Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 23 Jun 1992

Vol. 133 No. 7

Adjournment Matters. - Funding of Social Employment Schemes.

Mr. Costello

This Adjournment matter relates to the need for the Minister for Labour to ensure that adequate funding is provided for all social employment schemes. What prompted me to raise this matter was that in the inner city, around the corner from where I live, there is a large social employment scheme in operation — or at least there was — the largest in Ireland. Twenty eight people, employed on a part-time basis for 20 hours per week, are engaged in carrying out a wide range of activities, such as providing security for church and school grounds, producing a newspaper and improving an area which has been derelict and is in need of improvement. The work is being done by people who live in the flat complexes in the area which has massive endemic unemployment. If this scheme did not exist these people would be unlikely to have any form of employment or be motivated to get out of bed each morning. Now, at least they are doing something useful for 20 hours every week, and they enjoy it. The social employment scheme provided them with an outlet for their energies and gave then a certain degree of motivation.

It came as an absolute surprise that in respect of schemes that have been operating for the past seven or eight years on a continuous basis and were renewed as the 12 months period lapsed suddenly word came through that there was no further funding, that too many people were taken on schemes in the north side and that this scheme would have to terminate, with no indication of when or whether it might recommence. People who were on the scheme were told a day or two before the scheme was due to terminate that it had come to an end for that 12 months. However, that does not mean that all of the people have been on the scheme for a year. A number have been on for a few weeks only. It is an ongoing process, not everybody starts at the beginning of the 12 months period and goes right through. There is expected to be a certain degree of continuity. People are recruited at various times. As a result, somebody who had been there for six weeks, was suddenly told that what they regarded as social employment for a 12-month minimum period would now have employment for six weeks only. It was very unsatisfactory.

I understand the same thing has happened on a number of other schemes, in particular a Teamwork scheme. A number of senior citizens have been told they cannot go to the Central Remedial Clinic in Clontarf and Senator Haughey tried to raise this issue in the Seanad recently. The workers can no longer be employed to carry out the work that has to be done. It is a very serious matter.

We have a large number of schemes in operation; I understand approximately 11,000 to 12,000 people are involved around the country. These are bona fide schemes that are recognised by the trade union movement.

I am not sure, but are we changing Ministers at this stage?

Mrs. O'Rourke

I received a phone call from the Department of Labour saying to be here at 8.15 p.m.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

We finished the first Adjournment matter a little early. Senator Costello to continue.

Mr. Costello

I will very briefly repeat what I have said. The matter I am raising is the need for the Ministeer for Labour to ensure that adequate funding is provided for all social employment schemes.

A social employment scheme which is literally around the corner from me in Buckingham Street has been employing 28 people. I understand it is the largest such scheme in the country. They rereived word two days before the scheme was to be terminated but they expected it to be renewed because social employment schemes had been operating in that centre for the past seven years. The coordinators, workers and participants expected the scheme would continue as before, that at the end of the 12 months it would be renewed for a further 12 months. It came like a bolt out of the blue that the scheme had terminated and that there was no guarantee or indication of when it would recommence. I understand now it is unlikely to commence sometime in the future. That is what happened in that particular case and why I put the motion down.

I understand that FÁS overspent their funding in relation to these schemes and, as a result, could not continue with them until such time as funding was available again. I regarded that as an unsatisfactory situation in relation to the people who had been on the scheme. They were all people from the flats complex in the area, people who would find it almost impossible to get useful paid sustainable employment otherwise. I know them and have spoke to them and I know they were genuinely enjoying the work they were doing. It was work in the local community in relation to keeping security at the church and school, certain cleaning work and producing a publication in the community. They were very much involved in it and it gave them some activity in which to be engaged. In that area with a high level of crime and unemployment it was particularly beneficial.

I understand the situation was the same in many other areas throughout the north side of Dublin and probably on the south-side. With 11,000 or 12,000 people employed on the social employment schemes who had been there for six weeks and who expected to be there for 12 months. However, they were told that because the scheme would not be continued they would only be there for six weeks and that was the end of it. There should be grater stability to the scheme.

Part of our problem was that it was arranged originally without any element of vocational training. For ESF funding to come through, we need to have an element of training. I understand it was stopped about two years ago when the EC found out we were not conforming to the regulations and, consequently, the funding has to be paid by the Exchequer. Obviously if this SES scheme was paid jointly by Europe and the Exchequer it would be much cheaper than having somebody on unemployment assistance where the total amount has to be paid by the State. Considering that the pay per person is £72 per week which works out at an average of £67.62, after tax, per week, it is not that much greater than what people get on the dole for doing nothing.

All the arguments are in favour of expanding the scheme in that area. There is no opposition from the trade union movement or anywhere else. Jobs are not being interfered with or endangered. May I ask the Minister what is the situation at present, what security is there for the existing schemes, what funding is going to be available on a long term basis? Is it the intention to provide a module of training in the schemes to get a greater guarantee of European funding? What is FÁS's cinnutnebt to the community and voluntary sector which is sponsoring existing schemes?

Minister of State at the Department of Industry and Commerce (Mrs. O'Rourke)

I apologise to Senator Costello, to the Leas-Chathaoirleach and to the Seanad. I got a telephone call to be here at 8.18 p.m. I was here at 8.10 p.m. so the first Adjournment matter must have been concluded very quickly. However, I am aware that things move differently sometimes and events overtake one another. I am glad that Senator Costello repeated some of the points in his speech.

I noted in particular the scheme at Buckingham Street which had 28 people employed and the diversity of work of the people on it for a great number of years in the area. I can only imagine how much it has contributed to the general well-being and secure feeling of the area, and the feeling of comfort people have got from having matters attended to as they have been, so excellently, under the social employment scheme. I heard Senator Costello saying that the trade unions have given their acquiescene to it and their approval. That is to be welcomed because in so many areas that did not happen that way. Obviously the work has been very good.

An Exchequer allocation of almost £73 million was made available to FÁS in 1992 for the social employment scheme. The scheme has been in operation since 1984 and there is no point in my going back over the historical background. There were about 12,500 people on the FÁS scheme at the end of April this year and 54 per cent were people with adult or child dependants. The scheme represents a successful collaboration between local communities and the State in that local groups sponsoring projects come forward with proposals for projects in their communities, many of which involve improvements to local amenities. The Minister sends his regrets to the Seanad, he has gone to Brussels for a Social Affairs Council meeting to be held tomorrow.

The scheme is to a certain extent a victim of its own success as people have seen what can be done through social employment schemes. I know from my own county, and through schools, particularly primary schools, how much the schemes have donee to improve facilities available in certain areas.

Under the social employment scheme the intention was that projects would be of finite nature which would allow flexibility and provide opportunities for the long term unemployed. Obviously it would be unfair if projects were automatically renewed each year. At the same time, we cannot deny the expectations are high when schemes are proved to be satisfactory, when a lot of work has been done and the community are enthusiastic. The voluntary input by communities is one of the most remarkable features of the socil employment schemes which give people a real stake in their communities.

The Minister for Labour recently indicated in the Dáil that he was aware of the difficulties being experienced having some projects renewed. A mid-year review of FÁS expenditure indicated that there will be some savings on employment scheme expenditure due to a slight change in the profile of participants, which means that more people can participate than were targeted at the start of the year. The Minister told FÁS to utilise those savings to fund additional social employment schemes and Teamwork activity between now and the end of the year. This should overcome some of the difficulties being experienced by sponsors where SES projects have expired or are about to expire. The Minister goes on to stress the flexibility FÁS must have to manage the scheme. The scheme is not eligible for European Social Fund aid since the end of 1991 but in 1992 the Government made up the £13 million which had been made available via the European Social Fund in 1991.

The better news is that there are various other programmes aimed at the long term unemployed under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress. The Community Employment Development Programme will replace the social employment scheme in other areas. Under this programme a training element will be provided on projects involving 15 or more participants, and participants will retain their secondary social welfare benefits, such as butter vouchers, fuel allowance, etc.

EC aid in the form of a global grant is being sought by the Taoiseach's office for the various measures, including the community employment development announced by the Taoiseach. If EC aid becomes available for the new programme, the Minister for Labour is hopeful that this will strengthen the case with the Commission to have European Social Fund aid restored for social employment schemes generally. The Minister and all of us agree that if we can do that, we will have achieved a very worthwhile objective. There was a training element in the schemes at the outset but, for one reason or another, it was not continued. Apparently, it did not get the approval of Europe.

FÁS has been conducting an urgent review of social employment scheme projects whose renewal had been deferred and the position will be clarified with sponsors as quickly as possible. In relation to his own scheme, I think Senator Costello has heard some soundings which are hopeful and optimistic in nature. I share Senator Costell's concern, as people of all parties do. These schemes started tentatively; I have always felt very strongly about them.

I remember when the Senator's party was in Government and Deputy Quinn was Minister for Labour, and he proposed the schemes in the Dáil. I was one of the first to speak in favour of the scheme and I was reprimanded by some of my own party for being in favour. The then Opposition spokesman, Deputy Bertie Ahern, was also very strongly in favour of it and I have seen the good it has done.

I thank Senator Costello for bringing the matter to the Seanad this evening and I assure him that Deputy Cowen, the Minister for Labour, coming from a county which has used the SES extensively, is aware of the input it has made to local communities and the pride it has given local groups. His wish is to see that this scheme continues. He will continue his strong efforts in Europe, with the Commission and the Council of Ministers, to see that the EC aid is renewed as quickly as possible. I am glad to have had the opportunity to come here this evening and to give the Minister's apologies, but most of all to indicate his aspirations and hopes in that regard.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 24 June 1992.