Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 May 1997

Vol. 151 No. 9

Chemical Weapons Bill, 1997: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise and Employment (Ms E. Fitzgerald)

I have circulated a long version of my speech as Members may wish to study it in detail. This is a non-contentious Bill that gives effect to the Chemical Weapons Convention which is the result of 24 years of painstaking negotiations. It provides a framework for monitoring chemical industries and for the prevention and destruction of existing chemical weapons. It also ensures that these weapons of appalling destruction are not manufactured in our manufacturing plants and that the means of manufacture do not find their way to unsavoury regimes or to terrorist groups. Unlike other measures in the arms limitation field, the Bill provides for the destruction of all chemical weapons and chemical weapon production facilities.

The Bill also provides for an elaborate system of verification and inspection which will be undertaken by an independent international organisation to ensure compliance by the ratifying states. Ireland ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention in June 1996. The purpose of the Bill is to create the structures and powers necessary for the State to meet its obligations under the convention. The convention requires that a national authority be established in each ratifying state and the National Authority for Occupational Safety and Health Authority will be the body in Ireland. In the course of its normal inspections of chemical facilities it will carry out the inspections required to ensure that controlled substances are properly monitored and that these premises are not being used for the manufacture of chemical weapons. The authority has all the necessary expertise and is familiar with the chemical industry from its mainstream work.

The enforcement powers provided in the Bill are modelled on similar provisions in existing legislation, notably the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act, 1989. Under the Chemical Weapons Convention declarations will be required from the State and the chemical industry. The State will declare that it processes no chemical weapons and has no chemical weapon production facilities. The Schedules to the Bill deal with chemicals that could be used to form chemical weapons, some of which have legitimate peace time uses. There are procedures for monitoring and controlling the use of these chemicals and which ensure they are not used in the manufacture of chemical weapons at home or that they are not exported to unsavoury or unsuitable organisations abroad.

The Bill contains strict provisions on confidentiality concerning information given to the national authority for transmission to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in the Hague which will monitor compliance — in other words, commercially sensitive information will not be disclosed if chemical companies provide information under the Bill on the stocks of chemicals they hold. It is very much in the interests of the chemical industry that Ireland ratifies this convention as trade in certain chemicals with non-ratifying countries is restricted under the convention.

When the Bill was being prepared there were extensive consultations with industry interests which have expressed themselves satisfied with its provisions and are anxious that we pass this legislation with due speed so that we can continue to trade on the basis that we have a chemical industry of which we can be proud, which has nothing to hide and which is not involved directly or indirectly in the production of these appalling weapons.

To date nearly 90 states have ratified the treaty, including all EU member states and the US. We want all UN member states to sign up to the treaty. In Israel a case is taking place involving somebody who is alleged to have supplied the makings of a mustard gas factory to Iran. It is important from a humanitarian point of view that we have proper control over these potentially appalling weapons internationally. This is an important humanitarian measure which I commend to the House.

Mr. Lanigan

I welcome this important Bill which should be on the Statute Book. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs has discussed chemical and biological weapons. I refer to the report of the UN subcommittee of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs on peacekeeping and peace enforcement in the light of UN reform. The report refers to the fourth review conference of the Biological and Toxic Weapons Convention in December 1996 which gave added impetus to the work in hand and strengthened the BTWC. It also says that it is generally agreed that agreement will be reached on a new verification Protocol to the convention and that the Chemical Weapons Convention came into force on 29 April 1997 but has yet to be ratified by either of the two declared possessors, the United States and Russia. The Minister of State stated that ratification by the United States proved to be an important step in persuading other countries to ratify before 29 April. The European Union is working with the United States Administration to encourage approval by the United States Congress. I am glad the EU has given the United States the impetus to talk about this.

Chemical weapons are not new as they have been used in wars for generations. No one can condone their use. The horrific effects of the use of chemical weapons during the First World War should never be forgotten as the carnage caused by their use by both sides was atrocious. Much was made of the use of chemical weapons by the Iraqis against the Kurdish people and their own population. We should condemn the use by Saddam Hussein and his Government of chemical weapons. In August and September 1988, over 55,000 Kurds fled to Turkey from northern Iraq to escape military attacks by the Iraqi Government forces. Some 90 per cent of these were civilians who were attacked with chemical weapons. We should not forget that happened. Neither should we forget, although some people want to, what was done by the United States during the Vietnam War. Agent Orange is something about which the western world would like to forget, but we must remember that millions of people suffered because of it and the actions of the United States. I hope the US Government and its people will never again allow what happened in Vietnam to happen elsewhere in the world. It was atrocious and horrific.

All major powers, including the British, have used chemical weapons. They are indiscriminate and do not differentiate between those at whom they are aimed and ordinary civilians. They kill everyone in the area at which they are aimed. That is inhumane and should never be condoned. This Bill, which ratifies the Chemical Weapons Convention, is one with which everyone in Ireland should agree.

Will the Minister ask the British Government about the dumping of chemical weapons in the Irish Sea and in seas around Ireland off the Heb-rides and the west coast? The Carrickatine, a boat which sank off north Donegal about two years ago, has never been found. We employed United States personnel to search for it at the time and they found sunken U-boats and blocks of cement containing gas canisters. The United Kingdom has never told the Irish Government how many U-boats or gas canisters it sank or dumped. The containers held the most horrific of chemical weapons, such as phosgene and anthrax. These are in the Irish Sea and the British Government has still not told anyone where they have been dumped. I think what happened was that navy personnel who were instructed to dump these in mid-Atlantic brought them a short distance off the Irish coast and dumped them there instead, probably because it would save them money.

The crimes against humanity caused by chemical weapons are too numerous to mention or for us to feel that we should ever again allow anyone to use them. Regardless of what we say and who signs the convention, they will be used in future. All we can do is to try and ensure that, if they are used, there will be sanctions against the countries which use and sell them. This Bill is a welcome addition to our legislation and is overdue. I am delighted to hear from the Minister that the United States has signed the convention. It should have been the first signatory because it was the largest producer of chemical weapons and I am not sure if it is still. Having signed the convention, it is to be hoped that the international community can monitor what happens in such countries which I think are still producing chemical weapons, although they have signed the convention.

I welcome this Bill as an addition to the legislation of this country.

Mr. Manning

I welcome the Minister to the House for probably the last occasion in the life of this Parliament, although I do not know for certain as I have not yet been told. She has an impressive record of legislation to her credit during this Parliament's lifetime and I hope those of us in the next Parliament will have the pleasure of seeing her as Minister again.

I echo Senator Lanigan's words that this is an important Bill and he put it into context in an eloquent contribution. This country is doing the right thing by passing this Bill because it ensures our own bona fide chemical industry can continue to be a major part of our economy while ensuring there will be no abuse of the chemicals process. Everyone in the House is agreed in principle that it is a good and well thought out measure. Perhaps it will be abused by others who want to use chemical weapons for their own ends and we may not be able to do much about it. At least we have done our bit and I commend the Bill to the House.

Mr. T. Fitzgerald

On reading the first page of the Minister's speech, I was reminded of the First World War. My mother's brother, Patrick O'Brien, was gassed in France during that war. My other uncle was also in the war and was in the same hospital having been gassed as well, but he survived. He told me of the terrible death his brother suffered. This brought home to me how serious this issue can be. The world is a small place. We read in the paper of countries experimenting with these gases and chemical weapons and some of them could be accidentally emitted and be blown in our direction, as happened in Chernobyl. We saw the horrific scenes of what happened in Tokyo when someone crazy enough used these gases. I support the Bill and commend it to the House.

Mr. Mooney

This is important if small legislation compared to what we dealt with earlier. Like Senator Fitzgerald I am influenced in my opinion by what I have read about the First World War. Although it is more than 70 years and two generations since the end of that war, as a youngster I met members of the Connacht Rangers in County Leitrim who had fought for the freedom of small nations during the war. It is interesting that old soldiers rarely regale one with stories about the battlefield. They will tell many other stories that would bore one to tears but getting them to talk about the more horrific elements of war is like drawing teeth. War is horrific anyway.

The use of mustard gas between 1914 and 1918 by the Germans was the first indication the world received of how lethal chemical weapons could be. I have an abiding memory of old black and white footage from that war. It showed a line of young men of about 18 or 19 years, each of whom had been blinded by the gas, and each has their hand on their comrade's shoulder as they were led by one person who could see. The experience of the First World War concentrated the minds of civilised countries and led to the first Geneva Convention. Ultimately it led to this modern treaty which Ireland is ratifying.

The potential for the treaty's effectiveness has been increased as a result of its ratification by the United States. Is it true that China and India have not ratified the convention? I understand India has deliberately opted out. What are the implications for Irish industry? Is there evidence of Irish industry manufacturing chemical or biological material which could be used in the armaments trade? The Minister of State also referred to the monitoring process. We are granting a large concession by ratifying the convention because we are permitting access to the State and its installations to representatives from outside the State. A national authority for occupational safety and health will be appointed under the Bill and it will be the national authority for the purposes of the convention. However, the Bill also grants people from outside the jurisdiction the right to carry out inspections. What will they inspect? If Irish industry is not involved in producing these materials, is it a normal responsibility of our ratification that we permit such general access or is it a specific proposal?

While inspection and monitoring will not cause difficulty for this State, an indication of the increasing difficulties facing civilised nations in achieving a consensus in this area is offered by the reaction of the Iraqi regime which has used every trick in the book to prevent the United Nations from carrying out a full and detailed investigation of its installations. Although this legislation is worthy and it is right that we should be a party to the convention, the reality is that not every country is a good neighbour or an "honest injun" in matters of this nature. There are leaders of countries who would use biological weapons at the drop of a hat to further their aims.

I hope the convention and the fact that the largest and most powerful country in the world has ratified it, at roughly the same time as one of the smallest but equally influential countries, will act as a beacon to other countries and convey the message that this type of manufacture is unacceptable. However, wars are not started by reasonable people sitting together drinking coffee but by despots and people who have grandiose ambitions beyond their station. It is, therefore, vital that we continue to play an active role by not only ratifying conventions of this nature but by seeking to ensure international monitoring of the conventions. Will we make a contribution to monitoring the convention or do we have the expertise to do so?

I am pleased this legislation has come before the House. It proves our responsibilities in the international community are not taken lightly but are addressed when the occasion demands. I commend the Minister of State for introducing this Bill.

Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise and Employment (Ms E. Fitzgerald)

I thank Senators for their unanimous support of the Bill. Whatever partisan differences we have — they will be debated thoroughly in the next few weeks — there has always been unanimity among politicians on issues of humanitarian concern.

I was interested to listen to Senator Fitzgerald speak about his family's experiences. It puts faces on statistics and shows us reality. It is not an abstract matter but is very much part of the memory of people in this country. One can read the Schedules to the Bill and the long list of unpronounceable chemicals but Senator Fitzgerald's contribution was an important reminder that chemical warfare affects real people and causes real suffering. It affects not just foreign countries but has an impact on the people of our country as well.

Senator Lanigan asked about the dumping of munitions and the sinking of U boats around our coast. I have a detailed note on that matter which I will forward to the Senator. A detailed study was carried out under the auspices of the British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body and the conclusion of independent experts was to leave well enough alone since removal of the material might cause more problems. At present, marine life is unaffected and regular testing is carried out.

Senator Mooney asked if we would have a role internationally. As contributors to the UN we will help to fund the expert group, whose members will be familiar with the chemicals concerned, which will be based in Geneva. In Ireland, the Health and Safety Authority is expert in this area and will monitor our chemical industry to ensure it remains chemical weapon free. Some of the substances listed in the Schedules have peaceful applications and can be used to produce legitimate products, such as paint. The authority will ensure those substances are only used for legitimate products and not to produce saran or mustard gas.

We would like to see all countries involved. The most important country is Russia. The obligations under the convention require the destruction of these weapons. The EU is in the process of putting together a financial package for this purpose because there are large financial costs for countries such as Russia which have a stockpile of these materials. The financial package will assist Russia and the former CIS countries to ratify the convention by being in the financial position to dispose of the materials. Eighty-seven countries have ratified the convention to date. The ratification by the US was extremely important. It had a more difficult passage through their Senate than hopefully it will have through ours. Anybody who wants to do business with the US will have to have ratified the convention. That economic signal is a very powerful tool for making countries comply.

Question put and agreed to.

Agreed to take remaining Stages today.