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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Feb 1997

Vol. 150 No. 1

Local Government Funding: Statements.

I am delighted to be back in the House to discuss one of the most important issues which falls under my remit as Minister for the Environment. A "hot political potato", a "thorny problem", a "minefield", "a hornet's nest", a "poisoned chalice"— these are just some of the terms used in the last few decades to describe the issue of local government funding. Is it any wonder that successive Governments and Ministers for the Environment have, if not altogether turned their backs on the issue, pushed it to one side? I believe the issue, while often contentious, is too important to be ignored. I am pleased to have Government approval for and to have published radical proposals, and of the opportunity to discuss them in this House.

There is no need for me to go into the history books to examine the reasons for the decline in the finances of local authorities although, given the year that is in it, such an option is not altogether unappealing to me. Suffice it to say that over the last quarter of a century or more local authorities have seen their financial position steadily worsening with little, if any, prospect of improvement in sight. The local authority funding base was, and is, too narrow. There was little buoyancy. New functions were continually transferred to local authorities without the appropriate transfer of the wherewithal, that is, the funding, to carry out those functions.

Local authorities were largely at the mercy of central Government for financial resources. They were never sure how much rate support grant they might receive from one year to the next. The rate support grant did not always keep pace with inflation and in some years it decreased rather than increased. Local authorities were often expected to adopt their annual estimates of expenses without knowing how much rate support grant they might be allocated from central Government. This was untenable and it was, in truth, unreasonable of central Government to expect them to do so. The position on local authority finances had come to such a sorry pass that by 1996 they had built up a revenue accounts deficit of about £120 million.

We all know what the practical consequences of this funding shortfall are. There has been little, if any, discretionary spending. The level of service being provided in all areas had to be cut to the bone. In some cases services had to be cut out or abandoned altogether. Perhaps the most obvious and contentious example was the degeneration in the state of our county roads.

It was against this background that the Government undertook in its programme for Government, A Government of Renewal, to commission a professional study on local government funding to see how we could introduce an improved system, “a fair, equitable and reasonable funding system”, as the programme put it. Within a matter of months I had engaged KPMG to carry out that study. At the time, of course, the sceptics and those who knew it all suggested this was nothing more than a cynical exercise on my part, a delaying tactic, an excuse for inaction and a report to add to the many others already stashed on the shelves of the Custom House library.

The task set for the consultants was, in a sense, to set the agenda for change. I asked them to look at local authorities' existing and future requirements and to evaluate the capacity of the then existing systems to meet those requirements. The consultants carried out in-depth research, both in Ireland and internationally, into current local government practices. The study involved extensive consultations with officials of my Department, the Department of Finance and representatives of local authorities. An advertisement was placed in the national daily newspapers inviting submissions from interested parties. Incidentally, such was the interest in this subject that over 60 submissions were received.

The consultants examined a range of funding options, including a local property tax, a local income tax, a system based on Government grants, a system based on charges, a poll tax, the assignment of central taxes to local government and a local sales taxes. Each of these proposals had certain advantages and disadvantages. The study highlighted for me that there is not one obvious right formula to fund local government. There are probably as many views in this Chamber on the ideal way to finance local government as there are realistic options to be embraced.

Having looked at the expenditure requirements of local authorities up to the year 2000, the consultants concluded that, if we wanted to do so, we could limp along with the existing system for a number of years by injecting some modest additional resources into it. Once the report was published we stood at a cross-roads. Did we stay on our existing course or did we change course? Everybody agreed that the system was not satisfactory. However, while we all agreed that there was a problem, there was little agreement, locally or nationally, on the right solution. This is a sensitive and contentious issue. There are no easy options.

The easy thing to do, and the thing the sceptics would have expected me to do, was nothing. Perhaps we could have commissioned a further study, to have an in-depth analysis undertaken on each of the funding options thrown out. That would have taken more time; paralysis by analysis. Perhaps for the benefit of the optics and even the sceptics we could have made one or two small changes while keeping the system ticking over as it was.

When I was appointed to the Custom House I said that, in addition to my title and responsibility as Minister for the Environment, I also saw myself as the Minister for local government. I committed myself to pushing ahead with local government reform and to putting local authorities on a sound financial footing, once and for all. As such, I was not prepared to take easy options that carried little political risk and amounted to a minimalist approach. Such a course of action would have proved the sceptics right but, even more seriously, it would have left the future of local government without scope or hope.

On 19 December last, and with Government approval, I launched a new programme for the development of local government entitled Better Local Government — A Programme for Change. I arranged to have the document widely circulated, including a copy for Senators. I hope they have had a chance to read it because I believe it to be the most ambitious, wide ranging and at the same time practical and concrete political agenda for local government to have been put forward for a long time.

Some Senators may think that I should be more humble about this programme. If so, I apologise, but I believe it is one in which the Government can take pride. It is a programme to take local government into the next millennium, with confidence and hope. Many Senators will also be aware that my own background is in local government. I have seen at first hand the problems that befall local government. I have also seen its potential and I believe it is the key to unlocking that local potential.

The programme is based on four core principles: first, enhancing local democracy and widening participation; second, serving the customer better; third, developing efficiency in local government and, fourth, providing a proper funding system for local government to enable it fulfil its role. Over the last few weeks, I have attended a number of regional seminars on the new programme to present and discuss it with local authority members and officials. Before I concentrate on the funding aspect, I will briefly share with Senators some of the ideas on the overall integrated package which I have brought to local authorities.

The first major plank of the programme is the enhancement of local democracy. Democracy demands more than simply holding elections every few years. It is about choice and empowerment, empowering people to govern themselves. The democratic process in Irish local government has its roots in the earlier part of this century. Unfortunately, it has not developed with the times to the extent that is demanded and required.

The new programme sets out to modernise and address the shortcomings of the local democratic process through a range of measures. For example, the Government will support constitutional recognition for local government for the first time; Ireland will ratify the European Charter on Local Self Government and measures are being taken to do that immediately; local government will be represented on the National Economic and Social Council for the first time; the corporate position of councillors within local government will be strengthened through the establishment of strategic policy committees which will enhance their political and community leadership role and involvement in local government will be broadened through the participation of community, consumer and other interest groups and local development bodies.

The programme also contains a number of specific measures to develop better links between local authorities, State agencies and Departments. Co-operation and partnership must become a feature of how we do our business if we are to succeed in improving the way our democracy works in practice.

Local government is a major player in the business of modern Ireland. It has some role to play in every acre of the country, whether that is in the planning or environmental control area, the provision of services or the development of infrastructure. It spends approximately £2 billion a year and employs 30,000 people. Any business of this magnitude must deliver high standards of service and achieve efficiency in the delivery of that service. The Government demands that of local government and the public expects and deserves it. Local government exists to serve the people and that is as it should be and it must do it in a way the people want, not in a way the authority wants or management requires.

Huge strides have been taken in recent years to make local government more people, more consumer and more citizen oriented. As I acknowledged at the regional seminars, local government, councillors, management and staff all work exceptionally hard and have a commendable public service ethos and a commitment to the betterment of the communities they serve. The new programme is designed to build on that commitment and to ensure that citizens, the local government customers, are provided with efficient and user friendly services.

All the measures in the programme are quality measures in the last analysis. These include the new tier of programme managers, plus the community and consumer representatives on the strategic policy committees; the performance indicators, service standards and one stop shops which will be created; the emphasis on co-ordinated services between town and county, county and city and county to county, and within local authorities themselves between different departments; the new Local Government Management Services Board which was created on 1 January 1997 and the increased investment in training and development. These measures are designed to improve the quality of service which is provided.

The initiatives in the new programme would be no more than a meaningless wish list if the necessary resources were not afforded to local authorities to provide the level and quality of service now expected of them. The new funding arrangement I am putting in place will ensure these initiatives can and will become a reality in a well resourced and financially sound local government environment for the future. One of the first things which must be said about the new funding system, and one of the principles which the Government accepted from the start of the process, is that there should be no major additional burden of taxation. The new system achieves that and does not involve any new tax. I emphasise that point for those who sometimes listen but do not always hear. It dedicates an existing tax income completely to local government and removes it from the Exchequer.

Under the revised arrangement, the power of local authorities to charge for domestic water and sewerage services has been abolished and the rate support grant is being terminated. The income to be foregone from these sources is being replaced by the proceeds of motor taxation. The KPMG study identified lack of buoyancy as one of the principal weaknesses of the existing system. This weakness will be addressed by the new system because motor tax income has proven over the years to have considerable in-built buoyancy. The early indications in 1997 are that car sales are again increasing at a significant rate and this is obviously good news for local authorities. It is a buoyant source of income for the future and our analyses show that it will remain so.

One of the major benefits in assigning a specific income source to local authorities is that it introduces a large degree of certainty as to the level of income an authority can expect from year to year — a characteristic lacking in the old system. An important element in any local funding system is that the local authorities should have a measure of discretion and, by extension, a measure of accountability, over the rates of tax levied.

Under the new system local authorities are being empowered to vary the national rate of motor tax on cars and motorcycles up to a maximum of 6 per cent. This is subject to a maximum of 3 per cent next year and 3 per cent the following year. The base for motor tax will be set centrally. Next year, each local authority can, if it chooses, vary it by 3 per cent and by a further 3 per cent the following year. However, the tax will stay at that level unless the base is increased centrally. The variation cannot exceed 6 per cent which will be the maximum increase allowable over the three years 1997-99. That is a reasonable and modest projected increase given that it has been a long time since there was an increase in motor tax and given the benefits for everyone who has been paying water or sewerage charges. It will be a considerable additional source of income for the local authorities.

The abolition of domestic water and sewerage charges was welcomed by many people. I do not have a problem with the principle of paying for services. Charges can be good; they may encourage the efficient use of resources, conservation and may be linked to environmental policy. However, I have a problem when the level of charges does not relate to the usage or the cost of provision. Charges for electricity, gas, telephones and public transport are all related to usage. Water charges were not, with the exception of the commercial sector where the water was metered.

Domestic water and sewerage charges did not bear a relationship to the cost of providing the service or to consumption. They were seen by many as a form of local tax. Under the charging system as it was, a luxury six bedroomed house with its own swimming pool would attract the same charge as a one bedroomed apartment accommodating one individual. That could not be considered equitable from any perspective.

Given that charges are not related to usage the Government took the view that they are, in effect, taxes and, accordingly, should be consolidated into general taxation. Charges will remain for commercial users of water as metering is economically feasible and users can be charged in accordance with consumption. Charges will also remain for domestic refuse collection services, which is important from an environmental protection perspective. It is important to establish the "polluter pays" principle and that there is a financial incentive for people to reduce the volume of refuse they generate.

While all local authorities have the same general functions, different local authorities have different expenditure requirements having regard to local demographic, economic, social and other factors. By the same token, the revenue generating potential of local authorities differs from area to area. The amount of the motor tax collected by the different authorities will vary, in some cases significantly, from the income levels generated by the rates support grant and domestic water and sewerage charges. Some local authorities will collect considerably more than others. All these factors meant that a transfer of resources is, and remains, necessary in order that every local authority, urban and rural, will benefit from these changes.

Under the proposed equalisation system, local authorities can retain 80 per cent of the proceeds of motor tax on cars and motorcycles and contribute all other motor tax revenues, including driver licence duties, to a newly established equalisation fund for redistribution.

The resources of this fund will be used in 1997 to ensure that the income lost through the abolition of water and sewerage charges and the rate support grant is made good, in full, to each local authority. The balance remaining will then be allocated as equitably as possible among local authorities, having regard to needs and resources. I want to stress that there will be no losers under the system. The size of the motor tax pool and its in-built buoyancy means that all local authorities will gain.

I will be deciding on the allocation from the equalisation fund later this year. However, it is my intention that within two or three years the Minister for the Environment and his Department will be relieved of this function. Instead, those who ultimately own the money in the fund, that is, the local authorities, should have responsibility for managing and sharing it. I am at present examining ways to see how this can be best achieved. I would hope that this fund would be administered separately from the Department of the Environment by an equalisation council in order that every local authority would get its fair share and be represented in the allocation. I hope no future Minister for Finance would view the fund as a pool of money to be dipped into.

Another proposal in the programme is the introduction of a community development contribution. This is an idea which was put forward in the report of the commission on town local government Towards Cohesive Local Government — Town and County published last June. The idea is that local authorities will be able to sponsor, whether on their own initiative or in partnership with the local communities or other groups, discretionary development projects or programmes which could not otherwise proceed within their normal available financial resources. For example, the contribution could operate where there is a project that the community wants to develop but where the local authority cannot afford to invest it, however deserving the cause. Such projects might include children's playgrounds, particular sports facilities, etc. For example, if somebody wants an all-weather track in their area and a local group has raised £200,000 but requires a further £250,000 towards the project, it would be possible for a partnership to be formed with the local authority which, with the agreement of the local community that would stand to benefit, would levy a charge to make up the shortfall over a number of years. It is an idea which has worked elsewhere. We are going to get legal power to do that.

The new funding system is but one of a range of reforms proposed in this programme. The thrust of the programme is to modernise the whole finance function in local authorities, to make it more transparent, more understandable and more accessible to the public. As a former member of two local authorities, on one of which I served with an eminent accountant, I can say that to read local authority accounts is a demanding occupation and one that even the most competent and literate of accountants would find challenging. We need to make them simple and understandable so that the public and the councillors understand every figure, dot and comma therein.

By way of illustration, I want to give three examples of measures contained in the programme which will be implemented to achieve the approach I have outlined. First, the revision of the existing accounting system which is based on legislation enacted almost 50 years ago to a more modern, business oriented, full accrual, double entry system. This will give authorities and their customers a better picture of the financial performance and true worth of their council.

Second, widening the scope and application of the local government value for money unit and giving it legal status. The idea is to move from the existing regulatory audit of local authority accounts to a more value for money approach that is the norm in business. Local authority auditors will now be empowered to examine the three E's — economy, efficiency and effectiveness, in local authority operations. This is, of course, similar to the enhanced role given to the Comptroller and Auditor General in 1993.

Third, a range of financial performance indicators will be introduced with the aim of improving local authority efficiency and performance. These indicators will also allow local authorities to demonstrate to their customers that they are cost effective organisations, using public money in an efficient and wise manner.

The document is a comprehensive one and I hope I have given Senators a flavour of where the Government is coming from, and hopes to go, on local government generally and on local government financing in particular. I am happy that the reforms we are implementing — and I want to stress these, they are not a further discussion document — are happening now, that the Bills are being drafted and I will be back later this session with the first of the local government reform Bills. I hope we have silenced the sceptics and that local government financing will no longer be talked about as a hot political potato or a hornet's nest. From now on, let us think in terms of opportunity and potential and let the area of local government financing become, dare I say it, a window of opportunity.

The Minister began his speech by saying he was dealing with a hot political potato, a thorny problem, a minefield, a hornet's' nest and a poisoned chalice and he has ended up with a total débâcle. Through his action he has created the greatest urban/rural divide in the history of the State. No Minister or Government, even if they did it deliberately, could have created the divide that we have at the moment between urban and rural people.

The country is up in arms about what the Minister has proposed. In the final paragraph of his speech, the Minister said that he hoped the sceptics had been silenced; he has not even silenced his own Government colleagues, one of whom, at a meeting in east Galway, said that he would not let the Minister or the council within a hundred miles of any of the group schemes in his area.

They must have been a great supporter of local government.

This was a Government Deputy; the Minister obviously does not have the support of his own colleagues in Government on this matter.

What is the Senator's view?

As far as I am concerned, the Minister has created a major urban/rural divide through his proposal and his statement. His announcement with regard to local government financing is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to the result of the Dublin West by-election.

The Senator has not read a line of the proposal.

I have read all of it and I have underlined many points which I wish to discuss. I have much to say about the Minister's proposal. As I said, his response was a political knee-jerk reaction to what happened in the by-election. At that time, a no service campaigner stood for election and he frightened the wits out of the Minister, the Labour Party and Democratic Left. They ran back to the Custom House and started putting measures together that would relieve them of the responsibility of taking on the Joe Higginses and others of his ilk at the next election. That is the bottom line as far as the Minister's response to local government finances is concerned. He has caused more problems than he has solved with his announcement on the group water schemes. He has effectively asked the rural people, through their motor taxation, to pay for free water, free refuse and free sewerage in the cities. This proves how out of touch he and his party are with regard to developments throughout this country.

The Minister hails from a rural constituency but he has obviously lost touch with his roots while living in Dublin.

What about county roads?

He has made no commitment other than stating that he will give £5 million to the 32 or 33 local authorities to bring the water schemes servicing 70,000 households up to standard before they assume responsibility for them. From calculations made by the finance officer of my local authority and others, I understand that £5 million would not be adequate to service the schemes in County Roscommon alone. I estimate that, with this level of finance, it will take 50 years to bring private group water schemes up to standard in order that the local authorities can assume responsibility for them. The Minister will no longer be in Government by that time and, unless he intends to remain in the Oireachtas as a pensioner, he will also have left politics. However, someone will be obliged to deal with this issue at a later stage.

I read the Minister's contribution closely and he was careful to state that commercial users will be obliged to pay for the water they use. The word "farmer" was not mentioned because it has bad connotations in Dublin. The general view of the parties of the left, Labour and Democratic Left, is that the farmers are rolling in money.

That is nonsense. The Senator should read my party's policy documents.

What will Fianna Fáil do if it comes to power?

The reality is that, as in the past, farmers will have to pay water charges. However, it might not stop there.

What will the Senator's party do?

I ask for protection from the Chair because I did not intervene during the Minister's contribution.

I did not tell fairy tales.

The Minister's election fairy tale will do him no good. Meetings are being held throughout the country and if he reads the local newspapers or asks his party operatives to visit each county he will obtain a picture of the droch scéil. His proposals are being criticised left, right and centre.

The Senator is doing his best.

Fine Gael Deputies and councillors attend the meetings to which I referred and they are doing down the Minister's proposals at every opportunity. That is the truth. There are knife marks on the Minister's back, put there by his colleagues in Government, of which he is not aware. However, he will become aware of them when reports begin to issue from his party operatives. Enough of that, however, because the Minister has ways to discover what is happening throughout the country. Not only councillors but some Deputies have distanced themselves from or voiced outright opposition to his proposals.

The reality is that farmers will continue to pay for water and they may have to absorb future increases imposed by local authorities. If such authorities are short of funds in the future, where will they obtain finance? There are very few areas where they can increase charges. The only available avenues are planning fees and water charges to commercial users and farmers.

In rural counties, such as Roscommon, there are a limited number of commercial users. There are some sizeable towns which are quite successful but the major input comes from the farming community. At present, farmers are obliged to pay £150 for water for their farms and a further £110 for water used in their households — which they will not have to pay in the future unless they are members private group schemes. However, if they are members of public schemes they will still be obliged to pay £150 for water for their farms. Local authorities must draw up their estimates in November 1997 or November 1998 and what will happen if a county manager states that a further £100,000 must be raised to maintain the services of the county? Consideration will have to be given to the areas, of which there are only two, where this money can be raised. The increase will either be imposed on rates or water charges. I am sure a balance will be achieved and the increase will be shared between both. As a result, farmers' water charges will continue to rise to maintain services.

If farmers are part of private group schemes, they will not receive anything. They must pay for water for their houses and land. They must also pay an increase in motor tax. Compare that with what will happen in the city of Dublin. A householder in Dublin does not pay domestic water, sewerage or refuse charges. When the Minister made his announcement he neglected to mention refuse charges because people living in the city do not pay such charges. However, each rural householder must each pay £60 in refuse charges. There is a total imbalance here because 70,000 householders in rural communities must pay for water for their houses and lands. They must pay refuse charges and an increase in motor tax, etc. All this to get the Minister off the hook by killing off the challenge in Dublin from candidates of the left who are standing on the service charges platform. That is the bottom line as far as this exercise is concerned.

With regard to the Minister's proposal to dedicate motor tax to local authorities, I would welcome it if the money collected was invested in improving roads. However, motorists will be obliged to pay for all local authority services while roads deteriorate. Members of local authorities will then be forced to explain the whereabouts of this money. The equalisation fund is the mechanism to balance finances. I believe that, with the exception of a number of wealthy urban authorities, the majority of local authorities will seek funding under this heading. There is nothing special in this fund for many counties.

The changes in flexibility in respect of local authorities, who will set out their own priorities and spending arrangements to allow them to levy special charges, are insulting. In areas where playgrounds, swimming pools, football pitches or any type of recreation facilities are required, local communities will be asked to invest the necessary funds and the county councils may then provide financial support. The situation will be worse than in the past. Until now, local authorities had a responsibility to provide amenity areas for school children, swimming pools, etc., albeit with the support of the Department of the Environment. However, the situation has deteriorated and people living in housing estates, who have already been put to the pin of their collars to provide for their families, will be asked to make a contribution to pay for the construction of a playground.

That is already the case.

This is a further imposition on the people rather than a solution to local government funding.

The real insult to local authority members is the Minister's proposal to demean and undermine elected representatives. He proposes that "Involvement in local government will be broadened through the participation of community, consumer and other interest groups and local development bodies." The Minister is driving the thin end of the wedge into the local government system. He intends to allow non-elected people, appointed by these organisations, to enter the local authority system. In the past the county committees of agriculture were undermined and interfered with on that basis and they disappeared as a result. This is the final blow and it is intended to kill off local government and in the future, a small Civil Service will operate local authorities.

The Minister said he was going to sign the EU charter on local government. About two years ago the country heard of another charter: the farmer's charter. One would not want to mention that in Roscommon or the midlands. I was at a farmers' meeting recently and the last thing they wanted to hear about was that charter. They are interested in the Minister going to Iran, Libya or elsewhere to find markets. The pious platitude of a local government charter is no more than what the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry tried to foist on farmers in a publicity stunt two years ago. Since then he has allowed their incomes to drop by 32 or 33 per cent, putting many of them on the breadline as they are unable to pay mortgages taken out to buy stock in 1995 and 1996 while the Minister has failed to get an Irish Ferries ship to take stock to other EU countries.

That is what the farmers want. They do not want paper and talk with nothing behind them. County councillors and the public are not interested in the Minister for the Environment's charter. They are interested in knowing if the Minister is going to provide proper services equally throughout the country and not go down the road he has gone, which has created the greatest divide in the history of the State between urban and rural people. That divide is a disgrace and this Government will reap the rewards of it. The Fine Gael members of Government will soon be up in arms about this matter——

They will pay a high price.

——because Labour and Democratic Left are not greatly represented in rural areas. There will be an internal Government revolt on this matter because they will have to respond to what is happening nationally. Meetings are being held nightly all over rural Ireland to start a political movement that will block what the Minister is doing. The Fine Gael members of the Government and councillors will support that movement before Easter; some of them have jumped ship and turned on the Minister already.

One Fine Gael Deputy in the west told a public meeting attended by 700 people that he would not let the Minister or his proposals within 100 miles of the group water schemes he organised in the east Galway area. There will be many more like him over the coming weeks, and with good cause. I do not see why a Minister, for short-term political gain and to keep people like Joe Higgins at bay, should get rid of water charges in Dublin. He has put no mechanism in place to get rid of them in country areas, other than creating a situation where only people with a domestic water charge from a public main will get relief. Surely that is unconstitutional. Does the Minister not think he can implement such a scheme? It will be challenged and the Government will pay the price.

The Minister says he will allow charges to be imposed for refuse collection. Of course he will; they are there already. Practically all rural local authorities have refuse charges to the tune of £60 to £70 per year; that service is free in the cities. Since nobody pays refuse charges in Dublin, this measure is also anti-rural. The reasoning is that the Minister does not want pollution in the country. The people of Dublin and other cities will have their refuse collected without having to pay but those in rural areas will pay because they are polluters and dirtier than the rest.

The Minister did not think out his approach to this matter. It was a kneejerk reaction to a political problem the Minister and the Left have in Dublin and has nothing to do with equality between urban and rural people. I ask the Minister at this late stage to listen to what is happening around the country. He should send people to the town halls and community centres to listen to what is being said. Then he can go back to the Custom House and treat the people in an even handed way.

Following Senator Finneran's tirade, it is fair to say this is an election year. I have rarely listened to a more depressing speech in this House. To suggest that the proposals outlined by the Government and the Minister in a programme for change add up to the issue of group water schemes is a pathetic observation.

They add up to Joe Higgins.

I am surprised that a senior Member of the House concentrates for 20 minutes on one specific aspect of a programme of reform without addressing the totality of the programme.

It is an election year and although the Senator is not standing, I would be interested to know if he and his colleagues in the Dublin constituencies support a reintroduction of water rates.

The Senator should not misquote me.

I am clear about what the Senator has said in his tirade and will be telling my constituents precisely that when the election comes; he should not tell other councillors in my area about his proposal.

It is important that we congratulate the Minister and the Government. It is 20 years since Fianna Fáil attempted to abolish local government. In 1977, Fianna Fáil did more to wreck local government and the standing of councillors than any other Government in the history of the State. It has taken 20 years to redeem that situation and that is why I am positive, as are the vast majority of councillors throughout the country, about these proposals. Of course they have to be worked on but at least now we have a coherent plan to bring local government into the next millennium, though that is no help to the performance of the Opposition when they have been in Government over the last 20 years.

People are cynical about politics today since much of what used to be done in local government cannot now be done because of lack of funding. Speaking to people about the issues that affect them, they regularly say local government does not provide essential services in the community and they are frustrated by this. We have not been able to fulfil the essential tasks over the past 20 years because of the decision taken in 1977, which most Fianna Fáil councillors, Deputies and Senators now believe was disastrous. We must cross this huge gulf.

Political cynicism is directly related to the performance and effectiveness of local government. If local government could do the jobs quickly and efficiently, political cynicism might be reduced. It is rampant because we cannot do the basic tasks properly. The Ombudsman's report shows that the greatest complaint over the past number of years was the performance of local government. This is a central part of our body politic. Changing local government, as proposed in the policy document, will go some way towards reducing political cynicism which is directly related to our performance as local authority councillors.

I said recently in another forum that, as a member of a local authority, I had more influence in policy making decisions than I have as a Member of this House. I have great respect for local government because it is one of the truest forms of democracy in that it responds to people. However, it has been poorly financed by all Governments until now. This Government is beginning to address the reform of local government for the first time in decades.

Let us look at the role of local government. Local councillors must make difficult political decisions about laneways, taxi issues, etc. These decisions affect communities, particularly if those communities are already divided. As a member of a local authority for the past two years, I have made more difficult decisions than I have in this House. Local councillors do not get the recognition the democratic system demands, although they make difficult choices. This leads to frustration, particularly if people cannot enforce change in their communities.

The Minister mentioned the KPMG report which sets out the challenges local government will face over the next 20 years. Local authorities spent £1.2 billion in 1995 and the forecast is that it will spent £1.4 billion by the year 2000. Local government will face financial burdens in the next few decades as a result of the infrastructure which the European Union has put in place over the past ten years. Changes in road transportation and in water and sewerage schemes and the introduction of environmental programmes to deal with our waste problem will cost huge sums of public money. It will be difficult to find this additional money. As the Minister said, we must find more money to increase these services or continue to rely on the present revenue base.

The KPMG report made a number of proposals in relation to property tax and local service tax. The Government is making revenue available to local authorities. The number of cars will increase over the next ten years and this will provide additional income for local authorities. The equalisation fund will help to overcome many of the difficulties referred to by Senator Finneran. It was rich of Senator Finneran to speak about the lack of consultation with local authorities and the knee jerk response to the Minister's proposals. This issue has been debated in local authorities for years. At least this Government is beginning to address the decay in local government.

One of the most important aspects of the KPMG report is that it sets out principles which local authorities must employ. For example, those responsible for spending money in an administrative year should also be responsible for raising revenue. Another aspect of any funding mechanism is that it should be easy to collect. The money required to collect the fee should not outstrip the amount brought in. That was not the case with water rates in my county council area. There should also be variability. I am a member of South Dublin County Council and two of the five most deprived areas in the country are within its administrative area. Any funding mechanism must be acceptable. There is no point introducing a new form of revenue if it increases general taxation. However, the Minister said it will not. The money collected from motor taxation will outstrip the revenue raised from water charges.

Since 1977 five changes have been made to local government funding, mostly to suit the political hue of central Government. That is not good for local government because there is no certainty as to the amount of money it will have from one year to the next. The Minister's proposals go a long way towards resolving that problem. Proposals to fund local government, as outlined in the policy document, will be acceptable to local communities.

The Minister's policy document refers to the enhancement of democracy, which is vitally important for many councillors because their status must be recognised. Perhaps this can be done by including in our Constitution a specific role for local government, by signing the European charter for local government or by ensuring that local authority members are represented on NESC. All the Minister's proposals in that area are directed towards ensuring that the role of councillors in politics and local government is recognised and that their status is not forgotten. Many councillors feel they have not been given the proper status as elected officials. That is something we are beginning to address.

I am very excited by the strategic policy committees which will mirror the main functions of the local authorities. For the first time they provide a proper interface between statutory and community groups and the local authority members. We need to be careful about this. There is a great amount of suspicion and prejudice between councillors and members of the statutory agencies. Many councillors feel that because members of the statutory bodies are not elected they do not share the same status. Equally, many members of the statutory groups feel that local authority members are not in touch with the problems that face their communities. By involving the councillors, community groups and statutory agencies in the new strategic policy committees we are beginning to address a model of local government that is fair to all sides. I welcome the corporate policy group which will introduce a sense of cabinet to local government for the first time.

The report mentions initiation of area committees. We have huge problems with representation throughout local authority areas. I live in Tallaght, the third largest conurbation in Ireland, yet it has no local authority base in terms of a town commission or urban district council compared to Balbriggan which has its own statutory area committee. We have to address the changes that have occurred in the demography of Ireland over the past 50 years. The situation of Tallaght needs to be addressed in whatever final proposals come from this process.

I am in favour of abolishing the dual mandate. I am a member of a county council and the Oireachtas but I do not believe that holding two positions is good for democracy. However, we are all victims of the electoral system. The only way we are going to finally rid ourselves of the dual mandate is by having a sensible electoral system which will ensure that it is not necessary to be a member of a county council to be a Member of the Oireachtas. I hope this issue will be addressed by all Governments over the next ten to 15 years.

The report looks at widening the role of local authorities. As members of local authorities we have to do more to bring on board all statutory and community interests. The partnership model has worked. It has shown, particularly in urban areas, a sense of leadership and purpose. It has included many of the groups that were hitherto excluded from the political system and that role needs to be encompassed within the county councils.

I am delighted that we are going to have statutory provision for consultation between local authorities and the local Garda. That is to be welcomed, particularly with the huge urban crime problems which exist. It is only proper that a response consultation unit exists between members of local authorities and the Garda.

There is no reason public institutions and local authorities, like private companies, cannot get an ISO 900. With the exceptions of Telecom Éireann and the ESB, in some of their operations, I am not aware of any publicly owned company which carries the ISO 900. Private businesses have shown through this award that they operate from the highest standards. We need very high standards in local authorities because there is a view in the community that the same level of response is not there for people making complaints to local authorities.

There are many other items raised in the report, particularly the review of local authority areas. The up coming electoral legislation proposes putting the new constituencies on a structured, statutory basis for European and Dáil elections. I see no reason for excluding local authorities. Why will an independent statutory commission be examining the Dáil and Euro constituencies but not local authority areas? There are many difficulties in terms of representation within the local authority areas because of changes in population.

I wish the Minister and the Government every success with their reforms.

I welcome the Minister and any hard words I have to say are not directed personally at him. I have the highest regard for him.

Senator Hayes is new to the House and that should not be held against him but he spoke about solving a 20 year old problem. The Senator has not read enough and is not here long enough to be aware of who introduced water charges before he started to comment on them.

The abolition of rates.

I was very interested in the Minister's comments. He began by saying this was a hot political potato, a thorny problem, a mine field, a hornet's nest, a poisoned chalice. The Minister has accepted all of this but he has taken the whole development of local authority into a cul de sac. I have been a member of a local authority ten times longer than the last speaker.

That is evident.

If the Senator is going on my appearance maybe it is. Nevertheless I have learned something on the way and I think the Senator has a few things to learn.

Coming from a county that suffered seriously as a result of recent changes, we are in a real dilemma. We do not know where we stand. An assessment should have been done to see what the substitution of water charges with motor taxation revenue would mean to counties in rural Ireland, not the city. As Senator Finneran described, we now have two tiers and two types of service. There are no water charges for the people who have footpaths, public lighting, access to shopping and lighting for churches. The people in rural areas have none of those services and they still have to pay water charges.

Donegal has 250 group water schemes and we do not have enough money to complete them and, with an average of 100 households per scheme, one can imagine the type of problems we have. We have had no funding to develop water sources and we buy water from Northern Ireland at a cost of £1 million every year. Removing water charges has caused major problems for local authorities because the arrears are now uncollectable. I do not blame Fine Gael or the Labour Party, I blame Democratic Left, and this is the price to be paid for satisfying them. This matter will not be solved quickly. Donegal has a large road network yet we are getting only piecemeal funding. Seventy three per cent of all funding allocated by the National Roads Authority is spent on by-passes for towns between Dublin and Belfast — only 23 per cent goes to the primary roads in rural areas. The Minister did not mention this fact. He called his brief a "hot potato" but the potato will get hotter before he gets it off his hands.

Small towns in Donegal have been waiting ten years for new sewerage schemes. The Minister announced funding for two sewerage schemes, £1.9 million in Ballybofey and Muff. However, the funding for these schemes was provided by INTERREG, not a single penny came from the Department. INTERREG funding is supposed to be additional, but, in this case it was substitutional. Every time Senator Maloney is under pressure he announces two sewerage schemes as if they were imminent.

That is called communication.

We have a long housing waiting list in Donegal. When the Minister of State visited the county recently she was delighted with the various programmes. However, like all ministerial visits, she did not tackle the thorny issues as recognised by the Minister in his speech today. She did not recognise that we have 19 caravan dwellers within a 12 mile radius, the condensation running down the windows has been responsible for young children's medical problems. I am not attacking this Minister because he is the best of the crop, but he has done nothing.

What is going to happen to the 250 group water schemes? I am asking the Minister to send a message to Donegal County Council nothing that the matter was raised in this House by me and that I want to know what he is going to do about funding following the abolition of water charges.

Rather than using INTERREG as additional funding for major development in the Border counties, the Department is using it as a substitute. This is wrong. The evaluation committee is looking at this and will report to the Government in a short time.

We have a serious problem in rural Ireland because of lack of funding for housing, roads, water and sewerage. Senator Hayes is correct when he says that it was never more difficult to be a member of a local authority. County managers and those responsible for spending are unsure what funding they will have. The Donegal county manager is implementing a programme of decentralisation; however, we have to raise loans to fund this. There is no funding for any development in rural Ireland and things are getting more difficult by the day. There is total confusion since the last budget which was a disaster for local authorities. If anyone doubts this, they should contact the rural county managers who do not know how they are going to finance developments this year. No Government which expresses an intention to review local government funding can be happy with this situation.

The role of county councillors has diminished yet their responsibilities have increased. While we are getting money from the Peace and Reconciliation Fund and INTERREG, the Department of the Environment has failed to match this. County managers are being called to the Department for meetings because there are serious problems. The Minister painted a rosy picture but this gives a false impression. He could have stopped after the first paragraph when he said that this was a "hot potato" and that he found himself in an impossible situation. I hope to see the day soon when the people decide at the ballot box that things could not be any worse than they are at present.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on the funding of local government because it is very important. I welcome Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, to the House and compliment the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Howlin, for the way he took on this difficult issue and solved it to the satisfaction of most people. I also compliment him and the other Ministers for the country's economic position which enables us to transfer motor tax revenue to local authorities to spend on roads.

I cannot let this opportunity pass without mentioning the role of the local authority. Recently, I asked the local school to write a report on the services provided by the county council, and it is now with the county manager. We spoke about water, housing, the disposal of waste, sewerage, etc. Some people involved in the county council were surprised to find that it was responsible for some many things. That is the importance of local government today, and it has always been so.

County councillors play a strong role because they are at the coalface, continually dealing with local problems and they must be respected for that. Over the years many of their powers have been taken away by successive Governments; there was mention of their powers being whittled away by the committees of agriculture, the health advisory boards, etc. Now, the National Roads Authority often tells the county council which road it must improve.

I must disagree with my colleague, Senator Hayes, about the dual mandate because the county council is often the training ground for future politicians. Many Members of this and the other House have served their time in a local authority and this practice will remain for many years to come.

The Opposition mentioned that there was no consultation. If they followed the Minister's speech, they would see that the KPMG report examined the facts and they were taken into account by the Minister before he put his plan into action.

The Minister mentioned a number of points which need to be repeated. He said that enhancing local democracy and widening participation were two of the important roles of local government; next came serving the customer better and then developing efficiency in local government and providing proper funding for local government. He went on to say that the Government would support constitutional recognition of local government, ratify the European Charter on Local Self Government and have local government represented on the NESC. All these important steps would bring local government into a national framework for the better of the areas which the local authorities represent.

I also welcome that the corporate position of councillors within local government will be strengthened through the establishment of strategic policy committees which will enhance their political and community leadership role. That will be an important function when it is developed.

In addition, the involvement in local government will be broadened through the participation of community, consumer and other interest groups at local development bodies. We are continuously dealing with people who have problems with local water supplies and want to develop their villages and rural areas, and this is what we need — local dialogue to get work done at a local level.

I was surprised at the Opposition's contributions. Some speakers seem to want to take two sides. They are nearly saying reimpose service or water charges. Do they want that? There is no good trying to approach local government with the urban/rural divide and speak of Dublin versus the country. That is not the right way. We must all work together. The 1985 local elections were fought on the issue of service charges. If some Members of the Opposition want to bring back local charges, they should say so because they did not want them then but later they participated in the decision to reimpose them.

The SIMI and garages were glad to know there would be no increase in the car tax. This was welcome from the point of view of sales.

It was said that in future local projects, such as swimming pools and community centres, must involve local contributions, but that has been the position for as long as I have been in public life — and the contribution is often as high as 25 per cent. I saw this in my town in 1970 when a group was formed to build a swimming pool and it had to come up with a local contribution.

In the Opposition's effort to negate the excellent work of the Minister, it failed to come up with any good points. They keep harping on a few little things. It is important that we realise the Minister has come up with worthwhile proposals which will be good local government.

Mention was made of group schemes. The Minister has undertaken to increase the grants for group water and sewerage schemes by 100 per cent. In addition, he told us that allowance will be made for people who are paying local authorities the equivalent of domestic charges through group schemes. That clears the air in many situations and there is no good trying to confuse the whole package with some small points which must be rectified.

I do not know why we are highlighting group schemes now because many schemes have been in trouble for many years — and I know this from my area. We must have extra money to get out of this dilemma. The schemes need to be checked and the local councils need help but it is wrong to state that their difficulties were caused by the abolition of water charges.

The Minister has taken it upon himself to fund local authorities from road tax. In the meantime, some people are saying that there is no money now and the system is a shambles. The Minister and the Cork county manager have said that the rate support grant will continue until the change-over takes place and the whole thing will be done smoothly.

The equalisation fund is very important because some local authorities may have difficulty raising revenue and this will help to balance their books. Some counties cannot raise the same level of road tax as others. Consequently, the equalisation fund is necessary. In giving this contribution to local authorities for free water services, for instance, unlike what happened in 1977 when rates were abolished, the Minister is not borrowing on the future of the country. When the Opposition says what the Minister is doing is wrong, we must remember 1977.

I welcome the widening of the role of local government and the close links it is hoped to forge with Leader, the enterprise boards and community groups. We must work together for the benefit of the people in our county areas. Since some areas are peripheral and must be handled in a different way to cities or towns, we need the co-operation and spirit of people like the enterprise boards, who are doing a terrific job, community groups and Leader groups. The Minister has the well being of all these organisations at heart and wants them to work together for the good of local government.

I congratulate the Minister for making an effort but, as Councillor John McHugh once said to a Leitrim county manager who had given a rosy picture to the council: "Manager, you have everything for the stirabout but the meal". The Minister has done the same — there is no word of how much this will cost and I have a dread of that. When the health boards were set up, we were told they would only cost a certain amount. Those boards were costed at the time — this scheme is not — but how many billions more do the boards cost now? Eventually they will collapse because we will never be able to keep them financed. We were told there would be new chief executive officers with management skills, programme managers and district managers, and that schemes would be customer friendly and customer oriented to provide greater health care. Where did it end? It costs us billions, more people are sick, waiting lists are longer and we are worse off than ever. That is how this scheme will end — with all the new programme managers and efficiency managers to be appointed, it will get out of hand. Undoubtedly this will be another Frankenstein's monster.

I appeal to the Minister to come down to ground level. Labour introduced the service charges and I have always supported and voted for them, even when it was unpopular to do so. When Fianna Fáil was in opposition on Sligo County Council I supported the charges. I always believed rates were unfair. I was a rate collector for some years and the fellow on the side of the mountain — to be politically correct, I had better say "the person" on the side of the mountain in case a feminist attacks me — had to pay rates, even though he did not have a boreen or a lane to his house and had to travel through fields and gates to his house, without even proper rights of way.

I believe one should pay for every service but if county councils ran public houses they would be expected to give pints for free — everyone expects the council to do everything for nothing. There has been much criticism of councils and many calls for greater efficiency, economy and effectiveness. The trend of the criticism is that county councillors are a crowd of messers, but who could do more on the meagre, miserable budgets they have at present? Look at the standard of the roads they maintain, the water schemes they run, the houses they build and maintain and all the other work they do on a shoestring budget. Would any private organisation do the same amount of work with so little money? It is time people stopped talking nonsense about councillors. There are a lot of brains on every county council because it is a cross-section of the community, elected by all the people. Hence it includes doctors, dentists, teachers, farmers, and the unemployed — every stratum of society is represented.

This is where we went wrong with the financing of local government. Local authorities are the only real, voluntary, elected organisations in the country and they should be recognised as such by Europe but successive Governments have failed to make that point. Much of the money given to what are known as voluntary organisations is going to ad hoc groups which are being set up with no mandate from the people. Those groups are getting more money than local authorities but what level of accountability attaches to that money? County councils always had to account for every penny they spent; what they spent was never a secret. Do we know how or where the local organisations are spending the money they get from Europe? Do we know about their overheads, travelling expenses and junkets? How much money do they spend on research? What is research but another form of junketeering? “Research and development” is a lovely heading which all the professionals can use but if a councillor goes somewhere to do research, it is called a junket. It is time people gave councillors the credit to which they are entitled.

When the health boards started no one wanted county councillors to apply for the jobs, they wanted people from the private sector to show how the boards should be run. In the end they were glad to have councillors and some of their best professionals and operators graduated from local authorities. Similarly, some of our best Ministers and Deputies graduated from local authority chambers.

The current buzz-words are "consultants" and "studies". At every council meeting the top table is full of professionals with slide projectors and maps, speaking for hours on end about how things should be done and costing a fortune. To give an example, the historic Drumcliffe Bridge in Sligo was designed by two junior engineers under the supervision of a county engineer. The bridge is still there and is sound. When a smaller bridge had to be designed for my village of Grange, over a far narrower river than the one in Drumcliffe, consultants had to be hired. The same two engineers are now senior engineers with Sligo County Council but they were not capable of designing a bridge 20 years later. If much of the money being given to consultants and studies went to local authorities, there would be work and money.

I do not know where this will end but another burden will be placed on the business community. They are providing most of our jobs in the cheapest and most efficient way possible, because they have competition. They will now be charged for water and they still have to pay rates. How can this be fair, if it will penalise some people more than others, particularly the business sector? Has this Government any respect for that community? When will it give them a break and stop piling the expenses on them? If everyone else is entitled to free water and other services, so should business people. A charge for sanitary services is included in the rates they pay and water comes under that heading. They are being charged on the double. Sligo County Council implemented the service charge from the beginning but we never charged business people for water because they were already paying for it through the rates. Business people should be given a chance to make a living.

I do not agree with the motor tax proposal because nobody has told us how much money it will raise and how much will be siphoned off. We know how much it is costing the council at present, but we do not know what we are going to get.

How much will the committees cost? We will have local, regional and national committees with local, regional and national chairmen. Where will the pyramid end? We all know what happens when a simple service is started. An officer is appointed who then wants a clerk typist. An assistant, a chief assistant, two clerk typists, a senior clerk typist and an administrator are then required. I congratulate the Minister for taking the bull by the horns but he will build a monster which cannot be fed.

Many families in rural Ireland have two or three cars. They will have to pay through the nose when it comes to this car tax. The Minister spoke about an additional 3 or 6 per cent. However, when councils impose that extra percentage many new cars will be registered in Dublin — one can register one's car in any county if one gives an address in that county. People will register their cars wherever the rate is cheapest. There will always be a cheap rate in Dublin because the volume of cars there means that a surplus charge will never have to be imposed. That will drive another wedge between rural and urban Ireland.

The group water schemes saved the Government millions of pounds over the last 20 years because people provided their own water schemes. However, water was provided free to people in cities. Now all of those in group water schemes want free water also, and rightly so. It would cost £20 million to provide water to all the group water scheme in my county and it would take at least five years to do it, working flat out with every available contractor capable of doing the job. When will this be done throughout the country? I believe it will take at least 25 years.

It was stated that the Minister will increase the group water and sewerage schemes by 100 per cent. However, increasing 1p by 100 per cent gives 2p. An expert once came to a little village in north Leitrim and called in all the farmers who had been looking for an agricultural instructor for a long time to tell them how good their year had been — this was in the days when the slogan was "One more sow, one more cow, one more acre under the plough". He said he was very pleased to say that, in the time he had been in the village, he had increased the sow population by 100 per cent. Everyone wondered where all the pigs were. When he was questioned he admitted that old Paddy so-and-so at the bottom of the village had had one sow the previous year but had two that year. Instead of talking about percentages the Minister should talk about what the ordinary countryman understands — actual cash. One hundred per cent of nothing is nothing.

Where will the Minister get the money to fund all these schemes which will have to be brought in over a five year period? People in my county have been paying £170 a year to group water schemes, and they were quite happy to pay. However, they have now been told they are fools for paying that money so they are going to stop paying it. There will then be turmoil because the system will break down. If there were meters on every water supply — as there is on the electricity supply — there would be fewer leaks and less wastage and it would cost local authorities much less. However, councils would never get enough money from the Department to meter everything.

I agree with the Minister about changing the system of accountancy. The eight programmes which local authorities have to go through are nonsensical. One year in Kerry the council decided to go ahead with its business but that was overturned by the High Court because the council had not gone through each programme individually. That is a waste of time. The health boards have a fairer system because they can spend their budget on whatever services they want. Local authorities should be given a budget rather than being given separate amounts for main roads, county roads, water and sewerage and so on, which is a waste of money.

Another area in which money was wasted, and which I do not think will be improved under this system, is where a county engineer decided what work needed to be done on roads. The Department had to then send another engineer — who wasted time driving from Dublin to Sligo, Kerry or Cork — to spend two or three days going around the area with the county engineer.

And played a round of golf.

Exactly. He did not have better qualifications than the county engineer, perhaps he had less. The Department should have accepted the professional judgment of the county engineer.

The local engineers in Sligo wanted to build a roundabout but the departmental engineer said there was no need for it. That led to a farce of a crossing when one tried to turn from the N15 into Rosses Point. After several accidents and hundreds of thousands of pounds of damages, they installed traffic lights. However, a simple roundabout would have solved the problem from the beginning.

I am sick of people saying county councils are inefficient. They are very efficient and doing a good job. The Minister and the brass hats in Dublin have been spending the money and it will be no different under the new system.

The more this debate continues the more cynical I become. Senator Farrell, a good friend of mine from the Yeats county of Sligo which I visit regularly, said that nothing has been said about the costing of the various programmes. He gave the impression that Fianna Fáil position on this debate was to oppose the Government on everything on the basis that the Minister has gone too far. The figures referred to by Senator Farrell are outlined in the programme entitled Better Local Government — A Programme for Change.

If all the programmes were put together they would make lovely reading——

The Minister has made a commitment regarding the allocation of motor tax revenue. It is unfair, therefore, to throw unsubstantiated figures and attacks on a Government that has finally moved on local government reform. Irish local authorities currently spend £1,250 million per year, which represents approximately 10 per cent of national public expenditure. The impact of local authority spending is seldom recognised as being the major force it is in the national economy.

For many years, the financing of local authorities was reasonably stable thanks to the effectiveness of the old rates system, when rates were paid by householders, farmers and business people. However, a combination of political decisions and legal challenges between 1977 and 1983 made huge inroads into the income from rates, leaving commercial rates as the only source of local income from property.

Many reports on local authority financing have been produced by bodies and organisations such as NESC, KPMG and members of the General Council of County Councils and the Local Authority Members' Association and it is important that definitive proposals be made on the future adequate financing of local authorities. While the Minister has grasped the nettle, he must ensure that the there is no shortfall for the county councils.

I thank the Minister for introducing two years ago the ten year roads restoration programme. Its completion should significantly improve the standard of county and regional roads. I also pay tribute to him for the huge increase in funding for national and secondary roads. He has launched an attack on the dreaded potholes, the bane of every rural councillor's life.

The Minister must be expecting an election.

Funding for roads in my own county has increased by 18.5 per cent.

It will not return the Minister.

While welcoming this huge increase in funding for national and county roads, I appeal to the Minister to look at national secondary road, which have hitherto been the poor relation of the roads network. While I am thankful that funding is now available for these roads, not enough is forthcoming. For example, the N63 is the main thoroughfare from Galway to Belfast via Roscommon. For the first time in 25 years an allocation of £200,000 was made for that road for improvement works. I welcome this, but in the context of the frightening statistics for this road, it is only a drop in the ocean. On a three mile stretch, leading from the village of Lackagh in Turloughmore to Annacross, which leads on to the village of Corrofin towards Tuam, 18 lives have been lost; five have been lost in the last two years and two in the past three months, one of them in the last five days.

This road was not built for the traffic it now takes. Unless further adequate funding is provided, not only for this three mile killer stretch but for the entire N63, more lives will be lost. There is a huge volume of traffic now using the road which leads to the city of Galway and where more factories are being opened, where the population is increasing and where increasing numbers are travelling from the hinterland to work in the city. It is time for the Minister to consider increasing the status of this road from national secondary to national primary.

It is incumbent on the Government to provide resources to the NRA, which is the funding body for national primary and national secondary roads. The Minister should also examine national secondary roads in the context of local authority funding with a view to implementing a programme of remedial action to prevent further carnage, especially on the N63 which, according to the relevant Garda authority, has the worst road statistics in the country.

I appeal to motorists using the national primary routes and the N63 to remember that they are not highways for speeding. It is impossible to travel at speed on the regional and county roads and while it is possible to travel at a certain speed on the national primary roads, it is impossible on the national secondary roads because of the huge volume of traffic from business and new houses now using them. Drivers using national primary routes must slow down and exercise caution and care. Perhaps people could make a Lenten resolution that they will slow down, take it easy and help to save lives on those routes.

I welcome the Minister's commitment to bring all group water schemes up to a proper standard with funding on a phased basis. However, I live in a rural part of the west where there is a group water scheme and there are problems and disappointments. The people in such areas feel they are being discriminated against. I will not chide the Minister or cast aspersions, but if householders in Dublin are not required to pay for water, members of group water schemes in the west should be in the same category. It is difficult to explain because it does not make sense. I appeal to the Minister to reconsider this discrimination.

The Minister has done much and he has passed the torch to a new generation of local authorities and councillors. He has gone further than any Minister in the history of the State in terms of helping the local authority system and introducing meaningful proposals. It is obvious that the Opposition parties which have called over the years for changes in the system of local authority funding, etc., are clutching at straws. They have latched on to the issue of private group water schemes and some say that that may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. However, that is not the case because I have confidence in the Minister for the Environment and the Government. Nevertheless, there is much bitterness and acrimony regarding those schemes and I appeal to the Minister and the Government to reconsider this matter. There must be a solution to this growing problem in rural Ireland and I am confident it will be found.

Senators who are members of local authorities are familiar with local improvement schemes which provide grants for roads leading to land, etc. Marvellous work has been done under the schemes over the years and great facilities have been provided for people in rural areas. They are valuable schemes but the amount of money made available to local authorities for them is minimal. For example, £240,000 has been provided to my local authority this year but, given the number of applications already submitted to the council, it would take six years to complete the programme of works under local authority schemes. The council in Galway is currently dealing with the 1991 applications. I appeal to the Minister in the context of local authority funding to give consideration to substantially increasing the allocations to Galway County Council and other councils as a once off gesture to ensure local improvement schemes are brought up to date and roads leading to farms and land are completed. This is an important matter and such a move by the Minister would be welcomed throughout the country.

Regarding the funding proposals, local authorities will, for the first time, be able to make use of locally collected motor tax money. I referred earlier to the amounts authorities collected in the past but sent directly to the Exchequer. The motor tax collection and enforcement machinery is well understood and established. However, a negative aspect is that local authorities will, have little or no independence under the new régime. They will be limited to a maximum increase of 3 per cent in 1998 and a further maximum increase of 3 per cent in 1999. There is no provision for increases after 1999 and local authorities will have to depend on the Government to set the basic national rate of tax.

How will the equalisation fund work? What criteria will be used to establish the levels of compensation the various counties will receive from the central equalisation fund? Who will operate the fund? Is there a case for an independent agency at arm's length from the Department of the Environment? The demands facing local authorities are huge. They currently spend £1,250 million and it is estimated that, by the year 2000, they will need another £250 million at current monetary values to cope with increasingly stringent EU standards. This is the funding gap which the 34 city and county councils will face in the next five years. The funding system must be able to bridge that gap while also giving local authorities a degree of independence in terms of how they do their business. Public acceptability and efficiency of collection are also major factors.

There is a famous historical phrase, "Remember Fontenoy" but, for me, it is "Remember Wexford". I recall the Taoiseach speaking to a gathering of councillors from round the country at a General Council of County Councils annual general meeting in Wexford and being applauded when he said his party in Government would tackle the system of funding for local authorities. He said a streamlined system would be introduced. The Taoiseach, the Minister and the Government have moved to restore confidence in the local authority system. For the first time there is real initiative and an effort to undo the wrong of the decimation of the local authority system which has been ongoing since 1977 following the abolition of domestic rates. That was a cynical vote buying exercise by the then Fianna Fáil group to win a general election but it was at huge cost to householders.

The Government is on the right track and I look forward to the growth in stature of the local authorities system. I hope it will gain further momentum under the Government over the next four to five years. However, during that period of great Government to which we can look forward and which will bring us into the new millennium, the priority must be the national secondary routes which are killer roads at present. I appeal to the Minister to apply himself, his team and the Government to eliminating deaths on national secondary roads, such as the N63 from Galway to Roscommon. I highlighted the dreadful statistics which show the number of people who have died.

I also appeal to the Minister and the Government to reconsider the group water schemes. The Minister has gone a long way in that regard and I am sure he can find a solution which will bring everybody on board. The Minister should provide sufficient funds on a once-off basis to clear the backlog of local improvement schemes.

These matters are important in the context of local authority funding. There is great interest in the debate on local authority funding. As a result of these initiatives, the local authority system will grow because the Minister and the Government have acted in the interests of the local authorities.

Local government funding has concentrated the minds of many Ministers for the Environment, although not always to a sufficient extent. The Minister, Deputy Howlin, told us he has grasped the nettle with his initiatives to reform the funding of local government, as he would have it. The greatest issue of concern to local authorities has been the level of funding and the difficulty of meeting an ever increasing demand for service with limited funds.

The removal of domestic rates in 1977 was a great mistake. Since then local authorities have paid the price. Many of problems faced by local authorities stem from the abolition of rates — a bad decision which was subsequently regretted. I do not accept that the abolition of service charges is a reform of local government funding as is suggested. Nobody would like to pay for a service if payment is avoidable. However, it is realised that the only way many services can be provided is if they are paid for. Whether they are paid for by taxation or by individuals who can afford it is a matter for decision.

I was involved in canvassing in last year's by-election in Dublin West. The decision to remove service charges was made because of the fright the left wing parties received after that by-election. They were terrified that an anti-water charges candidate almost won the seat and if that trend had been repeated in other constituencies in a general election, it would have had a damaging effect on the left wing parties. During the canvass I was astounded to discover that the owners of substantial houses with numerous cars in the drive would vote for a candidate whose main platform was the removal of water charges.

In my constituency, Laoighis-Offaly, I am sure most people would prefer not to pay service charges but they have accepted the payment of water charges over the years. There is a high compliance rate in the two county council areas because most people believe they get a good service from the local authorities. I am sure that is also the case in many other rural areas. These are areas which would not have third level institutions, a range of public transport services or many of the other services that people in Dublin or other cities enjoy. Yet, the people in the rural areas were willing to pay for a service which they valued.

It is extraordinary that people in Dublin's affluent suburbs would object to paying about £2 a week for an unlimited supply of water when they will pay the equivalent of £30 a gallon to buy bottled water in their local pub. It seems clear that if there is enough pressure against payment of a particular charge and a candidate runs in an election on that one issue, a Government can make changes. We need to stand up to such people.

The decision to abolish water charges has created discrimination between urban and rural areas. The Minister seems unaware of the existence of group water schemes. How else can he explain the removal of water charges for urban dwellers while leaving them in place for those in rural areas? It would not be acceptable if the Minister for Finance decided to cut the basic rate of income tax for urban dwellers and not for those living in rural areas. The Minister's decision is not sustainable — he must abolish water charges for everybody or nobody. The battle lines have already been drawn on the issue and the issue will intensify because this is an election year.

Rural dwellers feel discriminated against. The water charges will be replaced by motor tax as a revenue source for the local authorities. People in rural areas are more reliant on their cars because they do not have widespread public transport services and they feel they will have to pick up the bill for any increased charges. While I accept the Minister's statement that the funding of local authorities has been a difficult issue to tackle, the abolition of water charges will not help local authorities.

A sum of about £3 billion will be needed to improve our water and sewerage infrastructure over the next ten to 15 years. Where will the funds for these necessary improvements come from? In the greater Dublin area about 40 per cent of the total water supply is lost through leaky and defective pipes. It is ridiculous that parts of County Kildare, for example, experience water shortages in order to supply Dublin when almost half of that supply is lost through leakage. How will the investment in the system be funded if the main source of revenue in the form of local government charges is abolished?

The Minister referred to decentralisation and the adoption of a different attitude to local authorities. Local authorities have been and continue to be seen as providing local administration rather than local government. No genuine moves are being made towards reforming the system of local government. We live in one of the most centralised states in Europe. Virtually all the power is concentrated in Dublin. The local authorities have little or no influence on how their areas are run. There is local administration but not local democracy.

There is a belief that moving a section of a Department from Dublin to another area constitutes decentralisation. I disagree; that is relocation. While people in many areas are glad of the relocation of sections of Departments, it does not constitute decentralisation. A section of the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry is located in Portlaoise and a section of the Department of Education is based in Tullamore, both in my constituency. We are glad that the offices have been located there but we cannot claim that it constitutes decentralisation. Decentralisation would involve the transfer of the executive functions from the centralised bureaucracy in Dublin to democratically elected councils around the country. Decentralisation will only be totally effective if we firstly reform the way in which local government itself is organised.

Unlike most other countries in the developed world, the Irish system is unique in that at local government level we concentrate the power in the hands of unelected officials rather than elected politicians. This has to change. The European norm is for a city or district council to be headed up directly by politicians. This does not happen in Ireland. I do not think that what the Minister has outlined here today gives us any indication that we are going to see that sort of change here.

In Ireland we have a system where every local representative in every town and county is continually beating a trail to Dublin in the hope of acquiring what are known as "resources" for some local venture. This system, under which all largesse is doled out from the powers that be in Dublin to the deserving natives scattered around the country, smacks of the kind of colonialism to which this country was subject for generations under British rule.

We must be prepared to trust people to run their own affairs. All of us are aware of the tremendous spirit of communities throughout Ireland. It is this sort of spirit that gets sports fields developed, youth centres built and employment schemes underway. Through our attitude to local government, we are not harnessing that spirit fully. The potential for local development is not being realised. As long as we insist that "Dublin knows best", local communities will continue to suffer and rural populations will continue to decline.

I think it is remarkable that in the five years since the last local elections approximately half of the rural districts in Ireland have suffered a population decline. If rural populations are falling during a period of the most rapid economic growth in the history of the State, what is going to happen when the economic cycle slows down, as it inevitably will? We need to move away from centralism, which is stifling local initiatives in this country, and we need to commit ourselves to real devolution of power from Dublin to the regions. We need to recognise that where local decisions are concerned, local people do know best. When Dublin decides that it cannot accept water charges then the rest of the country has to suffer the consequences. The creation of an inequality in rural Ireland through the abolition of the water charges is unacceptable.

I welcome the Minister to the House to speak on this important subject. Most of us in this House have served, or are serving, on local authorities. I have been a member of Longford County Council for the past 18 years. The main theme on local authorities is that everybody wants more powers. When it comes to the crunch of getting finance however, there is always a problem.

The Minister has gone a long way down the road on this issue although he has not reached the end of the road, no Minister ever did with any particular reform. There is always something more for the next Minister to do. This Minister and this Government have made a major adjustment to the system. I do not think any local authority or any local authority member was able to see the logic of collecting car tax, sending it up to central Government in Dublin and getting that money back again. That did not make sense.

Let us make an effort to streamline the proposal we now have. It is natural that there will be problems and that politics will be played. When any Government makes decisions it is the duty of the Opposition, in whatever way they can, to cause mischief and to undermine the efforts which have been made. I, as a local authority member and everyone else here who has served on a local authority over the past 20 years, know the neglect which rural areas suffered. We only have to mention the county roads which were impassable; in the last two years there has been a marked improvement in this area. These are constructive moves afoot and the people living in the rural areas are now able to see, for the first time in 20 years, a major move being made to improve the conditions of the roads.

In 1977 and its aftermath, when there was to be no car tax, the car tax returned and there was less and less money being developed from Dublin for roads. The condition of our county road system collapsed and people were paying increased car taxes to travel on inferior roads. This year the local authorities are retaining the car tax and the roads have improved. They will be further improved as long as this Government stays in office. Local people have expressed their desire to me that this Government would stay in office in order that the roads would continue to be improved. That is the message I am receiving. I compliment the Minister on his work in this area. We do not want to return to the days where we talked about potholes and how to get rid of them. No action was taken on improving the roads until the past two years.

With regard to the group water schemes, we know that there is a certain disapproval about these. It has been said here today and in the national media that these proposals favour urban areas over rural ones. That is not true. There are many people in rural areas who are connected to public water schemes. We have to be definite about this. While it may be glib, quick and political to say that this is anti-rural and pro-urban, it is not true. Some people may feel that they have, to a certain extent, supplied their own water schemes with the aid of Government grants and may be aggrieved about that. There must be growing pains in everything and a major change has been made. I am confident that with a common sense approach, this matter will be resolved. Most rural areas I am aware of are on public schemes and where schemes are private, people are getting water from the county council mains. I wish the Minister well and I hope he will take the points I made into consideration.

I thank Senator Belton for sharing time. I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. Most people would agree that local democracy in Ireland has been a shambles for some time and I do not know whether we will return to the situation which existed in the past. The basic ingredient of a democracy is to raise taxes and obtain money to spend on services and other necessities. However, some of the ingredients that make up a good local democracy are missing.

One sometimes wonders about the public's awareness of what democracy should be. For example, I have been inundated with comments about the regional education boards. There seems to be a suggestion that these boards should not be established because they are an unnecessary intrusion. I do not believe this to be the case. The establishment of regional education boards will mean a small additional cost but they will improve local democracy to a certain degree. They will have some, though not all, of the ingredients necessary in this regard. I welcome their establishment for that reason. The vocational education committees do not have to worry because their position is guaranteed under the 1930 Act.

If we do not have good local democracy we will have the opposite — irresponsible local democracy — of which there is an ample amount. I joined my local county council in 1985 and I soon discovered that its members were simple supplicants for the people of the county we represented. We spent our time screaming at central Government for funds which were becoming scarce at that stage. We slowly became aware that there was a difficulty with public finances and we would not be able to obtain the usual scoop of funds each year. The fact that it took some time for this message to get through to us impeded the general public's awareness of the difficulties involved with public finances. This, in turn, made government very difficult.

We must seek a good system of local government but it is difficult to do so in view of the 1977 debacle. That event is part of history but it has set us back enormously. What is the meaning of a local election? It means that one knocks on people's doors, states that one is a good candidate and answers no questions other than those concerning the filling of potholes and the supply of clean water. One answers such questions by stating that one will batter the Government until it provides the necessary funds. A person seeking election to local government does not need to state his or her policy because they are not concerned with raising taxes or spending the people's money.

If I knock on a door during a general election campaign I might be asked questions about someone's income tax, PRSI, their children's education or other matters over which this House has some control. Local government has no such control. We merely shout and scream at central Government which is an aimless exercise and a sham. I do not know how we will return to the situation that existed in the past because most Members were not in politics at that stage.

I am amazed when I visit other countries and people say it is strange that there are no rates on private houses. They informed me that there has never been a movement in their countries to remove rates from private houses. The Irish are considered peculiar for this and destroying local democracy in one fell swoop. There is much to do to restore responsibility and meaning to local democracy. Were I to continue with the logic I used at the outset, my political opponents would have a field day and accuse me of being an ogre who wanted to reintroduce rates and other charges. Therefore, it would be better were I do proceed to other issues.

I welcome the Minister's actions in respect of water charges, which when introduced were merely a temporary, stop-gap measure. Opposition Members will recognise that fact, because at the time they opposed water charges but supported them on the understanding that they were temporary. Now that they have been withdrawn, there are suggestions from that quarter that the Minister should be damned. Previous speakers highlighted the dilemma in respect of local authority clients who receive free water—it is not free because it must be paid for in some way. Local authority clients will not be charged for the cost involved in supplying water but private householders on group water schemes in rural areas are still forced to pay. This dilemma involves basic equity and fairness, which are required in any system.

I sympathise with the Minister's predicament, but I am confident that while he may encounter difficulties, he will find a solution. As Senator Belton stated, the Government has shown a great commitment to rural Ireland and county roads are being repaired. This is the first time I have witnessed such an outstanding commitment since entering the House. I believe the Minister will find a solution to the dilemma in respect of water charges and I will put forward ideas as to how that should be achieved.

I welcome the Minister and I thank the Leader of the House, Senator Manning, for making time available for the debate. It would be hypocritical were I not to state that adequate time was not provided but, without further ado, I will proceed.

I welcome this debate but I believe the Minister's proposals represent the greatest piece of three card trickery I ever witnessed. He is trying to fool the people with his policy of "Now you see it, now you don't".

Senator Belton is returning to the House and he wants to change his mind about sharing time.

The Government is frightened because the share of the vote of one of the parties in power dropped to 3 per cent in the two by-elections in Dublin. Members referred to the abolition of rates in 1977, which for those living in rural areas and poor people was a tremendous development. It was also stated that water charges were reintroduced in 1984 as a stop-gap measure, which lasted 15 years. These charges were abolished as a result of the major scare the Government received.

There are now two parts to this country: the Pale and the area outside it. I firmly believe that people should be paid to live in rural Ireland because they do not have access to the same facilities as their counterparts in major towns and cities, particularly Dublin. People living in Dublin have access to transport, trains, good roads, etc.

If Fianna Fáil entered Government with the Progressive Democrats they would run away from it.

What have people in rural Ireland gained from the Minister's new system to reform local government? They have been given back 80 per cent of car tax collected in their counties. I will be parochial and refer to my county, which collected £9 million in water and sewerage charges. Kerry was one of the first counties to introduce a sewerage charge. We were not getting enough from this Government or the last one so we introduced charges before they were made compulsory in 1984 because we wanted to run the services in our county efficiently. Now we are to be given autonomy through the car taxes. We must send the £9 million to central Government and get £7 million back from the equalisation fund. That is taking £9 million out of the economy. If the water charges were left in place and we in Kerry got that £9 million, in one year all the roads which in Kerry are falling apart would be brought up to the proper standard, but the Government did not have the guts to do that. We are told about the reform and financing of local government but I have yet to see how the Minister will finance local authorities.

He wants to force a situation where the structure of local authorities falls down and they are forced to introduce new charges to maintain services. This Bill is the greatest load of codswallop I have ever seen. Kerry depends on tourism as its biggest source of revenue. People land at Shannon Airport and use cars registered in Clare or Dublin to drive around Kerry, using the roads and services.

We will gladly take them.

Other counties get the revenue from those cars. The Minister should look again at the equalisation fund. People in rural Ireland will have to get subsistence payments to live there as the roads are falling apart. This year there was an announcement that money for the roads was to be increased. That is because there is an election this year.

Not last year or the year before.

The Senator will know when he goes to the doors. Under the present system, county roads will be repaired once every 40 years; until recently they would be steamrolled every eight years. I have told young people to photograph a steamroller if they see one, as they will not see another for 40 years with the current structure.

I congratulate this Minister on announcing ten year and 15 year programmes. One would think he will be there for the next ten to 15 years.

He will be there for a long time.

In 1987 the grant for house reconstruction was introduced by the then Minister, Deputy Boland. It was a very good grant as it brought many properties up to the proper standard. His Government left office immediately afterwards and were replaced by Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats. When they looked for money there was none to be spent and £210 million had to be paid to those who had applied for reconstruction grants. Cutbacks had to be made because of that blunder. Now another Minister is announcing ten and 15 year programmes. We must live now and we should budget as one does for a house.

This debate should be extended to a couple of days and I will be asking the Leader to do so. I have yet to hear a Member on the Government side suggest how local authorities are to be financed other than moving money from one pocket to another. The infrastructure will disintegrate and there will be no development. We will all have to move into the Pale and get free services there. Rural Ireland will wither and we will have to look at photographs of it.

I sympathise with the Minister for the Environment. He is courageous to tackle this issue because when I was in Government I had two very heavy documents on the reorganisation of local government. No decisions were taken on that issue because it was too big a job and kept getting deferred to the next meeting. Those documents are probably still in the Department of the Environment.

It is very difficult to deal with local authority finances unless one tackles the fundamental issue of the reorganisation of local government itself. The Minister asked consultants for a report, which I read carefully. That report gave historical data and information on other jurisdictions but gave the Minister no clear choices or options. Tonight the Minister referred to doing another study. It would not be worthwhile because it is necessary to have the first study evaluated and then options could be debated and acted upon. Without that, one will find the system Senator Dan Kiely has spoken of.

We collected £6 million in car tax last year in Clare, which may include revenue from licences. With the 80 per cent clawback we would have £4.5 million. However, approximately £3 million in water charges was collected last year in Clare. Therefore, in spite of the reorganisation of the motor taxation fund, the councils will not be any better or worse off. This has been mentioned by a Government speaker. Limits for manoeuvrability will be further eroded and the councils will be very confined. The Minister is talking about abolishing the rate support grant but, under the new mechanism he proposes to introduce, he is setting up another one. It would be better if the Minister kept the rate support grant and used it as a mechanism to remedy imbalances in any area. In a local authority like Dublin, which has huge revenue from car taxes, how would this be managed so that the smaller local authorities, with much less income, can survive?

In so far as the Minister is attempting to tackle the problem, he is to be supported but I am not certain what he proposes is the most effective way to do it. He should think again, perhaps consulting members of the Government and the Opposition. We should form a joint committee to deal with this matter, as was suggested. The current proposal will prove to be as unsatisfactory as the present system.

This is being borne out by what is happening with the group water schemes. I was at a meeting in the West County Hotel in Ennis last Monday which was attended by 400 people representing 200 group schemes from all over Clare. Most of them had provided water for themselves at minimal or no cost to the State. Unless some action is taken through subvention, the people who have contributed, and who still contribute, to the funding of these schemes will not continue to pay. There is a danger that many of the rural group water schemes will collapse before this summer is out and huge areas will be left without a proper water supply.

A federation of group water schemes has been set up in the west. I suggest that the Minister meets it as soon as possible to find a formula to maintain and support the voluntary effort which was instrumental in providing water in many areas. A mechanism must be found to subvent the group water schemes currently threatened with financial disintegration.

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