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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 9 Feb 1995

Vol. 141 No. 16

Family Law Bill, 1994: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The Family Law Bill is a very wide ranging measure. It provides substantial power to the courts to deal with the financial consequences of marital breakdown in cases where a foreign decree of divorce is entitled to recognition in the State. Those powers will, in substance, be the same as the powers in any legislation on domestic divorce were the people to vote "yes" in the forthcoming referendum on divorce. The powers include wide powers in relation to maintenance, inheritance and property generally, including the family home and pensions.

The Bill repeals, and re-enacts with amendments, provisions in the Judicial Separation and Family Law Reform Act. The amendments include new provisions giving the courts power in separation proceedings to make orders in relation to pensions. The Bill strengthens the law on maintenance generally, not just in the case of separation proceedings or where financial relief is sought after a foreign decree of divorce. There are comprehensive tax provisions in the Bill to ensure that where property is transferred by our courts between parties following a foreign divorce, those parties will be free of the range of tax measures which might otherwise apply to their situation.

To safeguard and protect the institution of marriage, the age of marriage is being increased and there is provision for notice of marriage. With a view to having clear and simple procedures in the law to enable persons to establish the validity of their marriage in the event of foreign decrees of divorce or separation being granted, the Bill provides for updating of the law in this area. The social reporting role of health boards and welfare officers in family law proceedings in general is put on a statutory footing under special provisions in the Bill.

Jurisdiction and proceedings for decree of nullity of marriage, at present confined to the High Court, is being given also to the Circuit Court. The purpose is to bring that jurisdiction into line with the jurisdiction for separation proceedings, to improve access to the courts and to reduce costs. The Circuit Court is also being empowered to make the ancillary orders in support of spouses where foreign decrees of divorce or separation are entitled to recognition in the State and to make any declarations in relation to the status of a person's marriage.

The District and Circuit Courts will have jurisdiction to order maintenance by way of lump sums and secured payments. That jurisdiction is at present confined to the Circuit Court in separation proceedings only. The District Court will have jurisdiction to make orders under the Family Home Protection Act, 1976, where the rateable valuation of the home is no more than £20. Jurisdiction is at present confined to the Circuit and High Courts.

In bringing forward the Bill, I am indebted to a wealth of sources, not least the White Paper on Marital Breakdown. The Bill draws on the provisions of the Family Law (No. 1) Bill contained in that paper. I should also mention the following reports of the Law Reform Commission on which the Bill is based: the report on the Age of Majority, Age for Marriage and some connected subjects and the report on Jurisdiction in Proceedings for Nullity of Marriage, Recognition of Foreign Nullity Decrees and the Hague Convention on Celebration and Recognition of the Validity of Marriages. The list of reports would not be complete without mentioning also that account has been taken of the work of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Marital Breakdown, the Combat Poverty Agency in their report on the Financial Consequences of Marital Breakdown and the work of the Second Commission on the Status of Women.

The Bill as now framed does not empower the courts to deal with the financial consequences of a decree of nullity granted in the courts. Those provisions were based largely on those contained in a paper prepared by the Attorney General in 1976 which took account of the laws in other jurisdictions and they were contained also in the 1992 White Paper on Marital Breakdown. However, in the light of further consideration and taking into account representations made to me about possible constitutional difficulties, I decided that the best course would be to delete those provisions and to deal with them in a separate Bill in due course.

Senators may note that the heading to Part II of the Bill still retains a reference to nullity and that the side note to section 5 also makes a similar reference. Those references have been included in error because of an oversight at printing stage and I mention the matter to avoid any possible confusion for those looking at the text of the Bill for the first time.

Turning now to specific provisions of the Bill, Senators will appreciate that in view of its size it would not be practicable for me to go through all of the Bill in detail at this stage. I propose, therefore, to concentrate on the main provisions.

Part I of the Bill contains provisions dealing with short title, commencement and interpretations. Some of those definitions — for example, in relation to "family home", "conveyance" and "household chattels"— are standard provisions in other family law legislation.

Part II, which runs from sections 5 to 21, is concerned with the financial, property and other ancillary orders which the court is empowered to make in or after proceedings for judicial separation. Part II also re-enacts the substance of Part II of the Judicial Separation and Family Law Reform Act, 1989, which is being repealed by section 3, concerning the powers of courts to order financial support in the context of judicial separation. The purpose is to consolidate those provisions with new provisions in relation to life assurance and occupational pensions.

The provisions in section 5 of the Bill deal with preliminary orders that may be dealt with by the court in proceedings for separation and allow the court, before deciding on an application for a decree of judicial separation, to make a barring order or protection order, custody order and orders for a protection of the family home and contents.

Sections 6 and 7 are in one form or another concerned with the question of maintenance of a spouse and dependent children. Section 6 allows the court to make interim maintenance or lump sum orders pending the determination of an application for a decree of judicial separation. Provision for interim lump sum payments is new and is intended to cover situations where there may be hardship or where immediate bills have to be paid by a spouse. Section 7 provides for the making of orders for periodical payments, secured periodical payments and lump sums for the support of a spouse or dependent children. The lump sums may be ordered to be paid by instalments and to be secured.

The provision in subsection (6) of section 7 is new. It gives important powers to the courts in separation proceedings to order attachment of earnings at the same time as maintenance is ordered to be paid. Before deciding on such an attachment of earnings order, the spouse who is to make the payments must be given an opportunity to make representations in relation to the matter. I am also, under section 42 of the Bill, extending those provisions to cases where maintenance is ordered in proceedings under the Guardianship of Infants Act, 1964, and the Family Law (Maintenance of Spouses and Children) Act, 1976.

There are good and valid reasons for strengthening the law in these areas. The Combat Poverty Agency in their report on the financial consequences of marital breakdown highlighted the extent to which maintenance debtors default on payments ordered by the courts. While there are cases where the debtor may due to a change in circumstances be unable to pay — and this is allowed for in legislation already by permitting variations of maintenance — there are many other cases where the debtor simply refuses to pay and this results in the dependent spouse having to pursue separate proceedings in the courts for enforcement of the maintenance. The agency found that where enforcement was ordered by way of attachment of earnings, it doubled the chances of payment. Those facts cannot be ignored and I think that Senators will agree that the provisions I have made are warranted and overdue.

Sections 8 and 9 are the provisions which allow the courts in separation proceedings to redistribute property as between spouses for the benefit of a spouse and any dependent children. In substance, they repeat the provisions contained in the 1989 Act. Section 8 provides that the court may make an order for the transfer of property from one spouse to the other or to any dependent child, an order for the settlement of property, an order to very for the benefit of the other spouse or a dependent child, or both, any ante-nuptial or post-nuptial settlement made on the spouses, or an order extinguishing or reducing the interest of either of the spouses under a settlement of property.

Section 9 deals with a number of orders which may be made in relation to the family home. These may include orders in relation to the right of one spouse to occupy the family home to the exclusion of the other spouse, an order for the sale of the family home and for disposal of the proceeds of sale, and orders under existing statutes, including the Family Home Protection Act, 1976.

Section 10 provides a new and very practical measure for the courts to deal with life assurance for dependent spouses and children. It enables the courts in separation proceedings to make an order for the assignment, in whole or in part, of a spouse's interest in a life assurance policy in favour of the other spouse or a dependent child of the family, or an order requiring a spouse to take out a life assurance policy in favour of the other spouse or dependent children. These orders are designed to supplement or substitute for, where necessary, other orders in support of a dependent spouse and children.

Sections 11 and 12 address the questions as to what should happen to pensions in the context of marital breakdown. I am sure Senators will agree that for too long pension rights in the marital breakdown situation have been neglected and, at worst, ignored. This is despite the case that pension rights are often the spouse's second most valuable asset after the matrimonial home. I do not accept that pension rights are an area which should continue to remain a mystery or be left without specific provisions enabling the courts to deal with the matter. In my view the assignability and valuation of pensions should not be foreign territory. If necessary, spouses must be compensated in one form or another for loss of pensions or they must be assigned an interest to enable justice to be done.

Some members of the pension industry may have reservations for administrative or other reasons about changes in pension schemes necessitated by marital breakdown. The reality is that change to greater equity is with us in the context of the Bill and it is vital to resolve, as best as possible, all the problems of the financial consequences of marital breakdown.

I would like to make a point about property provisions in the Bill, including those in relation to pensions. All property on the breakdown of a marriage may be the subject of a court order once one of the spouses applies to the court for an order in relation to that property. The court will not make an order in relation to property of its own motion. That will also be the position in relation to pension orders.

Property is property no matter how and when it is required. It may include real or personal property, the family home, a business, shares, policies of insurance and pensions. It does not matter if the property is owned by the wife or the husband separately or jointly. The point is that the Bill allows the court, where appropriate, to make the necessary type of order in support of a spouse or children. It has a range of powers to do so.

Sections 11 will allow the court to make one of two types of pension orders. The first type may be described as a pension split order where the member spouse's interest in his or her scheme is reduced by order of the court and that amount used to create an entitlement to an independent and separate benefit for the dependent spouse.

The second mechanism which may be described as "earmarking" is one that retains the dependent spouse's interest in the member spouse's scheme, including the survivor's part, with the proportion of benefit to be paid to the nonmember spouse being determined by the court. Under section 11 notice of any application in relation to a pensions adjustment order must be given by the applicant spouse to the trustees of the pension scheme, and in making a pensions adjustment order, the court must have regard to any representations made by the trustees. In making a pensions adjustment order, the court will give the pension trustees such directions as it considers appropriate in relation to the order.

I am, of course, concerned to ensure that the pension arrangements under the Bill will be as practicable as possible. In this, I greatly value the expertise given to me by members of the pension industry and the help given by them in the formulation of the provisions in the Bill. The provisions are complex and I continue to have the benefit of consultations with pension experts. In the light of those consultations some fine tuning of the provisions may be desirable and I shall be giving consideration to the question of some amendments on Committee Stage. I shall take into account any points which may be raised in the course of further debate on the Bill.

While section 12 deals with pensions also, its scope is narrower. The section contains a useful provision enabling the court to order the trustees of a pension scheme not to regard the judicial separation of the spouses as a ground for disqualifying a spouse from benefiting under the scheme on the death of the other spouse. This is intended to remove a difficulty in situations where the rules of a pensions scheme may provide that survivors' benefit will only be paid to the spouse of the deceased member if both spouses are residing together at the time of the member spouse's death. Notice of an application under this section must be given to the trustees of the pension scheme and the court is required to have regard to any representations made by them. I have made similar provisions in section 42 of the Bill where parties have entered into separation agreements and have those agreements made a rule of court under section 8 of the Family Law (Maintenance of Spouses and Children) Act, 1976. That separation also may not disqualify a spouse from benefiting under the other spouse's pension scheme.

Section 13 re-enacts, in substance, provisions in the 1989 Act empowering the courts in suitable cases to extinguish rights of successions of the spouses following a separation decree. A decree of judicial separation will not end succession rights, but the court is empowered in certain circumstances to do so.

Section 14 empowers the court to order the sale of property and re-enacts provisions in the 1989 Act. It provides that where a court makes a secured periodical payments order, a lump sum order of a property adjustment order, it may, additionally, at any time thereafter make a further order for the sale of any property in which either spouse has a beneficial interest. The order for sale may include provisions in relation to the manner and time of sale and disposal of the proceeds of sale.

Criteria are set out in section 15 for the making of court orders under Part II in support of spouses and dependent children. Subsection (1) sets down that a general criterion provision must be made for the spouse and children as is adequate and reasonable having regard to all the circumstances of the case. Subsection (2) sets out more specific criteria in relation to such matters as spouses' income, earning capacity, property and financial resources, likely future obligations and age, as well as the conduct of the spouses and their accommodation needs. The court must take into account any contribution made by either spouse to the financial and other resources of the other spouse and any contribution made by either of them by looking after the home or caring for the family. Subsection (3) sets out specific criteria in relation to children, which take into account financial and accommodation needs and other matters. Conduct of the spouse may also be relevant to the question of the making of financial and other orders in support of a spouse — desertion, for example, will be a bar unless the court is of the opinion that it would be unjust not to make such orders.

The remaining section of importance in Part II is section 17 which empowers the court, on the application of either spouse, to vary or discharge previous orders under part II, taking into account any change in circumstances. Variation orders are also subject to the criteria set out in section 15.

Part III of the Bill is new and takes into account the recommendations of the Law Reform Commission's report on recognition of foreign divorces and legal separations. At present, where a foreign decree of divorce is entitled to recognition in the State, the courts have no power to order financial or other relief for a dependent spouse. The Bill empowers the court to order such relief under Part II. It also provides that where one of the parties to the foreign divorce decree dies, the other party, if he or she has not remarried, may apply to the court for financial provision to be made for him or her out of the deceased spouse's estate. In considering whether to make an order under this section, the court must have regard to any lump sum payments or property adjustment order made in favour of the applicant, or any devise or bequest made by the deceased spouse to the applicant spouse. The provisions which the court can make under this section, together with any lump sum payments already made or property adjustment order, must not exceed in total the share, if any, of the applicant in the estate of the deceased spouse under the Succession Act, 1965, to which the applicant was entitled or would have been entitled if the marriage was valid.

There is a technical legal aspect of the proposals in Part III on which I would like to make some comment. The Court of Justice of the European Union, in interpreting the Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Judgments in Civil and Commercial Matters, which has been in force in Ireland since June 1988, has ruled that a maintenance order granted in one state, on the basis of the obligation arising out of marriage of one spouse to maintain the other, is irreconcilable with a decree divorcing the spouses granted in the state where enforcement of the maintenance order is sought. For example, if a wife had a maintenance order granted against her husband by an Irish court, and her husband subsequently obtained a divorce in England, an English court would not be in a position to enforce the maintenance order because it is irreconcilable with the fact that a divorce has been obtained there since the making of the original maintenance order. In such circumstances, the only avenue at present open to an Irish person is to apply to the English court, in the divorce proceedings, for maintenance at the time of granting the divorce decree or at any time thereafter. It will now be possible under the provisions in Part III of the Bill for the maintenance creditor, where the divorce is recognised here, to apply to the Irish courts for maintenance. A maintenance order granted in such circumstances by an Irish court, since it will be granted following a divorce which is recognised here, will be capable of being enforced within the European Union.

Part IV of the Bill deals with declarations as to marital status and its purpose is to restate the law which enables a person to apply to the court for a declaration as to the validity of his or her marriage. The provisions implement, with certain changes, recommendations of the Law Reform Commission in their Report on Restitution of Conjugal Rights, Jactitation of Marriage and Related Matters. The commission was of the view that the present law would benefit from restatement in clear terms in modern legislation. At present, the power to give such declarations of status is confined to the High Court and its statutory basis comes from an Act of 1868. The Bill gives the Circuit Court jurisdiction to deal with the provisions in Part III.

Occasionally, the question of the marital status of a person, particularly one who has been married or divorced abroad, may be raised — for example, to determine whether he or she is free to marry here or can claim a pension or other benefit as the spouse or widow or widower of another. Part IV enables the court to make a declaratory order regarding the marital status in these and other cases. These provisions will be welcomed by, among others, the Registrar of Marriages, who can now refer persons with queries about their marital status to the straightforward procedures in Part IV.

Although a declaration will normally be sought by one of the parties to the marriage, others may be legitimately interested in its validity. For example, the trustees of a pension fund may wish to establish whether a woman is the widow of a former member of the scheme. Applications for a declaration may therefore be brought by anyone, but the court must refuse to hear a case if it considers that the applicant does not have a sufficient interest in the outcome of those proceedings.

Part V of the Bill implements a long standing recommendation in the report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Marriage Breakdown for an increase in the age of marriage from 16 years to 18 years. The Law Reform Commission and the Second Commission on the Status of Women also made this recommendation.

The provisions on notice of intention to marry are consistent with the requirement of most churches that notice be given by members proposing to marry. Circumstances may arise where the inflexible application of either or both of the new rules could be unfair. In recognition of this, I am providing that a person affected in this way can apply to the court for an exemption from one or both of the requirements.

Part VI of the Bill deals with a number of miscellaneous provisions, including court jurisdictions, the more important of which, in relation to nullity and jurisdiction under the Family Home Protection Act, I have dealt with in my opening comments.

In the course of the its passage through the Dáil important new provisions relating to taxation were included in Part VI of the Bill. The areas of the tax code to which these provisions relate are stamp duty, capital acquisitions tax, capital gains tax and probate tax. The main effect of these provisions is to extend the property tax exemptions which currently apply in financial and property dealings between married couples to those cases covered by the Bill where the foreign divorce is recognised here. These tax provisions will ensure that couples who are divorced abroad will not be at a disadvantage in terms of our tax code. The added significance of these tax provisions is that they will in substance be the same as those in any future divorce legislation.

This concludes my summary of the main provisions contained in the Bill. I am confident it will be found acceptable in principle by all sides of the House. I assure Senators I will consider fully the points they make today and during later stages of the debate.

I will make brief reference to an important area associated with the Bill which is also being addressed. My colleague in Government, the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy De Rossa, is preparing legislative proposals to provide that no person will be disadvantaged as a result of his or her legal status being changed from married, separated or deserted to divorced. These provisions are required as a follow-on to the provisions in the Bill and again they will be model provisions in the case of provision in our law for domestic divorce.

Senators will no doubt agree that while it is essential to update and modernise our family law provisions and to give the courts full powers to enable justice to be done to parties of broken marriages, it is equally important that where parties can settle the terms of their separation they should be facilitated to do so by way of mediation and that where there is the possibility of reconciliation that should be facilitated by way of counselling. The extra funding for support services which I secured for 1994 and 1995, together with the various legislative measures I am bringing forward this year, are a measure of the comprehensive approach I am endeavouring to achieve in relation to the issues involved in marriage breakdown.

I have brought forward the Bill to put the civil legal aid scheme on a statutory footing. It has been initiated in this House and I look forward to debate on that matter in addition to debate on the Family Law Bill.

I commend this Bill to the House.

I welcome the Minister, Deputy Taylor, to the House. In my new position as Fianna Fáil spokesperson on Equality and Law Reform. I have no doubt he will keep both of us busy in the coming term.

I look forward to working with the Senator in that capacity.

I thank the Minister. It is now a matter of history that in 1986 the then Fine Gael / Labour Coalition Government held a referendum to enable the introduction of divorce. My party has often been described as the villain of the piece, criticised as being responsible for the defeat of the referendum. I rejected that then and I do so now. Nine years later we are introducing vital legislation which is a prerequisite for any referendum being put to the people. Even if this is being done late, it is as well that the legislation be introduced correctly and well in advance of the referendum. My party's position on the holding of a referendum is that we will be constructive in Opposition but we will pressurise the Government to ensure all necessary legislation and safeguards are in place before the matter is brought before the people. That position should find favour with the Minister.

Any divorce referendum must be preceded by putting in place a series of laws to protect spouses and children and to enable justice to be done. When this Bill was initiated in the Dáil, the Minister said it contained model provisions for any future divorce legislation and he has said so again today. As such, the Bill's importance stretches far beyond the framework in which it was set. However, during the year since it was initiated the Bill has undergone radical changes. The Minister would admit that the huge number of amendments he introduced on Report Stage in the Dáil alter the Bill significantly from the one presented to the Dáil on 23 February 1994. It would have been helpful, since it has been amended so greatly, if the Department had presented an updated explanatory memorandum to accompany the Bill after it had passed through all Stages in the Dáil. Amendments have not occurred to the same extent in any other legislation. A new explanatory memorandum to let us know exactly what this Bill will now achieve would have been extremely helpful.

The Bill has substantial provisions for the support of spouses in cases of judicial separation and foreign divorces, but it does not extend those powers to nullity. The nullity issue must be addressed by the Oireachtas well in advance of a referendum on divorce. As the Minister is aware, a large number of marriages have been annulled — State and Church annulments have been described as the Irish from of divorce. To proceed with legislative changes which ignore this and exclude parties who have secured either State or Church annulments is to store trouble for the future.

In the Dáil the Minister stated he was removing the nullity provisions because he felt it would be better to provide for these matters "perhaps in a modified form in separate legislation". Has he been told there is a constitutional problem in dealing with marriages which have been annulled? If this is the position, will he inform us what he intends to do to overcome constitutional challenges or difficulties with this aspect of the problem?

The Bill extends powers to the courts for the support of spouses and dependent children where marriages break down in every circumstance short of domestic violence, with, as I have said, the exclusion of annulled marriages. It also provides new powers in relation to pensions and strengthens the laws on maintenance, which I welcome.

The Supreme Court decision to strike down the Matrimonial Home Bill was a serious blow. Until joint ownership of the matrimonial home is established in law as a norm within marriage a large number of women will feel they are discriminated against. This is an important equality issue which I hope the Minister will deal with and attempt to rectify.

The Minister stated that the Bill allows for the redistribution of property, including the family home. It would be preferable to have enshrined in law the right of both parties to joint ownership of the family home. The Matrimonial Home Bill did not set out to deal with cases of separation or divorce, it was to enshrine that right in law, and the Government must do everything in its power to achieve that objective. I am sure the Minister agrees.

I do not know whether it is proposed to get around the Supreme Court decision and I ask the Minister to state if he is confident the provisions allowing for the redistribution of property, including the family home, are copper-fastened in this legislation. I congratulate the Government on making a formal request to the Supreme Court for an early hearing of the case challenging the constitutionality of the Judicial Separation Act, 1989. Before this Bill passes all Stages in this House, I hope we have an indication of the status of that Act.

The Minister stated the Bill proposes to raise the legal age for marriage from 16 to 18 years of age. This is a sensible proposal. To be fair, the churches have taken an initiative already. Although there is no legal bar on marrying at 16, the Catholic Church has for a number of years effectively refused consent for young couples. Since my own marriage 20 years ago, the Church has insisted that couples take part in pre-marriage courses. Three months prior notice of intention to marry is required, which is a sensible provision. The best way to reduce the number of marriages which fail is to ensure couples get as good a start as possible. It is acknowledged that marriages of very young couples have a much higher rate of breakdown and I welcome the raising of the age limit.

I welcome those provisions of the Bill which give the court power to order attachment of earnings while maintenance orders are being granted. The Minister referred to this also. In introducing this provision he is acknowledging the reality that in a number of cases where maintenance is granted the spouse — normally the wife — finds it difficult to ensure payment of maintenance and time and again becomes involved in further legal proceedings to obtain her entitlement.

As the Minister has stated, the Combat Poverty Agency's report on the financial consequences of marriage breakdown highlighted the extent of default on maintenance orders. It is also wasteful of the court's time if a wife must continually return to court to get what is rightfully hers. I congratulate the Minister on this provision.

The Minister referred to some consequences of this Bill. He published the Civil Legal Aid Bill last week, which is to be initiated in this House and I welcome that. However the provisions in both Bills will see the workload of our courts increase dramatically. We already have complaints about long delays and in cases of marriage breakdown they can have a very damaging effect. Does the Minister feel the District Court and Circuit Court as they currently exist are adequate to deal with family law cases? I feel they are not and the Minister probably agrees.

Prior to the introduction of the Civil Legal Aid Bill we had many complaints about backlogs from parties looking for legal aid. In 1994 the Minister provided additional funding to reduce these delays but people are still complaining that they have to wait for almost a year for legal aid. I know that was disputed.

That should not be the case now.

The Minister has tried to ensure additional resources will be provided in this area but the knock-on effect of the legislative changes necessary to recognise the reality of marriage breakdown will be great pressure on the courts; there will be need for the appointment of additional members to the Judiciary and possibly the provision of additional courts. Every Bill requires finance and back-up resources but the legislation the Minister will introduce will require more than the normal resources which attach to new legislation. I ask the Minister for Finance to support those requests.

I hope when I look for those resources the Fianna Fáil spokesperson on Finance in the Dáil will not make too many difficulties for me.

I will make the case on the Minister's behalf.

As he has said, this is a weighty document and on Second Stage I cannot go through it in the detail it requires. On Committee Stage we will go through the nuts and bolts to see how it will work. The Minister has indicated he will be open to amendments on Committee Stage. I may have been critical of the changes in the Bill as initiated, but the fact that amendments have been made shows the Minister is amenable to accepting recommendations and suggestions by Members on the Opposition benches. I welcome that. If the Bill requires fine tuning we will provide constructive opposition to ensure when it leaves this House it will be as good as we can make it.

Marriage breakdown is acknowledged as a sad fact of life. The effects of breakdown can be damaging to children. We need legislation such as this to at least reduce the financial hardship on families. The Minister mentioned that we must have adequate and well resourced social services to provide the support needed by families who are in what can only be described as crisis and trauma. A marriage breakdown, no matter how civilised, could not be described as other than traumatic for a family. We will need those resources for mediation and counselling the Minister mentioned.

This legislation will be received with mixed feelings. Those who feel divorce legislation will cause further breakdown in marriages are deluding themselves. The introduction of such legislation will not cause an increase in the number of marriages breaking down. The fact that we have not had divorce has not reduced the number of marriages which fail. We, as legislators, must provide support for families finding themselves in this position and deal compassionately and capably with this sad reality.

I support the Bill and look forward to teasing out various aspects on Committee Stage.

I welcome the Minister to the House. I also welcome the Bill which was first published almost 12 months ago. As Senator McGennis said, it has been changed significantly on both Committee and Report Stages in the Dáil. I compliment the Minister on his attitude towards the improvement of Bills and amendments put forward by the Opposition. Perhaps Government Senators should be in a position to suggest amendments, although the politics of the situation sometimes makes that difficult.

It is positive that the Legislature — Dáil and Seanad — is heeded by Ministers when Bills go through the Houses. That should be our purpose because too often we experience Ministers who come here single-mindedly to get a Bill through and treat the Seanad, and possibly also the Dáil, as a nuisance necessary to turn the Bill into an Act. Thankfully this Minister and others have a different attitude. Legislation will often be better for the application of common sense; we are not legal people but we can at least provide that.

It is important that the State recognises changes in society and responds to them with appropriate legislation. The Minister has recognised the growing problem of marital breakdown. This Bill responds to the necessity for strong support services within society to deal with this situation. We must have the means of protecting the vulnerable in society, the children and spouses. We must ensure that the State regulates so that all parties are treated fairly when a marriage breaks down.

The issue of marriage breakdown, as Senator McGennis said, must be treated openly and honestly. It is a fact of life and we must deal with it responsibly. It is important that the courts' powers are strengthened to deal with the consequences of marital breakdown and with matters such as church nullity and foreign divorces. This Bill does that. It is vital that the courts can support the spouses and children in marriage breakdowns.

This Bill deals with the situation following the breakdown of a marriage. I wish to speak briefly about another aspect of this issue — intervention prior to marriage breakdown. Not enough assistance is given before marriages irretrievably break down. On too many occasion I have met people — 95 per cent of whom are women — who are in difficult marital situations. In rural areas there are few places to which one can refer such people. I do not have the skills to advise somebody who has difficulty in their marriage. It is very frustrating to advise somebody to go to the nearest city when they do not want to do so or do not want to move out of their own environment. They sometimes do not understand the type of assistance that might be available if they sought it.

I remember a specific situation where a person who was experiencing great difficulty in their marriage approached me. The marriage had not broken down at that stage but it did so eventually. However, I advised the person to travel to the city which was 15 miles away. The person had no car and no means of transport and I could not persuade the person that such facilities were available to them. The only advice I could give them was to approach a doctor or a priest. I did not consider that response adequate.

In other areas of life, public representatives can get great assistance in dealing with problems, If there is a health problem in a house, for example, or a problem with financial support for a family, one can ask the health board to intervene. Welfare officers will travel to the house at our request to talk to the people involved and to offer assistance and advice. However, that facility is not available for marital difficulty. We should look seriously at institutions such as health boards as locations for a counselling service that will be available and advertised, and on which people feel they can call if they are having difficulties in their marriage. If they are unable to pay their electricity bill or their mortgage they can go to the community welfare officer for assistance. Counselling should be available in the same immediate way. I appreciate the good work being done by the Family Mediation Service and by the Civil Legal Aid Board. However, these services are not present in most rural areas.

The rate of marriage breakdown has increased enormously. It has been calculated that 70,000 couples will apply for divorce following the referendum later this year. I welcome the sentiments expressed by Senator McGennis about the referendum. I might talk to her privately about statements that have been made by some of her colleagues in the mid-west with regard to the position of Fianna Fáil vis-a-vis the divorce referendum. However, I welcome her positive approach. I can give the Senator some documentation on this matter.

The important thing is to have Senator McGennis on our side.

We must have legislation in place to ensure that all areas of concern are covered prior to the referendum. I accept that on the last occasion these areas were not covered. That was one of the difficulties. We learn from our mistakes and, consequently, this Bill is now before the House.

I welcome the raising of the legal age for marriage to 18 years. The waiting period of three months prior to marriage is a good provision and reflects a trend in society where people are getting married at an older age. The Minister referred to the organisations and reports which he consulted. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Marital Breakdown was one of those organisations. A very good friend of mine, the recently deceased former Deputy Willie O'Brien, was chairman of that committee. He did an excellent job in difficult circumstances and at a difficult time for looking at social issues. Times are better now for dealing with those issues.

The Bill faces the needs of children which must remain of paramount importance. This can be achieved by facing the fact of marital breakdown, by encouraging mediation as a means to resolve difficulties and by providing, where necessary, legal representation to protect the interests of children. We must welcome the regulation of property rights in the Bill. This issue created many problems ten years ago. Pension rights is an area of interest to me as I have been involved in pension schemes in the past. A pension is a property and an asset. It is part of the family's assets and it is important that it is dealt with in the manner proposed by the Minister in the Bill.

I welcome the Bill and I welcome the Minister's attitude to amendments which might improve it. I look forward to its speedy passage.

I welcome the Minister and I welcome this Bill. The wisdom of the last Government in separating areas of civil law from the Department of Justice — my remarks are no reflection on the Department of Justice — through the creation of the Department of Equality and Law Reform has been shown to be extremely worthwhile. If this had not been done I doubt that we would have got through the amount of social legislation which I am delighted to see has been introduced by the Minister's Department.

The end of the Bill contains one of the most important provisions. While this Bill is very important, the fact that a Bill will be introduced to put the civil legal aid scheme on a statutory footing cannot but be widely welcomed. I realise the Minister has done his best in the last few years to secure further funding for the Civil Legal Aid Board but putting it on a statutory basis — which many of us have sought — is most important. It is over 20 years since Mrs. Airey took her case to Strasbourg. Our President, the then Senator Mary Robinson, took that case with her. It is a sad fact that it has taken 20 years to have the Civil Legal Aid Board put on a statutory basis. However, I welcome the Minister's commitment to introduce that Bill in this House in the near future.

This Bill must be welcome even if for sad reasons. It must be remembered that there is nothing but tears from everybody's point of view in the breakdown of marriage. However, while the emotional and social breakdown is tragic we must also look at the financial worries that occur in such situations and which have been pointed out so ably by Senator McGennis and Senator Neville.

We have been slow in recognising that marriage breakdown is a serious fact in our society. In this respect Senator Neville was correct when he said that there cannot be a Senator in the House who has not had people appealing to them as to what they can do about the tragic situations in which they find themselves. It is also important to remember that many of these situations may be very violent, where it is not simply the case that the marriage has broken down due to irreconcilable difficulties between the spouses, or that one partner has left to set up home with another partner. A large number of cases of marriage breakdown sadly involve domestic violence. I am therefore pleased to note that the Minister is to give the probation and social welfare services a statutory role within this area.

The financial aspects of this are incredibly important, because in all marriage breakdowns we know that both sides of the breakdown suffer very badly financially. However, the marriage protection legislation which the Minister introduced last year allows for some attempt to be made to pursue spouses who are abroad, or in this case it would be separated or divorced spouses who are abroad. This is important and I am pleased to note that this kind of legislation has been continued in the Bill.

The area dealing with attachment of earnings is most important, because without it spouses find that they have grave difficulties in getting enforcement of payments. However, as the Minister remarked when the House discussed the payments protection legislation, you cannot get blood out of a stone. It is therefore important to remember that the State may have to pick up the problem in some of these cases. In this context I was pleased to note in the budget that there has been a lessening of the distinctions between people who find themselves on social benefit for these kinds of reasons. Examples include the amalgamation of the deserted wives benefit and the lone parent's allowance. All are in the same appalling financial position. It is better that we try to go forward with this problem on a united front rather than addressing them in separate categories and perhaps making differences of one pound here or a status there.

At the end of his speech the Minister stated:

... the Minister for Social Welfare ... is preparing legislative proposals to provide that no person will be disadvantaged as a result of his or her legal status being changed from married, separated or deserted to divorced.

This is very important, because this was an area where during the last divorce referendum there was a great deal of worry over whether people would be in a worse financial situation if they became divorced following the legislation which, it was suggested, would be introduced.

The area of pensions is extremely difficult, but it is probably one of the most important areas which must be addressed. Protection is especially important in, for example, the case of the woman who may have worked within the home — because in general it will be women — for many years to the point perhaps where her earning capacity outside the home is not what it would have been had she been working in outside employment for many years. Finding herself divorced and with no prospects of pension rights and so on is extremely serious and I am pleased this has been addressed within the Bill.

It is important that all legislation provisions within the field of marriage breakdown should be as non confrontational as possible. The Minister has made in the past, and hopes to make for the future also, better financial arrangements for counselling services and mediation. It is essential that we put real money into this area. Senator Neville remarked that often one really never knows whom to send people to. Counselling services have been run for many years on a voluntary basis, but it is now proposed to expand these services so that real help can be given to the problems associated with the breakdown of marriage before it breaks down. Examples include dealing with the problems of alcoholism, violence and so on.

The protection of children, which is difficult enough in these situations, is important both emotionally and socially. However, their financial protection is extremely difficult and it is an area which must be considered very carefully. We have the grim example of the Child Support Agency in England at present to tell us various things that we should not do. I am sure the Minister will ensure that all the efforts which we make in this country to protect the financial situation for children is adhered to. In this respect it is interesting that we talk about cherishing the children and the family in this State, and we blithely signed up to the UN Convention on the rights of children some years ago. However, there are large areas of the convention which could be reread and which we should perhaps address again in the House to ascertain exactly what is out attitude towards children.

I welcome the child benefit increases in the budget yesterday, but there is still no provision for child care in this country. It is a matter of great importance, not just to those within marriage, but even more to those who are separated in marriage or have been divorced from someone elsewhere, and to lone parents. I therefore urge the Minister to have his Cabinet colleagues consider this area also.

The proposal to raise the legal age of marriage is welcome, although some people I know say that it could never be raised high enough for people to be sensible. However, it is without dispute that marriages at a very young age break down more frequently than marriages which take place when people are older. In addition, the waiting period of three months is a good idea.

We often receive reports about teenage pregnancies and the great increase in the number of single mothers in this country. I was involved in correspondence with one of the newspapers about this recently, but it is worthwhile pointing out that in the early 1970s, or 1972 I understand, there were 54 mothers of 15 or under in the country and in 1993, which is the year for which I have the most recent figures, there were 55, so this could not be called a dramatic increase.

While there is an increase in the number of single teenage mothers, it is not quite that dramatic when compared with the number of girls who were obviously pregnant and married when they were 16, 17 and 18 years of age in the past. This is an era to which we would not like to return. I am pleased to note that there are better social attitudes regarding teenage pregnancies and I hope that the Minister's commitment in the Bill to raising the legal age of marriage to 18 will further show that it is very unsuitable to have teenage marriages taking place where there is less than full commitment to the marriage in the first place.

It is also worthwhile pointing out that there are many people in the country who have for a long time been living in second relationships. Sadly, I was one of those who had begun to think that maybe people did not mind whether they were married or not; but I said to somebody recently, who was very disappointed about the last divorce referendum, that presumably it would make no difference to him now. He replied, however, that it was a most serious issue for him. I therefore hope that when the Minister brings forward the referendum in the summer we will all be in a position in the House to understand better the reasons why marriages breakdown, to look especially to the protection of children from those marriages, and in as calm and as rational a way as possible to bring forward the legislation for the referendum, which will not be as emotional and confrontational as on the last occasion.

Debate adjourned.
Sitting suspended at 1 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.
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