Today's Order of Business is No. 1, statements on the state of the nation (NESC Report). Contributions of spokespersons shall not exceed 20 minutes and of all other Senators shall not exceed ten minutes. Business to conclude not later than 7 p.m.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreeable. Ten minutes for other Senators is a bit short, given the size of the report. Perhaps the time allowed could be changed to 20 minutes and 15 minutes, if that is agreeable, as it is a major document.
I ask the Leader of the House his intention regarding No. 4. Senator Ryan has already raised this matter. Perhaps in the calmer interchange between myself and the Leader, he might be able to tell me his intentions regarding the Bill which was published before the summer recess. When is it intended to move the Bill?
It is interesting that in an opinion poll pub lished last week a majority of people said they would vote for Partnership for Peace but they also said they would have liked to have had the opportunity to vote in a referendum on the matter. That is something about which there is considerable anger. Will the Leader assure us that, when the Dáil finishes debating the issue today, this House will have an opportunity next week to debate Partnership for Peace?
I wish to request once again a general debate on education and literacy. The matter has been raised by Members on the Leader's side of the House and in a number of other ways. The opinion poll in The Irish Times last week indicated that people felt there was a need for investment in education. Perhaps we could have a broad discussion on how the area might be developed and on the importance of a number of issues from early childhood education to adult education, including literacy at primary, post-primary and third levels. It is a matter on which Members on all sides have a major contribution to make. I would appreciate if the Leader acted on his commitment to have a discussion on this, a commitment he gave me before the end of the last session.
I also wish to raise with the Leader his proposals regarding the national development plan. We thought the debate on the NESC report would also deal with aspects of the national plan and I have no doubt people will put proposals in that regard. The national development plan and the Estimates will be published in the next ten days and it is crucial that we have a debate on them. Today's debate sets a certain scene. The national development plan will outline what the Government intends to do and will tie in a good deal of the general debates we have had in the House in past years, especially those on investment in the west, in industry and financial developments. We should be planning for that debate at this stage.
I raised the issue of taxis last week. The Government has given vague commitments about the future of the taxi service, in Dublin city especially. I said last week it was not a Dublin city problem. Cabs, hackneys and taxis are a problem in every provincial town. I would still like to have a discussion on that specific area and to hear the Minister's views on it.
I agree with Senator O'Toole about the need for a debate on the national development plan as soon as it is published. It was supposed to have been published last month and that is the context in which we sought a debate on it. It will be before us within the next fortnight and we should have an opportunity to debate it.
Will the Leader find out from the Minister for Education and Science when the Green Paper on Adult Education is likely to be published? It was promised by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, before Christmas. We would like to know if it will be before us by that date.
No. 17, motion 5, on the Order Paper in the name of Senators Norris and Ryan reads:
That Seanad Éireann expresses its concern at the continuing difficulties being experienced by asylum seekers and refugees in this country and requests the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to give an explanation to the House.
This motion is more important now than ever. We would like the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to explain to the House the circumstances which arose yesterday which forced the refugee applications centre to close and to explain the understaffing of the centre which has caused the breakdown of industrial relations. There is a crisis. We have raised this matter repeatedly, yet the Minister has taken no action over the past 12 months to deal with the problems which brought about the breakdown in services yesterday. It was arranged during the summer that 2,000 to 3,000 asylum seekers would be entitled to obtain work permits yet only 15 permits have been issued. There appears to be a total breakdown of communication between the Government and its colleagues; indeed, the Progressive Democrats seem to be divided on this issue. The Minister responsible for this area, namely, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, seems to be at loggerheads with her Minister of State. Perhaps the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform would come into the House to explain how the situation has been allowed to deteriorate to this extent.
I was very moved recently by a letter I received from a young widow with a large family in County Cork. It brought home to me how vulnerable and helpless some people still feel in the atmosphere of the Celtic tiger. The woman's husband had been a teacher and because three of their children were born after his retirement, they do not qualify for the normal allowances under the widows' and orphans' fund. It is very sad that this woman is threatening such an extreme protest on this issue. If the Leader were to approach the Minister for Education and Science, who is a very sensitive and humane person, and ask him to place the emphasis we all place on family values, something could be done in this case. It would also show that the wheels of bureaucracy need not necessarily turn so slowly.
Given that the report on health and smoking, A National Anti-Smoking Strategy, is being launched today, will the Leader arrange for this momentous report to be debated as soon as possible?
I requested that debate last week.
The report has been launched today and I know I will have the support of my fellow Senators who serve on the Oireachtas committee with me in regard to the implementation of this excellent report. The report is now the property of the Houses of the Oireachtas and it should be debated as soon as possible.
I join with my colleague's request for a debate on the absence of an immigration policy and the breakdown in administration which is the Minister's responsibility. We must be very proactive in this area.
I am very grateful to Senator Costello for raising No. 17, motion No. 5. I formally propose the following amendment to the Order of Business: "That motion No. 5 be taken at the start of business."
This is a serious issue. The situation is disgraceful. We held a debate in this House a year ago at which time asylum seekers were left standing in the rain outside the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform for 24 hours. They have since been transferred to Mount Street where, in defiance of the clearly expressed wish of this House, they are still receiving exactly the same treatment. This is not an accident; it is a deliberate action on the part of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
That is nonsense.
The Department is deliberately seeking to intimidate asylum seekers in violation of the Constitution, which is not a pious aspiration but something which has legal force, as I know only too well. The Constitution claims to be Christian and democratic but the attitude and actions of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform are not only unchristian but also unconstitutional.
Does the Senator want the Minister to break the law?
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform must come into the House to answer questions on this issue.
An advertisement by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform urgently seeking accommodation recently appeared in a newspaper. What way is that to run a Department? This is a highly sinister matter. The advertisement reads:
Persons offering accommodation are reminded that under the Fire Services Act, 1981, persons having control over premises have a duty of care to take appropriate measures to guard against the outbreak of fire. In this regard, the owner should state in writing that the premises meets appropriate—
Senator Norris—
Thank you, a Chathaoirligh. The advertisement is a mere attempt on the part of the Department to get itself off the hook.
The Senator is making a speech.
The Senator has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business. The debate which he is seeking through that amendment will not be required if I allow him to proceed any further.
I am glad I succeeded in mentioning this advertisement which I urge people to read. It is an appalling admission of failure and cynicism.
I would like to raise the issue of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. It is extraordinary to me that we have opted for a private inquiry in this State. The Government has demanded and been given public inquiries into similar events in the North of Ireland. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I am aware embarrassing things may come out during that inquiry but it must be in public out of respect for the relatives of the people who died in the carnage in Dublin. We are entitled and they are entitled to a public inquiry. Will the Leader ask the Government why it wants a private inquiry in this jurisdiction and a public inquiry in the United Kingdom?
I ask the Leader to arrange at an early date a debate on under age drinking. My good friend and colleague, Senator Willie Farrell, has raised this issue on a number of occasions. From my information, under age drinking is reaching epidemic proportions. The Midland Health Board carried out a survey which clearly indicated that a large proportion of boys and girls in their early teens are experiencing the results of alcoholism. I am sure the same result could be reflected by every other health board. Alcoholism is one of the highest causation factors for admission to psychiatric hospitals.
I call again for a debate on suicide, a phenomenon that has reached epidemic proportions. Suicide is so frequent now that it fails to make headlines. I come from Killucan which is in Raharney parish and over the past years this area has been devastated by suicide. Hardly a month goes by without an incidence. I do not want to revisit the pain and suffering on the relatives of the deceased but a debate might throw some light on the causation factors associated with this terrible problem.
I second Senator Norris's motion. The situation regarding refugees is ridiculous. Yesterday afternoon, while the office that deals with asylum seekers was shut, I spent a considerable amount of time with two women who have had children within this State. Those children are Irish citizens and can stay here but other members of their family, including children, are having trouble. The threat of deportation is being held over their heads. This is urgent. These people are at the gates of Leinster House again today.
One of the women I spoke to can speak Latvian, Norwegian, Russian, German and English. She might be able to help deal with the queues in Mount Street but those people cannot be employed.
The report of the Inspector of Mental Hospitals for 1998 has been published. This is wonderful and means that documents will not be historical when they are published. I would be grateful if we could have a debate on that report, especially in view of the fact that there is still no sign of the Mental Health Bill which has been promised since this Government came into office. It was promised for a long time before that, so it is not only this Government I have mentioned it to.
I was late getting here today because I tried to drive down the roads along the canal. I would have been quicker if I had travelled by horse-drawn barge. When will we get free flow instead of free for all?
I support the call for the Minister for Public Enterprise to come into the House. I read with horror a heading in one of today's newspaper that she is not responsible for any probable accident that may happen on the public transport system. I accept that she is not personally responsible but she is the Minister. It is not good enough to wait for an accident to happen. I would also like to mention that we still have not got the voice-over on the DART. Members can picture the plight of the visually impaired in overcrowded conditions on a public transport system that the rest of us would love to have because our systems are so bad. I know the Minister is forward looking in these matters and I am sure she is aware of her grave responsibility to provide a safer system. I look forward to her coming to the House. Will the Leader ask the Minister to come to the House to debate safety and also what has happened to Operation Freeflow? When will Santa Claus come in respect of the traffic?
1 December.
1 December? He is already in the shops.
Will the Leader bring to the attention of the Minister for Foreign Affairs the considerable concern about a list with 300 hundred names of members of the Nationalist and republican communities in Northern Ireland winding up in an Orange Hall? The list contained not only the names but the addresses of and personal information about these people. Many of these people are legitimately and democratically involved in the SDLP and Sinn Féin. It has been firmly established that this list came from British Army intelligence which might lead people to believe there was something sinister about the list in that these people would not have been on it if there was no reason for them to be on it, such as involvement in violence or anti-government or anti-state activity. From what I know, that is far from the truth in many cases.
These people should be contacted as their lives have been put in danger. Will the Leader contact the Minister for Foreign Affairs and ask him to protest strongly about this matter and to ensure these people who, in most cases, are legitimately involved in politics in Northern Ireland are informed of the danger they are in and that they are given adequate protection?
I note with immense satisfaction that work is proceeding apace on the reopening of the long shut former Pretty Polly factory in Killarney. I am particularly glad to note that the chief executive and other key people are in place and are busily recruiting other necessary staff and attending to all other needs. It will be a successful industry for the Sara Lee Corporation from the United States which, coincidentally, is the owner of Pretty Polly.
A question for the Leader.
A Chathaoirligh, would I let you down?
He has an order.
Will the Leader inform us when the Tánaiste expects to make a formal announcement about this venture? Is it a matter I should discuss with one of her colleagues or a certain influential Member of the other House?
In view of the Taoiseach's involvement in what has become known as the Ellis affair, will the Leader bring to his attention the fact no meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine has taken place in the past three to four weeks despite the considerable questions arising from this important issue? I note that even Senator Finneran had to make a special request to discuss the sheep industry this evening. There is a plethora of issues to be discussed, including the dairy industry, the quota regime and the pig industry – farmers representing the pig industry protested outside the gates today. This committee has not met for the past four weeks. This is a disgrace—
This House has no control over when committees meet.
I understand that. In view of the discussions which are taking place, will the Leader bring to the Taoiseach's attention this important matter?
Will the Leader arrange an immediate debate on the future of Bord Gáis and ask the Minister for Public Enterprise to come to the House to discuss its future development? I had a preview of the areas to which the gas is to be extended in order to develop the west of Ireland. The west seems to start in Mayo and end in Clare.
Not for Deputy Healy-Rae.
People seem to forget about Kerry, which is another county in the west, and the Shannon estuary, which is a very important area. We should have a debate with the Minister on that area. Today a gas connection with Scotland was announced and I am informed that gas can be piped to Ireland from Russia and other countries which have an abundance of gas. If we are to have meaningful rural development the Leader should organise a full debate on the future of Bord Gáis.
Bord Gáis may be important but it is much more important to have an urgent debate on electricity generating capacity. We had quite a crisis this week. We can look back on years of lack of investment, lack of long-term planning and lack of foresight and realise the crisis we now face. The Leader should organise a debate on electricity generating capacity immediately, while we still have light to do so.
Hear, hear.
I assure Senator Quinn that it is not lack of effort but the over-importance of people objecting when the ESB try to do things that is the problem. We should discuss the role of objectors and not the lack of effort on the part of the Government.
I support Senator Glynn's call for a debate on suicide. This is a serious problem and we might be able to do something about it. I also support his comments on the abuse of alcohol. I call on the drinks industry to provide a generous sum each year to help house victims who live in cardboard cities as a result of over-indulgence in their products. Those products are over-advertised in a glossy fashion.
Hear, hear.
I pay tribute to Marian Finucane of RTE. This morning she highlighted the fact that our Pope played a leading role in the events leading to the demolition of the Berlin Wall and it is sad he has not been invited to the celebrations in Germany.
I ask the Leader to bring to the attention of the Minister for the Environment and Local Government the urgent need to change the terms of the existing tenant purchase scheme for local authority tenants. Newer tenants are unable to buy their houses because the market value of those houses has increased out of all proportion to the original building costs. A house built for £30,000 is now being sold to tenants for £70,000 to £100,000. If they cannot buy the houses their rent goes up, so they are caught in a bind. This is an increasing problem and must be addressed.
I support Senator Glynn's call for a debate on mental health and suicide. There have been recent studies and reports on this matter that we should discuss. Communities all over the country are being deeply hurt by this and there has been a huge increase in male suicides. We should deal with the matter in a sensitive way, but it is worthy of an in-depth discussion and analysis.
I support Senator Finneran's call for a debate on or investigation into the events in Northern Ireland. I am loth to say too much about the situation with the talks at such a delicate stage, but what happened last week is the basis for everything that has happened in Northern Ireland in the past 50 or 60 years. I hope the Patten report will be implemented in full. We are told that two different groups participating in the talks are holding up the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. For many years the republicans said no but now it is the other side who are doing so. This is one indication of the stalling which is taking place. The Orange Order has always maintained it is a non-violent organisation. However, the discovery of this information highlights the truth.
I support the call by the Leader of the Opposition for a debate on PfP. Recent opinion polls showed the possible outcome of a referendum. It is right that this House should debate the issues involved as was done in the Dáil. I ask the Leader to allocate time for that debate.
Senator Manning asked for 20 minutes for spokespersons and 15 minutes for other Senators to speak on the NESC report, to which I agree. I look forward to many contributions from both sides of the House. Senators Manning, O'Toole and Bonner asked for a debate on Partnership for Peace, which will take place next Tuesday afternoon. Senators Costello and O'Toole asked about adult education. I will convey Senator Costello's query about the Green Paper on Adult Education to the Minister for Education and Science and come back to him. Senator O'Toole called for a debate on adult literacy, to which I will allocate time in the next few weeks.
Senators Norris, Henry and others asked about No. 5 and Senator Norris proposed an amendment to the Order of Business in this regard. This item was put on the Order Paper on 8 December 1998. The Independents have been allocated a great deal of Private Members' time since then and if the Senator feels so strongly about it, I have no problem allocating further Private Members' time to enable more discussion. I will convey the views and concerns of Senator Ó Murchú to the Minister for Education and Science.
Senator Jackman called for a debate on smoking regulations, to which I will allocate time before the end of this session. It is a worthwhile report and is an issue by which everyone is affected. As someone with a great deal of experience of this problem, I am wholeheartedly in support of Senator Jackman's request for a comprehensive debate. Senator Henry called for a debate on the 1998 mental health report, to which I will allocate time. The Mental Health Bill is ready to be published and brought before the Houses and I look forward to Senators' contributions.
I will convey the views of Senator Ridge to the Minister. The bus corridors are working well and from what I can gather are being used by many young people who are leaving their cars behind in the morning because they can be at their place of employment at least an half an hour earlier. The bus corridors are commuter friendly and there are no delays. The self-employed can use public transport and plan their morning appointments because the bus corridors are enabling buses to leave and arrive on time.
What about the bus stops?
Everyone associated with the bus corridors must be congratulated because there has been an improvement.
What about the safety aspect?
Senators Finneran and Bonner asked me to pass on to the Minister for Foreign Affairs their concerns on the lists of up to 300 people from the Nationalist community that were found in the possession of the Orange Order in Northern Ireland. The matter is regrettable and major questions about it remain to be answered. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has already taken a serious view of it and has let this be known to his counterpart in Northern Ireland.
Senator Coghlan told the House the good news regarding Pretty Polly concerning his Government colleagues in his constituency. It is welcome news and I will celebrate it with him later on perhaps.
Senator Tom Hayes expressed his views on the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine. I understand the committee has been meeting frequently and has been very productive. It has been one of the best committees of the House with senior and experienced members, including the current chairman. I have always responded to requests from the Government or Opposition sides of the House for debates on agriculture. The Senator has never found me wanting in that regard and if he has any future concerns they will be heeded by me. Agriculture is still the most important industry in the country and everything that can be done to deal with the current difficulties in the sector is being done. I was involved in agriculture for quite a while and I found the biggest problem was that there were no fixed prices for any commodity. It is the most difficult industry to work in and I speak as someone who has invested in it. It is mind-boggling and I do not know how people can survive in the farming sector. It is the biggest problem that will face us over the next 25 years.
Senators Glynn, Farrell and Chambers called for a debate on suicide and time will be allowed for such a discussion. Senators have also called for a debate on under age drinking which is one of the greatest menaces facing us as legislators. Stiff penalties will be included in the new licensing laws, including the elimination of liquor licences which will be end result for those allowing their licensed premises to be used for under age drinking. I will arrange for a debate on this matter at the earliest opportunity.
Senator Dan Kiely called for a debate on the future development of the national gas grid. He comes from a constituency whose population has declined, as it has in my area. The gas grid is of major importance for such areas. For anyone with an eye on a Dáil seat this matter is one that will help them along in their careers. Time will be allowed for this debate.
Gas is better than candlesticks.
Senator Quinn called for an urgent debate on the ESB's electricity generating capacity and I will arrange to have a debate on this matter. Senator O'Dowd raised the question of tenant purchase which is a problem in the bigger towns and cities, although it does not affect us in the rural constituencies. I will ask the Minister to attend the House for a debate on this subject.
Senator Norris has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 17, motion 5, be inserted before No. 1." Is the amendment being pressed?
Yes. The Leader's response was quite unsatisfactory. He drew attention to the fact that this motion has been on the Order Paper for a year, yet nothing has been done about it. We will call a vote.
Amendment put.
Tá
|
Coghlan, Paul.Costello, Joe.Hayes, Tom.Henry, Mary.Jackman, Mary. |
Manning, Maurice.Norris, David.O'Dowd, Fergus.Quinn, Feargal.Ridge, Thérèse. |
Níl
|
Bonner, Enda.Callanan, Peter.Cassidy, Donie.Chambers, Frank.Cregan, JohnDardis, John.Farrell, Willie.Finneran, Michael.Fitzgerald, Liam.Fitzgerald, Tom.Gibbons, Jim.Glynn, Camillus. |
Kett, Tony.Kiely, Daniel.Kiely, Rory.Lanigan, Mick.Leonard, Ann.Mooney, Paschal.Moylan, Pat.O'Brien, Francis.Ó Murchú, Labhrás.Ormonde, Ann.Ross, Shane.Walsh, Jim. |
Tellers: Tá, Senators Henry and Norris; Níl, Senators T. Fitzgerald and Gibbons.
Amendment declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.