Today's Order of Business is items 1, 2 and 3. Item 1 will be taken until 1 p.m. and there will be sos from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. Item 2 will be taken from 2 p.m. to 6 p.m. and item 3 from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. If item 2 has not concluded by 6 p.m. it will be taken again from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m.
Order of Business.
Will item 2, Employment Equality Bill, 1996, be completed today?
Yes.
Will the Leader outline arrangements until Easter so that everybody can try to keep up with the Government's intentions? Today Members will have noted with concern that workers in TEAM Aer Lingus plan to strike again. This company has come through a turbulent number of years and I ask the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications and the Government to do all they can to ensure this matter is brought to a successful conclusion as soon as possible.
Will we have the opportunity to debate the question of zero tolerance of crime which has recently been raised? It is important we have such a debate on this sensitive issue. I refer to the situation in the inner city where drunken youths pour out of public houses and night clubs night after night. They urinate in public, vomit and cause nuisance and noise. I reported this matter many times to the police but I am told to make notes and object to the granting of licences. I would like the Garda and the courts to take this matter seriously.
This issue was raised on Pat Kenny's radio show yesterday. Somebody purpoting to be a garda rang in to say that if we had zero tolerance of crime gardaí would have to caution people and perhaps arrest them for insignificant matters such as public urination. Last Saturday night and early Sunday morning I walked around, as I was told to by the Garda, and saw a line of four young men openly urinating against a shop window about ten yards from O'Connell Street. Is this the type of behaviour we wish to tolerate in the capital city?
Is it intended to debate the report of the hepatitis C tribunal? Many important issues arise in the report which we should consider. Emerging from the report is what is described as institutional arrogance which seems to be characteristic of these institutions which believe people cannot be trusted with information and that the ordinary peasants, as they would see them, are somehow not entitled to be told the facts.
The BTSB report has been referred to the DPP. It might also be appropriate to refer it to the Commissioner of the Garda Siochána. The collection of evidence is not a matter for the DPP but for the commissioner. Who is to be held accountable for the appalling events which have taken place under the BTSB? Justice Finlay is to be congratulated. This incident demonstrates that tribunals can be held expeditiously without costing a great deal of money.
The chairperson of Positive Action was the only member of that group to receive a copy of the report. Surely anyone infected with hepatitis C who wishes should also receive a copy. This would not add significantly to the cost.
This is an appropriate week to have statements on the Irish Horse Racing Authority. How many of the experts will be in the House this evening to discuss this important matter?
They are flying back.
I am relieved to hear that.
We should have a debate on the report into the BTSB. I welcome its referral to the DPP even though that may make it inappropriate to discuss certain parts of the report. However, there are aspects of the report which we could debate, in particular, the lessons which can be drawn concerning the monitoring and supervision of a body such as the BTSB. The report contains a number of recommendations in this regard. It calls for the establishment of a blood services consumer council, the publication of biannual reports and a structure for investigating suspicions where they arise. There may be other institutions of State which require similar observation and public accountability. If there are, we should not wait until it is too late as happened in the case of the BTSB.
I support Senator Dardis's call for a wider circulation of the report. Senators have received a copy, unlike many of the women directly involved. There are logistical problems but it is important that Senators' concerns about the circulation should be made public.
Now that the Salmon River Council Bill has been laid before the House would the Leader provide Government time for its introduction and statements on the Bill next week?
I do not feel competent or qualified to express any observations on the BTSB report which would reflect the views of the women in Positive Action. We do not wish to make a political issue of this matter. When we debate this issue would the Leader invite representatives of Positive Action to speak for themselves? We have invited other people to speak in the Seanad. In view of the feelings which these women have expressed and the fact that the rest of us are inadequate, it would be appropriate——
Such a matter would have to go before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I appreciate that. Would the Leader consider referring this matter to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges so that these women could convey their views on a matter of vital interest for them? If not enough copies of the report have been made available to Positive Action, surely the copies in the Oireachtas could be made available to them?
I was interested to hear Senator Norris's observations on urination. Young men were urinating in weird places 50, 60, 70 and 80 years ago. It would take a police force of a minimum of 500,000 to tackle this because these people do not give notice they will urinate at a given time in a given place.
They have a good idea where it is going to happen. It occurs between the hours of 2 a.m. and 3 a.m. and, if there were a few policemen at Fibber Magee's, P.J. McGrath's, Rumours nightclub and the Back Gate at these times, much of the problem would be solved. I cannot speak for Belfast but I have no doubt they urinate all over each other.
Senator McAughtry on the Order of Business.
The time to get excited about urinating against a wall in the street was in the 1960s when discos were set up and the authorities thought nothing about feeding drink to young people of 12, 13 and 14 years of age. The Senator is 30 years too late with his complaints.
Better late than never.
I ask Senator McAughtry to put a question to the Leader.
My point concerns the Control of Horse Act, 1996, and efforts made by two individuals who gave their time freely and gladly and took an interest in the Cherry Orchard area. They are Kevin Smith, a management consultant, and Eddie Harty, a highly respected member of the horse training industry. They have spent many months trying to introduce some routine and form into the care of horses and introducing young people to a sense of responsibility. They asked for funds from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry and were told——
I understand that matter was raised on the Adjournment last week. Perhaps the Senator might incorporate it in his contribution to this evening's debate?
I will do that gladly. Two Ministers attempted to get this money from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry without success. I hope this matter will be examined again. Control of horses does not fit in with what I want to say tonight.
I have two questions for the Leader of the House on today's Order of Business. The Committee and Final Stages of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority Bill, 1996, were meant to be taken today. I want to confirm that only Committee Stage will be taken. Is it the intention to take all Stages of the Employment Equality Bill today rather than just Committee Stage? That would not be the right thing to do. There should be a gap between Committee and Report Stages.
Will it be possible to find time soon for a discussion about Dublin traffic? I mention this because sides are already being taken on the National Distribution Centre in Clondalkin announced yesterday. This has an important role to play when we are looking at the problem of city traffic, particularly as Luas is being discussed at the same time and there is a possibility of some city centre streets being closed when the tunnel option is being considered. Will the Leader find time to discuss Dublin traffic, especially with regard to the National Distribution Centre?
Will the Leader ask the Minister for the Marine to come to the House to discuss a very important matter. Fisherman Danny "Boy" O'Driscoll died tragically at sea. We should extend our sympathy to his mother, girlfriend and family on their great loss. The tragedy is under Garda investigation and I do not want to say any more about it. The question of net cutting and bullying at sea must be discussed in this House as well as such matters as quotas and the renewal of our fishing fleet. We need a full discussion of this issue so that matters relating to the EU, fishing and Ireland can be highlighted.
I join with Senator Calnan in calling for a debate on fishing and the treatment of our fishermen. I ask the Leader for a debate on the new agency set up a week ago on rural Ireland. This agency and procedures for development in rural Ireland should be debated with the Minister. Some time ago I was taken aback when an agency for the west was established, which excluded Clare and Kerry. When the Minister of State, Deputy Carey, intervened, Clare was included but Kerry is omitted from everything. The Neodata factory in Kerry closed recently with the loss of 105 jobs. Had this happened anywhere else——
Is the Senator looking for a debate?
I am calling for a debate on this agency because I want to know why none of the thousands of jobs being created are going to Kerry where unemployment is alarmingly high. Is Kerry to be excluded from the new agency as it was from the previous one?
Is Kerry not the Kingdom?
We are not debating this on the Order of Business.
The Tánaiste and a Minister of State are in my constituency and I see no jobs there. We have now lost 105 jobs. Had this happened in Galway with Digital or in Cork city there would be pickets everywhere.
We are not debating this on the Order of Business.
I ask the Leader for clarification whether Kerry is included in the new agency.
With regard to the report of the hepatitis C inquiry, it is some consolation — if one could call it that — to Positive Action that the report is being referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions.
The extensive use of closed circuit television and internal video cameras has resulted in strike action being served on a company using internal video cameras in Youghal. The Leader should ask the Minister with responsibility for this area if it is intended to introduce legislation or regulations governing the use of such equipment.
I understood from an exchange between the Leader and Senator Wright that Report Stage of the Employment Equality Bill would possibly be taken this evening. Senator Quinn has the same impression and I echo his concern. Senators concerned with this legislation would oppose that.
I raise the continued detention of Roisín McAliskey. I visited her last Friday with a Labour Party delegation and she wanted me to express her deep satisfaction with the Irish public and politicians for taking an interest in her case. We all welcome her recategorisation last Friday, which was a step in the right direction. This House should consider a debate on the detention of Irish prisoners in English jails as soon as possible. Such a debate would give people an opportunity to express their feelings not just on the Roisín McAliskey case but on cases of other Irish prisoners being held on extremely flimsy evidence and on the whim of probably the cruellest Home Office Minister in many years. Easter is coming, an important time in Irish history, and before or after Easter would be appropriate for such a debate. These people played a major role in the Peace Process and now feel they are forgotten. A full debate on this matter should be considered.
Can we debate the two tax systems in the Border counties? The Minister for Finance has met deputations about this issue on at least two occasions. This issue will always be raised before an election, as happened before the by-election in Donegal. It is now being raised again. Thousands of people live on one side of the Border and work on the other. This is not unique — there are Border region workers all over Europe. However, we have put this issue on the long finger. It is important to establish clarity by having a debate in the House.
Every matter raised in this House this morning is important. However, the working section of the community is entitled to be told where it stands on an important matter of taxation but we have dragged our feet for a number of years. The matter becomes a political issue at every election. I want it cleared up once and for all and the political element removed. The workers are not getting a fair crack at the whip.
We are not debating the matter on the Order of Business. A question to the Leader.
Fianna Fáil did nothing about it for 20 years; they should hang their heads in shame.
I am interrupted by someone who has misled the workers.
The Senator did not even turn up for the meeting last week.
I have not named that Senator yet. I was pursuing an urgent matter when I was interrupted by a guilty person in the House.
I want to raise another matter of paramount interest to my county. The deflector system supplies television reception to thousands of homes. I ask for a debate on the issue because the national television service subsidised by the taxpayer is not available in a large part of this county. Why should advantage be given to someone who is charging a ransom while a deflector system is provided?
Have you a question for the Leader?
I am trying to highlight the importance of a debate. I am wasting my time simply asking for one.
The matter might be more appropriately dealt with on the Adjournment.
With respect to you, a Chathaoirligh, it is at least as important as someone urinating in a backyard in Dublin. Will the Leader recognise that the television picture of thousands of homes on this island——
I suggest the Senator put the matter down on the Adjournment and it will be favourably considered.
——has been disconnected? Can we have a debate?
We had one two weeks ago. The Senator was not here.
I had good reason not to be here.
You have made your point and I am sure the Leader understands it.
I thank the Leader for recording my absence.
We could record it more often.
My attendance here is equal to anyone else's.
We are not debating your attendance.
We are. I was told I missed a debate.
You asked for a debate and the Leader informed you that when there was one you were not here. It was a point of information.
I am asking for a debate on a deflector system that was switched off last night. I am being given a clever answer.
There is more than one deflector system in Ireland.
Can you put a question to the Leader? You have asked for a debate.
Can we have a debate on those deprived of television pictures from the national network?
Can the Leader provide time to discuss the recent report from the General Council of County Councils which proposed a pension scheme for councillors? Councillors work hard and are often out of pocket. The suggested pension scheme would be recognition for the important work they do.
Everybody has their constituency.
I join Senator Calnan in expressing sympathy to the family and relatives of the late Dan O'Driscoll who lost his life in the tragic fishing incident last weekend. I compliment the Minister for the Marine for setting up a speedy inquiry into the affair. Will the Leader draw the attention of the Minister to the practice of British registered Spanish vessels fishing in Irish waters? An obvious effort is being made to deplete Irish stocks by quota hopping and the Minister might raise the issue at the Council of Ministers. The practice which led to this incident has been utilised for a number of years and it raises serious fears for people involved in the fishing industry off the south-west coast.
Can the Leader ask the Minister for Education for information on the final list of approvals for work on new primary schools this year? The Minister has identified a number of new primary schools which will be built this year but a number of projects are waiting to go to tender. One of those is the new Gaelscoil in Ennis where there has already been a strike and about which there will be picketing at the gates of Leinster House today. The Minister can clarify the matter by identifying——
That matter has been listed for debate on the Adjournment. I am sure it will be chosen shortly.
The Leader should convey to the Minister for Education the urgency of dealing with a matter in which young children are being put at risk because of unsatisfactory school conditions.
Can the Leader indicate if it will be necessary to move the Shannon River Council Bill, 1997, proposed by Senator O'Kennedy and me and circulate it to Members of the House in order to have it debated next week? If we need to formally move the Bill, we so move.
With regard to the first item of Business for today, I feel a certain irritation about this matter. Following consultation with the representative of the Independent Senators, it was intended to take all Stages of item 2 today. He said it would be a good idea and he had no difficulty with the arrangement. On that basis, I arranged with the Minister to take all Stages today. There would be a sos, if necessary, between Committee and Report Stages. It is irritating to be told by two Members of the same group that this arrangement is unacceptable, even though it was agreed last week. I will discuss the matter with the Members after the Order of Business and if they object to Report Stage being taken, it will not be taken. I wish Members would get their thinking clear on these matters.
The Public Service Management Bill, 1997, will be a Seanad Bill and will be taken after Easter. The Universities Bill will be introduced in the Seanad before Easter, as will the Electoral Bill. The Social Welfare Bill and the Litter (Pollution) Bill will also be introduced in the House before Easter. The Seanad will sit two days next week and three days the following week. For most of April, May and June the Seanad will probably sit three days each week and it will reconvene in late September to complete the programme of legislation.
What about the election?
I noted the remarks of Senator Norris and Senator McAughtry. I cannot add to them except to offer my sympathy to Senator Norris on the discomfort and inconvenience visited on him.
Can we have a debate on zero tolerance?
We can. It will find its way on to the Order Paper but I will give priority to the Bill proposed by Senator O'Kennedy and Senator Daly. That will take precedence in Government time.
There will be a full debate on the report of the hepatitis C tribunal, hopefully before Easter. Senator O'Sullivan was probably wrong in saying that some aspects of the report should not be discussed. There will be a full debate on all aspects. I join with my colleagues in complimenting Judge Finlay on the speed, thoroughness, impartiality and frankness of his report. It is a model for reports of this kind.
I have doubts about Senator O'Kennedy's proposal. I thought the point of the tribunal was to allow people from Positive Action to have their say. However, I will refer his suggestion to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and if it is found to be possible, we will see what we can do about it.
Senator Dardis sought a debate on the racing industry. We could arrange for some television link up to allow anybody who is not here to participate.
At 3.15 p.m. today.
Sadly, our most noted expert on the matter is sidelined, but I look forward to a good debate tonight on the future of the horse racing industry.
As regards Senator O'Kennedy and Senator Daly's Bill on the Shannon River Authority, I will find time before Easter to allow the introduction of Second Stage. We will continue it after Easter in Government time.
I have already dealt with the matter raised by Senator McAughtry. I will try to resolve the problem raised by Senator Quinn. The Dublin Docklands Development Bill, 1996, will only finish Committee Stage today. I do not see it going any further than that. If there is a difficulty about not taking all Stages of the Employment Equality Bill we will sort that out after the Order of Business.
I do not have any immediate plans for a debate on Dublin's traffic but we can see about that later.
Senators Calnan, Daly, Dan Kiely and others raised the tragedy off west Cork last Sunday. I join with them in conveying our sympathy to the family of the skipper who died and to the people of Castletownbere on their great loss. It would be inappropriate to have a debate on the matter pending the outcome of the Garda investigation which I understand is taking place at speed. As soon as that is completed we can see revisit the matter.
I do not have any immediate plans for a debate on Kerry, as requested by Senator Dan Kiely. I will refer the matters raised by Senator Sherlock to the Minister for Equality and Law Reform for a view on that matter.
Senator McGowan raised the question of taxation which will come appropriately under the Finance Bill which we will discuss shortly after Easter. The matter of deflectors was discussed here two weeks ago. Senator McGowan has an excellent record of attendance and I am the first to acknowledge that. I certainly was not casting any reflection on him, but it was debated here. In one sense, deflectors will be the first victims of zero tolerance since they are outside the law. However, we will have a debate on that in the near future.
I will refer the matter raised by Senator Townsend to the Minister for the Environment. I will ask the Minister for Education for information on the matter raised by Senator Daly.
Order of Business agreed to.