Today's Order of Business is Item 1, Second Stage of the Criminal Justice (No. 3) Bill, 1993. I suggest 20 minutes per spokesperson and 15 minutes thereafter. Item 1 will be taken until 6 p.m. We will take Item 32 from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. It is then intended to add an Item to the Order Paper — the Minister for Health will come to the House at 8.10 p.m. for statements on the issue of hepatitis C. He will make a statement and a spokesperson from each party will make a five minute statement. We will return to Item 1 at approximately 8.40 p.m. until 10 p.m. The Adjournment will take place after the conclusion of business.
Order of Business.
The issue of hepatitis is very serious and the time proposed by the Leader is totally inadequate. This matter affects over 100,000 women and the manner in which it has been dealt with to date has caused a great deal of concern among those who have received Rhesus negative transfusions.
The Senator is making a speech.
Forty minutes is totally inadequate. I got this injection on three occasions and I consider the manner in which it has been handled appalling and insensitive. There is a real need for clarification to allay the fears of many women and this cannot be done in 40 minutes; we require at least a two hour debate.
I ask the Leader to grant time today or tomorrow to discuss Item 33 in my name and that of Senator Henry. It refers to the situation in East Timor, a matter in which many Members on all sides of the House have shown an interest. The Leader will recall that the then Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Andrews, took a firm line with the Indonesians. Genocide is continuing in East Timor as part of a criminal conspiracy between the British, the Americans and the Australians. As long as nothing is done, people will continue to be killed. Many of us will have witnessed with great sorrow the programme shown on ITV last night which depicted this situation. It is the worst crime that has been committed since the Second World War and this House should make its voice felt on the issue.
With regard to the subject raised by Senator Taylor-Quinn, I would also welcome an opportunity to discuss this serious matter concerning the health of Irish women. However, I would approach it from a different point of view. I congratulate the Government and the Minister for Health for the clear, forward, direct and honest way the matter was dealt with this morning. It is precisely the way these issues should be addressed — immediately, quickly and efficiently. I am glad to have the opportunity, from these benches, to put that on the record.
I welcome the Leader's recommendation that we consider the hepatitis C issue this evening and that the Minister for Health is coming to the Chamber. However, the length of time allocated to individual speakers is totally inadequate given the gravity of this matter and the fact that many Members may want to contribute. While the Leader's proposal is welcome, he does need to review the methodology for the debate.
I also support Senator Norris's call to consider providing time to debate Item 33. Anyone who had any doubts about the abuse of human rights and the genocide taking place in East Timor would not have them after watching John Pilger's programme on ITV last night. While the West intervened in the case of Kuwait, it has stood by in this similar case while people were murdered. I too would welcome a debate on this matter.
I also ask the Leader to make time available to debate agriculture within the coming weeks. This matter is regularly dealt with in this House. Over the past few days a group of small farmers from the west have been protesting outside the gates of Leinster House in inclement weather. They obviously feel deeply about the RSI matter. There is an onus on the Government to make a definitive statement on this matter in the near future. Pig producers are also experiencing problems and many farmers entitled to money owed to them by the Government have not yet been paid. For those reasons, I suggest that time be made available to debate agriculture in the near future.
I hope Item 7 —the Programme for Competitiveness and Work— can be discussed in the near future and I ask the Leader to make time available for it.
I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate on the retail price of food. Ireland has an opportunity to be recognised as a food producer who can compete successfully in Europe. It will be a bad day for the agricultural sector and for those in food production if this market is not recognised. I am prompted to raise this matter because at present there is heated discussion taking place as to whether 40 per cent is enough——
You are making a speech.
I ask the Leader of the House to arrange a debate on the matter. I do not intend to make a speech, but I hope later to have the opportunity to contribute on this important issue. If multiple stores are making a 40 per cent profit on a carton of milk, it is time this House and others accept that this is an unfair and unjust profit. I am addressing my remarks to the Leader of the House. It is a bad day when a head of a chain of multiple stores says he is embarrassed by the amount of profit he is forced to take.
You are going a little too far, Senator. I am sure the Leader will take the request for a debate on board.
I intend to keep within the rules of the House but I hope the Leader will arrange this debate at an early date because it is important.
I support the call for a longer debate on the problems regarding the anti-D factor. It is important to point out that this problem was discovered by Dr. Joan Power in the course of ordinary qualitative surveys and through vigilance and intelligence. It is extremely important that the Minister be made aware of our concern that all areas in the health field have the necessary resources to ensure vigilance regarding the treatment patients are getting and that we have intelligent and good workers in all fields.
In view of the increasing pressure on parents to raise their children in an ever changing environment and the recent advertisements on billboards, I ask the Leader to seriously consider providing time for a debate on parental responsibility and accountability and other elements of child rearing. The recent advertising campaign is an assault on what is left in this society to raise children properly. This is an important issue and one that is causing much upset for parents and families and it should be immediately, brought to the public's attention.
The motion on the Order Paper, sponsored by Senators Henry and Norris, which deals with East Timor is very important. However, we also asked for a debate on former Yugoslavia but to date we have not had one. It is an important issue which should be debated immediately.
I ask the Leader to arrange for the Minister for the Environment to come here at an early date to discuss the discretionary block grants he announced last Friday. Members will be aware that it was announced in the budget that a sum of £15 million would be set aside by the Minister for Finance from the proceeds of the tax amnesty to improve the condition of the roads. It seems the Minister has diverted that money to some other purpose because Monaghan County Council received——
You are making a speech.
When I finish my point you will see why. Last Friday Monaghan County Council received a grant which was £331,000 less than it received last year.
It is a matter which is suitable for the Adjournment.
This is important because it underpins Government strategy as it applies to tourism development, rural development and other matters.
You are making a speech.
We should have a full and proper debate on the matter. Arising out of this may I make a complaint to the House?
You have gone far enough. You have made your point and asked the Leader for a debate. I am sure he will take that on board.
The complaint I want to make——
There is no point making a complaint to the House about something which happened elsewhere.
It arises out of something I said earlier.
I am sorry. You have gone far enough and I have given you a considerable amount of latitude.
The good names of certain people were taken at a meeting in Monaghan on Monday night by Members of this House——
There is no point in continuing, Senator Cotter.
——and I believe I should be able to speak about it.
There is no point continuing along those lines. I have given you latitude and I have been fair. You could use the Adjournment or another debate.
I should be able to ask the Member in question for an apology. On Monday night at a meeting in Corduff, the executive of Monaghan County Council was blamed by a Member of this House for the condition of the roads in Monaghan. I reject outright the allegations made that night where the good name of the executive of Monaghan County Council was taken. I ask the Member in question to apologise.
I ask you, Senator Cotter, to be fair. You are continually ignoring the Chair. Please resume your seat.
I wish to express my concern about the length of time which has been devoted to discussion on the hepatitis-C virus scare. Many people are alarmed and this House should take the opportunity to allay those fears, outline the position and allow everybody to express their views on the matter. I am proposing an amendment to the Order of Business:
That there be a full two hour debate on the issue.
This would allow as many as possible to express their views.
I, too, support the call for extended time for the discussion on hepatitis-C. I am pleased the Minister is coming to address this House but I hope it will be possible for him to answer questions. There is still a lot of confusion in regard to this issue. Many women are concerned to know whether maternity hospitals have records going back as far as 1977. GPs have been informed by Pelican House that they are to test women who were so treated from 1977 to 1991. I want the Leader to ask the Minister to clarify those matters this evening. I understand from what the Minister said in the other House yesterday that the product being administered to women was changed last Friday, so there seems to have been a scare up to last Friday.
I welcome the fact that it has been possible to make time available to discuss the hepatitis C issue this evening. I understand that as it is an urgent debate it may not be possible to have extended time this evening. Perhaps we could have more time at a later date to discuss the various issues, including that raised by Senator Henry. I take issue with what Senator Taylor-Quinn said about the Minister's response. The Minister has done everything possible. He has responded efficiently and very quickly, giving full public information which is what was needed.
A number of centres have been set up around the country for testing, and testing can be carried out by all GPs. I do not think there is anything the Minister could have done that he has not done at this stage. If it is possible to have further time at a later date I would support that proposal.
I support Senator Neville's proposal for a two hour debate and I support Senator Dardis's call for a debate on agriculture. The United Farmers Association are outside the gates today; I support them in their call for better farm incomes in the west. I wish to raise another matter in relation to a debate on local authorities called for last week by Senator Manning. I read a statement in last Saturday's Irish Independent made by the Minister of State, Deputy Burton, and I was appalled and shocked by what she said about local authorities and local authority personnel. She said that the current practices of some local authorities are helping to escalate——
Senator Burke, statements like that are not appropriate to the Order of Business. I like to give a little bit of latitude but you go too far.
The Leader of the House——
Is there a question for the Leader of the House?
Yes. Will the Leader ask the Minister to make a statement to the House about what she said at a seminar in Cork? She said it was alarming that any person should feel under less pressure——
I have——
——when dealing with a moneylender than with the local authority.
I have indicated you shall not quote from papers on the Order of Business. Have you a question for the Leader of the House?
It is a sad reflection on local authorities——
Are you asking for a debate? Would you word your request suitably?
I asked for a debate at the outset, it was called for last week and I call again for that debate.
I ask the Leader of the House to initiate a debate with the appropriate Minister about the problems confronted by many groups throughout the country where architects and purchasing officers are involved in the purchase of materials and goods for public services. It is virtually impossible for Irish firms to have their goods purchased by various bodies. This is not the managers' fault; it is the fault of the architects who seem to have a penchant for buying imports. There is a need for an urgent debate on this matter because it is being raised in every forum in this country at present. It might give us a chance to tell these people what import substitution and job creation is about because they do not seem to care. I ask that the appropriate Minister could be asked to come here to develop this.
You have made your point, Senator Lanigan. Thank you.
I also support the request for a debate on East Timor, but I would like to have it extended because if we debate East Timor, the time allotted might not be adequate to discuss the problems associated with the denial of human and civil rights in what was formerly the USSR, Afghanistan, in former Yugoslavia and East Timor. We should have an early debate on these subjects.
I second the proposal by Senator Neville for a two hour debate on the hepatitis issue. Perhaps if the movers of the Private Members' Motion deferred their debate, the hepatitis debate could take place from 6 p.m.
I support the call for a debate on East Timor. Anyone who saw the television programme last night must be convinced that genocide is perpetrated by the Indonesians and by the complicity of the western nations, especially the Australians, in this matter. Anyone who wants to read about this situation should go to the Library and get one of the books supplied by the Dutch Ambassador. It is an important debate and, like Senator Lanigan, I ask the Leader to give it as much time as possible. We cannot ignore genocide in any part of the world.
I agree with Senator Burke that an urgent discussion on local authorities should take place because at a recent conference I attended the Minister of State at the Department of Social Welfare, Deputy Burton, gave the impression that draconian measures were being implemented by local authorities. As a local authority member I was annoyed. There should be an urgent discussion on this matter because I believe the opposite is happening.
I did not intend to speak on the Order of Business, but the question was raised as to whether Private Members' time should be made available.
I support Senator Norris's view that the Minister has handled this matter as well as possible and I congratulate the Leader of the House for making time available for a discussion. I would be unhappy if this matter was pushed to a vote this evening because there is consensus on both sides. The Private Members' motion ordered for today is early retirement for teachers. This is a matter close to my heart. However, in the interests of making more time available, I am prepared to defer this motion provided it does not mean the loss of Private Members' time at a later date. In other words, I am prepared to accommodate the House if we take two Private Members' motions another week. I do not want a message to go out from the House that we are not prepared to give time to the hepatitis issue.
I also want to mention the Programme for Competitiveness and Work which has been raised on a number of occasions by both sides of the House. Over the next three weeks approximately 0.5 million trade unionists will vote on this programme and it would be appropriate to initiate the debate in this House. It should be debated next week because after that it will lose its value. Time should also be made available for a debate on East Timor.
I support the motion for a debate on the hepatitis C issue; perhaps extra time should be made available. I also support the call for a debate on East Timor. There is an urgent need for this debate and following it the Committee on Procedure and Privileges or the Government side of this House should bring this issue to the attention of the Government. We tend to debate issues and then forget about them, and that is not good enough. We should seriously consider this matter and ask the Government to take a stand on it.
I would be disappointed if a vote was called on the statements by the Minister for Health, Deputy Howlin. This morning we tried to ensure that the Minister would come to the House today and he had to make various changes to enable him to be here at 8.10 p.m. I will arrange, through our Whip, to see if more time can be made available for this debate. I do not believe that this is an issue on which there should be political point scoring. All of us are at one on this most serious matter. It is for that very reason that we have added it to the Order of Business today on top of a heavy legislative programme. I would not be keen on the idea of deferring Private Members' time for such an issue because specific issues could be dealt with in that way every week. I am giving an undertaking to those who proposed the amendment to get in touch with the Whips before 6 o'clock tonight. I know, however, the Minister has already broken one long standing appointment to be here this evening. It may well be that we can provide more time for the debate. We will certainly try to achieve that between now and 5.30 p.m. Everyone in the House will be made aware of what will be decided by a Whips' statement.
We will take on board Item 33 dealing with East Timor as soon as possible. Item 7 concerning the Programme for Competitiveness and Work will possibly be dealt with next week but certainly within the next two weeks. The request for a debate on retail prices has been noted. I mentioned last week that we will have a debate on local authority matters as soon as possible. There is legislation coming to the House dealing with the elections in June which may give us an opportunity to discuss local authorities in general.
Senator Neville has moved an amendment to the Order of Business. Is it being pressed?
In view of the Leader's commitment to extend the debate and allow as many as possible to participate — and I have every confidence he will provide more time — I withdraw the amendment.
I appreciate that.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Order of Business agreed to.