Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 31 Jan 1996

Vol. 146 No. 1

Order of Business.

Mr. Manning

Today's business is item 1 and Motion No. 23. We will take Second Stage of item 1, the Domestic Violence Bill, 1995. Each speaker will have 20 minutes, if that is acceptable.

I will now outline the business for the next three or four weeks. Tomorrow, as requested many times during the last session, there will be statements on agriculture. Next Wednesday we will take Second Stage of the Waste Management Bill, 1995, and on Thursday we will take Second Stage of Senator Henry's Bill on the prohibition of child sex tourism. On Wednesday, 7 February, we will take the Johnstown Castle Agricultural College (Amendment) Bill, 1996, which is a Seanad Bill to relocate the headquarters of the Environmental Protection Agency in Johnstown Castle. A number of other Bills will also be taken in the next few weeks, including the Irish Steel Bill, which has not yet been published but which is an urgent Bill relating to payment; the Voluntary Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill, 1995, is on Report Stage in the Dáil and it will be taken in this House as soon as it is completed there; the Refugee Bill, 1995, is also on Committee Stage and the merchant shipping Bill, which is a Seanad Bill, has not yet been published but it is expected shortly.

Mr. Wright

I thank the Leader for allowing time for statements on agriculture tomorrow which this side of the House asked for on many occasions.

He pre-empted a question I was going to ask about proposed legislation for this session. I thank him for outlining the legislation which will come before this House in the near future. Although there will be a major debate on crime tonight, only one piece of legislation on crime will be taken before Easter. It is important that the Minister for Justice knows that this side of the House will co-operate when she introduces such legislation. Fianna Fáil has published six Bills and I welcome the decision by the Minister for Justice to accept the Misuse of Drugs Bill, 1996. On the Order of Business this morning the Taoiseach said he may also welcome another Fianna Fáil Bill.

In view of the decision made by the Government about Baldonnel, which I welcome, will the Leader ask the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications to reconsider the decision not to bring the light rail transport system to Dublin Airport before he introduces the Dublin light rail transport Bill?

Mr. O'Toole

I welcome the Leader's decision to outline the legislation to be taken in the next few weeks. I too am delighted there will be a debate on agriculture tomorrow. I hope the speakers will take issue with those in the agriculture sector who have failed to provide jobs over the past couple of years. I will contribute to that debate to give the other side of the story.

I am disappointed the Leader did not mention the debate on the report of the Institute of European Affairs on the single European currency and the intergovernmental conference. It is crucial that we allow time for a debate on this issue because if we do not have one in the next few weeks we will lose the opportunity for informed public debate. I do not want to discuss the issues now, but this is the best place to start a discussion so that people can offer their views on the subject. Since this report is not written from a political party point of view it provides an opportunity for a debate on an issue which will have more impact on our lives than any other Government decision.

Mr. Dardis

I thank the Leader for outlining the legislation to be taken in the near future and for allowing a debate on agriculture tomorrow, which we have sought for a long time. We have important Private Members' business this evening but the time will be restricted and many people will want to speak on this matter because it concerns everyone on all sides of the House.

Will the Leader consider providing more time at a later date to discuss crime because I suspect the debate this evening will be quite restricted?

In terms of the legislative programme — perhaps we can get this question answered this evening — am I to assume there will be legislation on the Garda Representative Association? If so, when is such legislation likely to come before the House?

I wonder about Senator O'Toole's incursion into Roscommon. Is there some profound significance in this assault across the Shannon? I also get worried when there is a queue of matters on the Adjournment because it always leads me to believe that we will shortly have a general election. However, I think this is more a hangover from Christmas than anything else.

One matter I find of profound interest is the tremendous amount of statutory and non-statutory papers which have been laid before the Seanad. Perhaps this is done at Christmas so that it will not attract a lot of attention. I note that Statutory Paper No. 7 is the Registration of Electors (County of Kildare) (Special Difficulty) Order, 1995 (S.I. No. 354 of 1995). Maybe the Leader can tell me whether I should be concerned about that particular matter.

Mr. Manning

Ask Senator Wall.

Mr. O'Kennedy

As Fianna Fáil spokesman on Northern Ireland, I ask the Leader if he will convey to the Taoiseach our request to convene an immediate meeting of the British/Irish Interparliamentary Body. I know the Taoiseach is not a member of the body but Deputy Paul Bradford is its cochairman.

I say this in the light of the impasse that has developed since the announcement of the positive conclusions reached by the Mitchell commission which was followed immediately by an extraordinary statement from the British Prime Minister on proposed elections to a Northern Ireland Assembly. Obviously, there is at least a little tension between the Governments and this is understandable at this point. I make this case because the British/Irish Interparliamentary Body has established a good working relationship over the years, both between the individual members and the representative parties. In view of the fact that all parties, including the SDLP and the Unionists, who have a right to be there although they do not attend, could meet and discuss the issue, it is of vital importance that the British/Irish Interparliamentary Body would meet in plenary session as soon as possible to support the central needs of the peace process.

Mr. Maloney

I too call for a debate on Northern Ireland. We all waited with bated breath for the Mitchell report and have been disappointed by the British attitude to it. We all must praise the Government's stance on this issue but it is important that we debate the matter here in the House. I call for a debate as soon as possible because both the nationalist and unionist communities in Northern Ireland have genuine concerns about the report.

I also call for a debate on the White Paper on mental health. This House was promised a debate on this matter in December but nothing has happened. This matter is of major concern to professionals and those who are incarcerated.

Mr. Daly

The Leader will be aware that on a number of occasions we have endeavoured to raise the issue of the state of county roads. He will also be aware that the Minister for the Environment will make a statement on his policy on county roads and his plans to deal with the problem on Monday in a hotel in town. Can that statement be circulated to Members of the House or made available to us next week so that we can have a discussion on the Minister's proposals?

Mr. Sherlock

I welcome the Leader's statement that Second Stage of the Waste Management Bill, 1995, will be taken next week. Waste management is one of the most controversial issues at present. In view of the fact that the Leader outlined the legislative programme for four or five weeks, will he consider having that Bill concluded as soon as possible?

Ms Honan

Will the Leader arrange for the Minister for Health to come to the House at an early date? I support Senator Maloney's call for a discussion on mental health. I would like to be reassured the Minister for Health is doing all in his power to ensure there is not a national nurses' strike. I would also like to know the state of the Department of Health's discussion document on mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse in view of the publication yesterday of the Church's response to allegations of child sexual abuse. Mandatory reporting was recommended in the Kilkenny incest report and the discussion document still has not seen the light of day. How soon can we expect to see it? A debate on health was requested a number of times in the last session and it should be a priority this session.

Mr. Mulcahy

A lot of what I was going to say has been said by Senator Wright and Senator Dardis. We received a list of proposed legislation in the criminal justice area from the Chief Whip indicating ten Bills to be published by the Government before Easter. We intend to co-operate fully with all strong criminal justice and law enforcement measures the Minister will propose and to co-operate with the introduction of new legislation. It would be appropriate if some of those Bills were to be initiated in this House. There is so much legislation to be dealt with, especially in the other House, that in response to the national crime emergency, we would be in a better position to process speedily the initial debate on some of these Bills. Will the Leader ask the Minister if some of the Bills can be initiated in this House?

Mr. Finneran

I support the request for a debate on health. We have sought and were promised a debate on health during the last session. I am disappointed that today's announcement by the Leader does not include an overall debate on health. While I welcome the VHI legislation there are many other pressing matters, in particular the White Paper on mental health. The administration of the psychiatric services is governed by legislation which is 50 years old. It is inappropriate that a White Paper is not to be debated in the House although a debate has been called for on numerous occasions and is long overdue. I ask the Leader to consult with the Minister for Health to see if we can have a debate on the White Paper on mental health at an early date.

We will all support the Minister in his efforts to avert a nurses strike and I hope the negotiations will continue. The nurses have a case but I do not see a strike as the way to resolve matters. However, they cannot be ignored and I hope the Minister will pursue the negotiations.

Mr. McGowan

An EU information sheet issued on 26 January highlights preparations for the information society. We had an IT and information centre in Donegal for nine years but it is now closed. It had £1.9 million worth of business from Europe and was 90 per cent viable. It was in competition as an information park with Belfast. Will the Leader arrange an early debate on the value of information technology? The EU clearly states that jobs can be provided in the IT area.

An Cathaoirleach

I ask the Senator to put a question to the Leader.

Mr. McGowan

The centre was established with the assistance of the regional technical college in Letterkenny, Eolas, IDA, Telecom Éireann and the Department of Education. It is a nine year old information technology centre which won business from all over the country, including the Office of Public Works. I urge the Leader to arrange a debate in view of the fact that the Minister has stated that he is overworked and does not have time to meet Dr. Vincent Murphy, the director of the information technology centre in Letterkenny.

An Cathaoirleach

I am sure that the Senator will be able to deal with that during his matter on the Adjournment tonight. I ask him to put a question to the Leader.

Mr. McGowan

I appreciate that. In view of the fact that the Minister does not have time to meet the director of our information technology centre, I ask for a debate on this issue as we have a crisis in Donegal. I am confident that the Leader will respond favourably to my request.

Mr. Neville

I support Senator Maloney's request for a debate on Northern Ireland. The House should use the opportunity to put on record its abhorrence of the British Government's treatment of republican prisoners in Britain. They are treated in an unnecessarily cruel and vindictive way and those of us who visited them recently are aware of the deteriorating situation there. We should use the occasion to put our views firmly on the record.

Mr. Lydon

I thank the Leader for the list of proposed legislation, especially the VHI Bill. I agree with my colleague, Senator O'Toole, that we should have a debate on monetary union. We are often accused of being reactive rather than proactive and this gives us a unique opportunity to be proactive in this area. I ask the Leader for a debate on that matter as soon as possible.

Mr. Cassidy

I concur with Senator Daly on the disrespect shown to this House by the Minister for the Environment in making announcements on county roads when such important announcements should be made in both Houses. If other parties were in power it would be viewed in a different light.

Mr. Neville

That Minister has provided more for county roads than anyone else in the last 20 years.

Mr. Cassidy

In terms of transparency and all that goes with it——

An Cathaoirleach

I ask the Senator to put a question to the Leader.

Mr. Cassidy

When does the Leader propose to have a debate on broadcasting? Yesterday we witnessed the interviews for the new radio licences. However, to the detriment of the Irish music business, only 2 per cent of the music played by new radio stations, such as FM 104 and 98 FM, is Irish. That should be discussed in this House and our views made known to the chairman of the Authority.

We put a question to the Minister some time ago on piracy in Ireland. This Christmas was a disgrace in that regard. If there is not a debate on that matter in this House within one month, I intend to introduce a Bill to deal with it.

Mr. Mooney

It is difficult to follow my alter ego, Senator Cassidy.

Mr. Neville

I thought he was going to resign.

Mr. Mooney

I definitely support more airplay for Foster and Allen on FM 104.

I wish to ask the Leader about a non-statutory paper laid before the Seanad, No. 31 on the Order Paper. It concerns the 1995 report of the Task Force on Long-Term Unemployment. I am a member of the National Economic and Social Forum and this matter has exercised the minds of the forum over the last six to nine months. It had an input into the task force report issued by the Government in December.

Specific initiatives in last week's budget centre around a reorganisation and introduction of local employment services in 14 areas. That is a new targeted exercise which I hope will address the issue of long-term unemployment. However, a debate in this House — perhaps in Government time — might be useful because my impression is that while the initiative is in place, the philosophy behind it is still in an evolutionary stage and it has not been decided yet how it will be approached. If we had a debate, similar to that on agriculture and specific to the report, ideas and propositions might be forthcoming which could be helpful to the effective administration of the service.

Miss Ormonde

I support Senator O'Kennedy's request that the Tánaiste come before the House to reopen the debate on Northern Ireland. Major concern exists in this regard. There is a perception that the talks have broken down, especially this telephone diplomacy which exists between the two Governments. It is sad that the peace process is being undermined by who said what. It is timely that the Tánaiste should come before the House to clarify the position because the peace process seems to be under threat.

Mr. Cashin

I would like to bring the Leader's attention to a situation which arose when the President of the United States visited the country and this House. The Taoiseach described a statue in the Green Hall as that of Robert Emmet when, in fact, it was that of "The Liberator", Daniel O'Connell.

Mr. Dardis

His alter ego.

Mr. Cashin

I request that a nameplate be placed at the base of the statue to avoid further confusion. A nameplate has already been placed at the base of the statue of Charles Stewart Parnell. The Kerryman should have his full rights.

Mr. Manning

I thank Senator Wright for his promise of co-operation on any legislation in the area of justice. I know that his promise will extend to all areas and I am grateful for it. The Dublin light rail Bill is at an advanced stage of preparation and should be before the Houses of the Oireachtas before the summer recess. I will convey the ongoing concerns of the Leader of the Opposition for the extension of the light rail system to Dublin Airport to the relevant Minister.

With regard to Senator O'Toole's contribution, when providing the list of Bills with which the House will deal during the coming weeks, I was very specific in relation to legislation that will definitely be placed before the House. Further legislation will be forthcoming. The Senator is correct to raise the issue of a debate on the intergovernmental conference. Members are aware that it was suggested, during the last session, that former Senator James Dooge — a former Cathaoirleach who is one of the authors of the Institute of European Affairs document on the European Union — should address the House. Plans for this are at an advanced stage. It is envisaged that we will have a question and answer session with former Senator Dooge regarding the document to which Senator O'Toole referred. The debate may take place as early as 15 February, but it will certainly occur in the near future when a suitable date is decided.

Senator Dardis raised the issue of crime. I agree that tonight's debate may only scratch the surface of the problem. I had asked the Minister to appear before the House, independent of tonight's debate during Fianna Fáil Private Members' time, and perhaps that proposal can be reactivated.

On the question of the Garda Representative Association, legislation is being prepared. This legislation is complex and difficult as it attempts to regulate the affairs of two separate bodies. I suspect it is the view of all Members that it would be infinitely preferable if we did not have to deal with this matter through legislation. The behaviour of the two representative bodies has been extremely unedifying to the public and has created a very bad impression of all gardaí — despite the fact that only a small number are involved. It would be to everyone's advantage if they could sort out their problems rather than request that we, as legislators, do so.

Senator O'Kennedy raised the question of the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body. I agree with everything he stated in this regard. It has been extraordinarily helpful in breaking down barriers between the parliamentarians of both countries. However, it is my understanding that the body is autonomous and may, itself, convene a meeting. I believe that its members would resent the Taoiseach taking a lead in a matter which is proper to its own deliberations. I will convey the Senator's point to that body.

Senator Maloney and Senator Finneran raised the question of mental health. During the current session, it is intended to deal with topics which were not covered during the last session. We will begin tomorrow by dealing with the subject of agriculture. I have placed the White Paper on mental health high on the agenda. It is hoped to debate the matter in the near future and I hope to have more significant news for the Senator next week.

Senator Daly raised the issue of county roads. The Senator and others are obviously very pleased at the progress that has been made on county roads over the past year. I will arrange that the paper, of which I am not aware, will be made available to all Senators. Like everybody else I would prefer if these announcements were made in the Houses of the Oireachtas.

As for Senator Sherlock's question, there will be no delay on the Waste Management Bill, but it is not one that we want to rush unduly. We hope to clear it over the next couple of weeks.

Senator Honan raised the question of a debate on health. I am conscious that it has been promised and I will get back to it pretty soon. I cannot give her an answer on the status of the document to which she referred but I will make inquiries for her.

Senator Mulcahy's point was raised already. Senator Finneran also raised the question of mental health. I can assure him that such a debate will take place very soon.

I did not understand Senator McGowan's intervention but I will not ask him to repeat it. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to raise it on the Adjournment if he could phrase it more precisely.

Senator Neville raised the question of republican prisoners within the context of a debate on Northern Ireland. I will talk to the Tánaiste about that to see when a debate would be helpful. The question raised concerning the intergovernmental conference has been dealt with.

Senator Cassidy sought a debate on broadcasting and the Minister is anxious to have such a debate. As he is currently receiving submissions he does not want to come in at this stage to give what would be his considered response to those submissions. However, it could be arranged in such a way that the debate here would, in effect, be a submission from this House without tying the Minister's hands on his final position. If that is agreeable we could do that.

Mr. Cassidy

Agreed.

Mr. Manning

I would welcome a Private Members' Bill on piracy from the Senator. It would be a useful contribution.

Senator Mooney mentioned the task force on long-term unemployment. Such a debate could be arranged but we do not want to duplicate work being done in the forum. Perhaps the Senator and I could have a chat about how that could best be done.

Senator Ormonde sought a debate on Northern Ireland. It is a tribute to the durability of the Anglo-Irish process that, even though there have been difficulties in the past week, there are mechanisms to resolve them. We should not be too pessimistic about the events of the past week. The process is still working, people are still talking and I am hopeful the difficulties will be resolved.

I am sure Senator Cashin will have the support of Senator Lee in his attack on revisionism, whether it be of statues or of history. I will convey his observations to the appropriate authorities.

Order of Business agreed to.