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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 15 Oct 1998

Vol. 156 No. 13

Order of Business.

The Order of Business is items 2 and 3. On item 2, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, contributions of spokespersons will not exceed 15 minutes and contributions of other Senators will not exceed ten minutes. Senators may share time. Item 3 will be taken from 2.30 p.m. to 4.00 p.m., with the contributions of each Senator not to exceed ten minutes. Item 2 will then resume if not previously concluded.

I have no difficulty with the Order of Business. However, I think ten minutes may be restrictive for some people — perhaps 15 minutes per speaker could be arranged. There are not many speakers, but those who are offering want 15 minutes if possible.

When will the Government publish the White Paper on Mental Illness and Mental Health? This is something which has been promised for a very long time and the Leader will remember that in the last Seanad, Senators Finneran, Henry and others asked about this on many occasions. The Government has been in office for a year. Will the Leader return to the House at an early date with some information as to when the White Paper will be published?

Will the Leader undertake to have Standing Orders changed so that we do not have a repetition of what happened in Private Members' time last night where a Minister took up almost half the allotted time? His speech took 50 minutes to deliver. It is unfair that speakers——

It was not that long.

If we had an interpreter we might have understood some of it. It is unfair that Members are confined to six or seven minutes and a Minister can take up a huge amount of time. I know extra time was given last night, but there should be a practice limiting the speeches of Ministers as well as Members and perhaps the Leader will examine the issue.

Standing Orders limit the speeches of Ministers to 15 minutes and the matter will be discussed at the next meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to see how best Standing Orders can be brought to the notice of the relevant Department.

The way it should be brought to their notice is by telling them when they have a minute remaining. We should not have to tell any Department. We order our business and, understandably, it creates a sense of dissatisfaction. There are occasions when a Minister could, with the agreement of the House, be allowed extended time, and the speaking time for other Members could be extended. It should not be the case that a Minister be allowed to take as much time as he or she would wish. I support Senator Manning's point about the extended time for speakers contributing to a debate on a Bill. There is no need to restrict this as the Leader intends and I would ask for this to be extended.

I spent much time during the summer looking at the inland waterways around Ireland. I am referring to item 9 on the Order Paper, the Shannon River Council Bill, in the names of Senators Taylor-Quinn, O'Meara and myself. For instance, the Upper Lough in Ardnacrusha is completely covered with zebra mussels. They are being taken off by the scoopful. Whatever the Leader was trying to convince us was happening is not happening. The waterways are threatened. In the last month the Minister issued an order to extend inland waterways down to the Lower Bridge in Limerick city. These matters should be discussed. I do not know how Limerick Corporation feel about losing control of the rivers.

This matter cannot be discussed in the House, Senator.

I stand corrected and apologise, a Chathaoirligh. I ask the Leader of the House to remind the Government of its policy on this issue before and after taking office. I also ask the Leader to arrange to have this matter debated in the House as soon as possible.

First, I support Senator O'Toole in relation to item No. 9. Naturally, all our waterways need to be running smoothly so that Senator O'Toole and others can enjoy their rambles in Érin on the waterways. Second, I want to refer to items 20 and 21 on the Order Paper in the names of Members of the Labour Party, myself and Independent Senators relating to the OECD report on literacy levels in Ireland of 25 per cent and the equally distressing First Report of the Joint Committee on Education and Science on Literacy Levels in Ireland which was published recently. I ask the Leader of the House to find out when we will have the Green Paper on Literacy and Adult Education.

Third, I want to refer to the request in this House yesterday for a debate on traffic and the carnage on the roads. I lend my voice to that request and ask the Leader to broaden the parameters of the debate to include how the Director of Public Prosecutions presents cases to the courts for prosecution in drunk driving cases and to look at the whole area of sentencing guidelines. There seems to be a major issue in relation to the question of carnage on the roads and how we deal with serious issues that come before the courts. We have seen the disparity in sentencing in relation to larceny, where one can get nine years for the theft of a handbag, and another can have their sentence quashed in cases of drunk driving which results in death. I ask for as wide a debate as possible on this issue.

Many Members of the House have an interest in the institution of Trinity College, both ancient and modern. I ask the Leader of the House to ensure that the Second Stage of the Trinity College Bill is taken as soon as is technically possible.

Senator Costello raised the matter I was about to raise. We should be mindful of the fact that the relevance of this House should be to respond to the concerns of the people. The inconsistency in sentencing policy at the moment is the topic of many radio programmes and press reports. I ask for the guidance of the Cathaoirleach on a forum or structure, without stepping on the toes of the independence of the Judiciary, to debate and discuss the great difficulty that exists at the moment as a result of the lack of consistency in sentencing policy.

I will come back to Senator Doyle on that matter.

I ask the Leader of the House to arrange a debate on the inland waterways issue referred to by Senator O'Toole. I agree that the matter of the Shannon is of great concern but I do not think the problem stops there. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on all the inland waterways, particularly the increasing level of pollution and deterioration of water quality. This is now a major issue. This House might have some views on this matter which would provide the Minister with an opportunity to legislate in this regard in the future.

I join with the Leader of the Opposition, Senator Manning, in calling for legislation regarding mental health. It is time this legislation was updated. I called for this when in Opposition. We are dealing with legislation which dates from 1945-6 and I believe it would be inappropriate to enter the new millennium with this type of legislation in place. The Minister should bring forward legislation or a White Paper on the issue in the near future.

I support the calls for a debate on the traffic situation, particularly in Dublin. Could the Leader arrange for the Minister for Public Enterprise to come in to the House to give a report on the progress of Luas because in the light of developing traffic difficulties the northsouth access is being put underground. As there is now considerable excess capacity in the economy we should now look at doing the whole job and putting the east-west access underground also. When the Minister took a very courageous decision she was attacked both inside and outside this House on the basis that this proposal would be longfingered. The Minister should give this House and the public an update on what has been happening.

I support Senator O'Toole's and Senator Norris's call for debate on the carnage and traffic problem on our roads. I would like to address another matter and have the Minister for Health and Children and the Minister for Education and Science come into the House and advise us what their Departments are doing regarding the alarming increase in the numbers of suicides. There has been a 50 per cent increase in suicides in the first three months of this year. More than 30 per cent of suicides are among young people between the ages of 15 and 24. This is an issue which affects everyone and very little is being done about it. I want to highlight the issue because I have had much contact with people during the summer period in relation to this matter. The same number of people are dying as a result of suicide as die as a result of carnage on our roads.

There have been many calls for a debate on the traffic and carnage on the roads. A debate on the National Roads Authority report was called for. If there was a full debate on this report, many of the issues associated with carnage on the roads could be dealt with.

With respect I suggest the Leader of the Opposition did not mean the disparaging remark he passed about a certain Minister earlier.

Of course, I did not.

He should withdraw it as it was uncalled for.

The Senator is sensitive.

Since legislation connected with universities has been mentioned, will Fine Gael indicate whether it will move item 5? Does the Government have any proposals regarding the university franchise, which most people accept is antiquated, unrepresentative and badly in need of reform?

I agree to amend to 15 minutes the time for contributions on item 2, as suggested by Senators Manning and O'Toole.

I wish to set the record the straight. The Minister of State for Agriculture and Food spoke for 37 minutes during the farming debate last night or 17 per cent of the time allotted. As he was about to make his contribution, news reached him from Brussels that there had been a new announcement regarding the farming community, which was welcomed by all, particularly hard pressed farmers who find themselves in a serious plight currently and were awaiting this announcement. Having taken that into account, I then sought permission from the House to extend the time of the debate by 30 minutes and I am grateful to Members for their understanding on this.

I take Senator Manning's point regarding the length of the contribution, but it was made in exceptional circumstances and I am sure all Members welcomed the breakthrough announced by the Minister for Agriculture and Food on the "Six One News", which was then relayed by the Minister of State at the end of his contribution.

Senators O'Toole, Bonner and Finneran called for a debate on inland waterways. Senator O'Toole asked for the up to date position in terms of the Government's intentions. The Bill is still progressing following the summer recess. As I stated previously, pilot schemes are underway in Clare and Roscommon. The Senator has a great deal of experience in this field and I take his remarks seriously. Therefore, I will arrange a debate at the earliest opportunity.

Senators Costello, Doyle, Norris, Finneran and Lanigan called for an urgent debate on the traffic problems and carnage on our roads and the NRA. I have decided to bring the debate forward to next Wednesday afternoon. It will be open ended and will continue after Private Members' time that evening. The times are to be agreed by the Whips.

Senator Costello referred to item 20 and I will come back to him on it. Senator Henry mentioned the Trinity College Bill and it will be taken as soon as possible. Senator Norris called on the Minister for Public Enterprise to come into the House to discuss the up to date situation on Luas. Senator Bonner asked for a debate on the rise in suicides and I agree to his request.

Order of Business agreed to.
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