Today's business is item No. 1 between now and 2.30 p.m. and it is proposed that all stages be completed. It is proposed to take item No. 2 between 2.30 p.m. and 8 p.m. and that all Stages be completed. It is also proposed to take Second Stage of item No. 3, between 8 p.m. and 10 p.m. and to have a sos between 5.30 p.m. and 6.30 p.m. Without wishing to pre-empt what the leaders of the party groups will say I understand they have agreed to those proposals and I thank them for that.
Order of Business.
Clearly the spirit of Bastille Day lasted only one day as we face two guillotines today. On the Order of Business, may I offer those taking part in the talks in Stormont today every good wish from all sides of this House. I hope their efforts will be successful. Will the Leader of the House clarify the status of item No. 2, the Health (Family Planning) (Amendment) Bill, 1992? Is it a Government Bill? Yesterday in the House the leader of the Progressive Democrats here said this was typical Fianna Fáil legislation.
(Interruptions.)
This is not relevant on the Order of Business.
Does that mean we can expect the Progressive Democrats to vote with this side of the House on the various amendments today?
We have made every attempt to meet the wishes of the Leader of the House today to get this legislation through and ensure there is a debate on certain aspects of the different Bills. We hope in return that there will be flexibility in debates on issues raised in the next session.
After the Leader's recovery and abstinence from guillotines yesterday it appears he has suffered a relapse but, in the spirit of good feeling and preparation for our holidays that we all seem to be part of I will not question it. I join with Senator Manning in wishing the historic talks at Stormont well. On the Health (Family Planning) (Amendment) Bill, I am sure the Progressive Democrats will continue to speak against it but will vote for it.
I would like to join in the good wishes of Senators Manning and Upton to the Minister and those participating in the talks in Northern Ireland. The last meeting of such standing involved the former Taoiseach, Liam Cosgrave, more than 18 years ago. The talks are historic, whether people like to agree or not. I would ask the Leader of the House between now and our return in September to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Andrews, who has been so open and gracious to this House, to tell us about the talks and the point they have reached, if that is in order. As regards who is in Government and what has been said——
That is not relevant on the Order of Business.
It is relevant. The Progressive Democrats are part of Government and they have no trouble——
The Senator likes them.
If Senator Cullen made a small slip in his contribution yesterday evening——
A temporary little slip.
——there is no trouble, it is corrected today.
In view of the fact that our primary function is to examine and revise Bills, does the Leader think this Chamber is functioning properly and efficiently when we pass six Bills in eight weeks and we will pass 12 Bills in three weeks? I think that is to trivialise this House. Is it morally justifiable——
It is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
——for us to sit here drawing fat cheques, with the cost of the bureaucracy to keep this charade on the road.
It is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
I suggest the Minister for Finance, Deputy Ahern, may look to this House when making his cuts.
That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
He may find there are cuts to be made here.
A few short years ago a man arrived in this country who got a tumultuous welcome from the majority of the people——
Have you a question for the Leader of the House?
Yes, I have a question for the Leader of the Seanad. This man lies ill today and he has had messages of goodwill from leaders all over the world. I put it to the Leader of the House — I asked him yesterday — that surely our new found liberal agenda does not prevent us sending a message of goodwill to his Holiness the Pope.
A Senator
Why did the Senator not send a message himself?
I did.
It is very gratifying that everybody from all sides of the House is so well able to represent the views of the Progressive Democrats.
You should not be here at all.
Senator Dardis to continue without interruption.
We are here at least as long as the Senator. I wish to join with the other Members of the House in expressing the hope that there will be a fruitful outcome to today's historic events in Northern Ireland. I am sure all of us wish the talks well. Even if they progress slowly, at least they will have progressed, and obviously our hope is that peace will ensue. In regard to some matters which have been raised on the Order of Business, I am happy to belong to a party which allows freedom of expression in matters of this nature.
What about the voting?
It is definitely the silly season. I am calling Senator Costello.
First, I join with Senator Lydon in wishing the Pope well and, secondly, I echo the remarks made in relation to the talks commencing at Stormont. The suggestion made by Senator Honan is an excellent one that at the beginning of the next session we would have the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Andrews, in the House to give us a briefing on the situation. I wish to express my disappointment that we are imposing the guillotine again today, particularly in relation to the Health (Family Planning) (Amendment) Bill, 1992. In a situation where we have to put so much legislation through the House, when the Dáil has risen, and we cannot introduce amendments, I ask the Leader to address that unsatisfactory situation for the future.
I am calling Senator Naughten.
I would like to ask the Leader of the House if it would be possible, given that there is so much reference to the beef tribunal in the media, that this matter be discussed in the House. I know you have——
I gave my ruling yesterday.
Nevertheless, it is a matter of major concern and developments are taking place which we cannot discuss.
I wonder whether the Leader of the House would consider giving additional time to the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 1992. This is very important legislation which affects the lives of many people throughout the country. We have three and a half hours to discuss this Bill on which 53 amendments have been tabled. I respectfully suggest to the Leader of the House that that is not sufficient time and I would ask that additional time be made available.
I always wish people well and I would be quite happy to agree with Senator Lydon that the Head of the Vatican State be wished well in his illness. In regard to the elimination of Private Members' Time and the elimination of issues of topical debate, perhaps when the Leader was telling us about his enthusiasm for Bastille Day he was thinking of guillotines in other places. Does he have any idea as to when we will resume business: will it be October, November or even September?
I do not think there is much point in wishing the participants in the Northern talks well — which is a very easy thing to do — if all of us do not make the effort to formulate an opinion and to prepare the public for what may be a very painful compromise on our traditional aspirations. On a lighter note in relation to the Health (Family Planning) (Amendment) Bill, may I suggest that if the Progressive Democrats are having difficulty they might have a chat with Senator Honan about the facts of life.
The Senator did not have his chat with me in time.
The Leader is getting off very lightly. Senators are in a jovial mood this morning. I did not see any break in the guillotine yesterday afternoon when a Bill was being debated on which several Senators, myself included were denied the opportunity to speak. Having pressed my point I was eventually given two minutes in which time I could say very little of what I wanted to say about the Bill. In effect, the guillotine was used yesterday. Also, we had the ridiculous situation of an amendment being tabled to that Bill and the Minister replying to that amendment in detail when in fact we, the Senators of this House, had not received that amendment. I would like an explanation for that. Surely if a Senator puts down an amendment and the Minister, who is the guest of the House, is in possession of the amendment——
My information is that the amendment was circulated to the Members of the House.
I have yet to receive it and I checked all my post even this morning.
That is the information I have and I am sure it is correct.
The Minister replied to it in this House yesterday without the Members present having a copy of it. The amendment was not even put to the House. I would like an explanation and I would inform my colleague that the guillotine was used in a very severe manner yesterday on very important legislation in which, apparently, Senators were far more interested than Members of the other House. It should not be assumed when legislation is passed rapidly by the other House rapidly that it will have a similar passage through this House. We should be given every opportunity to discuss any legislation that comes here irrespective of how the other House treats it.
Cuidím leis an méid atá ráite ag an Seanadóir McMahon. Nuair a chuir mé leasú isteach inné bhí mé ag súil, fad is a bhí an tAire sa Teach, go dtabharfaí, ar a laghad, deis éigin dúinn rud beag simplí mar é a phlé, mar ní raibh mórán ann. Ach níor tugadh seans dá laghad dúinn é a phlé; níor cuireadh timpeall é, ní raibh a fhios ag daoine go raibh sé ann fiú amháin.
The Senator is talking about yesterday's business which was agreed on the Order of Business. That is the point I made and, unfortunately, the amendment was not reached on time.
I refer first to the comments of Senator Lydon. I certainly support what he described as a liberal agenda. I would also say that the present Pope is not somebody towards whom I feel any political affinity or any great personal warmth but I would have no difficulty whatever in sending him an expression of goodwill and good wishes to someone facing a serious operation. If Senator Lydon wishes to do that he can certainly add my name to it.
Thank you.
With regard to the liberal agenda, motion 42 deals with the judgment of the European Court. I should like to put a general question to the Leader of the House in the light of this continuing scandal, and of the fact that during the court case the judges criticised the Oireachtas for not acting and that newspapers and radio today contain reports of various courts criticising the Oireachtas in regard to legislation: is he satisfied with the legislative progress these Houses have made in view of the fact that we are so heavily criticised?
Obviously we have had a very extensive programme of legislation and I thank the House for its co-operation in getting it through. The Health (Family Planning) (Amendment) Bill is part of the Programme for Government and will be dealt with accordingly today. With Senators Manning, Upton, O'Toole and Honan I extend my good wishes to those involved in the talks in Northern Ireland today.
Order of Business agreed to.