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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 May 1997

Vol. 151 No. 9

Order of Business.

Today's business is items 1, 2, 3 and 4 plus one additional item. The additional item is in response to a request from Senator Henry and Senator Lanigan for a discussion on the turmoil in the Great Lakes area of Africa. This item will be taken for 30 minutes from 1 p.m. to 1.30 p.m. The Minister will speak for ten minutes and other speakers will have five minutes, if that is agreed. Item 1 will be taken from the conclusion of the Order of Business until 4 p.m. Item 2 will be taken immediately after item 1. Item 3 will be taken immediately after item 2 and item 4 immediately after item 3.

The Order of Business is agreed. I discussed the additional item with our spokesperson on Foreign Affairs, Senator Lanigan, and he is happy with the Leader's decision. The Leader indicated that we will have a long, hard week next week. The House will probably sit for four days discussing a variety of legislation. In view of this, is it possible for the Leader to give us an outline of what legislation will be before the House? All legislation is important and it would be beneficial to have advance notice. We have cooperated well in the past and that co-operation should continue.

The Senator is a real diplomat.

He is a Kerryman.

I previously raised the issue of reports reaching the newspapers before reaching Senators. I know this is not the Leader's fault. Last night I mentioned to Deputy Gilmore a newspaper article entitled "Marine to Devolve Some Tasks to Other Agencies". This article states that a statement was issued last Monday or Tuesday by the Minister for the Marine, Deputy Barrett. Other people involved in marine affairs, including the Dingle harbour authority, received this statement last Monday. It is hard to swallow that Members first read about these matters in the newspapers. I disagree with the content of the report and that is why it should be published as soon as possible.

The Department of the Marine is a good Department which has grown over the last number of years. It is now devolving many of its duties to other bodies while maintaining control. This is not a good development. We should debate these matters before the recess. I have asked for a debate on fisheries. However, both Houses of the Oireachtas should receive reports before the newspapers.

I appreciate the extra item which has been added to today's business following a request from Senator Henry. Can the Leader clarify what legislation will be taken in the coming weeks? Whatever happens in the Dáil, the Seanad will continue to sit. Time should be taken to ensure that Bills are passed. For example, the Leader might clarify when the Adoption (No. 2) Bill, 1996, is to be taken. It may impact on a small number of families, but it has an important impact on those families. This Bill should have a particular priority despite delays elsewhere.

Does the Leader have an opinion on the report in The Irish Times today which states that there is a possibility that the Minister for Finance may bring in another budget before the election?

He will appreciate that.

Senator Fitzgerald raised the circulation of reports, which has been mentioned before. We expressed our dissatisfaction when we were expected to debate issues without seeing relevant reports. That matter was raised at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and I understood that action was to be taken on it. It would have been desirable for us to see the two most recent reports of the Economic and Social Research Institute, although I understand there would be no obligation to circulate them. However, reports from Government Departments should be available to Members. It might be argued that these can be found in the Library, but the more popular ones can be difficult to obtain and there may be a delay before one gets to read the report. The Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution's report comments on Seanad reform. It says that the consultative aspect of the Seanad should be improved and enhanced. For that to happen, we should have these reports available to us. The Leader should look at this issue.

I echo earlier calls for the Leader to tell us what legislation we will be dealing with next week. I am also concerned that Private Members' time seems to have been abandoned. It is one of the most central parts of our work and allows the Opposition in particular to bring forward proposals to be debated. I raised the crisis in agricultural incomes several weeks ago and suggested that, if necessary, the Government could allocate Private Members' time to deal with this matter. I am worried that we may lose Private Members' time.

Regarding the MRBI poll results, I wondered if it would allow us more time to complete the Government's legislative programme and I echo Senator O'Toole's sentiments.

It is to allow the Minister for Finance to bring in another budget.

I ask the Leader to inquire of the Minister for Health when the report of the National Task Force on Suicide will be published. This was due to be published at the end of last year and there were some delays, but most of the work has been completed.

I raise this matter because of reports this morning that on 5 March a man hung himself after trying to have himself admitted to a psychiatric clinic and hospital some days prior to that. He was refused admittance. There is an urgent need to ensure that there are suicide prevention programmes introduced. Our hospitals and clinics must understand the signs of people who are in danger of taking their own lives.

Yesterday on the Order of Business I requested that a task force be set up to deal with the problems of those who have been abused while in care, and who then go on to get into trouble after their release. I did not realise how many people would contact me over the past 12 hours in connection with this. It is of major concern, not only for our parliamentary work but in relation to the abuse of people's civil rights, and must be looked at carefully.

People are taken into care because of problems with their upbringing, the atmosphere in which they live or the abuse they have suffered. They are thrown out of care at a certain age and nobody keeps a register of where they go or of what problems they have after that. This should be treated as a matter of urgency because the courts are clogged up with people who should not be there but who should have been looked after. A register should be kept of everyone who has gone into care and State agencies should follow up on these people's progress to determine if they will continue to get into difficulty. The calls I have received indicate that there is huge concern about this.

I have asked for a debate on the National Roads Authority on many occasions. I am frustrated, because if one travels the N9 or N10 between Dublin and Waterford, there is total gridlock between Kilkenny and Waterford and the National Roads Authority will do nothing about the entrance to and exit from Waterford. That creates huge problems because the major hospital in the south-east is on the wrong side of the river for access. That creates huge problems in south Tipperary, Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford.

The Senator is looking for a debate.

This matter should be dealt with as a matter of urgency.

Will the Merchants Shipping (Commissioners of Irish Lights) Bill, 1997, be introduced before the end of the session? It is of concern to people on the west coast. Also, can the Leader confirm 6 June as the date for dealing with the Shannon River Council Bill?

I can after yesterday.

I thank the Leader for organising time for statements today. There is more turmoil each day in that area.

I renew my request for a debate on agriculture. There is a crisis in that area. Incomes are falling in the dairy and beef sectors and the Leader indicated that he would allow time for a debate on this item before the recess. Private Members' Time was mentioned but this is so important that it should be dealt with in Government time if possible.

I do not wish to be contentious but yesterday, in the course of heated exchanges, the Leader made some suggestions about a childcare case. Has he acquainted himself with the facts and would he like to make a statement to remove from the record the suggestion that intemperate words of mine caused a judge to remove himself from a case and caused that case to collapse? That is not what happened.

We are not discussing that matter now.

I do not wish to be contentious, but if the Leader wishes to discuss the details with me, I will be happy to do so.

I join with Senator Rory Kiely in calling for a debate on agriculture, which is a very important industry. It would allow Members an opportunity to welcome the achievement of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry in having the live export of cattle resumed.

What achievement is the Senator talking about? He is talking through his hat. Is he referring to farmers in Laois and Offaly?

Senator Enright without interruption.

People of all political viewpoints who are interested in agriculture will welcome this resumption of live cattle exports. There has been much difficulty with BSE and so on but even members of Fianna Fáil must accept the achievements of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry.

We are not debating that matter on the Order of Business.

Is losing live exports an achievement?

The Minister steered our agriculture industry through a difficult period which has been recognised by the Government.

The Minister made it difficult for farmers.

Senator Enright, a question for the Leader please.

I had hoped for general acclaim but at the least the IFA and farmers are happy with the Minister's achievements.

Yesterday an important decision was made by the Court of Humans Rights in the trial of Dusan Tadic. It is the first time since World War II that somebody was convicted of crimes against humanity. People in Europe and elsewhere will recognise the importance of convictions against people who have committed such war crimes. It was a historic ruling by a democratic——

We are not debating court decisions on the Order of Business.

This decision is welcome and I hope more such decisions will be taken.

I forgot to mention there will be sos today from 1.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m. Senator Fitzgerald and others raised the question of future business. I remind colleagues that this House will remain in session even when the other House is not sitting. If Senators wish to meet over the coming weeks to discuss the many reports on which debates have been requested, I will have no difficulty calling Senator Dardis and others up from the plains of County Kildare.

The Leader is very generous.

Discussions can be open ended and Senators may have as much time as they wish and come to whatever conclusions they believe may be appropriate.

The legislation we hope to present to the House over the coming weeks includes the Youth Work Bill, 1997. On the Adoption (No. 2) Bill, 1996, to which Senator O'Toole alluded, attempts are being made to try to resolve some of the problems which arose. It is at Report State and will be presented in the coming week. I will have a specific time for colleagues later today. There are some local difficulties with the Merchant Shipping (Commissioners of Irish Lights) Bill, 1997. I understand strenous attempts are being made to reconcile these differences and to please all parties. If that is possible, the Bill will be brought before the House.

The Local Government (Financial Provisions) Bill, 1997, should give Senator Lanigan an opportunity to discuss the funding of roads, but not in the way he wishes. That Bill will be taken today. We hope to deal with the Licensing (Combating Drug Abuse) Bill, 1997, which is a short and important Bill. I will furnish colleagues with the full list later.

The Electoral Bill, 1994, will also be taken as will the Prompt Payment of Accounts Bill, 1997, for which there will be general agreement as it will oblige State boards and bodies to pay on time suppliers and those who provide services. Small suppliers of services are often left waiting months for payment. The ICC Bank Bill and the Bill to establish the hepatitis C tribunal on a statutory basis will also be taken. That is the legislation I hope to present to the House over the coming weeks. If other matters arise, the Opposition Whips and I will do everything to try to facilitate colleagues who may be involved elsewhere.

Senator Fitzgerald and Senator Dardis raised the question of reports not being furnished to Members, which is disgraceful. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges investigated the matter and discovered that the decision on what reports would be circulated was at the discretion of staff in the Department of Finance. We made a strong protest on behalf of the House about this practice and asked the Minister to ensure all reports are furnished to Members of both Houses as a matter of course. It should not be left to the discretion of a well meaning civil servant who decides what is and what is not good for us and what we should or should not be allowed to read. I hope that protest will bring some positive results.

The Minister for Finance, who will be in the House shortly, will be able to give Senator O'Toole the details of his next budget. I have no doubt the next budget will be presented by this Minister.

Will it be before the next election?

It is immaterial whether it is before or after the next election.

Senator Dardis made a valid point on Private Members' time. There will be Private Members' time next week, although last week the Labour Party voluntarily gave up its time to allow for other business. It is Fianna Fáil's Private Members' time next week and I will talk to Senator Rory Kiely after the Order of Business about his motion on agriculture to see if we could combine his Private Members' time so that we could have a longer discussion. I will issue a list of dates for Private Members' time for the rest of the session.

Senator Neville raised the question of the report of the National Task Force on Suicide. I pay tribute to the work he has done on presenting information on the reality of suicide and the suffering of families of suicide victims. This report should be debated in the House. I compliment Senator Lanigan on raising the question of victims of abuse. He struck a chord in that there is a considerable problem. If there is time, it is worth spending even an hour debating the issue. Senator Henry mentioned the debate on the Great Lakes region.

Senator Roche raised a matter arising from yesterday's Order of Business. From my point of view, things said in the heat of the moment are often better unsaid. I put on record that I have not re-read the correspondence and I do not imply any question mark over Senator Roche's integrity. I would hate a contrary impression to be given. We have known each other a long time. We can discuss this matter afterwards if there is a need for further discussion. Senator Enright raised a number of issues. I concur with the points he made on the successes of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry and the confidence of all sides in the Minister. I also commend Senator Enright for raising the issue of war crimes. It is important that at least a small number of those who committed horrific crimes under the guise of political cover during the awful war in Bosnia should be brought to justice and that the civilised world should state that such behaviour is unacceptable.

I meant to refer to the United Nations tribunal in the Hague.

Order of Business agreed to.
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