The Order of Business is No. 1, Irish Nationality and Citizenship Bill, 1999 – Report and Final Stages; and No. 2, Shannon River Council Bill, 1998 – Second Stage. No. 2 will be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., and business will resume thereafter if not previously concluded.
Order of Business.
I will obviously not ask for a debate on Northern Ireland, but there is a sense in which we are all watching as events seem to be sliding in a particular direction. We know that a large number of people are trying hard to avert what would be a catastrophe. All I can say, as we said last week, is that we wish well those who are trying so hard to avert what could be a major setback to the entire peace process.
Regarding No. 2 on the Order of Business, since there is general agreement on the principle of the Bill and Second Stage is about principle, and since we had the assurance of the Leader last week that Fianna Fáil will be supporting the Bill, I suggest that Second Stage should be completed at 8 p.m. this evening and then we would have time next week to give it detailed examination on Committee Stage. The promoters of the Bill have assured me that they are open to any proposals for change to improve the Bill which the Government or other groups may wish to table. It is in the interests of the Bill that we try to complete Second Stage this evening and then have Government time next week for a detailed Committee Stage review. I would welcome the Leader's views on that matter.
I thank the Fine Gael group for tabling the Shannon River Council Bill, 1998, in Private Members' time. It is a generous, positive and progressive gesture which is appreciated by all sides of the House. I fully endorse and support the suggestion of Senator Manning that Second Stage should be dealt with tonight in order that there can be support from all sides of the House and the Government side would not be in any way embarrassed and would be able to engage in making whatever changes are required. We know their views and that they support the principle and the approach of the Bill. It would be sensible to approach this matter on an all-party basis.
I remind the House about that of which we dare not speak – the review of salaries and allowances of Members of the Oireachtas which is now under way. Discussions and presentations on the review will take place over the next few months. If Members have any views on matters which should be raised, as points of argument or otherwise, in support of a positive review of salaries and allowances, I would be pleased to hear them, as would the Whips or Leaders of any of the groups.
On a related topic, a major discussion is going on publicly which is in danger of becoming a political football. It is based around the topic of Fianna Fáil struggling within itself over ethics in public office. It behoves all of us on both sides of both Houses to take a common approach on this matter. It should not be a case of one party or group trying to out bid the others in terms of morality. We need an open, simple and implementable system or series of principles which should attach to people going forward for public office. That should be agreed on all sides and should not be a matter for competition between parties. We do not need all public office holders to be paragons of virtue; they can be rogues as long as they are honest rogues. We need to approach the matter positively, and that should be done on an all-party basis.
Last week I called for a debate on Northern Ireland to be scheduled for this week in the expectation that matters would have been resolved at the weekend. However, the question of what will happen in Northern Ireland is not likely to be finally resolved until the end of this week, on Friday, when there is a danger of direct rule being re-imposed. We are at a very critical time and obviously we will not call for a debate immediately, but next week would seem to be an appropriate time to have one. Whatever decision is to be taken, it will be done by this weekend. It is a critical time and there is a danger of disappointment leading to recriminations and bitterness. We all wish that, even at this late stage, there could be some mechanism whereby the IRA and the British Army might – we will not say jump together – at least take a step together with the disposal of some hardware. The ultimate intention of the Good Friday Agreement is that all military and paramilitary presence should be removed from Northern Ireland. This is a time for cool heads.
I wish to refer to item 21, motion No. 8 – a Labour Party motion – which states: "That Seanad Éireann calls on the Government to publish a White Paper on early childhood education". One of the first major initiatives taken by any Minister in the new Northern Ireland Assembly was that taken by Martin McGuinness on early childhood education. He decided that a free state system of pre-school education should be introduced. We could very well reflect upon that and look towards establishing a similar system in the Republic. Will the Leader of the House allow an early debate on that motion by the Labour group?
It is right that we should not debate Northern Ireland immediately. However, irrespective of the outcome between now and Friday, it would be appropriate for us to consider the issue in some detail next week. We all hope and pray that the present impasse can be overcome and that progress can be made in cementing the peace process. It was quite significant when, a couple of weeks ago, we saw farmers protesting outside Stormont. That indicated the healthy normality of political life in Northern Ireland, with which we can readily identify here. It would be good to debate the issue because there are major matters that merit such a discussion. Our history with regard to these debates is one of offering considered and balanced opinions. From that point of view, we should return to the matter next week, hopefully on the basis that there will have been a resolution to the problem.
Under Standing Orders we cannot have a vote of sympathy in the House. However, it is appropriate for us to record the passing of the former Deputy Tom Foxe in Roscommon. He was an agricultural scientist, a profession I shared with him and the late Pat Upton. We have, therefore, recently lost two of the agriculturalists who were educated in UCD. He was a very decent man who achieved a great deal for his constituents. It is appropriate that we would record his passing and extend our sympathy to his immediate family and his colleagues in Roscommon.
I am shocked by what is happening in my native city of Dublin, which is becoming a bit like Al Capone's Chicago. Last night, a person was picked up, shot and flung onto the street. We have had gang warfare since January. I ask the Leader to ensure the Minister comes to the House to tell us how he proposes to tackle this scourge. There have been 12 violent deaths since Christmas. This sorry state of affairs must be tackled immediately.
I join in the expression of sympathy to the relatives and friends of the late former Deputy Tom Foxe. He was a Member of Dáil Éireann for two terms. He was a very respected and popular Member of the Oireachtas and is a major loss to his family and the people of Roscommon. It was generally accepted in this House that Tom Foxe was a gentleman. His contribution was always made in the interests of the community and the public. While he was involved in many aspects of life through his profession, he was also involved in sport, particularly boxing.
His greatest legacy is that, in a tight voting situation in Dáil Éireann, he used his political mandate to ensure the issue on which he was originally elected, that is, the maintenance of Roscommon county hospital as an acute general hospital, was kept in place. That legacy will remain as an honour to Tom Foxe for years to come.
He was a member of Roscommon County Council, which he chaired for a while, until his death. While he was not a Member of this House, I ask the Leader to convey the House's sympathy to his three sisters, the rest of his immediate family and his organisation, the hospital election committee.
I also join in the tributes to the former Deputy Foxe. I did not know him very well but I found him a gentle, unassuming and very hard working man.
Will the Leader firm up the suggestion he made to the House last week that he would grant time for a debate on the issue of a holiday on St. Brigid's day to recognise the contribution of women to national life? Will he indicate a date for that debate?
I have been asked by a number of people involved in the academic and cultural life of this city to raise the issue – which I know certain members of Fianna Fáil are also very anxious should be raised – of the possible destruction of Riversdale, the last residence of our greatest poet, W. B. Yeats. This is becoming a matter of international controversy. Over the years, I have campaigned to save houses associated with James Joyce. It is a shame that an important house associated with Yeats is under threat.
I agree with Senator O'Toole on the question of ethics. There should be a discussion but it should not be too nit-picking and we should not be foolish about it. I am getting rather tired of filling in forms admitting I received no bribes from anybody. It is very humiliating that, while everybody else seems to be getting them, nobody seems to think I am worth it. I was concerned to hear on the radio while I was on a train—
I agree with the Senator.
I cannot think why.
There has been a discussion in Fianna Fáil on this matter and it originally proposed to look for a tax clearance certificate but, according to the radio, it has withdrawn from that position because of revolt among backbenchers. It is now only requiring people to move towards a situation of regularising their tax affairs.
Senator Norris, this is not really relevant to the Order of Business.
Yes, that is very worrying.
It is not relevant to the Order of Business.
It is fairly relevant to the welfare of the public life of this country.
I support Senator Norris on the issue of W. B. Yeats's old home. This might appear to be a local issue, but it is of national interest. This very old 18th-century farmhouse is about to be demolished to clear the site for 28 apartments. While we can pursue the issue locally and put a preservation order on the house, W. B. Yeats was a Member of this House—
Hear, hear.
—and, therefore, it is an issue of national importance. I would like the Leader to call on the State to perhaps incorporate this house into plans for the performing arts or something in that area. I am conscious that this is becoming a national issue and it should be debated in this House.
I wish to be associated with the tributes to the late former Deputy, Tom Foxe, and the expressions of sympathy to his family. He was a true gentleman, a man of politics, as has been said by all speakers.
Now that draft No. 8 exists, a document entitled Standards in Public Life – Mandatory Code for Officeholders and Candidates issued by Fianna Fáil, will the Leader advise, for the benefit of the House, if this represents an outline of the Government's legislative proposals? If not, why not and when will we know? Will the Leader make a statement on the matter?
Next 23 July will be decision day as to whether the debts of certain impoverished countries will be wiped out by those who have the power to do so. As we know, many of these debts were incurred as a result of certain reckless policies of financial institutions in the 1970s, the decrease in prices for raw materials from these countries and, above all, the financial consequences arising from a price war among oil producing countries. Over 800,000 Irish people have signed a petition calling for the abolition of these debts. Will the Leader arrange an early debate so that we can reflect our support for those 800,000 people? It behoves the large powers to help in this constructive way and not always take fire brigade action by going into these countries with all guns blazing when matters get out of hand.
Will the Leader arrange a special debate on child care provision? We will have a debate tomorrow on the new partnership but it is clear from reports so far that this issue has, in effect, been postponed and has not been dealt with in the context of the agreement. We have had a number of debates on this issue and the Government knows there is a crisis. It is extraordinary that the issue has once again been postponed.
While we will have a debate tomorrow, it is only right, given the concerns raised in the past, particularly in this House, that we devote time in the near future to bringing to the Government's attention our serious concerns and disapproval of the fact that this issue has not been dealt with in the context of this agreement.
What is the position regarding the mental health Bill? We discussed before Christmas the report on the mental hospitals, which was quite controversial, and it was well covered by Vincent Browne. What is the current position on that Bill?
May I support the suggestions of Senators Manning and O'Toole that tonight's debate on the Shannon River Council Bill should be considered as a Second Stage debate? These suggestions reflect a spirit of co-operation between various parties in the House. Its seems an ideal arrangement to make it a Second Stage debate, particularly given Senator O'Toole's suggestion that a further step could be taken next week or some time in the future. This would give the Government an opportunity to suggest change and amend the Bill.
Given that we, as a nation, have decided our future rests on e-commerce, we should all be concerned about attacks by hackers on websites in the United States in recent days. Such attacks are the terrorism of the future. This is the sort of havoc that can affect our lives in the future. Will the Leader draw this to the attention of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to ascertain if new laws are required? In the United States the FBI is developing its ability to handle this type of attack. Has our law enforcement agency, whether it be the Garda or another group, got the ability to monitor and respond to such an attack? We have made a decision that this nation's future lies in e-commerce and we are developing legislation along that line. Do we need other legislation to protect ourselves from terrorists who could damage such developments? Does the House consider this would be worthy of a debate? It is worth drawing the attention of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the need for some action to be taken in this area.
Will the Leader bring to the attention of the Minister for Health and Children the urgent need to review the medical card guidelines, given that the proportion of our population in receipt of medical cards has dropped from 38% to the approximately 31% and an increasing number of single parents, on returning to work, have lost their entitlement to a medical card because they are not on the back to work scheme? If we want people, particularly mothers, to return to work, we should ensure they retain their entitlement to a medical card for a minimum of approximately two years while in employment.
In view of recent and impending appointments to the Supreme Court and the central place of the Constitution in Irish life, will the Leader facilitate the setting up of a judicial appointments committee to allow these appointees to put their views on the Constitution and its place in our lives on the public record?
Mine is a third voice to ask the Leader to do something to prevent the destruction of the late Senator Yeats's house. Senator Ormonde has done a splendid amount of work locally. I have a personal interest in this because my relations once rented it. While they have not written anything yet, we are living in hope of something happening in the future, in which case two plaques might have to be put up on the house.
Mr. Ryan
I want to be associated with the remarks about Deputy Tom Foxe. I knew him quite well and all the plaudits were well earned and justified.
My party leader was in Sligo recently and the chamber of commerce, in particular, asked that a broadband data transmission network be made available to Sligo. This is directly related to the Telecommunications (Infrastructure) Bill, which has been on the Order Paper for the past nine months. The Minister for Public Enterprise would be far better off dealing with this than making historically inaccurate statements in relation to an underground in Dublin. The underground in London was built by digging holes in the ground, destroying everything around them, building the underground and then filling them in again. If that is what the Minister for Public Enterprise proposes should be done in the centre of Dublin, she should tell the people of Dublin so.
That is rubbish. It is the only sensible way to proceed.
Mr. Ryan
Otherwise she should leave off talking about things about which—
The anti-Dublin lobby strikes again.
Senator Ryan is digging a hole for himself.
He should stop digging and get out of the hole.
Order, please. Let us hear Senator Ryan on the Order of Business without interruption.
Mr. Ryan
That is what was done in London. If the Minister thinks the experience there proves it can be done in Dublin, she should read the geotechnical reports more thoroughly because I suspect they did not recommend the destruction of half of the centre of Dublin in order to build an underground.
Has the Senator read it?
Mr. Ryan
No.
Well, then, what is the Senator talking about? He is speaking from a position of ignorance as usual.
Mr. Ryan
The Minister's position was that it obviously could be done because it was done in London. I simply outlined how it was done in London.
(Interruptions.)
We will have an underground super highway running alongside it.
Does Senator Ryan wish to raise a matter on the Order of Business?
Mr. Ryan
I have a question which is directly related to what I have just said. When will we take the Telecommunications (Infrastructure) Bill which has been on the Order Paper for the past nine months?
I share the concerns of my colleagues about the last residence of W. B. Yeats. Like all national institutions he deserves to be cherished – and everything associated with him.
We will preserve the Senator as well.
Mr. Ryan
The other great national institution of which I would be most concerned because of my background is Fianna Fáil.
Hear, hear.
Mr. Ryan
Should we debate what has happened in that party? We seem to have a scandal every month.
The Senator is wrong.
Mr. Ryan
Almost all the scandals in Irish politics have emanated from one political party. It is time we all said, "Keep your scandals, we are not in it with you".
This is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Mr. Ryan
I have no patience with all of us being tarred with the same brush. My colleagues behind me accept that we are all the same. We are not.
Thank God I am not as other men.
Mr. Ryan
We know Senator Norris is not like other men.
The Senator would be surprised.
Has Senator Ryan a question for the Leader on the Order of Business?
Mr. Ryan
Has the Leader any other information—
That is a broad question.
Mr. Ryan
—on the reform of the Seanad franchise which he assured us last week was being pursued with some vigour? Has he acquired further information subsequently?
Notwithstanding the great courtesy that Senator O'Toole has shown us, I find it astonishing that Members still do not have copies of the most recent national agreement. It is astonishing that copies were not made available as a matter of urgency to Members when everyone of significance, as the world sees it, including journalists and economists, are talking about it in detail, yet we cannot read it. That is profoundly undemocratic and quite wrong.
I know Senator Quinn is a man of the highest liberal credentials but I am worried about the issues arising about the world-wide web. The only way to control the Internet is by giving the State totalitarian powers. People would be wise to accept that certain things cannot be done that way rather than moving down the road towards control levels. I suggest we do not move in the direction of State censorship of the Internet.
I support Senator Ridge's call for a debate on law and order. She made a valid point about the number of murders committed, not just in Dublin but in every town. Some 30,000 E tablets are put on the market every week, at a cost of between £10 and £15 per tablet. Almost £0.5 million is spent on this type of drug per week. I support the Senator in her call on the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the man who introduced the phrase "zero tolerance", to engage in an urgent debate on law and order. We have never had so many murders committed.
Before I call on the Leader to reply I would like to be associated with the tributes paid to my fellow county man, Tom Foxe. I join in the expression of sympathy to his family. I knew him long before he entered the political arena. He was an agricultural adviser for many years in Country Roscommon. In that role he was always extremely approachable and most courteous. He had a great interest in his work and in the community which he served and went out of his way to help any farmer who was experiencing particular difficulties. As a Member of the Dáil from 1989 until 1997 and as a member of Roscommon County Council he proved himself to be an extremely hard working and effective public representative. As other Members have said, he was exceptionally popular with his constituents and with fellow public representatives of all political persuasions.
Tom will be remembered with affection by everyone, particularly the people of County Roscommon who will recall his untiring campaign for the retention and upgrading of Roscommon county hospital. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam.
I wish to be associated with tributes to the late Tom Foxe. The Leader of the Opposition and former Leader of the House, Senator Manning, and I spent many great evenings in his company. I know Senator Manning wanted to pay tribute to Tom Foxe and we had arranged to do so tomorrow morning. If the Senator wishes to do so at that time, I will make time available for him.
As Leader of the House, I offer my sincere and heartfelt condolences to the sisters, family, friends and colleagues of the late Tom Foxe. It is difficult to understand the sense of shock we felt when we heard the news of Tom's death. It is always sad when one of our parliamentary colleagues passes away. However, it is truly tragic when someone like Tom, in the prime of his life, is snatched from our midst.
Tom brought many personal gifts to the principal tasks to which he devoted his life and he gave a lifetime of dedicated service to the people of County Roscommon. He was a person of tremendous ability, energy and commitment. This was clearly seen in the various roles he filled, most recently as a Dáil Deputy and a member and chairman of Roscommon County Council. He was respected by parliamentary colleagues on all sides of the House, who admired his strong sense of commitment and no-nonsense approach. It was this which gained him the respect and confidence of the entire community.
Tom was extremely popular with his constituents and colleagues in both the Oireachtas and Roscommon County Council, who always found him extremely approachable, courteous and pol ite. He had a reputation for being a hard working and effective public representative and will be remembered with great affection, particularly for his unrelenting campaign on behalf of Roscommon county hospital.
On behalf of the Members of this House and of the Fianna Fáil Party, I wish to express my deepest sympathy to his sisters, family and friends on passing of a fine man. Go ndearna Dia trócaire ar a anam.
On the Order of Business, Senators Manning, Costello, Dardis and Quinn expressed concern about the current situation in Northern Ireland. All we can do is to extend our best wishes to the Taoiseach, the British Prime Minister, President Clinton and all the leaders in Northern Ireland who are trying their best to bring this matter to a successful conclusion. We hope and pray that the unthinkable will not happen but that, in the interests of future generations, a breakthrough will occur. Everyone knows what is the right thing to do and there is never a wrong time to do it.
I call on those people who can bring this matter to a successful conclusion – they have already done a great deal to bring the peace process to its current position in terms of their involvement with the Good Friday Agreement – to ensure that peace becomes permanent. All involved, including the Provisional IRA, have stated that they want to make the peace last and make it work. By the time the House sits next week, I hope a resolution will have been achieved. I will speak with the leaders of the various groups in the House after the Order of Business in respect of arranging to make time available for a debate on Northern Ireland next week.
Many Members have indicated a desire to speak on Second Stage of the Shannon River Council Bill this evening. I propose, with the agreement of the House, to extend the debate on the Bill to next week's Private Members' time. I will make Government time available next week to continue Second Stage of the Bill and, if the Independent Senators agree, we will continue Second Stage during their Private Members' time the following week. Many Senators wish to contribute to Second Stage of this Bill and it is not possible under Standing Orders to facilitate all those who wish to speak during Private Members' time today.
I will pass on the views expressed by Senator O'Toole regarding Members' salaries and allowances, and I hope all Members took note of those views.
Hear, hear.
Consideration of this issue is long overdue, particularly given the new working arrangements of the House which involve four or five days per week due to sitting days and committees. Seanad Éireann now initiates one third of all legislation. A total of 76 Bills came before both Houses in the first two years of this Govern ment's term. This figure represents an unprecedented number of Bills and shows the amount of work which Members must undertake. I hope that recognition will be given to the commitment Members make in the national interest and in the interests of those we represent. It is a great honour to be a Member of this House but it must be borne in mind that Senators are rearing families, making a lifelong commitment and giving the prime years of their lives to being Members of the Oireachtas.
I will make time available for a debate on childhood education as called for by Senator Costello. I will also make time available to facilitate Senators Ridge and Burke who called for a debate on the violent deaths which have occured in the past months and which all Members will condemn. I will pass on to the Minister the views expressed by Senators Norris, Ormonde and Henry regarding W.B. Yeats's residence. Senator Norris called for St. Brigid's day to be made a holiday in honour of our national saint. My dear mother's name is Brigid and I will pass on the Senator's views to the Minister.
I will also convey to the Minister the views expressed by Senator Ó Murchú. Senator O'Meara called for a debate on child care. We debated this issue last year, I think. Much has been achieved in this area in the national agreement and I will make time available to discuss this issue tomorrow. I will also consider whether further time is necessary to debate this issue.
I will pass on the views expressed by Senators Quinn and Ryan to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Senator O'Dowd called for a review of the medical card scheme. It is great that our economic growth is reducing the numbers of people in need of medical cards because they have a good income.
They have not.
This must be a lonesome time to be in Opposition but I will make time available to discuss this issue if the Senator wishes. I will convey the views expressed by Senator Fitzpatrick to the Minister.
Senator Ryan made comments about my dear colleague, the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, one of the best Ministers we have had for some time. The Senator may be having second thoughts about joining the Labour Party. When a good Government is in power the Senator must take it on the chin and he cannot always be whinging and crying in the House. I have heard it said in Fianna Fáil that when someone leaves the party to become an Independent or to join another party, if they go once they go twice. There is no doubt that Senator Ryan could go a third time.
Who would have the Senator?
Last week I stated that reform of Seanad Éireann is imminent. Many Members are considering how we can improve the efficiency of the House so that it works to the betterment of the people. I would be delighted to hear the views of Senators on this issue, including those of Senator Ryan, who is an extremely gifted colleague. In fairness to the Senator, he expresses constructive views on many occasions but everyone has their circus moment once a year.
Order of Business agreed to.