Criminal activity is not defined. We encountered this conundrum when dealing with the child sex tours legislation. It is extremely difficult to draft a provision to make something done by an Irish citizen in a foreign jurisdiction a criminal activity. What about somebody who is a citizen of a foreign jurisdiction, who is resident in Ireland, who has committed criminal activity in that foreign country and now has assets in this country? Obviously, one would like to seize those assets without extradition. Would one have to establish that it was a crime under the law of the foreign country or would it be enough simply to show that it was a crime under Irish law? I would be afraid that if it could only be an activity that is criminal under Irish law that would not be sufficient.
Criminal Assets Bureau Bill, 1996: Committee and Final Stages.
There is a series of international and bilateral agreements on co-operation. The Taoiseach at the Dublin Summit talked about the establishment of Europol which is designed to enhance and reinforce that activity. Double taxation agreements of their nature are structured and tightly focused.
If the trail of investigation here were to lead to somebody who had accumulated many assets but who was a national of another country and had not manifestly or directly engaged in criminal activity here but in some way was related to it, the suspicions of the bureau's investigators could be rapidly conveyed to the jurisdiction from which the person originated or where the money was suspected to have been accumulated. If it appeared that the equivalent of the CAB in, for example, France confirmed that Mr. X was a doubtful suspect and that the French authorities would like to talk to him, the CAB could exercise its powers on foot of a request from the national authorities of the country concerned. That is my understanding but we will have to clarify it.
We should. We would not like to have to go through Interpol or a cumbersome extradition procedure to seize assets in this country which were gained by foreign criminal activity. If there is an ambiguity in the definition, or lack of definition, it should not operate in favour of the criminal. We are not trying to hold up the passage of the Bill but if that point was examined and found wanting, the definition should be inserted in another Bill to complement this one. The issue should be addressed.
We are in the process of ratifying a number of co-operation conventions. Drug trafficking is a criminal activity, irrespective of the nationality of the person engaged in it or the location in which the activity took place. The reinforcement of those conventions will mean that a crime committed in jurisdiction A can be prosecuted in jurisdiction B. We are satisfied that we do not need the explicit definition the Senator has suggested. I understand from the Department of Justice that the belt and braces process of the various ratifications taking place will ensure that the possible doubt of interpretation which could be used by a successful defence lawyer will not lead to a technical dismissal of the case.
Has a date been set for the establishment of the bureau? Will it have its own headquarters and, if so, will the public be free to enter the premises or will the public deal with the Garda Síochána, the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Social Welfare?
The Bill will be enacted as soon as it is signed by the President and a motion for earlier signature has been sought and granted. The bureau is already up and running on a non-statutory basis. It has a staff of 27. It is currently located within the complex of the Garda Síochána. For the same reasons of anonymity referred to earlier, I do not propose to say anything further. It is not the intention, although it is a matter for the operational management of the bureau, to put up a brass plaque and invite members of the public to call. If people wish to communicate information, the existing law enforcement structure, the Garda Síochána, is the institution to which they should report. The Garda will pass on that information. People can also communicate through other channels. However, the idea that the bureau would be manifestly seen as a stand alone operation with a public profile would be contrary to what we have been trying to do.
There should be some compulsion on personnel in statutory agencies, for example, Revenue officials, social workers, housing officers in local authorities and community welfare officers, to co-operate and to notify the bureau of anything that comes to their attention.
I agree. However, that would be a change of culture. The anecdotal story about the man leaving the roof of the Garda station to sign on to claim the dole and who returns to the station to continue his painting work is true. There was no compulsion on the gardaí to report that clear abuse of the social welfare code to the Department of Social Welfare. That culture will have to change. The concept of felon setting was fine when others were running Dublin Castle. Now that we elect our own Government to run the institutions of this Republic that kind of attitude is counterproductive.
Is the word "Bureau" in the title appropriate? We are talking about a criminal assets agency. As I understand it, a bureau is an office. I accept that an exchange of information is involved but an agency is an active body which will intervene.
What about the FBI?
Do we really want to model ourselves on the FBI?
The name did not come about by accident. It was considered to be the most appropriate name by the various institutions coming together to operate it. I wanted an effective body that could address the issues. People wanted the name to be defined in such a way that it would not be confused with any other kind of activity at home or abroad. However, as it is the emblem of my party, a rose is a rose is a rose.
The Irish version of the name is very difficult to pronounce.
I thank the Minister for clarifying the issue of identification. The media should be notified of this provision. It is essential and only right that the identification of members of the bureau should be confidential. I stress the importance of keeping the identification of members of juries confidential. I ask the Minister to ensure that some action is taken on this.
I am happy to take the point made by Senator Burke. We will ensure that when the bureau is established on a legal basis this provision is properly communicated to the media, including local radio and newspapers. I apologise to the Senator. I did not refer to the point he raised on Second Stage about the intimidation of jurors. One of the reasons we have a Special Criminal Court and the Offences Against the State Acts is because of the danger of intimidation of jurors. Perhaps that issue can be looked at in the context of the reform of the offences against the person legislation that is under consideration at present. However, the same people will exercise the same degree of physical terror against anybody whom they think might be part of the process and jurors are an essential part of the process of justice. I take the point and I will convey that to the Minister for Justice.
I welcome the fact that the Minister so unequivocally identified the truth regarding the amnesty and the reality that it never applied to illegal gains. Anybody who had anything to do with the amnesty or who assisted a constituent at any stage would have been aware that, in correspondence, they were warned specifically that the amnesty did not cover money that had been illegally gained. It is a great pity that Senator Sherlock, who knew the truth to be otherwise, insisted on peddling something which was a disservice to our intelligence in this House. I compliment the Minister and thank him for his clear and unequivocal refutation of what Senator Sherlock said.
I thank the House again. It is a pleasure to come before you. I try to make a point of taking legislation to this House myself because of my respect for it. I do not say this by way of plámás, but to recognise the contribution this House has made to any legislation that I have had the honour of bringing before it. Perhaps it is also a reflection of the fact that I served part of my apprenticeship in this Chamber.
Has the Minister any desire to come back to it?
I have no desire to return. I assure the House that this Bill on its own should not be seen as the sole instrument in the fight against drugs and crime. It complements legislation that is already on the Statue Book and other legislation which may be necessary. The bureau will be on a much stronger footing now and will now be able to initiate actions which we could not take previously. I appreciate the speedy way in which the Houses of the Oireachtas have responded to this legislation. I know the Bill will be enacted as quickly as possible so we can continue this fight against drug barons and crime.
I compliment the Minister on this Bill. It is fine legislation. As he said, it is just part of a block that we are putting in a wall. I hope the wall will help us to reverse the tide of criminality in this nation. I thank the Minister for his generosity in recognising that this is of equal concern to people on all sides of both Houses. I wish the members of the staff of the various agencies that are coming together in the bureau all the very best and I hope their efforts meet with speedy success and that they and their families are not in peril as a result of the service they seek to give to the nation.
I wish members of the bureau the very best of luck in bringing about the real changes provided for under this legislation. I compliment the Minister for taking the Bill through the House, his staff and those involved in bringing about this legislation. He did not spare any of his time and his depth of knowledge of the Bill is unbelievable. I am delighted that this Bill has passed through the House. It will be of great benefit to the ordinary person on the street.
I, too, compliment the Minister and the people involved in framing this Bill and bringing it to the Oireachtas. I thank all Members of the House for their co-operation. Everybody understands the responsibility involved in enacting this Bill. I hope the bureau will do a good job and that Ireland will be a better place in which to live.