The Order of Business is item 1 and item 14, motion 30. On item 1, Second Stage, contributions of spokespersons are not to exceed 20 minutes while other contributions are not to exceed 15 minutes. Members may share time. Item 14, motion 30, will be taken from 6 o'clock until 8 o'clock. Item 1 will resume thereafter if not previously concluded. Business will be interrupted from 1.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
We agree to the Order of Business. While I appreciate the first item is the Education (No. 2) Bill, I ask the Leader to provide time as a matter of urgency in the very near future to debate primary education and funding for national schools.
I fully support Senator Burke's call for a debate on primary education. Yesterday I raised two issues with the Leader and am disappointed I have not heard back from him. I asked for a debate on a progress report on the River Shannon scheme prior to dealing with the legislation. I also asked for a debate on literacy which could be taken with Senator Burke's call for a debate on primary education. There is a long-standing commitment on the part of the Leader to debate the issue which I ask him to discharge. I am sure the matter will be touched upon during discussion of the Education (No. 2) Bill. However, that legislation deals with a particular set of issues which are related but not quite the same.
I hoped that following our discussion last week on overseas development aid we might have had a suggestion from the Leader concerning a debate on the matter this week. The Labour Party would support an urgent debate on the matter so that it could impact on the relevant Estimate and the budget.
I also call for a debate on regionalisation as a matter of priority and in response to the issues raised yesterday. The case for the three recognised regions for Objective One status is being hampered by the political manoeuvring which the Government undertook yesterday and no strategy has been put in place to deal with poverty and disadvantage in other parts of the country. It is vital that the House has an opportunity to debate the Government's position before it is finally submitted to Brussels and I call on the Leader to organise a debate as a matter of extreme urgency.
Mr. Ryan
I move:
That item 14, motion 31, be inserted before item 1.
Item 14, motion 31, concerns overseas development aid and is in the name of all Opposition Senators. I ask that it be taken first this morning for a period of at least six hours. Before the Leader makes a nice ambiguous promise on the conclusion of the Order of Business I wish to say to him that I do not want statements but rather a motion on which Government Members will have to vote in favour of the current Government position of cutting back aid to the poorest people in the world.
I raise the matter of coastal erosion and the need to ask the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources to prepare a plan to secure funding to deal with the serious problems due to climatic conditions and coastal water levels. There is a danger to public and private property and it is time the Government prepared a planned case for funding from Europe.
Is it possible to have the Minister responsible for Bord Gais come to the Seanad? There are rumours arising out of discussions with the unions on the sale of that body. Can that be cleared up? I do not want to see more silver being sold off when there is no need for it.
Does the Leader know if Sinn Féin has given permission to the Irish team to play their international match tonight given their interference last week in Donegal Celtic's match? Is Sinn Féin only interested in matches in that part of the country?
That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
I call again for a debate on the anomalies in Objective One status. I cannot understand why County Limerick, given the unemployment black spots in the city, could be sidestepped given that it is a geographical extension of both Clare and Kerry. I call for an urgent debate on this matter.
I support Senator Ryan.
Is the Senator seconding the amendment?
Yes. I am happy to second it because it is important for the moral prestige of the country that we are not seen to cut back on aid to the poorest and most disadvantaged people. We have a very good record of moving toward the target, unlike many other European countries, but now we seem to be retreating. That is regrettable. I do not want to cause distress to the many decent people on the Government side who share my view, but if this kind of pressure can change the Government's mind, so be it. I honour the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, for her strong stance on this matter.
We will be supporting the amendment to the Order of Business. The matter is intrinsically important, but I have felt for a long time that we must organise our debates and motions to be relevant to the issues that concern people. If we cannot respond in a timeframe that makes sense we are making ourselves more irrelevant. The motion itself needs immediate debate, and for the relevance of the House I urge the Leader to accept the amendment to the Order of Business.
I also ask for a discussion with the Minister of State for Public Enterprise, Deputy Jacob, and perhaps a representative of British Nuclear Fuels Limited, on the nuclear programme for the west coast of the United Kingdom. We need such a debate so that all sides of the House can understand what the implications of their plans are for this country.
Regarding the proposed amendment to the Order of Business and the matter of overseas development aid, it is the Government's intention, as spelt out in its programme for Government, to move towards the target of 4.2 per cent of GDP as our contribution to overseas development aid.
The Government might not last that long.
Senator Dardis without interruption.
It is hardly surprising at a time of record growth in the economy that it is very difficult to maintain the figure at the level required to achieve that.
Mr. Ryan
It should be easier.
It should be easier with a surplus.
Senator Dardis on the Order of Business without interruption.
(Interruptions.)
Senator Dardis is worried about Deputy O'Donnell. What does she have to say?
I am happy to support my Minister if I am given a chance. I welcome the rotating leadership in Fine Gael. It is a very welcome development.
Egalitarianism at its best.
Order, please.
What is in the Estimates is one thing; what appears in the budget is something else. I am confident that Senators' wishes will be met when we consider the budget.
We will have to ask Deputy Healy-Rae.
It is important that we devote a full day's discussion to Objective One status. There is huge concern about this matter, particularly in the south-east region. When we have a debate on this matter, Deputy Healy-Rae should be invited in to hear everybody's views on it.
Is the Opposition that unconvincing?
Senators Burke and O'Toole called for a debate on primary education and adult literacy. I have given a commitment to this matter and will put time aside for it. Regarding the river Shannon scheme, the President of the European Commission, M. Jacques Santer, will be here tomorrow and the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, MP, will address a joint sitting of the Houses of the Oireachtas next week. The week after next we can have progress reports on the river Shannon programme and the debate on primary education and adult literacy.
Senators Ryan, Norris, Gallagher and Dardis discussed the proposed amendment to the Order of Business. Today's business was ordered in consultation with the Minister for Education and Science; it is an all day Second Stage debate on the comprehensive Education (No. 2) Bill. I have always done my utmost to facilitate all Senators' requests, but this proposal came at very short notice. I have no objection to a debate on overseas development, and I fully agree with the sentiments of Senators Ryan, Norris and Gallagher. If Senators leave this to another day I will have no difficulty in facilitating their request. I found out about it two minutes before the Order of Business and I cannot include it today. However, if Senators agree, I will put it on my priority list for a debate at the earliest possible opportunity. I assure the Senators who made this request——
Mr. Ryan
What about tomorrow?
——that I will discuss it with the leaders of the groups after this morning's sitting. I agree with Senator Dardis when he said it is part of the programme for Government and that it is the Government's intention to meet the 4.2 per cent target. As Senators said, this is a time of buoyancy and we should live up to our responsibilities. I ask the Senators who proposed this amendment to leave this matter to be discussed by the leaders of the various groups after the Order of Business. We will see how to facilitate their request as a matter of priority.
Senator Chambers called for a debate on a plan for funding to combat coastal erosion. I will pass the Senator's views on to the Minister. Senator Dino Cregan inquired about the sale of Bord Gais, and I will make inquiries today, if possible. Senators Jackman and Hayes called for a debate on regionalisation. This is very timely and I will put time aside for that. I look forward to Senators' contributions on this important topic. Senator Avril Doyle called for a debate on British Nuclear Fuels and a teasing out of issues with the Minister of State at the Department of Public Enterprise, Deputy Jacob, last week. I am sure this concerns all Senators and I will see if I can find time for this at the earliest opportunity.
Senator Ryan moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That item 14, motion 31, be inserted before item 1". Is the amendment being pressed?
Mr. Ryan
If the Leader is prepared to take the motion tomorrow morning, I will not press it.
The Leader has replied and there cannot be further interventions.
Amendment put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 16; Níl, 21.
Tá
- Burke, Paddy.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Cosgrave, Liam T.
- Costello, Joe.
- Cregan, Denis (Dino).
- Doyle, Avril.
- Gallagher, Pat.
- Hayes, Tom.
- Jackman, Mary.
- McDonagh, Jarlath.
- Norris, David.
- O'Dowd, Fergus.
- O'Meara, Kathleen.
- O'Toole, Joe.
- Ross, Shane.
- Ryan, Brendan.
Níl
- Bohan, Eddie.
- Bonner, Enda.
- Callanan, Peter.
- Cassidy, Donie.
- Chambers, Frank.
- Cox, Margaret.
- Cregan, John.
- Dardis, John.
- Farrell, Willie.
- Fitzgerald, Tom.
- Gibbons, Jim.
- Glynn, Camillus.
- Keogh, Helen.
- Kett, Tony.
- Kiely, Daniel.
- Kiely, Rory.
- Lanigan, Mick.
- Leonard, Ann.
- Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
- Ormonde, Ann.
- Quill, Máirín.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ryan and Norris; Níl, Senators T. Fitzgerald and Keogh.
Amendment declared lost.
Question, "That the Order of Business be agreed to", put and declared carried.