Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 3 Jun 1998

Vol. 155 No. 17

Investor Compensation Bill, 1998: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The Bill which I am introducing today in this House does four things. First, it provides for compensation for clients of investment and insurance intermediaries, including Stock Exchange member firms and banks which provide investment services to customers. Second, it ensures that investors will be entitled to compensation equivalent to 20,000 ECU, which is worth about £15,500 at present, or 90 per cent of the amount lost, whichever is the lesser. Third, it implements the EU Investor Compensation Directive. Fourth, it provides for amendments to the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, the Stock Exchange Act, 1995, the Insurance Act, 1989, and the Solicitors (Amendment) Act, 1994.

The Investor Compensation Bill marks a further significant step in the development of the regulatory framework for the financial sector in this country. The past ten years have seen the emergence of a substantial body of legislation in this area. At the beginning of that period, the banks and insurance companies were effectively the only regulated entities in the financial sector. In the case of banks, in particular, the primary concern was prudential, the main objective being to ensure that the failure of one bank did not endanger the banking system as a whole. Further legislation in the late 1980s extended regulation to financial institutions such as the building societies. Again, the primary concern was prudential, although it was also necessary to comply with EU legislation in the area, designed to bring about a single market in financial services.

More recently, a modern system of regulation has been extended to the retail financial sector, notably through the Stock Exchange Act, 1995, and the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995. The extension of regulation to the retail sector was necessitated in part by EU legislation, but also because there was a clear need to ensure that the sector was properly supervised. As a result, while the Stock Exchange and Investment Intermediaries Acts transposed the Investment Services Directive, the Investment Intermediaries Act in particular went far beyond what was required by the directive, introducing regulation to the wider retail investment sector, with the exception of insurance intermediaries.

Members of the House will no doubt be aware that the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment has announced that she proposes to introduce legislation which will bring insurance intermediaries into regulation under the Investment Intermediaries Act, with the Central Bank as the supervisory authority. The purpose of regulation is twofold, to protect investors and to promote confidence in the financial system. There have been a number of cases in recent years where investors have lost money, in some cases substantial amounts, through the default of intermediaries to whom they entrusted their savings. Let us be clear about one thing: no regulatory system can guarantee that a regulated entity will not fail. What we can do is put in place a system of regulation which is comparable with the best standards internationally and this is what we have done. Now it is time to look at the question of compensation for investors who lose money because an investment intermediary is unable to meet its liabilities.

Compensation is of course desirable but it comes at a cost: in addition to the cost of compensation itself, there will inevitably be administrative overheads to be paid for and there will also be the cost of verifying investors' claims for compensation. Not everyone is agreed that compensation is a good thing. Those opposed to compensation base their view on the principle of caveat emptor which suggests that investors should bear all the risks associated with investment themselves, including the risk that the intermediary will defraud them. Those who advocate that view believe that it is up to investors themselves to take the necessary precautions when picking an intermediary and entrusting their funds to that person. However, the Government takes the view that the stronger argument is that individual investors are not generally well equipped to make an informed assessment of the risk that the investment intermediary to whom he or she proposes to give money will fail. In addition, people make mistakes: it can be easy with the benefit of hindsight to criticise people for believing promises of higher than normal returns on their investments, but in many cases the motive for believing the promises is not so much greed as a lack of the knowledge required to appreciate the risks involved. A further point is that the provision of a system of investor compensation should help to reduce the systemic risk that a single failure of an investment firm will trigger a wider loss of confidence in the rest of the financial sector.

Having looked at the broad principles of investor compensation, we now come to the details of what is needed in this Bill. In the first instance, we must implement the EU Investor Compensation Directive. This is a single market directive intended to ensure that all investment firms which have the so-called "passport" to sell their services throughout the European Union will be covered by minimum compensation arrangements. This means that an investor will be able to entrust money to an investment firm located anywhere within the EU knowing that compensation arrangements are in place to safeguard the funds involved.

The minimum that we are required to do under the directive is to ensure that investor compensation arrangements are in place for the minority of investment firms which are subject to it. This could broadly be described as the bigger firms, such as stockbrokers, portfolio managers and discretionary investment intermediaries. Typically these are firms which handle or control investor funds and provide services on a broad range of investment products, such as shares, units in collective investment undertakings and certain types of derivative product. About 100 firms are potentially subject to the directive at present.

However, the directive does not cover what might loosely be called the retail end of the market. An example would be an investment firm which is a restricted activity investment product intermediary for the purposes of the Investment Intermediaries Act. This lengthy description refers to intermediaries who sell packaged investment products such as unit trusts and who are not allowed to handle client funds, apart from taking deposits where they have an appointment in writing from a credit institution to act as a deposit agent. The directive does not apply to insurance intermediaries. Therefore, the directive applies only to a minority of investment firms. However, the Government has taken the opportunity provided by the directive to put in place a comprehensive system of compensation for the entire investment intermediary sector and to extend investor compensation to insurance intermediaries.

The insurance industry continues to attract significant amounts of investment funds, particularly from private investors through single premium life insurance products. The Government felt that it would be anomalous to introduce wide-ranging investor compensation arrangements which ignored the insurance sector, particularly when many intermediaries are involved in both insurance and non-insurance investment business. The Bill also extends the compensation arrangements to any general insurance business, such as car and home insurance placed with an insurance agent or broker. The Investor Compensation Bill will, therefore, cover both the life and non-life activities of insurance intermediaries as well as the business of what I might call "pure" investment intermediaries. The existing protections for insurance clients under the Insurance Acts will remain in place. For example, the provisions ensuring that a client is covered for insurance where the insurance company has invited renewal of a premium or accepted an order once the client has paid the premium to the agent or broker.

Under the investor compensation directive, clients of investment firms are entitled to minimum compensation of the lesser of 20,000 ECU, that is about £15,500 or 90 per cent of the amount lost, where an investment firm is unable to return funds or securities belonging to those clients. The Government has decided that this is an appropriate level at which to set the entitlement to investor compensation generally under this legislation. This provides a reasonable amount of compensation while at the same time giving some recognition to the caveat emptor principle.

The directive also allows member states to limit entitlement to compensation to private investors and smaller companies. In this context smaller companies are those which meet two of the following three criteria: a balance sheet total of less than 2.5 million ECU (about £2 million); net turnover below 5 million ECU (about £4 million pounds) and less than 50 employees. The Government takes the view that this is a reasonable approach since the purpose of the directive and this legislation is to protect the small investor. It has decided to limit compensation generally under this legislation to private investors and small companies only.

I now turn to how investor compensation arrangements will be established. The Central Bank will be the supervisory authority for investor compensation. The bank is already the supervisory authority for stockbrokers, credit institutions and investment business firms and is the proposed supervisory authority for insurance intermediaries under legislation being drafted by the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

The Bill provides for the establishment of a company called the Investor Compensation Company. The company will oversee compensation arrangements for the majority of investment firms, including insurance intermediaries, with the exception of one group. Accountants who provide investment services only as an incidental part of their professional activities as accountants can be regulated by their professional body under the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, under the overall supervision of the Central Bank. Building on this, the Investor Compensation Bill allows the accountancy bodies to run compensation schemes for their members. The compensation schemes for accountants will have to provide compensation cover to the standard required under the Bill and will have to be approved by the Central Bank. This approach is appropriate because the accountants who will be covered by such schemes will not be fully fledged investment firms.

The Investor Compensation Company will be established by the Central Bank. It will be a company limited by guarantee and the members of the company will be prescribed by the Minister for Finance, with the agreement of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. The company will have equal numbers of directors representing the financial services sector and representing consumer interests. The Minister for Finance will be responsible for the appointment of the directors representing industry and consumer interests, again with the agreement of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. The Governor of the Central Bank will appoint the chairperson and deputy chairperson of the board. The company will oversee investor compensation arrangements generally, and it will be responsible for paying compensation. It will decide whether it should maintain a single compensation fund for all investment firms or whether there should be separate compensation funds for different categories of investment firm. It will also decide on the level of contributions to be paid by investment firms.

That is the broad outline of how investor compensation will be structured. I now turn to the proposals included in the Bill for the actual payment of compensation. Compensation will be payable where a client of an investment firm is unable to obtain the return of money or investment instruments from the investment firm. The Central Bank will first make a determination that an investment firm is unable to repay money or investment instruments. The company will then invite applications for compensation from clients of the investment firm and will place advertisements in the newspapers inviting applications. Claims will have to be verified and this will be done by the liquidator where one has been appointed by the courts. Otherwise, the bank can appoint an administrator to establish what is owed to clients of the firm. Once an investor's claim has been verified, the company must pay compensation within three months. This period can be extended to six months where the bank agrees. In the case of non-life insurance, compensation will, within the limits provided for in the Bill, cover the premium paid or the loss suffered by an investor where a claim under an insurance policy arises. Existing protection for insurance consumers, for example, where an insurance company has invited renewal of an insurance premium, will be maintained.

Investor compensation will be met by the Investor Compensation Company in the first instance from the contributions paid by investment firms. I emphasise that the Exchequer will not be involved in funding investor compensation. In the case of compensation claims involving restricted activity investment product intermediaries and insurance intermediaries, the product producers involved will be responsible for some of the funding. The product producers — in other words, banks, building societies, collective investment undertakings, insurance companies, etc., who give such intermediaries written appointments to sell their products — will be required to reimburse the company for compensation payable to clients of such intermediaries where the clients have given money to the intermediary for transmission to an identifiable product producer from whom the intermediary held a written appointment.

This is the broad outline of what is proposed in relation to investor compensation. There are, of course, other provisions in the Act designed to flesh out the detail, to transpose specific requirements of the Investor Compensation Directive and so on. I might mention in particular the provision in the Act relating to solicitors.

Solicitors are exempt from regulation under the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, if they provide only investment services which are incidental to their professional activities. The Law Society compensation fund covers clients of a solicitor in respect of legal services, including financial services. However, there was a doubt whether the society's compensation fund would cover financial services which did not arise from the provision of legal services. Accordingly, the Solicitors (Amendment) Act, 1994, is being amended to make it clear that the Law Society compensation fund will provide cover for investment and insurance services provided by solicitors where the solicitor is not covered for such services by compensation arrangements under the Investment Compensation Bill or, in other words, if the solicitor is not contributing to a fund maintained by the Investor Compensation Company. These provisions can be found in sections 45 to 47 of the Bill. I should also add that section 2 of the Bill contains a provision exempting certain investment business firms in the International Financial Services Centre from the obligation to participate in investor compensation. The exemption will only apply to entities which are not subject to the Investor Compensation Directive and which do not provide investment services to domestic investors.

I am also proposing a substantial number of amendments to the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995. Senators will recall that the Dáil Select Committee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy compiled a report on the regulation of investment intermediaries following the collapse of the Taylor group of investment companies in August 1996. The committee's report recommended a number of amendments to the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, and many of those recommendations form the basis for the amendments which I am proposing today.

I will turn now to a description of the provisions of the Bill. I should, of course, emphasise that I do not propose to comment on each section but rather to highlight for Senators the main features of the Bill and the purpose underlying certain provisions.

The Bill is divided into five Parts. The first Part deals with general matters. Part II establishes the Investor Compensation Company Limited which will have an important role in investor compensation, as I will outline shortly, and provides that the accountancy bodies will be able to establish their own compensation arrangements. Part III provides for the payment of compensation to clients of investment firms. Part IV contains miscellaneous provisions, including the provision of information to clients of investment firms about compensation and technical sections arising from the terms of the Investment Compensation Directive as well as a number of provisions relating to solicitors. Part V contains amendments to the Insurance Act, 1989, the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, and the Stock Exchange Act, 1995.

Section 1 provides for the commencement for the provisions of the Act. The Minister for Finance will commence provisions of the Act by regulation. Section 2 sets out the definitions used in the Bill. As I mentioned earlier, the Bill covers the activities of investment business firms, Stock Exchange member firms, credit institutions and insurance intermediaries. These are collectively referred to as investment firms. Section 2 also includes an obligation on solicitors who are restricted activity investment product intermediaries to inform the Central Bank and the Investment Compensation Company Limited of their existence. The reason for this is that while solicitors are exempt from regulation under the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, if they only provide investment services which are incidental to their professional activities, a solicitor who was providing investment services which were not connected with legal services is required to be a contributor to a compensation fund operated by the Investor Compensation Company Limited.

Section 7 provides for the repeal of certain provisions in the Insurance Act, 1989, the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, and the Stock Exchange Act, 1995, because they will be redundant once the provisions of this legislation are in place. These include the bonding provisions in section 47 of the Insurance Act, 1989, and section 51 of the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, as well as section 28, subsection (4), of the Investment Intermediaries Act. Section 8 designates the bank as the supervisory authority for investor compensation schemes and as the competent authority for the purposes of the EU Investor Compensation Directive.

Part II of the Bill deals with the administration of investor compensation arrangements, the establishment of the Investor Compensation Company Limited and the approval of compensation schemes for certified persons, which in practice means accountants who provide investment services only as an incidental part of their professional activities.

Sections 10 to 20 provide for the establishment by the bank of the Investor Compensation Company Limited. The company will establish funds out of which clients of investment firms will be paid compensation under this legislation and will set the amount of the contributions to be paid by investment firms to those funds. I have already dealt with how the company will be organised in my opening remarks so I do not need to go into the details again.

Section 21 requires investment firms to make contributions to the compensation funds maintained by the company. An investment firm which does not pay its contribution in full on time will be subject to interest payments on the amount not paid. This section also provides that the company may, when setting the rates of contribution, take account of investment business done by investment firms before the legislation was commenced, in cases where the investment firm is subject to the investor compensation directive.

The reason for this particular provision is that compensation under the terms of the directive will be retrospective, in the sense that it will cover money and investment instruments given to the investment firm before the commencement of this Act. A retrospective provision such as this would not normally be acceptable in Irish law; however, our legal advice is that the directive is retrospective in this way. We are providing accordingly for the payment of compensation on a retrospective basis to the extent that this is required by the directive, in Part III of the Act. The section also allows the bank to impose conditions and requirements on investment firms.

Section 22 deals with the maintenance of funds by the company. The section specifies that the company will be responsible for deciding on the contributions to be paid by investment firms and on the amount of the reserves to be maintained in a fund. The company must consult the bank before deciding on the contributions to be paid, since the bank will be the supervisory authority and will have first hand knowledge of the sector. It is proposed that funding of investor compensation will be prospective — in other words, that the company will build up reserves in order to meet claims for compensation — rather than collect contributions to pay claims as they arise. The company will be required to ensure that it is in a position to pay reasonably foreseeable claims for compensation and must take account of the funding capacity of investment firms when deciding the level of contributions and reserves.

Section 24 requires the company to have procedures in place to investigate complaints against it. Section 25 provides for the approval by the bank of investor compensation schemes for certified persons under the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995. In practice, this means accountants who provide investment services which are incidental to their professional activity and whose professional body is approved by the Central Bank to oversee the investment activities of its members. Section 26 allows the bank to apply to the High Court to revoke the approval of a compensation scheme for certified persons.

Section 27 provides for the issue of directions by the bank to investment firms which do not comply with their obligations under the Act. Those obligations primarily relate to contributions, but could also include providing information needed to work out what contribution to compensation the firm should pay. The bank is empowered to impose restrictions on the investment services provided by an investment firm which does not comply with those obligations. The Second Schedule contains supplementary provisions in relation to a direction by the bank under this section and provides for appeals to the High Court against such a direction.

Section 28 allows the bank to apply to the High Court, following consultation with the company, to have a direction given by it to an investment firm confirmed under section 27. If an investment firm continues to fail to comply with its obligations under the Act the bank can move to revoke the authorisation of the investment firm to provide investment services or in the case of an insurance intermediary ensure the intermediary is unable to act as an insurance intermediary on behalf of insurance companies. It will be an offence for a product producer to do business with an investment firm where the product producer has been informed that the firm has not complied with its obligations under the Act.

Part III deals with the payment of compensation to clients of investment and insurance intermediaries. Compensation will be payable in defined circumstances. There are two possible triggers, one being a court ruling which effectively prevents investors from recovering their funds from an intermediary for the time being. An example would be where the courts appoint a liquidator to an investment firm. The second trigger is where the Central Bank forms the view that an intermediary is unable to return client funds or investment instruments. In that case the bank will make a determination that a firm is unable to meet its obligation.

Section 32 provides that where the bank has made a determination or a court has made a ruling, the company or compensation scheme must inform clients of the investment firm that they have a right to apply for compensation. Clients must be given at least five months within which to apply for compensation. However, this period may be extended in individual cases where the bank believes the client is unable for good reason to lodge a claim within the time allowed.

Section 33 deals with establishing investors' entitlement to compensation. Obviously, each claim for compensation will have to be clearly established: the mere existence of a receipt showing that a client entrusted funds to an intermediary does not, for example, show that the money was not subsequently returned. A liquidator appointed to an investment firm by the courts will be required to establish what is owed to investors by the firm as a priority. If a liquidator has not been appointed, the bank will appoint an administrator to establish what is owed to investors who are claiming compensation.

Section 34 is a key section in the Bill. It provides for the payment of compensation to the client once the claim has been established. The compensation will be paid by the investor compensation company or, in the case of a certified person, which in practice means an accountant, by the compensation scheme of which the accountant is a member.

Section 35 covers the details of compensation payments. Compensation must be paid as soon as practical and at latest within three months of the date when the amount lost by a client was established. This period may be extended for a further period not greater than three months with the agreement of the bank. The compensation scheme will be subrogated to the client of an investment firm in respect of the debt owed by the firm to the client and in respect of any payments from a bond or professional indemnity insurance held by the investment firm. This means that if there is still money in the investment firm after a client has been compensated by the investor compensation company or compensation scheme, the client will not be entitled to any of it until the company or compensation scheme has recovered what it paid out in compensation. In a sense, compensation can be seen as a down payment on the money owed by the investment firm to the client.

Part IV contains miscellaneous provisions relating to investor compensation, including technical provisions arising from the investor compensation directive. Section 41 provides that the bank may require investment firms to hold professional indemnity insurance in respect of investment services they provide. This will provide additional investor protection where an investment firm, for instance, loses client money through negligence.

Section 42 provides exemption from liability in damages for the bank, its employees, officers and authorised officers, and the company, its board, officers and employees in carrying out their functions under the Act unless it is shown that an error or omission was in bad faith, and for a disclaimer of warranty in respect of compensation funds and schemes and investment firms arising from their supervision by the bank. Neither the State, the company nor the bank will be liable arising out of the insolvency or default of performance of a compensation fund or compensation scheme.

Section 43 sets out the penalties for offences created under the Act. The maximum penalty will be a fine of £1 million and, in the case of an individual, imprisonment for up to ten years, or both, on conviction on indictment. On summary conviction, a maximum fine of £1,500 may be imposed and an individual may be sentenced to prison for up to one year. Sections 44 to 47 deal with the provision of investment and insurance services by solicitors, an aspect of the Bill with which I have already dealt.

Part V contains a number of amendments to the Insurance Act, 1989, the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, and the Stock Exchange Act, 1995. I do not propose to go into every section in detail. Senators will find all sections are dealt with in the explanatory memorandum accompanying the draft Bill. I will instead attempt to draw attention to the thinking behind some of the more significant amendments.

Section 51 inserts a number of amendments in section 2, subsection (1) of the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, the definitions section. The definitions of "investment advice", "investment business firm" and "investment instruments" are being amended in the light of experience gained in the implementation of the Act. Section 54 amends section 14 of the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, to provide that the supervisory authority may impose conditions and requirements on investment business firms which are deemed to be authorised under section 26 of the Act as well as in respect of investment business firms which are authorised under section 10 of the Act.

Section 58 amends provisions in section 26 of the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, relating to restricted activity investment product intermediaries. It might be useful to recall what is meant by that term. Restricted intermediaries may only sell products such as unit trusts. They must not handle client funds, the only exception being where they have a written appointment as a deposit agent. Restricted intermediaries are deemed to be authorised on the basis of holding at least one written appointment from a product producer — in other words, they do not need to be formally authorised by the Central Bank. As a result of this amendment a person who wishes to start up as a restricted activity investment product intermediary in future will have to be fully authorised by the bank.

Section 59 inserts a new subsection in section 28 of the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995. Product producers are required to give a written appointment to any investment business firm through which they sell their products and are required to ensure that the investment business firm complies with the Act. This element of industry self-regulation is central to the supervisory regime for restricted intermediaries under Part IV of the Act. The new subsection reinforces this provision by making it an offence for a product producer to deal with an investment business firm without giving an appointment in writing to the firm and without checking that the investment business firm meets the authorisation requirements of the Act.

Section 60 amends section 31 of the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, by the insertion of a new subsection which provides that a product producer who withdraws an appointment in writing from an investment product intermediary must publish notice of the withdrawal of the appointment in writing in one or more newspapers circulating in the State.

Section 63 amends section 52 of the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995. Section 52 is designed to protect client funds in the hands of an investment business firm when a liquidator is appointed to the firm. The client funds must be kept in separate accounts and the liquidator will not be entitled to use those funds to pay off creditors of the firm. However, there may be cases where it is justifiable to use client funds to meet a liquidator's costs because the clients will derive benefit from the actions of the liquidator. It is now proposed to allow such client funds to be used to meet the costs of a liquidator of an investment business firm where the liquidator carries out functions under the Investment Intermediaries Act or under the Investor Compensation Act or distributes the client money and investment instruments, where the firm has no assets from which those costs can be paid. The High Court will have to approve any such use of client funds.

Sections 69 to 81 amend various sections of the Stock Exchange Act, 1995. The Investment Intermediaries Act and the Stock Exchange Act contain virtually identical provisions for authorisation and supervision of Stock Exchange member firms and investment business firms. I am, accordingly, proposing these amendments to the Stock Exchange Act to maintain consistency between the two pieces of legislation. I do not propose to bring the House through the Stock Exchange Act amendments individually. The text of the Investor Compensation Directive is included as the Third Schedule.

I hope this legislation will not be called upon to do what it provides for, that is, to pay compensation to clients of a failed investment or insurance intermediary. Realistically, however, that is a forlorn hope. Human nature will always be there and so we are unlikely to achieve the perfect world. The least we can do is try to minimise the number of defaults and to ensure that, where they occur, there is some alleviation of the hurt and misery that can result from them.

The provision of compensation to investors where an investment firm fails to meet its liabilities to its clients is another important step in putting in place a regulatory system for financial intermediaries and an essential element in protecting investors. The presence of investor compensation arrangements will play an important role in promoting confidence in the investment intermediary sector. This will, in turn, benefit the financial sector as a whole.

This Bill gives an important role in the operation of investor compensation to the investment services industry and to investors. I am confident that they will discharge that role efficiently and well. We have consulted widely in the preparation of this Bill with the financial services industry and with consumer interests and I thank all who contributed to the development of this legislation. I commend the Bill to the House and I look forward to hearing the contributions of Members.

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive overview of this Bill which is overdue. There is no doubt it sets out highly desirable goals and objectives. It seeks to provide compensation for clients of investment and insurance intermediaries where they default to the value of 20,000 ECUs, which is worth approximately £15,500 at present, or 90 per cent of the amount lost. It implements the EU Investor Compensation Directive and it provides for amendments to the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, and the Stock Exchange Act, 1995. It is accepted that the Minister and his Department have consulted widely with the financial services industry and consumer interests in the preparation of the Bill. It is a well thought out measure, although its flaws may only become apparent in time. I welcome its introduction because of the protection it will offer to investors.

I would prefer if the compensation was more than £15,500 or 90 per cent of the amount lost. However, it is accepted that investors should absorb some of the loss and the Minister referred to the caveat emptor principle. It is important that members of the public take all due precautions when deciding where to invest and that they consult wisely before investing their funds. The “buyer beware” principle must also apply in these cases. Insurance agents and brokers have a huge responsibility to their clients who place so much trust in them. Unfortunately, we have seen this confidence shattered on a number of occasions in our recent history.

I agree with the proposal to extend compensation to failures in non-life businesses. It would be invidious to discriminate between clients on the basis of life and non-life businesses. Unfortunately not all companies are so kind when dealing with agents. I know it does not come within the ambit of this Bill but there should be recourse for agents who have conducted business with non-life companies, particularly over a period of time, and whose agencies have been cancelled without due reason in some instances.

I welcome the protection given to smaller investors in particular and I note that professional investors and financial institutions will be excluded. I was puzzled when I saw that professional investors were included. I conjured up an image of the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, at the races and him being described as an astute professional investor. I will discuss that point further on Committee Stage.

There were not many people at the races in Tramore last night.

It is logical that the Central Bank is the supervisory authority given that it is already responsible for banks, building societies, stock brokers and investment firms. The day to day policing and selection of firms for inspections will be important. The strict and proper maintenance of clients' accounts is vital. I often wonder how so many things have gone awry in individual cases in the past given the supervisory role of the Central Bank in the day to day operation of firms. I wish the Central Bank well in its supervisory role. The mechanics of the day to day policing will be an important element in this regard.

The Bill provides for the establishment of the Investor Compensation Company. I note that membership will be drawn equally from the industry and from consumer interests and that the Governor of the Central Bank will appoint the chairperson and deputy chairperson. I am slightly confused about this because the explanatory memorandum states that the Governor will have one appointment, but the Minister seemed to suggest that he will appoint the chairperson and deputy chairperson. Perhaps he could clarify that in his reply. I note the Minister will appoint members to the board with the approval of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. However, the number of appointments is not specified. How will a decision be made on the number of appointments? Perhaps the Minister might also clarify that.

All investment firms will be obliged to contribute to the compensation fund but no decision has been made on how much or on what basis each firm will contribute. The company must make that decision. Perhaps on Committee Stage we could discuss the distinction which must be made between producers, agents and brokers and how much each company will contribute annually to the fund. An opt-out is allowed for accountancy bodies on the basis that they supervise their members in cases where services are incidental to their practices. I am sure they have nice little earners regardless of the incidentality. It is important any arrangements as regards accountancy bodies and solicitors are subject to the approval of the Central Bank. Importantly, the bank will have to approve the number of funds set up by the company. Will the bank have a say as regards the company's decisions on contributions from the investment firms?

The Minister mentioned restricted intermediaries. Are these the people we commonly regard as tied agents? The Minister said these people will be limited to dealing in unit trusts. Does he not mean the wider scope of managed funds? I am somewhat confused and it is a matter which I would like him to address further in his response. In the case of tied agents dealing with one product producer only — where somebody in the life business, pensions or investment, is selling the products of one company only — it is proper that the parent company is solely responsible, particularly where there is a written appointment. Obviously, that would be the case if the person is a tied agent for that business.

The amendments to the Investment Intermediaries and Stock Exchange Acts contained in the Bill are worthwhile coming as they do from recommendations made by the Select Committee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy, which examined the regulation of investment intermediaries following the collapse of the Taylor group of investment companies. It is accepted that these are tightening up measures in the light of the experience gained in implementing the Investment Intermediaries Act and are, therefore, worthwhile. Overall, the Bill is welcome as further necessary consumer protection legislation. We all accept Ireland compares well in its regulation of the financial services sector despite the few spectacular failures we witnessed in recent years. The Bill is a further welcome measure of comfort to investors should an intermediary defraud them. I wish the Minister well in piloting this Bill speedily through both Houses. I will leave anything else I have to say until Committee Stage.

I welcome the Minister and compliment him on this important consumer protection legislation. This is welcome legislation which offers protection to small investors and it is not only appropriate but is possibly overdue, as has been said. The four main provisions of the Bill are clear, necessary and, to some extent, simple. It provides for compensation for clients of investment and insurance intermediaries where the intermediary is unable to return money or investment instruments belonging to the client. In the past we have seen the fall-out where intermediaries have been unable to provide compensation. The amount of compensation will be the lesser of 20,000 ECUs, about £15,000, or 90 per cent of the sum lost.

The third provision implements the EU Investor Compensation Directive. The second and third provisions are interlinked. This country has an excellent record of implementing EU directives. We often hear that, to some extent, the EU imposes much on this country and that sometimes we are too willing to implement directives. On balance, however, EU directives are in the interests of the consumer and the citizens of Europe and, in most cases, I welcome such directives.

The fourth provision includes a number of amendments to the Investment Intermediaries and the Stock Exchanges Acts. Obviously, it is vitally important we dovetail what we are now enacting into existing legislation. The Investor Compensation Bill, 1998, provides for the compensation of clients of investment and insurance intermediaries where the intermediary is unable to return money or investment instruments belonging to the client. The amount of compensation is 20,000 ECUs, about £15,000, or 90 per cent of the sum lost, the amount that must be put in place under EU Investor Compensation Directives which this Bill implements.

The Minister consulted widely with the financial services industry and consumer interests when preparing this vitally important Bill. Recently, we debated irregularities in the clearing banks and some of us complained about what we considered to be the supervisory role of the Central Bank. I have been critical of the limited supervision by the Central Bank at committees and in the House. It appeared the Central Bank did not have any interest in the account holder, a person other than a shareholder who has dealings with a bank, or that aspect of banking. The clearing banks cannot operate if they do not have an interest. The brief of the Central Bank, which is the licensing authority, should extend a little further than protecting the shareholder. I made that clear in a number of recent statements in this House and at committees. This legislation will be overseen by the Central Bank.

This Bill means the client will be able to claim compensation if the intermediary is unable to return money or investment instruments belonging to them. The Minister is going beyond the requirements of the Investment Compensation Directive which will apply only to investment firms such as stock brokers and discretionary investment managers. I compliment him on that important initiative.

The Minister also included insurance agents and brokers in investment compensation because a considerable amount of investment business is done through the single premium life insurance products. A large number of intermediaries do both investment and insurance business. It would be wrong for some and not other clients to be compensated if an intermediary, doing both investment and insurance business, failed. The Bill does not propose to limit compensation to the life insurance business and it will also be payable in respect of non-life insurance business. It would be invidious to discriminate between clients on the basis of life and non-life business. That is an important and welcome distinction in the legislation.

The Bill limits entitlement to compensation to private investors and small companies. Professional investors and financial institutions, for example, will not be entitled to claim compensation. The intention is to concentrate resources on protecting the small investor. This is the kernel of the Bill and I compliment the Minister of State for bringing forward legislation to protect small investors.

I have done some research and have looked at some recent headlines dealing with what happened to small investors. One headline in 1996 read: "Inquiry focuses on funds handled by the Taylor group". In that report we saw investigations into separate accounts to the value of almost £1 million. According to another headline in October 1996 it was established that at least £2.5 million was missing. In November 1996 the same company was involved when it was reported that investors were out of pocket by £2.52 million. The report stated that all unsecured creditors were likely to receive a small fraction of what they were owed. The company's estimated deficiency was £270,000.

Another headline in August 1996 stated that the Society of St. Vincent de Paul lost £185,000 it had invested with the same group. This was money that had been earmarked for an indoor play centre in a home which the society uses for summer holidays for less well off children from the greater Dublin area, yet there was no protection. I do not have to overemphasise the necessity for this legislation and one might say that in some cases it was overdue.

Another headline at the time stated "Liquidator to pursue Mr. Taylor and his wife". In that situation people were trying to get some pence from the pounds they had invested. Another headline in December 1996 stated that a court had appointed a liquidator to the same firm. The report stated:

The High Court today was told that almost £750,000 had been misappropriated by the Taylor associated financial services. Counsel for the liquidator said that the investigation by the liquidator [I think Mr. McSweeney was his name] had found that approximately £704,183 had been directly misappropriated from the company, and approximately £40,497 had been misappropriated on encashment.

This is the type of activity we have had to deal with up to now. It brought the whole area of investment companies into disrepute particularly where small investors were trying to advance themselves by investing their money. These are the obstacles, dangers and pitfalls they had to deal with.

Earlier this year there was a US hearing of ill-fated investments concerning a 13-year RUC investigation into the collapse of an international investment company registered in Gibraltar and run by a Greek-born financier, Mr. Ross. This is what undermines people who intend to invest. In April 1998 it was reported that the RUC sought the extradition of the financier and the US court ordered his extradition at a later stage.

To some extent we have a history of people in this country losing their savings due to the collapse of investment companies. When that happens we have an obligation to protect small investors. The Minister of State has not been idle in dealing with this matter. He has come forward with proposals and the necessary legislation and he is to be complimented for doing so.

The Central Bank will be the supervisory authority for investor compensation. The Central Bank is already the supervisory authority for banks, buildings societies, stockbrokers and investment business firms. I have already referred to this point in recent debates and I felt that authority was to some extent one sided and only looked after shareholders. When the full report of investigations into recent bank scandals is available I hope that if amending legislation is required, the Minister of State will contemplate it. We need to have confidence in banking, including the financial institutions, insurance companies and all financial dealings in this State and on a European basis.

Some organisational structures will be required to oversee and administer investor compensation. The Bill provides for the establishment of an investor compensation company limited by guarantee and I welcome that. Its purpose will be to ensure that satisfactory investor compensation arrangements are in place. The board of the company will have equal members or directors representing the financial services industry and consumer interests.

The Minister of State has taken a major step forward as regards that matter. So often in the past, when legislation was being enacted, the establishment was protected but that is not the case here. In fact, the Minister of State has given equal opportunity and status to both the financial service industry and consumer interests. The latter interests are so important.

I must compliment the Director of Consumer Affairs, Mr. Fagan. He is an outstanding public servant in the way he has dealt with many of the issues he has been confronted with in recent times. He has the ability to see that even further authority should be granted to him in certain situations. I hope that in future the Government will give whatever extra powers are needed in the interests of consumer affairs to that highly respected and highly motivated public servant. I have no hesitation in complimenting him in the House.

I understand that the appointment of the board will be the responsibility of the Minister for Finance with the agreement of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. This is a twofold situation because there is an interlinking between both Departments in this area. I am pleased that will be the case and I welcome it. The Central Bank will appoint the chairperson and the deputy chairperson. That is the way it should happen.

The company will maintain compensation funds and all investment firms will be obliged to contribute to those funds, with the exception of the accountancy industry. The importance of this legislation is that it does not represent a cost to the Exchequer. So often people call for legislation to deal with some matter but the citizen is left to pick up the tab. However, I do not think citizens should pick up the tab in respect of the financial services industry. To some extent, charges will be passed down to those who are directly involved in that industry, but there should not be a general charge on the Exchequer or the taxpayers. I am pleased that the Minister of State has excluded that possibility.

In the Minister of State's reply to Second Stage, he might elaborate further on the fact that the accountancy industry is excluded. I do not fully understand the relevance of what is intended by that but there must be some good reason for it. In addition to maintaining the compensation fund, the company will have two other important roles. It will decide on the number of different compensations funds which will exist, subject to the approval of the Central Bank, and it will decide on the size of contributions investment firms will have to pay. I expect some mechanism will be put in place to achieve that; will it be carried out by order or will the company itself set limits? Will the Minister have any direct input in this? It is important to note that no charge will be levied on the Exchequer and that the industry itself will bear the costs.

This Bill is a major piece of consumer protection legislation. Ireland's regulatory environment for financial services compares well with the highest international standards in this area. I have outlined some serious cases in order to highlight the need for legislation of this kind and to ensure that such situations do not arise in the future. Ireland now boasts an investment compensation regime which ensures investors have the comfort of knowing they will not lose everything if an intermediary defrauds them. This legislation will be welcomed by small investors throughout the country and I commend it to the House.

I welcome the Bill, which is an important piece of consumer protection legislation. Great distress has been caused to small investors in the kind of cases outlined by Senator Finneran.

It is important that when the Bill is being publicised, its provisions should not be overly hyped as we are only really introducing the minimum amount of compensation which the European directive obliges us to. Directive 97/9 on investment and competition schemes, outlined in the Third Schedule, states that the harmonised minimum level of compensation shall be 20,000 ECUs for each investor.

I presume that most of those who invest in intermediaries rather than parent companies do not do so for avaricious reasons but because they have very little knowledge of financial transactions. It would be very unfortunate if the passing of this Bill somehow conveyed the idea that if one's money was invested through an intermediary, it was completely protected. People must still be extremely careful about whom they invest with. Senator Finneran referred to the Taylor debacle and the Society of the St. Vincent de Paul's investment of £185,000. Under this legislation, only 9 per cent of that investment would have been recouped. Investors should be made aware that only small amounts of money are being guaranteed under this legislation. I recall a case where people invested money from the sale of one house with an intermediary prior to purchasing another and lost it all. It is very important that the provisions of the Bill are widely publicised and that people are made aware they will only recoup quite a small sum in regard to investments of £100,000 or more. It is a pity this legislation was not introduced at the same time as the Investment Intermediaries Act in 1995 but it is welcome at this stage.

It is unfortunate that the so-called product producers, the title accorded to major financial institutions, are not required to keep a closer watch on their intermediaries or are not required to vet their integrity prior to issuing them with written permission to sell their products. Large financial institutions should be obliged to regulate those working as agents on their behalf and should not be allowed to let them loose on the market place with very little supervision. I would have a great deal of sympathy for any investor who, for example, invested a sum of £100,000, made the cheque out to the major product producer, felt it was merely passing through the agent's hands and subsequently discovered they were only covered for a sum of £15,000. Senator Coghlan made a good point when he said that if a product producer was only dealing with one intermediary, the product producer should have greater liability for the actions of that intermediary. Would it be possible to amend the Bill to confer greater liability on product producers? I would feel quite protected if I made out a cheque to a major financial institution.

I fully understand the necessity to impose a ceiling on the amount of compensation which can be paid but it is important that people are warned from the outset that they will only be able to recoup a percentage of their investment and that this is the case even if the cheque is made out to a major financial institution.

I welcome the fact that new legislation is being introduced in regard to insurance intermediaries who seem to have operated in a most unregulated manner for some time and I also welcome the fact that insurance intermediaries are covered by this Bill to some extent. I raised my concerns about the independence of the Office of the Insurance Ombudsman and the fact that it seemed to have little control over insurance intermediaries on a previous occasion.

I am not quite clear about the role which the Director of Consumer Affairs will play as I did not think he would have any when I read the Bill. The Director is to be complimented on doing an excellent job and I hope he will continue to prosper in his role. I have never been able to understand why the Director of Consumer Affairs is attached to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment which I would almost regard as being the antithesis of the consumer. It might be better if Ireland followed the model which operates in other countries where those in charge of consumer affairs are attached to a Department such as the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs.

The Consumers' Association of Ireland also does a good job on behalf of Irish consumers. The association receives no financial support whatsoever from the Government and it would be helpful if some funding could be provided to it. Consumer affairs are enormously important. A number of major financial institutions have wielded a great deal of power in this country for a long time and anything which can be done to protect their consumers is to be welcomed.

It is important that any intermediary which is supposed to arbitrate on behalf of consumers involved with large insurance companies or banks be independent. Consumers' interests are to the fore in this Bill because the Minister said that half of the directors of the company will be consumers. I welcome that. How will investors know which intermediaries are involved? Will there be a brand name so that people will know they are participating in the scheme or will people still be in a position to trade even if they are not participating?

I was glad to see in the Bill that the liquidator will have to go to the High Court before costs can taken from the clients' funds. There were reports detailing how the liquidators' costs rose enormously and a great deal of clients' funds were taken in some recent liquidations.

Senator Finneran mentioned the Central Bank. The Central Bank has more power than it would appear. I thought they were in control of everything, yet when it comes to the crunch the Central Bank seems to be able to walk away from the situation.

In the course of the Bill numerous regulatory bodies are mentioned, for solicitors, stock exchanges, insurance intermediaries. Has anyone thought that we might have a single regulatory body? It could even involve the Central Bank. I am not a financial expert so perhaps there are reasons why we should not have this, but it would mean that in the event of a problem we would have a single focus at which we could look rather than going to all these different bodies regulating various interests. Is it not possible to have one financial regulatory body so we could look toward that if there was a problem with any of these subsidiary groupings?

The Minister said he hoped that this Bill would not have to be used. I agree that with human nature as it is, that is a forlorn hope. We are likely to have to use the facilities of this Bill all too frequently. I welcome the Bill and look forward to discussing it on Committee Stage.

The Investor Compensation Bill sets out to do four things. It provides for the compensation of clients of various financial institutions which provide investment services to customers; it sets out the amount of compensation which may be paid; it implements the EU Investor Compensation Directive and it provides for amendments to a number of other Acts.

While this Bill is of a technical nature, it marks a major step in the development of the regulatory framework for the financial sector in this State. It is an essential step in the process which will allow Ireland to continue to grow and develop in global economic terms.

In national terms, Irish culture is changing. Not long ago many people would have shied away from holding shares. The perception was that shares were for the rich or were owned by professional bankers, doctors and solicitors. It is not so now. Since the flotation of the Irish Permanent Building Society and the Norwich Union Insurance Company many ordinary people have joined this group which was previously perceived as elitist. We look forward now to the privatisation of Telecom Éireann and the First National Building Society. These new stock issues will create another large group of new shareholders and investors.

To support my view of the changing culture of Irish investors, I noticed the publication by a major financial institution of a new book aimed at the ordinary investor with as little as £3,000 to invest. Investors in this category rely on the Government and State to protect them by providing an adequate regulatory framework. This framework will give them the confidence to make use of their hard earned savings in a profitable way. The days when a small or medium sized investor can let his or her money sit in a deposit account and enjoy large growth of the funds are over. To make money on investments now, investors will be faced with decisions about where, how much and how long to invest. When faced with these decisions many people feel inferior to the investors giving them advice. They feel uncomfortable when the people giving the advice start to talk about shares and equities, it is not their everyday language. They do not question too deeply, trusting these important people rather than upsetting them by asking questions. Irish investors are entitled to whatever protection the State can give them.

As the Minister stated, the Government takes the view that individual investors may not be equipped with the necessary knowledge to appreciate the risks involved and may make decisions based on glossy, inappropriate brochures. It is easy to say with hindsight that anyone who believed those promises was foolish. Perhaps it was foolish, but the fools were trusting. This Government is committed to providing a framework which allows ordinary people the confidence and security of knowing there is a system of investor compensation.

This system will help to reduce the risk that the failure of a single investment firm will trigger a wider loss of confidence in the rest of the financial sector. We can see how volatile this confidence is when something goes wrong in that sector, as instanced by the allegations in the banking sector.

This Bill implements the EU Investor Compensation Directive. During the recent debate on the Amsterdam Treaty many people questioned the benefit of EU directives. This directive ensures that all investment firms which have a licence to sell their services throughout the EU will be covered by minimum compensation arrangements. An investor may, therefore, invest his or her money with an investment company anywhere in the EU in the security that compensation arrangements are in place to safeguard the funds involved.

This Government has taken the opportunity while introducing the legislation to implement this directive to put in place a fully comprehensive system of compensation for the entire investment intermediary sector, including insurance intermediaries. The Bill sets out the amount of money which may be paid in compensation — 20,000 ECU or 90 per cent of the amount lost, whichever is the lesser. This is a fair amount for both parties. As the purpose of this legislation is to protect the small investor, it is appropriate that compensation is generally limited to private investors and small companies. The definition of a small company is clearly laid out and I commend the Minister and his officials on this clarity.

The Bill allows for the setting up of a company called the Investor Compensation Company. This company will be established by the Central Bank and is similar in concept to bonded travel companies and to the insurance fund which is in place to compensate drivers whose vehicles are damaged or who are injured by uninsured drivers. Many people have been able to enjoy their holidays abroad even though the travel company with whom they booked had gone into liquidation. Many other people have been able to receive appropriate compensation through the insurance fund when they have suffered at the hands of uninsured drivers.

Earlier, my colleague, Senator Finneran, mentioned many cases in which investors lost considerable sums through the appalling and fraudulent behaviour of unscrupulous individuals. From now on compensation will be payable where Mrs. Murphy, a client of Joe Bloggs Ltd., an investment company, is unable to obtain the return of her money from Joe Bloggs Ltd. The procedure is simple and clear. First, the Central Bank will determine whether or not Joe Bloggs Ltd. can replace the money invested. Second, it will invite applications from other clients, claims will be verified and then, within three months or a possible extended six months, the company must pay compensation. From where will this money come? Not from the taxpayer, we are happy to say. This money will be paid in the first instance by contributions from the investment firms. There are no funding implications for the Exchequer.

As has been stated already, this is a fine piece of consumer protection legislation. The Government and the Minister have acted in a proactive and decisive manner in putting forward this legislation. I commend him and give this Bill my full support. We have a regulatory environment for the financial services sector which bears comparison with the highest standards internationally. We will now have an investor compensation regime which ensures that investors have the comfort of knowing that they will not lose everything if an intermediary defrauds on them.

Mr. Cregan

I welcome the Bill, and the Minister is welcome to the House.

I note with interest that at long last consideration is being given to the small investor. However, it must be said also that for far too long no recognition was given to investors generally by people who were taking their money. These people were unscrupulous.

I want to make a few points about the way in which we are going about this matter of consumer compensation. First and foremost, the taxpayer will not pay for this and that is only right and proper. However, the relevant committee and the nominees of this company must be asked how they will assess how much must be paid by each investor? Who will pay to build up the fund? Obviously, it will be the investors. In reply to Second Stage, will the Minister state if all the people who are involved with investment companies will pay for this? I cannot see the investor paying for it alone. What percentage of people in Ireland are investing directly with investors in stocks and shares or with other financial institutions?

I have been involved with financial institutions for a long time one way or another as a small business person and I see how they operate. Recently we saw the way banks can operate and the authority the Government has to question the way banks can implement their charges. There was a serious question mark over particular banks in the past few months. It did not create a happy atmosphere among people who have had long time involvement with banks.

Anybody investing in Ireland or the EU generally will be covered under this legislation up to 90 per cent of a loss of a certain amount. However, as Senator Henry stated, we would not want to give the impression that one is covered totally and I am not saying one should be covered for the full amount.

Who are the watchdogs? There is an impression that the Central Bank has dominance over all the banks and makes sure the financial institutions work well; but over the past few months the Governor of the Central Bank did not give the impression that the Central Bank was able to answer for what was happening in the financial institutions. Is the Central Bank dominant? Is it the watchdog? The Governor gave the impression to us that the Central Bank could not dictate.

What type of structure will we set up, particularly under section 17, which relates to the nomination of the members of the company? We would want to be careful about this. The Bill states that the Central Bank must nominate the chairman and the vice-chairman. Why? Are we really saying that the Central Bank was that good on previous occasions in regard to what was happening in the banks? Are we saying that there was a good watchdog in place in regard to what was happening to the customer, the person who was paying the piper? I do not think so.

We certainly are not doing ourselves any credit here. I am not putting the blame on one person or another, but we are in a situation where we cannot put the blame on any individual or group. Nobody is resigning, that is my point. I remember that nobody resigned when there was a problem with a section of AIB some years ago and it cost the State about £250 million. I think we are still paying from it in tax. Nobody resigned at that time.

I will not stand up and agree with everything. Who will be the real watchdogs? I would appreciate it if we, the people, were involved in the company rather than the Governor of the Central Bank. I do not know who is the Governor and I do not want to, but I expected more of the Central Bank in regard to the problems in the banks in the past few months and we did not get it. The general impression among the public is that there is and was no watchdog here. We deserve better than that.

This Bill will protect the investor, in particular the small investor. We are protecting them because of an EU directive, is that not the case? We must implement it. But are we really putting in place a proper system of supervision?

I am conscious of the rate of interest in our small society. Why would I not be? Like many others, I paid high interest rates through the banks for many a day? The financial institutions in Ireland do exceptionally well in comparison to the number of people who are investing and I congratulate them. Perhaps they are doing exceptionally well because there is no proper watchdog for the person who is paying the few bob. Overcharging in banks went on for far too long.

The economy is buoyant. Interest rates are dropping. The ordinary person like me is performing better because interest rates are lower. There was a time when we were paying between 21 per cent and 23 per cent for money. Was there a watchdog at that time to ask why we were paying so much? The only reason for the buoyant economy is the fact that Ireland is joining the euro. At the same time that this is happening, interest rates are low in Europe generally. I welcome the further drop in interest rates of between 2 per cent and 2.5 per cent before this year is out, but the banks would not forecast that unless they were getting the impression that banks from other countries will be competing against them. That is why I ask is it wise that the chairman and vice-chairman of the Investor Compensation Company should be nominated by the Central Bank? Should financial people be involved at all in this company? Would it not be better if the Ministers for Finance or Enterprise, Trade and Employment stated that they wished to appoint people who were not involved in finance and who would take a different view? People involved in finance will always protect others involved in finance, just as someone in the GAA will protect another person in that organisation. It would be better if those involved had no association with the Central Bank or any other bank. Look at how well credit unions work. Who are these organisations run by? They are not run by financial wizards but by ordinary people who give a fantastic service, no thanks to the banks.

I am not suggesting that all banks are the same. However, when the chips are down they look after themselves. There is no long term examination taking place. Some time ago Senator Lanigan spoke about the performance of pension funds. There is serious concern as to whether pension schemes people invested in over the years are giving a proper return. Who is questioning this? Will this company do so? Is there any watchdog or association involved with the banks, the Government or on behalf of the people watching the returns on investments? No, we allow these people to do what they like when they like. No one is answerable. The Central Bank does not and never did want to take an interest in this issue and never asks any questions.

Local post offices and State banks offer a 40 per cent return over five years. No insurance company will give such a commitment. Why are we not promoting our own institutions more? We do not need a watchdog over the post office as it is a local office in any town and village. People ask whether their money is better off in a credit union or some other financial institution. Where are the watchdogs? Will this company be such a watchdog? No, it will only look after the investors.

I am not suggesting that investors should not be covered. However, we are all aware of how stocks and shares are performing. I am glad to see Irish companies doing so well and offering very good returns, none more so than the banks. AIB shares have risen from £6 to £14 in 18 months. Bank of Ireland has gone from £9 to £17 in 14 months. That is some profit and some investment. The post office will not offer such a profit. However, who can buy shares in the banks? Can the ordinary person buy shares in the banks or in companies such as Greencore or Kerrygold? I am not saying that people cannot get these shares. However, the impression is that they are very difficult to buy. Do certain financial institutions, organisations and people have sole access to these shares? Is there an opportunity for the ordinary person to buy them? Will the Investor Compensation Company ensure that the ordinary person is covered as regards investments? Will they get the same opportunity as the financial institutions?

The Central Bank has not proven anything to me. At times I am baffled as to what it does. It rightly tells us that we need to watch our inflation rate and consumer price index. It also rightly expresses concern when there is overspending. It can tell Governments when to tighten spending but it cannot tells us when banks are doing things we do not know about. The Central Bank is involved with all the banks and we should not be giving it even more authority.

I am not worried because the Minister will be on top of the situation. However, what of the funds invested with Mr. Taylor or Finbar Ross who is being prosecuted in America? He comes from my area of Cork. I know his family but I did not know him. The protection offered to an ordinary person is very questionable when one considers what someone like that can do. How can the Minister or we as Members of this House tell people they should invest? I want to see people investing in our companies. I want them to have the opportunity to assist companies such as Jurys and other hotels move forward. Kerrygold is a perfect example of what can happen. Look at what creameries have done for farmers, investors and shareholders. These companies better these people and their families and I welcome that.

The Minister of State should appoint people to this company who are not associated with finance. Financial people can tie others up in knots and give the impression that they are right. They are not always right. They are there for their own benefit. Look at the profits of the banks. They are not going to tell people how to go about it. We should use banks as an example and do the same for ourselves. We should be promoting our post offices and credit unions and giving people an opportunity to invest locally so that they can make their own profits.

I welcome this Bill. It is necessary to protect investors and to provide a framework of support from institutions which invest their moneys in the best interests of clients and companies. This Bill sets out a fundamental structure within the investment sector under the control of the Central Bank. The Investor Compensation Company will provide funding to support investors who incur loses up to about £15,000.

I am involved in investments and I welcome the thrust and purpose of the Bill. However, there is a downside to the Bill. I concur with much of Senator Cregan's comments on the management of the company. In general, financial institutions such as banks and insurance companies have served the country well. However, their main priority is their own interest and the profits and success of their shareholders. Rather than the State having to support this new company, there should be a strong consumer element in the appointment of the board to protect consumers and the public interest.

The Minister of State has made the argument that those who invest in financial businesses should do so at their own risk. However, from what I have seen in financial institutions, there is as I said, a downside to this Bill. Insurance companies are abandoning many of their agencies in the country because of all the legislation and regulations covering investment and bonding. Many people who have served these companies are being made redundant. Other investment companies and agencies will suffer in the long-term because of these regulations which contract rather than expand the market. People in small towns will suffer as a result of this additional regulation. While it serves the purpose of aiding the investor, something we are duty bound to do, there will be a downside in the form of a substantial curtailment in the services provided in many small towns and villages.

I believe that the companies which appoint as agents people who do wrong in the financial services sector should be responsible for compensating the people affected by their actions. Financial houses or insurance intermediaries which appoint people who breach the trust placed in them should bear the brunt of compensation. Ordinary taxpayers or investors should not be held liable; it is the responsibility of those who appoint the people. Regulation of the area of granting agencies has been very loose in the past ten years. In a comparison with motor insurance, all motorists bear the cost of bad drivers who are still driving despite having been involved in serious accidents costing hundreds of thousands of pounds. Although people may have been killed or been put off the road, these people are still driving and no one seems to bear responsibility in the long-term. That is why I do not like the idea of everyone being responsible for other's actions. It is part of the exercise of placing responsibility on everyone for the misdemeanours of others who never seem to be responsible for their actions.

The Bill is necessary because it offers people compensation. However, if financial houses are placing people in positions of responsibility, there should be mechanisms to protect the public and ensure money is properly handled, invested and documented so that this method of compensation does not have to be used because of people's money being misused. I welcome the Bill in principle.

I thank Senators for their contributions. Senators obviously studied the matter in detail and I appreciate that. They understood the importance of the Bill and its central place in the package of financial services legislation in this country which compares well with best practice anywhere in the world. The Investor Compensation Bill is another addition to that range of legislation.

A number of points were made by Senators and I will try to deal with them as best I can and as they arose. Senator Coghlan was first to speak and made a number of points. I wish to confirm that the Governor of the Central Bank will appoint both the chairperson and the deputy chairperson of the board of the Investor Compensation Company. He also asked about the number of directors to be appointed to the company and he is correct that the number has not yet been decided. However, it is envisaged that there would not be a large number. We have not specified a number because it may be necessary to appoint additional directors in future and we wish to leave our options open. Senator Cregan had much to say on this area at the conclusion of his contribution and I listened with interest to what he had to say because there was much sense in it. Much of it is not concerned specifically with this Bill but there was much to it as a general dissertation on people's questions.

With regard to the board, there is an emphasis in the Bill that the board will be strongly weighted in favour of the consumer. That is an important point and is fundamental in the context of this legislation, unlike other Bills. This legislation has arisen out of a great deal of discussion with a broad range of parties involved in this area. It is the small investor and not the big institutions with whom we are concerned in the context of this legislation and that is why the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Director of Consumer Affairs have roles.

A question was asked about how the level of contributions to be made by investment companies can be set down in legislation. That is not specified in the Bill for good reasons. It will be up to the board of the Investor Compensation Company to decide because it would not be satisfactory to try to set down in legislation a formula for contributions. The amount to be collected may vary from year to year. If large amounts in compensation were paid out in one year, it might be necessary to increase the levy the next year to rebuild reserves.

There may not be one simple formula which can be applied to all investment firms because there are different forms of operations. Since compensation will only be paid to private investors in small companies, the number of private clients on an investment firm's books should give a good estimate of the exposure the firm represents for the compensation fund. The contribution to the fund would therefore be the number of eligible investors multiplied by an appropriate number of pounds.

However, it may be that that will not give a good measure for all firms. It may apply to some but it may not be possible to do it for others. In addition, it may be desirable to allow for exceptions as they emerge. An example would be a new firm or one which intends to expand rapidly into a new market. Some other measure would have to be used for them. On the other hand, it may turn out to be unduly complicated to reckon the number of private clients for each firm. It might be more cost effective to use other measures, such as the number of representatives employed by a firm or its overall turnover. A range of options are available and I am confident the Investor Compensation Company will be able to examine these issues and devise a formula capable of dealing with the questions raised and with the setting of the level of compensation. It was for those reasons that it was not considered appropriate to specify such a formula in the Bill.

Product producers will not be required to make contributions to investor compensation funds maintained by the Investor Compensation Company. However, if a restricted intermediary defaults, the product producer which gave written appointments to that intermediary will have to reimburse the company for compensation payable to investors where it can be proved that the money lost was given to the intermediary to be transmitted to an identifiable product producer.

Senator Coghlan asked if restricted intermediaries were the same as tied agents. A restricted intermediary is allowed to do only certain types of investment business. He or she may not handle cash, except when he or she has a written appointment as a deposit agent and he or she may only do business with financial institutions which give him or her a written appointment.

Senator Finneran mentioned the relationship between the Central Bank and the bank's customers. The bank's primary role, as I said in a earlier debate, is a prudential one concerned with the integrity of the financial system. However, as Senators will be aware, a working group established by the Minister for Finance and chaired by an officer of the Department of Finance is examining the question of the relationship between banks and consumers and the roles of both the Central Bank and the Director of Consumer Affairs in this area both in law and in practice. This also relates to some of the questions asked by Senator Cregan. The Director of Consumer Affairs is also involved with this group, which met no later than this morning. Its report will be available within the next few weeks. Arising out of other issues, this process has been urgently set in train.

I confirm to Senators Coghlan and Finneran and perhaps others that the accountancy bodies must have the approval of the Central Bank for any investor compensation they put in place. I would not agree that there is an opt-out for accountancy bodies or that accountants are excluded from investor compensation. They certainly are not. Any compensation scheme for accountants will have to pay compensation to clients of accountants in exactly the same way as the Investor Compensation Company.

Some Members commented on the amount of compensation provided for under the Bill. It would, of course, be possible to put in place compensation arrangements which would act as a complete safety net for all investors ensuring that all investors would be fully compensated in all cases where they lost out in dealings with an intermediary. However, not only would such an approach be likely to be extremely costly, it would also remove any incentive for an investor to act responsibly in relation to investment decisions. A balance needs to be struck between the principle of caveat emptor, which I spoke about earlier, and the need to protect those investors who are least well placed to bear losses and to encourage investors, generally, to approach their investment decisions very carefully. As I have already said, the Government believes the present Bill strikes the appropriate balance between the two. Our intention should be to protect the small investor. I can readily accept that there are people who are far from well off and far from being professional investors who will have more than £15,500 to invest — perhaps from redundancy payments or legacies — but experience in other countries suggests that about 80 per cent of claims for compensation are for less than £20,000. I stress that this refers to claims for compensation and not to the total amount of a person's investment. This would seem to suggest that investors do not necessarily lose everything when an intermediary defaults.

We must also be satisfied that the system of compensation we put in place has a reasonable chance of operating successfully. There is no question of the Exchequer funding investor compensation. Not only would that be wrong in principle — transferring tax revenue from the general population to those who have money to invest — it could also be in breach of European law relating to aids to industry. Under the Bill the cost of compensation will have to be borne by the financial services sector. In practice that will mean that some, at least, of the cost of compensation will be transferred back to investors because it will represent an additional cost for intermediaries in running their businesses. Therefore, we must be careful to ensure that the cost of compensation does not increase the underlying cost of investments unduly. Investor compensation is, in effect, a form of insurance protection. It is impossible to gauge at this stage what level of funding will be required and what level investors will be prepared to bear. Our objective must be to put in place a system of compensation that will work and that will have time to get established. The higher the level of compensation required by law the greater the likelihood that there will be problems in getting the schemes established.

We already provide for compensation of 20,000 ECU under the deposit guarantee regulations which implemented the EU Deposit Guarantee Directive. The Government has decided not to avail of a transitional provision available under the Investment Compensation Directive which allows compensation to be set at 15,000 ECU or 90 per cent of the amount lost until 1999. In other words, we are implementing the full directive, which I think is the correct approach.

In all these circumstances the Government is satisfied that the compensation levels provided for in the Bill are both prudent and adequate. In addition, while the amount in question effectively is the minimum prescribed in the EU directive, the coverage goes beyond what the directive requires. We are doing substantially more than implementing the bare directive. I appreciated the comments of many Senators in this regard.

Senator Henry mentioned the issue of a single regulator. This is an interesting concept. With the proposed transfer of responsibility for insurance intermediaries to the Central Bank we are coming very close to the Central Bank being just that. There is a committee examining this area and they may shed some light on this question.

Senators Henry, Finneran and others wondered if product producers should have more responsibility for the intermediaries they appoint. Under the Investment Intermediaries Act, product producers are obliged to check that the intermediaries to whom they give a written appointment comply with the terms of the Act. That obligation is being reinforced by section 59 of the Act which will make it an offence for a product producer to accept business from an intermediary unless he has given that intermediary a written appointment. In addition, product producers will have to fund any compensation paid to the clients of one of their intermediaries where it can be established that the money lost was intended for a particular product producer.

Senator Henry asked me to explain how investors will know intermediaries who are participating in the investor compensation scheme. The Senator will be glad to hear that the compensation provisions under the Bill will cover financial intermediaries generally, stock brokers, insurance agents and brokers, investment business firms, credit institutions doing investment business and accountants who provide any form of investment services on an incidental basis. The one exception is certain investment business firms in the International Financial Services Centre, which I referred to earlier, who are not subject to the compensation directive and who do not provide services to domestic investors.

I must add one thing. People will not be able to claim compensation if they give money to somebody who is not authorised by the Central Bank to provide investment services or to somebody who is not an insurance agent or a broker. There is an onus on any person making an investment to ensure the veracity of the company or individual with whom they are dealing. This is as it should be.

Senator Cregan raised a number of points. I have already made some reference to the Central Bank as a supervisory authority. May I add some observations? Section 8 designates the bank as the supervisory authority for investor compensation schemes and as the competent authority for the purposes of the EU Investor Compensation Directive. The bank is already the supervisory authority for all the entities covered by this legislation apart from insurance intermediaries. As I indicated earlier, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment recently announced that she is preparing legislation to make the bank the supervisory authority for insurance intermediaries. It is therefore logical that the bank, as the regulator for the majority of investment firms, should supervise investor compensation. More legislation will be introduced which will deal with previous dissatisfaction, or perceived dissatisfaction, because of certain issues. The committee will also conclude its review in the next few weeks.

Under the Investor Compensation Directive we must have a supervisory authority for investor compensation. That authority must be the one which is responsible for regulating investment firms subject to the directive, which in our case is the Central Bank.

There is no argument about the principle that whoever regulates investment firms should also supervise investor compensation. The regulator will be best placed to move against an investment firm which gets into trouble. There will be consumer representatives on the board. The Minister is keen that we get that mixture right from the beginning.

I hope I dealt with most of the points raised by Senators. There will be a further opportunity to discuss this Bill on Committee Stage. I thank Senators for their contributions.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 9 June 1998.
Sitting suspended at 5 p.m. and resumed at 6 p.m.
Top
Share