Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 29 Mar 1994

Vol. 139 No. 17

Developing the West Together Report: Statements (Resumed).

Mr. D. Kiely

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and I hope that she will take note of what is said.

I congratulate the people involved with this initiative, particularly the bishops. However, I was extremely disappointed that the other bishops in Munster were not included, particularly the bishops of Clare, Limerick, Kerry and Cork. The report says "developing the west together" but we need to define where the west starts and finishes. I was told at school that the western seaboard extended from Donegal to west Cork. I wonder if the curriculum has changed over the last few years and if the west is now from Galway to Donegal. All the west needs to be saved.

I will speak specifically about my own county. Over 10,000 people are unemployed in County Kerry and we have mass emigration and migration. There are no prospects of jobs in that county unless something real is done about its development. There are many avenues open to us. The Programme for Government refers to the potential of the Shannon Estuary which has proved to be the best seaport in western Europe. However, it is crying out for development.

The Government owns large stretches of land on all sides of the river, from the Clare side, all along Limerick and into north Kerry, where it owns over 600 acres. This land has been earmarked for heavy industry for the past 20 years but nothing has happened. We are crying out for Government aid to develop the infrastructure there which we are told will cost in the region of £25 million to £30 million.

I am a member of the Limerick Harbour Commissioners and over the last six or seven years we have lost at least five or six major industries on the Shannon Estuary because we did not have the necessary infrastructure. A task force has been set up by the Department of the Taoiseach to see what can be done about the Shannon Estuary. I hope that report will be made public in the next week or so and that there will be positive results in it for the people of Kerry and those living along the Shannon Estuary.

Kerry is a tourist county and our season, particularly in the northern part, seems to be getting shorter all the time because we depend on seaside resorts. It is completely different to the type of tourism in south Kerry which centres more around scenery. We are also largely dependent on fishing and the weather conditions over the past five or six months meant that many fishermen were unable to put their boats out to sea. There are problems there and there is great room for improvements.

Killarney has been included this year in the urban renewal scheme, a move I welcome. However, the seaside resorts along the west coast are being depleted because the season has been reduced to five or six weeks; a couple of bad weekends can mean the end of the season. These people are expected to pay rates, high insurance and so on and are trying to survive on a very short season. The urban renewal scheme has done an enormous amount for towns and villages and brought life back into the inner city. However, the seaside resorts are crying out for assistance, such as lower rates, tax incentives for a specific period, etc., upgrade the areas because the local business people cannot afford to do this.

The Leader programme has been successful and I am glad it has been extended. It will provide new opportunities to get more funding for rural areas. I hate to keep returning to the road problem but industrialists say that we, in the west, are badly located and that if we were on the eastern side of the country we would have easier access to our markets. However, everything cannot be located in the east. One of these days this country will tip sideways to the east and there will be nobody left in the west.

When I refer to the west I mean the area from Donegal to Cork. I am speaking specifically about our infrastructure: our road network and trains. The train to Kerry stops in Tralee. A study was carried out some years ago and if those who carried out that study had their way, the rail service would run from Limerick city to Dublin and from Mallow to Dublin. They would have excluded our county completely had we not fought very strongly to save the only rail link coming into Kerry.

An airport is being built in Kerry. My local authority and tourism organisations in the county have provided funds for the marketing of the airport and the county. How can one attract people to a county if there is no infrastructure because the rail service, the road network and other services have been cut off? The standard of the roads in Kerry is not comparable to the roads in Galway, Mayo and Donegal. I compliment the people in those counties for what they have achieved over the years and the money they got from the Structural Funds and the Government. I have to congratulate them because the roads in those counties are far superior to the roads in Kerry.

We have a major problem and I call on the Government to act, particularly as this is included in the Programme for Government. There is now a task force in place to develop the Shannon Estuary. I speak particularly of the land bank in the Tarbert/Ballylongford area, much of which is in State ownership. About 27 or 28 years ago, the first 100 acres were purchased by the Government for an oil refinery. In 1980 the Government bought another 400 or 500 acres adjacent to that. This is the deepest port in western Europe. The largest ship in the world can be turned on the Shannon Estuary. It can be brought in at the mouth of the Shannon and turned at Ardmore Point which is on the Tarbert/Ballylongford site. The largest tanker in the world can be docked there at low water. It would be most unfortunate if the infrastructure is not provided for the best natural resource anyone could want. If this was in any other country, that Government would be crying out to develop it.

The Taoiseach was at a seminar in Killarney a few years ago where he said that if the Shannon Estuary was developed properly, it could be another Rotterdam. If the Tánaiste, who lives in the same constituency as myself, agrees with him, I ask the Government to make funds available to develop that section of the west.

The area needs industry. There has been no major industry in Kerry for the past 15 or 20 years, except for the ESB power station in Tarbert which employs about 320 people. If that industry was taken from north Kerry the consequences would be terrible as so many families depend on it. There is talk of privatisation and having each ESB plant stand on its own. I worry about the future because that station is a lifeline for us.

With regard to the report, I compliment the bishops of Connacht and Donegal for spearheading this move and highlighting the situation, but it is unfortunate that the other part of the west was excluded. A task force is now in place and the report is expected within a month, according to documentation I got from the Department of the Taoiseach. I ask that the rest of the west be included. I consider Clare, Limerick, Kerry and west Cork to be part of the west; one cannot go much further west than the Dingle peninsula in Kerry.

Jobs are needed in the area. There are over 10,000 people unemployed in my county. If there is any crusade for survival, it should be for all. I am in favour of the document but I am critical of the definition of where the west starts and finishes. It is unfortunate that my county in particular was not included. There are great opportunities in the west but the Government will have to put the infrastructure in place because no industrialist in his right senses would go to the west unless there was a proper infrastructure. With the proper infrastructure, the west would be as competitive as any part of the east.

In the past, all the money seems to have been ploughed into the east. There are main roads along the east to Rosslare. I was chairman of the General Council of County Councils from 1985 to 1987. I attended a seminar given by this country's engineers who stated that 95 per cent of all Government funding should be spent in the east because it has more traffic than the west. If that is the thinking, how can we develop the west? We must get proper roads; if our roads were brought up to the same standard as those in the east, it would then be fair to divide the money according to traffic levels.

While in principle I welcome any crusade to save the west, I would be highly critical of the exclusion of County Kerry and the other western counties. It might not yet be too late. We may get the bishops of Clare, Limerick, Kerry and Cork together and save the real west. We may start another crusade which, as is the trend in the film industry, we could call Crusade Two.

Professor Lee

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. I welcome the report because a fundamental review of western development policy is needed at this stage. It is true that, as Colm McCarthy argued in the Sunday Independent and again on Marion Finucane's radio programme, the west's problems in some respects mirror national problems. Recorded unemployment levels are not obtrusively higher in the west than they are elsewhere, and they will have to be dealt with, at least partly, through national as well as regional policy. The problems of the west go much deeper than unemployment and cannot be treated simply and solely within that context.

The west faces a structural problem of long term depopulation and a constantly declining proportion of total national population. Since 1961 Connacht's population, as a proportion of national population, has fallen by about 20 per cent; at times this population has been stable in absolute terms but as a proportion of national population it has fallen about 20 per cent. I am open to correction but I think that is the biggest fall in any area of western Europe relative to the national territory. There may be another area where the same occurs but I doubt it. We have a problem that is unique in its scale by European Union standards. There are other criteria that ought to be taken into account, but that is the fundamental criterion.

The west requires both special diagnosis and special prescription and, although there have been a number of reports, this one serves a timely purpose in drawing together a number of threads of thinking and focusing attention on what is a genuine problem. For the population to continue to fall in an already very sparsely populated area would bring the west, fairly soon, to a threshold level of social viability. When one takes that into account with the implications for dependency in population and of the lower household income, which by all the estimates I have seen runs at 10 per cent to 20 per cent below the national average and probably 30 per cent or perhaps a little more below the average for the eastern half of the country, it is not possible to deny the existence of what the report calls a potential disaster facing the west as a social unit.

There are at least four responses to the identification of the problems of the west. The first, the strictly economistic one, is that the decline of the west is the result of natural market forces and that as the market is the god at whose shrine we should all worship, nothing can or should be done about it. I reject that viewpoint completely but I suspect it is more widely held than it is expressed in public, particularly among a certain type of neo-classical economist.

The second, which I suspect has been Government policy for the best part of 20 years, although I am open to correction on this and no doubt will be corrected, has been to express grave concern at the plight of the west and then to do virtually nothing systematic about it. The third is to express concern but claim that it is simply a function of national development and, therefore, that nothing special should be done about it, although of course the west should be included if something is done at national level about national problems. Again I reject that.

I do not deny that Dublin, Cork and Limerick face colossal social problems, but they are not problems arising from depopulation in sparsely populated areas. They are social problems but they require a different diagnosis and prescription from those confronting the west. The west should not be simply swept aside on the grounds that we have more pressing — if they are more pressing — urban problems.

The fourth response is to argue that there is indeed a special problem here, that it requires special treatment, that if it is not treated rapidly and fundamentally it may well spiral downwards out of our control and that it will be too late in another generation to do anything significant to reverse the trends. That approach is adopted in this report and although one can disagree with particular emphases or recommendations, it has served a valuable purpose. The bishops deserve thanks and recognition for their public spiritedness in sponsoring this initiative as well as local initiatives to which they have given impetus in the west.

I would be more confident of the outcome, however, if the Government had not immediately rejected the proposal of a Minister for the west. That rejection may be justifiable. It is evident that our Departments are predominantly organised on a sectoral basis and that it is very difficult to marry sectoral and area thinking. I suspect that even at national level, area thinking emerges as a result of political mediation of collisions between sectoral departmental interests and that something called the national interest is very difficult to define in an abstract way.

Nevertheless I would like to have seen the Government advance a more compelling argument than that of administrative convenience which was the one put forward in the Minister's opening speech because it is difficult to relate how Government responds to this report with what is being done at local level. The western development board which the report recommends may fall because it was to report to a Minister with responsibility for the west. A question arises as to how far the specific recommendations relating to that board can be salvaged given that the ministerial structure proposed will not now be implemented.

A sense of frustration runs through the report which all of us who live not only outside Dublin, because the same frustration applies to most areas of Dublin, but outside the charmed square mile of Merrion Square feel about what we perceive as our relative powerlessness compared with central Government. That may be unfair in some respects but there is a feeling of powerlessness throughout most of this country. It starts a mile from central Government itself but it is particularly acute in the west and it results in a curious schizophrenia on both sides.

Central Government in principle reproaches citizens for demanding goodies from central Government but by insisting on controlling virtually every vestige of public activity fosters a dependency mentality and reinforces the dependency mentality we inherited from our historical experience. If the west is to develop — and this is a fundamental message coming from this report — then the potential for local self help for empowerment must somehow be released.

None of us should under-rate the ambitiousness, perhaps the wild ambitiousness, of the proposal. This report is both an organisational revolution in terms of relations between Government agencies and local initiative and a psychological revolution at both levels. The psychological revolution will be required to enable the bureaucracy to let go of, or at least not keep as tight a grip as hitherto, on all activity throughout the country, and at local level to not constantly go to central Government for what amount to hand-outs, however well intentioned the purpose behind those hand-outs or their investment might be. That will be a long term process if it happens at all.

There are two stages involved in saving the west. One is a relatively short term one, where specific short term investments are needed, not least in the context of structural plans. The other is much longer term. We are talking about a decline that has persisted at least a century. It could well take a half a century to reverse fully that decline to make the west self-sustaining in terms of its growth. That psychological revolution which the report is recommending involves a hitherto unprecedented degree of participation at local level. That participation will only come about if the frustration with and lack of trust of Government which is so pervasive throughout most of this country is countered effectively.

There has to be a development of local trust in both the good intentions and the operational capacity of Government and if that does not happen, then we can exhort ourselves as much as we like, and we may all agree with the exhortations, but we will have a remission at best for the west and after that remission will come further frustration and despair. Some of that has been happening in the last two years.

Between roughly 1970 and the mid-1980s the west stabilised and arrested its decline. Since the mid-1980s that decline has resumed and some of the bishops' response is a resumption of a feeling of despair after a period when hope seemed to flicker for a while. That is why, although objectively one can quote figures to show that things are not as bad as the atmosphere suggests, psychologically they most certainly are. If things are bad psychologically they will be materially as well. That has implications, for instance, when talking about the service sector as the major area of economic development for the west, tourism, marine development and forestry have been mentioned in the report and in this House.

The higher education system in the west has to be, to some extent, focused on providing the right type of education and training. I say education as well as training because nowadays we tend to confuse training and education. Education has to be focused much more on longer term development than is the case at present. If we are to have an integrated strategy — both words have been hideously devalued by the looseness with which they are used in public discourse nowadays — then the representatives of the various sectors including the education sector, have to be included. We now have better trained people — whether they are better educated is an open question — than ever and by virtue of their years in school they will become frustrated more quickly. There will be a flood of such people out of the west if their hopes are frustrated. We are training or educating for a potentially higher rate of emigration by not providing satisfactory employment for people locally and not giving them the opportunity to be self starters. That applies to females as much as to males. One of the striking facts in the report is the higher rate of female emigration than of male emigration from the west during the last decade. That has implications for the stability of the social structure and for the reproduction — in every sense — of the social unit of the west. The implications are farreaching and serious and they could happen quickly if the emigration is not stalled at this stage.

I agree with Senator Kiely about the artificial borders attributed to the west in the report. A high level task force — have we ever appointed a low level task force? — has been established. I am sceptical about the functions of high level task forces. They tend to serve at least part of the function that commissions served, which is to blunt the eagerness and indignation and report in measured tones which ruffle no feathers in Dublin. I sympathise with the task force if it is attempting to implement the report's recommendations within the borders of the west.

The west is defined — and I agree with the previous speaker — by the problem. The problem which is identified in Connacht and Donegal is present in Clare, Kerry and west Cork and that problem is structural population decline. That long term problem identifies the west and marks it out from the rest of Ireland whose problems do not include structural population decline as yet. It is wholly artificial to try to separate Connacht and Donegal from those other areas. The diagnosis is artificial and the prescriptions are artificial. If one asked what the prescriptions for Clare, Kerry and west Cork would be, they would be identical to those for Connacht and Donegal. The solutions are the same. A task force which concentrates on one part of the area will have to do so at the expense of the other part. It will set up potential geographic rivalries between the west as defined in the report and the west as it ought to be defined. That will inhibit thinking about the solution.

According to the report, Shannon and Knock should develop in parallel. What does parallel mean if one is to be developed by one body and the other is to be developed by another body? There is no way one can have coherent planning for the development of Shannon and Knock if they are in two different sectors. Ironically, the example of the problems of milk farmers quoted in the report is from a study of west Clare. How can one have a fisheries policy which stops on the north side of Galway bay? I have some sympathy for the task force in trying to identify coherent units of policy making. I urge its members to abandon the borders in the report and to apply their thinking along the west coast and however far inland the population problem extends.

In the plethora of reports with which we are confronted there are a few which point to historic opportunities and which are not simply short term solutions. This is one of those reports. It does not matter how many specific recommendations one disagrees with. The report identifies a historic problem and if that problem is not properly confronted and if there is an inadequate response, it will be condemned in history as one of the lost opportunities of this generation.

Mr. Mooney

This is a timely debate. I am pleased that it will be continued in order to allow as many Members as possible to contribute.

This report, A Crusade for Survival had its genesis in the mid-1980s when the traditional decline in the population of the west was exacerbated by a sudden and significant increase in youth emigration; local communities were suddenly faced with a depopulation of crisis proportions. GAA clubs were the first to indicate that something radical had to be done. Parishes which heretofore had little difficulty in fielding several under-age teams were obliged to include youngsters in senior teams and, in some cases, withdraw from competitions. Parishes which had enjoyed relative stability from the early 1970s discovered that attendances at religious services were drastically reduced. Obviously, something had to be done.

The coming together of local community interests and the western bishops culminated in a series of public seminars across the province and the publication of this report. While I welcome many of the recommendations, I have difficulty with reports which perpetually highlight the problems facing the western communities and communities of a similar nature nationwide, particularly rural areas identified by the previous two speakers which have had similar declines in population. The time has long passed when problems in the west should continually be highlighted. Solutions are needed.

Although A Crusade for Survival offers a number of viable solutions, some of them are controversial, particularly in regard to County Leitrim. The study recommends the extensive development of commercial forestry in the west. It admits that account should be taken of the reservations of many people in the region and of the environmental and social effects of forestry. However, I do not believe it goes far enough in that regard.

Leitrim's population decline has been advanced by unplanned forestry developments in parts of the county where it would be better to permit the extension of existing small farm holdings to stabilise the already fragmented family farm. In parts of my county and throughout the west a generation of young farmers, now approaching their mid-forties, have holdings which are hemmed in by the increasing disposal of adjoining land to pension funds and life assurance companies which see the long term potential for forestry as being in the interest of their investors.

Everybody has a constitutional right to dispose of their property as they see fit. However, within the constitutional constraints, there is an onus on the Government to introduce regulations in this area. The regulations should ensure that a monitoring authority be called in to adjudicate whether the land should be sold for afforestation to an anonymous pension fund or life assurance company or to an adjoining farm owner who wishes to expand his property and keep his family in farming. Unplanned forestry also causes an environmental impact. It is sad that the EU directive establishes such a high volume level that most of the forestry plantations in this country are below what is required to seek planning permission. Local authorities, which would usually be involved in the planning process, therefore cannot intervene.

I invite anybody, especially Ministers, to travel the roads of my county. The forestry lorries have caused such severe deterioration to the road network that it will require millions of pounds to repair it. The difficulty facing many western farmers is that they cannot compete financially with the price offered by major companies. The Government, which has already fought the battle for farm income support structures at European level, should ensure that where financial hardship prevents somebody from acquiring such land the Government will provide such support.

The population of County Leitrim has shown the largest single decrease. This flight from the land has been involuntary. Anybody who lives in County Leitrim has no wish to leave it, as visitors to the county will testify. It is a county of great natural beauty. Tourism is a major contributor to the local economy. However, that industry is seasonal and largely part time.

The study calls for a partnership between Government and people in a new participative approach in which the people of the west take greater responsibility for their own destiny. I have no difficulty with that aspiration. I would go further. The basic structure of Government at local and regional level — the power base — must be addressed. In this respect the concept of the Leader project is a welcome innovation, although I have some criticism of the manner in which it has operated. While the idea has been a good one and the concept of communities getting involved from the bottom up seems to work well on paper, as a member of a local authority who has gone forward for election to represent my community I find that in practice the Leader and similar European concepts bypass locally elected representatives. It is not enough to say that one should get involved in local voluntary organisations and by that route into Leader programmes or that one should go through local authority, enterprise or voluntary organisations to be elected onto county enterprise boards. It is long past the time that local authority structures and their powers and effectiveness were strengthened rather than weakened. However, the present practice now seems to be the trend and it is a dangerous one, which is inimical to the continuance of democratic structures in this country.

It is no longer enough only to pump money into the west. What is needed is a decentralisation of power, from what, a Chathaoirligh, is the most centralised Government in western Europe, back to the people at local level. In this context I see the local authority structures and the recently introduced regional authority structures as the ideal vehicle for the transfer of this power. We pride ourselves on being a model democracy. While electorally we are, one must face the fact that the real power rests with an Executive — the Government of 15 people — and the permanent Civil Service, who like bureaucracies everywhere have no wish to loosen the bonds of power when achieved. It requires political will, but I am confident this Government has shown in its short time in office that it has that will. This is evident by a long overdue reform of local government and continuing reform in that area. Indeed, I eagerly anticipate the soon to be introduced Local Authority Reform Bill.

Our local authorities, in association with the many fine voluntary organisations that have mushroomed across the west and in rural areas in general, should be encouraged to form a new partnership. A developmental approach should be fostered in which the local community in association with rather than in parallel or in some cases to the exclusion of its locally elected representatives — the local authority structure which has served this country well for almost 100 years — should be given the financial support and the legislative backup necessary, first, to stabilise the region and, second, to aggressively market it as a sound location for business, enterprise and tourism.

I also wish to reiterate a matter I have raised many times in the Seanad since I was elected. It is long past time that this Government initiated a rural renewal scheme. Why should there be a policy of regeneration, with all the attendant tax privileges, for our inner cities exclusively? Rural areas such as County Leitrim, which are at the edge of the abyss in terms of viability, should also enjoy similar tax breaks to encourage more people to locate there for both industrial and tourist projects.

I plead with the Government, and especially the Department of Finance, to set up a pilot scheme along these lines. It could select County Leitrim as the location for that pilot scheme. It perhaps has suffered more than most, not only in the west but nationally. It was the only county to show a decline in population in census results in the 1970s and early 1980s when other counties were showing an increase. It would seem to be an ideal county for such a pilot scheme. In so doing the Government should also provide the necessary financial structures and support to help that concept. I do not wish to suggest that this would be a panacea for our problems, but at least it would give us that extra edge in attracting suitable industry and tourist related projects to the county and the region.

I also encourage the Government to identify growth centres in the west, such as Sligo, Longford, Carrick-on-Shannon, Castlebar, Cavan and other towns of similar status and size. These growth centres should receive similar tax breaks to those enjoyed in the urban renewal legislation. Extending that scheme, as in Scotland, to create enterprise areas in which business, private development and Government would be encouraged to fund new industries on the promise of large tax breaks should also be considered.

Those who viewed a recent "Tuesday File" programme on RTE did so with mounting frustration and not a little anger. Intelligent and articulate community leaders expounded a philosophy that was significant for its simplicity. The message was a powerful one. Give us the means to harness our natural attributes. A root and branch structural reform is essential if the west is to survive as a viable unit into the next century and beyond. The evidence is there for all to see. Where local communities have controlled their own destinies, albeit in a limited form, they have shown success. They have a proven track record. One has only to witness the success of a small village like Keadue in County Roscommon in the Tidy Towns competition. However, what is the point of living in Ireland's tidiest town if one does not have a job to go to? It is not the fault of the people of Keadue if there are no jobs, but of the system. This report argues passionately for a radical change in that system.

The report is a challenge to our democratic system, which is defined as a system of the people, by the people and for the people. Have successive Governments passed that democratic test as far as the west is concerned? This report says no. I am an optimist by nature, but I find much of the language in A Crusade for Survival depressing and pessimistic. I hope this is the last report of its kind that we will face in this House. It is the latest in a long line of similar reports stretching back over many decades. The time for reports has long passed. The time for action is now.

How much time have I got left, a Chathaoirligh?

An Cathaoirleach

You have five minutes.

Mr. Mooney

I wish to give the remainder of my time to Senator O'Brien.

Mr. O'Brien

It is welcome and appropriate that the House should discuss the Developing the West Together Report entitled A Crusade for Survival within a short time of its launching. It is a well prepared study which gives us much to think about. The western bishops and all who assisted them in compiling this report deserve great credit on their initiative and I compliment all involved with it. While identifying the problems of the west in a concise manner, the report attempts to some extent to provide solutions. All of us must contribute to this. While it may be difficult, it can be achieved if all involved work in a constructive manner.

While outside the confines of this report, my region of Counties Cavan and Monaghan has much in common with the west. Indeed, it is true to say that rural areas have many, if not all, the problems identified in this report. Therefore, it is appropriate that detailed consideration is being given to the report. The urgency of the situation in our rural areas is currently being realised by all. A new commitment to the revival of the rural areas is underway. The report has helped focus attention on the seriousness of the problems and will put pressure on all agencies to work with those on the ground for the betterment of all.

This Government, under Taoiseach Reynolds, is sincerely committed to the revival of the western and rural regions. With the policies and the recent initiative taken bringing a new hope to rural areas, the Taoiseach, who was born in the west and has a great understanding of the problems outlined in this report, has already taken positive steps in responding to it by establishing a task force under his Department to investigate the recommendations of the report and to report to him with its findings. County Monaghan has experienced similar difficulties. Indeed, our situation has been made more difficult as a Border county, but we must look forward and see how we can reverse past trends and failures.

We want to improve the quality of life for every person in rural areas and provide facilities for these areas so that people will want to remain there. What this means is giving people employment, services and facilities similar to those available in the bigger centres of population.

One of the biggest problems in County Monaghan is the roads. These are the only means of transportation and the bad winter has left them in a terrible condition. Although the Minister recently allocated a substantial amount of money for county roads, I urge the Government to allocate more EU funding so that a proper road structure may be put in place. This is vital for the future development of tourism and food and manufacturing industries in County Monaghan. I am proud to say that County Monaghan has led the way in the establishment of many industries, such as poultry, mushrooms, etc., but we need greater assistance for our roads.

The Government's initiative in setting up a county enterprise board is vital for local activities. The bottom up approach is the way forward, where the people take the initiative and the agencies respond in a co-ordinated way. The enterprise boards could successfully manage this process.

The Leader programme, Interreg and the International Fund for Ireland have played a large role in rural development in County Monaghan. I hope this will continue under Leader 2, which will come on stream shortly. Rural Ireland will have a bright future if many of these proposals are accepted. We must ensure that local development is encouraged, not frustrated.

Mr. Naughten

Like the previous speaker, I am not convinced that the present Taoiseach and this Government will solve the west's problems. However, they have time to prove me wrong and I hope they will do so.

This report should have been done 30 years ago, although I welcome it and congratulate the bishops involved. The west missed the industrial boom of the 1960s. Many industrialists who came west did not set up in Athlone, but in Galway, and the areas in between were forgotten. This report states that the population will drop by 20 per cent over the next 20 years. However, the decline will be worse if this trend does not change.

Although the haemorrhage of population from the west is emphasised in this and other reports, the age structure has not been emphasised to the degree it should be. There are many elderly and young people in the west, but there is an insufficient number in between and the level of dependency is creating problems. The major haemorrhage of emigration in the 1970s means that many families are now in London, Manchester, Birmingham, Australia and America and there is no one to look after the elderly parents at home. They now depend on the health boards to provide accommodation for them in long stay geriatric institutions, etc. Now that the Government has a substantial amount of Structural Funds at its disposal — although it is £2 billion less that what it should be — it is time to give the west the boost it so badly needs.

Every Member is aware of the major development works on the east coast, particularly the new roads construction. We must all commute to and from the east coast and our products must go from the west to the ports. However, the west's road structures have been neglected. Senator O'Brien referred to the difficulties in County Monaghan and County Cavan and these can be reflected in every county in Connacht. We have not received the required level of funding from central Government since the removal of rates in 1977. This is the reason our roads are in a deplorable condition.

Does the Government realise that a disastrous situation is developing because of the age structure of the community in the west? The people are no longer able to generate activity because of the haemorrhage of emigration over the last 30 or 40 years. There are no business people left who are able to generate business or create new jobs.

We are a long distance from our ports and airports when we want to export products. It costs more to export lamb from the west to the French market than it does for someone producing lamb in County Wexford. The same applies to beef and milk. The west depends on agriculture and it will continue to do so. Members in both Houses should not think that one can change the way people operate overnight. The west depends on agriculture and this means a cheque in the post, whether it is a headage payment, a suckler cow payment, or beef premiums. However, this Government seems to have forgotten to pay the substantial grants owed to farmers. Every effort must be made to protect these price support mechanisms, otherwise every small town and village in the west will die. Many places are already suffering as a result of emigration, but they will die if the farming structure is not retained.

Senator Lee referred to the poverty and the low rates of income in the west vis-a-vis the east coast. A problem which this and successive Governments have failed to tackle is the level of income of many families in the west. This has had a knock-on effect in every town and village in the west. Unemployment is also a major problem. County Roscommon does not have the same level of unemployment as other areas because the people there will emigrate if they do not have employment. As a result the population in some electoral areas dropped 8 per cent between the last two censuses. This meant the elderly people were left at home with no one to look after them.

There are many positive things happening in the west. We have a young workforce who are well educated and able to apply themselves if industrial employment becomes available. We also have an excellent working environment and the level of crime is extremely low. The agencies concerned should make a greater effort to encourage industrialists to come to the west. The difficulties involved in exporting products from the west means that greater incentives are needed to establish industries there.

Successive Governments have not recognised the haemorrhage of population from the west due to emigration or migration to the east coast. It is easier to look after a family in the west than in Dublin, for example; hospitals, schools and housing have to be provided for them. All of those facilities are in the west and it is easier and more desirable to try to retain those families in the west rather than have them migrate to Dublin.

Farming is an important part of life in the west and 70 per cent of the people in the west live in rural areas. That factor is often forgotten by Governments when they talk about the price structures or the incentives that operate. The Minister of State is less than enthusiastic about the headage payments mechanism — I read a quote from her on the matter and I hope she was quoted wrongly. It is a mechanism that should not be touched. It is a vital part of the income of the west and we should be trying to increase it rather than reduce it. It is a direct payment from Brussels to the west and saves the Government substantial sums of money on social welfare.

We have not maximised our opportunities for tourism in the west and in rural areas generally. Far more can be done in these areas. Some worthwhile projects were established under the last tranche of Structural Funds, but steps should be taken to ensure that all the money would not be put into ten or 12 different projects. If there are other good projects in a county the money would be better shared out among a variety of those projects rather than pumping too much into golf courses or other facilities which may in themselves be desirable, but we have to be careful not to overdo them.

The Leader programme and the county enterprise boards have a role to play in establishing industry in the west. One of the difficulties with the Leader programme is the need for matching funding, and, as I pointed out earlier, because of the level of emigration in the west in the last 40 years we have not the mechanisms nor the business people there to put up the matching funding for many projects. I have seen projects grant aided under the Leader programme which would be questionable as to the extent to which they increased the income of the communities who received the funds. More emphasis should be placed on projects that will create jobs, because that must be our basic objective.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on this report and I hope the Government will not leave it to gather dust but will act on it. I look forward to seeing positive action with regard to the report's recommendations. One of the recommendations in the report is the appointment of a Minister for the west and there is a lot to be said for that. I urge the Minister and the Taoiseach to take that recommendation on board because such a Minister could have a major influence on stimulating activity in the west.

Page 6 of the report refers to activities where jobs could be created and one of those is in the pigmeat industry. I often wonder if people are conscious of the huge tonnage of pigmeat that is imported each week. We could produce that meat here and give a much needed boost to many of our pig farmers who are in bad financial circumstances at present. Seed potatoes also have potential and, as a former seed potato grower, I would say that it was Government interference which wrecked that industry, yet it is recommended in the report. Donegal is a typical seed potato growing area as is my own area of south Roscommon. I welcome the report and I appeal to the Government to act on it.

Mr. Calnan

I wish to share my time with Senator Kelly.

An Cathaoirleach

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Calnan

I welcome the opportunity to speak on A Crusade for Survival which is the report of Developing the West Together, and I would hope that we are not to late for that survival. I come from west Cork, which may not be in the west but has great similarities with the counties of the west. The western seaboard of my county has a lot in common with the coast from Donegal to Kinsale. We have mountains and hills and, in general, poor quality land with many rock outcrops and rock near to the surface and when it rains the land gets waterlogged. We have many coastal areas where the exposure to the roughness of the Atlantic means that the environment is hard.

In many parts of the west of Ireland and the western seaboard there are peninsular areas which are remote, isolated, mountainous, coastal and rugged, and we must not forget the people of our islands. I live in an area of west Cork where there are about seven islands that are still inhabited and the inhabitants find it difficult to make a livelihood. They are remote and isolated, the land is poor, transport is difficult and the roads are poor. All these factors combine to leave these people in a worse condition than those on the mainland.

The areas from Donegal to west Cork suffer from peripherality. Ireland itself is on the periphery of Europe and these areas on the periphery of Ireland are even more remote. I live in the centre of west Cork, not in the more outlying parts by the sea, and it is about 200 miles to Dublin and 170 miles to Rosslare, which is the main cross channel port for the region. There are developments in Cork, but the vehicles use the shorter crossing from Rosslare which takes about three hours. Adding another 50 or 60 miles to those figures for Castletownbere, one can see the difficulty that is encountered by hauliers alone. Consequently, people living in those areas who produce goods have a massive transport cost. Transporting fish, for example, from Castletownbere involves a great haulage cost. In the remote areas smaller sums of money are spent on roads and, consequently, the condition of the roads there is not good and hauliers often have to include a cost for damage done to the lorries.

All of these areas have suffered from isolation, as I mentioned, and also from depopulation. The population is broken down into three sections — the young dependant, the old dependant and the working people. It is usually at the stage of transfer from young dependant to the young worker category that there is a movement of people out of these areas. I was in E1 Salvador for the elections last week and I am glad to say that everything went peacefully. I came back through New York at my own expense and I stayed there for a number of days. I met with some of my past pupils and other emigrants and I found that their ambition and drive is a great loss to the country. They are young, ambitious and hardworking, and they make money. They get on well together and have a good social life. However, it is unfortunate that these are the young people whom I taught a few years ago, their parents reared them and the taxpayer paid for their education. It is unfortunate that another land is benefiting from their education and upbringing and that they are so far from home. They are making the best of it but it is up to us to ensure that people along the western seaboard will have proper living and working conditions. They should be given an opportunity to show their talent here. Our people in America are working in the building trade, in bars, in offices and in the nursing profession. They have cut a niche for themselves in a new society. When they come home we are glad to see them but it would be much better if we could create employment for them.

Many aspects of life have suffered in the west. There has been a fall off in social services. A spiralling effect can be seen; as one social service goes, others follow and it becomes more difficult to live in these areas and, consequently, people move away. Some towns and villages in the west do not have enough people to field a football team, have no confirmation class and have only one or two children enrolling in primary schools each year. The knock-on effect will be loss of jobs in schools and service industries, such as transport. These are real issues along the western seaboard and if we cannot stop this trend the west will not survive. Small towns and villages, pubs, shops, post offices and rural schools will suffer if nothing is done in the west.

Many large families in the west were reared on small farms and had to go abroad to make their living. The quota and set aside systems mean the end of these farms; they will be swallowed up, bought as holiday homes. This will have a devastating effect on those who provide services. Agricultural contractors, drivers and suppliers of agricultural products and machinery will all be affected by people leaving as a result of set aside and quotas.

That is the bleak picture but there is tremendous potential in these areas. There are many young people looking for jobs. They have the ability to do what is required of them — we see that when they go to foreign lands — but they need training. Our EU money must be used wisely. Another speaker said money must not be put into useless large projects and that if it was used to develop smaller areas other matters will fall into place. National funds, semi-State expertise and local and private moneys are also needed to develop these areas.

The county enterprise and tourist boards already exist and thankfully the second Leader programme will be coming onstream soon. The first programme worked well in our area and started projects which otherwise would not have been undertaken. When one project is started it is amazing how others copy it and see what training and development can do.

The ports in these areas must be upgraded, whether for recreation, fishing or other purposes. Fish are being landed in appalling conditions along our southwest coast. In Roaring Water Bay a group of fishermen started a co-operative. They have to travel over rocks and stones for great distances, hauling boxes of material to the coast. I hope money will be used to develop those ports and for tourism. We have the coastline, clean air, good scenery, inland lakes and many other amenities which can be developed. Small industry could also be upgraded.

Ms Kelly

Developing the West Together is an important document which shows the welcome concern of the western bishops about the future of the west. Like Senator Kiely and others, I seek to redefine the west because the problems identified in the document are not peculiar to that area. As Senator Calnan said, we should be talking about the western seaboard because the west does not begin in Donegal and end in Galway. The problems in Mayo are not all that different from those in Beara, the Dingle peninsula or my own area, the uplands of west Limerick.

There has been such a population decline in my electoral area that at the next local elections it has been suggested that the number of seats be reduced from six to five. Since I occupy the sixth seat that is a matter of great concern to me. Some areas are in a more advanced state of decline than others. We need to draw up a strategy for non-urban or rural Ireland.

The problem of decline is not new and its origins cannot be found 30 or 40 years ago — they go back to pre-Famine times. Many of those who died in the Famine or who subsequently left were surplus population, the younger sons and daughters whose families had small farms and there was no place for them in the west. They often went willingly to America, Australia and England where they sought better opportunities for themselves and their children. There is no longer a surplus population. Those leaving now are the heirs to family farms and small businesses. We are seeing a structural population decline which has involved us in a spiralling downward movement. The economic pull is toward the centre and this will continue unless there is intervention.

I strenuously disagree with Professor Lee when he says urban problems are not connected with rural decline. They are two sides of the same coin because many people from the west have migrated to larger cities and created our urban sprawl.

We have to intervene, otherwise passivity and apathy will ensure that this problem will continue and worsen. If we are to solve the problem we must intervene economically. The headlong move to the cities is not in the long-term interests of this nation. In our hearts we are not an urban people; even those of us who have lived in towns and villages for generations maintain a link with the countryside. We must keep as many people as possible in the country.

I disagree with Senator Naughten's insistence that headage payments should not be changed. Headage payments put a premium on cattle or sheep and we must move away from supporting animals. We must look to families. We speak of disadvantaged areas and townlands but not of disadvantaged farms. Many problems of emigration stem from the fact that not enough money is poured into families.

Low paid workers can avail of family income supplement. I cannot understand why small farm holders do not get the same level of support as families in industry. It would not take a great deal of imagination. Alternative farm enterprises are often quoted as the solution. However, the problem again arises where the smaller and poorer the farm, the more it needs help and the less likely it is to become a farm guesthouse. It is usually the larger and better organised farmers who make use of whatever grants or facilities are available. It is no surprise, therefore, that approximately 80 per cent of farm funds go to the top 20 per cent of farmers, with the bulk of small holders trying to eke out a living on the remaining 20 per cent.

Small towns and villages are an integral part of rural Ireland. They should not be overlooked when a strategy for the development of the west is devised. Just as larger urban areas have been given an incentive to improve, so too should smaller towns and villages be helped to fulfil their role. The role of small villages in providing a social outlet for those who live in the remote countryside cannot be over-emphasised. The bishops' suggestion that rural resource centres should be established is excellent. They should be funded by direct Government intervention rather than by the people themselves so that country dwellers, whether they are small farmers, shopkeepers or business people, can avail of such facilities as faxing, photocopying and computer links. This will enable them to keep abreast with what is happening in the wider commercial world.

It is as important for farmers to be aware of the latest developments in farm grants as it is for small businesses to get advice on tax problems. This was outlined by the task force on small businesses. It is all part of being small and being encouraged to keep going, even if one's operation is small. There is a place for the small farmer and small businesses in this country; big is not always beautiful. We need to continue focusing on the fact that people should be kept in the area where they grew up, in small towns and villages, and encouraging businesses to stay in small areas.

People living in country areas should be encouraged to think outside of Ireland. Those with skills can live in country settings and work abroad. My brother lives in the country and travels abroad regularly for service contracts in Russia, Bulgaria and other such places. People do not have to emigrate to get work abroad. We need to maintain telecommunications, electricity and the other links that make industry in small country areas possible.

I cannot over-emphasise the importance of roads. We must maintain a decent road structure to link village to village, village to town and town to city. If the road links disappear so too will the arteries by which we can move around and bring our produce to larger markets.

The work of women on farms is unrecognised, unpaid and uncredited. It would give a greater impetus to the idea of rural development if women were given credit for their work.

Mr. Sherlock

I wish to share my time with Senator Cotter.

An Cathaoirleach

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Sherlock

I welcome the opportunity to contribute on the important Developing the West Together report. The political system has so dismally failed the people that it was necessary for the bishops to take the initiative on this important matter. Since the foundation of the State, the politics of the west have been dominated by the conservative policies of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. One must recognise the input of McDyer and the Glen Columbkille initiative which was not taken up at the time; there was a great deal of disappointment about that at the time. However, the greatest disappointment was the closure of the potato factory in Tuam. Those who were contracted to grow potatoes for the Sugar Company did not supply the factory and this resulted in its closure.

The policy of decentralisation adopted by the State is not a development policy as formerly existed in the Shannon regional development area. The objective of Ireland as one area means that an overall policy should be adopted for urban and rural areas. The establishment of regional authorities under the 1991 local government Act will do little to create the required integration to introduce a system that will incorporate all levels of authority so that an impact can be made on safeguarding and re-enforcing local self government, based on the principles of democracy and the decentralisation of power.

I am in favour of the principle of subsidiarity. It should mean the distribution of power from top to bottom and vice versa, but this has not happened. Instead, articles relating to the EU Treaty provide for a principle of subsidiarity which is no more than a criterion for the exercise of power, shared between the Community and member states. The Treaty of European Union recognised the essential role of local and regional authorities as partners by associating them with the Community decision making process in its regional committee. This committee will bring about integration and nine people were appointed to it by the Government. There has been no report by the committee to date and this is indicative of the lack of interest in creating the type of integration that is urgently required.

The bottom up integration approach, across all sectors and instruments, is the preferred scenario of the EU Commission at this time. It is the advocated approach but it has not been adopted in the application of reformed Structural Funds. There is a hierarchy associated with the development of rural areas, extending from the European Community to the local community. Each tier has the responsibility and the capacity to fulfil its particular role in supporting and promoting the development process. The concept of subsidiarity finds its true expression here. Rural development is about raising the socio economic well being of people in local communities but ultimate responsibility for the livelihood of individuals and their families must rest with the individuals themselves.

The regional authorities have a key role in the research and development of planning based on the region's strengths, in the co-ordination and support of development strategies and in the co-ordination and implementation of national and EU policy at that level. However, Ireland lacks the initiative and political will to put in place structures with a meaningful role and the regional structures will not have their intended effect.

Politicians have been dissuaded by civil servants from putting such structures in place, not because of any objective planning reasons but because they do not have the confidence in the ability of lesser beings to achieve what they themselves have yet to achieve.

In welcoming the Minister to the House I note that there is no civil servant accompanying her to listen to this debate. This illustrates the level of interest in the subject. It may well be the case that addressing the subject may simply mean putting some remarks into the record of the House.

A so-called objective reason for the lack of regionalisation of planning has been that Ireland stands to gain more from the EU through its present single region status. This claim, which has never been demonstrated, must be strenuously questioned and the reasons given must be interrogated.

Rural Ireland is already in a depressed state. This is the logical outcome of the operation of market forces in the larger capitalist society. It will worsen following the changes to the CAP, where 20 per cent of those involved received 80 per cent of the benefits. Rural development is primarily spatial in character. It has a particular sectoral dimension, which is agriculture.

In a move which is widespread, where groups, consortia or whatever are involved rather than individuals, it was reported in The Irish Farmers Journal of 22 January, 1994, that a prominent member of the IFA from County Cork:

...explained to a meeting that he bought 39.5 acres near Ballina, Co. Mayo with a 25,000 gallon quota...He added that he was now producing this milk along with his existing quota on his County Cork farm.

The same individual has a quota of 100,000 gallons before he bought a farm and a quota of 25,000 in the west of Ireland. Such individuals are wealthy enough to undertake this and it is happening on a widespread basis. It must be stopped, because it was confirmed in the same report that: "The legality of the arrangement was confirmed by the Department of Agriculture".

My advice to the people of the west of Ireland is that they keep their milk quotas, because if they sell their milk quotas they destroy their dairy industry. There should be a policy whereby those wishing to dispose of their quotas should be leasing them to those who want them in order to have a viable, sustainable income from the land in the west of Ireland.

The same individual who bought land in Ballina could plant trees on it, and obtain a grant from the State for doing so, in addition to obtaining 50p per gallon for his 125,000 gallons of milk. This kind of activity is taking place in Ireland and the reason for the decline in our rural population is because rural Ireland is dominated by wealthy people.

The economic and social future of rural Ireland cannot be distinguished from the future of Ireland and its regions. The future of both depends on the capacity to formulate and implement development policies within Ireland on the evolving relationship between Ireland and the EU.

Mr. Cotter

I thank Senator Sherlock for sharing his time with me and I welcome the Minister to the House. This debate is relevant to areas outside of the west of Ireland, as defined in this report. My own constituency of Cavan Monaghan fits into this category in so far as much of provincial Ireland is experiencing population decline. My own county and the neighbouring County Cavan have experienced this decline since 1985 and it appears to be continuing. Whereas the pace of such decline may not be as great as it is in parts of the west of Ireland, it is nevertheless a factor which must be taken into account when undertaking an analysis of the situation in the area.

Many of the native industries in my area, whose success could be examined by communities outside Counties Cavan and Monaghan, may well have a short life span because of their nature. What is worrying is that when they disappear the area will have nothing, because rather than multinational investment, it is all local investment in industries such as the County Monaghan mushroom industry, the poultry industry and other similar industries which have developed because of the ingenuity of the local people.

Such industries tend to be labour intensive and to come under pressure over time from other economies and communities where costs may be much lower. The area does not have modern industries such as hi-tech or information technology. In addition, it has a problem, common with but more applicable to the west of Ireland, in so far as the percentage of the population involved in the services sector is approximately only 50 per cent, which represents a stage of underdevelopment.

Manufacturing industry will not employ people as the strategy employed by all those involved is more machines and fewer people. In the west of Ireland the manufacturing base is decreasing and there is a small services sector. This makes it difficult to develop the economy of the region. In view of this it should be accepted that the west of Ireland cannot make it on its own. This also applies to communities across provincial Ireland.

The Leader programmes, of which we are all so proud, were implemented 25 to 50 years too late. There was economic activity in the west of Ireland when it was populated, but population and economic decline tend to feed off each other. Such wealth as there is in the region tends not to be invested, because there is little or no return on it when the population is decreasing. This vicious spiral is difficult to halt and this factor should underpin Government thinking on the issue.

It should be established as a point of reference, therefore, that the west of Ireland cannot make it on its own and that, in view of this, solid outside intervention is required. However, on this point there is a worry that the region is largely dependent at this stage on multinational industry. The House is aware that for many reasons the region does not benefit from multinational industry to the same extent as native industry. One such reason is that multinational industry tends to uproot and leave whenever there is a difficulty and another is that it tends to repatriate profits and so on. In view of this, and because of the enormous problems faced by the region, outside intervention must be measured, substantial and well focused.

I mention one example from my constituency which mirrors the type of problems experienced in the west. Clones, County Monaghan, is probably the most "Border" town from Louth to Donegal. When the two economies operated differently, Clones suffered economically and it has not yet recovered. Money is made available to local authorities and individuals through programmes to get projects moving. Matching funds is a problem faced by the people in County Monaghan and other counties along the Border, including Leitrim, Donegal and poor areas; it is a problem we are always discussing. How does one handle that situation? Clones Chamber of Commerce and Urban District Council are always discussing ways to handle the problem of matching funds. The Government must accept the need to intervene in certain areas to bring about development.

Clones is clawing its way back, but it is finding it difficult to regenerate its economy and maintain or increase its population. However, it faces a problem in matching funds. Decline feeds off itself. Who wants to wants to invest in an economy where there are no returns or no people? This debate is worthwhile, but we need to establish certain criteria for development and I hope we will do so.

Mr. Daly

I would like to share my time with Senator Fahey.

An Cathaoirleach

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Daly

I compliment and pay tribute to those who worked diligently to put this excellent document together. I agree with the report's analysis but I do not fully agree with its recommendations. I come from an area which has benefited from a board and a development agency since 1959. I suggest that regional agencies are the best way the way forward. Linking the new regional authorities, which are based on IDA regions, with the new urban and rural committees established by the Minister for the Environment would give a democratic say to the new development agencies. This has not been proposed in the report, but it is only a detail. I agree with the report's analysis.

The report is timely because it coincides with developments in the EU and with discussions which are taking place in Europe about the need for new initiatives and polices. The debate on this issue which has taken place over a number of weeks may be sent to the European Commission. The Commissioner for Social Affairs, Mr. Flynn, asked for a debate on this area and that a copy of it be forwarded to the Commission by the end of this month. Points raised on both sides of the House have been valuable and worthwhile. It indicates the situation in regard to failed policies.

At present 17 million people are unemployed in the EU and a large percentage of those are in Ireland. The decrease in farm employment has been the main reason for the decline of western communities. The Government faces a major task in developing alternative farm enterprises based on agri-tourism and the development of the agri-food business. I support what Senator Cotter said in that regard.

The main problem faced by young people when establishing a new business is to find adequate finance to enable them to do so at a reasonable cost. For that reason I welcome the ICC loan which is available at a reasonable interest rate. Young people should be able to avail of it. Three projects in my neighbourhood recently sought financial assistance from the ICC and they received a favourable response. One project will provide 40 jobs in an area where there are few jobs at present.

Investment is needed in the agri-tourism industry. I do not know what happened to the agri-tourism fund which funded such projects. Excellent projects were set up under the agri-tourism programme. Now many projects need funding to get under way but the funding has run out and it has not been supplemented. Would it be possible to reestablish the agri-tourism fund to enable small agri-related projects to be set up? Such projects would revitalise western areas and offer permanent employment to many people in the tourism and related businesses which could be linked to the agri-food business.

Senator Cotter highlighted the success of Monaghan Mushrooms. In Tubber, north Clare, a small co-operative has made great strides in that regard. It is important to emphasise these achievements. Many Senators mentioned the necessity to create employment opportunities for women. Nearly all the workforce in one of the projects in Tubber are women. This is an area where there are few employment opportunities for women.

I welcome this initiative by the western bishops and by those who supported them. I agree with the report's analysis, but I do not agree with the technical details in relation to its proposals. That is a matter for the Government to deal with on a national basis and I urge it to do so.

Mr. Fahey

I welcome the bishops' initiative. It casts politicians and civil servants in a poor light because we depended on them to come up with this initiative. We stand indicted in that regard. We should recognise that fact and learn from it. Would a Dublin based Civil Service have come up with such an initiative? The answer is no. Civil servants based in Dublin do not devise initiatives based in regions outside Dublin. That is a matter which politicians should consider.

The recommendations which are being considered by the Government task force in regard to the appropriate institutional response will be important. I hope there will be a radical response from the Government. The problems of the west are summed up in the fact that Údarás na Gaeltachta, an agency doing fine work, cannot get involved in anything other than the manufacturing industry. For example, the main industry in Connemara with employment potential is tourism, yet Údarás na Gaeltachta cannot get involved in this field. We stand indicted because of that ridiculous set up. I hope the task force will come up with the proper institutional response to resolve that problem.

The report refers to natural resources, a topic about which politicians often speak. I concur with what Senator Sherlock said in that regard. Stocks of wild salmon off the west coast are a gold mine in terms of employment potential, yet we have a system which allows drift and draft netting. Senator Daly, a former Minister for the Marine, tried to do something about this but the situation continues to be abused. When the fisheries protection vessels leave Haulbowline, County Cork, the fishermen in County Kerry know they are coming. It is a ridiculous situation and a radical response is needed.

Millions of pounds will be required to stop drift and draft netting by paying compensation to those with proper licences. We should let wild salmon up our rivers and encourage fishermen to catch them with rods and lines. This would generate £5,000 for the local economy instead of £5 for each salmon caught in a net or nothing for each one that is caught illegally, which is how most of them are caught. This is where the future of the west lies. It is the sort of radical approach politicians must adopt. It will be difficult because vested interests will cry to the heavens. The courage which the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications, Deputy Cowen, has shown will be of major benefit to the west in terms of the cost of international telephone calls for small companies operating there and the Shannon stop over. This kind of courage is now needed to do what I suggest in relation to wild salmon. This is how we will create jobs and I hope the Government will respond by putting forward radical recommendations of this nature.

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Ms E. Fitzgerald)

I was pleased to listen to this debate. As always in the Seanad, people spoke from a knowledge of their own areas. In this instance the contributions were rooted in the west. A common theme of contributions was that the problems of depopulation and rural decline, as defined in the report, A Crusade for Survival, are not only apparent along the western seaboard but in many parts of rural Ireland. We can learn from the spirit of the approach to rural development we see in the report.

I recently visited Galway to meet with the western bishops and hear at first hand their views on the problems of the west and the strategies they consider necessary to address those problems. I was conscious of the genuine sense of urgency felt by those involved in the report and by their concern to encourage the broadest possible participation at local level in seeking and implementing solutions. I was struck by the real enthusiasm to meet the challenge of change.

If we are to avoid the deserted villages and towns of a declining rural society, we must act coherently to respond to the challenges identified in the report at both Government and local levels. There are major problems facing the west and other depopulated areas of rural Ireland. However, as well as threats there are opportunities, as well as weaknesses there are strengths. The strengths lie in the commitment of the people and the natural resources of the area. In tackling the issues raised in the report, we need to build on those strengths and harness the enthusiasm of local people to respond to the challenge.

The report has tapped into something real in its emphasis on bottom up development. By listening to what the authors have to say and tapping into the local enthusiasm and willingness to invest in the area, the local knowledge of the area and the local identification of the problems, we can build on the strengths that are there and tap into what will genuinely be the key to the survival and development of rural Ireland. The Government has already taken a number of measures to deal with the problems of local communities caused by unemployment and depopulation.

The thrust of the National Development Plan is towards building up our infrastructure, as broadly defined. This is not just about road building and rail enhancement, although these are undoubtedly important for the development of the west. It is also about building up the capacity of local communities, regenerating confidence and enabling communities throughout the country to survive and thrive through a period of radical change. It is about developing human capabilities as well as the physical infrastructure.

In preparing the plan, the Government was determined to ensure the development strategy adopted should promote balanced regional development. Accordingly, the plan responded to the recommendations of the sub-regional review committees and the Developing the West Together group. I met with the western and north-western sub-regional review committees, among the other groups I met throughout the country. A great deal of their thinking is reflected in this report. The key priorities identified in these submissions have been incorporated in the plan. These are job creation and combating unemployment; promoting economic activity based on natural resources — the report talks about building on existing strengths; improving internal and external access transport infrastructure and encouraging tourism and local development initiatives. These priorities are also identified in the report A Crusade for Survival as being essential to the development of the west.

The aim of the national plan is balanced regional development and to reduce regional disparities. The level of investment achieved in any region under the plan will depend on the extent to which local communities grasp the opportunities presented. We have not laid down in the plan an absolute sum of money for each region. In some areas the regional distribution of the money will depend on the way the national roads programme will develop and the next stage in the choosing of national routes. As some people have acknowledged, expenditure on roads in other areas benefits the west. For example, expenditure on the Athlone by pass is of major benefit to the Galway region in terms of access and expenditure on the Mullingar by pass is of major benefit in terms of access to the Sligo region.

In many of the areas where we have identified funding on an indicative regional basis in the plan, it is up to local communities to come forward with projects and proposals to tap into the funds that are there. The degree to which the west will benefit from the industry programme will depend on the extent to which it comes forward with industrial projects and proposals, including, in particular, proposals for investment in indigenous industry. It is up to people in communities to grasp the investment opportunities in the plan. To the extent that they come up with proposals, they will be able to draw down the funding available under the plan.

The level of investment will also depend on the response of local communities to develop tourism, alternative farm enterprises and fishing. People in the west should come up with proposals, for example on the lines of the wonderful Mayo 5000 model and the Céide fields. Those involved with the Céide scheme developed a natural resource which was hidden under a bog for 5,000 years and turned it into a major tourism project which attracted 80,000 visitors last year. It is through the development of ideas like this that people in the west will be in a position to draw down the funds available under the tourism programme. We need to look at not only farm development but off-farm rural development and the opportunities identified by many Members for farm, fishing and angling tourism and off-farm employment in areas like forestry.

Senator Mooney spoke about the problems experienced in Leitrim in relation to forestry. A study was conducted by the ESRI on the economics of investment in, and the employment content of, forestry. It examined north Mayo and Wicklow and found that forest development can provide more jobs per acre than conventional farming. We should not write off forestry as being anti-jobs. There is major potential for developing jobs in the west in planting, thinning and harvesting forest products. Ultimately we hope to achieve investment in processing wood near where the timber is grown. The national plan identifies wood processing as one of the areas of industrial development we want to see moving forward.

The extent to which people in the west benefit from the plan will depend on the willingness of local communities to match public funding under the plan with their own resources. One of the interesting points made in the report is that in some towns substantial funds are sitting in local banks, under the control of people living locally. These funds are available if people are willing to invest in the potential of their own areas. People know their own areas and know where the best returns can be obtained for their community. If people are willing to invest their own money, there will be matching Government funding available. The extent to which the west, or any other region, benefits under the plan will depend on the extent to which people are prepared to come forward and avail of opportunities. The Government is putting opportunities on the table and they are there to be grasped.

One of the most exciting aspects of the bishops' initiative was the involvement of local communities, through Core Groups, in the process of assessing and identifying their areas' economic potential. One of the interesting factors of the report was the extent to which it resulted from a bottom up process, from a series of groups based in different parishes in the west who came together and formulated their ideas. Other communities and regions could learn from this approach as it is a key to local development.

The plan also acknowledged a principal emphasis of that study, which was the need for the involvement of local communities in the process of economic development. In a major new departure, the national plan contains a major local development programme based on the partnership of local communities, State agencies and the social partners.

The Government is fully committed to local community development and accepts that a partnership approach provides the best basis for social and economic progress, growth and jobs. This is evidenced at all levels from the Programme for a Partnership Government and the Programme for Competitiveness and Work down to the local area partnership companies. To facilitate the local development programme the Government has recently expanded the boundaries of some of the existing 12 area based partnerships and designated a further 11 areas for a more widely targeted area based approach. In addition, a further ten rural areas were designated to maximise their capacity from the new Leader programme to be negotiated in 1994. They include Mayo North and Mayo Central, Donegal, Connemara, East Galway and Leitrim. These areas will be encouraged to benefit from funding under the new Leader programme. Galway city will be included in the local development programme. The selection of these areas demonstrates the Government's commitment to ensuring access to key resources which are essential for the development of the west.

The programme will target significant resources on rural communities which have been marked by emigration, high unemployment and depopulation. It will also draw together the resources of mainstream agencies to focus more sharply on local needs. The local development programme will also put in place a number of complementary structures designed to address the different facets of local development. The county enterprise boards will build on the experience of county development teams and will act as a catalyst for local enterprise.

I want to see development which comes from the bottom up. This means that structures must encourage and enhance the contribution of local people. We must be prepared to fine tune these structures so that they can respond most effectively to local need. I have visited a number of areas where local development structures are already in place and I am heartened to see the progress brought about through the commitment and energy of local communities working closely with statutory agencies and social partners. I am confident that, arising from the local development programme, practical proposals will be developed locally, building on what has already been achieved by existing partnerships and the Leader groups. I also expect the programme will help to identify and deliver integrated, progressive packages and measures to encourage enterprise as well as education, training and work experience, community development, infrastructure and environmental measures. Local development means bringing together things that have been segmented under different departmental responsibilities, to focus on an integrated approach, building on the knowledge, skills and local commitment of communities to tackle problems and build on the strengths of their own areas.

At the end of the period of the National Development Plan I want to be able to say that the plan made a difference, not just in national economic terms but also at local level. I want the people of the west to be able to see and feel that difference and to know that it happened because of their commitment and their input. My main concern is to ensure that the people of the west get the best value for the money invested in the region. This will involve making the best choices so as to maximise the value added both in terms of individual projects and structural arrangements.

The Government has also recently announced the establishment of statutory regional authorities with a mandate to monitor and advise on the implementation at regional level of the various operational programmes under the European Union's Structural and Cohesion Funds; provide, under statute, regionally based co-ordination between public authorities; and provide a vertical line of communication between the programmes, policies and plans of central Government and the activities of the various authorities at local and regional level. We will ensure that appropriate linkages are developed between all those structures to ensure that there is coherence in our approach to the area as a whole.

We do not want to see a proliferation of local structures and bureaucracies falling over one another. What we want to see are structures that will genuinely tap into local knowledge and experience, and feed that experience back into the heart of central Government. Then central Government can fine tune, adjust and adapt its policies. We want to see the maximum possible devolution of power and responsibility. That is why we have put such effort and money into the local development programme.

Rural development is not a simple issue. It is about an interdependence of towns and villages. It is about an interdependence of rural areas and the economy as a whole. We need to ensure that Irish society has a mix of vibrant urban and rural communities. I do not see this as being a west versus east or an urban versus rural question because we are a small society and we all depend on one another. The strength of any one area depends very much on the economic health and wellbeing of other areas. We need to work to retain a rural way of life. This must be done through solid economic growth grounded in local development and supported by effective national strategies.

The report entitled A Crusade for Survival has made an important contribution to the development of thinking in this area. The Government has established a high level task force to assess the recommendations in the report and to bring forward proposals to Government on actions that might be taken to further the development of the west. The task force has representatives of all the Departments involved in development — in its broadest sense — as well as an equal number of representatives of the social and economic life of the area covered by the study.

I do not have an army of civil servants behind me because they are meeting today and have been meeting regularly over the last few weeks. The work on the report is being taken very seriously indeed. For my part, I can assure the House that the Government will give a speedy response to the recommendations of the task force which we welcome as a contribution that has been well thought out as regards the development of the west. It is something that provides pointers for the development of rural Ireland.

An Cathaoirleach

When is it proposed to sit again?

Mr. Fitzgerald

At 10.30 a.m. tomorrow.