Today's Order of Business will be Items Nos. 1 and 2 between now and 4 p.m. with a sos between 1.30 p.m. and 2 p.m. If the format is agreed, we could debate Item No. 1 and make statements on Item No. 2, but take both together.
Order of Business.
I ask the Leader to give a fairly substantial reply to a request from me as to what is happening with the Milk (Regulation of Supply) Bill? There is great unease about the delay in bringing this Bill back into the House, both among the agricultural community and the unions involved. Perhaps we could have on the record today from the Leader details as to why the delay and what the state of play is in regard to the Bill.
You are probably aware, Sir, that Mr. Eamon Rayel, former clerk of the Dáil died yesterday. Over the years his wisdom and kindly direction were always available to all of us. On behalf of my party, I would like to offer my deepest sympathy to his family. He was a man of wisdom and of few words, but he gave a great sense of direction to us all in this House.
On that point, we will have a vote of sympathy at the end of the Order of Business.
I find myself in an awkward situation. I do not want to break the agreement without consensus, but he was a Dingle man and a friend of mine. I did not know of his death. I would like to be associated with the remarks of Senator Doyle. I am not sure about the process of doing that. My understanding is that this matter had to be raised in the first place through the Cathaoirleach before business.
I raised yesterday with the Leader of the House the need for a debate on the Green Paper on Education. I would like the Leader to confirm that that debate will take place next Thursday.
This side of the House, and indeed people on the other side of the House as well, have regularly raised the need for a foreign affairs advisory committee or joint committee or whatever. I would propose, as we are not making any progress on this, that until such time as such a committee is established this House could go into Committee on regular occasions, perhaps once a month, in order to debate foreign policy matters of interest to Members of the House. I would not put that forward as a proposal to replace the need for a joint committee on foreign affairs, but I would certainly raise it as a proposal for us in the interim so that all Members could participate. On a number of occasions here the question of Somalia and the response to it has been raised. It seems to me that the Committee on Procedure and Privileges should consider an invitation to the President, who is a former Member of this House, to come back to this House and to——
It is not appropriate to ask the Committee on Procedure and Privileges——
I would ask you to raise it with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I would also reiterate my request to the Leader of the House yesterday for an outline of coming legislation which, I understand, is being put together. We are aware of what is happening in the immediate future with the three Bills coming through on the referenda, but we would like to know what is the position after that. There are a number of Bills of concern to us on these benches and we would like to hear the views on them at the moment.
May I join in the expressions of sympathy to the family of Mr. Eamonn Rayel? I did not know the man personally but I was very well aware of his reputation and of the very worthwhile contribution he made to the functioning of the other House of the Oireachtas.
In relation to the foreign affairs committee, may I again join with Senator O'Toole in expressing my concern that it has not materialised? I believe it has been given the "Yes, Minister" treatment. "Certainly, Minister, you are absolutely right. We are going ahead with it" but, nothing happens. Has the Leader of the House any idea of the reason for the delay in introducing the promised legislation in relation to crime and vandalism, which the Minister for Justice promised during his Late Late Show appearance? There is a very serious problem in Dublin. The parks committee meetings of south Dublin County Council at this stage have turned into a law and order committee where we are trying to come up with ways to curb anti social behaviour. Finally, may I join with Senator Doyle in asking what is the present position in relation to the Milk (Regulation of Supply) Bill? Has the dispute with the union been resolved, or is it close to a resolution?
Yesterday I mentioned RTE in my contribution on the debate on Europe and the Acting Chairman told me that I could not do that. I am looking for guidance because nobody in RTE has any problem mentioning people in this and the other House. I look for your guidance. RTE is a semi-State body. In my opinion we should be permitted to mention it here and I will continue to do so until I am prevented or corrected by the Cathaoirleach.
Two weeks ago I asked the Leader of the House to provide time for a debate on the management of the River Foyle and the Foyle Fishery Commission. Sadly in the last two weeks there have been very serious problems in the River Foyle and the Government had to be involved. I am asking the Leader to provide time very soon for a debate on the management of the River Foyle and the Foyle Fishery Commission. This is important because the State's involvement has to be the concern of the nation.
I would like clarification from the Leader of the House with regard to items Nos. 1 and 2. I take it that we are not having two debates. We are having one system where you can make your argument in the form of a debate and that would also be taken as a statement. I see the Cathoirleach nodding, so there is one debate.
I support what Senator O'Toole said about the foreign affairs committee. It would be helpful if we had such a committee. The House will remember that we did establish a committee of both Houses on an informal basis, but because of the undertakings of the Minister, we did not reinstate this at the beginning of this term.
I would like also to support what Senator O'Toole said about inviting the President to address this House. I made that suggestion on the first day back. It was not then ruled out of order but I know the Cathaoirleach was in a particularly forgiving frame of mind on that occasion. I also noted that there was no response from the rest of the House. I was surprised by that. It seems to be a most appropriate suggestion and I hope it will be taken up.
The Leader did reply.
No, he did not. May I suggest that Senator Honan, who, I understand, is quite literate, consult the record and she will find I am correct. She is wrong as usual, so nothing will surprise anybody about that.
That is not fair, Senator Norris. I think you should withdraw that comment.
If it is not fair I will certainly withdraw it; anything that is unfair I will withdraw, but I know Senator Honan, with whom I enjoy sparring, does not bear malice.
I would like to ask two further questions of the Leader of the House and on this occasion I would welcome an answer. I asked them yesterday but no reference whatever was made to them. The first was about the response to the European human rights judgment. I will understand if the Leader is not in a position to give this information today, but perhaps he could give it next week. I would like it on the record of this House that the Government propose taking no action whatever in defiance of their undertakings. I wish this to be a matter of record of this House and I would be grateful if the Leader would reply.
The other item I raised was to ask the Leader of the House if he will give us a policy statement from the Government. It is 30 years since any item of legislative change has made its way on to the Statute Book from any source other than Government in this House. That is a corruption of the democratic process. I am asking the Leader to place firmly on the record whether it is the response of the Government if it is a consciously formulated policy that they will act in a dog in the manger manner and only allow legislation to come before the House if it is proposed from the Government side. There are a number of matters on the Order Paper today that could usefully be taken but the Government will not take them.
I would like to be associated with the vote of sympathy to the family of Eamonn Rayel whose death was brought to my knowledge this morning. I knew him for 14 years in Dáil Éireann. Some years ago, as Leas-Cheann Comhairle I had considerable dealings with him and I depended on him for his advice and guidance in exchanges in that House.
I support Senator O'Toole's comments about the foreign affairs committee. Listening to the radio this morning I heard a description of the situation which is developing in Sarajevo as they face into the winter. The famine facing these people will be worse than what happened here 100 years ago. I criticise the lack of initiative and the insensitivity of the United Nations in not taking steps to ensure that something worthwhile is done.
Our representative at the United Nations should be pressing hard for something to be done. That concerns me greatly. We pride ourselves on being a member of the United Nations. Yet, in a country 1,000 or 1,500 miles away thousands are dying while we stand back. I wonder if what is being said is true — if there was oil in that country many more countries would be interested.
May I too be associated also with remarks with regard to Mr. Eamonn Rayel, and offer sympathy to his family? He was in the Dáil when I served there. He was a most helpful and courteous man at all times.
I want to ask the Leader of the House when the legislation for the forthcoming referenda will be introduced into this House? Have those arrangements been finalised? When will the legislation be discussed here?
Last week there was a seizure of £3 million worth of drugs in Cork Harbour. That begs the question, how many of these hauls are undetected? I am raising the issue here because there is major concern among the parents of this country about the proliferation of drugs. I want to jog the memory of the Leader of the House——
Senator O'Keeffe, I suggest this subject is very suitable for a motion in your own name.
I beg your indulgence because before the summer recess I was promised a debate or statements on this issue by the Leader of the House. I want to remind him of this fact and ask when he proposes to make time available.
Did the Leader of the House say there would be 20 minutes for each group leader and 15 minutes for the other speakers? We do not want the Minister rambling on for an hour or an or an hour and a half at the expense of Senators' time. If there is a time agreement maybe the Leader could see to it that there is co-operation on all sides.
I, too, would like to be associated with a vote of sympathy to the family of the late Eamonn Rayel. Even though I was in this House, I worked closely with him at a certain period. My sincere sympathy goes to all his family.
As regards my colleague on the other side of the House, I am convinced that Senator Norris must take bird seed for breakfast instead of cereal.
Lucky I am to get it with the mess you have made of the economy.
All I hope is that he does not start whistling.
I join with the other Members of the House in extending to the Rayel family our deepest sympathy. I knew him when I was a Member of the other House. He was an excellent gentleman and a very dedicated employee of the House.
May I ask the Leader of the House if he will allow a discussion on the enterprise partnership boards which have been set up by the Government? It is of vital importance that that matter should be debated in this House. I and many other Members of this House have certain reservations about the membership of those boards. I would like to have the matter discussed.
May I be associated with the vote of sympathy, which I understand will be dealt with at the end of the Order of Business?
With regard to today's debate, Minister Cowen will open the debate and speak for 15 to 20 minutes. At 3.30 p.m. the Minister for Finance, Deputy Ahern, will come in to conclude the discussion. I have not put a time limit on speakers.
On the Milk (Regulation of Supply) Bill, I understand there are technical reasons why that Bill has not been brought to the House. I will get a written reply for the Senators in question.
With regard to the Green Paper, the Whips and Leaders met yesterday. I understand, subject to the Minister's agreement, we will have an all day debate next Thursday with the same formula as will be used in the Dáil tomorrow. The Senators will have a chance to make a contribution and the Minister will take some questions. I am hoping that we will extend the sitting time to 5 p.m. That will allow the Minister to take questions in the Dáil, and then come back to us. I hope to confirm that this morning.
Several Senators mentioned the Foreign Affairs Committee. As soon as I get a chance to speak directly with Minister Andrews I will have a more definite reply for the House. As I mentioned last week, in response to various references to the visit to Somalia, Minister Andrews has made contact with my office to say that he would be extremely keen to come into the House and report on the visit. As soon as time allows that will happen.
Senator McGowan raised the question of having a debate on the joint management of the River Foyle. We will discuss that matter with the Whips.
Senator Norris mentioned motion No. 50 on the Supplementary Order Paper. The Taoiseach answered that question in the Dáil on Wednesday last. It is in the Official Report of the Dáil.
Let the record show that he said it would not be done. He would not comply with the European Court.
The three Bills on the referenda will be taken on the 28th and 29th of this month. Senator O'Keeffe mentioned the drugs debate. That will be agreed in time with the Whips. Senator Naughten raised the matter of the enterprise boards. I would be very keen that we would discuss that matter also.
What about the policy on legislation?
With regard to a query to me from Senator McGowan, may I just say that it has never been in order to name a person in a debate. That is a long established precedent.
May I also, as Cathaoirleach, pay my respects to the late Eamonn Rayel and offer the sympathy of the House to his family? We will now say a little prayer.
Members rose in their places.
Order of Business agreed to.