and employment. The use of natural gas has increased from 6 per cent to 16 per cent over the decade while peat and hydro have remained static at 15 per cent and 1 per cent respectively. Imported coal and Irish natural gas have replaced a large part of our oil requirement.

The development of indigenous energy resources is an important element of national energy policy from the point of view of increasing security of supply and diversity of fuels in the market. The impact on the balance of payments position and on employment must not be overlooked either. In this context, the Government are determined that Bord na Móna will continue as a major contributor to Ireland's energy needs in the national interest.

The company's core business is the provision of milled peat to the ESB for the generation of electricity. Bord na Móna must continue to concentrate on reducing, to the lowest extent possible, the cost of producing milled peat for the ESB. Given current world energy prices, it is likely that having achieved these reductions the cost of peat for electricity generation will still be comparatively high.

This raises wider issues not solely relating to energy policy. Bord na Móna employ more than 2,000 people, concentrated mainly in the midlands region. In the absence of new employment opportunities being brought onstream, any substantial reduction or phasing out of peat fired electricity generation would have major social and economic consequences for the region. These issues will have to be tackled collectively by the Government to ensure that the policy objective of low price secure energy is achieved.

A number of Senators have made reference to the problems facing Bord na Móna and particularly the recent announcement by the board that the briquette factory at Lullymore is to close. As I have already indicated publicly, I very much regret the necessity for this decision but there does not appear to be any alternative. Total briquetting capacity in the four factories amounts to almost 560,000 tonnes whereas projected sales in the current year amount to about 400,000 tonnes. In effect, capacity exceeds current and foreseeable demand by a little more than the equivalent of a factory's production. Bord na Móna estimates that sales of briquettes will decline over the next decade so that overcapacity will continue to increase.

The reason Lullymore was chosen were detailed by Bord na Móna in information issued to public representatives which I will quote and put them on the record of Seanad Éireann. Factory production costs at Lullymore are close to 20 per cent greater than the average of the other factories. The numbers of employees and the costs associated with redundancy payments at Lullymore are less than 75 per cent of those involved in any of the other factories. The factory at Lullymore is considerably disadvantaged by comparison with the other factories in relation to indoor storage facilities. The impact on sales revenue arising from the closure of Lullymore is considerably less than would occur if any of the other factories were closed. If a factory is to be closed, the combination of factories which optimise the remaining production capacity in relation to demand is that which excludes the factory at Lullymore.

I am convinced Bord na Móna must continue to be a major contributor to the Irish economy for many years to come. This contribution must be based on the provisions of viable and sustainable employment within the company's operations. In the short term, this requires that the board must reduce its level of borrowing and concentrate its attention on reducing costs. I am acutely conscious of the importance of Bord na Móna to the economy of the midlands in particular and it is for precisely that reason that I want to ensure that Bord na Móna is positioned to operate as a viable company, providing secure and viable employment.

Senator Dardis asked me some specific questions in relation to the situation at Lullymore, particularly as to whether there would be compulsory redundancies. I am pleased to inform the House that the chairman of Bord na Móna has informed me that there will not be compulsory redundancies. There will be an offer of voluntary redundancy and an offer of redeployment. He also asked me if I would meet with workers representatives. If the workers representatives would first seek a meeting with the management of Bord na Móna, and possibly with the chairman and members of the board of Bord na Móna, and if after such a meeting they still wished to see me I would be pleased to meet with them. I must make it clear that I fully support the board's decision.

Senators Finneran and Naughten spoke at length on the need for development of bogs in the Derryfada area. The problems which face Bord na Móna generally and which gave rise to the closure of Lullymore, also apply to Derryfada. The bogs in Derryfada were developed with the intention of building a fifth briquette factory. That plan had to be abandoned when it became clear that there was no market for the output.

While the change in the fuel mix over the past decade has reduced our dependence on oil and has improved security of supply, it is accepted that the greatest threat to security still relates to oil supplies. In order to further reduce this risk I have given special attention to emergency measures, including improving our national stock position.

Oil supply security is also directly related to the quality of our oil infrastructure. If, in order to cut down on expenditure, we reduced the infrastructure simply to a product import and distribution operation, then our economy would become an oil "price taker", being forced to accept Rotterdam prices. Also, a slimmed-down infrastructure would leave the country vulnerable to supply disruptions as we are positioned at the outer edge of the oil supply chain.

The Whiddy oil terminal is a very valuable national asset. Its million tonnes of oil storage capacity would cost at least $120 million to build today. Its important strategic role was emphasised during the Gulf crisis, when I directed that 205,000 tonnes of crude oil be placed there to help keep the economy moving in the event of oil shortages, which were then widely expected.

The thrust of my policy, therefore, has been to retain as many elements of the oil infrastructure as possible in order to deliver secure supplies at the most economic cost. Consequently, the return of the Whitegate refinery to normal commercial operation and the reactivation of the Whiddy oil terminal is a high priority. An operating, profitable, oil terminal together with a profitable refinery, supplying competitively priced products, would confer both local and macro-economic benefits in addition to extra security at no net cost.

The ideal solution, of course, would be a discovery of an Irish oil source and that now leads me on to deal with matters relating to exploration policy. In order to intensify the search for oil and gas my Department are currently conducting a complete review of our licensing terms for offshore exploration. The purpose of this is to ensure that our terms are attractive in today's exploration climate. The other major initiative in the exploration sector is the introduction of petroleum tax legislation in this year's Finance Bill. The new licensing terms will be in place by June this year and, combined with the certainty which will then emerge on the taxation front, will provide the encouragement to international exploration companies to once again operate in Ireland.

I am pleased to say that Marathon Petroleum has agreed to undertake a programme of seven exploration wells in addition to a significant amount of seismic data acquisition. Also, in 1993 a licensing round will be held for "frontier" acreage off the west and north-west coasts and already there has been a significant level of interest in this area since the announcement of the round.

The development of our natural gas resources has meant a saving of £2 billion on our imports bill to date. 1991 also saw the first production from our second gas field at Ballycotton. Although modest in size, Ballycotton has proved that it is possible to commercially develop such deposits.

While I hope we will discover more gas offshore it is only prudent to act now in order to ensure that gas continues to be available in the future. To that end, Bord Gáis Éireann in close co-operation with my Department, have planned an undersea gas pipeline from Dublin to Scotland. This interconnector will enable us to import gas. The pipeline will cost some £287 million in current prices and we will receive a grant of some 35 per cent of the cost from the EC. Work on the installation will start later this year and will be completed in 1993.

In the event that a new large Irish gas field were to be discovered, the existence of this pipeline will enable us to export gas. In fact, the gas interconnector between here and the UK could give a stimulus to gas exploration activity as exploration companies would no longer be constrained by the limited size of the Irish market. They would be free to export gas to the UK if the home market were unable to absorb additional supplies.

In recent years the greenhouse effect has become a focus of attention in the EC and the UN. The House will be aware that the EC decided in 1990 to limit CO² emissions in the Community as a whole to that year's level by year 2000. The strategy proposed to meet this objective includes energy efficiency and conservation, switching to fuels with lower CO² emissions, and fiscal measures.

The policy being developed contains first the "no regret" form of action such as energy conservation and efficiency, then fuel switching from high emitters such as oil or coal to low such as natural gas. In order to stabilise CO² in a cost-effective way, however, it is likely that higher energy pricing through the use of fiscal instruments may be needed to complement national and Community energy efficiency programmes. This is where the notion of a "carbon tax" stems from.

I strongly believe, however, and my EC colleagues agreed with me at the Council that other major questions must be addressed before we embark on that course of action. One important question is whether the imposition of a tax would lead to a reduction in energy consumption and ultimately achieve the desired environmental effect. We also have to examine the macroeconomic effect a tax would have on the country as a whole and whether it would be compatible with a sound energy policy.

Events last week in the former Soviet Union will have reminded Senators of the dangers inherent in nuclear power generation. Government policy has consistently over the years stressed that safety issues and the risk of serious accidents with trans-boundary implications are still at the very basis of the nuclear question. As this debate is concerned with national energy policy, I do not propose to deal further with that issue on this occasion.

In Ireland, fuel substitution is a limited option. While renewables technology is still under-developed, it can make a major contribution to fuel saving and must be utilised as fully as possible.

In the case of hydro the potential for any major increase is limited as there are no suitable large-scale sites available. There is a range of small-scale sites, generally in remote locations dotted around the country, which offer potential for mini hydro schemes. Where it is shown to be viable in economic and planning terms, I will continue to support the development of this resource.

The other renewable sources most likely to be relevant in Ireland are wind and wave and we have an abundance of both these resources particularly along the western seaboard. Exploitation of both wind and wave power is highly capital intensive. In order to produce a reasonable return on investment in wind energy, assuming there are no grants or other financial supports available, a considerably higher price would need to be paid than that currently available from the ESB for bought in electricity. However, it also has to be recognised that unlike fossil fuels, there are no social or environmental costs associated with renewables and consequently there is a case to be made for paying a higher unit price for the electricity produced from these sources.

The 6.45 megawatt wind farm which will be constructed at Bellacorick in County Mayo later this year, with assistance from the EC Valorean Fund, will play a key role in the development of renewables in Ireland. Wind has the potential to supply a much greater quantity of energy than hydro-electric power which is why it is worth pursuing even if the technology is not as well developed. I hope the Bellacorick project will be a great success and a forerunner of greater things to come.

Measures to improve energy conservation and efficiency have an importasnt role to play in reducing fuel and environmental costs and in deferring the necessity for capital expenditure on new capacity for as long as possible.

Consumer information is probably at the core of trying to secure a new vision of the part of the final end-users to the benefits of energy efficiency. Unfortunately, energy conservation is not given as high a priority as it deserves by most householders and businesses. Insufficient or poor quality consumer information can lead to misguided decisions and distorted expenditure priorities. Therefore, consumer information, encouragement and persuasion have a key role to play in the promotion of greater energy efficiency.

However, the role of legislative and administrative actions must also be examined to supplement these efforts and to ensure, if necessary, that the community's interests as a whole are not neglected. At European Community level, Ireland is playing its part to ensure that the current momentum is maintained leading to the early adoption of further measures to promote energy efficiency.

The development of reliable, fully automatic, combined heat and power (CHP) generating systems, capable of unsupervised operation for long periods has opened up a new field of energy saving. However, the economic viability of CHP projects depends critically on the demand for heat and power at particular sites being reasonably well matched so that overall energy use can be optimised and energy losses kept to a minimum.

I believe our utilities also have a vital role to play in energy conservation. The ESB are engaged in a campaign to promote the efficient use of electricity. They are actively promoting the use of more efficient lighting, water heating and insulation in Irish homes. The ESB are also engaged in surveys and energy audits to promote greater efficiency in the industrial and commercial sectors.

I also believe that there is need for a co-ordinated approach by ESB and BGÉ in relation to certain aspects of energy policy. It is important that State companies, pursuing separate corporate objectives and competing with each other for market share, would not lose sight of broader national policy objectives.

I would like to move on now to consider some of the wider issues in the energy scene. The European Commission is pushing hard for liberalisation of gas and electricity markets in member states and for maximum use of trading opportunities between member states. I have already indicated to the EC that Ireland strongly supports the effort to achieve a Community market for energy and that the markets for electricity and gas are central to that objective.

A major step in that direction was made during Ireland's Presidency in 1990 towards the adoption of the transit directives for electricity and gas which provide the right for electricity and gas utilities to negotiate transit across neighbouring transmission grids and the transparency directive which provides for publication by the Commission of information on prices charged to industrial consumers.

The Commission holds the view that the liberalisation of electricity and gas markets will be of enormous benefit to consumers. They are convinced there are considerable in-built diseconomies in existing systems which are defended by vested interests in both industries. I must say there is a natural logic to this view and, independently of the EC, I have for some time now given careful consideration to changes which might be made in the structure of the Irish electricity system.

I recently brought proposals to Cabinet and I am pleased the Government have approved my proposal for a major review of the ESB with the intention of introducing competition into the electricity sector and increasing the transparency of costs.

I want to make it clear to Senators, who may have misinterpreted these proposals, that there are no proposals in my Department for the privatisation of the ESB. I envisage that the ESB will be split into two separate State companies, one for transmission and distribution and the other for generation; both companies would remain in public ownership. Any private company could choose to build a power station at any time and its power would be made available for sale to the distribution company on equal terms and in a competitive manner. The distribution company would charge for use of its network but would not profit from buying and selling electricity. It would also be responsible for construction and operation of international electricity links. The reason for this approach is simple; there is scope for competition in the generation business and no necessity for a monopoly. There will also be scope for competition between generators in Ireland and those in other EC member states if an electricity interconnector were to be established.

I want to refer to some of the points made by other Senators. The potential for buy-up fuels and energy crops has been raised during this debate by Senator McDonald. The major obstacle to the use of vegetable oil as an alternative to gas, oil and diesel is the cost of production. Having listened to Senator McDonald I wish to give the House the other side of that picture. If Irish farmers were to be rewarded for growing oil seed to the same extent as they are at present rewarded for growing cereal crops the cost would be twice as great. Furthermore, to meet Ireland's need for road diesel with sunflower or rape seed, it would be necessary to devote about half of Ireland's arable land to oil seed crops. I am sure the House will agree this would not be practical or economically viable. I will, however, continue to monitor progress in relation to that technology.

Senator Kiely asked when unit one at the Tarbert power station will be reopened. I am pleased to inform him that I understand the likely date for its reopening is April 1993. I was asked by Senator O'Keeffe about electricity interconnection between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. The ESB and the Northern Ireland Electricity Company have recently announced a joint plan for co-operative strengthening of electricity networks in Donegal and Fermanagh, in areas where networks are weak and consumers are particularly at risk from breakdown due to equipment failure and storm damage. Both companies are anxious to see the North-South interconnector restored, but unfortunately, as the House knows, the problem is related to terrorist activity rather than technical or economic matters.

I am grateful to the House and to the Senators for the points they have made. Any points I have not responded to will be carefully considered in the Department.

I thank the Minister for coming to address this House on this important issue. In the time available to me I will make some brief comments on the Minister's statement.

I am pleased to note that a decision has been made and that work is about to commence soon on an interconnector for gas and I hope eventually we will have an interconnector for electricity also. It is well known there is surplus capacity in Northern Ireland and we should not only connect to Northern Ireland but across to Britain, which, in turn, is connected to the mainland of Europe. That would give us security of supply and competition that we do not have to date.

I am pleased also to note the Minister is thinking of breaking up the Electricity Supply Board into two companies, one to control transmission and the other to control generation. However, that move will not generate competition because we will still have only one source of electricity leaving us vulnerable to the kind of action we saw last year when a few people with an imagined grievance were able to bring the country to a virtual standstill. The only way to avoid that and to ensure an electricity supply at a reasonable price is to have real competition which we can have if we buy electricity from outside and let the generation plants at home compete for the market. Alternatively, we could break up the existing generation capacity of the ESB, and enable a number of companies, plus private companies as the Minister said, to compete for the market. Until that happens, we are going to remain vulnerable to strike action and we are not going to get the kind of service or energy cost-effectiveness we might have.

I am pleased the Minister said that Whiddy is a strategically important oil terminal, but he only vaguely mentioned Whitegate Oil Refinery. My understanding is that Whitegate is in need of a significant capital injection to bring it up to modern-day standards and we must decide soon whether to do so or not. Presumably it is still strategically important for Ireland to have its own refinery even if it refines only a proportion of our total supply.

In the broader context, I think the Minister would agree the world as a whole must do more to protect renewable supplies of energy. Given present levels of population — and world population will double within the next 40 years — if all national economies were developed to European standards, let alone to that of the US and Japan, we would have a serious environmental problem with regard to energy utilisation and supply.

Our generation and generations before us have lived off the capital of fossil fuel that built up over millions of years and it has afforded us a standard of living we were not really entitled to. We have had energy at a cheap price, but it behoves our generation and the next generation to ensure that energy will be available for future generations and that requires investment and research. The best prospect for a long term solution is nuclear fission.

With regard to nuclear energy, the Minister rightly said that there are risks associated with it but without the energy currently generated by nuclear fission or nuclear energy plants we would have both an energy and an environmental crisis. Whatever the risks attached, we could not do without nuclear energy at the moment. I am not suggesting that we build nuclear power plants, although Japan and several other countries are doing so. Our economy does not warrant a nuclear plant of its own but I would not mind seeing Ireland being connected with mainland Europe for energy supply; France produces 70 per cent of its electricity from nuclear energy and has nuclear energy available at a fairly competitive price. We might buy energy from there to generate some real competition at home.

We could do much to conserve energy. Most buildings and homes in Ireland are inadequately insulated; most of our vehicles are inadequately serviced and are not working efficiently. I am sorry to note that in his budget speech, the Minister for Finance took the extraordinary step of making a significant cut in the price of petrol and no cut in the price of diesel when we all know that diesel is more efficient and more environmentally friendly. I was disappointed, too, in relation to road taxation, that while the Minister increased taxation he also imposed a ceiling of £800 which means that while I will have a 20 per cent increase in taxation on my modest vehicle, if I were driving a Rolls Royce I would save about £600. That does not make sense to me. We should be discouraging the use of large gas guzzlers, as they call them in the US.

On the international scene Ireland should be playing its part in discouraging the extraordinary wastage of energy occurring in some economies particularly the United States. The US, with about 5 per cent of the world's population, accounts for over 30 per cent of total oil consumption each year. We have a voice and we should make it heard to ensure that the developed economies take steps through research and investment to ensure that generations still unborn will have an adequate supply of energy and that our environment will not be damaged by the kind of energy exploitation in which we and our predecessors have indulged. We want to provide a better environment and a better standard of living for the generations that will succeed us.

I thank the House for giving this worthwhile debate three hours over the past two weeks. I thank the Minister for being here for the two days of the debate and also for giving a very comprehensive and detailed reply. He has covered all areas and aspects of Irish energy policy and I compliment him for clarifying that there is no question of privatising the ESB but that he proposes to devolve the ESB into two companies, one for distribution and one for generation of electricity, which is a welcome move.

I was also interested in what the Minister said about the possibility of CHP — a heat and power cogeneration system. This system is receiving much attention abroad and is in operation there to effect. It is being debated here and in the task force report from the Ballyforan area one of the six recommendations of that report was the introduction of CHP. Dr. Paul Monaghan of UCG who is recognised as a European energy expert and is au fait with the concept of CHP gave technical and professional advice to the task force that CHP could be used effectively in Bord na Móna, Ballyforan, or any other area provided we had the back-up of ancillary companies to take the peat being wasted at the moment. I understand that CHP is used very effectively in a peat station in Finland.

Bord na Móna and the peat component of the national energy policy is the main bone of contention at the moment and was one of the reasons I looked for this debate on energy policy. Bord na Móna as a supplier of national energy is dying a slow death; it has terminal illness at the moment requiring major surgery or a large dose of vitamins for its relief.

A bypass.

If surgery is needed Bord na Móna will not survive but we will be left with the debt, just as we were when B & I went out of business. A shot of vitamins at this stage might be more appropriate than surgery. I have looked at the figures for Bord na Móna and they are frightening. They have been told to get their act together, to make their company viable, profitable and commercially safe. The company decided that a number of measures, including the shedding of 3,000 workers, was the way to achieve these requirements. The measures taken by the company have reduced the wage bill from £74 million to £62 million but the debt has increased from £165 million to £189 million. The major measures taken by Bord na Móna have neither brought down the wages bill sufficiently nor brought the debt under control. The company is now making a profit but that profit is absorbed by bank interest charges on the £189 million debt. Therefore, Bord na Móna does not have resources to explore areas important for its development.

Lullymore is closing because Bord na Móna can sell the briquettes out of only 2.8 of their briquette factories. They cannot sell them because the do not have resources for marketing and promotion. They cannot get into further areas of development because they are fearful that any steps in that direction will upset their delicate balance. It is now opportune for the Government to make a decision regarding Bord na Móna in the midlands and I am glad the Minister in his speech indicated that there is a collective decision to be made on this. He said it raises wider issues, not solely relating to energy policy; Bord na Móna employs more than 2,000 people concentrated mainly in the midlands. Of course the implications do not relate to energy policy alone and that is why Bord na Móna must be dealt with in such a way as to allow it to maintain its social and economic activity in an area where a natural resource is processed and brought to production.

Lullymore and Ballyforan are examples of the measures that Bord na Móna has to take to keep within that thin red line of credit imposed on it. It has been instructed by the Minister and the Government to put is financial house in order. There are 32 highly skilled men in the Ballyforan area — top class lorry drivers, machinists, welders, mechanics and so on — from 24 to 38 years of age. They have an excellent processing setup — workshop, offices, machinery, raw material and an outlet. If the IDA set such an operation in place tomorrow we would see Ministers, TDs and councillors slapping them on the back and if this operation cost £9 million or £10 million, we would say it was very good value because technology was involved and it had a great future. For £150,000 this operation can be kept in place for a year.

Bord na Móna says production costs £3 a tonne extra in Ballyforan because the peat has to be transported by lorry to Shannonbridge. I would ask the Minister to consider the possibility of a transport subsidy. I do not mean this to continue in the long term, but the people of Ballyforan — State agencies and local communities — have produced a task force report with very valuable, well documented and well thought out recommendations. They need time and breathing space for this task force report to be evaluated and to see if any of recommendations can be effective. I believe at least one of them can be effective and one or two are being investigated. I am asking the Minister to consider a transport subsidy for the operation in the Ballyforan area. I am also asking him and his colleagues in Government, collectively, to look at Bord na Móna's social responsibility to the midlands.

The Culliton report speaks of IDA involvement in share capital in semi-State companies. This is an opportunity for the Government, through the IDA, to take share capital in Bord na Móna and to allow it to develop rather than contract. The Government should look at Bord na Móna in a new light, on the basis of what it can do for the future, rather than tell it to sink or swim on the basis of its economic performance. It is not appropriate for us to spend a large amount of advertising for foreign jobs through the IDA while, at the same time, we allow a very important part of this country, of our national energy policy and our national energy itself to go by the board taking with it opportunities for jobs and economic and social development in the midlands.

Bord na Móna's very serious debt problem was not entirely the result of its own decisions. Bord na Móna was forced into decisions in the seventies because of the oil crisis. It was prompted into decisions on a political basis a number of times and shunted down side roads away from its existing policies. All those shuntings, nods and pushes helped Bord na Móna to build up this debt. While the Minister, Deputy Molloy, has not been personally responsible for this situation in Bord na Móna, that does not absolve him from decisions which brought Bord na Móna to its present position. I ask the Minister and the Government to recognise that Bord na Móna has a part to play and that the time is opportune for the Government to take a stake in its operations on a share capital or other basis.

The Minister should request or instruct Bord na Móna to give consideration to Ballyforan. If he does, he must provide the necessary funding; £150,000 for 32 jobs for 12 months with an opportunity for major development in the future is not a high price to pay.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to sit again?

At 10.30 a.m. tomorrow.

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