I welcome the Bill and compliment the Minister on his initiative at this early stage in his Ministry in getting down to regularising the legislation in this complex area. He indicated he is considering a number of other measures which are also overdue. I welcome the initiative he is taking in, for instance, putting autonomous boards in place for the National Museum and the National Library. This will be a worthwhile and progressive development which is necessary in view of the added responsibility the National Museum will have in the implementation of this legislation.
I am less sure about the Minister's plans for the putting in place of a statutory heritage council. There would need to be some examination of the structure of departmental responsibility in this regard before the Minister would go ahead with legislation. For instance, how would a statutory heritage council work with the Commissioners of Public Works? There would need to be an examination of the whole subject at the political and the administrative levels to see how best a framework could be put in place which would do what we would all like to see done. To a large degree, heritage was left in a poor state over the years. Other priorities took precedence and other areas of national endeavour sought funding which, to a large extent, deprived heritage of the funding which was so necessary to deal with its problems.
There were a few developments in the 1980s and the early 1990s. I would mention the contribution of the former Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, in this area. When he discovered that some of our national buildings, even in this city, were in a derelict and run-down state he provided urgent funding. This enabled reconstruction and remedial works to be undertaken on this building, the National Gallery, the National Museum and other buildings. When I had responsibility for the Office of Public Works in the 1989-90 period the rain was running down the inside of the walls in some of our most important national buildings in this city due to lack of investment.
The second important element was the provision of funding through the National Lottery. This has been worthwhile and I would like to record our appreciation of the former Taoiseach's involvement in the various areas and the funding provided through the National Lottery which has, to a large extent, remedied deficiencies in the buildings housing the National Gallery and the National Museum, and has allowed some magnificent work to be done such as the development of the Royal Hospital Kilmainham and the gallery there. To a large extent, we are making up now for the lack of action over many years and for the state of neglect of many of our national monuments and buildings. It is important that adequate funding be provided to enable the work which needs to be done to be carried through.
This legislation clearly makes provision to sort out what has been a subject of litigation and controversy, the question of the legality of ownership of national treasures and national archaeological objects. The legislation puts a grave responsibility on the Director of the National Museum. I would like to pay tribute to the present director, Dr. Pat Wallace. He has made a magnificent contribution to the development of the National Museum and I am aware of his extraordinary energy and ability. I have no doubt he will have the competence and professionalism to deal with the responsibilities being put on his shoulders in this legislation.
The Minister has said that he plans to have a new autonomous board for the National Museum and I do not see where the board is brought into the legislation. Perhaps the Minister might look at this. It is a complex area which has been the subject of various court proceedings and litigation and, in an effort to find a way in which we can minimise litigation, I would suggest that in the legislation the Minister is putting before us he might give some consideration to putting in place an appeal mechanism either to the board of the museum or to the Minister. While I have great confidence in the competence and professionalism of the director of the National Museum, to avoid complication in this area it would be desirable that an appeals mechanism be put in place. Thus if there is a dispute, for example, between the director and a person who has a special find, there would be a means of resolving it to avoid, as far as possible, recourse to the courts and litigation which could bring the legislation into question again.
The director requires adequate funding to enable him to carry out his duties and to employ, as is indicated in the legislation, qualified and competent people to assist him in his work. If it is necessary to secure safe places for the storage and maintenance of important items that may be found, the director should have the necessary financial resources to do so. Perhaps provision, if it is not already in the legislation, could be made for a fund which the director could use.
I emphasise the importance of regionalisation in deciding locations for the storage and display of important items. While we value and would wish to see the National Museum in a dominant position in this area, it is important that the regions be given attention. Magnificent work has been done on the Hunt Museum and the Hunt Collection in Limerick which is very encouraging and should be supported. I would like to see that work extended to other regions.
The work that has already been done in the conservation area is a credit to the Office of Public Works. Long before the State was founded the commissioners took steps to ensure that important items of our heritage were protected and preserved. No doubt they, too, were deprived of financial resources for much of their work. I again emphasise the necessity to provide the necessary resources to enable conservation and management work to be undertaken. There are huge demands in the conservation area which will require substantial investment. Conservation is a costly exercise. Look at this Chamber and the magnificent work carried out on it by the Office of Public Works. However, it is very expensive work. If we want to do these things we must pay for them. Funding is vitally important to ensure that important sites in Ireland are protected and conserved.
It is wise that the Minister, through the Office of Public Works, is establishing a record of national monuments. Perhaps he would outline the present situation in relation to the records of sites that was compiled by the Office of Public Works for many counties; I am not sure if that work was completed. It was started by An Foras Forbartha and continued by the Office of Public Works. I launched the records of one or two counties and they contained detailed documentation, including maps, plans and sketches, which were available to planning authorities and archaeological societies. People who were interested in conserving and developing those areas had first hand information from these records. The record for Kerry was well documented and aerial photography identified about 1,000 sites which had previously been unidentified. I am not certain if that record will be affected by the new record the Minister proposes under this legislation or whether he is giving legislative effect to that record in this Bill.
I support the comments of other Senators on theft of important stone carvings and other items from our important sites. It is both a tragedy and a scandal that an individual can go into a site like the Friary in Ennis and, with an electric saw, remove some of the most important stone carvings in that national monument. How that can be done without coming to somebody's attention is beyond me. The fines in this area are totally inadequate. In addition, how this highly professional and well organised campaign can be tackled baffles me. The Minister should bring it to the attention of the Garda authorities and others.
I am aware that in one location a child was lowered through iron bars which had been installed to protect important stones. Ropes were put around the stones and, over a period of time, they were removed. This type of blackguardism must stop. The resources of the Minister, the Garda Síochána and the Office of Public Works must be utilised. We must also seek the support of local organisations, such as archaeological societies, in an effort to stamp out this wanton vandalism which is creating havoc in some of our important sites. There was another serious incident in Liscannor a few weeks ago.
We also know that attempts were made to smuggle items out of the country in cars travelling through ferry ports. Recently the competence of the customs officers prevented some very valuable items from Clonmacnoise being brought to Germany. Very heavy penalties must be imposed for such crimes and I am not sure the penalties in the legislation will be adequate.
There has been much talk recently about amnesties to enable us to recover finances that have been invested abroad. Perhaps an amnesty might be considered in regard to this problem. Very valuable items which, in many cases, are of no use to the individuals who have them might be turned over to the State if there was an amnesty provision over a period was introduced. We need strong legislation to deal with people who take valuable historical items out of the country but we need an incentive to get some items back. In the UK in particular there are many items of historical and archaeological significance which would be returned if there was an incentive to do so.
In section 10 there is a provision to pay rewards or inducements to people who hand over historical items. It may be possible to extend that by offering inducements to people overseas who have important items, some of which were taken from the country before the foundation of the State. Some of the most important historical items from Scattery Island — which was a monastic settlement in the Shannon estuary — are in the British Museum. I realise there is co-operation between that museum and the National Museum and I would like that co-operation to be encouraged and developed. Perhaps the Minister might bear that co-operation between the professionals in the British Museum and ours in mind and, when he is considering the establishment of a new board for the museum, this co-operation might be extended in the European context. Perhaps it is already possible to do this under section 10. It would be desirable if some inducement was provided to encourage people outside this jurisdiction to return important items in their possession.
The preservation and development of historical sites is important. One of the challenges the Minister will face is how, on the one hand, we can preserve and maintain important sites and monuments and, on the other develop them. This has been done in the buildings next door and in the Royal Hospital Kilmainham where there is a modern museum in a historical and architecturally important building.
The challenge which faces the developers and the Minister, in particular, is to blend the modern with the old. One can see the hand of the architectural professionals from the Office of Public Works in the work done in the Custom House, Leinster House and other buildings in this city, where the new has been successfully blended with the old. In particular, I want to mention the refurbishment of Dublin Castle and the modern facilities which have been put into a historical building. This is an indication of the success of the architectural professionals in the Department. The same is true of the Custom House and the National Gallery which was officially opened a few years ago.
In relation to national monuments and to Scattery Island, I mentioned the necessity for change in some of the old legislation which inhibits what can be done on many important sites. For instance, under the Church Act, 1869, the Commissioners of Public Works are prohibited from financing projects where services are held in certain buildings. The restoration of St. Mary's Cathedral in Limerick was an important job undertaken by the Bishop of Limerick and the community. Excellent preservation work has been undertaken on one of the most historic buildings in Ireland. However, the Commissioners of Public Works were prohibited from financing that project because services were taking place in St. Mary's Cathedral. I urge the Minister to use this legislation to repeal the Church Act, 1869 because the Commissioners are prohibited from becoming involved in the restoration of buildings where religious services are held. Religious services on these important sites should be encouraged. People involved in this area would welcome a decision by the Minister to repeal the entire legislation or to make some provision for a licensing arrangement.
I compliment the great voluntary effort being made at present. I want to mention the work being done by Kilrush community development in relation to the acquisition of Scattery Island. This island was established as a historical monument before the formation of this Government. I urge the Minister to support the development work being planned for Scattery Island by providing Structural Funds to ensure that the pier development, which is essential for the overall development of the island, is undertaken.
Areas such as Kilfenora have a long record of involvement at community level and with State agencies in the preservation of some of the most important sites in Ireland, including the controversial Burren area. Significant work has been done by the Burren Community Council and by the comhar cumann which operates the Burren Kilfenora centre. I urge the Minister to support the work they are doing by grant aiding the committee so that they can update their premises and undertake the work which needs to be done. Grant aid could be given by the Heritage Council which has done magnificent work. This funding would allow important work to be done at Kilfenora to ensure that the project, which has been there for many years, will survive and develop in the future.
I want to mention the Discovery Programme reports and the work carried out by Professor George Eogan and a team in the unique development started by the former Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, and supported by the present Taoiseach, Deputy Reynolds. The first report was issued recently by Professor George Eogan, chairman of the Discovery Programme panel. Professor Eogan said about the project:
This venture is without parallel in European archaeology: the editor of one international archaeological periodical has recently described it as a visionary and remarkable initiative coming at a time when integrated research is wasting away elsewhere in Europe. It is also a significant affirmation of the importance we attach to our heritage, for without the research to explain how this legacy was formed, our museums and heritage centres would be little more than superficial displays of relics of times gone by.
These sentences sum up what needs to be done in this area. The Minister faces an exciting challenge and many professionals are working with him. Professor George Eogan and others in the Discovery Programme worked in a place which is dear to the Minister's heart, Mooghaun Fort. His brother, John, is involved in the local Clare archaeological society. The Discovery Programme reports indicate the work already done in this area.
The Minister must get the necessary backing from these Houses to undertake future work. This is an exciting time and the Minister will have a difficult job to strike a balance between the preservation of our heritage and its future development. People must be able to say in 50 years' time that a contribution was made to conservation and development in the 1980s and 1990s, that the situation was not all negative. We had negative action in Mullaghmore and we should not allow anything similar to happen again. The Minister has a big challenge facing him and he needs our support. I assure him of my support and I compliment him on the effort he has made because it augurs well for the future.
