The Order of Business is items 1, 2 and 22, motion 32. Item 1, Second Stage to be taken today with contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of other Senators not to exceed ten minutes; item 2, Committee and Remaining Stages to be taken today; item 22, motion 32 to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. and business to resume thereafter if not already concluded.
Order of Business.
I am unhappy about the proposal to take all Stages of item 2 but I will ask Senator Coogan to inquire about that. I wish our negotiators well in Hillsborough and I hope progress will be made there today. It would be appropriate if, on the eve of the Good Friday Agreement, this phase of the business was completed successfully. It is important that our negotiators know they have the full support of both Houses in their endeavours.
Will the Leader arrange a debate some time in the next session on the need for a full public inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan car bombs of 25 years ago? A compelling case was made yesterday by Mr. Greg O'Neill on behalf of the victims' families. It would be appropriate for us to debate this matter in the House.
I wish to refer to the proposal to take the Committee and Final Stages of the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill tomorrow. Last week, the leaders of the Opposition groups asked the Leader to defer this Bill until after Easter for fairly compelling reasons – the Bill is very long, Second Stage was taken within a couple of days of its publication before a debate could really get under way and before many interested groups were aware it had been published. We did not have a good Second Stage debate in this House. It is now proposed to take a Bill of 65 sections, to which at least 40 amendments have been tabled, on Holy Thursday afternoon and evening.
This important Bill has the approval of all sides of the House but serious issues are raised in it. The Department went through its purgatory on the debate on the Universities Act, 1997, and I am sure it does not want a re-run of that but wants to progress this Bill as quickly as possible. We pride ourselves that we scrutinise legislation very well. At a time when a high level examination of the functions and relevance of this House is ongoing, it would be wrong if we rushed this Bill through. The Bill could be postponed until after Easter and we will offer every co-operation and sit extra days if required to ensure the Bill is given due care and scrutiny. As the protector of the interests of Members of this House and as someone who speaks for the House against civil servants and others who might want to rush legislation through, I appeal to the Leader to consider deferring the Bill.
I am more than a little concerned about the manner in which the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill is being rushed through. I do not believe it should be taken tomorrow afternoon. I have held lengthy discussions with a number of interested parties on the matter. The TUI and ICTU, which support the Bill, have sought consultations with the Department to discuss aspects of it. As far as I know the National Council for Educational Awards has not had the opportunity to consult on it, although I have not been able to confirm that.
The House will acknowledge that both the Universities Act, and the Education Act crossed over Governments and they are both better for the consultation process, long as it may have been. In my time in the House it has never rushed education legislation because precious little of it comes before us. We have pushed very little of it through and we have always tended to deal with it carefully. Therefore, I ask that this Bill would not be taken tomorrow.
When we dealt with such issues previously, for instance the Trinity College legislation, the House took the view – supported by all Members – that these matters should be dealt with sensitively. That Bill is now being dealt with through a separate process which we all support. It would look bad if the Dublin Institute of Technology, the university of the people – and that is no reflection on Senator Norris's alma mater – felt legislation pertaining to it was being rushed through. Many public representatives have a high level of involvement in this sphere of education. I appeal to the Leader to reconsider his position from the point of view of both sides of the House and put this off. Otherwise we will be in difficulty. This will not go through the process without fuller consultation.
I support Senator Manning on the need to support our negotiators in the North who are currently going through a difficult time. I thank the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Andrews, for dealing with an issue I raised in this House, that is the executive council and president of the Turkish teachers' union being taken to court over education, organisation and social issues. The Minister directed a member of the Irish embassy in Turkey to attend a security court as the only international observer. The Turkish teachers' union has confirmed the view that this was a crucial intervention. About 15 people had been facing jail but the case has now been dismissed. According to international teacher groups the intervention of the Department of Foreign Affairs was the most significant and crucial aspect of the case.
I agree with my colleagues in their call for a postponement of the Committee and Final Stages of the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill. On Second Stage I protested that the Bill was being taken in too short a period of time. It had been introduced only a couple of days earlier and we had to debate it without the opportunity of consulting interest groups, of which there are many. We should leave consideration of the Bill until after Easter. This would give a proper opportunity for third level and further education interests to make representations. We can then examine the legislation more fully.
I agree with Senator Manning's remarks on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and I call for a re-opening of the inquiry into that tragic event which took place almost 25 years ago – on 17 May it will be the 25th anniversary of the bom bings. They claimed the largest number of lives in a single bombing until the recent Omagh bombing. The inquiries by the RUC or the Garda to date have not been adequate. Forensic evidence was not provided. It is time we tried to put the past behind us on both parts of this island.
I ask the Leader to indicate if legislation is proposed and being prepared on genetically modified foods. The first test case on the issue in the courts and undoubtedly this will be the subject of considerable debate and concern. It is important that consumers know what is being presented in supermarkets and elsewhere. I ask the Leader to indicate the Government's intention in this respect.
I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the House to explain the bizarre case in which a person convicted of drunken driving and in which a fatality occurred. The judge indicated a two year review period but another judge dealt with the case within 12 months without any reference to the DPP and without anybody's knowledge. It is most bizarre. For the rule of law to operate, it is important that Members of this House know what happened. I ask the Leader to ensure the Minister addresses this House on the matter.
I ask yet again that the House be given the opportunity to debate the deterioration in the quality of drinking water. I have been seeking this debate for a number of months. Members on all sides of the House wish this debate to take place. Our concerns have been confirmed in the recently published EPA report in which Dr. Paddy Flanagan described the quality of drinking water in parts of this country as "dire". He said that visitors would be advised to drink bottled water in some parts of this country. He further pointed out that the law regarding the maintenance of the quality of drinking water is lax and that five counties have not even submitted a report.
We have a potentially grave public health and economic issue on our hands. Discerning tourists will not want to visit a country where the quality of drinking water or food is suspect. The animals which provide food also drink the water. This a grave issue and must be debated fully in the House with a view to taking action to tackle and reverse this dangerous trend. I appeal to the Leader not to make me a promise on this occasion which he does not propose to deliver.
He would never do that.
Before I call the next speaker on the Order of Business I would like to make two points. First, I have allowed latitude to the leaders of groups regarding the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill which will be taken tomorrow. Technically it is not in order on the Order of Business today to discuss tomorrow's business. However, in view of the importance of the matter, I have allowed latitude to the leaders of the groups to make the point. The point has been made and I hope there will be no further discussion on the matter.
Second, the leaders of all groups have extended good wishes to the negotiators in the discussions taking place in the North. Those good wishes have been extended on behalf of all Members and groups in the House. I ask Members to refrain from any further comment on the matter.
I call Senator Fintan Coogan to speak strictly on the Order of Business.
I intend to remain strictly on the Order of Business. My point relates to item 2 of today's business as proposed by the Leader of the House. There are times when we rush legislation through this House. The justification for our existence is that we oversee legislation and examine the minutiae of it so that when it leaves this House we feel we can stand behind it. However, we are rushing the Report and Committee Stages of this Bill. I am not asking for Report Stage to be put back another week because I know Deputy Healy-Rae will be getting anxious. However, I ask that Report Stage be scheduled for after Private Members' Time. If the Leader agrees to that I will be happy.
I would like more information about UNESCO and Ireland's relationship with it. The Leader might arrange for the appropriate Minister to come to the House in that regard. There is a UNESCO committee in Ireland about which I know little, but it seems appropriate that the Seanad should play a more direct role on that committee. UNESCO is involved in many activities, issues many reports and holds many conferences and it seems that the Seanad should play a more active role. Will the Leader schedule a debate on this?
Will the Leader clarify whether the terms of reference of the Flood tribunal need to be amended in order to refer to the emerging connections between Mr. George Redmond and a gaming hall owner in terms of licences that were granted wholesale and willy-nilly in the O'Connell Street/Parnell Street area of Dublin for the establishment of gaming dens, which are a serious social problem? If an amendment to the legislation is not required will he ask the relevant Minister to ensure that these licences are referred to the tribunal and are revoked immediately if anything fishy is found about them? These gaming establishments are an appalling curse in the centre of the city and would not be tolerated anywhere else. They are just dumped on us and there are severe social problems. What is emerging from the tribunal stinks to high heaven.
Given that there have been a number of useful debates on litter and the Litter Bill was passed during the last session, does the Leader share my astonishment at statements over the past day or two that a proportion of the rates paid by city centre businesses in Dublin will be applied to the litter problem in the suburbs as if there was no problem in the city centre? Dublin city centre is a complete and utter disgrace. I do not blame the corporation, which does a huge job. Will the Minister for the Environment and Local Government report to the House on litter wardens? I have never seen or heard of a litter warden. If legislation is passed in the House, surely we ought to see it implemented properly.
I will refrain from referring to the Education Bill until tomorrow except to say that a large number of amendments have been tabled and we cannot handle the Bill.
I share the concerns of Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello and Norris in regard to the Bill but I appreciate your ruling, a Chathaoirligh. As your ever obedient servant, I would not dare attempt to proceed further. Will the Leader outline the timetable for the proposed licensing laws Bill given the commitment he gave me yesterday? I am extremely concerned, as are most Members, in view of its importance to the tourist industry, that it should be in place before the summer.
Will the Leader bring to the attention of the Ministers for Finance and Enterprise, Trade and Employment the fact that credit card charges are exorbitant and excessive? It is a matter of grave concern as credit card interest rates are extremely high. This is unacceptable, particularly in this era of low interest rates. Will he also inquire about booking fee charges for concerts? People who book tickets via credit cards are charged an exorbitant fee. It is absolute robbery and, hopefully, the Government will act on it.
Senator Coogan suggested that Report Stage of the Local Elections (Disclosure of Donations and Expenditure) Bill, 1999, be taken following Private Members' Business this evening. I suggest that it be taken tomorrow since there has been a strong call to reschedule the debate on the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill, 1999.
Are there plans to bring forward the legislation to establish the TRBDI in Thurles on a statutory basis? I am aware that this is being prepared in the Department of Education and Science. Will it be ready for the next session?
Will the Leader indicate the times allocated for the legislation before us? Will he set definite times for item 2? I suggest given the importance of the Local Elections (Disclosure of Donations and Expenditure) Bill, 1999, that there should be a gap between Committee Stage and Report Stage, with Report Stage to be taken tomorrow preferably.
I join Senators Manning, O'Toole and Costello in sending best wishes to the Taoiseach and the Ministers concerned in the Northern Ireland negotiations. All of us look forward to a successful conclusion to these very difficult talks. I will set time aside, possibly during the first week of the new session, for a debate on the possibility of setting up a full public inquiry into the Dublin-Monaghan bombings. I totally support the call for that.
Many Senators expressed concern about the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill, Committee Stage of which is scheduled for tomorrow. Nothing will be rushed through this House. I take on board the views of senior Senators and the leaders of the various groups. However, Committee Stage of the Bill is scheduled tomorrow and progress will be reviewed. I will work in consultation as much as I can with the leaders of the various groups but they must bear in mind that I am also here to ensure that legislation is processed through the House. However, nobody will rush legislation through – that has not happened to date – within reason. I thank the leaders of the Opposition groups for their co-operation and help during this Seanad.
Senator Costello inquired about legislation on genetically modified food. I will make inquiries and come back to him. Senator Quill called for a debate on the quality of our drinking water. Everybody is agreed about this and I will facilitate the Senator during the early part of the next session. This is not just a promise as I must try to provide time for statements while legislation is being processed. Last year 17 Bills were initiated in the Seanad; that was a new departure. I do not want the House sitting on too many Fridays.
Senators Coogan and Gallagher requested an amendment to the Order of Business. I will move an amendment to facilitate their request that the Remaining Stages of item 2 will be taken following Private Members' business. I will come back to Senator Ó Murchú when I complete my inquiries regarding his request. Senator Norris expressed concern about the gaming licences that were granted in the north inner city of Dublin, particularly in the Parnell Square area, and the possibility of an amendment to the terms of reference of the Flood tribunal. I will pass on his concerns to the Minister. I will also pass on his concerns on litter in the city centre to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government.
Senator Coghlan again raised the proposed timetable for the new licensing laws. I can confirm that it is currently before the Government. As soon as I hear further, I will come back to the House and the Senator. Senator O'Dowd called for another debate on credit cards within the banking system. Everyone agrees that their charges are too high considering the low interest rates because of our membership of the euro; the same can be said about the charges applied to bookings for concerts and other entertainment events. It is something about which we will have a lengthy debate, possibly during the second week of the new session. I will come back to Senator O'Meara once I have inquired about the concerns she raised.
I move amendment No. 1:
That items 1, 2 and 22 be taken with Report Stage of item 2 to be taken at the conclusion of item 22.
Amendment agreed to.
Order of Business, as amended, agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 11.05 a.m. and resumed at 11.15 a.m.