Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 Apr 2000

Vol. 162 No. 22

Primary Education: Motion.

Mr. O'Toole

I move:

That Seanad Éireann notes the significant advances in primary education and the revolutionary changes including, inter alia, the revised curriculum, the introduction of information and communication technology and the piloting of modern European languages; recognises the ever increasing demands on teachers of developments such as the plean scoile of performance management, new codes of discipline, anti-drugs programmes, child abuse guidelines, sex education programmes and new systems of teacher accountability and school evaluation; welcomes the unparalleled contribution made by primary teachers to the design, management and implementation of these positive and progressive changes in Irish primary education; is concerned that there is, among the wider community, a lack of awareness of all that is happening in our primary schools and that there is a dearth of empirical research in this area; and proposes that the Minister for Education and Science initiates an independent performance audit of primary education so that by outlining, describing and confirming the extraordinary activity taking place, the trust and confidence of the community can be reinforced and so that this vital data can also be made available to those who are charged with determining the rewards, remuneration and career structure of teachers.

I am trying to achieve two things with my motion. First, I want to give people an insight into what is happening in primary education. Second, I want them to gain an understanding of the demands made on all the partners in the sector, not just on teachers. To that end I tabled this long motion. I am delighted to welcome the Minister for Education and Science to the House. This is the first opportunity he has had to outline his vision for education and I look forward to hearing what he has to say. I have no doubt that his comments will be very supportive.

The revised curriculum for primary education was introduced after full consultation with all the education partners. It has not happened anywhere else in western Europe that a revised curriculum has been introduced and on the day of its introduction had the full support of parents, management and teachers organisations and the Department's inspectorate. It is a model of how things should be done and everyone involved in education in Ireland should take a bow. The OECD has confirmed that Ireland introduced information and communication technology faster than any other European country. The same applies to the way teachers have been prepared to take on additional responsibilities.

We should also recognise the increasing demands placed on teachers by developments such as the plean scoile of performance management. Performance management is now in situ in primary education. School staff put together their plan for the operation of the school and deal with everything from the implementation of the curriculum to codes of discipline, relationships with parents, development of the management structures in the school and the organisation of everything from supervision to extra-curricular activities. This is hugely important.

The new codes of discipline have been discussed in this House on a number of occasions. We have also discussed the anti-drugs programmes, child abuse guidelines, sex education programmes and the new systems of teacher accountability and school evaluation. In other European countries governments and ministers are fighting to introduce and garner support for these measures, yet there is a consensus approach to them in Ireland. I ask the House to welcome the unparalleled contribution that has been made by primary schoolteachers, not just to the changes that I have mentioned but to the design, management, implementation, modification and continuous assessment of them. All of their contributions have been positive and progressive.

We must also look at the implications these changes will have on primary education but I will come back to that at a later stage. People who work in schools, particularly teachers, are worried that there is a lack of awareness in the wider community of all that is happening in our primary schools and that there is a dearth of empirical research to show what is happening.

In general, teachers get a bad press. It is easy to have a go at teachers in the media and journalists are adept at it. I am not trying to bash the media in response but teachers tend not to get a good press for the extraordinary work they do. It is time we had an independent consideration of their work. The Minister should initiate an independent performance audit of primary education which would examine how we approach change, make policies and how we describe, design, manage, implement and modify the change. An audit could examine whether there is a proper level of consultation, resources and support and whether it is moving at the correct pace. An independent audit would, for the first time, outline, describe and confirm the extraordinary activity that takes place in primary schools, in a way that would reinforce the trust and confidence of the community. This vital data could be made available and would be most useful to me in making a case to those who are charged with determining the rewards, remuneration, career structure and promotion of teachers.

This is the way to go about it. If we examine what is going on in schools then we could show that the changes are worthwhile, important, add value and improve the system. We could also prove that these changes add to our children's education and that the people who deliver that should be properly and fairly rewarded.

In recent times, there have been the most significant advances ever in primary education and the matters I have mentioned. I cannot recall, from my experience over the past 30 years and my knowledge of the history of primary education, when demands on teachers increased at such a rate.

The developments I mentioned have resulted in a substantial increase in the workload of teachers. The current pace of change at primary level is quite incredible. Each of those changes adds to the workload of the teacher.

Teachers have never been more in the firing line and it has never been so difficult to be a teacher. I am not saying that to whinge but to be factual. Many jobs are difficult at the moment, but huge demands are put on teachers. Parents have invested a huge amount in their children. The burgeoning Irish economy has huge expectations of the next generation. That brings its own problems in terms of demands on schools. However, in addition, there has never before been so many social problems and different family models that must be dealt with. Every one of those problems is evident in the school every Monday morning and is part and parcel of the teacher's work.

Today's primary teachers feel they are the dustbin where everybody's fresh idea for education or every expert's new proposal to cure the ills of society are left to be dealt with. Schools are expected to deal with everything but they cannot. While teachers and schools can be part of the solution to many problems, they cannot do it on their own. Teachers cannot change the attitudes and habits of a generation in the time they have with children because other things must also change. Listening to some commentators – I ask Members of the House to show some sympathy on this point – one could be forgiven for thinking that every problem in the country, including litter, vandalism, drug abuse, violence and delinquency, can be solved by teachers, simply by the introduction of yet another specially devised programme.

This adds to the frustration of teachers. They have, first, the frustration of dealing with these problems in the schools and then the added frustration of a community expectation that, in some way, the problems of litter can be fixed in school. The problem of bad manners cannot be fixed in school. Parents cannot send their children to school to learn manners. If children do not have manners when they go to school, they will not learn them there. That is a simple fact of life. If children grow up throwing litter on the ground, they can be stopped doing it at school but their behaviour will not be any different outside school unless the community attitude changes.

At the same time, the whole methodology, content and subject range of primary schools are constantly changing. Every week brings a new circular with a new proposal to be implemented. Despite all this, and the fact that every teacher is subject to regular, unannounced inspectors' visits, an annual confirmation of continuance and a full and rigorous school inspection every few years, numerous influential critics continue to bay for more accountability from teachers.

Primary teachers are accountable and are required to be confirmed in their position every year. School staff are required to be confirmed, at the outside, every four years, but usually much more often than that. Every teacher is visited by a team of inspectors and becomes part and parcel of the school report. That is important and is supported by teachers. In the same way that it is important to have an independent performance audit, we believe in the independence of the inspectorate. We believe we can put our hands up and say we are doing a good job because the inspectors are confirming that every year.

The whole pace of change which I outlined must be slowed down and managed because it is overwhelming at present. I seek the Minister's sympathy and support in that regard. The pace of change is too fast and teachers are being overwhelmed by a tidal wave of change. Teachers and school authorities cannot cope with the weight of new proposals. Schools will crash due to overload if this continues. If the process of change moves too fast, it will be ineffective.

I ask the Minister to note that I have not rejected any of the proposed changes. We are talking about the management of that change, to make sure it is implemented in a way with which everyone can be comfortable. That means determining the pace of change in a way that is acceptable. We need to manage change in a professional manner. We, as teachers, will embrace that positive change as long as it is introduced in a measured and agreed manner.

It must be accepted that everyone's work is changing these days. However, teachers must do much more than accept change, we must also manage, implement and evaluate it. Not only that, we also sometimes have to design the changed models. While we have not, at this point, claimed additional money for particular new duties, we believe we have given good value for the relatively small percentage increases we got in previous programmes and that the primary service has gained massively. There seems to be a lack of awareness of this. Teachers are of the view that an independent performance audit should be put in place so that everyone can see what is happening. That is hugely important.

We are now faced with another barrage of new duties, responsibilities and functions over the next five years. These are all good but will bring a huge new range of demands and will require resources. These arise from the introduction of the revised curriculum, which will be implemented over the next five years, the enactment of new education legislation this year and a large number of new proposals from the Department and the Minister on a regular basis.

It is reasonable to expect a reasonable reward for undertaking this massive turnaround. The INTO, as representatives of teachers, will be seeking a substantial increase for teachers from the benchmarking body under the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness. We will insist that body comes up with a decent percentage increase, which will reward the unparalleled contribution made by primary teachers to the design, management and implementation of a positive and progressive change in primary education.

I hope for the Minister's support in ensuring the changes can be managed effectively. The contribution of teachers must be recognised, appreciated and rewarded. I hope we can move forward in a consensus and partnership manner, as envisaged under the programme.

Mr. Norris

I have pleasure in seconding this important motion, introduced by my colleague, Senator O'Toole. This kind of debate justifies the existence of the Seanad and is precisely its intended function. The Seanad was intended to introduce special areas of expertise. It is a privi lege to sit in the House with the general secretary of the Irish National Teachers' Organisation because nobody could be better informed than he on this important area of primary education.

Primary education is the first building block of education. Without a good, firm basis in primary education, a child's subsequent education career can be seriously prejudiced. I will not confine myself to clichés, but I do not want to avoid them entirely because they often enshrine truth. The primary education system has played a very significant role in fitting us for dealing with the unusual degree of prosperity we are now enjoying, known as the Celtic tiger.

I welcome the terms of the motion. It is very important that we recognise the increasing demands on teachers and that we support them in introducing child abuse guidelines and sex education programmes. I am very glad we have nothing in this country along the lines of the infamous clause 28. I hope the full range of human sexuality will be encompassed in sex education programmes because 10% of children will subsequently turn out to be gay. It is very good to have a reinforcement of their identity at an early stage – I am not talking about propaganda – and an acknowledgement of their existence.

I hope to have time to talk about bullying – I do not mean the bullying of students by teachers but the serious issue of bullying of teachers by their colleagues and principals. I would draw the Minister's attention to the existence of Teachers Against Bullying, an important organisation that has been formed. I would appeal to him to establish, as a matter of urgency, an independent arbitrator in these matters because, too often, cases of bullying are referred to the board of management which is so clearly influenced by the principal.

Senator O'Toole has made an important point about the unprecedented degree of change that we are now experiencing in education. We must consider what is currently happening in schools and the vast amount of new information that is coming into the educational system daily. These changes include, as Senator O'Toole said, the introduction of a revised primary curriculum. Last September every primary teacher received a set of 23 documents, containing an introduction to the revised curriculum, 11 curriculum statements and 11 sets of teacher guidelines. When I discovered that, I was heartily glad that I had retired from teaching, although I did not teach at primary level.

I know exactly what happens, however, when one receives a flood of documentation on top of an already busy day, yet one is expected to absorb all these new ideas. I am very glad to be out of teaching but my heart goes out to people who have to cope with this new information on top of an already overloaded work schedule. Teachers have also been attending in-service training, trying to come to grips with the overall approach and change in emphasis in methodologies con tained in the curriculum. Therein there is also human strain.

It was the teachers themselves who saw the need for the revised curriculum and were actively involved in designing it. This gives it additional strength because it is not something that was imposed from outside, it was generated from the teachers' own experience. The resultant proposed content and pedagogy brings the curriculum in primary schools into line with modern European educational theory. In terms of pedagogy, we are ahead of our European neighbours, which is something in which we can take considerable pride.

I congratulate Senator O'Toole on wording the motion in such a way as to establish facts and understand the situation. He has sought to make that information available to the public and to the Department of Education and Science so that when the question of remuneration arises these factors can be properly considered. It is not bullying, blackmail or the usual trade union argy-bargy. The recompense for teachers will be paid on the basis of the factual information that is derived. That is why it is important for the Minister to give a commitment to initiate an independent performance audit. It is both remarkable and wonderful that teachers are calling for such a thing. Who could say that this would not be a useful instrument in gauging the outcome of wage negotiations?

Another exciting initiative which has the potential to change substantially the nature of classroom interaction and learning is the introduction of information and communication technology. On this occasion, I wish I was back in school. Despite the fact that I did some advertisements for the Internet superhighway, or whatever it is, I am ashamed to admit that I know absolutely sweet damn all about it. If I had known the kind of material that is contained on the Internet, including child pornography and how to make an atom bomb in your kitchen sink, I would have shut my 18th century drawing room window pretty damn quickly, and kept it out. I am not in any great danger from it, however, because I do not know anything about this technology, although I rather wish I did.

It is wonderful that young people at school are being given access to this skill which is necessary if we are to compete in the modern world. Primary teachers have welcomed and taken on this new tool. They have undertaken this responsibility by attending various courses in their own time and, in many cases, at their own expense. I commend them on having done so because they have shown initiative. They have not resisted the introduction of new technology in a Luddite fashion, as I might have been tempted to do. They have welcomed it and have used their own time and financial resources to familiarise themselves with it in order to pass on the new expertise to the young people in their charge.

They are using this new technology to share ideas with each other via the Internet. They have subscribed to mailing lists comprising special interest groups and are sharing lesson plans, new ideas and approaches. Teachers have involved themselves in software evaluation and review. Primary teachers have been to the forefront in recognising the potential of modern technology for increasing the quality of learning experience for children with special needs. We all feel strongly about the requirement to help to bring such children up to speed by whatever additional methodology available.

Primary teachers are now providing a guiding and helping hand in showing all children the potential of information technology for conducting different types of investment in the classroom. New approaches to teaching are reinforcing many aspects of the three Rs which, if I remember correctly, were reading, 'riting and 'rithmetic – or, as Lewis Carroll said, "reeling and rising and fainting uncoiled".

These approaches have expanded beyond the three Rs into critical thinking, contact with other cultures and e-mail. I was delighted to hear Senator O'Toole refer to the teaching of modern European languages because when I was at school all we got was a smattering of Irish.

Other demands being made on teachers arise from the changing nature of modern society. There are increasing demands for transparency and accountability across all sectors. The implication of such accountability for schools is tremendous. Teachers will be involved in implementing the legislative demands of the Education Act and the new Education Welfare Bill and, consequently, schools will need to be proactive in formulating enrolment policies, codes of discipline and planning whole-school curricular approaches.

Primary teachers are also being proactive in teaching children about coping with the demands of modern society, educating them about the danger of drugs, introducing the Stay Safe programme and teaching them about relationships and sexuality.

What about the children themselves? Nowadays, children have so much presented to them in the form of exciting technology, television images, video, cinema and Imax, and teachers have to compete with all this. They must be increasingly colourful and attention-grabbing for children as they are competing with an entire entertainment networking system that sets a standard by which children will judge them. In such circumstances children will become easily bored. Nonetheless, teachers have a huge influence on their pupils and the impact they make will last children's whole lives.

It is critically important that the public is kept abreast of what is happening in schools. They must be made aware of the degree of change that has been taking place and with which teachers are required to cope. This can best be done through the alternating process which Senator O'Toole has advanced in this motion, which I am happy to support.

Minister for Education and Science (Dr. Woods)

I am glad to have this opportunity to address Seanad Éireann and to put on the record my recognition of the immense contribution made by the teaching profession to the development of the education system. The economy and our society are currently experiencing success on a scale never before experienced. This success is due in no small part to the quality of our education system and the hard work of our teachers. When I am asked about this success I say that its two key elements are social partnership and education.

Young people are being presented with opportunities in education and in the economy which were not available to their parents and grandparents. However, Irish people are also facing challenges to grasp the opportunities presented and, based on past successes, to continue to build even greater success in the future.

Grasping the opportunities and facing the challenges also means change and it is clear that in recent years the economy and society generally have faced, and continue to face, unprecedented levels of change. These changes in the economy and society are mirrored in the education system and, indeed, in individual schools. It is in this context of change that teachers are called upon to play a vital part in preparing our children for the many and varied challenges that the new millennium will continue to bring.

Changes in the education system have one overriding objective, to improve the quality of the education provided to students and their parents and, at the same time, to improve the way in which teachers are enabled to do their jobs. Irish teachers are highly regarded and the profession continues to attract people of high calibre and commitment.

There is no doubt that the quality, morale and status of the teaching profession are of central importance to the continuing development of a first class education system in the decades ahead. However, the idea of change sometimes causes concern for people. Teachers, like everyone else, must be given the necessary supports to tackle their changing environments and do their jobs more effectively than ever before.

As Minister, I will do my best to ensure that the changes which I bring into effect in the education system improve the quality of the education provided and, and at the same time, improve the manner in which teachers are enabled to do their jobs. In this context, I reaffirm my commitment to support teachers as together we face the challenges of a continually changing education system.

Partnership is the key to developments in the education system and it will be my watchword as Minister. The partnership which has been an effective part of all education developments in recent years received statutory underpinning in the Education Act. Teachers played no small part in the process of consultation leading up to the enactment of the Act and, as I have said several times since becoming Minister, I look forward with confidence to continued partnership with the teaching profession as, together with the other partners, we continue with the implementation of the remaining provisions of the Act.

More generally, social partnership, in the form of national partnership agreements, has been vital to the economic success and increasing social cohesion of recent years. Partnership for the future is consolidated in the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness. It will confer substantial benefits on society and the economy in general and on the education system in particular. PPF will maintain our international competitiveness through policies that encourage enterprise and investment, ensure that those in work have a fair share in our increased national prosperity, substantially increase the resources allocated to social inclusion and enable us to become a learning, knowledge-based society, with the capacity to embrace with confidence the opportunities offered by technological change.

PPF means many things for teachers. It means modernisation, including school development planning and school self review. It also means further development of the system of lifelong learning, whether formal or informal, with the aim of improving knowledge and skills and promoting personal fulfilment. In addition to wage increases, it includes specific commitments to improvements throughout the system, from early childhood to adult and continuing education. As far as teachers are concerned, it includes improvements in school staffing, improvements in class size in the early years and throughout the system, enhancement of the home, school and community liaison and remedial services, continued expansion and development of the national educational psychological service, establishment of a national educational welfare service, implementation of an integrated plan to tackle educational disadvantage and further strengthening of the educational guidance service in schools. PPF also includes the provision of a further 1,500 teaching posts, in addition to the 1,000 additional posts announced in December 1999. Some 900 of these posts will be allocated to primary schools.

Other issues covered in PPF include the implementation of the priority recommendations of the report of the working group on the role of the primary principal, the provision of additional resources to develop a comprehensive support service for assessment and delivery of special needs education, enhanced staff development programmes and specific initiatives to enhance the science, technology and language dimensions of provision. All in all, Members will agree that the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness represents a good deal for the education system and for teachers.

Before commenting further on the PPF, however, I will speak on the achievements of recent months working with the teaching profession and the other partners in the system. The past year has witnessed a very substantial increase in investment in education at all levels. This has meant that many pressing issues have now been addressed successfully. Since taking office my essential approach has been to move quickly and purposefully, and in consultation with the partners, with a view to effecting lasting improvements across a wide spectrum of concerns. I intend to continue this approach during my time as Minister, confident that it is the approach most likely to yield success.

I already mentioned the Education Act, which together with several other important pieces of legislation, most notably the Education (Welfare) Bill and the Teaching Council Bill, will provide an important statutory underpinning for the education system. Teachers have acknowledged the importance of this legislative base and have worked with my Department in bringing this important legislation to fruition.

Legislation, although vital, is not enough. The principles embodied in legislation must be given practical expression through the allocation of the appropriate resources. This Government's commitment to investment in primary education is given clear expression in the programme for Government and since we took office in 1997 we have more than delivered on this commitment. Over that period, the funding for primary buildings and renovations has risen three-fold, from £27 million to over £80 million per annum. Under the national development plan, we propose to spend £413 million on primary school buildings over the period to 2006. Also since 1997, the capitation grant has been increased by £15 and a further increase of £11 per pupil will follow in the next school year, representing a total increase of over 60% over the period.

As Members may be aware, I recently announced a £9 million additional annual allocation for caretaking and secretarial services in primary schools. The additional £9 million annual allocation will be used to bring the grant for schools of 100 pupils and more up to £40 per pupil with immediate effect. Schools of below 100 pupils will, from January next, receive such payments for the first time. The rate of grant will also be £40 per pupil with a minimum grant of £2,400. I hope to make further improvements in this area.

Our support of the primary education system cannot, and does not, end with the provision of buildings and support services. Vital to the continuing success of our schools is a high level of resourcing to underpin the work in the classroom. The introduction of the revised primary curriculum is a crucial element of developments at primary level over the medium term. This curriculum, which has emerged following a process of development spanning almost a decade, involving all of the partners in education, provides a clear focus for change and renewal in our schools for the years ahead. The challenge now, of course, is to ensure that the revised curriculum is implemented in classrooms as soon as possible.

I am aware that changes in curriculum and assessment demand appropriate professional development opportunities for teachers, so that they can become the most sophisticated leaders of learning in their schools and classrooms. For this reason we have arranged the most comprehensive in-career development programme for primary teachers undertaken since the foundation of the State. Teachers need not doubt my commitment to the success of the revised curriculum.

In addition to the programme of in-career development, I have provided considerable financial aid for schools to enable them to acquire equipment for the teaching of science. I have also strengthened the initiative to promote school development planning, a process which will assist schools as they carry out their work. Guidelines on the process of planning have been distributed to all primary schools and a support team has been established. Grants have been paid to nearly 500 schools to aid them in addressing their planning needs.

I have a deep committment to the education of our youngest children and have resolved to direct considerable resources to support this phase of child development. Government policy in this most important area was set out in the White Paper, Ready to Learn. Planning for the implementation of Ready to Learn is under way in my Department. Officials of my Department are currently involved in an extensive process of consultation with the partners concerning implementation.

Teachers will make growing use of computer technology in the delivery of the revised curriculum. It is nearly two years since we launched Schools IT 2000 and in that time very substantial progress has been made. By now every school has access to the Internet and all schools have received direct funding for equipment and ancillary equipment and, in addition, more than 20,000 teachers have participated in training courses funded by the IT 2000 programme.

In response to the success of the programme to date, £81 million is being made available over the next three years for a new and greatly expanded programme. This will include a series of ambitious targets – every individual classroom will be connected to the Internet with high speed access, the ratio of computers to pupils will be significantly increased, Ireland's teachers will have the most comprehensive ongoing training programme in the world available to them and Ireland will use technology to implement the most advanced curriculum support programme in the world. The funding will be £20 million in capital funding and £7 million in current funding per annum. This will bring the Government's funding for this area to over £121 million for its five year period and I am confident that this investment will pay rich dividends in due course.

Members will be aware that in January we launched the first ever initiative to improve reading standards. My aim is to raise awareness of the importance of reading among the public in general and, in conjunction with this, to improve the quality of the teaching of reading in all settings. I have appointed a national co-ordinator to oversee the initiative and £2.5 million has been provided for the project this year.

To assist teachers as they go about their work of improving literacy and numeracy standards, I am continuing to develop the remedial service and I am glad to inform the House that every primary school now has access to a remedial resource. Issues remain to be addressed so that we can derive maximum benefit from the service. I confirm my intention to pursue these issues as quickly as possible.

One of the most significant improvements we have made over the past year, and one of which I am very proud, is the introduction of a series of automatic supports for children with disabilities. In a further development in this area, funding has been approved for escorts and for the acquisition of safety harnesses for special needs children who travel to school by bus. There are other areas of special needs that still need to be addressed more comprehensively and I assure Members that I propose to pursue developments in this area urgently and systematically.

I referred to the important changes that are occurring in the education system to improve the quality of education provided for students and their parents and, at the same time, to improve the way in which teachers are enabled to do their jobs. I have also outlined the many ways in which the Government is providing significant resources, including staffing, training and financial resources, to enable teachers and the other partners to play their role in the introduction of these changes. I am anxious these changes are managed properly and introduced successfully. Senators will know that I have made tackling disadvantage a priority while I am Minister.

This process involves constant monitoring to try to ensure that changes are made over an appropriate timescale and are supported by both resources and commitment. In relation to pay determination Senators will be aware of the structures, both existing and planned, to deal with such matters and will agree that we should respect the integrity of those structures and the procedures which they establish. In this regard it is partic ularly notable that the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness provides for the setting up of a public service benchmarking body to examine public service pay and jobs, including those of teachers. The programme envisages that unions will have the opportunity of having an input into the work of the public service benchmarking body. It is important that we do not embark on exercises which would pre-empt the work of that body.

In relation to public awareness of what is happening in primary schools, my view is even more positive than that implied in the motion. There is widespread appreciation in this country of the great work being done in our primary schools. Regarding what Senator O'Toole said, this may not appear in the newspapers, but that work is respected among communities on the ground. Senators have suggested a performance audit of primary education. I have indicated that we must be careful not to pre-empt the work of the public service benchmarking body, but I am also aware of the concern among primary school teachers that change and the pace of implementation of change should be managed in such a way as to ensure that the process achieves what we all want, to improve the quality of education provided to our students. Accordingly, I propose to put in place an audit and examination of the process of implementation of change in the primary school system. Various models for such an examination could be pursued and I would be glad to consider the views of Senators in the matter.

I acknowledge again the substantial contribution the teaching profession has made to primary education in Ireland. The standards of achievement and the quality of work of our schools and colleges are widely recognised and have played no little part in bringing about the present favourable climate. The Government has given us valuable additional funding and resources and I intend to use them well in the interests of the nation's children.

Mr. Manning

I welcome the Minister and wish him well in his new Department. I compliment Senator O'Toole on this motion. It is both unusual and timely and strikes a necessary chord. I hope it initiates a much needed public debate.

In one sense there is something defensive about the motion which reflects the current mood. It is strange to have a debate wherein the teaching profession is not so much apologising but justifying its existence. There was a time when being a teacher was in itself a badge of honour and I believe it still is. Teaching always has been and always will be one of the most worthwhile and noble professions. Good educators are among the most precious assets any society can have and a society which does not value its teachers will pay a heavy price both in the short and long term. As Senator Norris said, in some ways what we are saying is a cliché and a repetition of old truths. However, it is none the less true for that and we can sometimes make the biggest mistakes by ignoring the most obvious truths.

A few years ago we would not have had a debate such as this. I am glad the Minister has responded to Senator O'Toole's proposal so positively and that he has left the way open for discussions on the form of the audit. I compliment the Minister on his actions, but I would not be as sanguine as he is regarding the perception of the teaching profession or morale in that profession. It is clear to any observer that the teaching profession is going through a period of crisis at all levels. There is a perception among teachers of hostility towards them and towards what they are doing and of scepticism about the value of their contribution to society. There is also a degree of self-doubt among teachers which did not exist in the past and which is very disturbing. They doubt the value of what they are doing and whether it is being appreciated. One hears of teachers saying they would not advise their own children to enter teaching and of young teachers being almost ashamed to admit to being teachers when asked what they do. I have heard these statements being made and hope they are isolated, but nonetheless this is a crisis.

This motion is important because it gives the lie to teachers' self-doubting image. Senator O'Toole outlined the extraordinary changes which have occurred in teaching and the huge challenges which are being added to teachers' responsibilities. Disciplinary problems and intrusive and badly informed parents make life difficult for teachers. Teachers must now deal with problems such as litigation which never existed in the past and, in some cases, they can be exploited. They must deal with a range of issues such as substance abuse, sex education, civics and citizenship and they must often compensate for what children do not receive at home or in the wider society. They must also come to terms with the full implications of the IT revolution.

There was never a more difficult time to be a teacher. That is why I find it strange that people do not hold the job teachers do in higher esteem. If this audit becomes a reality and the Minister does what he has agreed to do, we will then have some empirical, independent and objective evidence which will inform the public of what the teaching profession does.

There is one issue in regard to which I am desperately critical of teachers. Teachers' conferences do huge damage to the image of the teaching profession every year and, if it were up to me, I would abolish them. The conferences were initially held for good reasons but they have now become large media events. Three or four disgruntled sound bites can set the tone for the entire week. The public see head-bangers let loose on platforms at these conferences and hear the collective whinge which rises from their midst. There is a sense of "us against the world". The public see people who almost seem to be involved in their own sense of apartheid, people set apart from the rest of society. What happens at these conferences is utterly at variance with the attitude of the majority of teachers throughout the country and, indeed, with the majority of teachers who attend the conferences. However, we live in a media world in which dissent and disruption make the headlines while the diligent work of the majority of delegates does not receive any coverage. The impression created by these conferences does immense harm to the collective image of the teaching profession and that is very unfair to the majority of teachers. I urge teachers' leaders to find another way to do their democratic business.

Senator O'Toole's proposal is practical and timely. There is a need to restore teachers' self-confidence and to allow members of the public to assess teachers as the people they meet on a daily basis, people with whom they interact in their schools and who are leaders in their local communities. Teachers are genuine patriots who make a very positive contribution to society and only ask to be regarded as complete citizens who do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Teachers merely want to get on with their work in a challenging, difficult and highly pressurised profession.

Teachers pass on the values of our society. In many cases, particularly in cases of family breakdown, teachers do the work which, through nobody's fault in particular, is not being done in the students' homes. Teachers work in the most deprived areas of our cities and towns and receive little thanks for their efforts. It is time the wider society recognised the value of the work teachers do and recorded their thanks and appreciation for that. This motion represents the start of that process.

Ms Ormonde

I welcome the Minister and wish him well with his new portfolio. I look forward to working with him in regard to any initiatives he may introduce in the area of education. I welcome this timely motion and assure Senator O'Toole that we will not oppose it on this side of the House.

Senator O'Toole referred to the many changes which are occurring in the area of education. It might be useful to consider the nature of these changes and examine the manner in which primary school teachers are dealing with them. We have the revised curriculum, changes in science programmes, new modern language programmes, intensive career programmes for teachers and the expansion of computer technology. We have the Education Act, 1998, most of the provisions of which have already been implemented and they will all be completed by the end of the year. We also have the Education (Welfare) Bill and substantial increases in the school building and capit ation grants. However, nobody apart from teachers is aware of these changes.

The huge workload which teachers carry is never spoken about outside the teaching profession. The motion refers to the need to recognise the ever increasing demands placed on teachers by developments such as performance management, new codes of discipline, anti-drugs programmes, child abuse guidelines, sex education programmes and new systems of teacher accountability and school evaluation. If one considers the problem of discipline in the light of the various family models which currently exist, not alone must a teacher teach in the classroom, he or she must also deal with parents who come into the school to discuss problems which may have arisen at home. Teachers must act as counsellors, carers, educators and administrators and they must also be familiar with the communities in which they teach. They are to be congratulated on the huge workload they carry. I do not know whether the previous generation of teachers would have been able to cope with the changes which have occurred as well as the current generation has.

Members of the public are not aware of the workload teachers undertake. If a pay increase for teachers is suggested, people point to the holidays teachers receive. They are hung up on teachers having six weeks, two months or three months holidays. Nobody seems to consider the workload involved in teaching from nine o'clock in the morning until four o'clock in the afternoon. Teachers are often involved in extra-curricular activities which see them becoming involved in the social activities of their communities.

Teachers' work must be acknowledged. A public relations campaign should be undertaken to familiarise the public with that work. The Minister stated that a body will be established to monitor public service pay. This will encompass teachers' conditions of work and will ensure they are kept within the terms of the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness.

Major improvements are occurring in the world of education and it is a busy time for everyone. I acknowledge the work being done by teachers. I congratulate the Minister and his predecessor for being aware of educational improvements. However, we have a great deal more to do which can only be achieved by working together to acknowledge the work of teachers. We must inform the public that teachers are doing a superb job and they play a significant role in towns and villages throughout Ireland. I congratulate the teachers. We will help them move forward, but within the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness. I ask the unions to negotiate. They will have the support of all of us in the House who acknowledge their work.

Mr. McDonagh

I support the motion tabled by Senators O'Toole and Norris. I speak as a teacher and a parent. The greatest endorsement I can give to the motion is that I spent 21 years as a teacher. I am currently the adult education organiser for County Galway VEC. I have tremendous respect for my boss, Mr. Conor Morris, who is about to retire and it is appropriate that I thank him for his enormous contribution to the development of education in Galway. I wish him well in his retirement. He has had many great achievements, particularly the outdoor education centre at Petersburg in Clonbur. However, much as I respect Mr. Morris, if he asked me to return to the classroom next Monday, I would have to decline because I realise the tremendous pressure on teachers which increases as the years go by.

I am most familiar with primary schools in County Galway. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, who will also be familiar with these schools. These are two, three and four teacher schools and the teachers in these schools take two or three classes together which means their attention is always divided. There are no remedial teachers or counsellors in many of these schools. In the majority of cases there are no caretakers or secretarial assistants to take telephone calls, deal with the post or fill out forms. As someone said to me recently, if their school was not careful, they would be drowned in literature. It is frightening that not only do teachers have to take their classes but they must also deal with forms, statistics and so on.

I am on the board of management of Lackagh national school, where one of my children still attends, and I see how teachers are involved in fund-raising, organising dances, Christmas concerts, sending circulars and dealing with parents on a daily basis. Teachers do this in their free time and with goodwill. There is no back up service for national teachers in the majority of cases. It is unfortunate that when our economy is booming and a huge amount of money is available, which is wonderful, the majority of national schools rely on community employment schemes for assistance. It is a bonus if a national school is granted a caretaker, a classroom assistant or a part-time secretary. In this day and age, it is unfortunate that we rely on schemes which could be phased out at any time. Teachers in national schools throughout the country have nothing.

In recent times, Uachtarán Chumann Lúthchleas Gael, Joe McDonagh, visited the schools of Galway and Connacht. As the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, knows, Joe McDonagh has been one of the greatest presidents of the GAA in the history of this great association. He visited the schools to meet the children but also to take the opportunity to pay tribute to the huge contribution of national school teachers to the development of gaelic games. They have moulded young people at a time in their lives when they can become involved in nefarious activities. It is wonderful to see young people involved in meaningful and fulfilling activities such as hurling, foot ball, handball, soccer, rugby and so on. The President of the GAA, Seosamh Mac Donncha, was loud in his praise of the enormous contribution made by primary schools to the development of the character of our young people.

This motion outlines what should be happening. There should be more recognition of and respect and remuneration for teachers involved in shaping the minds of our young people. It is getting harder to bring discipline into the classroom and parents are becoming more demanding. Senator O'Toole, in tabling this motion, is hoping to confirm the extraordinary activity taking place and that the trust and confidence of the community can be reinforced, so that this vital data can also be made available to those who are charged with determining the rewards, remuneration and career structure of teachers.

Speaking as a parent and a teacher, this is an excellent motion. From my experience as a teacher and a member of the board of management of the magnificent Lackagh national school in County Galway, where we have four excellent teachers led by the manager of Galway hurling board, Mattie Murphy, I support the teachers of this country.

I have four children and I will advise them not to enter the teaching profession as it is stressful and difficult.

Mr. Treacy

What about politics?

Mr. McDonagh

Perhaps politics is worse. Teaching is a difficult profession and back-up services do not exist. It is unfortunate that recently some journalists, particularly those writing for Sunday newspapers, have denigrated the teaching profession. I do not think they are au fait with the enormous amount of work being done in national schools. I pay tribute to Senator O'Toole for the work he is doing to promote his organisation. I support the motion.

Miss Quill

Mar a dúirt an Piarsach, is iontach an gairmbheatha an múinteoireacht mar is fút féin a bhíonn intinn an linbh a bhualadh agus a fhíorú. There was a time when teachers were highly valued and respected in communities. That was a time when people had the vision of education that Pearse so eloquently summed up, when people had a different sense of values. Unfortunately, teachers do not occupy the same place in the public estimation now as they did then. For that reason, among others, I am pleased that Senator O'Toole and his colleagues tabled this motion.

There is currently a strange dichotomy. Everybody who is present at the opening of a new factory or industry or the expansion of an existing one says that job generating investment comes to Ireland for a number of reasons, first among which is the excellence of our system of education and of the products of that system. Last night on the main news bulletin on RTÉ there was an item in connection with the announcement of new jobs in Clondalkin in which an industrialist, asked why Ireland had won a particular industry against other competing countries, answered that it was because of the excellence of our standard of education. There is that on the one hand and, on the other, constant sniping at teachers from some quarters. It has become almost habitual nowadays among people who are incapable of reflecting on the contribution that teachers make to the well-being of this country. Perhaps they do not particularly want to reflect on this. If there is any school above any other that ought to be subjected to some kind of critical examination, it is the school of journalism. I sometimes wonder whether some of today's young journalists are capable of being positive or constructive about anything. That does not apply to all journalists.

Is it not rather strange that on the one hand we value education so much and, on the other, we do not always value those who deliver that system of education? Yeats in a famous poem posed the question: "How do you know the dancer from the dance?" I ask how does one know the excellence of our system of education from the people who deliver the service. It is important that we should think rationally on these issues and that we should seek to foster a culture where teachers and their contribution is valued. For that reason, I am particularly happy to support this motion.

Young people grow up conscious of how their community views its teachers. They pick up attitudes and values from all sources. If they are given to understand that teachers are not very important and do not have a great input into their development, that is the attitude they will bring to school with them. That is damning, because if learning is to fruitful, it has to be a collaborative effort between students and teachers, between teachers and parents. Learning happens best when those three elements resonate and are working in tune with one another. If there is undermining, that has an adverse effect. That is something all of us in this House would seek to eliminate from our society.

There is no point in saying glowing things about teachers if we do not fight for the level of investment that will enable every teacher to attain his or her full potential. The number of newly emerging demands we as a society have put on the teaching body in recent times is mind-boggling when one sees them written down in one paragraph. Because it has happened incrementally, we do not always realise the extent of it. Now that it is all put down here, it is time for us to stop and think and ask ourselves how any workforce can be asked to meet all those wide-ranging and disparate demands at one and the same time.

We must have ongoing investment in in-service training. It is grossly unfair to make all these additional demands on teachers if we do not have a coherent system of in-service training for them. That was grossly lacking within the educational system in all the years I taught, which was until 1987. It was somehow assumed that whatever training teachers got ab initio was enough to keep them going until the day they received the clock. That is part of the reason there is so much stress among teachers. There is not enough investment in ongoing in-service training whereby teachers can have access to programmes to update and upgrade their teaching skills and their methodology, so that they can link into all the new concepts being imposed upon them and feel on top of the new demands at every level. If that were done, there would be a great deal less stress in education. The key point is much more investment in in-service education for teachers.

There is a great need for more teacher supports by way of classroom aids and the range of supports mentioned by Senator McDonagh. A school without a school secretary is equivalent to a school that has lost a teacher, so central is a good school secretary to the working of a school.

I am happy to support the spirit and the essence of this motion. If we want to retain and maintain excellence in our teaching body we have to make the investment, if for no other reason than what has happened in countries were teachers have been undervalued, underpaid and under-trained. I do not particularly want to list them. This is a country with a proud tradition of valuing education. We did it when times were bad. For heaven's sake let it not be said that we are not prepared to do it now.

Dr. Henry

I have great pleasure in supporting Senator O'Toole's motion. I worked as a supply teacher in primary schools at one stage. The only thing that may trouble them is that I am going to ask them for even more. There is not enough public awareness of the role teachers play at community level. There is a lack of awareness of all that is happening in our primary schools. I welcome the fact that Senator O'Toole's motion asks that the Minister for Education and Science initiate an independent performance audit of primary education. This is very important.

In the past, primary schools were extremely important as a focus for the health of the child. In our more affluent society, this role has been somewhat downgraded. The fact that we are now having to make such a serious attempt at a measles vaccination campaign is phenomenal evidence of the slowing down of the influence of schools in relation to health vaccination programmes.

In America, as I am sure the Cathaoirleach will be aware, it is a requirement that one produces vaccination certificates before one gets into primary school. I do not want to make it mandatory in Ireland because we have been extraordinarily good in the past at getting parents to bring their children forward for vaccination, but various court cases and stories in the media, some of which have not been well researched or very accurate, have made parents reluctant to bring their children for vaccination. Then one arrives at a situation such as that which exists at present where among children of school age there is a serious epidemic of measles, which still causes death, although people do not seem to realise that, and which certainly causes great disability. We are in the middle of a programme of vaccination at present because of the lack of vaccination of younger children for measles.

I suggest that primary schools will have to be used as a more effective way of getting leaflets to parents who already have children in schools. I apologise to Senator O'Toole, if this places a greater onus on national school teachers who I realise have plenty to do, but we must return to the way things were. Primary schools used be the only centre for sight testing, dental check-ups and every such matter. We have gone beyond that now but in view of the fact that we have got into such a serious mess regarding measles vaccination, perhaps we should look at that again. This places another onus on teachers but that cannot be helped.

Another area which we must look at again in terms of primary school teachers is exercise. It is appallingly depressing to see the standard of fitness among primary school children in terms of the European league – Ireland is well below the middle of that league. That should not be the case in a country such as this. Again I must ask the primary teachers to come forward because I do not know who else will do so.

I have experience of what primary school teachers have done in other areas which are important in medicine. For example, as one of those instrumental in setting up the sexual assault unit in the Rotunda Hospital about 15 years ago, I will never forget that we thought it would deal with adult rape cases which we thought would be an occasional occurrence. Within six weeks the unit was flooded with teachers bringing in children. This was not because this was a new problem in Ireland but because previously teachers had nowhere to bring these children. When the unit started there were primary school teachers arriving on an incredibly regular basis with children, boys up to the ages of 12 and 14, because there had been nowhere else to bring them. The situation was so serious that we ended up having to open units in Temple Street and Crumlin hospitals. Of course the sexual assault units have expanded since.

The House debated Report Stage of the Statute of Limitations (Amendment) Bill, 1998, this morning and so sad about the many representations I received was that the children were in very enclosed institutions where they did not have the person of last resort, the primary school teacher who might have been able to do some thing, to talk to. None of us will forget the McColgan case, where the primary school teacher as well as the general practitioner and the school doctor in the area were ignored for so long. Therefore, primary school teachers have serious duties. I do not like to say that they are other than duties because that is what they are, although I do not think they form part of their job description. We must take this into account and I would like to see this independent forum look at this matter. Social education of so many children in Ireland, particularly in the more deprived areas, is the responsibility of the primary school teacher, and the public is not sufficiently aware of this.

Local drugs task forces are the response to the drugs problem in Dublin. Indeed, I have great admiration for the former Minister of State, Deputy Flood, who had responsibility in this area, and for the new Minister of State, Deputy Eoin Ryan, in what they are trying to do, but teachers are not sufficiently involved in this area. They are not involved in the various strategy teams which liaise with the Department of Education and Science. When local expertise is required, it is the local GPs and pharmacists who are consulted. While these are important people, I suggest that those who are involved in the local drugs task forces must have greater consultation with primary teachers. As somebody who deals with drug addicts on an ongoing basis, I know that unfortunately it is at primary school age that quite a number of children who become heroin addicts become involved in the drug culture.

I compliment Senator O'Toole on tabling this motion. I regret that I am asking primary school teachers to do even more but I am sure they will rise to the task. I suggest that this independent body assess what they do because monitoring is always extraordinarily important.

Mr. Kett

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Science, Deputy Treacy, to the House. At a time when we are talking about schools, I well remember sitting beside him in secondary school many years ago. I congratulate the Minister, Deputy Woods, on his new appointment and look forward to debating many issues with him over the next couple of years.

I welcome Senator O'Toole's motion. It gives us the opportunity to recognise the great work which has been done by teachers for many years. It is a long-standing and deeply held belief in Ireland that education is the key to access and opportunity. Even in the darkest times of immigration, when many of our children were leaving these shores, we could be happy that at least they were leaving with the guarantee of personal success in that they had received a good education.

The education system has played a major part in the development of Ireland. It is a rapidly changing area. New technology today will be old hat tomorrow and I imagine that will continue to be the case in the future. It is essential, therefore, that the education system changes with requirements. Not only should it move with the changes, but it should also play a leading role in bringing about those changes.

Today we face a major challenge in developing education needs. We are also faced with the challenge of educating the people who will be charged with the responsibility of bringing about those changes initially. While we can justifiably rejoice in many of the achievements in the changed curriculum and the greatly increased participation together with the special measures to alleviate the obvious deprivation and distress, there is still a long way to go in that regard.

When a child is born it may appear that he or she can look forward to equal opportunity, equal access and equal preference. That is certainly what the authors of the Easter proclamation had in mind. The message to us is clear, we must show clear leadership and determination in this regard because there is a rapidly growing population whose knowledge is being tested on a daily basis and who need to be well educated to meet the requirements which will be expected of them.

The education system has done a wonderful job to date, mostly with scarce resources. If we can say that we provided a good education system on scarce resources, in such times of plenty we should be in a position, even though there are clearly greater demands nowadays, to move ahead and bring about a greater educational force.

Teachers have played a pivotal role in bringing about advancement, not least in the primary education system where the seeds are sown at a very early stage. The shaping of a student takes place at primary level and from there one can move forward towards the development of a rounded student.

The motion suggests there are greater demands being placed on teachers, something which is beyond doubt and which must be recognised. The curriculum is now much wider and teachers must be rewarded in this regard. However, some teachers are going off half-cocked with wild notions as to their worth. They should leave such matters to people such as Senator O'Toole who is charged with the responsibility in some respects of fighting their corner. He and people like him are best equipped to fight the corner for teachers. If teachers continue to scream out loud the public will not respond sympathetically. If one debates the needs of a distressed teacher with a man in the street who is working 12 hours a day one will quickly be told to go to hell, that the man in the street is working 12 hours per day and that teachers work from 9.00 a.m. until 2.30 p.m. and have three months holidays. We know this is not true, but that is the perception, which is why people such as Senator O'Toole must be left with the responsibility of presenting the case of teachers and securing a fair and equitable position for them.

The quality of primary education has proved to be one of the key pillars through which the education system has supported the development of the country, something of which teachers and those associated with the education system should be proud. However, there is more to be done in mainstream primary education and in the area of special needs. Like health and unemployment, education does not take place in a social or political vacuum. It is about real circumstances and real people and the time for early intervention is when a child is born, with the child's parents being involved in a decisive programme of action in the community which is followed through in play school. Major investment must be put in place for pre-school activities involving parents and children. It is only through such a co-ordinated action programme that genuine and long-lasting benefits can accrue.

We accept that spending £10,000 at this level could very well prevent a spend of £30,000 down the road in keeping a person in Mountjoy, or a spend of £70,000 on keeping a person in a juvenile detention centre. Wiser heads should prevail and we should realise that money spent at an early age in a child's development will pay dividends.

An investment in young parents and their children, which combines a comprehensive programme of education and socialisation for both, will bear ample fruit, particularly in marginalised and beleaguered communities. This investment must be continued in play-school and crèches in preparing children for their formal education. We need a greatly increased budget for pre-school services and we must involve people in the community in the provision of such services.

We should no longer tolerate children leaving school either illiterate or innumerate. I was delighted that the Minister said he would channel his own efforts in that regard. He also referred to disability and the amounts of money spent on escorts on buses, etc. The school with which I work has benefited greatly from such funding.

Our teachers should be at the cutting edge of any change which takes place in future, as they have been in the past. The suggestion in the motion that their situation needs to be reinforced within communities is not necessary as teachers have been and will continue to be well regarded in communities.

Mr. Ryan

It would be a foolish person who would oppose this motion, but Senator O'Toole is being a little naughty in referring only to primary teachers. He may well have his reasons for doing so—

Mr. O'Toole

It is because the others get upset when I speak on their behalf. However, I wish to be inclusive.

Mr. Treacy

The Senator is an inclusive thinker.

Mr. Ryan

Much of what Senator O'Toole said applies to all sectors of education.

About 16 years ago the first of my children started in primary school and 12 and ten years ago, respectively, the other two children started. They all went to the same two local national schools – one boys' school and one girls' school – both of which were classified by the Department as disadvantaged. One could not but be in awe at the quality of what was done in those schools. I had my grumbles – Members would be surprised if it was otherwise as it seems to be in my nature – but the overall quality of the work of those teachers in terms of vision and imagination left one in awe. These were not all young thrusting people full of idealism, contrary to the myth of those who become tired, disillusioned and fed up. In many cases they were middle-aged teachers whose enthusiasm seemed undiluted.

I served on the board of management of one of the schools for a few years during my temporary absence from the House when I had time to do a few other things. I was appalled at the budgets within which schools have to operate and the incredibly short supply of funds. I was also amazed by the levels of bureaucracy involved in achieving the most minuscule change in the school infrastructure. I suspect the cost of human resource hours involved in the determination of whether £1,000 could be spent was probably well in excess of the cash value of the funding. I know that has changed – it changed while I was on the board – but the contrast between teaching resources and other kinds of resources is one of the indictments of the way we fund primary education.

The issue which arises in a debate such as this is change. There is a degree to which there is a one or two dimensional view of change in society, namely, that change is a characteristic of the thrusting enterprise sector and that resistance to change is a characteristic of the public sector. Many speeches made by senior Members of this and previous Governments are testimony to this belief. However, the reality is completely different. This morning I was at a committee meeting at which it was admitted that about 60% of Irish businesses have not sorted out what they will do about the euro, the introduction of which is only a year and a half away. Everybody in the public sector has thought about the euro and teachers, among others, are trying to come to terms with it in their school work.

Teachers have led change and have been frustrated by the pace of change. They serve on curriculum committees for every subject. Teachers do not hold up work. They have always reasonably asked that resources should be commensur ate with the change needed, not that change should be held back. If I and everybody else working in the technological sector of education had waited for the Department of Education and Science to put pressure on us to change, we would still be using a slide rule. Every change in this sector in terms of information technology and innovation in teaching occurred because people wanted to change and the biggest obstacle to change was usually the Department. The image of Governments vibrantly demanding change and workers in the education sector holding it back has no basis. The obstacle to change is the lack of vision at the top, not the behaviour at the bottom.

All sectors of education have fostered, embraced and encouraged change but the recognition and resourcing of such change has always taken place on the assumption that people would do it cheaply. That is why the ideas that are floating around about change are entirely wrong. The Minister of State has special responsibility for science policy, yet the Government has done a remarkable job of ignoring certain sectors of education in terms of recognition and appreciation of work done. I do not want to set one sector of third level education against another. Universities have been consistently underfunded and have performed remarkably well, but I come from a different sector, technological education. That sector is so widely recognised by the Department that it does not have one representative on the Council for Science, Technology and Innovation, which advises the Government in this area.

Mr. Treacy

Which sector?

Mr. Ryan

Technological education. The Dublin Institute of Technology, which does not want to be in the sector and desires university status, is represented but the rest of the sector, which educates the majority of people studying science and technology in this State, is not deemed to be sufficiently capable to be represented on the council.

Mr. Treacy

There was not even a second level teacher on the council until I was appointed.

Mr. Ryan

That only compounds the issue.

Mr. Treacy

Not at all.

Mr. Ryan

One individual from the polymer science department in Athlone Institute of Technology is on the technological foresight working group, which was set up by the Minister of State, and he is the representative of the science and technology sector on all the bodies advising the Government on its future. The body which has been set up to fund badly needed fundamental research also has no representative from the science and technology sector. Give us a break. That is not the way to recognise change, innovation or the capacity to deliver. It represents nothing more than the limited view of the Departments of Education and Science and Enterprise, Trade and Employment on what is education, which is that there are two sectors involved in each level of the education system. I do not want to get involved in a row but their predominant position should be excluded from the process of public discourse and policy making.

Mr. L. Fitzgerald

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. It is appropriate that he should be present for this debate. I am at sea with regard to some sentiments expressed by the previous speaker, not that I am familiar with the third level sector. However, the primary sector was the Cinderella of the education system for many years. It was deprived of resources and innovation was lacking. Leadership was also lacking not alone within the Department but also outside it.

We have reached a very exciting time in primary education and Senator O'Toole should not make an apology to anybody for tabling an excellent motion which focuses the mind of everyone who has had any association with the education system on the enormously innovative measures and initiatives that have been taken, many of which he inspired. I have followed his public statements closely but I take issue with anybody who says that successive Ministers for Education have not shown initiative. The previous incumbent, the Minister, Deputy Martin, was one of the most innovative Ministers for Education ever. He brought forward new, bright and futuristic ideas in the primary, second and third level sectors. If some of the great initiatives introduced by the Department were inspired by Senator O'Toole and his peers, so be it. That reflects partnership in education, in which the then Minister, Deputy Martin, believed, and the fruits of such partnership are evident. There are none so blind as those who do not want to see, and a few such people are still around.

The motion is all-embracing and focuses our minds on primary education which covers the most formative years of a child's life and is essentially the most vital period in their upbringing. It is proper that the individual charged with giving leadership to teachers in the primary sector by the INTO should challenge us to discuss the entire range of initiatives and innovations and the back-up resources which are essential in ensuring their effective, speedy and efficient implementation.

We are experiencing a new era of profound and revolutionary change throughout the primary sector. Given the function of primary education it must be at the forefront of change because it deals with children at the most formative period of their lives. These changes will be driven primarily by the introduction of the revised curriculum, information and communication techno logies and the pilot programme of modern European languages. I commend Senator O'Toole's leadership of the largest teachers' union and his sense of professionalism on the direction as his vision has significantly enhanced the progression of primary education in tandem with the Minister, the Department and all the other partners in education.

Primary education has benefited significantly from this leadership and I am aghast at statements, bleating and baying from self-appointed INTO spokespersons who do a terrible disservice to primary teachers and an abominable disservice to primary education through the media. The voice of the professionals involved in the delivery of primary education is vested in the leadership of the INTO and it is right that the drive for change, innovation and additional resources should emanate from there in conjunction with the Department. Statements from such self-appointed spokespersons only serve to drag primary education back into the last century, out of which it has been so ably led by Senator O'Toole and his assistants. The behaviour of these individuals reinforces the veracity of the old adage, "Eaten bread is soon forgotten". Some of them will rue the day in that regard.

I am not here as a defender of teachers, Senator O'Toole is well capable of doing that. As has been put so articulately, the role of primary school teachers over decades, particularly since the foundation of the State, has been vital to our society. Our primary school teachers have been valued highly over the years for the contribution they have made, not alone in the delivery of primary education but also in the work they did for society outside the classroom.

I gently chide Senator Henry for saying that primary teachers are no longer doing enough as motivators in our community. All the evidence available to me from the parishes in my constituency and surrounding areas points to the contrary. Teachers are motivators, leaders and volunteers. They promoted our national games, our culture and everything that was essentially Irish, and glowing tribute should be paid to them.

If Senator O'Toole is correct in his perception that the community lacks awareness of the enormous additional responsibilities placed on teachers, it is our duty as legislators to ensure that the public is properly educated and made fully aware of those additional duties.

Primary education has become a whole new world since I last taught in 1981. Colleagues of mine with whom I am in regular contact tell me there has been a sea change and a new culture in primary education reflecting an evolution in the delivery of primary education. Our primary teachers are being asked to enthusiastically embrace that evolution and the challenges of society, both in the workplace and in the social context.

Mr. Costello

I am delighted to have the opportunity of contributing to the debate. I commend Senator O'Toole on tabling the motion before the House. I am a great admirer of primary education. We have a fine system of primary education and a fine body of primary teachers. Through thick and thin a quality standard of primary education has been delivered to our children throughout the country. Even when the resources were poor, class sizes were enormous and there was a considerable need for changing the curriculum, the level of commitment and delivery of primary and other teachers was magnificent. That is indicated by the number of teachers involved in various curriculum committees, subject committees and so on.

What distinguishes the teacher unions from all the other unions is the degree of participation on the part of teachers, not in terms of wages and work conditions but in terms of the input and substance of the material they teach. They are the initiators, the collaborators, the people who actually create the new curriculum. They are the people who form the subject matter that is being taught in the schools. It is highly commendable that that is the way forward, and I commend Senator O'Toole as the leader of the Irish National Teachers Organisation.

Having said that, a statistic in the OECD report indicates that Ireland has very high levels of illiteracy. We are bottom of the pile in Europe and second from the bottom in terms of the entire OECD group of countries. We also have a poor track record in relation to the numbers who transfer to further education. These are two serious black marks on our education system. An estimate some years ago indicated that 650,000 people were functionally illiterate and innumerate, yet we are still waiting for the long-promised White Paper on adult education. That is a scandal. I am sure that figure has increased to 750,000, yet there is no indication that legislation will be brought forward to address the problem. That is a black mark on our education system. Clearly people are falling through the system, which is a good one in the context in which it operates, but it is almost on automatic pilot in its ability to deliver. The resources are not available to deal with serious problems when they arise.

I want to briefly identify three areas that are creating problems. First, we have no national pre-school system of education. What we have is patchy and private. We need a national pre-school system of education for children up to four or five years of age. Second, we have 3,000 plus primary schools and 800 second level schools which are all stand alone. There is no educational body that co-ordinates them or involves them with the community. That is a serious defect. Third, there is a lack of interface between the primary and post-primary sectors and a large number of people drop out at those levels. As a result, many people do not go on to further education.

That brings me to a point made in Senator O'Toole's motion that there is a lack of awareness among the wider community of what is happening in primary schools. In many instances, the wider community is not involved in what is happening in primary or second level schools because of a lack of structures. We are responsible for that to some extent because we have not put the structures in place to involve the wider community in the delivery of education. As a result, pupils, parents and indeed the staff in our schools suffer.

I welcome the motion. It is commendable that we recognise what has been done and that we should look towards broadening the educational service being delivered. I look forward to that happening in the years to come.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator O'Toole has agreed to give a few minutes of his time to Senator Chambers.

Mr. Chambers

I thank Senator O'Toole. I support the thrust of the motion and take this opportunity of thanking primary teachers for their contribution to the nation. Each of us is a product of that system. Many primary teachers gave unselfishly of their time and resources over the years. It was a lifetime commitment on their part. That was endemic among the people who participated, particularly in the early days when the job was badly paid. Those people who taught in our primary schools, be they lay or church persons, gave enormous benefit to the young people of Ireland and played a great part in the success of the country.

One of the major problems currently faced by our teachers is a basic lack of communication skills in dealing with the general public. There is a tremendous amount of work to be done in terms of more participation of parents and boards of management. There is room for much development in that regard and more initiative and experience of dealing with the general public is needed.

I take the opportunity of welcoming the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, to the House this evening. The Government has responded positively in relation to the provision of structured inservice training for teachers, capital allowance grants for schools, caretaking and secretarial assistance and administrative ways of reducing teaching time for principals. In just two years all those areas have been dealt with but we have failed to sell this message. There is continued support and commitments given in the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness plan. This opportunity should be taken to enlarge and develop, particularly by the boards of management. We can get a better message across and a better response to the teachers and their efforts which would benefit pupils, teachers and parents.

I compliment Senator O'Toole on the way he has represented national teachers. He has given them a voice in very difficult times. As the economy has progressed he has represented their interests very strongly before the Government and the people. The changes that have taken place have been worthwhile for the teaching profession and he has played no small part. These changes will benefit the pupils and teachers of Ireland.

Mr. O'Toole

Tá mé buíoch de na Seanadóirí a labhair ar son an rúin agus den Aire agus den Aire Stáit atá tar éis teacht isteach anseo anois.

Tá dualgaisí, cúraimí agus freagrachtaí sa bhreis ar mhúinteoirí anois thar mar a bhí riamh cheana agus tá sé tábhachtach do mhúinteoirí go dtuigfeadh an pobal i gcoitinne an méid atá ar siúl acu sna scoileanna faoi láthair. Thuig na Seanadóirí a labhair anocht é sin agus níos mó ná an tuiscint sin bhí tacaíocht acu do na múinteoirí agus tá mé thar a bheith buíoch faoi sin. Beagnach 13 duine a labhair ar an rún anocht agus bhí gach duine acu i bhfábhar an méid a bí le rá agam sa rún. An rud is tábhachtaí a tháinig as an díospóireacht seo ná chomh tábhachtach is atá sé go mbeadh infheistiú in oideachas agus i mbunoideachas go mór mhór. Déarfainn mar rúnaí ginearálta ar cheardchumann chomh tábhachtach is atá sé go mbeadh infheistiú i dtuarastail agus i liúntaisí do mhúinteoirí. Má tá an borradh seo ar chóras eacnamaíochta na tíre le dul ar aghaidh caithfimid leanúint ag infheistiú i gcúrsaí oideachais. Tá sé sin thar a bheith tábhachtach. Ní bheidh aon bhorradh eacnamaíochta ann gan infheistiú san oideachas. Tá an teachtaireacht sin soiléir ón méid a bhí le rá ag na cainteoirí anseo anocht. Táim buíoch ar an scór sin.

An hidden message a bhí agamsa sa rún seo anocht ná go dtuigfeadh daoine go bhfuil job den scoth á dhéanamh ag bunmhúinteoirí na tíre seo. Ach bheadh an méid céanna le rá agam faoi mhúinteoirí sa dara leibhéal.

Mr. Ryan

Agus sa tríú leibhéal.

Mr. O'Toole

Agus gan amhras sa tríú leibhéal ach i ndáiríre bhíos ag díriú isteach anocht ar an gcéad leibhéal. Bunscolaíocht na tíre a bhí i gceist agam agus an tábhacht ar leith a bhaineann leis sin. Ach tá níos mó ná job den scoth á dhéanamh ag na múinteoirí, agus tá mé buíoch faoin méid a bhí le rá ag an Seanadóir Mac Gearailt faoi seo. Ní féidir dearmad a dhéanamh faoin méid atá á dhéanamh ag múinteoirí chun rudaí eile a chaomhnú agus a chur chun cinn – cluichi agus cultúr na tíre mar shampla.

I am heartened and encouraged, as teachers will be, by the support that we received here tonight. This debate have opened up issues and shows what is happening in primary education and in the broader areas of education. We should have a debate on education on a more regular basis.

Question put and agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach

When is it proposed to sit again?

Ms Ormonde

At 10.30 a.m. tomorrow.