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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Apr 1997

Vol. 150 No. 15

Order of Business.

Today's Order of Business is items 1, 2 and 32, motion 24. Item 1 will be taken from the end of the Order of Business until 4 p.m. with a sos from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. With regard to item 2, the Litter Pollution Bill, 1996, I understand that Second Stage is near completion and if this Stage concludes, there will be a short sos followed by Committee Stage. Item 24 will be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.

The Order of Business is agreed. What are the time allocations in respect of item 1? My party's spokesperson has much to say on the Bill. With regard to item 2, Second Stage is near completion and we are agreeable to take Committee Stage, provided there is a sos to allow for the submission of amendments.

I am pleased that the Government has moved motion 24 for Private Members' Business. Yesterday the Government accepted the Heritage and Cultural Events (Televisual Access Protection) Bill, 1997, when Second Stage was moved in Private Members' time in the Dáil. On two occasions during Private Members' time in this House we asked the Minister to accept our position on that issue.

The Leader kindly submitted the list of legislation the House will deal with over the coming weeks. Is there anything to be added in the three weeks leading up to Thursday, 24 April?

In view of the ongoing external debate it is crucial that the House debates European Monetary Union and related matters as soon as possible. It is vital that Members inform themselves of the issues to enable them participate in the wider public debate. I am concerned that, as European Monetary Union approaches, people will raise issues about which Members of this House and the other House are not fully informed. While there is a consensus on the issue, with notable exceptions, a debate should proceed.

Will the Leader ask the Government, in future negotiations at the appropriate level, to raise the fact that the House is opposed to and scandalised by the actions being taken by those acting in the name of our interests against ordinary working people on the other island? It is disgraceful that people cannot go about their business; it is especially repugnant that the IRA should again participate in spoiling the fun and unity of families by effectively cancelling the Grand National last Saturday. It is an event which brings families together. Grandparents choose horses for their grandchildren and there is a sense of togetherness in families and communities. Apart from the difficulties the incident has created for the bloodstock industry and the image of Ireland, we should make our position clear regarding the lunatics who claim to act in our name.

I support Senator O'Toole's remarks about the incident at the weekend. Even by the IRA's own perverted logic, I do not understand why it indulged in such an activity. It was sheer stupidity. It is a well founded tradition that sport is not involved in such matters. As the Cathaoirleach is aware, thousands of Irish people were at Aintree and I am sure they were upset and embarrassed by what occurred. It had no logic whatsoever.

Repeated calls have been made for a debate on European Monetary Union. It is important to clear up the confusion which exists and to ensure that we have a coherent strategy. I appreciate the Government's position has been outlined but other related issues need to be debated. The current crisis in agriculture is related to the currency issue. This needs to be discussed because it is more serious now than it was at the outset of the BSE problem. There has been a huge reduction in cattle prices and dramatic cuts in export refunds. There are difficulties with carcase classification and the disposal of dead animals. Another aspect is Ireland's access to live cattle markets in the Middle East and the necessary competition that will be created in the trade. This matter is critical for many people and there is real hardship in agricultural circles at present. This matter must be debated soon.

I join Senator O'Toole and Senator Dardis in condemning the recent actions of the IRA in Britain, particularly in relation to the Grand National. It was entirely counter-productive even in terms of its own interests. British and Irish people were frightened and discommoded by the incident and it is difficult to understand the IRA's aim at this point. In terms of its political viewpoint it is going the wrong way about achieving representation at talks after the British general election. It is right to condemn its actions. The House should also condemn the increase in bigoted actions by a small section of the population of Northern Ireland in relation to church buildings.

I thank the Cathaoirleach and other Members who attended the funeral of a dear colleague in County Donegal. I appreciated their presence and support on that sad occasion.

I have repeatedly called for a debate on the funding of local authorities. The Minister had time to give an interview to RTÉ radio this morning and to give a broad description of what he is doing about the funding of local authorities. I would go to Montrose if it meant Members were informed and could contribute to a debate. It is unfortunate that, despite repeated appeals, the House has not discussed this issue this session. The Minister said this morning that he was giving local authorities £260 million of the money generated by motor taxation. This might be sufficient in Dublin but it will not be enough to replace the asbestos pipes which carry water in County Donegal. Every day some of these pipes burst and people do not know whether their health is being damaged as a result. The Minister has spoken of people being unaware of the current situation but he is the only person who is not informed. It is a tragedy. I do not blame the Leader as the Minister has avoided an open discussion of this issue.

A question to the Leader.

I ask the Leader if I should raise this issue or will I be fobbed off?

I join with colleagues in deploring the actions of the Provisional IRA over the weekend. I listened to the vice-chairman of Sinn Féin, Mr. Pat Doherty, speak on Donegal Highland Radio about the economic neglect of Donegal and other Border counties. Nobody has contributed more to the destruction of prosperity in Ireland than the Provisional IRA. Ireland would flourish like no other country in Europe if they stopped their activities. I condemn the stupid actions of the Provisional IRA and Sinn Féin.

Mr. Naughten

I compliment the Government on yesterday's statement that polling for the election will be held on a Friday. It is another example of how the Government is continuing its policy of considering the views of young people in making decisions. This decision means that many young people living and working away from home will, for the first time, have the opportunity to exercise their franchise in their local areas. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for the Environment to undertake a publicity campaign to inform people that they can register to vote up to 14 days before the election. Over 17 per cent of the population are not registered to vote.

Unlike Mr. Gerry Adams, I am partial to the politics of condemnation and for that reason I am happy to join in the condemnation of recent events. I do not feel as strongly as some colleagues for the following reasons: nobody was hurt and it is less easy to get excited about the cancellation of a sporting event during which nobody was hurt than a situation where life was lost. Also, the IRA has scored a spectacular own goal, which does not distress me in the slightest.

I also take an ungodly pleasure in the fact that the President has referred the Employment Equality Bill to the Supreme Court to test its constitutionality. A number of Senators, including myself, pointed out this possibility and laid a foundation for the constitutional examination of that legislation.

In the light of recent disclosures about telephone tapping, I ask the Leader to recommend a full inquiry to the Government. It is not acceptable that a few journalists who managed to weasel out information about their own cases are able to protect their own situations with spectacular success. If, as appears to be the case, a sizeable number of citizens have had their telephones illegally tapped, we ought to know the whole story. The Leader should instigate a debate on the matter and pass the views of the House to the appropriate Minister.

Finally, I draw the House's attention to the fact that the Independent benches have now swollen to their original size. In the words of the Good Book, there is more joy in Heaven over one sinner who repents than over all the band of the righteous put together.

I join in condemning the IRA atrocity. One wonders whether citizens are able to interpret the EU directive on landfill waste, the Environmental Protection Agency guidelines and the report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Sustainable Development to discover the policy on this question. I ask the Leader for a debate on this issue. Senator Norris referred to the changes and phone tapping in the early 1980s. It speaks volumes that an investigative journalist will make a secret deal.

As my party's spokesperson on Northern Ireland, we condemn the IRA. We do not try to get into its members' minds to discover whether an action is counter productive or an own goal — that is a matter for them. Although I join the condemnations we are not required to prove our bona fides on every occasion or to discover whether this was justifiable even from their perspective. Actions of that kind are totally and utterly abhorrent to all of us. Fortunately, as Senator Norris said, no deaths or injuries were caused this time. In case it is thought in Britain or elsewhere that if we do not formally condemn incidents in that jurisdiction they somehow have our tacit support, let it be known we condemn every action undertaken by that organisation and we do not have to justify our position by condemnations of each incident. I also join Senator O'Sullivan in condemning the abhorrent arson and destruction of places of worship, acknowledged by no organisation. It casts shame on any element, at what we like to think of as an enlightened stage of civilisation.

Senator Dardis mentioned European Monetary Union related matters. The current crisis in the beef industry is grave not just for farmers, producers or the meat industry but, because of the unique importance of that sector, for the economy. Now that the EU has paid its contribution arising from the revaluation of our green £, I call on the Minister for Finance — who is in the House to discuss other issues — to follow the example and precedent of other member states and make the matching contribution, especially because the beef and dairy sector is much more important to our economy than to the German, French or Dutch economies. If he will not, will he explain how he can find £40 million for consultancies, programme managers and advisers but cannot find £25 million for our most important industry? That question must be answered in the light of the crisis facing the industry.

I join in calling for a debate on the crisis in the beef industry. Because of the urgency of the matter we should hold it today. The crisis has been brought about through a series of events outside the control of farmers. The most serious problems concern export refunds which are used as a mechanism to control the volume of beef exported to Third World countries. We are affected more than other countries because we export eight out of every ten animals produced. This mechanism was part of the GATT agreement which was negotiated during the MacSharry era. Taken with the green pound devaluation, it has proven an unmitigated disaster.

Every time live exports are reduced the beef processing factories combine in a cartel to the detriment of farmers. Irish farmers are paid 80p per pound for beef compared with 95p in Britain — where BSE is a major problem — and £1.07 in France. Irish farmers are at a severe disadvantage and I call for an urgent debate on the matter.

I join in the call for an immediate debate on the crisis in farming. I endorse the call by Senator O'Kennedy for an immediate payment of matching funds towards the devaluation of the green £. The price of beef has been reduced by 30p per lb over the last four years. The crisis is not confined to beef; the milk and sheep sectors are also affected. We attend meetings on a nightly basis in our constituencies to discuss the crisis.

Government spokespersons seem to have a briefing document from their spin doctors telling them to refer to the GATT agreement.

That matter does not arise on the Order of Business. Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

I ask the Leader for an immediate debate on the crisis in agriculture and to convey to the Minister our serious concern.

The Ministers for Health and Finance have failed to honour an existing agreement regarding retired nurses subsequent to the settlement of the nurses dispute. It is unprecedented for people with an existing agreement to be discriminated against. I ask the Leader to raise this serious national concern with these Ministers. Discrimination against retired people on the basis that they have no clout is an indictment of any Minister or Government. There may be as many retired as there are practising nurses. Some retired on voluntary schemes at the behest of Government and they should not be discriminated against.

I ask for a debate on the funding of acute general hospitals. I was aghast at the revelations in last Sunday's newspapers that it costs four times more to keep a bed in an acute hospital in Dublin than in the west. This is damning information. I am not saying that beds in Dublin are over funded but I am convinced that beds in hospitals in the west are underfunded to an extent that it must be practicably impossible to operate them. Roscommon General Hospital——

We are not debating that issue now. Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health to explain how Roscommon General Hospital and other hospitals in the west receive four times less funding than their Dublin counterparts? Roscommon General Hospital receives the least amount of funding from a list of 22 hospitals. We need a debate on the funding of beds in acute hospitals. We should not have discrimination on a regional basis as currently happens.

I support Senator O'Toole's call for a debate on European Monetary Union. We had a very good and healthy debate on this issue some months ago. However, the currency rate has changed dramatically between Ireland and Britain over the past months. There has been an 8 per cent swing which has huge implications for our joining European Monetary Union. If we delay having a debate any longer, one of the most crucial decisions this State has to make will drift into a position where we will not have given it full attention. I urge the Leader to find time in the immediate future for a debate on this issue. When the Irish £ was valued at 4 per cent more than sterling a few months ago, we heard of all the problems this created. We do not seem to hear of the problems that are being created now because they concern consumers rather than manufacturers. The inflation criterion is crucial in regard to European Monetary Union and I would not like us to drift any further without debating the issue.

Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice about mounted police? I raised this matter on the Adjournment some months ago and the Minister, who was receptive to the concept, responded by saying she would seek information from the Garda Commissioner. I mention the issue because of the visibility of the mounted police at Aintree on Saturday last in relation to crowd control. There is a great realisation of the benefits of having mounted police and the Minister recognised that. The acceptance of the need for mounted police would be a valuable step to take at this stage.

I support the calls for a debate on agriculture. Will the Leader draw the Minister's attention to the plight of small dairy farmers, especially in the west of Ireland, whose incomes have been very substantially reduced? We now have an unprecedented level of small dairy producers clearing out their dairy herds. The situation is critical and I support the call for the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry to take action in this regard.

Will the Leader ascertain from the Minister for Enterprise and Employment what proposals, if any, there are for new legislation in relation to the reorganisation of the training agency, FÁS? The Leader will be aware that a number of statements have appeared in the media recently about the proposals to change the legislation which established FÁS and the reorganisation of the training authority area. There is quite an amount of concern as to what Government proposals are in this area.

Will the Leader ascertain from the Minister for Justice how many and whose telephones are being tapped at present? Perhaps the Minister might lay the transcripts in the Oireachtas Library.

I join in the call to the Minister for the Environment to investigate the charge which has been made in the House this morning about the use of asbestos pipes. It is an absolute disgrace if water is passing through asbestos pipes. Ten years ago, asbestos was removed from car brake pads because of the danger of dust from the pads. Asbestos has also been removed from insulation material. If asbestos pipes are in use, it is a matter of public health that this be addressed urgently, irrespective of cost. We need to ascertain whether a problem exists and if there is a single metre of asbestos pipe in use in this country. An investigation must take place and all asbestos pipes must be eliminated. Dust from asbestos is the most——

Put a question to the Leader, Senator.

Will the Leader ask the relevant Minister to ensure no asbestos piping is being used in the public water system or in any other water system?

Will the Leader ask the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications to outline the cost of a mobile telephone and explain the difference between East and Eircell? One cannot walk a centimetre without being almost knocked down by somebody using a mobile telephone when driving, which is illegal, or go into a restaurant without being knocked down by somebody making a date.

That is not a matter for the Order of Business. Have you a relevant question?

(Interruptions.)

The Member whose mobile telephone rang in the Chamber on one occasion made an interruption.

We should use carrier pigeons from now on. We could have a loft outside the window.

Will the Leader ask the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications to outline the cost of a mobile telephone? One cannot buy a bag of chips without being offered a free mobile telephone. It is time we knew the cost of such telephones.

Last week RTÉ showed a programme on nongovernmental organisations, our aid organisations and money spent on aid. We should debate the effectiveness of aid from this and other countries to the Third World to see if money is being wasted and if people are spending time in Third World countries for their own benefit, as was suggested in the television programme. We should consider the response of APSO and debate the issue because we send considerable sums of money and personnel to Third World countries. We must ensure the money is used to the benefit of those who are supposed to be the recipients and not the donor country or the person giving their time.

Will the Leader ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to ensure Europe plays its part in attempting to get the peace process in the Middle East back on track? The Americans seem to have opted out of their responsibilities and Europe has a responsibility in this regard. Yesterday, three Palestinians were killed in the West Bank. The peace process, which was welcomed by Members, has virtually broken down and unless Europe plays a part in trying to re-establish a peace accord in the Middle East the situation will worsen. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Government to ensure Europe plays a significant part in trying to get the peace process in the Middle East back on track?

I join with colleagues who called for a debate on European Monetary Union, which would be appropriate at this time. I was surprised by the recent announcement by the Germans, which seemed to be unilateral, that although they would not meet the 3 per cent criteria, they would be allowed to waive that requirement and join European Monetary Union. Is a two track system emerging — one for large powerful countries and another for the small weak ones? That issue must form a major part of this essential debate.

I raised the proposed march by members of the Garda Síochána on the Houses of the Oireachtas on two previous occasions and I will not apologise for doing so again today. There have, however, been developments in that regard. On the last occasion the Leader agreed that Garda pay should not form part of the debate on law and order in the run up to the general election. Since this is a matter for this House, it is appropriate to raise it now. It is bad for the Oireachtas and it sends a wrong signal to criminals who run rampant in this city if, on a specific day, gardaí do not arrest and charge them but marching on the Oireachtas because of a pay dispute. The Minister for Justice must make an urgent statement to both Houses as to whether this march will take place, what is her attitude to it and if she will try to resolve the issue of Garda pay in advance of the general election.

As Senator McGowan is aware, the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Howlin, issued an open invitation over two years ago to participate in finding a more appropriate form of local government funding but the Opposition took to the hills because it was too thorny a subject. It is much easier to criticise the current form of funding if one does not have the responsibility of replacing it.

Does the Leader agree that, since 1994, when one faced the Opposition and awaited incoming fire, it has been disconcerting to find it coming from one's own part of the battlefield? I congratulate Senator Ross for removing that uncertainty from this side of the House so that when we face incoming fire, it will come from that direction.

I endorse the calls for action on the farming crisis. I come from rural Ireland but live in a town. Those colleagues from rural Ireland will know what I mean when I say we are always referred to as "townies", although those in large cities tend to lump us all together as culchies.

An urban culchie.

We are not expected to defend or protect the interests of the farming community. The Irish Farmers Association has held a series of meetings in my constituency and has been involved in a nationwide lobby so many colleagues will be familiar with this. There is a crisis in the farming community and it would be remiss of us, whether from town or country, not to highlight it. I heartily endorse the calls made because of the serious difficulties faced by our premier industry. Some people in cities sit smugly on the sidelines and constantly berate the farming community.

Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

I hope these attacks and unjustified criticisms are ignored by this House and that the Leader initiates a debate on the specific items raised, especially export refunds, devaluation and new markets.

Some weeks ago, I asked the Leader about Government policy on rural services, such as Garda stations and post offices. It was specifically about one post office in Geevagh, County Sligo. I am pleased to inform the House that An Post announced yesterday it would advertise a permanent position of postmaster or postmistress in Geevagh. I commend the local community for showing the way forward and I hope this will be motivation for other rural communities who feel their local services are threatened.

This matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

Politicians do not have a direct input into the decision making process of semi-State bodies such as An Post. In this case a combination of political and community action ensured the survival of an important local service in a small community in the west. Does the Leader think it appropriate that we might in future debate the public accountability of semi-State bodies? During successive Administrations in the past 20 years, the power originally vested in these Houses has been increasingly diminished and, where once the public, through its representatives, could seek accountability from companies funded by the taxpayer, it now can no longer do so because semi-State bodies operate autonomously.

We are not debating this matter now.

An Post made a corporate decision. This body was funded by the taxpayer but public representatives have little input into its operations. Would the Leader consider a debate on the culture of semi-State bodies and the growing autonomy of institutions initially funded by the taxpayer but which are no longer accountable or transparent?

On behalf of the Independent benches I thank Senator Magner for his kind remarks. I thank the Leader for his tolerance during a period in which he was under provocation from me. I hope this tolerance will continue under greater provocation in the coming months.

As long as we can depend on the Senator's loyalty.

We will give the Senator a reference.

I understood that a decision had been made on European Monetary Union. There is little point holding a debate after the decision has been made.

Why does the Sunday Independent keep talking about it?

We will talk about European Monetary Union and the teachers again.

If the Sunday Independent can talk about it then so can we.

Trouble in paradise.

Senator Ross without interruption.

If we wish to be relevant as a House of the Oireachtas we should have talked about European Monetary Union many years ago. It is a bit late to debate it now. However, in the hope that there is still some sense of reason on the Government benches let us have such a debate. There does not seem to be as much reason as there was last week.

I will not join the chorus of condemnation at the cancellation of the Grand National. I am tired of condemnation. I was in a bookie's shop in Gatwick Airport when the Grand National was cancelled. The things people said about the IRA and the Irish in general is not worth repeating on the Order of Business. However, it is scary to hear the anti-Irish feeling provoked by such incidents.

Our condemnations fall on deaf ears when they reach the people of Northern Ireland and England. We need to take action. At the same time we are condemning the IRA's actions we are playing footsie with Sinn Féin. We need to stop condemning and start taking action.

I concur with Senator Daly's call for a debate on the changes in FÁS. FÁS has been a good news story and has transformed our environment. It is doing good work in conjunction with local organisations.

I welcome the announcement that the Tour de France will start in Ireland next year. This is a big boost for the tourism industry and I congratulate all concerned. The last day we sat I asked the Leader if it was possible to have a debate on the communications proposals to create a super authority over the RTÉ Authority and the Independent Radio and Television Commission. A debate on this matter would be useful in teasing out what the Minister thinks and we could also inform him of our views.

It has been brought to my notice that a large amount of money may shortly be offered by an American institution for one of our gems of architectural heritage, the vestibule and facade of the old Abbey Theatre. It is currently safely stored and I saw it during the week. At the time of its demolition it was taken down and numbered by the then city architect, Daithí Hanley. I believe he is prepared to offer it to the State free of charge if a suitable site can be found, perhaps in the new museum. Will the Leader bring this matter to the attention of the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, who, being a theatre man, will perhaps take an interest in this project?

I congratulate Senator Ross on returning to where he belongs. Similar to Athanasius contra mundum, I have always thought “Ross contra party system”. I do not think he ever fitted into the Fine Gael Party. He is an independent voice and I am glad to hear him shouting already. I hope he keeps it up.

I condemn the burning of churches in the Six Counties. On either side it is terrible that people should be reduced to burning places of worship. I also congratulate Bishop Boyce of Raphoe on the fearless enunciation of his Church's teaching. Both he and Bishop Mahaffy spoke clearly but were pilloried in the media to some extent, especially Bishop Boyce, because those in the media do not agree with him. He was not afraid to enunciate what he believed without asking anyone to agree with him. There should be more freedom and tolerance — the type of tolerance expected from someone like Senator Ross, who is a very tolerant man in these circumstances.

On the points raised by the Leader of the Opposition, I propose 20 minutes per speaker on Item 1. There will be no amendment to the Private Members' motion this evening, but I cannot guarantee that the envisaged legislation will see the light of day during this Parliament. I should have information tomorrow as to the programme of legislation for the coming months.

Senator O'Toole raised the debate on European Monetary Union. The Minister of Finance has been here for the Order of Business and has heard what was said. He has led this debate over the past number of years and I am sure he will be happy to have a debate in the coming weeks. Senator Quinn raised issues central to that debate and I will see if it can be arranged.

A number of Members rightly condemned the IRA disruption of the Grand National last Saturday and the previous disruption of British motorways. I do not think I have to repeat the condemnation of the House. It is important to accept the point made by Senator Lydon and other Senators on the condemnation of the burning of churches. There is something absolutely barbaric about the burning of churches of any denomination. The television pictures make for shameful viewing. Obviously, all Members of the House condemn what is happening. It is also only right for the House to condemn the murder of an innocent Catholic man last week, apparently by Loyalist paramilitaries. It is important that our condemnation is even-handed.

Senator Dardis and other Senators raised agriculture problems. If we have time, we will have a debate on that. I will convey the points made to the Minister. Senator McGowan raised the funding of local authorities. There was a debate on the funding of local authorities in the last session, which the Minister participated in. It is item 20 on the Order Paper and the debate has not concluded. I will see if it can be continued.

Senator Naughten raised the important point of Friday polling. There is a need for the provision of greater information on late registration to potential voters. I will convey that point to the Minister for the Environment.

Senator Norris spoke in biblical terms about the return of the prodigal son to his benches. Whenever a prodigal son returns, a fatted calf has to be sacrificed; I wonder which fatted calf will be sacrificed in this case. I wish to place on record my thanks to Senator Ross for his co-operation over the past number of years on these benches. He always treated the Whip and I with great directness and courtesy and was a very dependable member of this group. I am not surprised he has gone back to a more congenial habitat. I wish him well on his return to the past.

Senator Sherlock raised the question of water charges. A debate on that matter could be possible, although a great deal of light was cast on the issue this morning by Mr. Pat Cox, MEP, who seemed to seriously undermine some of the points made at yesterday's hastily convened press conference.

Most of the other points raised were about agriculture. Senator Finneran's point should be raised on the Adjournment. Senator Quinn made a very interesting point about mounted police and I will ask the Minister for Justice if any progress has been made on that matter. Senator Daly raised the question of the reorganisation of FÁS. I am not aware of any legislative proposals in that regard at present.

Senator Lanigan's contribution was his usual tour de force. I will send the text of what he said about mobile telephones to the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications and ask him for a reply because I am not capable of giving him a reply on that matter. He raised other points about the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the peace process. He will do everything he can in that regard. We should have a debate on the effectiveness of relief aid. I will make inquiries on whether asbestos is being used for pipes.

Senator Mooney raised the question of State sponsored bodies, which are dealt with by an Oireachtas Joint Committee. Senator Ross made the points he has made, and will continue to make, on Northern Ireland and European Monetary Union, which do not require any comment.

Senator Cassidy welcomed the Tour de France, as do we all. I do not have any plans at the moment for a debate on the proposed super authority for RTÉ. Senator Lydon raised a point about the Abbey Theatre which I will refer to the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht.

Order of Business agreed to.
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