The Minister earlier replied to a question on employers' records. The Minister's speech placed strong emphasis on making sure the employer in particular will take responsibility for all records, making sure they are up to date and that the person is not claiming elsewhere. Whether we like it or not, there is a general impression that there is no incentive to employ workers. More and more companies want to let people go and say they want fewer people working for them, which is regrettable. I would like to see every company asked to take on one or two additional workers but when I say that to people in business — in the service or manufacturing areas, fishing or leisure — they give me a strange look. I would like someone to try to contradict me, because if it is not true I must be living in a different world.
No one will employ anyone if they do not have to, yet the Minister put the emphasis on making employers take full responsibility for their employees. That is fine in theory but many employers, while good from a work or service point of view, are not accountants pushing buttons on a computer to make someone else do the work. We should learn a lesson from other countries in particular America, whose economy turns on the creation of small businesses.
In Cork, we turned around the situation after the closure of Ford's and Senator Magner is well aware of that. There are now more people working at the old Ford site than when the Ford Motor Company was there but they are all small businesses. However, if I was to explain to those people the full responsibility of employing a person, they would pull down the shutters. The smaller the place, the more people are working because each business needs transport.
What can the Department do to make it easier for the employer? That question is not being asked and no incentive is being offered so I will persevere in my efforts here until I get satisfaction. The Government is not providing any incentive to employers to take on more workers but says it wants to give incentives to employees through social employment schemes. The impression is given that these are new schemes but they have been there since 1985 when they were called community work, etc. A great many people want to go to work in our country and cannot. The Government and Opposition are now admitting that only a certain number of jobs can be created but more can and should be done. We should be providing new initiatives and motivating people — employers or employees.
The Minister's speech gave the impression that more emphasis must be put on the employer to take responsibility while it is not being made easier for him to do so. It can be made easier. The Minister introduced PRSI cards and says they are relevant to new employees. If people in social welfare offices can press buttons to see if a person is entitled to benefits, why should every employee not have a job card? Is the PRSI card an identity card and are we taking people's rights away by introducing it? The Minister disagrees yet in her speech she said that:
The social services card is designed to facilitate improvements in the quality of service provided to our clients including the elimination of unnecessary queuing. Only the Department itself, health boards, FÁS and the differential rent section of the Dublin Corporation have access to the database and only for limited inquiries purposes.
We should ensure that people know they have access to the database. Speaking on radio, the Minister said nobody was entitled to examine the data, yet that is not true because four bodies can do so. I have no objection to that although I reckon a proper job card would not place as much responsibility on employers. Without the job card an employer cannot employ anyone, even for an hour. Are we examining that situation sufficiently? Everything on the card should be relevant to a person's tax, PRSI and health contributions. This will free from worry the person with the initiative to create work. Such a person should not be criticised. He will not provide jobs because he would be faced with frightening responsiblities. Does anybody here understand what is involved in employing a person? We must provide incentives to employees and employers and bring everybody into the tax and welfare systems. I do not deny the amnesty is bringing many people into the tax system. When people become part of the system they will look for benefits which they have never sought before. This worries me because I do not know how we can continue to pay £11 million a day in social welfare. We are encouraging less and less initiative.
Who is at fault when a builder or company which goes into liquidation has not paid PRSI on behalf of its employees for 20 or 30 years? We — not the employers — are at fault because we did not make provision to cover employees for the benefits to which they were entitled. If employees had job cards we could see if their PRSI contributions have been paid for the last 12 months and if not, we could seek them from the defaulting employers. Banks can look at accounts of customers all over the world. At the touch of a button they can debit people's accounts and acquire information. There should be details of every employee on a database and by pressing a button we should be able to find out where any employee is on a given day. This would remove the responsibility from the employer and the employee would know he is covered. If a person is working on a site while his job card is in the local employment exchange, he should be responsible and should pay.
Contractors and sub-contractors, with employees working in the black economy, are being given contracts by local authorities all over the country. It is not for us to criticise such authorities when they are told by the Government to accept the lowest tender. Some of these contractors are from London and elsewhere. This is what the European Single Market is all about. How can we stop such contractors? Will we have inspectors on site every day?
Every employee should have a job card. If a person is on a database and his job card is not in the local employment exchange, it should be possible to check every three months if his tax and PRSI contributions are being paid. There should be only one payment for both tax and PRSI and there should be no PRSI income limits. Why should a person earning more than others else pay less PRSI and be entitled to the same benefits? I know a job card system cannot be implemented immediately but the Minister should consider its introduction.
