Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 16 Dec 1993

Vol. 138 No. 15

Greyhound Industry (Amendment) Bill, 1993: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The Bill now before the Seanad proposes to amend and repeal sections of the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958. The main provisions of the Bill are the reduction of the term of office of the board's ordinary members from five to three years, terminating on a rotational basis and for the removal of the specific vocational requirement for board membership; the muzzling of greyhounds at coursing meetings and trials and for the veterinary supervision of hares before, during and after such meetings and the removal of the prohibition on greyhound racing on Sundays. This Bill represents the first amendment to be proposed in respect of the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958.

When the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958, was enacted, its primary aims were the development of the greyhound industry, including greyhound racing and coursing, and for better control of greyhound race tracks and coursing grounds. Under that Act, Bord na gCon was established and assumed the role performed since 1916 by the Irish Coursing Club in relation to the control of greyhound racing. The board was also charged with the responsibility for the improvement and development of the industry as a whole while the coursing club retained control of coursing throughout the 32 counties. Indeed, the 1958 Act recognised the special position of the coursing club, providing as it did in a Schedule to the Act the constitution for that body. The club itself was given responsibility under the Act for maintaining the greyhound stud book and for controlling coursing, subject to the general direction of Bord na gCon.

The relationship between the board and the club is, it would be fair to say, unique in Ireland. The 1958 Act shifted responsibility for the overall control and development of the industry from a private body, namely, the club, to the newly formed board. In doing so, the Act acknowledged the contribution made by the club to the industry by recognising it as the keeper of the greyhound stud book and the controlling authority for the breeding controlling authority for greyhound coursing and by reserving three seats at the board for members of the executive of the club.

The importance of the greyhound industry in rural areas cannot be underestimated. Some 8,000 people are involved in the industry as breeders, owners and trainers. The breeding, rearing and training of greyhounds is, as I have said on a number of occasions outside the House, an integral part of the fabric of rural life in Ireland. It is an alternative enterprise of not insignificant proportions. When compared with the more glamorous alternative enterprises, such as horse breeding or agri-tourism, it may seem at first glance to be of minor significance. However, the figures tell a different story.

The University of Limerick and Bord na gCon have carried out surveys recently which show that three-quarters of the 8,000 people directly involved in the industry are small farmers. The activities of greyhound breeding, rearing and training generated an estimated farm income of £16 million or an average of £2,600 per farmer. Overall, the value of the industry to the national economy is put at £40 million. At grass roots level, the industry is in reasonably good condition. Breeders and rearers have a great deal of expertise and enjoy natural advantages in the production of greyhounds. However, the sector has not reached its full potential.

The industry is basically export-orientated, its main market being the United Kingdom. If the sector is to reach its full potential, existing export markets must be exploited to the full and new markets identified and developed. To achieve this aim, it is critical that buyers are attracted from abroad. A key variable in this equation is the performance of the greyhound racing sector. Aside from the merits which this sector has to recommend it on its own account, such as the direct and indirect employment that it provides and its contribution to the quality of life for residents and tourists, it is also the shop window for the industry.

Against this background of opportunity and potential, it is regrettable to have to report to the House that the current state of the greyhound industry as a whole is far from prosperous. The vital statistics of this sector of the industry speak for themselves. Attendances at greyhound race meetings fell from one million people in 1975 to approximately 700,000 in 1992. Levy income, one of the board's two main sources of generated income, increased between 1981 and 1991 by only £100,000 to £1.2 million. This, of course, represents a substantial reduction in real terms. Levy income is believed to have dropped to a figure slightly in excess of £1 million in 1992. Reduced attendances have also affected the tote. Net proceeds from the tote dropped from £700,000 in 1981 to 169,000 in 1991. Provisional figures for 1992 show a slight recovery to about £300,000.

In recent years, the board's income has been supplemented by grants-in-aid from revenue generated by the off-course betting levy. These grants-in-aid amounted to £0.5 million in 1990 and £0.75 million in each of the years 1991, 1992 and 1993. Despite this, all of the board's income is now used up on administration and prize money, leaving no funds available for developing the industry or for grant aiding the maintenance or improvement of facilities at tracks.

It is significant to note that against the backdrop of an on-course betting levy and tote income declining in real terms, the board found it possible to maintain its contribution to prize money. The board's contribution to prize money is in excess of £800,000 per annum and represents some 55 per cent of the board's operating income. Total prize money has seen a marked increase since the mid-1980s with the contributions from private sector sponsors increasing steadily. The sponsors were recruited by the board and the track managements themselves.

The tracks have to rely on income from administration fees, trial fees, bookmaker pitch fees and profits from bar and catering activities. The tracks find it difficult to operate profitably on this basis and there are no funds generated which could be used for reinvestment in facilities. The net result is that the tracks have become progressively run down.

It is particularly unfortunate that this should happen when the development of the positive showcase features of the industry, mainly the racing sector, has been identified as a key element in reviving the fortunes of the industry as a whole. There is little prospect, given the ever expanding variety of leisure activities from which the general public can choose, of attracting increased attendance at greyhound race meetings unless the facilities provided are upgraded to the standards expected today. This simple truth must be fully appreciated and addressed by those involved in the industry.

The board has recognised the difficulty within the industry and responded by drawing up a five year development plan. This plan, which was adopted in 1990, is aimed at restoring the board to profitability and redeveloping the industry. Its principal features are computerisation of operations; adoption of cost cutting measures and the reorganisation of management functions; reallocation of prize money with emphasis on raising attendance at the premier tracks; securing increased sponsorship and other income generating activities; the introduction of improved controls of racing and betting; greyhound breeding to be designated as an alternative farm enterprise; a national stud and a marketing centre to be established; and Shelbourne Park to be developed as the premier greyhound track in the country. As part of this plan Clonmel track was sold and Youghal track has been put up for sale. The question of the disposal of the Harold's Cross track, and the transfer of its racing fixtures to Shelbourne Park, is under consideration.

These measures have not, however, been enough to give the necessary fillip to this depressed industry. It is obvious from the board's experience and to any informed observer of the industry that nothing less than a fundamental restructuring of the industry is necessary. Indeed, as I indicated at the outset, it is now 35 years since the Oireachtas had the opportunity to consider in detail the legislative foundation for this industry. In this context the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Walsh, established a task force consisting of representatives of Bord na gCon and officials from the Department to examine the structures, financing and legislation governing the whole industry. The group was established in 1992 and its remit included the issue of coursing.

The task force concluded its deliberations some time ago. Subsequently the Department submitted a position paper on the industry to Minister Walsh and myself. Following consideration of the issue by us, proposals were put to and approved by Government last June. The Government recognised that a comprehensive amendment of the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958, is desirable and that this would be a time consuming and complex exercise. It, therefore, approved the preparation and introduction into the Dáil of a short Bill dealing with three issues of an urgent nature. Heads of a second Bill updating and amending the provisions of the 1958 Act are at present in the course of preparation in the Department and I will be pressing to have this work completed as soon as possible.

As I indicated at the outset, the Bill now before the House contains the following provisions (1) to amend section 9 of the 1958 Act by reducing the term of office of the board members from five to three years, terminating on a rotational basis, and by removing the specific vocational requirement for board membership; (2) to amend section 36 of the Act to provide for the making of regulations concerning the muzzling of greyhounds at coursing meetings and trials and for the proper treatment and veterinary supervision of hares before, during and after such meetings; and (3) to amend section 23 of the Act by removing the prohibition on greyhound racing on Sundays, Good Friday and Christmas Day.

The current legislation provides that the board consists of six ordinary members and a chairman. Under the Act as it stands, the terms of office of all ordinary members of the board expires at the same time every fifth year. This arrangement is undesirable for two reasons. The five year term in office is too long and can lead to stagnation closing, as it does, the opportunity of introducing new people and ideas onto the board for a five year period. It also dilutes the Minister's responsibility to tailor the composition of the board to address current issues facing the industry as they arise. The appointment of a new board every five years also militates against continuity and an entirely new board would obviously take some time to find its feet.

The measures proposed in the Bill will, I hope, remedy this situation by reducing the term of office to three years and by providing that members retire on a rotational basis. This simply means that every year the positions held by two ordinary members of the board will fall vacant. This rotational mechanism has worked to great effect in a number of State bodies and is becoming increasingly popular in modern legislation.

Turning to the question of the removal of the specific vocational requirement, the Act as it stands provides that three of the six members of the board, and not more than three, shall be members of the standing committee of the Irish Coursing Club. It should be clear to Senators that this provision has as its raison d'tre the very historical basis of the board itself. As I already said, the board took over the club's role in relation to greyhound racing when it was established in 1959. In recognition of this and of the fact that the expertise in the control of greyhound racing at that time resided in the club, it was considered desirable to reserve these places on the board for club members.

This provision is now too restrictive and means that only three places are available for all other sectors of the industry, such as owners, breeders, trainers, private track owners and bookmakers. A case could also be made that the board should include someone with good business and financial experience and expertise. I fully recognise that members of the ICC could claim to represent greyhound owners, breeders, trainers and even private track owners, and, indeed, a new board might well contain several people who happen to be members of the standing committee of the ICC. However, the statutory requirement is no longer valid and should be removed. The inclusion of this provision in the 1958 Act must be looked at in the light of the circumstances obtaining at that time. That is to say that it was a recognition of the de facto position that the club had a role in relation to the control and organisation of greyhound racing up to the establishment of the board.

Earlier this year the question of coursing was given a comprehensive examination in the Dáil in the context of the Wildlife Bill, 1993. The debate on that Bill was valuable. As I made clear at that time, and on several occasions since, my aim to remove the kill. This feature of coursing is unacceptable in the current climate and taints the entire industry. I will use every means at my disposal to achieve this end. The Irish Coursing Club has voluntarily introduced controls and measures aimed at eliminating the kill during coursing meetings and trials. These include rules changes to reduce the number of courses; improved veterinary supervision; better conservation of hare stocks and the development of a muzzle. This latter measure has required significant research by the club. Initially a soft leather muzzle was used and more recently a plastic one. The search for the most suitable muzzle from an animal welfare point of view will continue.

I have set up a monitoring committee within the Department to oversee the implementation of these measures, to assess their implications and to advise on the need for any other measures. In accordance with the agreement they reached with me, the ICC commenced the phasing in of muzzling on a trial basis at the beginning of the current season. In the initial stage of the trials, the greyhounds participating in the semi-finals and finals of all stakes were muzzled. The ICC recently agreed to extend these trials on muzzling to over 50 per cent of all courses.

The latest information available to me, covering the period up to 10 December, is that out of 1,932 courses involving muzzles six hares were killed and ten more were injured and were put down. The momentum towards increasing the level of muzzling will continue with all greyhounds being muzzled at enclosed coursing meetings before the end of this season and possibly as early as January.

It is my belief that the agreement which we have reached with the club will be observed without the necessity of legislative backing. Nevertheless, I consider it prudent to avail of this opportunity to include a provision authorising the Minister to make regulations providing for the muzzling of greyhounds at coursing meetings and for the proper care and veterinary supervision of hares before, during and after such meetings. These are enabling provisions which will give the Minister power to introduce the required measures without delay if the need arises. In the present circumstances and in view of the responsible attitude adopted by the club, the need for the regulations is questionable. I hope Senators agree that my policy of control by consent is the correct one in this issue. However, I assure the House that if the need arises I will have no hesitation in introducing appropriate regulations.

Turning to the third and final substantial issue in the Bill, it is proposed to remove the statutory provision prohibiting greyhound racing on Sundays, Good Friday and Christmas Day. The removal of the restriction on holding greyhound races on particular days is universally welcomed by all sectors of the industry. It should be clear that the greyhound industry is in direct competition with other activities in the leisure business. No similar restrictions concerning the days on which horse racing may take place exist and I believe it would be only fair to apply the same principle to the greyhound industry. For this reason I seek the removal of references to all prohibited days. While I have no particular desire to see greyhound racing on Good Friday or Christmas Day, I am staunchly of the view that the greyhound industry should not be seen as operating at any disadvantage, whether real or perceived, vis-à-vis other forms of entertainment against which they have to compete for customers.

The Bill also provides that this measure will be effective from 1 December 1992. This is being done to regularise the position regarding two particular meetings held on Sundays during the past year, one of which was a charity event organised by the board and the other major international event at the privately owned Dundalk track. At the time both of these events were run, Government policy in regard to the ban on Sunday racing had been publicly stated. Consequently, I believe this measure is warranted and desirable.

In conclusion, I would say that it is our responsibility as legislators to provide the statutory framework which will enable the industry to reach its full potential. The current legislative framework is the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958. A thorough overhaul of this legislation is now called for and I hope to present a Bill to the House in the new year which will hopefully establish a legal framework which can be instrumental in enabling the greyhound industry to reach its full potential.

In the interim this preliminary Bill, dealing with three urgent matters, is presented to the House for adoption. The issues — the reconstitution of Bord na gCon, the removal of the ban of Sunday greyhound racing and enabling provisions empowering the Minister to make regulations governing the muzzling of greyhounds at coursing meetings and veterinary supervision of hares — are desirable and I recommend their adoption to the House.

Senator Naughten has given way to Senator Dardis. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I thank Senator Naughten for facilitating me. This legislation would not be before the House were it not for the courage of Deputy Gregory in putting forward his Bill in the other House. This Bill was introduced as a response to that. The Minister said that the heads of a second Bill updating and amending the provisions of the 1958 Act are being prepared. Why not do the two things together? This matter is being dealt with hastily, although I realise the Government gave a commitment on the basis of what was said in the Dáil and it is now being honoured.

The Bill is a step in the right direction, but I have one serious reservation regarding the manner in which members are appointed to the board. We are going backwards rather than forwards in this regard. The industry is in crisis, but it has enormous potential. It has been identified as an industry which could contribute significantly to farm incomes as a secondary activity or as an outside industry.

I know of cases where Leader funds have been used to help improve greyhound breeding and the industry and that is sensible. However, the State cannot be happy about the way the industry is supported or the way it has declined. The Minister mentioned figures in regard to the fall-off in attendance at race meetings and the fall-off in revenue from the tote and betting in general. Reasons for this include a lack of facilities at race tracks. The public is becoming more sophisticated and demanding in terms of facilities and of sport, probably as a result of televised world events. Many greyhound tracks in this country leave a lot to be desired in terms of facilities. I do not blame those managing these track because there is a shortage of funds. The industry needs a shake-up and I hope the Minister and his Department will try to effect this shake-up when they produce the promised legislation. An industry worth £40 million to the Exchequer, with significant export earning potential, deserves more than lip service. Successive Governments should examine their consciences in this regard.

I refer to the shipping of greyhounds to countries like Spain and the conditions in which they are shipped and kept in such countries. I realise it is difficult to intervene in the internal affairs of another country, but it is important that animals, greyhounds or otherwise, are shipped to other countries in the best conditions. They should not be subjected to any pain or torture, just as the hare should not be subjected to pain or torture.

I object to section 2 of the Bill, which states: "The Minister shall before the 1st day of January, 1994, [he is going to have an interesting Christmas if he must do this before January 1994] appoint 6 persons to be ordinary members of the Board." The section also refers to the term of office and so on. It is bad practice that the Minister is in a position to unilaterally appoint six members to the board without reference to their qualifications. It is a case of jobs for the boys at its worst and it is manifested in the legislation. Provision has been made in successive legislation which has gone through this House in the past few years to allow different vocational interests to have representation on boards. In a Bill from the Department of Agriculture relating to An Bord Glas vocational interests were taken into account. The Environmental Protection Agency Bill, introduced in this House by Deputy Harney, was another example of this and there are many more. This is the only recent example I can think of where this is evident. It has not been specified that some members of the board should come from the Irish Coursing Club, breeders, the veterinary profession, the IFA or bodies who have a direct interest in the sport and industry. I oppose the Bill only on those grounds. However, given the seasonal nature of the debate, I will not push it to a vote.

Another matter I am unhappy about relates to section 3, which states that the Minster may make regulations providing for the muzzling of greyhounds. I would say he "shall" make regulations because it should not be discretionary. Given the outcry about coursing and its associated activities, it should not be a discretionary matter. It is explicit that muzzling should come into force and for that reason I do not think the discretion should be there. It is questionable whether muzzling has had any effect and, although I am not speaking from first hand experience, I understand there have been incidents where muzzled dogs have destroyed hares. That is my understanding, though I am open to correction.

It is a step in the right direction to have veterinary supervision. Section 3(a)(iii) states that the Minister may make regulations providing for the supervision by a veterinary surgeon of hares coursed in events prior to, during and after the events. I am not clear as to who will appoint the veterinary surgeon or from where he will come. Will the Irish Coursing Club or the Minister vest authority in the veterinary surgeon? I am not clear about that and the Minister might clarify it in his reply.

I am tempted to table amendments to sections 2 and 3 but their value is likely to be extremely limited as they have been debated exhaustively in the Lower House. We would only be going through a charade if we did the same thing here. It would just be wasting the time to go back over the same arguments without making any progress.

As regards the days on which racing can take place, I do not think they should include Christmas Day and Good Friday, but that is a personal observation. It is sensible to have it on Sunday but I do not think people want to go to the dogs on Christmas Day. They might want to go to the dogs in another sense but hardly in the literal sense of attending a dog track. From that point of view I do not see this provision as being of any value. There is no doubt that, over the years, the Christmas holiday period has become more commercialised. One only has to see English football matches being played on St. Stephen's Day to recognise that. If the greyhound industry is competing within that environment, then I suppose some argument can be made that there should be racing on Christmas Day, but I do not see the sense of it.

The issue of the Minister appointing six persons to the board was also mentioned. It should be noted that the Irish horse racing authority — to be established — will involve breeders and others in that industry. Given our recent progress in stopping abuses, such as packing a board with pals, whether suitably qualified or not, it is not good enough to have the same thing appear in section 2(2)(a) which states that "The Minister shall, before the 1st day of January, 1994, appoint six persons to be ordinary members of the Board...". The Minister should look at that again but, unfortunately, I suspect he will not.

I welcome the Minister to the House. I know him well; we have been good friends since he became a Member of the Oireachtas. On occasion we have both served as members of delegations abroad.

I wish the Minister well in introducing this Bill and thank him for the great interest he has taken in the greyhound industry since becoming Minister. Like so many Members of the Oireachtas, past and present, I have always had a keen interest in the greyhound industry and its varying aspects from breeding to track racing and coursing. I have bred greyhounds and raced them on the track and at coursing meetings.

The final paragraph of the Minister's speech stated that:

In the interim this preliminary Bill dealing with three urgent matters is presented to the House for adoption. The issues — the reconstitution of Bord na gCon, the removal of the ban on Sunday greyhound racing and enabling provisions empowering the Minister to make regulations governing the muzzling of greyhounds at coursing meetings, and veterinary supervision of hares — are desirable and I recommend their adoption to the House.

I will make further comments on those points later in my contribution. I have always regarded greyhound people as being the salt of the earth. Coursing and greyhound racing are two of the greatest traditional sports in this country. I have also been a member of another traditional sporting organisation, the GAA, and I feel that coursing and greyhound racing follow the same fine sporting traditions.

The main interest of those involved in greyhound racing is the welfare of the dog. Such people escape the stressful life of business or politics through this leisurely pursuit. I recall reading an English book on greyhound racing which mentioned the great nights in Cruise's Hotel after Irish Cup meetings. It is a great sport which keeps people's minds occupied in a beneficial way. Those involved in greyhound racing contribute much to the life of the country, particularly the social life. A night at the dogs can be both rewarding and entertaining. In their own way, greyhound industry people are a breed unto themselves.

Hear, hear.

Definitely, Senator. I agree they are a race unto themselves. The true dog enthusiast would prefer to spend his last £25 or £30 at the veterinary clinic to treat his dog's injury than meet his own medical needs. The real greyhound man has such a love for his dog that he would buy the best mincemeat or round steak for the animal rather than for himself or his family. The Minister may consider this an exaggeration but I can assure him that this happens all over the country. I have seen it for myself and I have done it myself.

The Bill before the House deals with muzzling greyhounds and the reconstitution of Bord na gCon before 1 January 1994. I will have more to say on the latter point later. The provision in the Bill for muzzling greyhounds may have been unnecessary despite severe pressure from the anti-coursing lobby. I have always believed that those who do not run coursing meetings properly should not be allowed to run any meetings. At one time, the most important meeting in the country, the all-Ireland meeting, did not run a quality meeting. Many hares were killed and the organisers should have been reprimanded for that. They should also have abandoned the meeting when it became obvious the hares were not strong enough to avoid the dogs.

Subsection (3)(a)(iii) states that the Minister may make regulations providing for "the supervision by a veterinary surgeon of hares coursed in events prior to, during and after the events." Subsection (3)(a)(v) states that the Minister may make regulations "prohibiting the coursing of a hare in an event if the hare has been coursed in an event at a prior authorised coursing meeting...". These provisions should have been in place long before now. If they had, the anti-coursing lobby would not be as strong as it is today.

I refer to an article I read in The Irish Press of 1 December 1993 entitled “Hare Coursing: A View from Outside”. It was written by Zarina Geloo, a visiting journalist from Zambia, who attended a coursing meeting for the first time and found it did not live up to its reputation as a barbarian or uncivilised sport. She wrote:

I thought it would be blood and gore — it was not. And I was disappointed. I had heard so much about Ireland's most "despicable" pastime. I had flown thousands of miles to be told in Dublin that I would see the worst possible side of Irish national barbarism.

Why did she come to Ireland to see this? She did so because people were decrying one of our great national sports and were depicting Irish people as worse than they actually are. This is a shame. She continued:

I was told I would cringe to the dying scream of the poor hapless hare and be revolted by the savage exultation on the faces of its supporters. I had all the literature on this abominable act and was ready to do battle for the hare, but more importantly, launch my own savage attack on coursers.

It is obvious where she acquired the literature. Irish people always criticise our great national pastimes in such a way as to suggest they should be eliminated. This would be very wrong. She wrote:

I saw a watchful vet look out for unfit hares. Cheers went up for the hare. I saw no savage exultation on the faces of the crowd when two hares got killed. [I would prefer if no hares were killed but some do] The only indication I got that something had happened was the silence from the crowd at a time when I expected them to go into a wild frenzy.

She pointed out that:

The coursers showed remarkable restraint in dealing with attacks on their characters merely saying it was just like people in big towns to condemn a sport some of them had only heard about [the problem is those in the anti-coursing lobby have only heard about but not seen coursing] or seen on television. As far as they were concerned the game would go on.

This journalist from Zambia heard so much about the barbarism of this sport that she had to come and see it for herself. However she found it was the opposite to what she had been led to believe.

The anti-coursing lobby have gone too far. They have sent letters to farmers, who allow coursing meetings to be held on their Land, threatening that their hay would be burned if they allowed their fields to be used for coursing. It is outrageous for this to happen in a civilised country like Ireland. On some farms hay was burned and there was a strong suspicion that the anti-coursing lobby was responsible. Those opposed to coursing should use legitimate means to advance their case. They have gone too far. Coursing is a way of life for us and should always remain so.

I hope the muzzling of greyhounds is a success. Those who take part in coursing should continue to experiment during the year on the type of muzzle to be used. I have reservations as to whether muzzling is necessary or not. Coursing meetings should be properly run and only fit hares should be used.

The anti-blood sports lobby has contributed to the decline of hares. I read an article in the Cork Examiner which stated that foxes have eliminated hares. People ceased killing foxes because of objections to the wearing of mink and fur coats. Other animals are killed for the provision of clothes. Leather comes from the hides of cattle. There are so many foxes in the country that they are hungry and are eliminating good hares. This is the problem facing our great national sport of coursing. We do not have strong enough hares to ensure the continuation of the sport in the way we knew it years ago.

I understand that leather and plastic muzzles have been used, but no doubt a lighter form of muzzle would allow the hare through it. Dogs must be given a chance to ensure they can give of their best. Owners must ensure that the work they put into training dogs is rewarded. I urge the ICC to have appropriate muzzles in place for the 1994-95 season.

I have said the anti-coursing lobby is unreasonable and there is no doubt about this. Its true colours were shown on "The Late Late Show" programme last September when it firmly aligned itself with an organisation which attempted to sabotage our tourist industry. This organisation's aims includes the abolition of shooting, to which I already referred, fishing, the killing of all farm animals and other outrageous aspirations.

Coursing has always been and will be an integral part of the greyhound industry. Coursing is all about pace. This is the real pace of the dogs as distinct from the pace one would witness at the track where trapping and bend trouble can play a role. Pacing is proved by the continuous coursing of dogs. Coursing is vital to breeding. Prudent breeders would far prefer to buy the pups of a coursing bitch which has won a trial stake than those of a bitch which has won a good stake on the track. Very few Oaks winners at Harolds Cross have proved to be outstanding brood bitches. On the other hand, a bitch called Little Shoe, who refused to run on the track when trialled in Galway, subsequently won two Waterloo Cup plates and a number of cups including Corn na Gaillimhe. She was sold to her owner, Brian Divilly, for only £100 because she would not track. Yet she proved to be an outstanding brood bitch over the past ten to 12 years. All of her litters were successful. She bred six or seven qualifiers for the national stakes held in Clonmel. Dogs must be good to qualify for such an event. I know this from my experience of greyhound breeding. It is track, not coursing, dogs which make money for their owners. Coursing is necessary to produce good track dogs which will benefit the industry and the economy. Arguably the top sire of the same period, I'm Slippy, came from good coursing stock. I make these points to emphasise that coursing is vital to the success of the industry.

I presume open coursing will not be subject to these regulations, particularly in relation to muzzling. Open coursing is different to closed coursing. I have been an attender at and a follower of coursing. As I said already, I am a member of another sporting organisation, the GAA. Many great exponents of hurling and football were involved in greyhounds, such as Seán Purcell of Galway, Mick Higgins of Cavan, Kevin Heffernan of Dublin, James McCarton of Down, Dave Heaney, of whom I am privileged to be a colleague on the Munster council of the GAA, and Jimmy Barry Murphy, who won all-Ireland medals in both hurling and football. The three members of the senior hurling selection committee in Limerick, of whom I am one, are great greyhound enthusiasts, including the manager, Tom Ryan. It is a traditional Irish sport which goes hand in hand with the GAA. As an Irishman, I would like to see it survive and prosper.

Section 2 of the Bill refers to the reconstitution of the new board. I am somewhat disappointed that it will no longer be compulsory for three members of the ICC to be members of the board. The ICC was the first body set up to control coursing and the greyhound industry. There was coursing in Ireland long before there was greyhound track racing. It controlled all greyhound racing and tracks until the formation of Bord na gCon and has played an important part in the promotion of the greyhound industry.

Senator Dardis made the point, with which I agree, that appointments should be made from the representative bodies. The Minister will appoint the six members; and there are people whom I would like to see him appoint, although he may not be in a position to do so. I may be disappointed when I see who is appointed because people who have contributed to the greyhound industry and coursing all their life — and not just my friends - should be appointed.

I know a man who is the secretary of a coursing club; his father was involved in coursing and his uncle was probably the greatest sportswriter in the country on both GAA and greyhounds. I cannot mention his name, but I would like to see people like him appointed to the board. Such people deserve to be appointed. When the board is announced by the Minister, before 1 January, people will be disappointed and interested lobbies should be represented.

I understand the Minister's concern about having a more balanced board representing all interests in the industry and this provision will not exclude coursing people. I do not know whether the Minister or the Minister of State who is here today will decide that, but if the Minister of State has an input I would stress to him that the coursing people who were responsible for the greyhound industry in its initial years should be represented.

The new board must make every effort to make greyhound racing more comfortable and prove that a night at the dogs is an enjoyable social occasion or else the crowds will not return. The board must also address the question of our having too many tracks for the size of our population and, more importantly, for the number of dogs in the country. It is well known that there is a decrease in meetings resulting in fewer pups, as was referred to already, saplings and race dogs being available. It was disappointing to see people going to greyhound racing tracks and seeing races with only two, three or four dogs. That will not attract people in the future.

Sometimes owners were annoyed that dogs were not being raced at tracks and would go out of their time. That happened a long time ago but now it is quite the opposite. The same dogs seem to be running at every race meeting held at some tracks. Many stakes did not fill during the year, which indicates to me that all is not well in the industry. However, that does not apply to all tracks. In Limerick, Kerry and Cork, which is the home of greyhound racing — although the Cathaoirleach may not agree — there are good stakes and entries. There are other tracks which are not so good, so I would like that question to be addressed.

I also hope that the board will address the question of the sale of greyhounds. I accept that most greyhounds are sold subsequent to performance or trial, having been seen performing by the new purchaser or agent. Unfortunately, the official sales at Shelbourne Park and in Limerick do not seem to be very successful for this reason. I would further question the role of the Bord na gCon sales force. This body seems to be practically non-existent and the whole question of sales needs to be fully addressed by the board. There are some fly-by-nights buying greyhounds and selling them wherever they buy them at a profit. If they make a profit, the poor greyhound owner is left with the dog and may lose the sale.

I would also like to refer to the generosity of Bord na gCon and compliment the present board, especially the chief executive, Seán Collins, and the chairman, Kevin Frost. They are extremely generous to charities which seek permission to run meetings at tracks to raise moneys. They do not charge much and the charities benefit financially and otherwise. I know from my own experience as a member of a GAA club and the county board that we have used tracks and made money for charity. With these reservations, which I hope the Minister of State will consider, I welcome the Bill.

I have a few things to say which will not please my good friend Senator Rory Kiely, or even, perhaps, the Cathaoirleach. Far from seeing this as a great national sport, I think it is a great national disgrace of which we should be thoroughly ashamed. I am not the slightest bit intimidated by Senator Rory Kiely describing this as an Irish activity, with almost the implication that one is guilty of un-Irish activity by opposing it. Of course, I oppose it; I think most civilised people do. I do not see anything elevating in the spectacle of a small, frightened animal being torn to shreds by these revolting dogs. I rather like dogs, but the most obscene of all dogs is that disgusting, semi-naked animal, the greyhound.

They are lovely dogs.

It is a most unpleasant, savage beast, and all my sympathies are with the hare. Senator Henry is saying vociferously to me that she loves greyhounds. Well, she can love them all she wants as far as I am concerned; I do not have to like them just because she does.

I also love the hare.

The Senator has a funny way of showing it. It is rather like the present Pope saying he loves the sinner and hates the sin. I happen to know when I am loved and if I was a hare and one of the Senator's horrible greyhounds was advancing on my backside with its gnashers out, I can assure the Senator that I would not feel particularly loved.

It is all right, Senator Norris, as long as you do not take pleasure in it.

I do not think I would take pleasure in it and I very much doubt if Senator Kiely would either. Is the House aware of the meaning of the expression "going to the dogs"? It is certainly an expression with which I am familiar.

It has two meanings.

It means that one is morally going down the drain because one is witnessing the disgusting spectacles with which the Irish public have become so familiar that they are now totally against the alleged sport of coursing. The arguments propounded by Senator Kiely would equally apply if he was attempting to defend cock fighting, bear baiting, bull fighting or dog fighting. One could raise exactly the same arguments such as that it strengthens the racing of the dog or the bear. It is all nonsense because it excludes any degree of understanding of or compassion for the innocent victim.

I am not always given to quoting the sayings of great saints of the Roman Catholic Church and I have to say that St. Thomas More is not a person who appeals greatly to me. However, I recall that when I read Utopia I was amazed by his callousness towards human beings, but even more amazed by the vehement feelings he expressed on hare coursing. I passed this quotation from Utopia to my good friend, Deputy Gregory, whose valiant work in this area I commend. At lunch today he very kindly gave it to me and saved me the trouble of going down to the College of the Sacred and Undivided Trinity and looking for it in my own copy of Utopia. Senator Kiely and the clergy who deface their cloth by attending coursing meetings in Roman and other collars would do well to read Utopia and particularly the section where St. Thomas More puts the moral position clearly on the record. He says:

Thou shouldst rather be moved with pity to see a silly innocent hare murdered of a dog, the weak of the stronger, the fearful of the fierce, the innocent of the cruel and unmerciful. Therefore, all this exercise of hunting is a thing unworthy to be used of free men.

There is a comprehensive answer to any suggestion that this is an innately Irish sport and that we are not fully Irish if we do not endorse this bloodthirsty activity.

My hands are not entirely clean in this either. I understand the hunting instinct as it is something we all have. I speak with some feeling on the matter because I remember as a child going out to Bull Island. I was pretty fit in those days and I was able to catch two leverets and bring them home with me. They were frightened but seemed to be all right. I did not realise the damage I was doing and the terror I was causing to these unfortunate animals. We kept them in an outhouse overnight and next morning inevitably they were dead. It was explained to me by my mother that one of the reasons was that hares have an unusually sensitive nervous system and they can die very easily of fright. This is one of the answers to the nonsense suggestion of muzzling the dogs. Why half measures? Why not just ban the thing outright? Muzzling does not work.

Senator Dardis made an interesting and careful speech, but his attention must have been distracted when he said he was not sure whether hares were ever actually killed by muzzled dogs. I say his attention must have been momentarily distracted because the Minister quite forthrightly places on the record——

Acting Chairman

Senator Norris, you are inviting me to respond and I am doing my best to resist.

You are very good at resisting. Six hares were killed and ten more injured and put down within the last year by muzzled dogs. This is mentioned in the Minister's own speech, so we know that they are injured and that they do have to be put down. The terror of the hare which St. Thomas More insists upon is a thing about which I feel strongly. The terror of these small animals is something that can easily lead to their death because of their unusually delicate nervous system.

I was fortunate enough to have lunch with the greyhound espousing Senator Henry and the hare loving Deputy Gregory. When we were discussing this, Deputy Gregory told me that the old Northern Ireland Assembly voted overwhelmingly to outlaw this vicious sport. The man who proposed this Bill said that putting the racing board people in charge of monitoring the hares was like putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank. I oppose hare coursing, but if one is going to allow muzzling one must have independent monitoring. There is no point in having discredited organisations like the Irish Coursing Club doing their own monitoring. Apart from anything else, it is not fair on them, not that I want to be fair to them. It does not produce any objective criteria to reassure the public that the welfare of the hares is being ensured.

It is also extraordinary that although the Northern Ireland Assembly passed that Bill, the British Parliament declined to implement it. Perhaps Senator Kiely will not be quite so pleased to learn that in this instance at least it was not an Ulster activity but that the British Parliament obviously felt it was part of the British way of life. Perhaps he will be pleased to join in what is apparently quite a British activity.

I have put down some amendments. One seeks to replace the word "may" with the word "shall". The argument was made effectively this afternoon by Senator Dardis. I also, in consultation with Deputy Gregory, put down an amendment dealing with the monitoring and supervision by an independent authority and another amendment which would allow access to veterinary officials and the fee paying public.

If this is such a wonderful Irish sport why do these shy little rural flowers, who are so terribly misunderstood by Dublin 4, Dublin 1, where Deputy Gregory comes from, and Dublin 2, where Senator Henry is admiring the greyhounds, feel it necessary to exclude people who might not share their unqualified delight in butchery? Why are they so retiring? If it is such a lovely thing to witness a small animal being torn to shreds, why do we not have everybody going and being morally improved by this spectacle? Why are certain groups and categories of people or people who look as if they do not agree with the sport excluded?

I honour Deputy Gregory for his work on behalf of the innocent, frightened and small animal. I hope the Minister will take on board some of the arguments, particularly with regard to independent monitoring, otherwise the system becomes a farce and useless. I wish there was no hare coursing at all. It seems to me to be the same kind of activity as bear baiting, cock fighting, dog fighting, all of which we disapprove. The only argument I can see for continuing to allow it is that by driving it underground one would make it even more vicious. We have the spectacle of the continuation of cock fights and dog fights in this country——

That is not a fair comparison.

——which is a reproach to the Irish people. I may not be here to move the amendments because the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs is meeting Mr. Arafat at 3.10 p.m. Senator Henry has my full approval to move the amendments on my behalf if, after what I had to say about greyhounds, she is still prepared in her generous and Christian fashion to do so.

The Senator should stick to foreign affairs; he knows very little about coursing.

Acting Chairman

Senator Norris, I would not like you to have the harebrained idea, if I may use that phrase, that dog racing and hare coursing are the same thing. Of course, they are not.

No. they are not. I am quite happy if people want to see these revolting animals running around; it is a comparatively harmless sport.

But it would be very hard to have dog racing without coursing.

I welcome the Minister and congratulate him on the Bill. I am pleased the Government agreed to undertake a comprehensive review of the greyhound industry. There is a serious need to revamp the greyhound industry with a view to enhancing it as a tourist attraction, as a means of creating further employment and increasing its export value.

As a tourist attraction there is a need for proper marketing of the sport and for publicising its star attractions such as the Derby, the Puppy Derby, the Leger and the Irish Cup, right down to the smallest coursing meeting of the year. The greyhound industry is export oriented and we must see tourism as a means of ensuring that the attraction and value of the industry is highlighted at all times and in as many places as possible. While we see calendars with listings and timings of all the year's horse racing meetings, I have yet to see such presentation for the greyhound industry.

I do not recall hearing meetings advertised or broadcast on local radio. I hope this situation will be reversed and that it will follow the example of RTÉ which has Micheál Ó Muircheartaigh introducing an excellent advertisement for the industry, "A Night at the Dogs". With tourism also in mind this Bill will allow greyhound racing on previously prohibited days and while I agree with the Minister I do not agree with greyhound racing or coursing on Christmas Day or Good Friday. It is imperative to allow the greyhound industry to have the use of Sundays and other days when there is a festival or a tourist attraction in a particular area. It is proper for the greyhound industry to display its ability to provide entertainment for all on such occasions.

It is imperative that the industry, through this Bill, will have wider representation on Bord na gCon which will ensure a far wider view of its problems and possible solutions. In regard to increased interest in the industry, I was always a little disappointed that Bord na gCon did not initiate, as in other sports, a national track championship for all the tracks in the country and then, on a knock out basis, advance to a grand final, which would create enormous interest at local and national level. This competition could be determined on an eight race programme with three dogs representing each track in each race and a points system, the total result at the end of the night determining the advance to the next round. It would give owners of all grades of dog a chance to show their wares as representatives of their local track and create an interest and potential that could only be to the benefit of tracks, owners and breeders. I hope that such a suggestion will be investigated.

In a short time the Minister has taken an important step towards creating a situation acceptable to all. In providing for the muzzling of the greyhound and the presence of veterinary personnel, he has ensured that every possible effort has been made to allow coursing to continue as a sport to be enjoyed and not as a hunt for hares to be killed. I ask the Minister to continue monitoring the situation regarding coursing meetings, the release of hares at the end of each meeting and to ensure that the hares are returned to their natural habitat. It should not be a major problem in the modern electronic world to ensure that hares released at the end of a meeting are not coursed again by marking them with a chip or similar device. I commend the Minister on this Bill and look forward to the future review of this industry in a subsequent Bill.

Mr. Naughten

I welcome the Minister to the House and am delighted that he has responsibility for the greyhound industry because he will do his utmost to get it back on a proper footing. There is no question about it, much work needs to be done with regard to the industry. The industry is a shambles and needs a direct injection of capital to get it back on its feet.

I regret we do not have a comprehensive Bill dealing with the greyhound industry. This Bill makes only two major changes to the industry, one in regard to the board and the other in regard to the muzzling of dogs and the requirement of veterinary inspection. A more comprehensive Bill would, I hope, restore confidence in the industry and create the type of development we would all like to see in the greyhound industry in general, as distinct from open air coursing.

The Minister presented this Bill as part of a wider review of the greyhound industry and intends bringing in further legislation within the coming year. I regret that all the changes to the industry were not made in one Bill as we would then be in a better position to judge precisely what the Minister had in mind. As things stand it seems there are serious difficulties in the relationship between Bord na gCon and the Irish Coursing Club. In regard to the membership of the board, if I were putting down an amendment, I would put down one to increase the number of directors appointed and to ensure that the Irish Coursing Club had representation on Bord na gCon. However, I am long enough in this House to know the Minster will not accept an amendment that would send the Bill back to the other House in the new year. I hope he will see his way to expand the board and allow the Irish Coursing Club to have representation on it. Senator Kiely referred to the same difficulty.

Like many Members of this House, I occasionally go to coursing meetings and the track, although not nearly as often as I would like. I have always enjoyed it. Very often people who talk about live hare coursing are those who know nothing about the sport and have never seen what happens at a coursing meeting. Anybody who goes to a coursing meeting will know that everybody there will cheer when the hare gets away. Nobody goes there to see hares being killed.

Unfortunately hares are killed and the Irish Coursing Club have contributed in no small way to much of the bad publicity in so far as they allowed hares, which should not have been used, to be raced. I welcome the introduction of the veterinary inspector. Many of my friends are breeders and owners of greyhounds and as Senator Kiely said earlier, it is a great sport in rural areas.

As a very small boy I remember people hunting hares with dogs, it is a sport that goes back for generations. I agree with everything done to regulate the sport. If the regulations were implemented the brutality on an occasion last February would not have taken place. Those positive aspects of the Bill are welcome. The importance of coursing and the whole greyhound industry and the part it plays in rural Ireland must be recognised. It often provides an alternative income for farmers who rear, train or course dogs. It is a sizeable industry and anyone who has been to Clonmel in February will have seen the size of the industry and the level of interest in it.

I would like to refer to a couple of points not dealt with in this Bill but which may arise if the Minister brings forward another Bill next year, with regard to the issue of alternative farming. Nobody knows better than the Minister of State that farmers' incomes will reduce over the next couple of years as a result of what happened with CAP and GATT and we need other industries and opportunities to develop alternative incomes. The greyhound industry would present more opportunities than deer farming or other industries that have been encouraged because there are limited markets for them. The greyhound industry can be expanded substantially and create different incomes for many farmers. I would like to see that dealt with and grants for the industry reintroduced. I understand that under the last grant scheme there was a requirement for planning permission for the construction of kennels or for putting in runs, for example. I do not see why the planning permission should be needed in rural areas. I hope that a grant scheme will be reintroduced in the coming year.

The Minister referred to the survey done by the University of Limerick which showed that 6,000 of the 8,000 people involved in the industry come from farming backgrounds. The rural environment is an ideal one for breeding and rearing young dogs. Therefore, it does not surprise me that 75 per cent of the people involved come from rural areas. That gives an indication of the vital importance of this industry and I understand its value is in the region of £40 million.

There is a lot of work to be done with regard to the breeding and rearing of dogs, particularly breeding, and only a little research has been done here. I would like to see more research and development on breeding and on the type of dog bred in this country. We breed more of the sprinter or short distance runner dogs whereas, if we bred dogs for stamina, we might be able to open up an export market to the USA, another aspect of the industry that needs to be examined.

I hope the directors the Minister appoints to the board can contribute to the development of the industry and will not be appointed simply because they know somebody. They should be committed to developing the industry. I take the point that one also needs business people involved, but it is important to have people who know the industry and that is why the Irish Coursing Club should have representatives on the board. I am a member of another society, people who knew little about it gained control of it and some of the decisions they made were totally unsuitable for the breed of animal with which they were dealing.

Senator Kiely referred to one of the best breeding bitches in the country, Little Shoe, which happened to be bred and reared close to my home. That dog would not run on the track but it coursed and became one of the best breeding dogs in the country. It proves there is a need for track racing and coursing. I mentioned it is a declining industry, that a new board must concentrate on improving the facilities at dog tracks and coursing meetings and, thereby, try to encourage the participation of more people in the sport and increase attendances. If that can be done there will be more meetings and a healthier and better industry.

Often, when we hear the anti-coursing lobby talking about coursing, it is because they do not understand the sport. It is a rural sport and often those who object to it are urban based, which is a great pity. Occasionally there is a meeting, and I referred to one held last February where even the old guidelines or principles were not adhered to, if they had been we would not have had all the bad publicity which resulted in Deputy Gregory's Private Members' Bill in the Dáil.

I welcome the provision regarding the veterinary inspection but I wonder, and the point has been raised already, whether it will be a veterinary surgeon from the Department or a local veterinarian who might be involved with the coursing club. It is important that the criteria laid down in this Bill are implemented and that we would encourage coursing clubs to insist on muzzling rather than legislating for that. It is also important that the veterinary surgeon should be independent and carry out the job in an effective and efficient manner.

The contribution by those who catch hares for coursing meetings and the procedures they follow are not often fully appreciated. Without them there would be an unlimited amount of inbreeding and, inevitably, disease. By virtue of the fact that these people go out and hunt the hares, catch them for the coursing meetings and let them out again in another area, they are automatically introducing a safeguard as far as a breeding programme is concerned.

I welcome the change in the regulation regarding Sunday racing and I have no difficulty with that. I can appreciate that the same will apply to Christmas Day and Good Friday, but I do not think there is a great demand for racing then so I have no problem with it. I stated that the industry is of major importance and I would like to see every effort made to improve it. That would be possible with a few simple changes and good management so that we can increase the attendances at meetings thereby increasing the revenue, a good breeding programme would increase our exports.

On the issue of exports one matter concerns me. The Department should examine the situation regarding the sale of dogs to Spain which is, undoubtedly, causing concern to genuine greyhound breeders. They are not happy with people who buy dogs for export to Spain. Often, the dogs are shipped in undesirable conditions, but when they arrive I understand they are badly treated and raced when they are barely able to stand up. I know greyhound owners with dogs of limited value — they might not be fast enough or they will not course or track — and the owners would put their dogs down before they sell them to that market. I appeal to the Minister to examine that aspect of the industry to see what can be done to prevent abuse in that area. I would propose an amendment if it was another time of the year but I appeal to the Minister to listen to the sentiments expressed by Senator Kiely to amend the figure of six to nine.

I welcome the Minister to the Seanad and congratulate him on his work for the greyhound industry. The Minister said the greyhound industry is a significant source of employment in rural areas. I understand that 8,000 people are involved in the industry as breeders, owners and trainers. It was estimated that about 10,000 people are employed in the operation of tracks and the supply of ancillary services. This is a significant figure in view of our employment problem. As it is an indigenous industry it should be nurtured and developed.

I come from an area that borders a disadvantaged area. There are no cereal or root crop industry there and the cattle, sheep, pigs and greyhounds industries are significant contributors to income. Greyhound breeding is an integral part of rural life. It is the small farmers' occupation. The country cottier may turn his acre into a kennel where he keeps three or four dames to breed the greyhounds. He may sell some of these at three months old or rear them to 14 or 18 months when he will take them to time trials or sales. It is a significant means of financing for the farmer and cottier. These small farmers have carried on this tradition for many years. Bord na gCon, in their survey of small farmers, stated that 6,000 of the 8,000 breeders are from agricultural areas. That firmly places the industry's base in rural Ireland.

The Minister also stated that these activities generate an estimated farm income of £16 million or an average of £2,600 per farmer. That is a nice handshake at the end of the year. The industry is worth about £40 million to the economy which is a great achievement and by nurturing the industry that figure can be increased.

In my area of Kanturk there are many such breeders and trainers. I was involved at an early age helping in the training of dogs. One of my chores involved going to the public houses for waste porter which was fed to the puppies. Of course, in County Cork we had three brands of stout and this probably accounted for many fine dogs bred there. I bought my first pair of football boots with the proceeds of a well placed bet on a greyhound in the Cork track many years ago. One of the most outstanding dogs from my town was Kilcasken Kern. In the mid-1950s he won the St. Leger in Limerick, the Cloth of Gold in England and many other awards and trophies. He created much excitement for the local people, even those who were not interested in the greyhound industry. To think that a small town like Kanturk could breed and train a dog that could achieve such heights was a source of great pride.

Such feats by Irish greyhounds became the shop window for the greyhound export industry. It appears that we have the skills to breed good greyhounds, as is the case in the horse industry. The horse, too, has played a significant role in my area. There is an international showjumping arena in the area and if we continue along similar lines with greyhounds, we may eventually have an international greyhound arena.

England and America are our largest export markets. Some of our greyhounds have had some fine achievements in Florida. We are now talking of getting into the North American market. It appears that American buyers have recommended to the Irish greyhound industry that dogs destined for export to America should be trained in Ireland for American conditions. If we wish to expand our export industry we should not hesitate in conforming to their requests.

I regret that attendance at greyhound tracks has fallen because the development and expansion of these tracks depend on gate receipts. Like every other sport, this sport is open to competition. Over the years greyhound tracks and stands have become shabby, draughty, and that is unacceptable. To correct that we must invest money. It is envisaged that Shelbourne Park be established as the premium greyhound track and that Clonmel, Youghal and Harold's Cross be sold. If Clonmel is sold, the Limerick track is not too far away; Youghal is near the Cork track and if we sell Harold's Cross, we will still have Shelbourne Park. We will not be without tracks. The provision of modern amenities and comforts at our tracks will attract the support the industry deserves.

Coursing is older than time. In 300 BC hounds hunted hares in Egypt. The sport was brought to England by the Normans in 1067 and eventually reached our shores. Recently there has been much controversy about coursing. I agree that much of this was the result of carelessness and slippage. The provision of veterinary care for dogs before and after coursing was scant; sheep foodstuffs were provided for the hares; and hares were bought from previous meets. As a result the industry attracted the anti-coursing lobbyists and the industry had the task of proving that it could restore some sanity to coursing and restore the sport to the pinnacle it deserves.

The Minister quoted figures regarding the provision of a temporary muzzle for dogs which show that up to 21 November, in 1,029 courses where the muzzle was used, four hares were killed and eight were injured and had to be put down. This is a remarkable achievement. There was an experiment with a muzzle 20 years ago which ended in failure. Some dogs broke their necks as a result of wearing it. The muzzle has now been perfected and I hope that it will be used at all courses. I hope we see wild hares outwitting and outmanoeuvring well fed dogs instead of the unsightly image of two dogs tearing an animal apart. That was never meant to be part of coursing. My people were involved in coursing all their lives and they have a perpetual cup for coursing in Dromina, Charleville, County Cork. We always had a connection with and a love for the dog and hare.

I support the introduction of the Sunday meet. I hope this will generate the revenue which Bord na gCon requires to help it through its bad times. I congratulate the Minister on his handling of the situation and I wish him well in future.

I am surprised at Senator Norris's dislike for the well muzzled greyhound because he goes to the gym every night and I thought he was trying to improve his physique. In fact, he might be an admirer of the greyhound.

I listened with great interest to this debate because Members talked about the decline of the greyhound industry. Has it occurred to them that the decline in the interest of greyhound racing may be due to its association with coursing? This is important. I did not realise the decline was so bad until I looked at the Minister's figures. I have often gone to greyhound races and they are entertaining, apart from the fact that the races are too short because the greyhounds are too fast. However, someone who owns a greyhound or has a lot of money on it would have a different view. This cannot be said for coursing. Is it wise for people to have this close association between coursing and greyhound racing? Certain things are unacceptable to the public in the entertainment arena. People such as Senator Kiely, Senator Wall and Senator Cashin may be able to have their coursing meets, but not greyhound racing. Surely we are talking about racing and the export of greyhounds to countries where coursing is not their traditional sport. The closer the association between coursing and greyhound racing the more damage will be done to the greyhound racing industry and to the export of greyhounds.

It is unacceptable to most people that hares should be coursed as a sport and form of entertainment. It was suggested that anyone who had been to coursing meetings would be in favour of coursing. I was brought up on the Mahon Peninsula outside Cork and there were green fields around my home. Opposite our house was a large field where some of the major Munster meets were held. Members who have been to greyhound meets may have visited this place. It was a 20 acre field surrounded by walls. A gate allowed access to Walsh's field and another gate opened on to the road on our side. I remember the meets in this field and where the hares were kept in boxes. I remember the man on the horse who went with the greyhounds to the kill and I saw the hares being torn apart. I remember seeing hares for coursing lying dead in the boxes. Therefore, we should not say it is only people who have never seen such things who are against coursing. I saw these incidents of barbaric cruelty and there is no reason this should continue.

I understand muzzling has been introduced to deal with the kill and it may help. The number of kills has decreased dramatically and I am delighted to hear this. However, we are talking about the terrorisation of one animal by two others. I have nothing against greyhounds or those who bring the greyhounds to race meetings. Is this the type of violent sport we want to see in this country? If one cannot have greyhound racing without coursing, there will be less greyhound racing in future.

Some Members talked about closing greyhound tracks because they are too draughty and unpleasant. How many people go to point-to-point meetings and have a great time? There are no comforts at these meetings, but this does not stop people from going. People are not going to greyhound racing because of the association between it and coursing. It is anathema to people. Most greyhound tracks will need support, not only from people involved in the coursing industry, but from the public, although they will not be enthusiastic about giving it. I am not only talking about people involved in anti-blood sport campaigns, but about the public who must go to these meetings.

Those who say coursing should continue should remember they may be cutting their own throats. If they claim that coursing is necessary to encourage the greyhound industry, people will believe that the greyhound industry and greyhound racing are barbaric, which it is not. It is not that long since dog fighting and cock fighting took place. In fact, the gardaí still investigate illegal cock fights and dog fights and people are arrested. However, the public are not in favour of such events.

Violence in videos — and I am not trying to equate this with coursing — and violence of any sort, particularly involving terror and destruction of an animal, is deplorable. I listened to Members who said that everyone cheers when the hare gets away. Of course they do, but how often does the hare get away? Not too often. I remember that field on the Mahon Peninsula and some Members must have been there. Houses have been built there now, but anyone who says they followed coursing for years must have been at those meets in Blackrock, County Cork. I remember the dead hares in the boxes and the hares being killed.

It is important to realise that the coursing body seems to be self supervised. I agree with Senator Dardis and Senator Norris that the Minister may make regulations in this regard. However, that is not good enough. "May" and "shall" are different words with different meanings, although they are sometimes transposed in the English language. The Minister must agree that "shall" must be included in this section, otherwise there is no point introducing the Bill because there is no sense of commitment.

The issue of veterinary surgeons has already been referred to. They must be appointed by the Minister. The coursing clubs must not be allowed to appoint their own veterinary surgeons. I am not questioning the integrity of members of the veterinary profession, but a conflict of interests is bound to arise. It would be foolish to include those clauses if veterinary surgeons are not independently appointed by the Minister.

I want to refer to the marking of hares before they are released into the wild. We are not living in the dark ages, therefore why are we talking about putting dye on their coats? For example, is it not possible to put electronic pellets under their fur if they are released? This would be a definite way to mark them. It is pathetic to suggest dyeing hares or putting a mark on them which can easily be removed. If these animals are released, modern marking must be put on them to prevent them from being recoursed.

A supervisory role for wildlife officers could also be important at these meetings, but this has not been suggested in the Bill. I deplore the idea of holding meetings on Good Friday or Christmas Day. I understand why Sunday meetings are held, but I have not heard anyone supporting Good Friday and Christmas Day meetings. I strongly suggest to the Minister that he remove those two days from the Bill before it is enacted.

I want to address the last point made by Senator Henry about coursing on Good Friday and Christmas Day. I am not seeking to promote greyhound racing on Good Friday and Christmas Day. Indeed, a decision to hold greyhound racing on either of those days would be a commercial decision.

How could it be a commercial decision as they are the two most Christian days of the year?

Holding a race meeting on either of those days would be a commercial decision. I do not believe that there would be any validity to a decision of that kind. However, my position on this issue is one of equality of treatment among sports. There is no such restriction on horse racing or on other sports. Therefore, while I am not promoting the sport on Good Friday or Christmas Day, there should be equality of treatment between sports.

Senator Dardis questioned the need for two Bills. The comprehensive legislation which will be introduced in the new session is complex and, therefore, requires time to prepare. It was not possible to have such legislation enacted before the end of the year. However, there were three important issues which had to be dealt with urgently. First, if legislation is introduced to change the composition of the board it must be enacted before 31 December 1993, otherwise the three reserve places for members of the standing committee of the ICC would be maintained and a board would have to be appointed on that basis. Secondly, we have been waiting for the earliest opportunity to introduce legislation to remove the ban on Sunday racing. This was the opportunity to do so, which we grasped. Thirdly, the section giving power to the Minister to introduce regulations for the muzzling of greyhounds and for stricter veterinary controls were introduced on foot of undertakings given in the Dáil earlier this year when the issue was debated.

The Government and the Department are seeking to put in place the legislative framework for the industry to get back to where it was, as Senator Naughten said, and to prosper in the future. On a specific point which the Senator made, that the Department supported the case strongly, with the EU Commission, to have greyhound breeding recognised as supplementary farm enterprise for the purpose of EU grant schemes, we are aware of the difficulties breeders have in regard to planning permission for on-farm kennels qualifying for Structural Funds. We made representations to the Minister for the Environment on this matter and as far as we are aware, the problems have been resolved. Therefore, the scheme of aid under this heading is expected to continue in the next round of Structural Funds, covering the period 1994-97.

Senator Dardis made the point, which I believe has support in the House, with the possible exception of Senator Henry, that there is a need to upgrade facilities at greyhound tracks. The 1958 Act came into operation in 1959 in a period before we had RTÉ, or a national television service. In the intervening years, many competing entertainments have emerged. I have seen tracks in other countries and I conclude that we must provide facilities whereby people can have other aspects of entertainment when they go out for a night's racing, such as a meal, a drink or the possibility of viewing racing from an indoor heated area. We have those facilities at some tracks, but the problem is that there has been no money to make grant aid available to tracks to enable them to upgrade and refurbish their facilities. Such measures are vital.

I take issue with points made regarding nominations to the new board. Until 1958, when the Greyhound Industry Bill was enacted, the track side of the industry had been administered by the ICC. Therefore, in terms of continuity and expertise, it made sense to reserve three of the six ordinary places for members of the ICC in 1958. However, in the interim, the board has been in charge of the industry and approximately 20 groups have a valid case in terms of being represented on the board. Seven is the requisite size as the industry needs a board that can be decisive and effective.

In addition to knowledge of the industry, the board must have expertise, legal, commercial or whatever, to ensure that the industry is, in the latter part of the 20th century, able to develop to the level of other industries to enable it to compete. Many factors compete against the industry, for example, in the USA, State lotteries have pulled away patrons from greyhound racing. I cannot say that our national lottery has stopped patrons going to greyhound racing, that is something I can only guess at. However, it is a measure of the competition which the industry faces.

When I took up office, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Walsh, had set up his task force in July 1992 to examine the industry. One of the areas under review was coursing. I consulted widely, listened to arguments and attended a small number of coursing meetings. Personally I found the kill unacceptable. I did not consider either extreme, on one side total abolition and on the other the status quo, as a solution. I believe that we have presented a sensible, middle ground solution which most people consider reasonable. Extreme solutions do not solve problems. Whereas there are strongly held views, which I respect, there are many views which I have sought to accommodate.

Finally, a couple of Senators made comparisons with cock fighting, dog fighting and so on. The object of coursing is not to maim, injure or kill. It is a contest between two greyhounds chasing a hare. Unfortunately over the years hares have been killed and maimed. When the Wildlife Bill, 1993, was discussed earlier this year I gave a commitment to the Dáil to introduce measures to eliminate the kill. That is my commitment and that is what I will continue to pursue.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

It is proposed to take Committee Stage now.

Acting Chairman

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Top
Share