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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 26 Oct 2000

Vol. 164 No. 6

Insurance Bill, 1999: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Is onóir mór dom bheith ar ais arís i Seanad Éireann chun freastal ar an mBille an-tábhachtach seo. Is é seo an Bille Árachais, 1999, agus tá mé chun eolas faoi bhreis a chur do mhuintir na tíre ins na heachtraí agus an gnó a bheidh sibh á dheanamh le daoine a bhfuil ag obair le árachais ar fúd na tíre.

I am pleased to bring this Bill before Seanad Éireann. The purpose of the legislation is to update the regulation of certain aspects of the insurance industry. The objectives of the Bill are to allocate regulatory responsibility for insurance intermediaries to the Central Bank of Ireland and to utilise the regulatory powers available to the Central Bank, under the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, to enable the Minister to make disclosure regulations to require insurance undertakings and intermediaries to make relevant information of a specified nature available to insurance consumers, to strengthen the existing system of notification by reinsurance undertakings and to enable the Minister to make regulations for the authorisation and supervision of reinsurance undertakings, to update existing provisions for offences and penalties and to enhance the powers of authorised officers for the purposes of the Insurance Acts and regulations.

I am sure it would be of assistance to the House if I were to summarise briefly the general background to the proposals contained in the Bill. Later I will explain in more detail for the benefit of the House the content of some of the more complex provisions. Where relevant, I will draw the attention of Members to the important amendments introduced to this Bill during the various Stages of debate and subsequent passage through the other House over the past few months.

Insurance undertakings employ almost 11,300 people in Ireland today. In addition, there are approximately 6,500 insurance brokers, agents and tied insurance agents, many of whom are employers of staff. Gross insurance premium income for 1998 amounted to £10.6 billion, of which 70% related to life assurance and the remaining 30% to non-life. Gross premium income increased in 1998 by 41% on the previous year's figure. It is interesting to note that 31% of this business is written in other European economic area countries.

In round figures, there are 1,900 insurance brokers, 1,500 insurance agents and 3,200 tied agents, as well as the sales forces of the undertakings themselves, involved in the sale of insurance products. Of life assurance business, 50% of annual premium is transacted by brokers, 1% by agents, 22% by tied agents, 25% by company sales forces and 1% is effected directly with the insurance undertaking. Where single premium is concerned, brokers transact 75% of insurance business, agents 1%, tied agents 15% and 9% of the business goes directly to the undertakings.

On the non-life side, the insurance industry has advised me that approximately 70% of this business is transacted by intermediaries. Some 55% of non-life business is accounted for by motor insurance, of which approximately one third is transacted directly with the insurers by telephone, fax or over the Internet. The Internet is a mechanism for doing business in this area. The amount of business covered is growing constantly. There has been a major increase in the number of people using the Internet, through e-business and e-commerce, to get their business done. The percentage of direct insurance has been increasing significantly in recent years, with several new companies specialising in this format of business.

The regulation of insurance intermediaries was first provided for in law by Part IV of the Insurance Act, 1989. This provided for a relatively simple system of self-regulation by the insurance industry itself under the overall responsibility of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. The 1989 Act defined three separate categories of insurance intermediary. First is the insurance broker, who acts primarily as an agent of the client and must hold appointments from at least five life companies to transact life assurance business and-or from at least five non-life companies to transact non-life business. Second is the insurance agent, who acts as an agent of the insurance company and who may not hold more than four appointments from life companies to transact life business and-or no more than four non-life companies to transact non-life business. Third is the tied insurance agent, who enters into an arrangement with a par ticular insurance undertaking, whereby he or she undertakes to refer all proposals of insurance of a particular form, that is, life or non-life, to that undertaking. The insurance undertaking concerned is responsible for any act or omission of its tied insurance agent in respect of any matter pertaining to a contract of insurance offered or issued by that undertaking, as if the tied agent were an employee of that undertaking.

A notable feature of the retail insurance industry is the overlap between brokers and agents, with many individuals or firms acting as brokers for one form of insurance business and as agents or tied agents for the other form. The Irish Brokers Association, as a body recognised by the Minister for the purposes of the Insurance Act, undertook supervision of its members' compliance with the Insurance Act. In addition, the Insurance Intermediaries Compliance Bureau was established by the Irish Insurance Federation as a central compliance checking facility for all other insurance intermediaries. A major regulatory function fell to the insurance undertakings themselves in that they may not appoint a person to market their products or pay commission other than to an intermediary who is either a member of a representative body of insurance brokers recognised by the Minister whose rules require compliance with the Insurance Act, or a person who otherwise complies with the provisions of the Act.

The Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, introduced detailed procedures for the regulation of investment intermediaries, with regulatory responsibility allocated to the Central Bank and the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Under the Central Bank Act, 1997, the supervisory role allocated to the Minister in respect of certain categories of investment intermediaries was transferred to the Central Bank, with effect from April 1997. In recent times, there has been considerable blurring at the margins of investment and insurance products and a significant number of intermediaries are engaging in both investment and insurance business.

The Central Bank is well equipped with a robust regime of regulatory and enforcement powers under the 1995 Act to supervise investment intermediaries and has acquired valuable experience in carrying out this function effectively since 1995. The impact of the Bill, when enacted, will be to bring insurance intermediaries within the same regulatory regime as investment intermediaries under the remit of the Central Bank.

It is against this background that I want to outline the reasons I believe it is necessary to restructure the system of regulating insurance intermediaries and to allocate responsibility for this function to the Central Bank. The system of self-regulation is no longer appropriate to an area of such fundamental importance to the consumer. The existing regulatory provisions under the Insurance Act, 1989, are inadequate to regulate the activities of insurance intermediaries. The powers available to the Central Bank under the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, are more comprehensive and robust than those available to the insurance regulators under the Insurance Act, 1989. The considerable overlap between the activities of insurance intermediaries and investment intermediaries requires that the same regulator should cover both activities.

There is a need to minimise the opportunities for regulatory arbitrage, that is, an intermediary using the existence of different regulators to place itself under the least onerous regulatory regime. There is also a need for a level playing field of regulation for insurance intermediaries and investment intermediaries who are now facing into direct competition, particularly in the area of single premium life insurance. Insurance and investment intermediaries are now equally bound by the provisions of the Investor Compensation Act, 1998, which is working very well. The proposed establishment by the Government of a single regulatory authority for all financial service providers will, in any event, bring insurance and investment intermediaries together under the one single regulator. This Bill will launch the initial stage of this process.

On the question of a single financial regulator, discussions have taken place between officials of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and of the Department of Finance and the matter is being considered by the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance. When outstanding issues have been settled, the Minister for Finance and the Tánaiste will bring proposals to Government for detailed consideration and final decision. Following the Government's decision, it is expected that the legislation required for the establishment of the new authority would be promoted by the Minister for Finance in due course.

I would now like to proceed to the provisions in the Bill to facilitate making disclosure regulations. The prime objective in introducing these measures is to provide information to consumers to allow them to make rational and informed choices when purchasing insurance. This should lead to greater competition on the market, thus reducing the price of insurance. The proposed legislation provides for measures to strengthen and enhance existing consumer disclosure measures made under European legislation. The proposals will lead to a simplification in the future presentation of products. The new regulations will make any attempt at the mis-selling and churning of life assurance policies more obvious to the consumer and, therefore, more difficult to achieve. Thus the regulations will clarify the implications and costs involved in taking up life assurance products, including the payment received by the intermediary selling the product before the consumer signs along the dotted line.

In light of the changes proposed for the taxation system as it applies to life assurance which will come into effect from the beginning of next year, the disclosure regulations will remove any temptation to use the tax changes to churn exist ing products or to mis-sell new insurance products to unsuspecting consumers. Experience has shown that many purchasers of non-life insurance are equally at sea when it comes to understanding the precise nature of the product, its constituent elements and the price being charged. Enabling provisions relating to non-life insurance will provide for regulations to be introduced detailing elements such as policy loadings, restrictions, discounts, excesses, commission payments and any other amounts payable.

Some of these elements can have a significant effect on the cost of insurance cover and, in particular, the cost of compulsory motor insurance cover. The introduction of such transparency measures will assist consumers in controlling costs themselves and alleviate the unnecessary cost burdens that result from a lack of information at point of sale and-or renewal. As was the case with the drafting of the life assurance disclosure regulations, it is my intention to consult widely with both industry and consumer interests before finalising similar non-life disclosure regulations.

The Bill will provide a statutory framework for the introduction of regulations requiring the provision of information to insurance consumers, both before the conclusion of insurance contracts and on an ongoing basis thereafter.

Consumers will be entitled under the regulations to comprehensive information from the insurer or insurance intermediary on the terms and conditions of the proposed insurance policy, which will include the type of policy, benefits and options, "cooling off" provisions, purpose and intention of policy, the costs of the policy, the means and duration of the payment of premiums and the consequences of early surrender, which often had detrimental effects on consumers in the past.

Senators will be aware that in 1998 I abolished the cap on the commission paid to intermediaries. This was done for a number of reasons. First, there was a danger that other forms of payment might be devised to circumvent the maximum commission levels. Second, it was brought to my attention that other EU insurers might be deterred from entering the Irish market because of the cap on commissions. Since it is clearly in the interests of consumers to have as many insurers as possible active on the Irish market, in order that the best possible choice of product and price is available to them, I considered it important to abolish the cap.

However, although the removal of the cap has these advantages, it gives rise to the risk of an increase in commissions in the absence of other controls. In my opinion, the best control, in the context of a more competitive market, is disclosure and transparency for all consumers. Consequently, as part of this overall comprehensive disclosure package, I am proposing to introduce disclosure of insurance intermediary and sales persons' remuneration as a separate item of disclosure.

I will move on now to the reinsurance provisions contained in this Bill. Due to the absence of any direct consumer interest in reinsurance, the supervisory authority has imposed a light regulatory regime on this branch of the industry until now. At present, an informal system of authorisation of reinsurance companies operates in Ireland.

This is based on a simple statutory notification requirement and an administrative arrangement, whereby such companies will not be registered by the Companies Registration Office if the information in the statutory notification gives rise to concern. While the current informal system has worked satisfactorily to date, it is considered necessary to expand the requirements and to make provision for a more formal regime that could be introduced, if necessary, at short notice.

The position regarding reinsurance companies in Ireland has changed significantly in recent times, with the development, in particular, of the Irish Financial Services Centre. I intend to impose more stringent obligations on reinsurance companies to ensure the continuation of the excellent international reputation of the IFSC and the Irish financial services sector in general.

This Bill provides for the making of regulations that will require reinsurance companies registered in Ireland to provide detailed information to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment at the time of their establishment, and to notify any changes in their situation on an annual basis. It also makes provision for the possible future extension to reinsurance companies of some or all of the provisions in national legislation governing the authorisation and supervision of insurance undertakings.

The main purpose of the new provisions is to prevent the registration or establishment in Ireland of reinsurance companies of dubious standing. We are also anticipating the introduction, in the medium term, of EU legislation on the regulation and supervision of the reinsurance industry.

For the same general reasons outlined above, this Bill removes the exemption of reinsurance contracts or insurance intermediaries solely engaged in reinsurance contracts from Part IV of that Act. Reinsurance contracts and reinsurance intermediaries will in the future be subject to all insurance legislation.

With regard to authorised officers, the revised provisions of the Bill in this area will apply to the Insurance Acts, 1909 to 1989, and, subsequently, to the proposed disclosure regulations to be made under the Bill. The provisions in the 1989 Act governing the appointment of authorised officers gave rise to concern when the Minister sought to use these provisions in the past. Questions were raised in regard to the appointment of authorised officers and the restricted manner within which they were required to carry out their tasks.

I have decided to update the provisions to address the concerns referred to previously and to bring them into line with the analogous provisions for authorised officers contained in the more recent Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, and the Consumer Credit Act, 1995.

The more notable changes contained in the provisions are as follows: first, the Minister may appoint a person who is not an officer of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment as an authorised officer; second, there is specific reference to persons in respect of whom powers may be exercised by an authorised officer; third, there are several new categories of information which will be open to the authorised officer to inspect; fourth, duties may be imposed on specified persons, for example, an examiner, liquidator, receiver etc., to provide information to the authorised officer; and, fifth, an authorised officer may be empowered by a court warrant to enter a private dwelling.

The various provisions covering offences and penalties of the Insurance Acts, 1909 to 1989, have been reviewed and updated on the basis of experience and other relevant factors. Some of these provisions date from as far back as the Insurance Act, 1936. The most significant changes are as follows: first, prosecutions for summary offences may be taken by the Minister; second, there is an extension of the timescale within which prosecutions can be commenced from six months to two years and beyond this period in specific circumstances; and, third, the Second Schedule to the 1989 Act, which sets out the amount of penalties that can be imposed by the courts, is being replaced by a new Schedule containing significant increases in penalties, which takes into account current money values and the financial situation of the country.

I will now turn to the Bill itself. In Part II, section 4 amends section 3 of the Insurance Act, 1989, by updating and increasing existing offences and penalties, respectively. Under current insurance legislation, the prosecution of offences is hampered by the six month prosecution deadline from the date of the offence. The section enables the Minister to bring summary proceedings for any offence under the Insurance Acts and insurance regulations at any time within two years from the date on which the offence was committed, or at any time within six months from the date on which sufficient evidence is available to justify proceedings, subject to a limitation period of five years from the date on which the offence was committed. This section also empowers the court to order persons convicted of an offence to pay the costs and expenses incurred by the Minister in relation to the investigation, detection and prosecution of the offence.

Sections 5 and 6 deal specifically with reinsurance. They expand the obligations on reinsurance undertakings contained in section 22 of the Insurance Act, 1989, and set out the various headings under which notification to the Depart ment of Enterprise, Trade and Employment is required.

Substantial amendments were made to this section on both Committee and Report Stages in the Dáil. The main change on Committee Stage sought to ensure that the provisions giving the Minister power to introduce full authorisation and supervision of reinsurance companies are constitutionally secure. The main change on Report Stage makes it clear that the requirement to provide notifications applies to existing companies writing reinsurance business. An amendment was also agreed which empowers the Minister to issue a direction to a company to cease reinsurance activities if the notification which it provides is deficient. The overall intent of the provisions regarding reinsurance is to prevent the establishment of reinsurance companies of doubtful reputation in Ireland. If, in spite of these provisions, companies of doubtful repute are established, the Minister may take administrative steps to deal with them. This is necessary to protect Irish and international consumers and to protect Ireland's outstanding reputation as a well regulated financial services centre.

Section 7 provides a firm legal base to introduce regulations on the provision of information to insurance consumers before, during and after the conclusion of insurance contracts. It covers disclosure, which is mandatory under EU law, and it sets out in precise terms the nature of the obligations that may be imposed by regulation on insurance undertakings and intermediaries, in so far as the mandatory provision of information to their clients is concerned. For added clarity, EU information requirements about the insurance undertaking and the commitment of clients are set out in a separate Schedule – Schedule II – to this Bill.

On Committee Stage, in light of representations made to me from various sources, I introduced an amendment which empowers me to require insurance companies to give annual information to consumers about investment policies, irrespective of when these policies were initiated. It is my intention, at least initially, to require this information in respect of policies initiated on or after 1 January 2001. However, should consumers experience difficulty in getting information about existing policies, I will consider extending annual disclosure to existing policies.

The members of the Oireachtas Committee on Enterprise and Small Business argued convincingly on Committee Stage that equivalence of disclosure as between commission payments to insurance intermediaries and sales remuneration to sales employees should be enshrined in this Bill. Accordingly, I brought forward an amendment on Report Stage in response to those arguments. Similarly, in response to good arguments on Committee Stage, I brought forward an amendment on Report Stage to provide for the monitoring of the disclosure provisions. It is my intention that the transparency regulations will come into operation with effect from 1 January 2001.

Section 8 provides for the repeal of Part IV of the Act of 1989. The essential elements of this Part will be replaced by the authorisation and supervision provisions in the amended Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995. Thus, insurance and investment intermediaries will be subject to a single regulatory regime, overseen by the Central Bank of Ireland.

Sections 9 and 10 deal with all the appointment and powers of authorised officers under the insurance Acts. Section 59 of the Act of 1989 is amended to provide for the appointment of authorised officers by the Minister, which appointments will not be restricted to officers of our Department. This will permit the appointment of authorised officers with the specific skills and qualifications necessary to carry out the particular task in question.

Section 10 expands the scope and powers of authorised officers. Experience has shown that the powers currently available to authorised officers were such as to hinder investigations into unauthorised insurance business and breaches of the Insurance Acts. Section 10 clarifies which entities are subject to the powers of an authorised officer and the actions that an authorised officer is empowered to carry out. Specific obligations on persons to whom this section applies to co-operate with an authorised officer are set out. A person who obstructs, misleads or fails to co-operate with an authorised officer in the exercise of his or her powers shall be guilty of an offence in the future.

Section 13 repeals section 110 of the Insurance Act, 1936. The provisions of this section, concerning time limits for the prosecution of offences, are revised and expanded in section 4 of this Bill. Section 14 provides for transitional provisions to apply to life assurance proposals and policies entered into before the commencement of section 6 – provision of information – of this Bill.

Part III brings me to the amendments to the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, an Act that is already administered and enforced by the Central Bank of Ireland. Section 16 amends section 2 of the 1995 Act to include definitions that are relevant to insurance. A number of amendments were agreed on Committee Stage, the purpose of which was to ensure that the Investment Intermediaries Act applied as intended and did not capture the activities of companies based in the International Financial Services Centre who are doing business in other countries whose domestic legislation will cover these activities. On Report Stage, I brought forward an amendment which amends the definition of credit institution. The previous definition was ambiguous in that it was not clear whether credit institutions would be required to seek authorisation as an investment business firm when acting as insurance intermediaries.

Section 17 inserts a new section 13A after section 13. Section 13A outlines transitional arrangements in relation to insurance intermediaries existing on the day before this section comes into effect. Provided that they apply to the supervisory authority, the Central Bank, for authorisation within a period of three months, these will "stand authorised" pending a decision from the supervisory authority. During the period in which the supervisory authority is considering an application for authorisation, it has the power to impose conditions and issue directions to the intermediary. An intermediary may appeal any such directions or conditions to the courts.

Section 18 amends section 16 of the Act of 1995 to provide that where the supervisory authority is not satisfied as to the probity and competence of a director or manager or as to the suitability of a qualifying shareholder of the investment business firm, it may apply to the court for an order revoking the authorisation of the investment business firm. Section 19 amends section 17 by removing the necessity for the supervisory authority to keep separately a register of investment business firms who are deemed authorised and those authorised by the supervisory authority.

Section 20 provides that where an investment business firm fails to give information sought by the supervisory authority within a reasonable period as specified, the supervisory authority may, by direction, impose punitive measures. This amendment was inserted on Committee Stage as the supervisory authority had recently, in some cases, experienced difficulties getting responses from some intermediaries.

Sections 21 and 22 define investment product intermediaries and the various types of insurance intermediaries. Section 21 presents section 25 of the 1995 Act in a more simple format. In addition, it includes insurance policies and tracker bonds in the list of products in respect of which a restricted activity investment product intermediary, RAIPI, may provide services. Section 22 amends section 25 of the 1995 Act by the insertion of new subsections outlining specific requirements for insurance intermediaries. Section 25A provides that an intermediary shall not place or attempt to place insurance otherwise than with an undertaking.

Sections 25B, 25C and 25D define the activities of a broker, agent and a tied agent. Section 25E defines the scope of agency in relation to insurance agents. It also governs the acceptance by an intermediary of insurance proposals. Where a premium is paid to an insurance intermediary in respect of a renewal of a policy invited by an insurer or is paid in respect of an accepted proposal of insurance, it is deemed to have been paid to the undertaking. Furthermore, it also provides that where a premium is paid to an insurance intermediary in respect of a renewal of a policy invited by an insurance undertaking or in respect of an accepted proposal of insurance, it is deemed to have been paid to the insurance undertaking.

On Report Stage I brought forward an amendment to section 26 which allows the supervisory authority to specify the type of information that should be given by intermediaries when first entering a business relationship with the client or on their stationery or advertisements. This will allow the supervisory authority to take account of the sometimes complex status of intermediaries while ensuring that the information to clients is absolutely clear and unambiguous.

Section 23 amends section 26(1) as amended by the Investor Compensation Act, 1998, by outlining the specific services that a restricted activity investment product intermediary may provide and by the addition of receiving and transmitting orders in tracker bonds and insurance policies to this list. Insurance undertakings are added to the list of bodies to which a RAIPI may transmit orders. Subsection (2)(a) provides that a person who is an insurance intermediary on the day prior to the coming into effect of section 15(c) and who remains within the definition of a RAIPI shall be deemed to be an authorised investment firm. Other than where acting as a deposit agent or a tied insurance agent, a RAIPI is not permitted to handle customers' cash.

An amendment was included on Committee State to provide a requirement that insurance intermediaries, who in accordance with the terms of the Act will be deemed authorised, will furnish information to the Central Bank within three months of the coming into force of the provisions of this Bill. The reason for the amendment was that the bank had experienced difficulties in getting information from a limited number of intermediaries who were "deemed authorised".

The issue of whether restricted activity investment product intermediaries should be permitted to handle cash in particular circumstances was raised on Committee and Report Stages by Members of the Opposition. I gave an undertaking on Report Stage in the Dáil that I would bring forward an amendment which would permit cash handling in closely defined circumstances. I wish to confirm my intention to table such an amendment on Committee Stage in this House.

Section 24 removes the provision in section 27 whereby a representative body approved by the supervisory authority would regulate its members. This section requires investment product intermediaries who are acting as insurance intermediaries to comply with the provisions of the insurance Acts. Allowance is also made for the supervisory authority to exempt certain classes of intermediary from the requirement to hold professional indemnity insurance where it considers that the clients of the intermediaries are otherwise adequately protected.

Section 25 provides for the substitution of the existing section 28(1) of the 1995 Act by a new text. This text simplifies the amendment of section 28(1) made under the Central Bank Act, 1997, and extends the obligations on product producers to insurance matters. The provision in section 28(1) whereby a product producer was permitted to appoint an investment product intermediary to act on its behalf, on the basis that the intermediary was a member of a representative body approved by the supervisory authority, is removed since the supervisory authority will be engaged in direct regulation itself and will no longer issue such approvals to representative bodies.

This section also amends section 28(2) by permitting a product producer to assume, for the purposes of section 28(1), that any investment product intermediary who has been authorised by the supervisory authority complies with the provisions of the Insurance Acts.

On Report Stage I brought forward an amendment to section 29 in place of previous provisions in the 1995 Act. The effect of the new provisions is to provide that the supervisory authority may decide the type of information to be provided by intermediaries to clients on their stationery, in advertisements, or on first contact. This is to take account of the sometimes complex status of intermediaries, while ensuring that the information to the client is absolutely clear and unambiguous. It will also permit the supervisory authority to adapt quickly to innovations on the market, notably those which may flow from e-commerce.

Section 27 amends section 30 to provide for the form of receipt to be issued by the intermediary to the client, the manner in which this form may be altered by the supervisory authority from time to time and the time period for which an intermediary must retain a record of the receipt. The requirements set out in this section may be augmented from time to time by codes of practice issued or approved by the supervisory authority under section 37 of the 1995 Act.

Section 28 as it now stands was inserted on Committee Stage. It provides that discontinuance notices are published where they can be expected to be seen by all clients of the intermediary. There have been cases where discontinuance notices have been published in newspapers where they would be unlikely to be seen by most of the clients affected.

Section 29 inserts a new section 31A exempting travel agents and tour operators from Part IV of the Investment Intermediaries Act. This is a similar provision to that which was included in Part IV of the Insurance Act, 1989. I have undertaken to examine this matter further and will revert to the matter on Committee Stage.

Section 30 excludes insurance intermediaries from the requirement in the 1995 Act to disclose commissions since they will have to disclose commission payments under this Act.

Section 31 repeals section 51(5)(e) of the 1995 Act, which provided that a single bond may cover the bonding obligations of an investment business firm that is also an insurance intermediary. Since insurance intermediaries are now included within the definition of investment intermediaries, and in any event the requirement to hold a bond under the Insurance Act, 1989, was repealed by the Investor Compensation Act, 1998, this subsection is no longer necessary.

Section 32 amends section 2(g) by the insertion after the word “by” of the word “whom”. This was a technical amendment necessitated by the omission of “whom” in the original text of this Act.

Section 33 amends section 74(2) by expanding the section to include certain information provision requirements for persons acting as insurance intermediaries or insurance agents, the format of which information may be modified by the supervisory authority, within the remit of section 74(1). In other words account is being taken of changes in society, commerce, business and the economy, allowing the supervisory authority to react at any time by making the necessary, sensible, practical changes in the interests of the consumer and of sustainable business.

Section 34 was introduced on Committee Stage. It will enable the Central Bank to make inquires of accountancy bodies about the investment business activities of any of their members. The current position restricts inquiries to "certified", that is authorised, persons. The amendments permit the Central Bank to discuss the activities of accountants who are engaging in business activities without the necessary authorisation. It also allows the supervisory authority to seek from a product producer information about an investment business firm with whom they have a business relationship and disclose that information to the Garda, notwithstanding normal confidentiality rules.

That is a summary of the Insurance Bill, 1999. In the course of preparation of the Bill over the past two years, our excellent officials and I have met with a broad range of interest groups who have represented the interests of the industry bodies concerned and insurance consumers.

These have included the Irish Insurance Federation, the Irish Brokers Association, the Professional Insurance Brokers Association, the Insurance Intermediaries Compliance Board, the Society of Actuaries, the Consumers Association of Ireland, the Pensions Board, the Director of Consumer Affairs and, of course, the Central Bank of Ireland, which will be taking over responsibility for the regulation of insurance intermediaries. Altogether, we have had a number of separate meetings with representative groups from the insurance industry. Our officials also provided a presentation in November 1999 on the broad outline of the Bill to the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business. I have been signalling these changes since October 1997, so they do not come as a surprise to anybody.

I sincerely thank the various interest groups which have furnished their opinions to me and our officials during the consultation process and, in doing so, contributed to the final outcome of the Bill.

Senators will be aware that the cost of insurance, especially motor insurance, is a topic which generates much debate and concern. Premiums for motor insurance arise directly from the high incidence of claims, especially among certain age groups, and the high cost of claims settlements. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Molloy, has initiated a campaign to improve road safety this coming bank holiday weekend. The National Safety Council is inviting motorists to switch on their headlights during daylight hours over the weekend, as a gesture of solidarity in favour of road safety. Senators will recall that the "fly the flag" campaign during the same weekend last year resulted in a significant improvement in road safety in November. I commend the campaign of the Minister of State, Deputy Molloy, to this House and I hope the motoring public will take this opportunity to be proactive in support of road safety in Ireland. A significant lessening in the number of accidents over the already better record of last November would be the best possible result for the people.

I sincerely thank the Seanad for its co-operation in arranging this Second Stage debate. I look forward to hearing the contributions of all Senators. I commend the Bill to the House and look forward to participating in the subsequent Stages.

I welcome the Minister to the House and thank him for this comprehensive overview of the Bill. I welcome the campaign to improve road safety over the bank holiday weekend, to which he referred in his concluding remarks.

I welcome the opportunity to address the important matters which this Bill proposes to deal with, namely, the allocation of responsibility for the authorisation and supervision of insurance intermediaries, which I am glad is being placed in the care of the Central Bank, and the consequent requisite amendment of the Insurance Act, 1989, and the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995. I take it from what the Minister said that the Minister for Finance will be dealing with this, which led to some furore in the other House. I thank the Minister for his confirmation in this regard and look forward to an early resolution at Government level. I have always felt the Central Bank was the correct institution in this regard. It has the expertise, staff, knowledge and know-how. I take it we will continue to have a Central Bank, so while there may have been issues of overlap or conflict in terms of prevention and its supervisory role in the past, there is no reason, with a clear directive from Government and necessary law, this cannot be put right.

The Bill will enable the Minister to make disclosure regulations requiring insurance companies and intermediaries to make relevant information available to insurance consumers. The Bill will strengthen the existing system of notification by reinsurance undertakings and enable the Minister to make regulations for their authorisation and supervision.

The Bill will also update existing provisions for offences and penalties and enhance the powers of authorised officers for the purposes of the Insurance Acts and regulations.

The history of regulation is very recent having been first introduced in 1989 and improved upon in 1995 with the Investment Intermediaries Act. Then, in accordance with the terms of the Central Bank Act, 1997, the supervisory role of the Minister was transferred to the Central Bank. There is no doubt that self-regulation of insurance intermediaries has in the past proved inadequate and because of the importance to consumer welfare some more extensive regulatory powers were needed. There is no doubt that in this age of openness, transparency and accountability, the lack of transparency and the information deficit associated with the sale of insurance products had to be tackled and this is done in the Bill, but in some instances with too much of a heavy hand. It empowers the Minister to make up for deficiencies. There are some matters which are unnecessary and where the Minister unnecessarily goes beyond European requirements, something I will return to later. I agree with the provisions dealing with reinsurance and in particular the need to protect the reputation of the Irish financial services sector and the provision for a more formal regime which could be introduced at short notice, if necessary, following the enactment of the Bill. I note that the Bill gives enhanced powers to authorised officers.

I note that the Minister intends to use the powers available under the existing Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995, so that both investment intermediaries and insurance intermediaries will come under the same regulatory regime. It seems that insurance intermediaries will not readily fit into this regulatory regime and the Minister has much work to do to convince me that this "easy option" will work. The Insurance Bill, 1999, should be amended to ensure that insurance intermediaries are exempted from the onerous obligations of the 1995 Act which are better suited to the large investment firms, for which the Act was originally intended. There is common ground between the two types of intermediary on, for example, sales of tracker bonds but over-regulation is not the answer.

Much has changed in the industry in the past few years. All independent insurance brokers subscribe to the Investor Compensation Authority. I am reliably informed that the vast majority have professional indemnity cover and both of these give the consumer comfort should an issue of misappropriation of client moneys, incorrect advice or inappropriate selling arise. I understand that insurance intermediaries will be divided into two categories – restricted activity product intermediaries and investment product intermediaries. This is not appropriate as all insurance brokers provide services in these categories.

Insurance brokers play an important role in selling life protection and pensions to the consumer. Surely we do not want the Bill to put these people out of business and leave the consumer without product choice and independent advice and at the mercy of the larger institutions. We have already witnessed through the Committee of Public Accounts inquiry how large institutions can manipulate the consumer. I would be opposed to any attempt to give advantage to such institutions and do not want this Bill to lead to job losses in the industry. As the Minister stated, a level playing pitch is extremely important.

Insurance intermediaries provide a valuable service to society and relieve the burden on the State by ensuring that consumers have money when they are critically ill, retire or die. Is the House aware that 40% of males and 48% of females have no life cover and average life cover is at the totally inadequate figure of £50,000 per person? Only 52% of employees, 27% of the self-employed and 12% of the agri-sector have pensions. We need to support the efforts of insurance brokers to increase coverage.

The Insurance Bill, 1999, should not be allowed to disadvantage insurance brokers. Unless the Minister makes some changes to the Bill he will discourage insurance brokers from selling insurance and confuse the consumer with incomprehensible facts and figures and extra paperwork. I ask the Minister to consider a correction before damage is caused and to ensure the independent broker can give independent advice to the consumer.

I am pleased that the Bill provides for equivalence between the remuneration of sales employees of insurers and insurance brokers. To create a level playing field between the direct sellers and the insurance intermediary, the Minister must ensure that the broker distribution channel is fairly compared to the institutions. How does the Minister intend to achieve this? Will he consider setting up a system to monitor this or an arbitrator to whom complaints can be made? I look forward to his views on this matter.

The Minister intends that brokers cannot accept cash once the Bill becomes law. This is gross interference in the way the industry operates and is handing the advantage to the large players. Brokers must be allowed accept cash in the practice of their normal business activities. There is already a system of section 48 accounts in place which is monitored annually and has worked well in the industry. There must be a way, with necessary safeguards, to allow brokers accept cash. I note that the Minister said he intends to introduce a restricted amendment on Committee Stage. I look forward to that amendment and hope it will deal with the situation.

In Part 3 it is intended that insurance brokers who give advice should register under section 10 of the Investment Intermediaries Act, 1995. This is nonsense as an independent broker who has more than five agencies and has adequate professional qualifications and ability must be allowed to give advice. This is what his business is about. This is what the consumer expects of him. The Minister intends to restrict insurance brokers to give information only – unless they register under section 10. How can one distinguish adequately between information and advice? It will not work in practice. I do not like the word RAIPI. It is a most unfortunate acronym. Brokers in their independent capacity must be allowed to give advice.

We must ensure the consumer has the availability of independent advice and choice of products at an affordable price. In the past the commission structure provided for this by enabling insurance brokers to give valuable advice to all consumers. This cost is built into the product sale and if the Minister attempts to drive down this cost or "commission" he will put the independent insurance broker out of business because this money provides his income out of which he pays his overheads, staff, his own salary, car costs and pension costs. If he cannot do this he cannot survive in the business and the advantage is being given to the large market players. This is not acceptable and it will lead to job losses in the industry, particularly in rural Ireland. We have to think of Ireland beyond the Pale as well as within the Pale. As I said here last week in a debate on rural development and rural regeneration, rural Ireland needs all the breaks it can get.

RAIPI is a terrible word. Can it be changed? I strongly disapprove of the term and I ask the Minister to examine this whole area of restriction. Independent brokers cannot do business and be restricted. It is nonsense. How would one like to go out and sell a policy and before starting tell the consumer one is restricted in what one can say? One would not sell many policies under those restrictions. Like me the Minister should know as he may have engaged in this type of business in the past. The independent insurance broker should be allowed to operate his business independently, within the normal criteria for operating this business, and he should not be subject to this type of interference by the State.

The requirement for capital adequacy does not make sense. It goes much further than the proposed EU directive which offers four options to satisfy this area, that is, whereby moneys paid by the consumer to the intermediaries are treated as having been paid to the undertaking; a requirement of 8% of annual net revenue with a minimum of £15,000; the existence of segregated accounts – we have a good system with section 48 accounts and a guarantee fund – and we now have the Investment Compensation Authority. The Minister is trying to get all four of these protections, although the proposed EU directive would be happy with one, into the Insurance Bill, which is totally unnecessary since the first three are generally fulfilled. As well as this the Bill is trying to restrict what an independent broker says to his client. The Bill goes too far and creates too many burdens for insurance brokers when we should be supporting their good work.

On Committee Stage in the other House the Minister said he was leaving out disclosure on travel insurance and tour operators who sell travel insurance because they are protection products. Is that not producing one law for travel insurance and another for life protection insurance? I understand travel agents get a higher commission on these products than non-life brokers. There is no advantage to the consumer in having disclosure on pure protection products. These policies are price driven and considering that the Minister is attempting to exclude travel agents I ask him to exclude disclosure on all term and pure protection products, otherwise he will confuse the consumer with unnecessary information. It is vital to encourage people to take out protection insurance to secure their future. I welcome the concept of disclosure but surely this should be given to the consumer with the cooling off notice. While a quotation can be given, up-front figures will change due to underwriting and the proposed paperwork which amounts to approximately ten pages is too burdensome for both the consumer and the broker in trying to close a sale. It will result in the sale of fewer policies.

I have examined the proposed disclosure table and note that commissions are not included in the costs and charges table, but in an isolated table some pages later. This is not acceptable. Commission is the insurance company's cost for selling policies and it should be included in the cost and charges table as part of the total cost of the policy to give the full costs to the consumer. The Minister is setting out to provide for disclosure but this table does not achieve that because it does not give the consumer the full cost of taking out a policy. The Minister would be able to exempt pure protection products as the total cost and charges would be visible to the consumer if there is an accurate table.

I ask the Minister to re-examine this area and we will table an amendment on Committee Stage. One is confusing the consumer and disadvantaging the broker. If the disclosure table is re-arranged to include a column for the total cost of the policy, including commission, then pure protection products could be exempted from disclosure. The insurance intermediary's commission has no material effect on these guaranteed products. They are price driven and never carry any value. The consumer will not lose out. On death or on the occurrence of a critical illness the full payout is guaranteed to the consumer regardless of how much the independent broker has been paid in commission. PIBA, the IBA and the Consumers' Association of Ireland agree on this point. I will also table an amendment on this issue. Perhaps the Minister of State will save me the need to do so and I plead with him to do so.

Perhaps we can do something together.

I appreciate that. The Minister of State is always helpful and I would be happy to do business with him again.

The Minister of State and his officials have relied heavily on the Society of Actuaries in drafting the disclosure guidelines. I am not convinced that a level playing field is achieved in relation to disclosure of costs, overheads and sales remuneration. Too much discretion seems to be left to the individual actuary in the institution allowing him to present his disclosure information in the best light. This facility is not provided for the insurance intermediary. His commission on each sale is outlined in a separate column. The car salesman or the mobile telephone salesman does not have to reveal his commission to anybody. Why is the Minister of State demanding that the insurance intermediary declare his commission as an isolated charge? It is only relevant on policies with surrender values.

The Bill imposes considerable extra time on the independent insurance broker in making additional visits to the consumer, especially in the present traffic congested environment, to verify his requirements and acceptance of policy conditions. This is not workable in practice as time costs money. In this era of the Internet and telesales what provision has been made to accommodate these forms of selling?

The Minister of State intends that a discontinuance notice should be printed in the national press if a broker ceases to operate part of his business or one of his agencies is cancelled for non-production. This is also unacceptable. The Minister of State knows this will be misinterpreted in his constituency and others and in people's minds because they will perceive there is wrongdoing involved and the reputation of the broker will be damaged. I will consider tabling an amendment on this to ensure such a notice is only printed where wrongdoing is discovered.

We will not oppose the Bill as we agree with the principle underlining it but I am unhappy with certain aspects. I am grateful for the Minister of State's kind offer and perhaps together we will make further amendments to make this legislation more equitable and practicable. If it is enacted in its present form there will be job losses in the industry, which should not be allowed to happen.

I welcome the Minister of State. I congratulate Senator Coghlan on his work on this legislation and on his success with regard to the groceries order. He is probably happy with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

The Acting Chairman is also pleased.

All of us have come to expect transparency in the financial services industry as it is vital for commercial and political business. The legislation aims to introduce greater transparency in the insurance industry. It is important that the consumer understands how the system works. It is only when he is armed with this knowledge that he can make an informed purchasing decision. The ability to make such decisions leads to better value and customer service and a greater contribution to the business and the consumer.

I agree with Senator Coghlan that the insurance industry has made a great contribution to society. It has often provided good financial advice which has given peace of mind to many people in difficult situations. At the end of the day insurance companies have often provided money in times of great pain and sorrow to consumers and that has made a difference to them in terms of dealing, for example, with the devastation of losing a loved one. Life insurance should not be underestimated.

In many of the consultations I have had with people in the insurance industry they pointed out how nice it was to go to the house of a bereaved person a short time after the funeral and tell them that the insurance would be sorted out when the death certificate had been organised. We should be tremendously proud of the peace of mind that generates for people. The insurance industry can also be proud of the contribution it makes.

Many years ago I recall my late father telling me there were two types of salesman who preyed on people, the encyclopaedia salesman and the insurance salesman. My father tried to sell encyclopaedias but gave it up quickly because he felt it was wrong to sell products to people who did not need them. Sometimes insurance salesmen say they are selling products to people who do not need them but it is not until something bad happens that we realise how life changes and that the peace of mind that insurance gives is worthwhile. Life insurance has made a significant difference to people following sudden deaths in the family.

While the insurance industry was initially fearful of the changes required under the original draft of this legislation, most of its fears have been allayed. There will be change and everybody accepts that. As business progresses there is change. Change is often frightening and difficult to take on board and understand. Business people wonder whether they will be able to operate following change, whether they will be able to conduct their businesses differently, whether change will improve or worsen their businesses or whether it will lead to job losses, to which Senator Coghlan referred.

I do not believe there will be job losses in the insurance industry but it will change. Overall when it looks back on the legislation in a few years the industry will be happy. There have been long and detailed discussions on the legislation. When it was published many people in the industry had grave fears. The Minister of State consulted many organisations, including the Irish Insurance Federation, the Irish Brokers Association, the Professional Insurance Brokers Association, insurance intermediaries, the Society of Actuaries, the Consumers' Association of Ireland Limited, the Director of Consumer Affairs, the Central Bank, the Pensions Board and others.

Such detailed discussion and consultation is important and it is because of that process and the efforts of those involved that the legislation satisfies many of the needs of the Department in terms of what it wants to achieve and satisfies the fears of the insurance industry.

Many of these fears have been allayed. However, I am still not happy about a couple of issues and I have spoken privately to the Minister of State about them. I also intend to raise them during the debate. It is important to review legislation as time passes. In terms of the legislation introduced by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, there has always been an openness and a willingness to review whether its key objectives are being achieved.

The two reasons for this legislation are that we want to protect the public, the people who buy insurance products, and we want to protect the industry. We need to protect the public because much money is invested in insurance. There are huge benefits involved in buying in advance and this is necessary. We need to insure ourselves against some of the bad things that can happen to ensure that our loved ones and families are protected. If we are involved in a car accident and we or others are hurt, we want to ensure that our costs are covered and that, if necessary, compensation can be paid.

The public relies on the advice of the insurance industry. Senator Coghlan mentioned rural areas and there is a huge reliance on the advice of small agents and brokers in many small towns and villages. It is only during home visits late in the evening when the milking is done and the work is finished for the day that people sit down and consider whether the advice they are receiving is good for them and if they should take it. The guidance given to small investors and customers is most important and we cannot afford any degradation of this service in terms of what the public expects from the insurance industry.

Regarding the protection of the industry, there is a major problem nowadays in terms of generalisation. If one organisation or industry does something wrong, all those involved in the area are blamed. There is a perception that the entire insurance industry and the banks are bad. For example, Irish Life is bad because it was involved in churning. Insurance brokers and agents are involved in overselling and they do not tell people everything. There are no proper explanations about what products are available or what they involve. This creates the opportunity for exploitation by cowboy operators. While there are cowboys in every area, in general, the people who work in the insurance industry are hard working, committed and honest individuals. The industry needs the protection of this legislation to ensure the cowboys do not become the norm and remain the exception.

When I was preparing my notes for this debate, I realised that the list of benefits for the industry was longer than the list for the public. Ultimately, this is why the legislation will work. I disagree with Senator Coghlan, I believe the legislation will work. The people in the industry are hard working and honest but, above all, they are professional. Their contribution, in association with the legislation and the framework for regulation that is being put in place, will ensure that the industry will continue to grow and develop. Senator Coghlan and the Minister of State mentioned percentages in relation to the insurance held by people and the room for growth in this area.

There are unacceptable activities, but it is not fair to tar everybody with the same brush. There is a need to recognise the dangers and ensure they do not happen again. This regulatory framework and the change in terms of the powers that will be given to the Central Bank are part of that process.

The objectives of the Bill are simple. They are to enhance and strengthen the consumer disclosure measures and to make the presentation of products simpler and easier to understand. There is an aim to increase competition and to force greater value for money. There is also an aim to maintain a high level of consumer protection. All these objectives must be met and we must work together to ensure that they are achieved.

The Bill contains three parts with two central elements – stricter regulation of insurance intermediaries and the protection of people who buy insurance in all its forms. For too long consumers were not protected. Much of the protection in place today was inspired by the EU and I am grateful for that. However, as a country, we must take responsibility. We cannot be led and inspired all the time by the EU. We need to take the high road ourselves and introduce legislation and frameworks that other countries in the EU can copy. Many other countries are looking at the economy and asking what Ireland is doing right and how they can replicate our success.

During the debate in the other House, Deputy Fleming recounted his experience in the 1980s of buying a house. At the time, endowment mortgages were the rage and he explained how many people took out such mortgages. The basis of the product was anticipated growth of up to 10%, but that did not happen and many people who took out such mortgages had to cash them in or revert to conventional mortgage arrangements with banks and building societies. These products were not a deliberate ploy on the part of insurance agencies to fleece consumers, but that is what happened. People were severely disadvantaged by the type of product they purchased.

However, consumers also have a responsibility. People say that those selling products must ensure that consumers are informed of various aspects, but consumers must ask questions and realise on what they are spending their money. They must look after themselves. It is too easy not to read the small print, although the insurance industry could make the print larger and less legalistic and complex. Perhaps this area could be considered in the context of making products easier to understand and less complicated for the consumer.

The Bill attempts to ensure that even if the print is small, it is not too complex and people understand what they are buying. However, it is important that consumers ask questions. They should ask what terms mean and what they can expect. They should ask about potential flaws and pitfalls associated with products and what guarantees they can expect and how they are measured. They should ask if they are measured on past performances and about indications for future performances.

As the Minister of State said, the insurance industry in Ireland is huge. More than 10,500 people are directly employed in it and 6,500 people act as agents. It was not until I started to have discussions with people in the industry that I understood the meaning of the term "tied agent". I saw advertisements stating that particular bodies were tied agents for Lifetime or Ark Life but I did not understand what it meant. It was great to get an explanation.

Some 64% of insurance business is involved in life insurance while 34% is involved in non-life insurance. In life insurance, 50% of business is done by brokers while 24% is done by agents. The remainder is done through direct sales. Some 50% of the non-life insurance business relates to car insurance. This is vital insurance and it is the only area where insurance is mandatory. However, there are real problems in this area.

There is a huge tendency to take legal action and there are large litigation bills as a result. This has to stop. I have witnessed cases where a car was bumped slightly by the vehicle behind it at traffic lights. Within two seconds, the person driving the car emerged, holding their neck and saying that it was painful. This happens a lot and we should not stand for it. However, part of the reason people get away with it is the tendency of insurance companies to settle claims before they go to court. They do not even ask the person to say, under oath, that there is still something wrong with them. They tend to feel they should accept it for what it is.

This situation will continue until the insurance industry realises that consumers can go to court if they have a legitimate claim. Perhaps there are cost issues that could be sorted out, including all the money that solicitors and barristers make from such cases. One way of stopping spurious claims and making it easier for those with genuine ones, is to make somebody face up to the fact that they are telling lies about an injury. It is no longer acceptable for people to obtain money for old rope in this way.

The importance of adequate house and contents insurance became obvious to me about a year ago when I had to make a claim following a small fire. People who do not have a large amount of disposable income and who, perhaps, have not bothered to arrange home insurance in the past, are often those who are most in need of such insurance when things go wrong. Senator Coghlan spoke earlier in the context of life insurance and we must do whatever we can to encourage people to increase their insurance cover through increased brokerage activity and Government support. If more people were insured it could bring the cost of policies down.

I renewed the policy on my own house recently and it cost nearly £300, but that is a lot of money for people on the minimum wage. The challenge facing the Government and the insurance industry is to try to lower those costs, thus bringing more people into the net and ensuring they have adequate cover when things go wrong. Senator Coghlan will recollect all the hard work done by the Minister and the Department to make sure nothing went wrong on the Y2K issue. When nothing went wrong because of all the preparations we had put in place everybody said it was a waste of money. If we had not invested that money and things had gone wrong, however, it would have been a completely different story and we would all have been in the boiling pot.

The problem with insurance is that if one does not have it and does not need it, one thinks it is a waste of time. If one has it and requires it, one is very grateful for it. Also, if one needs it but does not have cover, one will certainly lose out.

It is funny to contemplate how invasive the insurance industry is and how it affects us in our daily lives through household and mortgage protection, life insurance, health insurance, including critical illness cover, and motor insurance. It affects everybody. Life insurance is particularly important yet only 52% of females in this country have life cover – that means 48% of them are not covered. As Senator Coghlan said, the average amount of life cover is £50,000. That is frightening because in this day and age £50,000 is inadequate, particularly if it concerns a mother who is looking after children and doing part-time work as well as household jobs. A sum of £50,000 would not compensate for such work, even for one year. A breadwinner, whether it is the mother or father in a household, certainly cannot be replaced by £50,000. In the olden days it may have written off an average mortgage, but that is not the case today. The Department has a responsibility to make people more aware of the need for and the value of insurance. Regulation in this area will ensure there will be a greater respect for insurance sales persons who come to the door to sell their products.

I remember joining a company when I was 18 years of age and they talked about the pension fund. I was told, however, that I did not have to worry about it until later because I could not join the fund until I was 26. At the age of 26, I thought I would never need a pension. It is only when one hits the mid-30s that one begins to wonder what will happen when one can no longer work. What will replace a person's income then? We need a sustained information campaign and a good tax regime so that we can continue to provide for our own pensions and not be dependent on State pensions.

The Celtic tiger exists because of the amount of young people working at present. These young people will grow older, but the shrinking labour force will not be able to support everyone's pension needs. The challenge is for each of us to come up with some way of preparing our own pensions.

The Senator's time is up.

I cannot believe it. I have never before spoken for 20 minutes in the House. That is a compliment to the insurance industry.

Various points were made, in particular by the Professional Insurance Brokers' Association. I read through them after the Dáil debate last Wednesday and again today. Most of the issues have been dealt with. The Minister of State should re-examine the name issue. As Senator Coghlan said, the term "RAIPI" seems to cause offence. I understand it is from a different Bill but perhaps we can look at it. The insurance industry should come up with something that we can propose to the Minister of State who, I believe, is very open to it. He said he would address a couple of other issues on Committee Stage and I look forward to that. Given what he has done to date, I am sure the insurance industry and the Professional Insurance Brokers' Association in particular, will be happy with what he will have to say.

I welcome yet another innovative Bill. I gives me pleasure to record publicly that individual Ministers of State – who have been given a brief under the new dispensation of recent years, and who have much more power and influence in their Departments than heretofore – have demonstrated their grasp of the complexities of those Departments. I compliment the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, who has been on top of his brief, especially in the area of insurance regulation which, as was pointed out by my colleagues, is an extremely complex area for the public. While the insurance industry itself seems to have no difficulty in working out the jargon and terminology, ordinary consumers have always had great difficulty in doing so.

In the context of the Bill, I could not help but reflect whether one of Ireland's best known broadcasters, Gay Byrne – who had his own personal financial problems with his late accountant, losing a considerable amount of money – would have been protected if this Bill had been enacted at the time. He was perhaps the most high-profile person to have had such an experience. Yet, hidden behind the one Gay Byrne are many hundreds of others, especially older people who may have invested their life savings with dubious undertakings and "silver-tongued devils", to quote a Kris Kristofferson song of many years ago, in the insurance industry. While not wishing to tar all of them with the same brush, it is a highly competitive environment and it is all about selling. At one time or another, all of us have been subjected – whether personally or through the media – to the hard sell of financial investments.

I applaud the Minister of State's decision to abolish the cap on commissions, which was anti-competitive. It will introduce a new competitive era into the selling of insurance, pensions and other financial products. Some 18 months ago he was quoted in the financial pages of The Irish Times as having decided not to proceed along the route of openness, transparency and accountability. At the time, I was somewhat taken aback and I remember very well, although he may not, cornering him in a corridor of Leinster House to inquire what had brought on this change of mind. In fairness, he said that the spin that had been put on the story was somewhat inaccurate in that he had not decided unilaterally to take this decision but was certainly exploring the possibility of agreeing to approaches from the insurance industry.

It brings to mind that wonderful quote made in a court 40 years ago about the insurance industry seeking this type of regulation: "They would, wouldn't they". This has been a problem which has faced many of us who have had reservations about credibility when it comes to the selling of pensions and insurance and financial products. I am pleased the Minister of State has not so much reversed his original decision as come down on the side of the consumer.

Accountability and openness are extremely important. If I caught the drift of what Senator Coghlan said, he seemed to be defending the insurance industry's record. I stand corrected if I misinterpreted his contribution. I know insurance companies have not been enthusiastic about, nor have they wildly embraced, this new dispensation proposed by the Minister of State in the area of detailing to the last degree exactly what is involved in terms of commission, growth rates and the plethora of complexities that surround any financial product, especially in the insurance and life assurance industry.

I welcome the initiative the Minister has taken and that, when the Bill becomes law, there will be a legal obligation on those involved in the selling of life and financial products and insurance generally, especially intermediaries, to be open and transparent. In other words, I hope the public will no longer buy a pig in a poke and be subjected to the small print Senator Cox referred to which is in most financial product literature. It is not surprising one's eyes glaze over when one is confronted with reams of sections, subsections, amendments and references to various legislation. If nothing else is to come from the Bill, I hope it places an obligation on those selling products to be clear and unambiguous. Those are the words the Minister used throughout his contribution. I do not understand why people selling a service should obfuscate to the extent that the financial and insurance industry has done to date, and they have done so because they have been allowed to get away with it.

I will give an example which I am not sure is covered directly by the Bill. We are all familiar with travel insurance. All of us who have travelled abroad have been obliged at some stage to take out travel insurance. I did so in good faith several years ago when I travelled to Seville in Spain for a football match with my wife. We stopped at a tourist office, both of us got out of the car and we were not inside the building a minute when my wife had to go back to the car to retrieve a document. She discovered that it had been broken into and that the case had been taken. She confronted the people involved and tried to get it from them but they overpowered her and left with it. I claimed under the existing contract that had been provided by the travel agency through a London broker. All the sections on one side of the page indicated that I was entitled to claim under the various sections. However, when I turned over to the other side of the page, I discovered that there was a huge volume of sections and exclusions. As they specifically applied to our predicament, the insurance company would have been happy to pay out what was, to it, a small amount of money but for us was a large amount, about £1,000 – we had lost cash as well as clothing – had either I or my wife been physically holding the bag when it was taken from us by the thieves. In that case the company would have been able to prove that we had made very effort to care for our belongings. I fought with the company and, as a result of tedious and interminable correspondence which lasted six months, it eventually paid me half the amount I sought without prejudice.

That is scandalous. I remember going through the rigmarole of contacting the Consumers Association of Ireland and the Minister of State's Department – he was not the Minister of State at the time, it was the early 1990s – and they all said there was nothing they could do. I am not aware that the position has changed to any great extent since. I understand it is still the case that those who give out insurance products get away with lists of exclusions. In other words, they give with one hand and take away with the other. I do not suggest that all intermediaries are like that but that is an example. As a result of that experience, I am severely prejudiced and jaundiced in my approach to any insurance company or those selling financial products. I hope this legislation will go some way to making me and others aware of what exactly we are getting into when we purchase and pay our money.

Section 22 amends section 25 of the existing legislation and sections 25B, 25C and 25D define the activities of a broker agent and tied agent. Where a premium is paid to an insurance intermediary in respect of a renewal of a policy, this is deemed to have been paid to the insurance undertaking. Am I right in assuming in the scenario I outlined at the beginning of my contribution regarding Mr. Byrne that, once the cheque was paid by his accountant, under the new law the insurance company or the financial products company selling the service must legally accept that a contract has been entered into?

A receipt must be given.

As regards the receipt, I know that UK based financial services companies give a cooling off period. When they send a person his or her contract of purchase, they also send another document stating that, under the law as it exists in the UK, that person has a period in which to reflect on whether they wish to proceed with the purchase. Will that obligation be included in Irish law or will it mean that, once a person has paid money, he or she must take what is given and that there is no cooling off period in which he or she might wish to change his or her mind or, having entered into the contract, he or she discovers that it is not exactly what he or she wants? Is there a possibility or has the Minister of State considered the possibility of a cooling off period, or is it in existing legislation?

It is already in the legislation.

I agree with Senator Cox about the terminology RAIPI. We used to blame those wonderfully gifted people in that section of Government who devised the Irish equivalent of English worded legislation. We all marvelled at their ability to devise the most wonderful names and terminology for new boards and agencies. We cannot blame them in this case. I presume it is short for restricted activity investment product intermediary but it is a bit of a mouthful. I agree with Senator Cox in what she said about usage. There is also the issue of them not being able to handle customers' cash but the Minister of State said he is examining this and that he may change it.

Section 26 relates to advertisements. This has long been a bone of contention. The Minister of State said that the supervisory authority may decide the type of information to be provided. I hope the Minister of State will take a firm hand and that he will be the iron hand in the velvet glove in this case. If there is one area of contention which causes pain and anguish, it is the manner in which those selling financial services promote their wares. Naturally they want to put the right spin on it and they will bend the statistics to prove their case, but there are many instances where a spin is put on existing statistics which, in the cold light of day, would leave open to question whether that company's performance is as good as it says it is. It is interesting that, in all the advertisements for financial services one sees, the largest print states that one should buy the product because it has increased by 100% over the past 12 months and the smallest print, which is usually at the bottom of the advertisement with a little asterisk, says the financial service, product, unit trust or insurance policy may go down as well as up. People do not always remember that. They all want to think that what they are buying will make them millionaires.

There is a certain greed factor involved, apart from those who are taking out pensions and life assurance for very laudable reasons to ensure they and their families will have sufficient to live on when they reach retirement age. However, those who are buying financial services for purely speculative purposes should also be protected. Why should somebody who wants to put their hard earned money into an investment, such as a life assurance policy, unit linked policy or endowment policy, not get the very best and be told in clear and unambiguous terms that what they are buying might decrease as well as increase in value?

The number of financial products on the market now makes it difficult for ordinary consumers. I hope the Minister of State will continue along the path he has hewn over the past two years and will continue to represent, not only the people of Galway East and, as a Minister, the people of Ireland, but also the consumers' best interests. He is dealing with very powerful forces, where money is king and where billions of pounds are involved.

A statistic which brought this home to me last week was the report that the amount of money invested in the Dublin financial services centre has now reached £175 billion, which has made Ireland one of the leading financial services centres in the world. That is the sort of money we are dealing with – it is Monopoly money. For example, the £40 billion Exchequer funding to be spent on the national development plan over the next six years is put in perspective when one considers that £175 billion is being transacted in a square mile in the docklands.

I commend the Minister of State on his innovative legislation. I hope it works, but I have no doubt he will return to the House if it does not.

I welcome the Minister of State and the Bill. Much of what has been said is very pertinent to what we are dealing with today, essentially the question of the relationship between big business in the form of a financial institution and the consumer and how we regulate that relationship. Too often in the past there was inadequate regulation in terms of supervision, accountability and transparency. The result has been that we have found ourselves in the past decade with a crisis of confidence in many of our financial institutions, in more ways than one.

The banks had to appear before the Committee of Public Accounts. They came out of that inquiry very poorly and had to pay back approximately £150 million which had been, to put it mildly, misappropriated through mechanisms which were inappropriate for good financial activities. The insurance industry has had its own problems, particularly in relation to the Taylor affair. We hear every day from the tribunals the problems with offshore accounts held by some of our major public figures in politics and industry. There have been allegations of our financial services centre being used as an offshore centre for other countries which were attempting to launder money.

There is also the question of whether financial institutions which avail of people's money, hold it in trust in a certain sense and use it for a particular purpose have social obligations. Is the service they provide customer oriented or purely profit oriented?

This question arises regularly in relation to the banks and post offices. The only reason there has not been a massive reduction in the number of post offices is that successive Governments could not face that politically. The powers that be would love to get rid of them and take away that social bond for communities, particularly in rural areas, but they have been unable to do it. However, the Bank of Ireland, for example, has declared that it is closing 60 of its 300 branches countrywide, despite the fact that only a few years ago all the financial institutions were competing with each other to set up branches.

For example, in Stoneybatter, one of the oldest communities in Dublin, the Irish Permanent, EBS and AIB have closed and the Bank of Ireland will close before the end of the month. There will not be a single financial institution left. This area is developing rapidly, with integrated area plans from the local authority and tax incentives from Government, yet all the financial institutions, in their wisdom, decided to deprive that community of their services.

There is a moral and ethical question which must be looked at, in terms of the customer service that is provided and whether everything is to be done at a distance, by the Internet, telephone or "hole-in-the-wall" machines. These matters must also be addressed in the broader sense of transparency, accountability and regulation. The Bill does not address those issues, but I want to bring to the Minister of State's attention that financial institutions should have to provide an accessible service to consumers.

The Minister of State outlined clearly the purpose of the Bill, which I welcome. Its purpose is to allocate regulatory responsibility to the Central Bank and to beef up the powers from the last century under the intermediaries Act, which is very welcome and desirable. Its purpose is also to enable the Minister make disclosure regulations for the provision of relevant information and to strengthen the system of notification by reinsurance undertakings and to update the penalties.

The insurance industry has operated in a self regulatory fashion for the past 100 years or more. The Minister is right to say it is no longer appropriate that self-regulation should be the norm, when we consider the huge sums of money involved. He said that £10.6 billion was dealt with in premia last year alone, which was an increase of 41% over the previous year. Quite clearly, that whole market is expanding at an enormous rate and employs in excess of 10,000 people. It involves a huge amount of money and a huge number of consumers are at risk if proper practices are not in place.

In those circumstances, although self-regulation has operated reasonably well, it cannot be the only way to regulate an industry of this size. I welcome the fact that the regulation will be done by an independent or outside body.

I have always had my doubts about the Central Bank. Its public statements on its supervisory and regulatory role in relation to the banks leave quite a lot to be desired. Its regulation seems to be quite slipshod, at arm's length and not very intrusive in nature. I hope that when the powers conferred by this legislation are in place there will be authorised persons with specific responsibility to regulate in an effective fashion. There should be regular reports to the Oireachtas on how the regulation is operating so we can see how effective it is. This is the first time the insurance industry will have an outside body regulating it.

This begs another question. There has been a row in the Dáil over the last couple of days with regard to the independent regulator for the financial sector. Are we putting the cart before the horse with this legislation? It is necessary, but I understood there was to be a regulator for the financial sector in place by now. The committee was set up in the spring of this year under the Attorney General and various reports and recommendations have come before us but there is still no sign of the legislation. The row in the other House is about whether the Minister for Finance or the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment will have responsibility for the legislation. As far as I can gather—

The Minister of State cleared the air this morning in that regard.

I am not sure that he has. He said, "On the question of a single financial regulator, discussions have taken place between officials of our Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and of the Department of Finance and the matter is currently being considered by the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance". That does not sound like clearing the air.

It was a little further on

I seek clarification on this. I am not deterred by the fact that Senator Coghlan raised the issue. The Minister of State continued, "When outstanding issues have been settled, the Minister for Finance and the Tánaiste will bring proposals to Government for detailed consideration and final decision". That indicates that it is as much in the air as it ever was. His next statement brings the matter further: "Following this Government's decision, it is expected that the legislation required for the establishment of the authority would be promoted by the Minister for Finance in due course". What does promote the legislation mean? Will the Minister introduce it? It appears the discussions have not been resolved and we do not know who will be responsible for the authority. Perhaps that is the reason for the delay. The Minister of State might clarify the matter in his concluding remarks.

It appears that this legislation will only shortly be in place when it will be superseded by an umbrella regulatory mechanism in the form of the single independent regulator who will be responsible for the financial sector. What is the raison d'être of that approach to legislation?

The question of accountability and transparency in terms of how the insurance industry conducts its business is moot from the point of view of the consumer. Senators Mooney, Coghlan and Cox referred to the problems caused for the consumer by the small print. It is everywhere in the industry. It would be hard to find a Seán or Mary citizen who could declare they understand the finer print of their insurance policies. Whether it is travel or life insurance, the details are difficult to understand. There is an inability in this and many other professional areas to provide clear, intelligible English. I do not know why this is so.

We have addressed the problem to some extent with regard to legislation brought before the House. Legislation appears to get more complicated by the day whereas legislation brought before Parliament in the last century was clear, simple and intelligible. It was equally effective. How is it that the parliamentary counsel cannot frame legislation in a clear, intelligible fashion? I give the Attorney General full marks for his decision to take on the responsibility, with all legislation that comes before the House, for producing a summary of its substantive elements. The provisions of the Bills will be in legislative form but the summary he will produce will be in clear intelligible English – and Irish, I hope – and will be acceptable in a court as the interpretation and intention of the legislation. It will come before the Houses to be nodded through.

I do not see why the Minister of State cannot ensure that every premium sold and every contract entered into, in the insurance and other areas of the financial services and other professional sectors, is accompanied by clear intelligible expositions of what the fine print involves. I am interested in the fine print because that is what catches people out. It is also what much of the industry falls back on.

I wish to refer briefly to the points made by the Professional Insurance Brokers' Association. The Minister of State will have a copy of them.

I have many copies.

Perhaps he will indicate what elements he is prepared to incorporate or to reject. One point refers to pure protection prod ucts and having to disclose them. Does he feel there is an advantage to the consumer in continuing to do that? There is no surrender value with these products. They are not of a financial value where people gain from the investment capacity in the product. They are simply protection policies.

Has the Minister of State agreed to the point in relation to the collection of insurance premia in cash? Many people in rural areas deal in cash. Approximately 30% of the rural population do not have a bank account and it will be harder for them to maintain bank accounts given the number of bank branches due to be closed throughout the country. That is all the more reason that it should be possible to make the premia transactions in cash.

How will the point in relation to independent advice and information be dealt with? Will any broker be able to give advice and information without substantial legislative imposition? There is also the question of whether the cap on commissions will continue, whether the Minister considers it reasonable for a broker to sell commissions and whether he believes brokers will be able to survive in the business with the reduced price. About 75% of premia are dealt with through brokerage both in the life and non-life sectors. Finally, there is the RAIPI, the strange term for the restricted activity investment product intermediary. Will the insurance broker suffice to cover the general use that is required there? Perhaps the Minister of State could dispense with that title.

The Bill is welcome and I will be pleased to see it in operation. I will be interested to see how the Central Bank will exercise its responsibilities. I would like to know who will deal with the single regulatory mechanisms and how and when they will be dealt with. I would like the Minister to look further down the road to future legislation and to have a fresh look at the role of the consumer in relation to other financial institutions to ensure the consumer is getting a good deal. When we license financial activities and financial bodies, what are the conditions under which we allow them to operate? Will we allow them to operate in a strictly investment and financial sense where they have the required amount of capital to ensure the consumer of their product will not be short changed if something happens and that they are bonded?

Also, will we ensure the required amount of service? Service is the area in which I believe we have the most difficulty and about which we get the most complaints. The financial institutions do not provide a service that is acceptable to the consumer. They provide a service that is in keeping with their financial and profit making requirements. Very often the consumer is short changed in terms of the quality and location of the service provided and in the manner in which it is provided. That is another area which requires a huge amount of examination and it can be regulated as well because financial services have responsibilities and it is our function as legislators to ensure those responsibilities are fulfilled.

Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil do ghach Seanadóir a ghlac páirt sa díospóireacht an-tábhachtach seo. Tá mé an-bhuíoch díobh agus tabharfaidh mé geallúint don Teach go ndéanfaidh mé staidéar ar na hóráidí agus na ceisteanna a d'ardaigh gach Seanadóir ins an Teach inniú.

I appreciate the contributions of Senators to this debate and I thank them sincerely for raising issues they consider may give cause for concern. Several of the proposals made are such that I will need to reflect further on their implications before coming to a final decision regarding their inclusion in this legislation.

Since its publication, I am pleased that there has been a broad welcome for this Bill from all quarters, including the industry, this House and Dáil Éireann. As might be expected, however, not all the provisions have been received with universal acclaim. In particular, reservations have been expressed by some sections of the insurance industry in relation to aspects of our proposals to introduce disclosure requirements and the manner in which disclosure will be made.

I recall for Senators that these proposals have come about as a result of a lack of adequate comprehensible information being available on a continual, clear and transparent basis to the consumer. This unsatisfactory situation left many vulnerable people at the mercy of unscrupulous individuals – not the industry but unscrupulous individuals within the industry – who engaged in the mis-selling and churning scandals that have come to light in recent years. As Minister for commerce with responsibility for the insurance industry, I have a two-fold responsibility. I must ensure there is a viable, sustainable and solidly resourced insurance industry available to consumers and to give a choice to consumers on product, on opportunity for investment and cover and protection for them. Along with that, I have a fundamental responsibility to ensure that these companies have the necessary liquidity to be able to pay the cover and premium and to underwrite the different claims made against them as well as ensuring the consumer has absolute information available to them so that they can make an informed choice.

As Minister for commerce, and during my time in office of a little over three years now, I have had to go out and defend decisions or, indeed, answer for decisions on situations which were distasteful to say the least and which did not arise during my time in office. Some of these cases went back five, ten, 15 or 20 years. They came to notice and we had to deal with them. My overriding commitment at all times was the integrity of the industry, protecting and sustaining the industry, sustaining financial services and ensuring con sumers had the choice, the protection and the cover and that the resources were available to both companies and the industry as required.

I am determined to ensure that insurance consumers will be provided with sufficient information to enable them to make rational and informed choices about their insurance requirements and that the resulting competition in the marketplace will encourage the promotion of better products at lower cost – more products, greater competition and lower cost of investment in the premia. In this regard, I am indebted to the Society of Actuaries in Ireland for its assistance in the presentation of the relevant facts and figures for insurance consumers in a simple and understandable manner that will form an integral part of the regulations to be made under this legislation.

We also have a professional in-house actuary in our Department. He is an outstanding man who has worked with the team of outstanding people in our insurance division. They have worked assiduously on this to ensure that the fairest, clearest, sensible, practical and simplest system of disclosure possible is available in the future.

I am encouraged to note that a number of undertakings have already taken the initiative themselves to improve the level and quality of information which they provide for their customers, no doubt as a result of the publicity surrounding the preparation of this Bill. I very much welcome this trend. The insurance industry, which is a large employer in this State and an essential element of Ireland's social fabric, can only benefit from such developments. I, as a legislator and citizen of this country, am very proud of the industry which has done an outstanding job about which there is no doubt.

I turn to a number of the points raised by Senators. Senator Coghlan referred to various parts of the legislation and talked about the threat of job losses as a result of disclosure, that is, that our legislation may be heavy handed. The effect of this Bill is to ensure that insurance intermediaries are to be authorised and supervised by the Central Bank of Ireland instead of the present situation where they are subject to a regime of self-regulation. Unfortunately, that situation has proved totally inadequate from the consumers point of view. Every effort has been made to ensure the supervisory regime matches the exposure of the consumer.

An effective regime will allow consumers to invest with confidence thus increasing business for brokers and insurers across the board. I think Senator Costello put his finger on it when he talked about the figures and the huge growth, and Senator Cox said the same earlier. There has been huge growth in the industry. As we grow the economy, there are greater resources to be invested and reinvested and there is greater opportunity and, consequently, financial services, particularly the insurance industry, will grow commensurate with the way the economy grows. We are very optimistic about the next 25 years of growth in this country and I am confident the insurance industry will continue to grow along with our economy.

Senators Coghlan, Cox, Mooney and Costello all referred to the title RAIPI. It was originally introduced by the Department of Finance in an Act and was carried on in the Investment Intermediaries Act and the Insurance (Investor Compensation) Act. Our attention has been drawn to the sensitivities about this issue and, indeed, I would like to resolve it. We are not wedded to this title, even though it has been in operation for almost six years since the Investment Intermediaries Act was passed. There is no objection on our side to consulting with the industry to find a different title. Our only concern would be that in any alternative title, the message would be clearly conveyed to the consumer that its activities are restricted. There is a difference; they have a different responsibility and the parameters are much tighter. We have to make sure that the unsuspecting consumer walking in to deal with these people knows exactly the parameters within which they must operate.

Given the time scale I suggest consideration of a change of title should be given more time. It can be addressed in legislation brought forward by the Minister for Finance at any time in the future, including the SFR, the forthcoming Finance Bill after we pass this budget and the Finance Bill after we pass the budget of 2002.

I assure the Members of the House, for whom I have the utmost regard, and the public that the Government has no intention of worrying them about the future of this initiative. The Government will continue in office doing a good job and will only ask for a verdict from the electorate when it is constitutionally necessary.

Senator Coghlan and other Senators referred to discontinuance notices. I understand their concerns. Discontinuance of appointments may occur for ordinary reasons. Notices can give the wrong impression of the intermediary, but that is like politics. The perception is often not the reality, whether it concerns legislation, the individual or the misrepresentation of a statement made by a Member of either House or by a politician at any level.

However, intermediaries may themselves publish notices of discontinuance, explaining the innocuous reasons for it if they so choose. On the other hand, the purpose of the requirement to publish is to inform the public and the consumers. Providing such information to consumers is of overriding importance. It ensures that others may not exploit any vacuum in any area of activity, be it within the insurance industry or in any functional or geographical area.

Senator Cox referred to capping commissions and commission payments. The reasons for disclosure of commission payments is to enable the consumer make a rational choice between products. There is no reason the consumer should be deprived of this information because of the prod uct bought. Unfortunately, there have been instances in the past where advice to consumers has been influenced by the remuneration received by the intermediary. Purchasing insurance, especially life insurance, is not like purchasing a car. In the case of insurance and assurance one may have to wait 20 years to see the real product and to benefit from it.

We agree with the Minister of State and applaud his initiative.

I know the Senator agrees with me. I only make the point for the purposes of clarity. Senator Cox also referred to equivalence. I have every confidence in the Society of Actuaries and the commitment of its members to achieve equivalence of disclosure. I was the first Minister of State with responsibility for commerce to address all the insurance AGMs. I have addressed many functions and in every case have made it clear what I want to achieve, which is equivalence through a level playing field for both the insurance and financial services industry and all consumers.

Senator Cox referred to spurious claims payments by insurance. It is very frustrating. I am especially frustrated with situations where the insured, having made a premium payment, finds that a settlement for a claim against him is reached without prior consultation. That is wrong. The insured has the right to be consulted. We are examining ways of dealing with personal injury compensation and have considered ways of including it in this legislation. It is very difficult.

However, we are dealing with personal injury compensation. A number of professional groups and volunteers have considered the issue and a number of reports have been produced. I am considering a report in consultation with my officials and I hope, as soon as possible, to bring proposals to Government that will address some of the issues raised by Senator Cox.

In a wide ranging speech Senator Mooney referred to the illustrious Mr. Gay Byrne. Mr. Byrne gave power of attorney to his solicitor. This legislation cannot prevent this from happening, but where a consumer gives money to an intermediary they will get it back either from the intermediary's capital or from the financial institutions standing behind the intermediary. This, of course, depends on the status of the intermediary. Mr. Byrne gave absolute power to this wonderful person whom he trusted.

I do not think he thought he was so wonderful.

It would appear that no receipts were issued. Trust was betrayed and the rest is history. I will not elaborate because it is both personal and sad and one of the parties is now deceased.

As Minister of State with responsibility for commerce, as a legislator and a citizen I value and understand the contribution of the insurance industry and those who sell its products. I accept that independent brokers make an invaluable contribution to Ireland, both urban and rural, especially in rural areas where big financial services are not located and where I am proud to live.

However, the purpose of the Bill is to protect the consumer. By empowering the consumer we will encourage the better working of the market. As Senator Cox has said, consumer protection legislation here is relatively new and could not be regarded as excessively onerous. We have always tried to strike a balance that is best for society and the citizen.

We have also tried to strike a balance between the parameters, exigencies and criteria laid down by the EU Commission in terms of what we consider to be good for Ireland. Sometimes we are able to be slightly ahead of the European situation. When Europe introduces new directives and examines our legislation what we have done is often commended and an indication given that no changes are required. It would be good if we could achieve that in this area. It would ease the pressure on insurance intermediaries and others having to worry about European legislation in the immediate future. Over time more directives will be issued which will affect their situation. We must respond to that, as in all aspects of our lives.

Senator Costello referred to the single financial regulator. He appears to be worried that we will not proceed with this. The group appointed by the Government to examine the implementation of its decision to establish a single regulatory authority for financial services reported in May of last year. It produced a lengthy report and we compliment the chairman, Mr. McDowell, now the Attorney General.

Since then, the Minister for Finance has been working with my colleague, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to develop a proposal for Government that will provide a sound basis for the regulation of the financial services sector and which will enjoy the confidence of all concerned. Discussions have taken place at official level between officials from both Departments and the two Ministers are constantly consulting on these issues. As soon as they have finalised their consideration of the various issues we will bring our proposals to Government for approval.

I thought that is what the Minister of State said.

I want to assure the House again. This is a very complex matter. This legislation transfers responsibility to the Central Bank to be the regulatory authority to deal with the insurance industry and with insurance intermediaries. Hitherto there has been part self-regulation, part regulation by the Central Bank and the involvement of various bodies. We are now streamlining that. It is another chapter in financial regulation. It will make it much easier to achieve a SFR in the future.

Senator Coghlan confirmed this is a very complex area. He made a strong case for his choice as SFR. Our minds are still open. We await the conclusions of the Ministers and officials. It will entail a big and complex decision about how the financial services industry is to be regulated.

Ireland is an island nation with a very open economy. There is a huge opportunity to capitalise on the strength and integrity of the financial services. We must ensure that we get it right. Festina lente is always the better motto when big decisions are to be made.

In October 1997 I signalled that I would introduce this Bill. Senator Mooney referred to an article that contained derogatory comments about me to the effect that I had shied away from it. I was compared to innocuous things, to which I will not refer. Everybody knew this legislation was imminent. We consulted widely and I hope that, ultimately, the collective wisdom of the Legislature, the industry and the people will produce the proper kind of legislation that will serve the country well. The same will happen with the SFR. Following the Government's final decision on this matter, the necessary legislation required for the establishment of the authority will be introduced by the Minister for Finance.

That is what I thought the Minister of State said.

Senator Coghlan referred to the effectiveness of the legislation. It will be effective, whatever the regulatory environment. Whether legislation is administered by the Central Bank or a new single regulator, it will make no difference to its substance. Any legislation introduced, such as this Bill, will be included in the legislation covering the SFR. Senators Coghlan and Cox referred to the disclosure pertaining to protection products and the right of the consumer to information to avoid creating loopholes. Earlier I referred to the cap on commissions. I abolished that and again I was criticised. I felt it was better to abolish the cap on commissions and have disclosure rather than provide a cap and have a situation where the industry could find other ways of getting around it. I felt that would provide a more level playing field. By and large the people in the industry are pleased with that. It was the best way to proceed. The European Union would not be impressed by the imposition of a cap on commissions. The European Union wanted competition and, as Senator Cox said, we have much for which to be grateful to the Union. It has created competition and the systems it introduced have ensured there is competition here. All this is another reason for disclosure.

There is a great deal of pressure on me to exempt protection products. I would relish the ability to say in this House that I could do that. I will give this further consideration. I must be sure before I take a final decision that if I exempt protection products, little gifts would not be given for the number of protection products a person sells because there was non-disclosure. I would need to be sure that there would not be an additional bonus for pushing protection products and that the bonuses for performing in other areas would be included with the protection products. I have not been convinced yet that such a situation would not prevail. The matter must receive more consideration by me and my officials before I could come to a conclusion on it. Whatever we decide, we want to make sure it is sustainable, it will stand the test of time and will be equitable for the consumer and fair to the industry.

Since the Bill was published in December last, and during its consideration by the Dáil and now by this House, I and my officials have continued to consult with the insurance industry and the various other interests, including the Central Bank, regarding its contents. In addition we have had valuable contributions from all sides of the House during the passage of the Bill through the Dáil and again here today. Arising from these consultations, a number of issues have been resolved by amendments tabled by me on Committee Stage and Report Stage in the Dáil.

I thank the Members of this House for their contributions. I will reflect on all the points raised. My mind is always open because I have no monopoly on wisdom. Legislation must embrace the totality of the collective wisdom of the Members of the Houses of Parliament elected by the people. If we operate on that basis, I am confident we will get it right at all times. I will, therefore, reflect on all the points raised and, as I have signalled, I will bring forward amendments on Committee Stage, notably to permit cash handling by restrictive activity investment product intermediaries. I will also consider the position concerning travel agents and tour operators and report to this House on the issue on Committee Stage. I am satisfied that the adoption of these amendments by the House will benefit the overall quality and effectiveness of the Bill.

I want to record my deep appreciation of the insurance industry, both the intermediaries and the industry itself, for the constructive and co-operative manner in which they have approached the development of the Bill. As a group, they have recognised the need for an improved regulatory regime as well as the various other shortcomings of the industry in so far as consumer information and protection are concerned. As a result of this co-ordinated and co-operative approach, I am convinced that this legislation will enhance the standing of the insurance industry in the eyes of the public and will help to repair a reputation somewhat tarnished by a small number of devious operators in recent years.

I thank you, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, the staff and all the Members who spoke today as well as my excellent officials for the co-operation afforded to me in this matter. I look forward to returning to conclude the business on Committee and Report Stages as soon as the House orders same.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 8 November 2000.
Sitting suspended at 1.25 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.
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