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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 11 May 1995

Vol. 143 No. 6

Foreign Affairs: Statements.

I wish to raise an issue which has not been raised in the Oireachtas before. I want to draw the attention of the House to Bhutan, a small country bordered by India and Tibet, close to Nepal and China. Over the last ten years a number of Irish teachers have been supportive of the situation in Bhutan. It is a kingdom which has been a closed country for many years. The people of Bhutan have two religions. There is a preponderance of Buddhists, mainly in the northern part of the country, and the southern part of the country is populated mainly by people of Nepalese extraction who are Hindu. For many years there were tensions but not many problems in Bhutan. Over the last ten years the INTO has been bringing teachers from Bhutan to work in Irish schools and live with Irish families and we have been enriched in learning from them.

In the last three or four years a form of ethnic cleansing has been introduced in the kingdom of Bhutan. Despite its not having a high profile in world current affairs, Bhutan has, proportionately, the worst refugee problem in the world. The total population of the country is unclear, but approximately 87,000 citizens of the kingdom of Bhutan are in refugee camps under the auspices of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees in Nepal and, to a lesser extent, in India. More than one sixth of the country's population has been exiled from the country and is living in refugee camps in another state. These people are being tortured, imprisoned, burnt out of their homes and victimised, and the world is not taking any notice.

Two southern Bhutanese representatives from the camps in Nepal, who are Buddhists and teachers, are in Ireland and, accompanied by the INTO President, Sally Sheils, were received this morning by the President, Mrs. Robinson in Áras an Uachtaráin. The President, therefore, becomes the first head of state to take an interest in the problem in Bhutan. This country shares a border with India and we need to take an interest in it. It does not have riches and does not impinge on the western world, but it has been left to its own devices. I want to draw the attention of elected representatives to this small kingdom, which is unknown to most people. I want to record the gratitude of the south Bhutanese in their camps in Nepal for the interest shown in them by the Irish people. We have sent teachers out there and have received teachers from there over here. We have tried to provide teachers in the camps in southern Nepal and India through the INTO Third World fund. Last week the two representatives of that community were introduced by me to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. The committee was briefed on the issue and it has discussed the problems in the last week.

I raise this issue to appeal to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs to raise the plight of the Bhutanese with the members of the EU and at the UN. I also appeal to him to take direct action by contacting the Indian authorities in New Delhi to get them to take an interest in this matter. Until the western world, through its structures, including the UN, and India take an interest in the problems of the people of this forgotten state in the Himalayas, they will suffer more and more.

I had the pleasure of opening an art exhibition recently of the work of children and students living in the camps in southern Nepal. The art work was a representation of their experiences. It showed graphic images of parents being tortured, villages being burnt, families being driven out and mayhem. It also showed life in the camps, where they no longer have any control over their own destiny, and the difference between it and the life they used to know in their villages in Bhutan.

We need to make it clear to the authorities in Bhutan that we expect democratic structures to be implemented in that country. At present there is an assembly which is appointed rather than elected. The representation in that appointed assembly of those of Nepalese extraction and of the Buddhist religion is far less than their proportion in the population. The King of Bhutan must be made aware of the concerns of the western world.

I recall eight years ago, with my colleague, then Senator, Brendan Ryan, raising the plight of a group of people living in the then unknown territory of East Timor and we had to explain where it was. The issue had not been raised by anybody. It was a closed country. There is more interest in it now. It was mentioned on the Order of Business yesterday and I am sure Senator Norris will refer to it in his contribution.

Bhutan does not have connections with the rest of the world. In order to deal with the problems there we need to involve India, the UN and the EU. I ask the Members of the House who take the trouble to study this debate and those who agree that these are a forgotten people to remember we have a responsibility to reach out to them across the world, to tell them we are thinking of them, that we will try to support them and that as an independent neutral country we will do our best for them.

As I am under pressure of time, I thank Senator Enright for allowing me to make a contribution at this stage of the debate.

I support Senator O'Toole in his contribution. What is happening in Bhutan deserves the attention of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and of the Government. It was discussed yesterday at the Foreign Affairs Committee and I hope the action it will take at national and European Parliament level will be of benefit to the people of that troubled country.

This is an open debate and, as such, is to be welcomed. People on all sides of the House will agree statements on foreign affairs along these lines are highly unusual. It is of great importance and will be seen over a period of time to be both relevant and significant.

There are many aspects to this debate and it is difficult to concentrate on particular areas. I will just outline areas which could be discussed. The Anglo-Irish discussions on the North of Ireland and the peace process can be discussed in this forum. Ireland, the British Government and all political parties are endeavouring to build peace across Ireland. They are dealing with a complex and delicate matter and there is a heavy responsibility on all of us in both Houses and all democratic parties to arrive at a proper and peaceful solution. We hear much criticism on occasion of the Department of Foreign Affairs, but overall their initiatives and advice to successive Ministers and Governments in this area have been most helpful. The Leader of our group, Senator Manning, normally deals with this issue and I am certain he will do so on future occasions. Nevertheless, it is a topic which can be discussed.

The next matter this country and the House will discuss is European affairs as Ireland faces the intergovernmental conference which will deal with the review of the Maastricht Treaty. This is a particularly important review as it will be the first real opportunity for Governments to review progress since the Maastricht Treaty. The review commences with the Spanish Presidency, which is in the first half of next year, and the discussion will be of considerable importance to Ireland. In the second half of the year Ireland will bear the brunt of the discussion. There will be a heavy responsibility on this country, on both Houses of the Oireachtas, on all Government Departments, and particularly on the Department of Foreign Affairs, during the Presidency because of its wide ranging effects. It is essential that this Presidency is a success. All our previous Presidencies were successful. This is particularly significant as it will be the first time we held the Presidency since the enlargement of the Community.

Enlargement of the European Union poses many questions for Ireland, particularly with regard to the level of expansion. The German Government and, to some extent, the French Government are anxious to extend the Union and in the future there could be up to 25 members of the European Union. I do not know whether that number will be achieved, but it could happen in the long term and a number of institutional questions will have to be seriously and critically examined. The running of the Community will have to be examined because of language, currency and voting difficulties.

If there are 25 countries, will there be 25 Commissioners? Some of the larger countries may want two or three Commissioners. It is essential that we retain an Irish Commissioner. Difficulties may arise following enlargement of the Community, but we must assert our rights and ensure we keep a Commissioner. We have had some outstanding Commissioners, who have contributed to the building of the European Union. It is fair to say they were Commissioners in the European sense, and that is important. I have no doubt we will be able to retain a Commissioner and it is essential that there is unanimity in this House to that effect. We must be careful, watchful and diligent to ensure it continues. We must also ensure that the rotating Presidency continues and that we, as a small nation, retain our position on the rota. Voting in both the Commission and the Parliament must be closely scrutinised again. There is talk of qualified majorities and voting structures and we should debate this fully and at length to ascertain the Government's attitude.

We have close relations with both the United Nations and Russia. As an independent neutral country, we should continue to assert our independent policy on matters such as the Russian invasion of Chechnya. There is no reason why we should do anything other than condemn outright that invasion. The bringing in of armies, armoured cars and trucks and the attack on the people cannot be condoned in this day and age and must be totally and utterly condemned.

We have always had excellent harmonious relations with the United States as our history and culture extend so far back. However, we should not support everything the United States Government does as a matter of policy. On occasion we should critically examine some decisions taken by the United States Government. The blockade of Cuba should be seriously reviewed by the American Government because it is affecting the lives of the ordinary people. We should also re-examine our attitude to it.

There are constant daily pressures in the area of foreign affairs and we need greater knowledge of what is happening. We have people working in Rwanda and we are providing aid. However, both the United Nations and the Government need greater involvement and more observers on the ground to ascertain exactly what is happening in Rwanda. Following the genocide in Kibeho, different figures were quoted as regards the numbers murdered. The UN originally said that up 8,000 people were killed, while the Rwandan Prime Minister said that 4,000 had been killed. The Rwandan Government then issued a statement condemning the United Nations, saying that only 200 were killed. Regrettably, UN soldiers had to stand by while these murders took place. It is outrageous that UN soldiers were powerless in such a situation. The UN was set up for peacekeeping purposes. Surely it was intended that it would be able to intervene if slaughter and murder took place in front its eyes? More observers and a more powerful force is needed in Rwanda to try to prevent the genocide of that people.

This debate is important and I hope it will be adjourned to allow others to contribute. Matters occur on a daily basis and Members should have the opportunity to make contributions which are important to this House and the countries concerned.

As usual when we discuss foreign affairs in this or the other House, few Members seem to be interested. It is a pity because, no more than anybody else, we do not live in a vacuum. Our lives are interconnected with things that happen aboard. When we talk about foreign affairs we are talking about the totality of the human experience. The world has become a smaller place and differences in time and space are no longer significant, because one can travel from Ireland to any place in the world in 24 hours. The days of travelling around the world in 80 days or eight days are long gone. We may soon be able to travel around the world in eight hours.

We are speaking at a time which is close to the fiftieth anniversary of the end of Second World War. It is as if there were only two wars. This is not an accurate reading of what has happened in the world. The First World War or the Great War from 1914 to 1918 was confined to Europe, but the Second World War extended into the Far East. These wars obscure the number of wars which have taken place in the world through time, many of which were more horrific than either of these.

When reflecting on the Second World War, I was disappointed that some Members and others believed that we should have been involved and that because we were not, we sheltered under the umbrella of the Allied Forces and were cowardly. We stayed out of the Second World War for specific and significant reasons which have been well documented. The recent history of this country must be taken into account in any analysis of why we stayed out of the war and remained neutral.

The horrific incidents in the Second World War can be exaggerated by some and underestimated by others. I was disappointed, annoyed and shocked when watching a programme on Aunty's — or the BBC as it is known — involvement in the Second World War. During the Second World War the BBC was a propaganda machine for Great Britain and the Allies. It did an exceptionally good job in certain areas. However, when information about the concentration camps became known to the British Foreign Office, the War Office and the BBC, they decided that they would not allow publication of the figures coming through because at that time they were trying to keep the lid on the Middle East. They believed that if they gave this information about the millions of Jews who were being killed, they might lose the Middle East. Through the BBC, the Foreign Office decided to underestimate the numbers killed.

The person in charge of information in the BBC was asked why. He replied that it was politically expedient to do so. The people of Britain and the world could have been informed about the horrific incidents taking place in the camps. The BBC, which was believed by many people throughout the world, did a considerable job in giving accurate information, but deliberately played down the numbers being killed in concentration camps for reasons of political expediency. If it had given the true figures, those in the Middle East might have thought that the British were being pro Jewish and pro Zionist and it might have lost the Middle East.

Unfortunately, political expediency is part of the world of foreign affairs. Too many people and countries decide what to do outside their own boundaries for reasons of political expediency rather than for what is right or wrong. Wars have been fought not on the basis of what is right or wrong but to extend spheres of political influence or for reasons of political expediency where one country wants to control another.

At a time when people are celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the end of the war, John Major said we had 50 years without war in Europe, forgetting that former Yugoslavia was in Europe. The centre of Europe is being torn apart by ethnic conflict. Genocide is now called ethnic cleansing. Certain ethnic and religious groups in Europe are trying to get rid of other ethnic and religious groups. Scores are being settled in central Europe and it is horrific.

Colonial powers caused hunger and deprivation in Africa when they decided that Africans were not human beings and that African soil should be fought over by European powers. I am reading a book at present by Thomas Packenham which indicates why the colonial powers decided to take over Africa. It is a horrific and soul destroying book because it makes me think about what we did and continue to do to that Continent.

Senator Enright mentioned Rwanda and Burundi. What have the French done in these areas? He also mentioned Kibeho camp, which was set up by the French. They then disappeared and allowed the people to be slaughtered. The French are the main Europeans supplying arms to Rwanda and Burundi. However, we cannot absolve African nations from what they are doing in Burundi and Rwanda. The biggest supplier of arms and armaments to these areas — I acknowledge that this information was published in the Christian Science Monitor of April 13 to 17 — is South Africa. At present the world is trying to absolve the South African former Government of the crimes it committed against the ethnic population there. We also cannot absolve the Egyptians who are the second biggest supplier of arms. The French are the next biggest suppliers and the Americans would be next in line except for the fact that they are owed money from that area and will not supply arms except on a cash basis. America's principle is that it has not been paid for what it has supplied in the past, therefore it will not supply any more unless it is paid in the future.

It is nonsense to have a general debate on foreign affairs because we could spend ten minutes on each Continent, five minutes on each city and a quarter of an hour on each country. We should have a focused debate on specific current problems rather than trying to have a general discussion on foreign affairs. At a later date someone might suggest a debate on Rwanda, Burundi or the former Yugoslavia only to be told we already had statements on foreign affairs. That should not happen.

A summit on development was held recently in Copenhagen and this will be followed by a summit in Beijing at the end of this year. The Government in Copenhagen decided to give $17 million to overseas development aid in 1995. However, of this amount $11 million was used to organise the conference which people from every country in the world attended. World leaders spent 20 minutes during the plenary sessions speaking about their aspirations for social development in the next decade.

The cost of bringing some of those people to the conference would have to be seen to be believed. Mrs. Hillary Clinton attended on women's day and, as a sop to the women of the world, she decided that the American people would give $10 million over the next ten years to developing countries as its contribution to women's day and the world summit. A number of people travelled with her to the conference. It probably cost approximately $3 million to get her from the United States to Copenhagen and a further $1 million for her security staff. America's net contribution to social development over the next ten years would, therefore, be nil, although $1 million dollars a year was promised.

It is difficult to focus one's thoughts on this debate. Poverty is a Third World problem. There is no real poverty in this country or on the Continent. Poverty affects women and children because of the lack of opportunity in various countries for educational, medical and human development facilities. Once a woman in a Third World country reaches puberty she becomes a chattel and part of the economy; she is no longer a child. In trying to address the question of poverty in the world, we must address the education of women and their use in the world's economy.

People should be aware of what is happening in the world in 1995. We have television, radio, multimedia and the Internet. However, when watching television one uses two senses, sight and hearing. One can hear and see, but one cannot smell. If people could smell poverty on television the sets would be turned off immediately, because there is nothing as bad as the smell of poverty. Seeing and listening to poverty is one thing, but the smell of poverty is something one has to experience before one knows what poverty is.

The Middle East is one of the major problems in the world today. The leaders of the Palestinians and the Israelis came together on the lawn of the White House. The whole world looked at that ceremony and thought it marked the end of the problem. Nearly every country in the world promised material goods and money, that they would get involved in the rebuilding of Palestine and would continue to help Israel. Everybody shook hands and went away gratified that this was the end of the problem in that area.

What has happened since? There has been a rise in extremism in Israel and in the former and present occupied territories. This is because no money has come through. Japan, the EU and America have not kept the promises they made. As a result the Palestinian economy has worsened. If the money which was promised is not given the situation in the Middle East will be even worse than it was before the leaders met on the lawn of the White House because the people who fought for what we would call a European type of democracy will be eliminated from the scene and the extremists on both the Palestinian and Israeli sides will take over. Unfortunately, the Middle East problem has been put on the back burner of politics, as it has been over the past score years. The international community has decided that it has sorted out the situation.

The same type of situation is emerging in the former Yugoslavia, where there will be a continuation of people fighting each other for religious and ethnic reasons. We cannot allow the international community to shake hands in public and put their hands behind their backs in private. If some members of the international community promise something and do not come up with it, other members of that community should tell them they did not fulfil the promises they made on the lawn of the White House or wherever. I appeal to the people who were involved in the beginning of the talks about the Middle East to again get together and ask the international community to get involved, as it promised to do, in that area to see if there can be a resolution of the problems there.

In 1996 there will be a review of the Maastricht Treaty. We will have to decide whether we want to become involved in a defence union or pact in the EU. The debate is beginning to focus on the meaning of neutrality and the position Ireland should take on its neutrality. It is beginning to focus on whether our neutrality in the past was good or bad. The Irish people will have to face in the next few years a decision on whether to join a major power bloc or whether to remain neutral. I think we will have to adopt a position in between.

Neutrality is part of the raison d'être of other countries in Europe. With them we will have to say that as small countries we do not want to be sucked into any major international, European or pan-European defence mechanism. We will have to debate this very carefully over the next few years. We cannot just say neutrality was good enough for us in 1940 and will be good enough for us in 2020. My opinion is that we should not join any power play. We should not be involved in the power play of the Western European Union or NATO. We could be a member of a group of powerful small nations which would be nonaligned, not as some countries in Africa are, but in relation to power pacts.

The Irish people will have to look very carefully over the next 18 months at where we stand on defence and aggression in terms of power pacts. A number of people are trying to suck us into power blocs such as the Western European Union, NATO and the OSCE. I do not want to be sucked into anything. We are strong enough as an independent nation to dictate our own efforts in terms of our defence and we have proven in the past that we can go to the defence, through the United Nations, of other small nations under threat from bigger nations or tyranny of one kind or another.

The Army has come in for a great deal of scrutiny over recent months from the efficiency audit group.

Years rather than months.

Yesterday somebody suggested the last Government had the group's report last year. We did not have it then. The present Government has it and is leaking it like a sieve to everybody, but will not come to the Houses of the Oireachtas with it so that we can see it. If we talk about foreign affairs we must speak about our Defence Forces and the role they have played in peacekeeping abroad. If the efficiency audit group talks about reducing numbers there could be a situation in which the Army will be unable to adapt to the role of defenders of Ireland if we are attacked, to get involved in providing assistance to the civil authority when money is being transferred throughout the country, to act as defenders of the civil authority through supporting prison officers and to go abroad on United Nations operations. However, I would prefer it to be involved in United Nations operations such as UNIFIL rather than in operations such as those that occurred in Somalia and other places.

It is difficult to focus a debate on foreign affairs if the debate is left wide open. I would prefer a focused debate on specific foreign affairs issues. If we intend to talk about foreign affairs we must talk about the increasing number of ethnic and local wars that are taking place throughout the world. We must talk about poverty and whether we in the west are prepared to share a little with the Third World. We must talk about whether we are prepared to give women the place in society of which they have been obviously deprived. If we do not give women their rightful place in society hunger and deprivation will follow.

I welcome the opportunity to debate foreign affairs. Ireland should not in the future become part of any power block. We must ensure that no member of the European Union is allowed to supply arms as the French have done in Rwanda and Burundi. If we are members of the European Union we must abhor such actions by the French. We must not stand with these people when they talk about the problems in Africa. The French are raping Africa at present, although they are no worse or no stronger than other European countries were in the past.

The Government must also continue to put pressure on the Spaniards, who are raping our present and future fisheries. France and Spain are two members of the EU who are creating atrocious problems. One can ramble around the world during a debate on foreign affairs. I sincerely hope that the next debate on foreign affairs will be focused on a specific issue rather than consisting of general statements, although I welcome the opportunity to make such statements.

A debate of this nature should be focused. I will operate within a focus that represents one element, albeit an important element, of our foreign policy — the European Union. Through my statement I hope to develop some themes that might extend into the broader area of foreign policy. I welcome this opportunity to make what I hope will be reasonably balanced and reflective comments on our present position.

The major theme within the European Union at present is developments in the Treaty of European Union. The Council of Foreign Ministers' report on the functioning of the Treaty on European Union is factual and consensual. It represents a base from which we can proceed. The question that remains to be pursued is the implementation of the recommendations of that report. Analysis without implementation will cause considerable frustration and disillusionment. It is important that we do not fall into that trap. The report displays a welcome sense of realism and pragmatism among member states. It shows a strong appreciation of the sensitivity and complexity of the issues that will arise at the inter-governmental conference on the future of the European Union.

In accordance with the Treaty provisions the Intergovernmental Conference will open in 1996. That will have huge significance for Ireland because this country will hold the Presidency of the European Union in that year. The Irish Presidency is a great opportunity for the Irish Government and people. I hope it will devote the highest possible priority to advancing the work of the Inter-Governmental Conference. It has been acknowledged over the years since our accession to the European Union that Ireland has always played a positive European role during our Presidencies. While we understandably have a first priority of looking to our national interest — and what small country would not? — we have also been recognised as being capable, because of our European commitment, of taking the broader view and of advancing the common cause. It is important to recall some points from our involvement since accession to demonstrate the significance of the role played by succeeding Irish Presidencies. I will be forgiven for referring to those with which I was most familiar when I served as Minister for Foreign Affairs and as Commissioner.

The European Monetary System, which was the beginning of the co-ordination of economic and monetary policy, was greatly advanced during our Presidency subsequent to the Bremen conference. It was a major factor in laying the basis for the economic and monetary union which is now the target of the European Union. We were respected and recognised for that contribution. It would be entirely consistent for the Government of the day during the next Presidency to ensure that we have this European centred role in mind. Our first priority should be our partners in Europe and the development of the European Union with which we are so inextricably involved and to which our destiny in the future is so clearly related.

Our overall approach to this InterGovernmental Conference should be that the present delicate balance under the Treaty between the member states and the institutions — the Commission and the Parliament — should be broadly preserved because it has served the union well. This is the balance which was created by the great founding fathers, with the foresight they had acquired after the awful holocaust and catastrophe of the last war, about which we are more mindful at present as we celebrate, 50 years later, VE day and the liberation of peoples who were subjected to horrific fascist oppression, suffering and mutilation. It is significant that the founding fathers included some of the great patriots from the Federal Republic of Germany such as Adenauer, in addition to other European statesmen such as Spaak, de Gasperi and Schuman. They saw the need, if they were to ensure that Europe could never again be engulfed in war between its nations, to develop a unique institutional framework — the Commission which, effectively, was the executive of Europe, independent of Governments, taking the collective European view as initiators of policies which would have to be adopted and sanctioned by Governments through the Council of Ministers. The Governments, therefore, are not the initiators in the EU, and this is an important distinction which should not only be maintained but enhanced.

For this reason, the negotiations should be based broadly on the present treaty texts and on what is termed the acquis communitaire, the corpus of laws, regulations and decisions which form the construction and foundation of the EU in which we are all so deeply involved. The treaties need to be overhauled to bring them up to date. It would be strange if this were not so when they are based on the original Coal and Steel Pact and the Treaty of Rome of the 1950s, which established a community of six. This became nine upon our accession and that of Great Britain and Denmark and is now 15 with the accession of other countries, most recently Sweden, Austria and Finland. It will expand even further in the years ahead.

The framework, therefore, clearly needs to be revised to take account of the different EU from the EEC which we joined in 1973. In considering developments for the future, we must ensure that if we overhaul the treaties to bring them up to date, we make them more transparent and immediately amenable to the citizens and member states of the EU. Even now, with 15 member states, there is a distancing of the peoples of the EU from the centre in the Commission and the Council of Ministers. They do not get involved in decision making and sometimes feel frustrated by what they do not understand. They certainly feel frustrated by the failure of the EU, from time to time, to address the real problems that impact on communities in our own countries.

In this respect, I instance the problem, referred to by Senator Lanigan, of the depredation of our fishing grounds by a member state — Spain. This is of huge implication for this island country. As it is concerned only with internal issues within the EU we must be able to find a resolution and a way of ensuring that this unacceptable depredation of the fishing stocks of the EU in general cannot be tolerated as being consistent with membership of a union.

For this reason I would welcome proposals designed to preserve the efficiency of the union while ensuring that the balance between the member states and institutions is preserved. It is important that the role of the Commission under the treaties should not be diluted. The Commission has always been the guardian and custodian of the treaties, but because of its independence under the original Treaty of Rome it is also specifically charged with protecting and enhancing the rights of all member states, especially the smaller member states.

There are one or two areas where major problems would follow if some ideas now being floated were to be pursued in the context of the new Intergovernmental conference report. Both as Commissioner and Minister for Foreign Affairs, I am familiar with at least five different reports conducted by experts engaged at the instigation of the European Council of the Heads of Governments. Perhaps the best known report was that proposed at the Dublin European Council in 1979 which gave rise to what was termed les trois sages, three eminent Europeans from member states, recognised for their independence and commitment to Europe.

Significantly, in the light of some comments being made about the representation of smaller member states at the Commission, the report of the three wise men, and many other internal, significant and expert reports of the Commission, for example, the Tindemanns report, all had one common feature — not the central theme, it must be acknowledged — in that they recommended that there should be one Commissioner for each member state. The idea that the bigger countries would have two Commissioners, which has been the practice and is still adhered to, was unacceptable by any objective standards of partnership and community in a union. Despite this consistent theme, the European Council never at any stage, having sought these reports, attempted to implement this conclusion, which was there to vindicate the Commission in its independence and the balance between the smaller and bigger member states. Instead, the idea has now been floated — it is not a formal proposal — that the smaller countries, such as Ireland, should share a commissionership on a rota basis. This would mean that at the executive core of the EU, there would not be an Irish voice to formulate, implement and direct policy, which is the essential core purpose of the Commission. That kind of inconsistency is unacceptable. I hope that during our Presidency we will ensure — and there will be many allies in this cause — that any such proposal to dilute the role of Commissioners or our entitlement to representation in the Commission will be cast aside and immediately rejected as being inconsistent with the whole role and raison d'être of the Community. It is equally totally at odds with every report by objective independent experts. The libraries of the Commission and the Council of Ministers are full of reports which say that there should be only one Commissioner for each member state. That is an illustration of the type of determination which we must have to ensure that these notions will not be translated into fact, much less into regulations.

Every Irish person, every Danish, Belgian, Dutch and Italian person, and every honest French, German and British person who have seen our performance at all levels in the European Union would acknowledge that small countries such as this should continue to have a voice at the table where Community legislation is initiated. Otherwise, the risk will be that the dominant forces at the centre will inevitably, even without deliberately setting out to do so, give a different direction to the decisions and recommendations of the Commission.

With regard to the voting weights on the Council, I do not see any a priori reason, at this point for a dilution of the voting rights of the small member states in the interests of what is called the enhanced demographic balance in the Council. The recent enlargement, like all enlargements, has diluted the voting strengths of all member states, which is understandable and right. We must take account of the accession of others and in so doing reduce the voting weights of every member state, but not have a deliberate policy to reduce the voting strengths, particularly the proportionate voting strengths, of the smaller member states. I can say in my own experience as a Minister — I hate to acknowledge how long ago it is since I first served on the Council of Ministers in 1972——

The Senator has a lot of years left.

I hope so and that I have not all my future behind me at this point. I served on at least eight Councils — Transport, Foreign Affairs, Finance, Agriculture, Labour, Social Affairs and ECOFIN. At no point did the small member states vote en bloc as a single group to try to in any way insist that their role would be separately enhanced at the expense of respect for the larger member states. The furthest we went on occasions — and it was a useful practice — was that we would meet informally for breakfast meetings, mostly to analyse how we could help to resolve conflicts between the larger member states. One of the most stimulating experiences I had was in those early morning discussions with the Belgians, Dutch and Danes where we tried to find, and did find, common ground which enabled an impasse between either Germany and France or France and Britain to be resolved on the basis of proposals which we were able to put forward. That is the significant role which smaller member states can and have achieved.

Equally, it would be foolish to overlook the impact on the world outside of the small member states during our Presidencies of the EU. I was privileged to witness this in connection with relations with developing countries in the Lomé Convention. The first Lomé Convention was negotiated and signed by my predecessor as Minister for Foreign Affairs, Garret FitzGerald. He did a remarkable job in achieving that breakthrough. At that time the 52 member states of the African, Caribbean and Pacific countries — they are now very much in our minds for a variety of good and, unfortunately, tragic reasons because of the developments in Rwanda, Somalia and so many other unfortunate experiences of recent times — all warmly and enthusiastically involved themselves in the Lomé negotiations and the Lomé Convention, particularly because of the fellow feeling which they had with this small country which, like them, had had a sad colonial experience. The only difference between us was that ours lasted for hundreds of years longer than theirs did.

I was the President of the Council for the renegotiation in 1979 of the Lomé Convention, which was, if anything, more sensitive and difficult than the original negotiation, as the 62 ACP countries, understandably, wanted to build on what they had and get more. They were, properly, more demanding, but equally sometimes demanding much more than our partners in the European Community were prepared to concede. It was because of our shared experience that we could bring about a resolution in the final crunch negotiations between partners who had drifted apart. There is still a residual feeling of tension and distrust between many of the former colonies and the colonial powers who are now our partners in the European Union. We bridged that gap. That is going to become a much bigger issue in the future than it has in the past. That is another very strong reason — not because Ireland needs it but because Europe and the world needs it — for not diluting the role and function of the smaller member states.

For that reason we support the development of transparency in the Union. I hope that we will be able to demonstrate above all else that in developing that transparency, the role and function of a small country such as Ireland and other small countries will not only be respected but retained and enhanced as being crucial to the development of the European Union.

The issues which will dominate Ireland's Presidency of the European Union in the second half of 1996 can only be identified broadly at this stage, as they may change because of evolution which will occur in the meantime. First, there is the Intergovernmental Conference, to which I have already referred, which is likely to be in place for the duration of our Presidency. Fortunately, we have a most competent and professional corps of public servants in the Department of Foreign Affairs and all other Departments. I am sure that their contributions to past Presidencies will be reflected in the contribution which they will make to the 1996 Presidency.

The issues with which we in Ireland are very much preoccupied are those of growth, competitiveness, employment and common action for economic recovery. They will, and must, feature prominently in the 1996 Intergovernmental Conference. With Ireland involved at the core centre, we can ensure, not just in our interest but also in that of cohesion in the European Union, that those issues, without which there is no justification for these economic policies, will be dealt with. They mean nothing unless they mean employment, dignity and security for our citizens, from Apulia in Italy to John O' Groats in Scotland. There will also have to be an intensified multilateral surveillance of a kind that has not been evident in the present Union, which is currently much smaller than it will be post-1996.

The decision to move to the third stage of Economic and Monetary Union must be taken not later than 31 December 1996. The elements involved in that decision are huge. So far we have not set about laying the base for harmonisation in terms of taxation and fiscal policy. We have the guidelines, but have not been laying the base to achieve it. If we are to have a truly open trading economy throughout the European Union, from Vienna to Donegal and from Oslo to the south of Greece, we must ensure that all the barriers to trade are dismantled. These operate particularly against the smaller countries like Ireland, who are — at least geographically — at the periphery of the Union. They are not currently being dismantled, either consistently or efficiently, at the rate and pattern required.

If we look at the issues that affect everyone in our community, from remote mountain villages in Ireland and Greece to huge cities in Germany, there are, unfortunately, a few constant themes. One of these themes, different though it may seem because of its disparate experience and background, is the growth of crime and the reasons for that growth. Old people, whether from Tuscany, Tipperary or any other part of the European Union, who have the right to demand the most fundamental right of all, the right to security in their homes, find themselves most vulnerable there. Policies and politics are not always about the great meetings, ceremonies and pomp that are given full focus by heads of Government. They mean nothing — I have been privileged to have been involved in a number of them — unless the decisions taken there have as their first priority the wellbeing, security and welfare of every person, especially the most dependent and vulnerable.

I agree with the view that the Union, as it develops and enhances, has a major opportunity to find, identify, recognise and promote the role of women in our communities and public actions throughout Europe. Anyone looking at the current European Union institutions — the Commission, the Council or the Parliament, much less in its lower administration — will notice by comparison with our own experience that women who have a major role to play are not given that opportunity under the European development we have seen in recent years. Women would especially want to advance the priorities of family, children, dependants and the needy, and this has always been a characteristic of their involvement in public life. It is absolutely essential therefore that, in the interests of harmony and stability, we should pioneer that priority. It is a great opportunity for the Irish Presidency to focus especially on Europe des Femmes. We used to refer to the Europe des Patries of the member states, but it is time that we also recognised that the vital contribution women can make has not been recognised, much less developed, under the existing European Union. The Irish Presidency has a great opportunity of advancing that concept.

Look at organised crime and the spread of the contagion of drugs which did not exist when we joined the European Community. I was a junior Minister at that point, subsequently came into full Government within a matter of three months and attended a full Council of Ministers meeting. It is now time to have a co-ordinated approach, not only to analyse the cause of these policies but to set in place a range of programmes that will eradicate the base of that contagion and, where necessary, introduce common action to, first, protect our communities, countries and society and, subsequently, to take a progressive rather than a reactive view to the kind of policies that will ensure that this contagion, which is undermining the society of every country, will not contaminate our homes, communities and particularly our young people in the manner in which it has done in recent times. I do not intend to turn this debate into one on drugs beyond pointing out some of the issues that will feature prominently during our Presidency.

We will also have to look at the changing role of the European Parliament which will be enlarged considerably to embrace the new member states. However, any Parliament is, of course, limited in many ways in its capacity to be effective, and in some instances by the sheer weight of numbers in that Parliament. We have a tight and cohesive arrangement in these Houses, especially in this House. Our relationship has a common purpose and a sense of feeling for the institution in which we are privileged to serve. This helps us to discharge our responsibility. However, the European Parliament is now expanding and enlarging to a point that its capacity will have to be reviewed, either through strengthening its committees or in developing a new and effective working relationship with the Council and the Commission. If this is not done, I am afraid it will only be seen as a place where our directly elected members go for a while to Strasbourg, Brussels or Luxembourg. We hear little about what is happening there until it comes to an election — I do not blame members for this — when they do their best to promote what they have achieved.

If the European Parliament is to mean anything, it must be seen to be immediately answerable to immediate and constant need, whether in education, employment, social stability or the range of issues about which all of us in this country and elsewhere are concerned. The Parliament will have to be much more relevant in the future than it has been in the past.

We must look at the further development of relations with the countries of central and eastern Europe with a view to the accession that they also have in mind. In my own time as Minister for Foreign Affairs, and subsequently as a member of the Commission, one tended to use the word "Europe" as being synonymous with the European Community. That, of course, was a presumption which was quite offensive to all those other countries who are very much part of Europe. We used that term to mean member states of the European Communities. Now we have to recognise that Europe extends to Austria and will extend perhaps into Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania and so many other countries that are at the centre of the European Continent but which are still looked upon by us as being outside our Europe. Although the enlargement of the Community may cause certain problems for us and the resources available for Ireland may be limited, we could not and will not take the negative defensive view that now that we are members no other countries may join. I know that Ireland will not allow any such notion to gain currency during our Presidency.

I wish to touch on some of the less commendable aspects of the European Union and of some of the member states. It is one of the great scandals of our time that some of our partners — I hesitate to use the word partner in this context — have been at the root of so much of the suffering of people in places such as Rwanda, Burundi and Somalia in the cause of developing and expanding the European armaments industry. The arms supplied by our partners are used to mutilate, kill and impose intolerable suffering which shocks us when we see it on television.

Senator Lanigan has rightly said that seeing this suffering on television shocks the viewer. To see it first hand is horrible, but the smell of death which one experiences in these war torn areas is unspeakable. I have seen only one small trace of it and in a sense my experience has been totally inadequate. To truly understand, it would be necessary to be at the scene, as we have seen recently with the exposure of the awful suffering endured in the concentration camps at Belsen and Auschwitz during World War II. To understand we would each need to be present like so many of our wonderful volunteers from Trócaire, Concern and Goal. We as public representatives would do well to visit these areas. Perhaps members of our policy committees, and in particular the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, would go out, not as observers but with the purpose of involving ourselves, for as long as we are allowed by our Governments, so as to get the stench of that suffering.

On the Order of Business this morning it was not certain what time this debate would commence. It was intended that it would last two hours, and then be adjourned. If the debate has not concluded by 6.15 p.m. it is to be suspended with the agreement of the House.

Of course.

It will be adjourned until another day.

The Leader of the House has acted with his usual courtesy and consideration. I will conclude before the adjournment of this debate.

I was referring to the armaments industry. It is one of the great scandals of the European Union that we have not even attempted to prevent our partners from engaging in this unspeakable trade of dealing in death for the sake of their own technology in the armaments industry. There is always a sense of helplessness when we try to respond to these awful problems that could not have been perpetrated without the contributions of some of our partners. Some of our European partners, I do not propose to name them, are supplying both sides in these conflicts to ensure that the suffering and human misery continues — purely to profit the businessmen and Governments involved in the armament industries of Europe. I am not suggesting that they are the only countries involved. Of course they are not. Some of the African countries, unfortunately, are involved in supplying the arms that are bought from our partners and other countries outside the European Union.

The Irish voice must be heard more loudly, strongly and effectively than it has been to expose the wickedness of partners who would gain profit from the suffering and misery of people who did not start with the privileges of wealth and security that we enjoy. The new European Union and the Intergovernmental Conference should focus on that major issue. I hope that under the Irish Presidency we will focus on it. We have a particular right because of the very special relationships we have built up with the African, Caribbean and the Pacific countries through our involvement in the Lomé Conventions. Our own people expect no less of us. Their generous response to these tragedies requires our Government, but more importantly the European Union, to take action to reduce profiteering from arms at the expense of others.

The European Union should develop further strength in the area of the control and co-ordination of international banking practices. In recent times there has been a tendency to set up tax havens for people avoiding if not evading their tax responsibility to citizens in their own member states. We have to be very careful about the development of the concept of bank accounts the contents of which are not subject to proper tax in the account holder's country. No questions are asked, no information is given. That kind of selfish approach is bound to give rise to problems. The assistance provided by the Swiss banking system and the establishment of the banking world is a scandal. It involves numbered accounts and questions are not asked about the source of the money in them and whether it was gained through bribery or corruption. The dictators of the world have found a safe haven in secure vaults in Switzerland for their ill-gotten gains, which they have creamed off the backs of their miserable people. It is time this scandal was exposed. We have an obligation to the people of South America and elsewhere to ensure that no oppressive dictator, whether in Haiti or Manila, will find a secure haven for his ill-gotten billions.

One should see the style and swagger of these dictators at international conferences. Countries which have greater wealth but also a greater sense of responsibility do not display their vulgar wealth in the fashion of some of these dictators at UN conferences. The lack of control in the international banking system has been one of the main causes of this problem.

This area poses a great challenge to the European Union, particularly in the context of common positions which are taken at the IMF and the UN. This problem is a reality and most of the billions being made in the very profitable drugs trade are stashed away in secret vaults in various tax havens. How long will we stay silent on this scandal? Ireland has a small voice on its own, but it can be a powerful voice in the context of Europe. I hope this move will be considered.

In relation to Ireland's role in security matters, independence has served both this country and the European Union well. I have spoken to Ministers from many of the applicant countries, including Sweden, Austria and Finland — which I will visit again soon — and they considered the example of Ireland as the guarantee underwriting the fact that their countries could have full EU membership and still retain their independence and neutrality.

Things change from time to time and the neutrality which was a feature of the war period has changed considerably. We now have a different sense of threat, not just from countries but from insidious elements within countries. It is possible for Ireland to examine with our European partners the role we can play in dealing with these insidious elements without compromising our neutrality. Common action to deal with drugs and organised crime is vital. We are not neutral on criminality and never will be.

If a common position is taken with regard to countries on the European Continent, such as Bosnia, I would be in favour of Ireland playing a role as European Union peace-keepers, not just as independent representatives. We can play a significant role in the new dimension which did not exist previously and in which we have never served.

As Foreign Minister, I vigorously and without qualification took part in discussions at the Council of Ministers' conference on security and co-operation, or the Helsinki process as it was known. I was not afraid to get involved in discussions where the word security was used because we were building confidence boosting measures which would reduce tensions and ensure a transparent reduction of armaments.

Our neutrality is not such that it prevents our discussing armaments, even in the context of reducing them. This would be a very negative, blind and ineffective neutrality which would never be consistent with the role we want to have in the future. There is great scope to examine all these areas in redefining the application of our independence and neutrality within the EU.

With regard to practical administration, Ireland is perhaps the only EU member state which did not insist on the use of our beautiful language, a Chathaoirligh, atá go líofa agat fhéin agus atá níos airde ná aon teanga eile san Eoraip, as a working language. I am happy to say that I regularly used Irish at the Commission, although I had to translate it myself. I am even happier to say that all my colleagues looked forward to hearing the sound of our beautiful language. They felt it was part of our common inheritance in Europe and I hope we will still have the opportunity to use it, within reasonable constraint. However, since we conceded that Irish should not be a working language, many of our partners, who are about to accede, should also make the same concession, while at the same time making no compromise on the fact that it is an essential part of their culture which we respect.

If we reach the point where every language must be translated in every document, the EU will grind to a halt under the sheer burden of linguistic administration. This is not something anybody would wish to happen. At this point, almost 70 per cent of those based in EU institutions, as distinct from Ministers, parliamentarians and Commissioners, are engaged in linguistics or specialised linguistic translations. It takes an enormous amount of time to translate documents from Greek into Danish, Portuguese etc.

People thought we were just defending the cause of our fanners during the many late nights we spent at the Council of Agriculture Ministers. We were defending their cause, but the main reason for those late nights was the fact that we had to wait up to two and a half hours for documents to be translated into every language. If we reached agreement at 2.30 a.m., we had to wait until 4.30 a.m. for the final document. How long can this situation continue?

Nobody loves language and culture more than I. I speak several languages, although not with the fluency I would wish. I love the distinction and colour of language, even in different parts of Ireland. This is what makes things so interesting and vital. However, in terms of the practical and efficient organisation of the EU, we must reduce the number of working languages to four at most. We will then have a much more efficient and less costly system. This is another part of the contribution Ireland can make, particularly during its Presidency. We are a romantic people, but we are also pragmatic.

I am glad to have the opportunity of saying a few words on the experiences I had last summer during August and early September when I worked as a volunteer with the Concern organisation helping the Rwandan refugees.

Hear, hear.

I arrived in Goma in early August and everybody in this room will remember the incredibly gory and horrific television pictures of dead bodies lying all over the place in their thousands. By the time I arrived the agencies had moved in and had the situation under control, having succeeded in getting water supplies for the refugees. That brought an end to the terrible cholera problem.

When I arrived in Goma I asked if I could visit the nearest camp and I was granted permission to visit it about eight kilometres outside the town. On the way to the camp in a truck I was struck by the huge numbers of people moving back and forth on the roadway. At regular intervals I noticed rolls of canvas material by the roadside which I later discovered contained dead bodies. They were all left on the side of the road for collection like we would leave out dustbins. It was an incredible experience.

When I arrived in the camp I saw a scene of utter devastation. The huge number of people there had no shelter and little clothing. About 400,000 people were gathered in that single camp, living rough on a rocky terrain with little food. The stench of death was evident. There was no sanitation of any kind and I almost fainted.

After working in Goma for four or five days I moved to another camp in the province of Kitali about 75 kilometres north of Goma. On my way there by truck I saw huge numbers of people looking for bits of firewood or a scrap of something to eat. I saw a dead body lying on a bend in the road. Somebody had obviously attacked this individual with a machete because part of the inside of his skull was visible. I had to order the driver to keep going because we were advised never to stop in such a dangerous situation. For the first time in my life I had passed a dead body on the road and, unfortunately, I was not able to provide any help. It was a terrible shock and I almost got physically ill.

Acting Chairman

I am sorry to interrupt you, Senator Cotter. Your contribution was very interesting.

I would like to tell some more of that story on another occasion.

Acting Chairman

We look forward to hearing it. When is it proposed to sit again?

On Tuesday, 16 May at 2.30 p.m.

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