Today's Order of Business is item 1 and item 13, motion 18. The contribution of spokespersons on item 1 will not exceed 20 minutes and that of other Senators will not exceed ten minutes. Item 13, motion 18, will be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. Since the Government has made its decision on the Luas proposal, will the Leader hold a lengthy debate next week on it and on the overall plan? It would be wrong if a matter which will affect the future of the city for the next 100 years and which has been discussed in every other forum was not discussed in the House. If the Leader agrees to this debate, will he ask the Minister for Public Enterprise to agree to a question and answer format at the end of it? There are many questions Members would like to put to the Minister on the issue on which many people still have an open mind. Now the Minister for the Environment and Local Government is back in the country, will the Leader let us know the outcome of his discussions with him on when the Shannon River Council Bill, 1998, will be taken?
On the point raised by Senator Manning on the Shannon River Council Bill, 1998, the Leader is not really enthusiastic about this legislation despite the fact that when he was on this side of the House he was committed to it. There is a question of integrity in politics involved. From the point of view of understanding the idea of policy, I expect the Government parties to be four square in support of this legislation and perhaps extend it. It is my intention, in consultation with those who have put their names to the legislation, to ask that this be put on the Order Paper this week unless the Leader has a clear and established position. The Leader is stringing us along, although I do not believe he intends to do so.
Time after time we have asked for a debate on industrial relations. The Leader has given a commitment and it is unfair that we have not found the time to hold such a debate. I do not see why it could not be held tomorrow afternoon or some time over the next week. This matter must be well discussed before the end of Partnership 2000 given the impact of the euro, the minimum wage issue, the Garda and nurses disputes, etc., on industrial relations. I urge the Leader to agree to a debate rather than have us table an amendment to the Order of Business each day.
As regards industrial relations, we have raised this issue almost every week. The Leader indicated he would hold a debate and I support the call for an early discussion because a number of issues have been raised, in particular the Garda pay claim, trade union recognition, the Ryanair dispute and so on. A full debate is needed, particularly in the context of Partnership 2000.
On the Cabinet's decision on the Luas project referred to in item 19, I echo Senator Manning's request for a debate this week, or certainly no later than next week, on the Atkins report and in the Minister's presence. If the Minister is not present, the debate will be hardly worthwhile. I understand the Cabinet's decision is at variance with the Atkins report. New elements were raised, such as the line to the northside which, thankfully, has been reintroduced. There will also be an underground section which was not proposed in the Atkins report, although the underground section from Heuston Station to the city centre which was sought has not been included. Serious issues involving cost, the timescale and geological feasibility arise. It appears a political decision was made without the benefit of a researched plan. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister to the House for a debate on this matter at the earliest opportunity so Members can find out the exact nature of the decision taken.
Will the Leader invite the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to attend a debate in the near future on the anomalies in telephone charges? The same charges for telephone calls should be available in rural Ireland. Businesses, health boards and hospitals among others are being affected by the difference in charges. Ireland is a small country and it is unfair that local call charges apply to half the population which is based in Dublin while people in rural Ireland must pay trunk call charges. It is long past time to address this anomaly. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on this matter which will hopefully influence Telecom Éireann to examine this matter. Major international telephone companies want a share of the action in Ireland and it is time Telecom Éireann looked at its operations. It should accommodate people and ensure fair play. I hope the Leader will arrange a debate because the House has a contribution to make.
The Senator should have thought about that before the charges were changed.
I support Senator Manning's call for a debate on the Dublin light rail system in view of the Cabinet decision taken yesterday. I also support the comments made by Senator Costello. As a result of yesterday's decision, £114 million of EU funding which was targeted at the original proposal cannot now be drawn down given the new plans agreed by the Cabinet, although the Minister assured us that money has not been lost. Many miles of mainline rail track are severely deficient and dangerous. Although the authorities may not admit it, a recent derailment was caused by track failure. These miles of track, which are in the west and north-west in the main and include the lines from Mullingar to Sligo, Athlone to Westport and also Mallow to Killarney, need major upgrading. They have not been attended to for over 50 years. I hope a large portion of the £114 million of EU funds, which have been released from the Luas project in Dublin, will be directed towards that element of the transport infrastructure. This aspect should be included in a debate on rail safety next week which I ask the Leader to arrange.
The Senator is too late. Deputy Browne, who represents Carlow-Kilkenny, has earmarked it for the Carlow by-pass.
Many Members have called for a debate on the likely impact the reduction in EU Structural Funds will have on Ireland, and particularly the likely effects on the western seaboard. Many social and economic indicators have proved conclusively that this part of the country has not benefited to the same degree as the east from Structural Funds.
The recent report by the mid-west business forum on the likely effect of the year 2002 and the reduction in the market share of Shannon Airport vis-a-vis Dublin Airport is a further indication of the need for a debate on the likely effects of future reductions and the possibility of seeking Objective One status for certain areas of the country.
I support the call by Senator Manning and others for a debate on the Luas project. I am particularly concerned about the vagueness regarding funding and I want the Minister to deal with this aspect in the House. I hope other infrastructural projects throughout the country which may qualify for capital or European funding will not be jeopardised as a result of the increased cost. Dr. Garret FitzGerald made a strong point about the need for extra money and nobody knows more about Luas than he. I am concerned that the project is vague; I heard it referred to on radio as the never never project. It is important that the Minister comes into the House and explains how she intends funding Luas.
I join the chorus of those seeking a debate on Luas. The House should be grateful for the moderate and wise way in which Senator Manning introduced this matter and was followed by Senator Connor. It was first raised in this House and was given a very reasoned and thorough examination. If anybody thinks this House is not relevant, they should read that debate and mark, learn and take note of the fact that it was the University Senators who held the balance of power and inserted the enabling amendment in that legislation without which the report would not have been commissioned and consideration of the underground option would not have been possible.
I do not want to claim that uniquely for us but we should claim it for the Seanad. The debate on that occasion was reasoned on all sides and it was virtually unanimous that there should be proper, serious consideration of the underground option. There was a general balance with some reservations that were expressed that underground was the best option. Senator Manning's suggestion is very good and wise as there are questions about funding and the Minister is capable of answering them. She is fully in charge of her brief and is a woman of considerable courage. I was reading newspapers on a flight to Dublin this afternoon and a number of journalists made the point that it is time Government Departments, particularly hers, reclaimed the right to make decisions from the grey people in CIÉ.
Mr. Cregan
I wish to refer to an issue I raised last week. I am the chairman of a voluntary hospital in the Cork region and there is serious concern regarding student nurses. Are Members aware that the lack of facilities for them has reached a serious level? Can we have a discussion with the relevant Minister or Junior Minister to seek answers to the problem? It is only right and proper that this House asks questions about the lack of facilities for student nurses.
Nurses are not prepared to stay, particularly in the Southern Health Board region; they are moving to other regions or emigrating. This is causing a serious problem.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform for a progress report on the Garda dispute or is the Minister still in a blue funk over the blue 'flu? I am disappointed that there appears to be little or no progress and attitudes are hardening. It is bad for the country that this situation still pertains.
As a Dubliner I am exceedingly disappointed about the further delay in the Luas project. Unlike Senator Norris, I will not join the Minister for Public Enterprise's fan club. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel?
The Senator is dim enough to need one.
I welcome the Government's announcement of the REPS package — £2 billion over 15 years — which will help to underpin the economy of rural Ireland, particularly in agriculture. It will also provide an opportunity to question the Minister about his rural development policy. Will the Leader ask him to come to the House and outline his and the Government's approach to the White Paper and the progress that has been made following discussions on the matter throughout the country? An exchange of views would be very welcome.
I support the request for the inclusion on the Order Paper, if possible next week, of the Shannon River Council Bill. As was stated by the Leader last week, the Bill was introduced by Members on his side of the House in the last Seanad. We can all support its broad principles and it would be a worthy subject for debate in the near future.
Will the Leader facilitate a debate on refugee policy? An applicant's right to stay in this country is determined, both in the initial and appeal stages, without the applicant being interviewed by anyone from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. This is not within the letter or spirit of the regulations. In relation to the case which is currently in the public domain, I appeal to the Minister to exercise his right, on humanitarian grounds, not to force that family either to return to Burundi or to face the current wave of neo-Nazi political backlash in Germany.
I am always impressed by Senator Norris' ability to mention the fact that he has either just arrived or is about to leave on a plane and that he read about a topic in a newspaper on a plane. I would like to know which paper.
I buy all the Irish papers. I am very patriotic. I decline to buy any papers owned by Rupert Murdoch.
I also endorse the call for a debate on Luas. Senator Jackman's reference to former Taoiseach, Dr. FitzGerald, is very enlightening. I am sure that he, above all, is more than happy with the Minister's decision to put the system underground as he has been promoting that view for some time.
He would not be happy about the funding.
It is right that this House should have an opportunity to commend the Minister on a very courageous and far reaching decision which has been taken in the best interest of the capital city and of the country in general.
Where does Senator Mooney stand on the Shannon Bill?
The Leader will be aware of the comments made by Senator Connor about the dispersal of the surplus of £114 million. In the context of the debate on Luas, I will ask if any of this money can be spent in the manner Senator Connor, other Senators and I have been advocating. The EU has refused to co-finance railway development west of Mullingar. That was a scandalous decision. Now that we have this surplus money this House should consistently and persistently lobby for its use in the west of Ireland. We cannot stand back and see an expenditure of between £400 million and £500 million in the capital city and on the east coast while no money goes to the rest of the country. That is unacceptable.
It is important that we have a debate on Luas and I would welcome the opportunity to make a contribution to that debate.
We heard last week of files missing from the Department of Finance. Could the Leader discover, for the benefit of the House, how many files are missing from other Departments? It is important that Departments know where their files are. They may be mislaid in storage but they may also have been taken out on loan.
I fail to see the relevance of this matter to the Order of Business. I suspect Senators are taking advantage of the leniency I have shown recently and of my reluctance, where possible, to interrupt Senators.
Especially Senator Mooney.
I have always appreciated your patience, a Chathaoirligh. Can the Leader discover if it is possible to remove files indefinitely and what check is made when files are removed?
Files have been missing from Departments for many years. We saw that in the recent film about the Ballyseedy incident. I join with Senator Chambers in calling for a debate on rural development. The Minister, Deputy Davern, is highly qualified to speak on this area having spent several years in Europe, and he is bringing his expertise to bear. It is appropriate that we should debate the information he has gathered from various seminars around the country. The £2 billion to be invested in REPS over 15 years is an important development for rural Ireland.
The Minister is to be congratulated for what she has done on Luas. I hope the Leader can provide time for a debate and we should not confine it to Luas but should cover the rail system nationally. There are implications for the rest of the country and western counties should be considered.
We should also debate the financial institutions, especially the banks. There have been tentative discussions but we should have a full scale debate because of the further disclosures. That should take place as soon as possible and it is appropriate that it should happen now that we have qualified for participation in the euro. All financial institutions will come under scrutiny in the coming months and years and this House has a role to play in that.
The House should have a debate on how the Government should spend the money which it obviously does not need for Luas. Since some rural railway stations do not have toilet facilities and are in a bad condition, some of that money be channelled into rural Ireland. It should not be lost to us.
I echo Senator Cregan's call for help for student nurses. There is much concern about care for the elderly in our community and the good work nurses are doing. Many old people want to stay in their communities but there are no backup facilities for them. The number of public health nurses should be doubled. A debate on this subject should cover all these issues.
I welcome the debate on Luas. It was only one of many components of a scheme to help resolve Dublin's traffic problem. If the £140 million cannot be drawn down in the short term for Luas it should be spent on other measures to relieve Dublin's traffic problem.
I agree with those who wish to debate Luas but we have had traffic gridlock in Kilkenny for many years.
Dustin was right — bring the DART to Dingle.
If some of the £140 million could be spent on Kilkenny's traffic problems and providing a fast commuter service to Dublin, it would alleviate many traffic problems in Dublin because cars would be taken off the road. We should see where the traffic comes from in the first place.
Perhaps the Leader could make time available in the next few days for a short debate on the Middle East. Many people are currently celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the State of Israel but that also marks 50 years of deprivation of the Palestinian people who were thrown out of their homes. We should celebrate with the people of Israel but we should also discuss what happened to the people of Deir Yassin and various other places in Palestine. We may be able to say something that will not exacerbate the situation but may help to progress the peace process in the Middle East, which is of as much importance to Europe and the Mediterranean Basin as is the resolution of the problem in the North to us.
I support the call for a debate on Luas and welcome the Government decision. While the spin on the decision is that it is a loss for Dublin, in time it will be seen to have been wise, prudent and well thought out. I agree with Senator Joe Doyle's view that Luas was but one part of a multi-faceted package to attempt to address the gridlock in Dublin. I am sure that when the matter is debated, all parties will agree that while the south, south-west and other regions deserve investment, Dublin needs its fair share.
Senators Manning, Costello, Connor, Jackman, Norris, Ridge, Gallagher, Mooney, Finneran, O'Toole, Tom Hayes, Joe Doyle, Lanigan, Liam Fitzgerald and others requested a debate on Luas. I will let the House know tomorrow morning when this timely debate will take place.
With regard to the queries raised by Senators O'Toole, Gallagher and others on the Shannon River Council Bill, I hope to have information for the House tomorrow morning. Senators O'Toole and Costello requested a debate on industrial relations. I am trying to have time set aside and hope to hold a debate at the earliest opportunity.
I will be able to facilitate Senator McGowan's urgent request for a debate on telephone charges. However, if I am unable to facilitate him before the next Fianna Fáil Private Members' time, I will include it then.
Senator Coogan expressed concern about EU funding and Structural Funds for the west, especially the retention of Objective One status by the mid-west business forum. Many Senators, including Senators Mooney and Finneran, requested a debate on this last week. I will arrange to have the matter discussed at the earliest opportunity.
I will be able to facilitate the request by Senators Cregan and Hayes for a debate on nursing. Senators Chambers and Finneran requested a debate on rural development. I also wish to be associated with their words of welcome for the £2 billion allocation to the REPS package. This issue is dear to the hearts of most Members and there will be a debate.
I can facilitate Senator Gallagher's request for a debate on the Government's refugee policy but I will not be able to arrange a debate for at least four weeks. Perhaps he could discuss with his leader the possibility of having this issue debated next week in the Labour Party Private Members' time.
Senators Mooney, Connor and Finneran are anxious that the railway system in the west and throughout the county benefits from the use of the £114 million designated for Luas. Perhaps this and the proposal made by Senator Manning could be included in the forthcoming debate.
Senator Finneran requested an urgent debate on the banks and other financial institutions. I have agreed to such a debate and am doing all I can to arrange one within the next three to four weeks. Senator Lanigan called for a debate on the Middle East. I will try to ensure time is put aside for this matter.
I agree with Senator Cregan's sentiments as expressed in his call for a debate on nursing. I will look into this as early as possible.
My question about the Garda was not answered.
I have no control over the Leader's reply.
Order of Business agreed to.