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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Jul 1993

Vol. 137 No. 6

Order of Business.

I know I speak on behalf of all the House, Members and staff, in welcoming you back to your Chair. I hope you are well on the way to recovery and am pleased to see you back.

Today's Order of Business is Item 1 until 4 p.m., Item 2 from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m., Item 26 from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. and Item 3 from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m.

May I join with Senator Wright is saying how pleased we are to see you back and to wish you every success for a complete recovery?

On the Order of Business, I would like the Leader of the House to make time available today for a full discussion on the Aer Lingus crisis. It is one of the most serious matters which has arisen in Irish public life for a long time and I think it would be wrong if this House, which has so many Members from areas which will be seriously affected by what is happening in Aer Lingus, did not have a debate on the matter. I ask the Leader to make time available today and we will co-operate to get the rest of the business through.

May I join with the other Members in welcoming you back? It is good to see you restored to our midst; the place was not the same without you.

May I also join in asking the Leader to make time available to discuss Aer Lingus and aviation policy? The issue is extremely important and I think this House should be afforded the opportunity of discussing it in detail. It appears that increasingly decisions are taken by executive action without reference to the Houses of the Oireachtas, which is one of the reasons I think it is important that we discuss this issue.

Would the Leader of the House give time for the Minister of Justice to comment on last night's television programme, "First Tuesday", on the Dublin bombings which took place 19 years ago in view of the disquiet felt by the relatives of the victims and the country in general?

I also support the calls for a debate on Aer Lingus and the opportunity to express our concern at the change in status of Shannon — the only effective instrument of regional policy and the only instrument to correct the regional economic imbalance. In view of the fact that 2,300 jobs are likely to be lost in tourism and airport business in Shannon——

The Senator is making a speech.

——would the Leader allow time to debate the matter? We are extremely concerned that it is almost certain that the pre-inspection facility will be removed from Shannon. I think it is important that we would have the opportunity to express our concerns to both Government parties about what they have done to the mid-west and west.

The Senator is making a speech; he has made his point.

I join in the good wishes to you, a Chathaoirligh; I am glad to see you here.

I support the call on the Leader of the House to provide time today for a discussion on Aer Lingus. I do not mean to show any disrespect for the other matters the Leader has proposed for discussion but I believe the situation that has arisen because of the Government's decision on Aer Lingus has a higher priority. It is important that the Upper House be given an opportunity today to debate this matter which is being discussed throughout the country, and has already been debated in the other House. I will reserve my other comments until the opportunity is provided for a debate.

I will be surprised if the Leader does not respond positively to our request, bearing in mind the implications of yesterday's decision for people in many parts of the country; not just in my own area but also in the Leader's. There is a compelling argument for a debate on the state of Aer Lingus taking priority over other items on the Order of Business.

A Chathaoirligh, it is good to see you back and I am glad you did not let the medical profession get you down.

I will talk to you about that later.

May I ask the Leader of the House if time has been made available to discuss the Opsahl report as we all hoped? I do not see Senator Wilson here today but I know he was most anxious that we should discuss it.

A Chathaoirligh, I join with the Leader of the House and other Senators in giving you a very warm welcome back to your usual good form.

I agree wholeheartedly with the importance and urgency of having a debate on the Aer Lingus plan because of its major implications for the workforce and the regions.

I also welcome you back, a Chathaoirligh. Would the Leader of the House — and I have asked this several times before — consider having a debate on the enlargement of the EC? It is a matter which is both imminent and important and the Taoiseach has spoken on it recently. If the Leader is speaking to the Minister for Justice, would he raise the question of young Mr. Matthews who is being excluded from England because he happened to evade British injustice?

During the past week two major employers in Dublin have announced that they are seeking 2,000 redundancies. Dublin has the highest level of unemployment and the loss of another 2,000 jobs will cause an economic crisis. I ask the Leader of the House to provide time to debate the level of unemployment in Dublin.

I also welcome you back. As a matter of urgency, I ask that time be provided to discuss the "First Tuesday" programme broadcast last night. That programme raises three specific questions which underline the urgency of discussing it. First, were the British authorities or their agents directly involved in the worst terrorist atrocity that has been committed in 21 years? Second, were the RUC involved in destroying or interfering with a Garda inquiry into these bombings? Third, did elements within any Irish Government know of these features?

I, like many other people, have had my suspicions for 19 years about the atrocities that were perpetrated in this city and County Monaghan on 17 May 1974 in which 32 people died. There has always been a suspicion that it was state terrorism and not simply unionist or paramilitary terrorism. There should be a review of all the facts and I suggest there should be a select committee of both Houses of the Oireachtas to review this case to see what further action is taken. I have always believed we are dealing with a judicial cesspool in the North of Ireland, and it is time all the facts were brought before both Houses of the Oireachtas.

Sir, I would like to be associated with the good wishes already expressed. I support Senator Roche's call arising from last night's programme. I would also like the opportunity to discuss another programme —"Tuesday File"— on Network 2 last night. That programme dealt with national lottery funds for sport. It is important to discuss this because the programme contained startling revelations.

I also ask for a debate on Aer Lingus. It was interesting to hear the Minister for Employment and Enterprise telling the nation that the election promises were made in good faith.

And fulfilled.

You are making a speech. Address your question to the Leader, please.

I am sure the Leader will note what I am going to say.

On the Order of Business.

Yes, we are looking for time on the Order of Business. Before the general election all the Members of the other House had an opportunity to find out exactly what was happening in Aer Lingus at a presentation in the Shel-bourne Hotel. The Minister was denying that last night and misinforming the people with untruths.

I too join with the other Members in giving you a very warm welcome back. I agree with the Senators who called for a debate on Aer Lingus as soon as possible. We had a constructive debate in this House when we first heard how serious were the problems facing the company. Many points were made at that time, including the need to provide equity, and substantial equity will now be provided by the State. The time has come when we need to debate the matter again and I support the calls for such a debate.

A Chathaoirligh, I too welcome you back and wish to be associated with the good wishes to you. Will the Leader ask the relevant Minister about commercial interest rates? We have not seen any decline in commercial interest rates in line with Central Bank reductions and reductions in mortgage interest rates.

I support Senator Burke on that point. People are selling very low mortgage rates and the Government is giving the general impression that it is important to get the country moving. The banks, however, are not reducing interest rates despite the Central Bank's recommendation. When will they be reduced? I ask the Leader to have the Minister responsible reply.

A Chathaoirligh, I join with my fellow Senators in welcoming you back. I am glad to see the vacuum that was in the House in your absence being filled by your return.

On the Order of Business, I support Senator Roche and Senator Neville in calling for a discussion on the loyalist bombings in Dublin. I also support Senator Lydon's call for the Minister for Justice to come to this House to discuss the case of Mr. John Matthews. This is the second recent case where somebody has apparently been stitched up by the authorities in England. Following the recent publication by the Royal Commission on Reform of the Legal System in England, and given that we are proposing to reform the law on extradition here, I believe it is vitally important that this area be looked at. I call on the Leader to make time available for such a discussion.

I am obviously as interested in the state of Aer Lingus as my fellow Senators and would welcome a debate to air Members' views. Will the leaders of the Opposition parties meet me after the Order of Business to arrange time for a debate tomorrow? I spoke to the Minister today and he would like to have this opportunity to come into the House to give his views on the situation. There may be another occasion when we can debate the wider issue of unemployment in Dublin, the Guinness layoffs and so on. I would welcome such a debate.

The debate on the Opsahl report will take place next Tuesday. I would like to put on the record that, although Senator Wilson will unfortunately not be in the House, because of the level of interest in the report I am sure it will be on the agenda for further debate in the autumn.

I will pass on to the Minister and the Taoiseach the views of the House about last night's television programme on the Dublin bombings. I understand the Taoiseach has made it clear if an inquiry is necessary, he would facilitate it.

As regards Senator Lydon's request for a discussion on the enlargement of the EC, that may have to wait for another day. The last issue raised was commercial interest rates. The Minister for Finance will be in the House all day tomorrow and during the debate on the Waiver of Certain Tax, Interest and Penalties Bill, Senators may have a chance to make the points outlined today.

Order of Business agreed to.

Before calling Item 1, I thank Senators for their messages of goodwill both today and while I was in hospital. I also thank those who helped me on the night I took ill. It was a frightening night for me and for others. Deputy McDaid was most helpful. I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach, Senator Naughten, for his work while I was in hospital. The result, I am told, is that I will have an extra 20 heartbeats per minute, so I will be livelier and keener.

We had better be careful.

Whether that is good or bad for Senators I cannot say.

We will all behave.

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