Today's Order of Business is items 1 and 2. We will take item 1 until 6 p.m. and given it is a major item of legislation each speaker may have 30 minutes. Item 2 will be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. with ten minutes per speaker and the Minister will conclude the debate not later than 7.45 p.m.
Order of Business.
I welcome the arrangements for items 1 and 2. Many of my colleagues have been fully briefed by their county managers on the Waste Management Bill and will appreciate the chance to participate on Second Stage and they will also want to speak on different aspects of agriculture.
In view of the fact that the Mitchell report and the report of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation have been made public, will the Leader arrange for the Tánaiste to come to the House to bring us up to date on developments in relation to Northern Ireland? It has been some time since we had a chance to discuss the issue. I am aware of the Leader's views in relation to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs but the House should have the opportunity to discuss the matter and to hear from the Tánaiste at first hand.
I wish to commend and support the Government's efforts in relation to Sellafield. I ask the Leader to convey our support to the Government in its efforts to ensure that all information relating to recent incidents at Sellafield is made public.
I wish to raise with the Leader a report published during the week about the number of people dropping out of school with no qualifications — 4,000 or more per year — and to relate that to the continuing debate on the issue and the Taoiseach's conviction that there is a clear connection between unemployment, poverty and crime. Will the Government consider making that connection and note that it is the same group of people who do not obtain qualifications, become drop-outs in society, become involved in crime and make up the prison population? I am not asking for a new debate on crime; the issue might be addressed in a debate at an early date on the White Paper on education.
As soon as this report was published there was a row about whether the statistics were correct. There has been a debate of late about the number of people at work and out of work and whether the unemployment or the employment figures are the correct measure. We are going from pillar to post and nobody knows how many people are working and how many are not. We need a debate to have explained how calculations are made as to the numbers at work and out of work so that we can make fair comparisons. One is drawn to the conclusion that Governments are hiding behind inaccuracies in figures, whether deliberately or otherwise. We need to have a debate as to how calculations of statistics are made on everything from national growth in the economy to unemployment.
I support Senator O'Toole's point about statistics. We are at a point where we really do not know if we can rely on any figures. Perhaps the debate needs to be extended to the Central Statistics Office. Whether in Government or in Opposition we can all find figures to suit the case we wish to make. The authenticity of some of the statistics is questionable and the matter should be looked at.
Last night in Tipperary there was another murder in a rural area. The last time we talked about this issue was during the Private Members' motion on crime. The Leader acknowledged that it would be impossible for everyone to speak at that time and I thank him for allowing extra time on that occasion. He accepted that it was a subject to which we should return, and not necessarily during Private Members' time. Could he make time available soon to debate the whole area of criminal justice — the bail laws, the right to silence and so on — in more detail?
I support the call for a debate on Northern Ireland. I have not always supported that call as, due to the delicacy of the situation, I thought that it was better to leave the matter alone. However, now that we have the report of the drafting committee of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation and given the current stage of development, it would be useful if the House were to debate the issue because we have a good record of positive contributions on the matter. I ask the Leader to make time available for statements on Northern Ireland.
I too call for a debate on Northern Ireland. However, we should focus a great deal of attention on the Mitchell report because public debate was sidetracked into the whole question of an assembly following its publication. There is a need for greater focus on the Mitchell report itself and it would be useful for this House to take that role.
Will the Minister for Education brief this House about her Department's error? Parents are greatly concerned about the fact that last year some students, whose career paths depended on the points they achieved in their leaving certificate, were not given full credit in the art and design examination. I have great regard for how the Department of Education does its work; I corrected leaving certificate examination papers and I know that it is meticulous. However, somewhere along the line something went amiss and the Minister must play a role in putting it right.
The Minister has undermined public confidence by not being upfront about this. We, as public representatives, have a duty to tell the public that all examinations will be corrected. The Minister is pussyfooting around this; she should have made this information public last term. Will the Leader request the Minister to brief this House on the correction of examinations, rechecks and that error, particularly for the information of students taking examinations next summer?
In relation to early school leavers, I agree with other speakers that the Youthreach group is not picking up those young people who drop out of school early. Why is that group not making that transition? Public funds were allocated to Youthreach. Will the Leader give that issue precedence in his discussion with the Minister?
I note that the distinguished former manager of the Irish football team, Mr. Jack Charlton, is to be conferred with honorary Irish citizenship. I accept the importance of sport in building a national feeling of self esteem and so on. However, I asked on many occasions for this great honour to be awarded to Raoul Wallenberg. I raised this matter on three occasions in three major debates. I represented this House in Budapest at the Interparliamentary Union and raised the issue there. On each occasion I raised the matter in this House I was informed that it might involve constitutional difficulties. I provided the relevant Ministers with precedents from the United States and Canada, countries which have both managed to grant Mr. Wallenberg honorary citizenship and overcame the difficulty that he might be dead.
Will the Leader inquire if the Government is prepared to accept such a proposal, at this time, in light of the fact that they found it easy to confer honorary citizenship on Jack Charlton? I do not intend to criticise Mr. Charlton, but I wonder what this says about our priorities as a nation?
Hear, hear.
We are continually bleating about our Christian values. Raoul Wallenberg lived in a very difficult period of European history, yet he managed to sustain such values. He has been ignored by this country and every other country in Europe.
Before Christmas the House requested that the Minister responsible for Irish Steel appear before us to explain the final agreement that was reached in this matter. That has not been done. I believe that this House and the Lower House should be informed about the contents of that agreement.
I am concerned that we have not discussed VHI costs in great detail. We are permitting the VHI to continue to increase charges for health care. That matter should be discussed in this House.
I agree with Senator O'Toole that there should be a general debate on employment. We should not be afraid to discuss the cost of easy jobs or false jobs. We should consider the best way to create real jobs in the future.
I am sure I reflect the views of Members in expressing total horror at, and rejection of, the people who violated a home in County Tipperary last night. They murdered the late Danny Fanning in his own kitchen. Mr. Fanning represented all that is best in the values of rural Ireland, an open house and hearth and a friendly family. It is horrific to think that this pattern of crime is continuing throughout the country. Mr. Fanning was related to a distinguished former Member of the Oireachtas, the late Deputy John Fanning. I hope that an opportunity can be found to further review the consensus reached by this House in support of the Minister for Justice's actions on crime. It is essential that those necessary actions be taken as quickly as possible. We must ensure that people who are characterised by hard work, goodwill, family values and friendship toward the community feel safe in their own homes.
I support the request for a debate on Northern Ireland. I state this again in a sense of solidarity regarding what this and the previous Government have achieved. Such a debate will enable Members to express total repudiation of the offensive remarks of Deputy John Taylor towards the Tánaiste. It is not the first time Mr. Taylor has expressed offensive remarks in respect of this part of the island. In December 1993 he stated in The Irish Times that if there were a united Ireland — he also stated that we in the Republic were determined to bring this about by way of taking over the North — it would become apparent that “the Protestants of Northern Ireland, just as the Protestants of the Republic, had to get out——
Some of us are still here and a very good thing it is too.
I am glad to know that. Let us hope that this House continues to hear from the Senator.
According to Senator O'Kennedy, "Deputy" Taylor is a member of the other House.
The matter is not relevant to the Order of Business.
It is important that our Protestant colleagues, who we hold in great esteem——
There are four of us in this House.
——be afforded the opportunity to comment upon statements by Mr. Taylor that Protestants would have to "get out" of Northern Ireland if the Irish Government became involved in its affairs. I want to assure the decent respectable people of Northern Ireland, be they Protestant, Catholic or whatever, that all we seek is common cause and purpose. With regard to the notion which this gentleman, who recently deliberately offended the Tánaiste, has been trying to put out, it would help if we could express that common purpose here. In that sense, I ask the Leader for the opportunity to have a debate.
I share the concerns voiced by Senator O'Toole on the recent report on the incomplete education of a substantial portion of Irish children. Education is not just a passport to a job; it is also the passport to full citizenship of this State. Despite the great advances which have been made in education over the years by various Ministers, of whom the most effective were women, we cannot allow that situation to continue any longer. I support the call for a debate so that we can make the linkage between a proper education, a preparation for life and the resources which need to be devoted to that particular area.
Senator Ormonde should wax slightly less indignantly and stop this charade of pretending that any Minister in any Department can be responsible for every operational matter; sometimes thousands of staff may be involved. That is a nonsense and the quicker the highly paid people who make those decisions take responsibility for them, the better this country will be governed.
I want to reiterate a request Senator Wright made last Thursday, and to which the Leader responded, for an imminent debate on broadcasting. I want to reiterate that request as a matter of urgency, primarily because of current events, specifically, the Independent Radio and Television Commission hearings last week, which indicate that a decision on granting a new national radio licence is imminent; the question of TV3; the comments which were widely reported over the weekend as to the shape, format and operating procedures of Teilifís na Gaeilge, which will involve taxpayers' money; and the vote last night in the British House of Lords which overwhelmingly defeated the Government on the important and relevant question to this island of the listed important events which have been negotiated and are now owned, effectively, by satellite television. Due to these various points and in the absence of a further discussion paper, which was originally promised following the publication of the Green Paper and which is not now going to see the light of day, from the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, I do not think this House will have any further opportunity to discuss broadcasting issues which impinge on a significant proportion of the population in advance of the Minister's legislative proposals. That is unfair.
A question to the Leader.
It is dangerous and, as it is in this forum that many of these debates take place, I do not believe this House should stand by without having an input into the future shape of Irish broadcasting and the impact it will have on public service broadcasting. I appeal to the Leader to prioritise Government time for a debate on broadcasting and name a date for such a debate. Otherwise, I will reluctantly have to get to my feet on every Order of Business until such a date is granted.
I join with Senator Dardis and Senator O'Kennedy in requesting a further debate on crime. As was correctly pointed out, we had an excellent and helpful debate last week in which there was general agreement on many of the different approaches and policies.
It is important that we have a debate in which people can outline different points of view so that we can come up with some positive motion which would be of benefit to the Minister, the Government and many people who are concerned about the situation.
I also call on the Leader for a debate on energy. There are many changes occurring with regard to energy, energy sources, etc. This issue affects my constituency to a larger extent because of the presence of the ESB and Bord na Móna. Senator Daly tried to raise the matter but it was ruled out of order due to lack of ministerial involvement. However, the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications would have many interesting views that we would like to hear and he would have the opportunity of hearing people with different viewpoints which are also relevant to developments in energy. I would appreciate an early debate on this matter.
I support Senator Ormonde's request for the Minister for Education to come to the House to discuss the problem with examination papers. I also congratulate the teachers and parents in the Ursuline Convent. Sligo. The Ursuline Convent has always upheld high moral and educational standards and I am sure that motivated them to see this matter through to the end. I have been told that the Minister was informed verbally on 3 November last year about this matter. I ask her to either contradict or admit that, from that date until now, this matter was left stewing and that there was——
A cover-up.
There was no cover-up then. If the matter had been brought to a head at that time, those children would not be in the position in which they find themselves today. It is very important that the Minister come to the House and answer questions. I am sure parents throughout Ireland will be eternally grateful to the Ursuline Convent, Sligo, for highlighting this problem. I ask the Minister to set up a private commission to re-examine papers where questions arise.
We are not discussing that matter at present. The Senator is looking for a debate on the issue.
People should be entitled to such a system.
I read in the newspapers during the week that burglar alarm firms surveyed premises, passed on the maps of those premises to other parties and the premises were later burgled. If this is true it is no wonder we have such a large number of burglaries. People are getting into premises on the pretence of wiring them up for alarm systems but instead pass on that vital information. This is a serious matter; crime is out of hand in this country.
With regard to the poor man who was shot last night, it is time the Government took off the gloves and came to grips with crime.
A question for the Leader.
A decent man cannot sit in his house at night with his wife and family without being in fear of a criminal breaking into the house and shooting him.
A question for the Leader.
When will the Minister for Justice come to this House——
She was here last week.
——with a Bill? Stop this dilly-dallying and heeding the do-gooders. We know the people of rural Ireland have their hearts in their mouths——
The Senator has made his point.
——from morning to night. People are going to neighbours' houses to sleep. It is time we did something about this crime problem.
The Senator has made his point. I ask him to resume his seat.
No old person should have to leave their house to go to a neighbour's house to sleep at night; even that is not safe. It is time the Minister——
Senator Farrell, I ask you to resume your seat.
——did something about this very serious problem.
I concur with Senator Farrell. This is an emotional issue in rural Ireland. A Member on the Government side has sought ideas for the Minister for Justice. I offered three ideas the last time she was in the House. I call on the Minister to re-open all the Garda stations in rural areas on a fulltime basis, as they are in the cities.
It is an awful pity so many of them were closed.
The Minister appears to be open to change and I admire her as a Minister. The re-opening of the Garda stations is urgently needed; that single suggestion from this House would lay to rest many of the fears of decent people throughout rural Ireland.
Does the Leader intend to have a debate on broadcasting this month? It has been on the Order Paper for the last few months and such a debate in the near future would be timely. I also asked the Leader to do something about pirating. Since I raised the matter there has been a great deal of coverage of it in the media. The problem is under-estimated by the Government and I ask the Leader to put aside three hours to discuss the matter. If the Minister wants the detailed information I have, I will be delighted to give it to her immediately. There should be an urgent debate on this issue because many jobs are being lost.
I wish to be associated with the expression of sympathy to the Fanning family on the tragedy that occurred last night. I also wish to underline, as we did last week, the widespread fear at present in rural communities and the necessity to take remedial action to deal with this situation before there are further incidents like this one.
I support Senator Enright's request about finding a mechanism whereby we can discuss the ESB, which is currently running into difficulties. Last week I endeavoured to raise this on the Adjournment. Although such attempts have been ruled out of order, the Minister has responsibility to sanction some of the agreements reached between the ESB and its staff. The Government must sanction price increases for the company in connection with this package. The Minister has responsibility for the Government's input into a decision on generating capacity. Any plans dealing with energy generation which may be drafted by the ESB will have to be approved by the Minister. We cannot raise this matter on the Adjournment on the grounds of lack of ministerial responsibility but the Minister is up to his neck in this issue and he cannot evade his responsibility.
Another cover up.
The Leader should endeavour to have the Minister come to the House so that we can find out what are the generation plans. I advise Senator Enright to be cautious of the suggestion that a new generating station will be built in the midlands and will create many jobs.
We are not discussing this issue now.
The intention is to make hundreds of ESB workers in the midlands redundant. The suggestion of a new station is a smoke screen to confuse people.
We thank Senator Daly for his help.
I made a small error when announcing the Order of Business. I was unaware that when the debate on agriculture concluded last Thursday Senator O'Brien was in possession and he was told he had 18 minutes left to speak. I propose that, even though other Members may speak for ten minutes, Senator O'Brien should not be deprived of the time allocated to him last week.
The point raised by the Leader of the Opposition is reasonable. There is a growing consensus that there should be a debate on Northern Ireland. The emphasis of such a debate should be, as Senator O'Sullivan and others suggested, on the reports of the Mitchell commission and the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. A debate on Northern Ireland would be helpful and I will endeavour to arrange one at an early stage.
I support the point made by Senator Wright on Sellafield. Senator O'Toole raised the question of the report on school drop outs and unemployment. This issue could be discussed during Private Members' Business and I will try to make time available for this later in the session. It is my recollection that we had a debate last session on the differences between the live register and the unemployment survey. I may be wrong but I will check this out.
Senator Dardis and Senator O'Kennedy mentioned the horrific murder in Tipperary yesterday. All of us would like to support the eloquent words of Senator O'Kennedy and express our deepest sympathy to the decent good people who have suffered a great loss. I hope this problem can be brought under control and that the perpetrators of that foul, cowardly and horrific deed last night will be brought to justice. Senator Dardis raised the question of a debate on crime. There is a need to come back to that subject as soon as possible. Many Members did not have an opportunity to speak on this last week and some of those who spoke have other things to say.
Senator Ormonde and Senator Farrell raised the question of the errors made in correcting the art papers of some leaving certificate students. The most reasonable thing to do would be to allow the report into what happened to take its course. We all agree that this should not have occurred and should not happen again. However, in the nature of life such mistakes can be made. When the report is published, I will be happy to make time available for a discussion on it but, in the meantime, we should await the facts. I will also take up Senator Ormonde's point on Youthreach.
Senator Norris asked about Raoul Wallenberg. I was not on this side of the House when the Senator raised the question of giving honorary Irish citizenship to him. I am not sure of the procedures involved. Perhaps I can discuss this matter with him later or maybe he could put it down as a Private Members' motion to see if the strength of feeling and opinion which he thinks exists is there.
Senator Cregan raised the question of Irish Steel. A Bill will be published on Irish Steel in the next few weeks which will give us a full idea of how to meet the needs of what was resolved and also give us an opportunity to have a full debate on the matter. The Senator also asked about the VHI. The VHI Bill finished in the Dáil this morning. We will have it here shortly and he will then have an opportunity to contribute on it.
Senator Mooney and Senator Cassidy asked about broadcasting issues. There will be a debate on that matter in the next couple of weeks. I have spoken to the Minister about that and he will be happy to attend.
Senator Enright, who is always helpful, asked about having a debate on energy.
Why should he be specially commended?
Senator Daly also raised that issue. I will consult with the Minister and invite him to discuss it in the House. I am sure Senator Enright will be pleased with this.
I dealt with the points raised by Senator Farrell. The question of burglar alarms does not arise here. If the Senator has information about this, I am sure he will pass it on to the relevant authorities.
Senator Cassidy mentioned rural crime and I will pass his suggestions on Garda stations and pirating to the Minister.
Order of Business agreed to.