Given this is an important motion I propose we suspend the normal time limits for speakers in Private Members' Time. However, I ask Members to respect the rights of others to speak.
International Whaling: Motion.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I move:
That Seanad Éireann welcomes the holding of the International Whaling Conference in Dublin; and urges other EU Governments to follow the example of the Irish Government in declaring specified waters to be whale and dolphin sanctuaries.
Over ten years ago the Irish Government chose to become part of the International Whaling Commission. We have established a whale sanctuary in Irish waters. As an EU member we are in a unique position to give an example to other member states with regard to the provision of sanctuaries in their territorial waters. I am delighted the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Michael Higgins, is here as he has a particular interest in this matter. He is concerned about conservation in all forms.
The level of scientific research carried out on whales is limited. If it was not for the International Whaling Commission very little work would have been done. The Irish Wildlife Federation and the Office of Public Works and its Director of the National Parks and Wildlife Service, Mr. Michael Canny, have done good work in Ireland in this regard. It is pleasing for us that the International Whaling Conference is being held in Ireland this year. It provides us with a unique opportunity to use our position to express an opinion and to urge other EU members to follow our example and establish sanctuaries in their territorial waters. I ask the Minister to influence his European ministerial colleagues to follow Ireland's lead on this issue.
The activities of the Faroese Government in killing whales are of great concern. The whale hunt and kill conducted around the Faroe Islands must be condemned. It complies with no standards; it is indiscriminate cruel killing of whales with a disdain for civilised activity. I appeal to the Minister to use the conference in Dublin to publicly condemn the Faroese Government for the manner in which the whale hunt and kill is conducted.
At one time whale hunting was necessary for survival. We must now accept that the Faroese people have a standard of living as good as any in Europe. The Danish Government, to which they are associated, also has a responsibility in this matter. We must call on the Danish and Faroese Governments to end this slaughter, oblige them to sign the convention and become part of the International Whaling Commission.
The manner in which this kill is conducted is cruel in the extreme. Whales are directed by boats into 20 licensed bays and brought into shallow waters. Large metal hooks weighing five pounds are struck into the whales' flesh, ropes are attached and the whales are dragged ashore. Once ashore, knives with six inch blades are dug into the flesh and blubber of the whales and they are killed. Evidence suggests it can take up to 15 minutes for the whales to die. It is a cruel, uncivilised activity which is not necessary for survival. Any argument that it is essential to the economy or the survival of the islands is not true; it is a false premise on which to make a case.
The Minister should condemn publicly the manner of the kill. It is not a selective culling of specific whales but an indiscriminate killing, regardless of type or age, or whether they are lactating whales or calves. This incredible procedure is taking place about 200 miles outside our territorial waters. Many of these whales migrate from our waters to the area around the Faroe Islands and are trapped and killed. That is unacceptable.
We should be proud that some years ago the Government signed the convention and established a sanctuary in Irish waters. It is one of the good conservation measures we have taken. We should fully support all the international efforts for a full scientific research on the world whale population and their activities.
We must continue to resist strongly the attempts by Japan and Norway to reintroduce commercial whaling. Ireland supported the ban on commercial whaling in 1986 and we have consistently supported it at various conferences. It is important that we continue to support the ban until proper scientific research and analysis are carried out. Strong commercial arguments will be put forward by Japan, in particular, and by Norway to reintroduce commercial whaling, which should not be supported until that scientific research and data is available. It would be foolish to do otherwise. I urge the Minister to ensure that that stand is taken by our Commissioner when he attends the convention.
Research on Faroese women has shown that they carry ten times more PCBs in their milk than women in Sweden. This could possibly be because of the amount of whale meat eaten by the Faroese. The Faroese health department is monitoring the effects of these and other pollutants on children. The health of women and children in the Faroe Islands should be examined.
Whales are affected by hunting and also by pollution, which affects all sea life, illegal fishing and the use of illegal nets. The fact that whales are subject to other dangers in addition to the hunt must also be taken into consideration. I urge the Minister to continue to support the moratorium on commercial whaling. I ask him to condemn the methods used and the indiscriminate killing of whales regardless of age, whether they are calves or lactating females.
The Environmental Investigation Agency must be complimented on the good work it has done since its establishment in 1984. I am delighted Jennifer Lonsdale is here this evening. It has done considerable undercover investigation into wildlife abuse and it has launched hard hitting case campaigns internationally, which have been successful. Possibly the most successful of these has been the campaign to ban the international ivory trade. We must be conscious and aware of damage to our environment. Nature takes its course and if we damage one aspect of it, it automatically has an effect on other areas. It is important to understand that and to do everything possible to ensure that the natural order is maintained.
We have an opportunity to utilise our whale sanctuary and to highlight its advantages. It is unique and perhaps it could be used as a tourist attraction, although perhaps the Minister does not like zoning in too much on the tourism aspect. We have seen how the dolphin has affected Dingle. In my area in Carrigaholt, dolphins swim up the Shannon and are becoming an attraction.
Those from coastal counties will have seen small and large whales beached on shores and on platform rocks along the coast. Perhaps this is an opportunity for the Minister or the Minister for the Marine to do scientific investigation into whale life around the coast, because we do not know much about the type and numbers of whales which live in Irish waters. In recent years a number of whales have been beached along the coast in my constituency, including calves and large whales — one of the largest was beached in Fanore three years ago. It would be interesting to know the whale population around our coast. As this is the only country in Europe with a whale sanctuary, we should utilise it for tourism purposes. If we knew the location of whales, whalewatching could become a tourism feature for coastal counties.
I hope Members will support this motion, particularly the Opposition and Senator Fitzgerald. It is to be commended. I welcome the fact that the international whaling conference is being held in Dublin. I hope it will use the opportunity to highlight the importance of the ban on whaling, of establishing whale sanctuaries in waters around the coasts of member states and of doing necessary research. It is important that the International Environmental Agency is assisted in doing necessary research and in getting data. The work it has done over the years is commendable and I wish it every success in the future. I wish the conference well and I hope the outcome of its deliberations will further highlight the importance of the whale population and of protecting and appreciating this unique species.
I second the motion. I welcome the opportunity to make a contribution to this debate. Approximately three months ago, when I asked the Leader of the House if we could have statements or a motion on whaling, he was more than willing to comply. I am delighted the Minister is here and that he has taken such an interest in this. Sean-chara liom is ea an Teachta Ó hUigín agus tá fáilte roimhe go dtí on Teach.
I asked for a debate because this is the European Nature Conservation Year and the 47th annual meeting of the International Whaling Commission is being held in Ireland. It will take place for a month and people with scientific knowledge will discuss protection, etc. Both Houses have an opportunity to acknowledge what these people have done for whales, dolphins and porpoises, which were once in abundance. I am not a specialist on whales and I would love to know more about them than what I read in books. I was a fisherman for 17 years and on a couple of occasions I saw two or three whales in the distance. I also saw two dead whales west of the Blasket Islands. I reported this to a friend who, in turn, reported it to the Whale Watch Society in Ireland.
About a month or six weeks ago a shoal of dolphins arrived in Ballydavid, County Kerry, and remained there for two or three weeks. People said this was a sign of great weather and the following week we had a heat wave. I wish they had stayed there. They created great excitement and fishermen who normally went fishing watched the dolphins in the harbour. I am not sure if the Minister has seen Fungi, but he can be my guest the next time he is in Dingle.
I will send him a Christmas card.
I am worried that Fungi is overexploited. I understand how a young lion or tiger could be trained as pets, but it is strange that this dolphin, a mammal, loves the company of people and that he can distinguish between males and females in the water. People from the Dolphin Society have visited Dingle and they are happy with the way he has been treated; no one is doing him any harm.
There is a great sense of safety in Dingle because there is a superstition — we call it a piseog — that no lives will be lost while there is a dolphin in the harbour. No lives were lost in the port since the dolphin arrived, although two boats sank last year. Perhaps there is some truth in that superstition. We hope the dolphin stays there for a long time and that people will learn to protect his environment. He has taught the people of Dingle a thing or two about the environment. He acts as a watchdog because whenever the water becomes dirty or polluted, he moves out.
Approximately ten years ago a great film was made called "The Seas Must Live". I wish RTE would show it again because it highlighted the fact that if the seas did not live, neither would we. We are not careful about protecting our seas or enforcing our laws. We are lucky that oil can float because if it sank to the bottom of the sea everything would have died years ago. I welcome those who are attending the 47th conference and I wish them well in their deliberations. I hope their meeting is well publicised so that people will learn more about what is happening.
Senator Taylor-Quinn said that in June 1991 the then Taoiseach, Mr. Charles Haughey, declared that the waters under our jurisdiction would become a whale and dolphin sanctuary. This is the only country in Europe with such a sanctuary. This is an opportunity to call on our EU partners to make their waters a whale and dolphin sanctuary as well. I support the International Whaling Commission and I sent it a subscription as soon as I saw its advertisement in the newspaper yesterday, which read: "Get your bloody hands off our whales, Norway!".
Senator Taylor-Quinn mentioned the methods used to kill whales. We should also call for the killing of dolphins to stop. I watch a number of wildlife films and in the year in which a film on dolphins was made 60,000 were killed for human consumption in Japan. These mammals are doing no harm and if this killing continues, many of these species will become extinct.
In 1982 the International Whaling Commission decided at its convention that commercial whaling would be set at zero by 1986, which is almost ten years ago. It amazes me that some countries continue to kill whales for scientific purposes. They could be shamed into stopping this needless killing if small countries in the EU put pressure on them. This year Norway has a licence to kill over 300 whales. Although the number was reduced, it is now being increased again. Is this situation being monitored properly? Is it similar to other illegal fishing carried out under the guise of law and order?
A clear message must be conveyed by unanimous support for the motion. Some Senators will recall that three or four years ago I took an unpopular step in the House when I called for the banning of strychnine which was being used extensively, in a crazy sort of manner, to kill foxes. I received the full support of the House and shortly afterwards strychnine was banned in the country, except for some small amounts which are used for medical purposes. Since the ban, nothing has been said about a plague of foxes. We appear to have controlled the foxes without the use of strychnine. The sheep and lamb populations are healthy and growing. I thank those who supported me in calling for the banning of strychnine. Perhaps we should now take another unpopular step and bluntly and plainly tell the countries which are needlessly exploiting and killing these whales to stop, once and for all.
We support the ideals of the people trying to protect the whales, the International Whaling Commission and those who have taken the trouble to visit Ireland to attend its annual meeting. If the Minister, with his responsibility for nature, culture and wildlife, calls for support to end the needless killing of whales, we on this side of the House will support him. He should also call on the rest of Europe and other countries with waters under their jurisdiction to make them whale and dolphin sanctuaries.
I thank the Leader of the House for allowing the motion which we are proud to support. Hopefully the annual meeting of the International Whaling Commission will be successful. It can be assured the support of the Houses of the Oireachtas.
I welcome the Minister to the House and I support the motion. For many people whales are simply large mammals which live in the water and very little is known about the different varieties of whales. We need to know much more about the lives of whales to understand the urgency of the call by the International Whaling Commission to have specific waters designated as whale and dolphin sanctuaries, as are the waters of Ireland.
Many people do not realise that whales, especially the baleen whales, breed in the temperate and warm equatorial waters in the winter months and feed in the polar waters during summer. There are wide ranging migrations each year between the breeding and feeding areas. Most baleen whales feed for only four or five months in the year when they are in the polar seas, which are especially rich in food. It is often not realised that a large whale will swallow up to two tons of food a day and it builds up a store of energy which forms into a thick layer of blubber under the skin. In previous centuries it was a lucrative source of energy for the primitive peoples living around the Arctic Ocean and in many ways this was the origin of the large scale commercial culling of the whales in search, not of their meat but their oil.
The whales then migrate several thousand miles to their breeding grounds in the warm waters where they pair and mate. The females carry a single young for almost one year. During this time they migrate to the summer polar feeding grounds and then return to calve in the warmer areas. The calf of a blue whale is approximately 23 feet long at birth and weighs approximately 2.5 tons. Pity the mother whale. It feeds on its mother's milk for approximately seven months and the mother then has approximately a five month resting period in her breeding cycle during which she migrates back to the warmer waters where she mates again, two years after the start of the previous pregnancy.
It must be realised that at any time during that period the mother whale is at her most vulnerable. Great care must be taken to study this migration pattern so that future generations of whaling stock can be protected and improved. This is why the widespread and indiscriminate killing of whales, described by Senator Taylor-Quinn, is so barbaric. It makes no distinction between the mother whales, which may be carrying or feeding young, and young whales. All are hoovered into a bay and ruthlessly slaughtered.
An even more efficient, but equally barbaric way of killing whales has now been discovered. It involves shooting the whale with an explosive which explodes on impact, but does not always kill it. Hearing is the most important sense for whales as it is the means by which they navigate and any explosion, even if it falls short of killing, will seriously damage the whale's hearing, rendering it helpless.
In the southern hemisphere whales are now starting to reproduce at an earlier age. Previously they reproduced at ten to 12 years of age; now they do so at six to seven years. This is a reaction to the decimation of their numbers and is nature's way of trying to increase the population. This is why it is so important that other countries support moves to allow whales to return to their natural reproductive cycle and increase their population. In this respect, France has called for the southern Antarctic to be made a whale sanctuary.
If at some point the whale population returns to a more acceptable level and there is a possibility of surplus, as occurs in other species of sea life, there is no reason for not allowing whaling again in countries like Norway which have a tradition of whaling. Until that level is reached, whale killing will decimate the population and we could find ourselves living on an earth which is devoid of our largest mammal.
We must commend the former Taoiseach, Mr. Charles Haughey, for declaring Ireland a whale and dolphin sanctuary in June 1991. It is important that this country, with such a long coastline, has taken this step. Other countries should follow our example. There is no reason why Britain and France should not also declare their coastal waters as whale and dolphin sanctuaries, especially since France is active in calling for a sanctuary in the southern Antarctic Ocean.
As Senator Taylor-Quinn pointed out, there are benefits for any country which pursues this policy. The dolphins feel secure and come to the shore and they are beautiful animals to watch in their natural setting. About 15 years ago I saw what I took to be dolphins — my eyesight is not good — playing off Kerry Head. My children were fascinated by these large animals jumping in and out of the water. This will happen more often in our seas if we continue this policy. Dolphins and whales are animals with a certain amount of intelligence; they know where they are welcome and safe. We can turn this to our advantage and develop it as a tourist attraction.
I lend my support to this motion, which welcomes the conference in Ireland and calls on our fellow EU countries to follow our example in creating whale and dolphin sanctuaries.
I also welcome the Minister and I am sure he is conscious of the interest of Members of the House in the wildlife aspect of his portfolio. It is a great delight that hardly any environmental issue, or even an issue only slightly concerned with the environment, comes before the House without Members insisting on an environmental impact study to see if the project would affect our wildlife. It is good that so many people realise our wildlife is precious and in need of conservation.
This is a wider issue than wildlife in our country or seas. While I welcome the International Whaling Conference, I support the second part of the motion, which urges other EU Governments to follow our Government's example in declaring specified waters to be whale and dolphin sanctuaries. It is worth remembering that the former Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, took this step, as Senator Kelly said. I agree with her that efforts should be made to create a whale sanctuary in the Antarctic region.
Whales and dolphins are fortunate in that they have a good public profile; it would not be as easy to appeal on behalf of the shark or the monkfish. However, this is an excellent start. I listened to Senator Fitzgerald talk about his friend Fungi, who is a highly prized citizen of Dingle. The only trouble in the area concerning Fungi was when others tried to entice him away from the town. I was afraid there would be faction fighting in the Kingdom, developing to a high pitch. Rude messages were sent from town to town about what would happen if Fungi was lured across the bay with fish.
That happened on 1 April.
He remained in Dingle because he knows when he is with his own. As the Senator said, Fungi is a great tourist attraction. While I would not see our desire to increase the whale and dolphin populations around our coast as primarily motivated by tourism, when we promote our green environment we should stress Ireland is a part of Europe which is friendly to wildlife and prizes it highly. We already have great advantages in that ours is an island nation; we do not have trouble keeping under control many diseases which affect wildlife, such as rabies. I hope this is noted also.
Senator Taylor-Quinn's point about research is important. Difficulties are caused because of the many conflicting figures for the populations of whales and dolphins and of various species of whale. The Minister should consider what help we can give to the EU through our great marine biology institutions in Galway and other parts of the island, which could assess difficulties within the whale population. All of those interested in preserving whales, dolphins, porpoises, etc. agree that the more independent the research, the more notice is taken of it by others.
The economic side of whaling has been covered. While it was important for the economies of Norway and Japan in the past, it is doubtful that it is now the case. That is even true of the Faroe Islands. If those countries insist whaling is necessary for their economies, perhaps we should consider taking steps similar to those taken in salmon fishing. The Minister will remember there were great problems with drift net fishing in the vicinity of the Faroes, which had a terrible effect on salmon runs some years ago. Due to the munificence of an Icelandic businessman, the Faroese were given subventions to desist from interfering with the run with fine-filamented nets. This was crucial in hugely improving the run of salmon coming to Ireland and increasing the catches in our waters.
Another Irishman, Dr. A.J. O'Reilly, the chief executive and chairman of Heinz, was informed of the disastrous effect of tuna fishing on the dolphin population. Dolphins and porpoises swam at a higher level than tuna; they became entangled in the tuna nets, were pulled under and drowned. He took action to ensure the tuna fishing which supplied his company did as little damage as possible to the dolphin population. Some tins of tuna state they are "dolphin friendly", which I presume we can believe. We can have greater influence in this area by supporting such efforts, as well as those of the Government. I hope that the Minister will commend the efforts of such individuals.
I welcome the Minister to the House and congratulate the Government side on having this debate at this very opportune time when the International Whaling Commission Conference is taking place in Dublin. It is an ideal opportunity to express our views on the conservation of creatures which have given great pleasure to many people over the years.
Some years ago I spent two very enjoyable days on a whale watching expedition off the coast of Boston and I was amazed at the amount of interest and tourism it created, even in a country as large as the United States. Senator Fitzgerald mentioned Fungi, the Dingle dolphin. An amazing number of people take pleasure in this creature. Prior to Christmas, a whale was washed up on Ballyheigue beach. During the four or five weeks before the local authority decided how to dispose of the carcass, more people visited Ballyheigue than at any time during the tourist season. I compliment the local people on the initiative they took to preserve the whale, which they hope to have as a tourist attraction this year. Such creatures give great pleasure to the public.
I am very concerned about the destruction of our sea life, particularly whales and dolphins. There is now modern technology to kill these creatures and the days of Moby Dick and the sailboats are over. As Senator Kelly stated, modern technology means that these creatures can be destroyed with high speed and explosives. Television programmes are playing a large part in putting pressure on these people by showing this destruction and the baby whales left behind, which cry and make sounds for weeks afterwards. I learned from a very interesting television programme that the whale provides food for thousands of different species of sea life. Senator Fitzgerald made a very valid point that we are lucky that oil pollution does not sink into the water because not alone would it destroy the water but it would also destroy other sea life, such as shellfish, which keep the entire system going.
People can get close to Fungi the dolphin and he enjoys their company. They play with him in the water and he enjoys it as much as they do. Some years ago I saw a whale in Florida and it was wonderful to see such a large creature doing tricks for the public. It is very hard to see these majestic creatures being taken out of our waters. I support the motion. We cannot put enough pressure on the countries which are trying to destroy all the different species of whales and dolphins. One species of whale is under threat at present and once a creature is gone, it is gone forever; it is not possible to restart breeding programmes once a creature is extinct. Lions, tigers and polar bears can be taken into zoos but it is very difficult to do that for whales and dolphins.
I congratulate the former Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, who, on 7 June 1991, announced that all our sea area within a 200 mile radius was a whale and dolphin sanctuary. I also congratulate the Minister on the work which he is doing to try to preserve our environment. After all, we are just caretakers of this world for the future and we must keep everything intact.
Tá fíor áthas orm bheith anseo libh tráthnóna agus cuireann sé áthas orm go bhfuil daoine ar aon intinn faoin ábhar tábhacht seo a bhaineann le gné tábhacht cúram oidhreachta atá orm faoi láthair. I hope to be able to reply to some of the points which have been made.
There are some Members present who will remember that the longest speech I ever gave in my life was about 20 years ago on the Wildlife Bill, 1975, which became the Wildlife Act, 1976. The only quote which I can remember from that speech, which went on for several hours — I was much younger then — is that I said it was very important that we look at the philosophy which lay beneath our assumptions in relation to matters environmental and ecological. I quoted Francis Bacon's notorious phrase in defence of the idea of progress: "I leave to you nature and all her children in bondage for your use". This idea of progress, and what went with it in terms of its political implications, the colonial project and the project of despoliation of the environment in the name of inevitable linear development, has caused most of the problems.
I said then that it was necessary to reconsider the assumptions which we held in relation to the forms of life on the planet. I drew a distinction between the wonderment of children and the destructive attitudes of adults. Listening this afternoon, 20 years later, the wonderment is returning to many of the Senators, who have spoken movingly about their experiences of looking at dolphins.
I will attempt to answer some of the points which have been specifically raised and any others which are raised during the time available for this discussion. While I do not want to anticipate all of what I will say next Monday, I can give the House some idea of my thinking on this matter.
Ireland is, of course, proud to be hosting the 47th annual meeting of the International Whaling Commission in Dublin from 8 May to 2 June. I am proud and honoured to host this major event which brings 500 delegates to Dublin over one month. I note that there are some significant people in the Visitors' Gallery whom I met before, some as far away as Rio de Janeiro, when in another incarnation I was making a documentary on UNCED. I had an easier life then and I was able to fire myself into Greenpeace's agenda with more enthusiasm or, rather, more freedom.
I admire and commend the work of Ms Jennifer Lonsdale of the Environment Investigation Agency, Mr. Fergus O'Gorman, an old friend from the Irish Wildlife Federation and Mr. Ciarán O'Donoghue from the Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. One of the sadnesses of my new position and my lack of time is that I was not free to visit the Galway performance of Whaling Nation, Heathcote Williams' magnificent long poem, with another old friend, Mick Lally, and others; nor am I free on Sunday, unfortunately, when I am making a rare visit to my family in Galway.
I wish to pay tribute to all those who have raised awareness, but more importantly, stood fast in times that were perhaps less amenable to public support for issues like these. A number of very important points must be made about whales. I must sound a word of caution: it is easy to condemn nations but it is far more complicated and difficult to bring nations with you. I say that with an immediate assurance that the position Ireland will be adopting at the conference will be strongly conservationist. I will return to this point in a moment. Members have to bear in mind, for example, a sensitivity to cultures. If we condemn cultures outright and then suggest that they take another path, that path of dependency may in turn be worse in terms of its ecological consequences than anything else.
We may well be able to communicate our own experience to other countries, that is, of having turned away from the things for which we condemn other people now. It is not that we condemn them, but that we seek to convince them that there are other paths which do not require the destructive activity they are pursuing at present. In one of our most famous pieces of writing by a person who lived close to Senator Fitzgerald's area, Tomás Ó Criomhthain in his book, An tOileánach, wrote of an account of the hunting of small cetaceans by driving them ashore off the south coast in the last century which seems to have been fairly frequent. The translation of that passage reads as follows:
I jeered at the old woman whenever she came along with a creel full of porpoise meat balanced on her rump. You might imagine that she came out of the porpoises herself with her creel, she was so thickly smeared with blood. But she earned a meed of praise for she nearly killed the Captain of one of the Dunquin Boats with a blow of a shovel.
The Islanders had no lack of pork for a year and a day, and it would have lasted two years if it hadn't been for all the relations they had everywhere on the mainland.
Ireland has not granted licences to engage in whaling activities since 1939. Prior to this two whaling stations were operated by Norwegians in County Mayo and County Donegal. Whaling records indicate that nearly 700 of the great whales were killed in commercial operations off County Mayo between 1908 and 1914. A former colleague of mine, Professor Jim Fairley in University College Galway, gives these figures in his book Irish Whales and Whaling.
The International Whaling Commission was set up under the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling which was signed in Washington DC on 2 December 1946. The purpose of the convention is to provide for the proper conservation of whale stocks and thus make possible the orderly development of the whaling industry. Its main duty was to keep under review and revise as necessary measures laid down which govern the conduct of whaling throughout the world. In addition the commission coordinates funds and encourages whale research. A moratorium on all commercial whaling came into effect in 1986. Quotas continue to be set for certain aboriginal subsistence operations by the Inuit and similar communities in Alaska, Russia and St. Vincent and the Grenadines.
The International Whaling Commission is under pressure from whaling nations such as Japan and Norway, as Senators have said, to set quotas for a resumption of commercial whaling of minke whales. The IWC is preparing a revised management procedure and scheme designed, as they would see it, to allow catch quotas in such a way as to enable our whale populations to recover to pre-hunting levels. I can tell the Seanad that Ireland will not support setting catch quotas because there are key concerns to be satisfied on the necessary safeguards which include an inspection and observation scheme, data reporting and monitoring. The issue of humane killing must also be addressed.
Ireland ratified the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling on 2 January 1985, having become concerned at the over-exploitation — perhaps that is the wrong word — of most species of large whale. The blue whale in particular has come close to extinction and populations of other species have been dangerously reduced. Ireland has a comprehensive legal framework in place to protect whales and dolphins under the Whale Fisheries Act, 1937, and the Wildlife Act, 1976, to which I referred. The Seanad will be aware that I am committed to amending the Wildlife Act and bringing it up to date to make it stronger, hopefully this year, but certainly not later than 1996. Protective measures have been introduced under European Union and CITES regulations on trade in cetaceous products.
Ireland's position on whaling has been a pro-conservation one based on scientific evidence and in line with the principles of sustainable development. I ask Members to bear in mind the caveat I put on the word “sustainable” in my opening philosophical speculation in which I say that sustainable development is as good a concept as the content one gives to the meaning of “sustain”. What is being sustained and how does one define it in terms of its impact? This position that we have developed is in line with our domestic policies on game hunting and fishing.
In line with national policy to ensure conservation of stocks, Ireland has supported the creation of sanctuaries and in June 1991 we declared all waters in our exclusive economic zone to be a whale and dolphin sanctuary. The tributes paid to former Taoiseach, Mr. Charles J. Haughey, are well made. He was interested in this area and he deserves all the credit due to him for being farsighted in this. That declaration was in line with the Government's environmental policy and was a clear indication of Ireland's commitment to contribute to the protection of cetaceans in their natural environment.
Ireland has been to the fore in efforts to obtain international agreement on the establishment of whale sanctuaries under the auspices of the International Whaling Commission and has played no small part in the adoption of a proposal for a southern ocean sanctuary at the 46th international meeting of the International Whaling Commission held in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, last year. We strongly support the concept of the sanctuary as a valuable conservation tool where specific breeding and feeding areas are protected and where stocks can recover. Ireland took a very strong position on the proposed boundaries of the sanctuary, and with Monaco, was responsible for eventually achieving an increase of 75 per cent in the area of the sanctuary to 7 million square miles of ocean. The extension of the area meant that populations of sei and fin whales are protected in addition to the minke whale stock which is the primary target for protection.
In combination with the pre-existing Indian Ocean sanctuary, the new sanctuary will provide protection for some cetaceans throughout their migratory range and life. I take particular interest in what Senators have stressed in their contributions to this motion on the migration patterns of species. If there is one element that reminds us that our responsibilities do not stop with boundaries, national and otherwise, it is the migratory patterns of species which create an international obligation.
Business and Finance in its issue of 18 May 1995 has an encouraging message for myself in that one of the contributors from the other side of the argument sees our declaration of sanctuary as somewhat cynical. The point is that we are required to take actions that are beyond our remit of time or in terms of interests. Anyone who has heard what has been said here this evening will agree that we were being far from cynical in adopting this progressive attitude. The sanctuary now provides the IWC and other scientific institutions with an excellent opportunity to co-operate in conducting scientific research on undisturbed whale populations.
I will deal with questions as I go along. I am delighted to tell Senator Henry that I will be recruiting a marine biologist to the National Parks and Wildlife Service this year. This will strengthen the staff and help in the preparation of a further expansion of policy in this regard.
The sanctuary will be important as a place for research. My Department is also examining the question of the extension of the Agreement on Small Cetaceans on the Baltic and North Seas, ASCOBANS, to Irish waters. This agreement was drawn up under the Bonn Convention, which Ireland has ratified, and aims to achieve and maintain a favourable conservation status for small cetaceans. This would also involve conservation and management plans for small cetaceans.
I commend the Irish Whale and Dolphin Group, which has co-operated so well with the National Parks and Wildlife Service in promoting the Irish sanctuary, for taking a lead on so many aspects of the conservation of cetaceans. I am delighted that I am accompanied this evening by the Director of the National Parks and Wildlife Service, Mr. Michael Canny, and we see our approach as one of partnership with regard to the future role of the service. I intend to stress this emphasis.
I will cover the specific points raised by Senators, but the views we will bring to the international discussion of these issues will be strongly conservationist. If in doubt, we will come down on the side of conservation in the interest of developing our policy. We will not let matters go if we have questions in relation to suggestions of departure from that stance — for example, where we find either methodological defects or defects in principle.
The Irish Whale and Dolphin Group gave a lead on so many aspects of conservation. It has conducted a number of studies in relation to the sanctuary and manages the whale and dolphin stranding and sighting network. It has also been of major assistance in preparing for the IWC meeting and has organised a series of events during the meeting to celebrate Ireland's sanctuary and to raise public consciousness of it.
I mentioned Heathcote Williams' long poem earlier and the way in which the whale issue has struck a chord with people in general is interesting. Perhaps this has something to do with the long psychic memory, back through the evolutionary chain to the seas from which we all came, but I will restrain myself.
A number of research projects have been carried out relating to the Irish sanctuary. Ireland participated in a study of cetaceans in the Celtic Sea, with assistance from the EU in association with ASCOBANS. A smaller study was conducted into the possibilities of whale watching off the County Mayo coast in conjunction with the International Fund for Animal Welfare. The UCC zoology department has carried out post mortems on stranded cetaceans to collect biological and pollution data.
Whales were over exploited in the past and many populations were endangered. We must now seek to promote non consumptive use of whales to give them time to recover. In particular, there is great potential for the development of whale watching off the west coast. There is a curious dimension to this in that we move into a better symmetry with nature by being willing to look and wonder rather than consume.
There are already small scale dolphin watching enterprises operating on the west coast, some of which were informally described during the debate. Many affectionate references were made to Fungi and his importance to Dingle. I strongly support the development of the whale and dolphin watching industry as a long-term sustainable use of this resource. My Department will prepare draft regulations to ensure the industry develops properly and on whale friendly lines. My interest in this matter goes back a number of years and the impact of humans on Fungi and his equivalents is not always beneficial. If there is to be a developed whale watching industry, it is only proper that it should be regulated and whale friendly. We can feel proud that Ireland's efforts on both national and international fronts have made a significant contribution to the worldwide conservation of cetaceans.
Ireland's declaration of a whale and dolphin sanctuary within our economic zone was the first in Europe, as Senators pointed out. Ireland will continue to support the establishment of sanctuaries as an important part of conservation management. I hope our example will be followed by other nations and in particular by our EU partners. Several Senators urged me to bring moral persuasion to bear on our EU partners and I have no difficulty with this. I will be delighted to bring to our partners the views of Seanad Éireann and the supportive views of Government.
Public opinion, which regards cetaceans as special animals that should not be exploited, clashes with cultures which view cetaceans as a marine resource. As I stated earlier, the IWC is the recognised international forum where these conflicting views are expressed and which has the authority to implement any agreed resolutions on the issue. Senators may find it untypical of me, but I make a plea for patience with regard to convincing people of the long term case. It would be short term to involve oneself in simple condemnations. We should try to maintain the opportunities which exist within the forum for convincing people to change their tactics.
On the other side of the argument, some people make the case for dependent communities, stating that they must be treated sensitively in moving from one form of dependence to ensure that they do not become involved in another. This argument has been over-stressed by people who are interested in simple economic benefit. We must bear these type of considerations in mind.
This is European Nature Conservation Year, the theme of which is conservation outside protected areas. This is why we wanted to host the conference this year. People should not think that this debate has been an entirely sentimental exchange and that we are all of one mind. I listened with interest to what was said about whales in general, but I am mindful of the fact that 0.5 million small whales, dolphins and porpoises die each year. This is a reality we must bear in mind and we must extend our efforts.
Senator Taylor-Quinn raised the question of the Faroese. I have no difficulty with communicating my views, those of Seanad Éireann and the history of our experience to the Danish Government and the Faroese and I will take the opportunity to do so. It would be very wrong if we got locked into a certain situation. We will take a principled stand, but I hope we will not be isolated, with the support of one or two countries. I hope we will be able to convince others and one way of doing this is by conveying the convictions of this House and our experience. I mentioned Tomás Ó Criomhthain at the outset. We were in that position in the last century and at the beginning of this one, but we are not now at that position. I hope we can communicate that to the benefit of others.
Senator Kelly made many points. It is most important that we consider the practicalities of this matter. Many of the claims made regarding the characteristics of whales have been debunked in some respects. However, it is important that we do it, because it is right. I answered Senator Henry's suggestion in relation to marine science and facilitating research. As I stated, I intend to augment my staff with a marine biologist this year. This will give me another advantage in this area and supplement the work being done by our Commissioner.
Senator Kiely mentioned the death of a small whale. It was most interesting to hear him describe this event and the reaction of a local community to it. Local communities establish the best of themselves as they wonder together about this.
I welcomed our visitors. I pay particular tribute to our visitor who has done so much to expose the appalling ivory trade. It is important that business people and those who exploit the advantages of irresponsible business practices, such as the purchase of ivory, be subject to opprobrium on an international scale, which puts them off their activity as well as giving a good wallop to their pockets when it comes to commercial benefits. It has been immensely valuable that they have been exposed from within. I know the background to this. The aspect of the issue in relation to the Faroese which will upset most Senators is the practices and method of killing. This has an impact immediately not just on Senators but on the public. The issue goes further than this.
There could be an examination by the scientific committee of the International Whaling Commission. We will have to be careful, given our history. We cannot say it is easy to impose our cultural values, as they are at present informed by ecological considerations, on others and it would be wrong to do so. This is what I meant by the patience of being able to listen to people — many of whom are genuine — on forms of dependency. Before referring something to a process which might take years, we must immediately communicate to the Danish Government and the Faroese the opinion of this House, the opinion of the Government and the position it has taken on the issue and the history of our own relationship to this issue. I shall do so this week.
I am happy to support the motion. I listened with great interest to the final part of the Minister's statement. A number of countries are involved, including Japan, Norway and Denmark. The involvement of the Danes has been fairly well ventilated so I will start by speaking about the Norwegians in case I get side tracked or exhaust all my time.
I clearly remember reading Moby Dick many years ago. Anybody who has compassion for animals and reads that book will be overwhelmed by a feeling of sadness at the violation humans commit on these magnificent mammals who are gentle, caring and some of whom have highly developed nervous and linguistic systems. This may not, perhaps, be the case with whales but is certainly true of dolphins. I am aware that the argument about the cubic capacity of the cranium and its relation to intelligence has been used against female members of our own species and I regard it as totally specious. There must be some correlation. If we look at the linguistic patterns of dolphins in particular and their complex behaviour, it is clear they are highly intelligent.
I also have a personal propensity towards dolphins. I read a scientific book by Wainright Churchill, in which he said that homosexual behaviour occurs throughout the mammalian order with increasing regularity as one ascends the philogenetic scale. He instanced the fact of life long homosexual monogamous partnerships among dolphins. They are very close to my heart because they behave in a way which commends itself to me.
On 2 May Norway began commercially killing minke whales, despite its admission that the scientific evidence it used to justify the slaughter was incorrect. That is why, in the context of this important meeting of the International Whaling Commission, we should make a strong point not just to Denmark but also to Norway. A letter has been leaked in which the Norwegians admit their estimate of 86,700 minke whale in north-east Atlantic waters is completely and utterly wrong. Computer error is the excuse they give. They admit the true figure is more likely to be about 53,000 whales, a difference of 33,000 animals. Nobody believes this could be due to computer error so what is the underlying reason? I am sorry to have to say that it appears to be political because it was regarded as a vote catcher in elections.
In addition, in a completely cynical move, the Norwegian Government brought the whale hunt forward by a month in order to boost their catch when it was being taken into account in terms of allocating quotas. One of the real problems with this, apart from the slaughter, is the nature of the beasts which are being slaughtered. Because of the season, they are much more likely to be whales in calf. Pregnant females are likely to be the main targets as they also yield more meat and are easier to catch because they are slower. The Norwegian Government lowered the quota from 301 to 232 whales but, in open defiance of their Government and world opinion, the Norwegian whalers rejected the new quota, declaring their intention to slaughter the original figure of 301 whales.
I think it is a very useful moment for Ireland, which has a good reputation because of its record in declaring a whale sanctuary in its waters, to make these points to the Norwegian and Danish Governments. We could find ourselves in a situation where once again the slaughter continues and we have up to 2,000 whales being killed every year by Norwegian whalers alone. If this is tolerated, it is only to be expected that the Japanese, seeing this breach made in conservation policy, will themselves follow suit.
What we should be calling for is, first, Norway to immediately stop slaughtering minke whales in the north-east Atlantic. Second — I know the Minister is particularly committed to the principles in political life of openness, transparency, clarity, honesty, integrity and full disclosure of the truth — the Norwegians ought to admit in public they have been wrong, that their figures were inaccurate and they do not underestimate the intelligence of the human mammal by trying to maintain it was simply a matter of computer error. They should be subjected to an unlimited moratorium on all scientific and commercial whaling. The use of research and scientific information gathering etc., for slaughter is a cynical exercise which demeans the whole concept of science itself.
The Faroe Islands are a Danish responsibility. Faroese nationals sit on the delegation of the Danish Government to the International Whaling Commission. This is where we can make our feeling clearly known to the Danish Government. The Faroe Islands are only 400 miles off the north of Ireland and are a whale sanctuary. There is a clear contradiction in having a whale sanctuary so close to an area where whales are so clearly and unpleasantly slaughtered. The whale hunt of the pilot whales is not for food. Historically, as the Minister said, it was understandable when this was part of a natural process and people used whale meat but this is no longer the case. It is clearly for sport.
The Faroese authorities, because of the PCB contamination of whales, have advised their own people not to eat the meat of whales. The Faroese Government consistently blocks efforts by the International Whaling Commission to gain protection for the half million other small whales, dolphins and porpoises which are dying every year. They also attempt to impose a kind of censorship on the International Whaling Commission so that the proper and scientific scrutiny of the hunt may be impeded.
Pilot whaling can take place at any time of the day, any day of the year. It is totally indiscriminate in that entire herds of whales are killed, including pregnant and lactating females and their young, and this sort of indiscriminate killing is banned elsewhere in Europe under the Berne Convention on the Conservation of European Wildlife and Natural Habitats.
I gather from what the Minister has said that some of the descriptions of the way in which these unfortunate animals are hounded, battered, bludgeoned and sliced has already been placed on the record of the House, so perhaps it will not be necessary for me to go into this matter. I have recently seen a film in which this process was made clearly visible to a television audience and it was one of the most revolting things I have ever seen. I feel ashamed of my humanity when the superior intelligence of mankind is being used to slaughter these animals, who have no defence against the extraordinary technology that is now employed against them.
In the 19th century people were dependent upon the whale hunt for food and resources. The oil from whales helped to light their igloos. The whales were on a more equal level with their hunters because they were in a natural environment without the kind of additional technological aids that the whalers now have which give the whales no chance at all. There is something particularly disgusting in this form of slaughter and it cannot be justified nowadays. People are not dependent on whales for natural resources.
As I have been made aware by an excellent briefing from the Irish Wildlife Federation, either the Faroese people are eating far more whale meat and blubber than is safe, or they are consistently wasting large numbers of whales. Anything I know about the hunting of seals, dolphins and the different varieties of whales would lead me to the second conclusion, that there is enormous and disgusting waste.
I gather from what the Minister has said that he feels the best way to tackle this is for Ireland to use its moral leadership in this area to persuade the Danish, the Faroese and perhaps, the Norwegians; but I hope there will be a sting in this persuasion and at least the threat of some degree of sanction. From my experience of the human animal, I am afraid that unless there is some weapon or sanction that can be applied, then moral suasion, particularly when, as in the case of the Norwegian Government, who perceive an electoral advantage by pursing this policy, it is unlikely to have the kind of effect that this House, I imagine unanimously, and the Minister would like to see.
When one confronts and views the armoury of the whalers and the way in which they inflict injury, mutilation and damage upon whales in calf, pregnant females and so on, offering or proposing the small marginal weapon of some degree of sanction is but a reasonable and moral counterbalance to the kind of savagery to which these Governments, to their eternal shame, continue to lend their sanction.
I will be brief. I welcome the Minister to the House and I also welcome the opportunity of speaking on this motion. I commend the Minister for what he has already said and for his promise to greatly strengthen the Wildlife Act — he said that he hoped to do this later in the year. I also welcome the Minister saying that he will carry the opinion both of this House and the Government to the Faroese and show them how much we disapprove of what is happening in their waters.
We have taken a principled stand on this issue and have a good reputation internationally. We should commend our own commissioner on the International Whaling Commission, Michael Canny, from the Office of Public Works Wildlife department. He has an excellent reputation, is highly thought of and is strong on conservation issues. It is good for us to realise that we have such a highly thought of representative on that commission. We are not yet aware of the effect of environmental damage on whales. A study is being carried out by the International Whaling Commission as to the effects of global warming, pollution etc. It is essential that we press for the moratorium on commercial whaling for a long time to come.
The Minister talked about An tOileánach and ethnic Indians, but times have changed and we have moved on. We, and those in the Faroe Islands, are no longer looking to whales as a source of food. Whale hunting is now mainly seen as a sporting occasion and what is going on there could not have the approval of any civilised nation. I accept that it may be better to bring people along by encouraging them to do this through conservation methods, but a strong statement should be made to the Faroese, the Danish authorities, and, as Senator Norris said, the Norwegians. Japan is another country that is involved in using large factory whaling ships; and if we do not operate a conservation policy, the numbers of whales will decrease significantly. Like all things in nature, sometimes it is only when we have destroyed it that we realise its worth and then it is too late for us to do anything about it.
I strongly support this motion. Most of what I was going to say on the whales has already been said by Senator Norris; unfortunately, he arrived a few minutes before I stood up. I support what all of the Senators have said. I welcome the comments from the Minister and urge him to express our feelings to the countries involved in the strongest possible manner. The Minister said that he would carry the opinions of this House and the Government and make them known to the Faroese authorities; but, as Senator Norris said, sometimes one may need sanctions to get results from people.
I compliment the Government for putting down this motion. It is important that we get an opportunity to speak on such matters. We often get carried away with many issues that we see as important, but when we are talking about the protection of our environment, wildlife and sealife, it is good to see the concern that Members of this House have for these issues, that they will put them down for a lengthy debate and that we all have an opportunity to state that we are on the one side on this matter and commend the Minister and the Government.
I finish by paying tribute, like most Members, to a previous Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, who gave us a lead in what needed to be done with our wildlife.
I support the motion and I also welcome the Minister's colourful statement on it. As somebody who lives inland, I do not know a lot about sealife, but I did see the world famous Dingle dolphin some years ago and have also learned a lot from this debate, especially from Senator Fitzgerald's contribution. It is a timely motion and I support it.
I understand the Minister is anxious to speak. It is not normal for a Minister to speak a second time on a motion, but he can do so if the House agrees? Is that agreed? Agreed?
I thank you, Sir, and the House for its flexibility. The Leader of the House told me it would be operating like this.
I will not abuse my privilege. I only want to reassure the three Senators who spoke after my contribution and who wanted to know where we stood on the matters they raised. For example, Senator Norris raised the question of the attitude we would be taking with Norway. We will be raising questions at the IWC about the legality and propriety of Norway's whaling. This is a stronger position than that of those we may seek to persuade. When I was speaking about persuasion I was thinking of those countries which do not accept the IWC's legal competence to deal with, for example, small cetaceans. This is an area where such a tactic would be appropriate. Patience is necessary, but there must also be a sting in the tail. Senator Honan made a similar point. Both Senators Norris and Byrne welcomed the motion. One of the reasons we will be raising questions at the IWC about the legality and propriety of Norway's whaling is that, it seems to me at least, the estimates used by Norway are without scientific basis.
I appreciate all the points made by Members. We will continue our critique of the revised management scheme and its methodology. We will continue our efforts in relation to the compromise formula, which would have the effect of preventing the resumption of commercial whaling. We will be taking a conservative approach towards the United States' request to increase their aboriginal catch. We will certainly support sanctuaries and whale watching.
I have given the thinking and theoretical basis for our approach and this will be developed in the contribution. I thank the Senators for their remarks and also for their tributes to the Irish commissioner, who has made a very good contribution. I assure the House that their views will be communicated speedily to where they can have most effect.
I thank all those who spoke on this motion for their support. We have had a very good debate and a variety of contributions which dealt with all aspects of this problem. I particularly thank the Minister for dealing in such detail with the various points raised in the course of the debate.
I thank Senator Fitzgerald, who gave us a fine appreciation of the environment in Dingle and the importance of Fungi, not just to the tourist industry but also to the environment in Dingle. He referred to him as the watcher of the environment. That is an important aspect which should not be underestimated. As a west of Ireland woman, I equally appreciate and fully value superstition in relation to the sea. I fully respect the superstition that no life has been lost in the port since Fungi appeared. I am sure the Minister, as a fellow Clare person, would share the traditional superstitions of Clare with me.
Senator Kelly made a fine contribution on the variety of whales that exist and their migratory, feeding and mating patterns. She also elaborated on the beauty of these mammals and the importance of preserving and protecting them. Senator Henry also gave a fine contribution and referred in particular to the importance of research and how it could be assisted by research being done currently in various universities and institutions in Ireland. I am delighted that the Minister has taken the opportunity this evening to announce that an additional marine biologist is to be employed in his Department to assist the wildlife section. That is highly commendable and I welcome that announcement.
Senator Kiely gave us a full report of what the Kerry lads did in Ballyheige with the beached whale. In true Kerry fashion, they used it to its full advantage and potential and I presume that on my next visit to Ballyheige I will see a stuffed whale as a tourist attraction. It shows how the local community can respond to any given situation and must be commended.
I fully understand and share the Minister's view that it is more complicated to bring nations along with you and it is easy to condemn. There is no better person than the Minister to use his brilliant flow of language and linguistic skills to convince the international delegates who will come to Dublin of alternative and better paths for the future. We will rest our case with the Minister and leave it in his capable and competent hands to bring to the international community. We have full confidence that he will do that successfully, bearing in mind that a strong conservation line will underline all his contributions at that conference.
Patience is required to convince people to change their tactics. Nevertheless, as Senator Norris said, there also has to be a little sting in the tail and an element of sanction is necessary. I thank the Minister for promising to convey the views expressed here this evening. They include the view that there is a need for some sanctions against those whalers using extraordinarily forceful tactics on the whaling population. We welcome the Minister's announcement that he will bring the views of this House to the Danish Government and Faroese Government and we will depend on him to use his full powers of persuasion.
I welcome particularly the Minister's announcement that catch quotas will not be set for certain stocks because there are still key concerns to be satisfied on necessary safeguards. These include an inspection and observation scheme, data reporting and monitoring. The issue of humane killing must also be addressed. The Minister reiterated that Ireland's position on whaling has been pro-conservation, one based on scientific evidence and in line with the principles of sustainable development. I note the Minister did not go into great detail on sustainable development and I appreciate the delicacies, various patterns and different cultures involved. However, we will depend on the Minister to elaborate as he sees fit when he presents our arguments.
Senator Norris dealt in detail with the situation in Norway, which had not been addressed by other Senators. The advertisement in The Irish Times today clearly states the entire case of Norway. It is on the public record and deserves full support. I thank Senators Honan and Byrne for their contributions. I am delighted that our commissioner, Michael Canny, is here to hear the views of the Senators and I wish him well as our member of the whaling commission. I am also delighted to see in the Visitor's Gallery, Fergus O'Gorman, Brendan Burgess and Jennifer Lonsdale. It has been a worthwhile debate and I thank all the Senators for their support. I am delighted this is going through the House without a division.
Question put and agreed to.
Acting Chairman
When is it proposed to sit again?
At 10.30 a.m. tomorrow.